Doom 3 Gets Reviews, Piracy Questions, Exultation 1319
Yeti Von Baseball writes "Now that Doom 3 has officially shipped to stores, Computer Gaming World just posted its Doom 3 review - they also posted about 100 or so new screens." Elsewhere, GameSpy has an in-progress weblog and first-look impressions on the "claustrophobic corridors" of the game, Telefragged posted one of the first reviews, praising "a grand slam of action, story, atmosphere, and pure terror", the BBC reports on how "potential sales could be hit by the extent of online piracy of the game", and Time Magazine has a feature on Doom 3 and id.
Odd Ratings (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Odd Ratings (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets talk about Jon Carmack. (Score:5, Funny)
Now stop for a moment and think, What would have happened if Albert Einstein had worked creating amazing pinball games instead of creating the theory of relativity? Humanity would suffer! Jon carmack is unfortunately doing JUST THIS, using his gifts at computer coding to create games instead of furthering the knowledge of humanity. Carmack could have been working for NASA or the US military, but instead he simply sits around coding violent computer games.
Is this a waste of a special and rare talent? Sadly, the answer is yes.
Unfortunately, it doesn't stop there. Not only is Jon carmack not contributing to society, he is causing it's downfall. What was the main reason for the mass murder of dozens of people in columbine? Doom. It's always the same story: Troubled youth plays doom or quake, he arms himself to the teeth, he kills his classmates. This has happened hundreds of times in the US alone. Carmack is not only wasting his talents and intelligence; he is single-handedly causing the deaths of many young men and women. How does he sleep at night?
Carmack is a classic example of a very talented and intelligent human being that is bent on total world destruction. Incredibly, he has made millions of dollars getting people hooked on psychotic games where they compete on the internet to see who can dismember the most people. I believe there is something morally wrong when millions of people have computerized murder fantasies, and we have Jon Carmack to thank. Carmack has used his superior intellect to create mayhem in society. Many people play games such as quake so much that their minds are permanently warped. A cousin of mine has been in therapy for 6 months after he lost a 'death match' and became catatonic.
It is unfortunate that most people do not realize how much this man has damaged all the things we have worked hard for in America. Jon has wasted his intelligence, caused the deaths of innocent children, and warped this country forever. To top it off, he got rich in the process and is revered by millions of computer users worldwide. Perhaps one day the US government will see the light and confine Jon Carmack somewhere with no computers so he can no longer use his intelligence to wreak havoc on society.
Re:Lets talk about Jon Carmack. (Score:4, Insightful)
The previous poster made no distinction between a Software Engineer and a programmer. Most organizations don't. Usually the programmer and the Software Engineer are the same person.
The idea that a program can be fully designed before a line of code has been written is called the "waterfall" methodology. Though this approach is commonly seen as ideal, it really doesn't work. In fact, it's usually cited as a major reason projects fail. During the implementation phase, serious design problems will emerge and need to be addressed. The iterative approach of the RUP, or the more organic designs of XP tend to work much better IMHO.
I don't mean to scorn plumbers. That's a difficult job as well, and certainly requires expertise and ability. I think it takes more expertise to do my job, but that's just my opinion.
I bought my copy today (Score:5, Informative)
amd athlon xp 2400+
512mb ddr 400
7200rpm hard drive
nvidia geforce 4 ti 4400 (128mb)
it doesn't detect my surround sound setup (sb live! with klipsch pro media 4.1's)
it runs at medium detail @ 640x480 and gets pretty choppy in places...
my only complaint so far is that it's so dark that even the flashlight doesn't even really let you see much (i'm trying not to turn my brightness up but it seems i may have to so i don't keep running into guard rails and such)...
overall though.. i think the intro was a bit long.. i wanna kill stuff.. and kill it i shall... after the 15-20 minute introduction
Get rid of all ambient light (Score:4, Informative)
my only complaint so far is that it's so dark that even the flashlight doesn't even really let you see much (i'm trying not to turn my brightness up but it seems i may have to so i don't keep running into guard rails and such)...
People used to say the same thing about Quake 1. However, if you got rid of all ambient light and played, you could see everything you were supposed to and without the washed out-ness that comes from upping your gamma too far.
Gamma/brightness won't help (Score:4, Interesting)
In layman's terms, what they have done is set black 0,0,0 as absolute darkenss, and then set anything in shadow to that same colour. So unless something is actually lit up by a proper light source, YOU WON'T SEE IT even if you bump your brightness etc to max. That's the beauty of using a real lighting engine instead of fake lighting as every other game before it has done. Now you NEED to use the flashlight to get around. Yes, it freaks you out when a creature jumps out at you and you need to fumble for your shotgun etc. But that's the point! It's a fear factor game. Enjoy it for what it is, don't try to game the system (which you can't do anyway).
Re:Get rid of all ambient light (Score:4, Funny)
Learn to type.
It also restricts you to playing the game at night-time, which is also needed for sleeping. This cuts out your weekend play.
Close the blinds.
Re:I bought my copy today (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I bought my copy today (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I bought my copy today (Score:5, Funny)
Re:MOD PARENT FUNNY/INSIGHTFUL (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I bought my copy today (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I bought my copy today (Score:5, Informative)
XP1900, GF 4 4200 64MB(this hurts), 512MB(could use 768 or a Gig for Doom 3)
Anyway on your rig that seems to be par for the course although I've seen some people say that 800x600 at medium is playable with that spec. You honestly probably won't see that big a hit playing a notch higher resolution wise. On my system once I'm in a room its not too bad but running through doorways causes a huge bit a chop and when any big action scene starts it chops a little as well. After playing with this setup for so long its really is surprising that I'm playing at 640x480 low. I think the last time I played a fps at such a low resolution was like 5 years ago.
One thing you can try is setting setting image_cacheMegs "32" to "96" or higher in the file DoomConfig.cfg. Some people are reporting that is helping smooth things out. YMMV
btw anyone who says this game sucks or isn't scary hasn't played at night in a dark room with headphones on. Awesome sound effects.
Doom ]I[ too dark: a solution (Score:4, Informative)
I had the same problem, tried setting brightness to max in options, but the game was still much too dark to enjoy. Here is the real solution:
The game has 0-2 gamma levels, level 1 is standard. Open the Console (CTRL+ALT+~) and type in r_gamma 1.5. Now the game is bright enough to play!
Buy Directly From Developer (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm going to buy Doom3 from id directly at the id Store [idsoftware.com]. When there's a game I really get a lot out of (or plan to in this case), I try to buy directly from the developer to give them as big a cut of the pie as I can. They get full SRP instead of what's left from the middle man.
My way of thanking companies that still create good titles.
Re:Buy Directly From Developer (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Buy Directly From Developer (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand, strong retail sales can make an impression on the publisher, distributor, wholesalers, and retailers, which may make it easier to secure an advance on the next title. That said, id Software isn't exactly strapped for cash or clout, so I don't think they care where you buy Doom 3.
telefragged - technology: 93% (Score:5, Insightful)
Most sites have (wisely) abandonned such an approach and rather go with a 1-5 scale or A,B,C,D,E ratings (with +/-).
I mean come on...
100 Doom III Screenshots? (Score:5, Funny)
Come on, linking to 100 screenshots of Doom III in a slashdot blurb? That's just cruel.
Re:100 Doom III Screenshots? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:100 Doom III Screenshots? (Score:5, Funny)
LS
Release dates (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Release dates (Score:4, Insightful)
I joined the torrent when I found out this morning that the 13th August release date was true and not just a terrible rumour.
Experiences thus far: (Score:5, Informative)
XP 2600
Ati Rad 9800 Pro
2 x WD Raptor striped raid
1GB PC3200 Corsair
Can run smooth on High settings at 800x600, AA disabled. Game looks fantastic
------
XP 2000
Geforce FX 5200
80GB 2mb buffer maxtor
512MB PC2700 Generic
Barely runs at 640x480. Framerates are in the 10-20 range. Would not recommend purchasing if you have similar specs. Upgrading the CPU or video card would have the largest impact.
------------
P4 2.4Ghz B
ATI Radeon 9500
512MB PC2100
2 x 80GB Maxtor Striped RAID
Runs smooth on Medium settings at 640x480, or Low at 800x600. Definitely playable.
-----------
Haven't tried the 4th yet, but I don't hold much hope. It's an XP 1600 w/ GF4 Ti4200.
Low Price? (Score:5, Interesting)
"Despite the relatively low price of PC games, many gamers are still choosing to resort to piracy rather than pay for legitimate boxed copies," said Matt Pierce, publisher of the computer games magazine, PC Gamer.
Relatively low price? Relative to what? A movie? A CD? A car? Amazon [amazon.com] has it for 54.99. That is anywhere from 25% to 50% of the cost of a brand new console, depending on the platform (and yes, I know it is a PC game). I'm really curious as to what world he is living in that could justify that price as "relatively low".
Look again (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's not forget that these consoles were sold *below* cost with the intention of making money on the games.
I'm not saying $55 isn't a lot for a video game, but comparing it to the price of 4-year-old consoles that were sold at a loss doesn't prove anything. What you should compare it to is console titles, because console titles are supposed to make up the loss on the consoles. OTOH, PC titles have no need to make up said loss, so why are they getting just as high as the console titles?
UT2004 was a nice exception, costing me only $25.
-Dan
Re:Look again (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Low Price? (Score:4, Interesting)
- a dozen roses
- four hours of legally purchased music
- dinner for one at Morton's
- 2% ownership of a RealDoll
- a leatherman
- two tanks of gas
- a copy of the complete far side
- the lord of the rings trilogy on dvd
- three cans of baby formula
- one bad beat playing 5/10 texas holdem
- tickets to the Celine Dion show in Vegas
- a bartab for two at a trendy bar
- a nail gun
- a round of golf
- a PC that is capable of running doom 3
The world he is living in is called the real world. Maybe someday you'll escape your mom's basement and join us.Will the monsters fight? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you could get a monster to shoot at you, and the shot hit a second monster, the second monster would get angry and turn towards the first and start attacking it. The the first would turn towards the second and attack, and they would ignore you and just beat on each other until one was dead. (This only worked for different types of monsters; if a grunt shot another grunt, they wouldn't fight. In fact, I don't believe that same-type monsters could even damage each other at all.)
The new game, with its insane system requirements, will only have a handful of monsters at a time (about three, if I understood the Telefragged review correctly). Still, it would be cool if you could sometimes get them to start fighting each other.
steveha
Re:Will the monsters fight? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Will the monsters fight? (Score:5, Informative)
Species that shoot bullets can injure, and get into fighst with, any monster in the game.
Species that use missile attacks can only injure, and therefore get in fights with, members of other species.
That is to say that a Grunt can get into a fight with any other monster, including another grunt. While an Imp can only get into fights with any monster that is NOT an Imp.
There are four exceptions to this:
Very disappointed (Score:5, Interesting)
And the game does two very annoying things; they like to surprise you with monsters appearing out of nowhere, which has always bugged me, and they like to just turn out all the lights so you can't see anything and just start throwing monsters at you. How is firing blindly in the dark while some monster that can somehow see perfectly is whittling down your health with a machine-gun fun? Yes it is scary, but not in a good way.
Please someone tell me it gets better, because right now I am unsure if I am ever going to bother to play any more and instead go load up one of the more interesting recent FPS games like Farcry or Call Of Duty.
Re:Very disappointed (Score:5, Funny)
Now if you'll just post contact information, I'll happily take this terrible game off your hands for .. say .. $10? Your hands deserve better.
I mean, it's a *really* crappy game.
Tweak Settings (Score:5, Informative)
1)In game bring down the console (ctrl alt ~)
2)r_gamma 1.3 - The default is 1, try a range from 1.2-1.4, some have said to go as high as 1.8 but that is way too bright and takes away from the atmosphere imho.
3)r_brightness 1.5 - Again the default is 1, try a range up 1.8 to what looks best for you.
4) Turn off AA, turn on vsync on.
To boost performance try this!
In your DOOM 3 directory, find "DoomConfig.cfg" (x:\Program Files\Doom 3\base). Open DoomConfig.cfg in Notepad.
Find the line:
seta image_cacheMegs "XX"
Where XX is try increasing this value in according to how much ram you have. I have 1 GB of ram, and set it to 256, HUGE boost in framerate, game runs a lot smoother now. Try these values: 32, 96, 128, 256.
Whuzzaahh!! (Score:5, Informative)
Store opened at 10:00, saw a bunch of people waiting for it to open, thought they all would be in line for the game. Felt like an old geek after realizing I was the only one to pick the game up. Felt real old waiting at the counter to pay for it.
Read reviews/previews/salivate over old screenshots all day. Didnt feel a bit guilty at getting paid for nothing.
Reached home, ignored wife completely, popped CD's in, installed, breathless now.
Fired it up on my not so humble box, encountering game freezes during cut screens/ loading textures etc.
Trying to pick up my jaw from the floor ever since.
Game rocks..its dark, deliciously creepy, I have a weak heart and I dont think I will play at night (also slightly considerate towards neighbours).
After two hours of getting creeped out, eaten alive, ass kicked, munched on. pulled down the ever so trusty in-game commandline, typed in the words:
spawn monster_boss_cyberdemon
Holy mother of God! Is that...omg!!...
Re:Whuzzaahh!! (Score:5, Funny)
spawn monster_boss_cyberdemon
Holy mother of God! Is that...omg!!...
Yes, that is Bill Gates' head in a jar.
Doom 3 is crap (Spoilers). Go play Far Cry (Score:5, Interesting)
If what you want in a game is basically Doom with shiny surfaces, then you're fine. If you want something new, or even something with a refreshing twist, then aside from the rendering engine you're basically out of luck.
The game is well produced. The voice acting is good. The facial animation is decent. The textures are all very detailed, but you know, the 'fun' bottleneck is no longer in the graphics. Its in the gameplay.
So the big news is the latest rendering engine from Id, the people who brought us the first widely released FPS. Well, I'm sorry to say that from what I've seen the rendering engine is about on par with the Source (Half Life 2), Crytek (Far Cry) and Unreal 3 (upcoming America's Army and Unreal releases) engines. There are probably purists out there that will say I'm insane for this and that Doom 3 does X that none of those others do, or do as well. Well, if I don't notice it when I'm playing it doesn't really matter does it? The most impressive things I saw were the distortions glass caused in anything beyond the glass, and the 'heat distortion' you could see in items that were extremely hot. The glass distortion was interesting for about 5 seconds the first time I saw it, and then distracting the rest of the time. The heat haze was interesting in one level, and almost completely obscured with smoke effects the rest of the time. Yes, the lighting was very nice, but since its mostly used to create vast areas of darkness to 'freak you out', I began to hate the lighting.
Gameplay was tedious. If you're a huge fan of haunted houses, maybe this will appeal. If you're not, this is just going to drive home why you typically don't see haunted houses year round. It seems like every corridor is filled with false panels. It also seems like hell's minions have absolutely nothing better to do than to go wait behind one of those panels, wait for you to walk past and then pop out behind you. This kind of mechanism should be used at most once or twice in a game. Here it shows up every 5 minutes or so.
Level design is repetitive. Carmack talks about how many levels use up to half a gig of textures. Yet the game comes on 3 CDs. Well the easy explanation for this is that the game has about 4 levels. It has the mars base level repeated ad naseum, the underground caverns level (seen for about 2 levels), Hell (seen in one level and basically the end game) and mars base being overrun by hell (1 level) which really isn't original at all but uses a mixture of textures and design from previous levels. All in all, there are maybe 2 really 'Wow' moments when you're looking around you. This isn't bad, except that the rest of the time, for me anyway, it wasn't so much a lack of 'Wow' but a 'Oh god not this again' feeling.
Sound is well used in the game, but then its only used to try to freak you out.
Overall this is the problem. THe game wants to freak you out. And not just a couple of really good scares, but rather it wants you constantly edgy and terrefied. This isn't really what I want in a game, or at least not what I want the entire game to be about. Think about the most suspenseful movie you've ever watched. Now think about the most suspensful 5 minutes of that movie. Now watch that 5 minutes over and over again. Either you're going to get bored or you're going to need
Doom 3 cliché-scary. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd mod you up if I hadn't wanted to post.
The ID crew should load up Thief 3 and play "The Cradle". "The Cradle" is scary but interesting. Instead of a never ending stream of monsters, you have a limited amount, and they're not actually all out to get you per default. You can engage, or you can sneak past. One option more than in Doom 3 (as far as I can tell)
"The Cradle" is scary because you'll imagine the worst possible thing happening all the time, and even though the worst possible thing that you imagine doesn't happen, the game use sound, visual and story-telling to keep you on your toes throughout.
In Doom 3, the worst possible thing pretty much happens every turn. If there's a ledge with an item on it, the ledge will fall as you walk on it. If you're backing into a dark corner, there will be a zombie waiting for you This is a much less rewarding experience overall.
Take the place where you find the first shotgun. ID's design: Put a piece of ammo/armor on the floor off the given path. Player jumps over rail the grab item, floor falls out, player ends up in dark room with three/four zombies attacking.
I would probably have designed it thus for a first try: .. player jumps over rail to grab item, floor falls out revealing dark room, player+floor ends up falling on zombie, killing it (can use humor here). Lessons learned: 1) Be careful where you walk. 2) Dangerous creatures are lurking for you in the darkness. 3) They can be killed by dropping heavy things in their heads.
Both approaches would teach the player that exploration is rewarded and that it can be dangerous, one just isn't so obvious about it.
Doom 3 just made me realize how good a game Thief really is. Way underrated.
At least in Thief the lighting made sense most of the time.
Re:I agreed with you... (Score:4, Interesting)
Vehicles (land and water). A sniper rifle. Wide open maps where vehicles and sniper rifles come in handy. Good multiplayer modes. Diverse level design. Indoor and outdoor regions (sorry, 30 seconds in some crater on mars going from airlock a to airlock b while suffering apoxia doesn't count).
What Far Cry doesn't have is:
The same level over and over again. A need for monsters to CONSTANTLY pop out of hidden rooms. A fixation with hell imagery that most of us grew out of after junior high.
What bizarre alternate world are you living in? The grunts in Doom 3 ran directly into my shotgun all the time. Even the ones armed with guns themselves. And in Far Cry, I'd frequently curse the AI enemies for not showing themselves long enough for me to take a shot. Since the AI in Far Cry can auto balance maybe they were particularly stupid just for you. No offense.
Too much creep, to little gameplay. (Score:4, Interesting)
After about 6 hours of playing I was ready to smash something good as my blood at that point was pure adrenaline; needless to say, I was really REALLY agitated. Thank god I didn't pay out the ass for those 6 shitty hours of playtime, hence the reason I pirate before I buy. This game is not for your seasoned FPS player but more for the average guy who doesn't spend a lot of time playing games who likes to get freaked out at stuff and then shoot it.
Movie-like mental state changing special effects do NOT belong in videogames; whereas a movie is 2 or 3 hours, a game is 40 or 50, and if you ask any psychiatrist, it isn't healthy to give someone that much of a dose, especially if they're going to play it 500 or 1000 hours. You turn into me.
Frankly, I really was hoping they'd be able to throw in some decent gameplay and actually add something to the FPS market besides an engine that can deliver pretty graphics and a mix n' match version of doom and then mask that with pretty graphics and mind altering "scene" setting sounds. I'll hope that they'll salvage the multiplayer so modders can do their thing and make some really kickass mods. It'd be really kewl to see natural selection on this engine, or when HL2 comes out on that one, since it'd compliment it so nicely. Then again, I won't have to deal with steam if I'm on doom3.
My letter to my boss (Score:5, Funny)
With the release of Doom3 today, I am taking two weeks of vacation effective immediately. I will not be reachable by direct email, cell phone or smoke signals. Should you feel the need to contact me, please leave a message and I will respond when I stop playing the game because I started hallucinating.
It make take me a while to respond as I expect my fingers to have fallen off by that point. Also, I will most likely be unintelligeable so be prepared not to understand a word I say. After two weeks, please alert all my co-workers to my return. They will need to prepare for my two weeks of body odor as well as purchase very dark sunglasses. I expect I will be very pale by then, perhaps blindingly pale.
Sincerely,
Your local Space Marine.
Re:My letter to my boss (Score:5, Funny)
Have a good vacation.
Boss.
Got it here in New Zealand (Score:4, Interesting)
Even worse, on my Hitachi 17" LCD screen, it was so dark I could not see what I was doing - literally. There's no gamma correction (only brightness), and the gamma correction that you can use from the ATI control panel seems to be over-ridden by Doom 3. Also, the ATI keys you can in theory use to change gamma in-game (I tried alt-f1, alt-f2), were also ignored.
So I took the game home to my gaming rig. P4, 2.8Ghz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9700, 19" CRT, Hercules GameTheater XP surround sound. It reproducibly crashed only 2 minutes into the game. My ATI drivers were about 6 weeks old which I hoped would be late enough - but they weren't. Updated the drivers and I was away, no problems.
The game was perfectly playable at 800x600, including 2x anti-aliasing. The gamma was also not a problem (it just had the right balance, I didn't need to adjust anything). But the surround sound was broken; I heard only very, very feint noises from the rear speakers (perhaps 1/10th volume of front speakers?) and even then it seemed to be almost an echo of the front speakers, rather than positional audio. Very disappointed.
And the game play ? Well, the previous paragraphs are fact, this one is just my take. Honestly, I felt like I was playing the original half life, with a twist of System Shock. The 'plot' is just like half life, so is the atmosphere. It just not, well, as much *fun* as I was hoping :-( Sure, graphically it is superb. And it *is* well done, don't get me wrong. It's just that it's all been done before, just not with the same graphics.
Overall, I'd give it an 8 out of 10. 10 for gfx, but marked down for originality. I should add the caveat that I've only played about 2 1/2 hours of the game - but frankly I would rather be playing Far Cry.
So, (Score:5, Insightful)
I tried running it under WineX (Cedega) and it just went into an infinite loop loading. I tried installing win2k on a partition to run it, and the installer BSoD'ed. Too afraid to try it on my laptop.
Boring after the initial graphics WOW factor... (Score:4, Insightful)
The game gets stale rather quickly. The monsters appearing out of nowhere are annoying. Poof! There's a monster. BANG! Poof! Another monster. BANG BANG! BTW, how many dead zombies can fit in a maintenance closet anyways... Although, the chubby bastards with the rocket launchers for arms were pretty cool.
Outside of the lackluster gameplay, the graphics are F***ing awesome. The detail and lighting effects on everything are incredible (P4 2.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, ATI 9800 XT at 1280x1024 with AA). Everything looked on par with the Final Fantasy film graphics. Heat sources ripple the air and explosions ripple the air with concussions. The light from your plasma gun turns objects in front of it blue, etc... Interactivity with the environment is okay as well (objects can be shoved and positioned)
The AI is fairly decent with the gun toting SOBs using cover and ducking when you fire at them (at least on the VETERAN setting)
The $50+ I paid for it - not worth it - $30 maybe... I feel sorry for all those teens who plunk down their hard earned funds and realize the mistake too late...
Far Cry was much more interesting and better in game play value. Hopefully, the modders will make up some excellent improvements to the game and everyone can enjoy it even more. Hopefully, multiplayer will be better...
Where's my Beavertooth Chainsaw?
http://www.martianbuddy.com (Wonder how many hits this site got before the official release)
An Underdicovered Market? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not just because the Mac version hasn't been released, but because my system works fine for 99% of the tasks I need it to, and probably will continue to for some time. I've upgraded the graphics card already (when UT2003 was released), and I'll probably add dual 1.3ghz G4s at some point. Even then, Doom will probably still perform poorly.
And it's really not a Mac thing. If I were a PC user I'd be responding the same way. It seems to me there has to be a market out there for games that perform well on mid-range computers. There is probably a market for computer gamers who aren't interested in shelling out hundreds of dollars every year -- for one game. Technical limitations shouldn't, and really don't stop one from producing a fun game. This is one of the reasons I enjoy playing emus far more than the latest releases; all the 3D crap gets out of hand sometimes.
A company needs to emerge, or a company like ID should seriously think of creating one kick-ass game targeted at low/mid-range systems; something people with 3 year old systems want just as bad as those with the latest and greatest. I think it's possible.
Older hardware still has a lot of life in it. I remember Sierra games released in the early 90s could still run on PCJrs released in the early 80s. A good game doesn't mean forcing people to splurge on expensive hardware. What I'm talking about here is a game just as well-developed and thought out as Doom 3, but targeted to run on older and newer hardware.
I don't think it's crazy. If anything it would generate more customers, especially if marketed correctly. There's people who enjoy the FPS genre, but aren't interested in the teenage upgrade cycle. Consoles are an answer to a certain extent, but FPS have rarely been executed correctly on them.
i have two comments (Score:4, Funny)
2. i seem to recall playing this game four years ago when it was called 'system shock 2'
My own little review (Score:4, Informative)
The game has a half-life story: Bunch of monsters spawning because of wacko-scientific experiments. Whatever. The guns are all standard, pistol, shotgun, machine gun, grenade, rocket launcher, and of course BFG and plasma rifle; also nothing new.
Gameplay largely involves walking around identical looking factory/metal corridors. The lighting is always always dark. This is particularly frustrating since our hero is incapable of wielding both a flashlight and a weapon. Yes, that's right. The flashlight is technically a weapon, and you can't hold 2 weapons at the same time. That means you often find yourself shooting in the dark hoping you hit stuff. Highly annoying.
There is very little to figure out, all the maps are linear with no more than one-way to go. The 'secrets' in the game usually involve either looking behind a shelf for some ammo, or entering a code you found for some safe.
Because the engine is so taxing, there are very few monsters at any given time. Usually 2, at most 5. There are few open areas.
If you haven't gotten the idea, it's basically a very pretty, but utterly dull shoot 'em up. There is no secondary fire, and the weapons are unimaginative. The storyline is virtually nonexistant. After 10 levels, I still know next to nothing, except ****SPOILER*** there is some 'evil' scientist running around, and there's my marine captain trying to help us contact Earth. *** END SPOILER***.
Finding new monsters is undoubtable the 'coolest' thing, since they are so well made. But that is about the only thing that makes me come crawling back. I'd wait a bit before you consider picking this up.
Re:My own little review (Score:4, Funny)
So, what you're saying is that it's like
Quality of Experience... (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's my experience: I bought the game just after midnight last night. I waited in line for about 25 minutes to pay $54.99 for the game. I missed getting the free T-shirt because too many other people showed up before me and they ran out. I go home and start to install the game from the CD's. Disc 1 has a serious problem and keeps failing reading at about 98% of the way through. Eventually after trying 2 different CD-ROM drives and cleaning the brand-new disc several times, I am able to get it to read and continue the install. Now, after the game is installed, I try to run it. It won't let me start without disc 1 in the drive. Okay, I get out disc 1 again and put it in the drive. Now it tells me it won't run because I have CD emulation software running. Okay, I disable daemon tools. Still, Doom 3 refuses to load. At this point, I give up and download the NoCD patch. After that, everything works fine.
Compare this experience to that of my friend. My friend just clicked the download link on a Bittorrent site and waited a few hours. After that, he loads each
Obviously, I'm being the good moral person by purchasing the game. However, the fact remains that my experience is notably worse than that of my friend who just pirated it. I guess the game developers don't care.
I cannot tell a lie. (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not one to run around screaming "This game roxors!", and I do understand what many of the complaints here are about. No, there really isn't anything groundbreaking going on (graphics and sound excluded). However, having scarred my lungs from chainsmoking through the original Doom back in the 90's I think id has done a damn good job at recreating Doom for the modern PC.
If you had asked me to justify my usenet leeching Saturday night, I would have responded that I would buy a copy as soon as the linux binaries were released and I knew that it would run acceptably on my box. Truth be told, I'll be picking the box up tomorrow, filing the CD's away for safe keeping, reinstalling my downloaded copy with a legit serial and re-applying the patch.
Why? Because id made a kick ass game and I'll support it.
Something I think that the BBC (and so many in the market) are not considering is this... yes, there's going to be more than the usual amount of piracy going on with D3. Simply speaking, there are a lot of people who just are not sure if their hardware can take it... I wasn't. Now that I am (and that I know linux binaries are on the way), I'll happily throw down my change for the legal copy.
All of that being said... I was damn pleased to see [H]ard|OCP was playing it (mostly) straight. My AMD XP 2500+, 768 Mb, PNY Gefrorce 5600 Ultra, with XP Pro runs this just fine at 800x600 with medium detail. In a few places, I've turned it up to 1024x768 with fully glory effects and just stood still to examine the screen. Usually, if I do this I'm damned disappointed when I go back to playable settings... this time, I wasn't.
Anyway... longwided and sounding a bit like a fanboy, I know. But I just wanted to add my two cents in. Heavy piracy won't surprise me. Neither will users buying the game after they've tested it out, either.
The big reasons for going legit will be Coop mode. Whether it's a really well done user created mod, or an id add-on... that'll be the biggest reason for many to drop their burned CD's and pickup a serial.
Meanwhile (Score:5, Insightful)
In about four years, I figure I'll pick up Doom 3 for a similar price, assuming that it doesn't suck.
Why on Earth people are in such a hurry I have no idea. The game isn't going to vanish if you don't buy it the first day, and it's not like it's the only good game in existence.
Doom 3 bashing? (Score:5, Insightful)
A game can be hugely innovative, executing the most ambitious of design docs--but all of this falls flat without sufficient Little Things That Add Up (TM). It makes me feel as if people are bashing Doom 3 because when they are playing, they aren't really "playing" it--they spend so much time looking for the big picture (Doom 3 is just another FPS) that they miss those little things.
A response from a disappointed gamer (Score:4, Interesting)
I thought Doom 3 was the greatest game ever for the first 20-30 minutes. Checking out the news channel and viewing UAC's promo vids was sheer heaven. After hell took over and all the lights went out, suddenly I picked up the formula. After a while, I was guessing every corner something would be in. Sure enough. It got to the point where for every new room I entered, I would run in to hit the trigger than backgrack and just wait for whatever it was to appear so I could kill it and move on. I didn't feel like I had any real room to fight the monsters, and it was too dark for me to get any good shots, so that's how it mostly was for me. Run in, run out, wait for baddies to come to me so I could pick them off.
It just got stale. Believe me, I wanted to enjoy it as much as you clearly want me to. I'm not bashing id's efforts or the engine itself (even if it is way too dark). I can appreciate id's hard work while still criticizing the final product's shortcomings.
20 hours of black, silver, and red? No thanks!
User Review: 10 out of 10 ! !! (Score:4, Insightful)
How many times do I have to see:
"10 out of 10!! I can't wait to play it!!!"
WTF? That's not really a review is it.....
"relatively low price"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Forgive me for being a cynic, but I don't see 60 bucks as "relatively low price". Give me the game for 20 bucks (like counterstrike) and I'll go out and pay money. Try to sell it for 60 (especially a single player game) and I won't buy it. Either I just won't get it at all, or I'll just download or copy a friend's CD or (heavens no) I'll wait until he's done with it and play it afterwards. I can only assume that constitutes fair use of a single-computer licence, but I wouldn't be suprised if it were forbidden by the EULA.
Yes,
Radeon problems (Score:4, Informative)
I started having those problems after the first few objectives, starting in Alpha Labs.
After trying all the obvious solutions (updating drivers for various hardware, trying the different sound settings in dxdiag, etc.), I found that turning AGP completely off makes the game stop freezing.
Hope this helps any of you, because I was just about to throw the Doom3 CDs out the window when I found the solution.
I'm proud of it. (Score:5, Interesting)
We think a lot of people will like it.
I don't follow gaming message boards, because, at its best, entertainment is going to be a subjective thing that can't win for everyone, while at worst, a particular game just becomes a random symbol for petty tribal behavior. This slashdot story is about as close as I want to go...
Amidst all the various Doom ports and expansions, we are starting up on our next game. It will have a new rendering engine, which will be keeping me busy for a while, but the only other thing we are saying for now is that it won't be a sequel to any of our previous work. We have a really solid team that did a lot of maturing through Doom's development, so I have high hopes that it won't be another four year odyssey.
John Carmack
Here's a review I baked earlier... (Score:5, Interesting)
The middle of these three titles in terms of release date, Doom III has perhaps the most impressive pedigree. iD software created the first modern fps with Doom, over 10 years ago. Since then, their Quake series, while often felt to be lacking in terms of gameplay, has given us the technical milestones that have marked the progression of the genre. Doom 3 has been in development for four years and from the very beginning of its development, we've been told to expect something groundbreaking.
Some retailers jumped the gun slightly on iD's release date. This meant I had a chance to play the game early and was coming to the end of it just as most players were getting started. I'm writing this review on the basis of a single playthrough on the "normal" difficulty setting and I've not yet really touched on the multiplayer, so I won't be factoring that in.
iD have made it clear from the beginning that we'd be needing an absolutely monster PC to play this game well. I don't really have one. The system used for the purpose of this review was:
Pentium 4 2.0ghz Northwood
512 mb RDRAM
Geforce 4 Ti4200
Sound Blaster AWE 32.
Not exactly obsolete, but hardly cutting edge.
So, with the preliminaries out of the way, how does the game shape up?
Pretty well, all things considered. On loading up, I'm confronted with the normal array of options. I customise my controls to my liking and then decide on some graphics settings. I'm a sucker for detail and will generally put up with a bit of framerate loss in return for an extra touch of "wow factor". First of all, I try the "ultra" detail settings in 1024x768 resolution. It takes me 30 seconds to find this is completely unplayable. No real surprise there. So I change the detail level down to "high", which, annoyingly, requires me to quit and restart the game. To my surprise, things now run fairly well. Although I experiment a bit further, I end up playing through the game with these settings. By and large, it's pretty good, although a couple of the bigger areas do cause fairly severe slowdown,
The opening sections of the game are very much reminiscent of Half-Life. You wander through the colony while people go about their lives and work around you. Expect to spend several minutes more than is strictly necessary here, just gawping at the level of detail. The visuals really are like nothing we've seen before. Farcry's outdoor sections were stunning, but the effect broke down indoors. Here, the indoor areas look almost photorealistic at times. There's a solid, gritty feeling to everything and it all fits together very well.
You're given a few "go to point A then point B" objectives and then, predictably, all hell quite literally breaks loose. It's hard to get over in a review just how terrifying it is when everything goes wrong. My reaction as the people around me started deforming into hideous monsters was verging on outright panic. I stayed in a pretty much constant state of fear for about the next 5 hours of the game, with occasional resurgences right through to the end.
Once the shooting starts, the nature of the game stays pretty much constant. You get an objective, usually to go to a location or find a way of opening a door, over your communicator. Accomplishing the objective involves moving through a sequence of rooms and corridors, dealing with any enemies you come across with extreme prejudice. As I've already said, this is extremely scary at first. Everywhere is very dark (more on this later) and the enemies really are quite unpleasant. Expect
Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Unreal Tournament and others have filled the niche of playing head to head rather well. No one cares as much about the graphics quality, the omg lighting effects, the dark horror of the story...they care about fragging that bastard who just got the rocket pack you were headed for.
Doom 3 seems much more a single player game and well appreciated for it. I expect that in time, multiplayer will be beefed up some and become more viable. But for the time being, this is a single player game that seems to be kicking ass at showcasing great effects, great design and a good story-line.
Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Until then, Quake3 scene is still alive, especially finely-tweaked competition mods such as CPMA [promode.org].
Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Multi-player has it's place, but Doom has for the most part always been a First Person SHooter in the pure sense, AND, I think it's loseing it's focus/direction/attraction by going multi-multi player. Two, three man teams, maybe even TWO two or three man teams. That's it.
Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Interesting)
I vaguely recall an interview with someone at id saying the almost the same thing, that deathmatch FPS games had reached a plateau and most players play with a lot of the graphical settings off anyway (for example using 2d icons), so that was part of the reasoning for making a single player game.
Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, the single player game is great. I'm decently far in (I have the BFG) and I'd have to say that the atmosphere and tension are excellent. I'll be moving slowly through an environment, wondering where the next group of enemies will pop up, and then something will happen and I'll find myself in an intense fight. The beginning of the game has a lot of smaller encounters -- don't worry, the difficulty and intensity continues to escalate throughout the game. While the game itself tends to be fairly linear, I think it's understandable in that it's more of a methodical, horror type game that makes use of scripted effects and sequences to heighten the tension and terror. At the point I'm at I feel constantly nervous with a sense of foreboding; while I've been scared I haven't jumped out of my chair (unlike my girlfriend, who had to stop playing)
I have played 4 player DM with my friends and I have to say that it's a blast. I've always preferred smaller DM (I don't see the point in spawning, killing a guy who happens to be next to you, then dying quickly), and the well designed DM maps are very fun to play on. I've had a good mix between surprises and insane firefights (wait until you try berserk mode!)
Regarding how well it runs: I have an Athlon XP 1600+ with 512 MB of RAM and a Geforce FX 5700 Ultra. I can play in 1024x768 at medium quality with high effects and only experience some occasional stuttering. One of my friends has a similar computer with a Geforce4 MX and he says that 800x600 at medium runs very smooth.
All in all, I'm very pleased with this game and would say that it definately lives up to the hype. Make sure your monitor brightness is set to a decent level -- at first I had mine way too dark, and the game wasn't nearly as enjoyable. You should be able to see your environment without a flashlight. Also be sure to set your system to surround sound in Control Panel->Sounds and Audio->Volume Tab->Advanced, as the game doesn't support EAX and its autodetection or whatever.
Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Insightful)
I have to disagree with you; I've been playing with the gamma set to "normal" levels, so I can't see the baddies in the shadows unless I use the flashlight. In a darkened room, with the headphones up fairly loud, the game is overwhelmingly intense. The time it takes to switch the flashlight back to your weapon, shooting at vague shadows in the dark, realizing you've just run from a pack of imps into a pitch-black corridor, the whole lighting scheme (and/orlack thereof) is a huge part of the game.
I know some of my feelings for this game come from the excitement of playing the original, and seeing how well they've improved on it, but I think this game still calls for setting your own environment to "ultra-creepy" and immersing yourself.
Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Insightful)
And you are correct sir. (Score:5, Interesting)
The single player starts out tense and atmospheric, and quickly gets dull. A lot of people will try comparing this game to System Shock 2, but outside of the audio/video logs and oddly designed facilities, the scares never really change.
Idiots will probably respond to this with, "ZOMG ITS ANN FPS WAT D U EXPCT", but the scares almost never change. Enemies bust out of strangely hidden compartments in the walls and cealing behind and in front of you, and you'll be able to guess exactly where the lights will mysteriously go out after about an hour of playing.
Comparing Doom 3 to Half Life is just stupid. The grunts in HL actually try to flank you and use grenades to drive you out of cover. The zombie marines in Doom 3 either run up and empty their clip at you, or find a single spot of cover and pop out every couple seconds to shoot. Pretty much everything demonic just rushes you from whatever wall compartment you walked by.
Did I mention that your flashlight is separate from your guns, and you can't even have a pistol and flashlight out at the same time? Combine that with how freaking dark Doom 3 is (and it is VERY dark), and you'll either be getting chewed up switching back and forth from flashlight to gun, or just firing blindly in the dark. Yeah, that's fun alright.
Doom 3 makes an awesome first impression, but in the end the whole experience is just shallow. The engine is incredible and no doubt the mod scene will do some amazing stuff with it, but Doom 3 isn't revolutionary. Hell, it's barely evolutionary.
Pick it up now if you're starved for a passable singleplayer FPS, or if you're looking to impress all the l33t kiddies with your framerate counts.
For everyone else, wait until Id comes to their senses and drops the price to $45-50.
Re:And you are correct sir. (Score:4, Informative)
But don't let me throw you, you spend a LOT of time running through similar looking futuristic tunnels with crappy light fixtures that go out if you look at them crosseyed.
Re:So what's next for id software..? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:freakin great (Score:4, Interesting)
The description of this game was right, a remake of the original Doom, with new graphics. That's it. Nothing new in terms of gameplay. Sneak around. Get spooked. Empty your clip into a zombie. Move on to the next room. Ho-hum.
Glad I "tried it before I bought it." I'll be deleting it soon enough.
Re:freakin great (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:freakin great (Score:5, Insightful)
(Well, it could be played other ways than just run and gun -- almost adventure game style instead of FPS.)
Re:freakin great (Score:4, Informative)
I didn't get to vote for it... RECOUNT!
I think D3 is better than Half-Life in everyway. The only thing about Half-Life that was admirable was the possibility of a second ending.
Re:freakin great (Score:5, Insightful)
Most newer games at least attempt to do something different. Original HL has some nice scripted events and fancy "AI" enemy tactics. Plus it had an engaging story. Some games experiment with varying levels - huge outdoor levels mixed with cramped indoor ones. Some mix stealth tactics with pure run-n-gun. Jedi Knight II had cool transitions from FPS to 3rd-person saber battles. Call of Duty has you storming beaches, being a sniper, infiltrating buildings, driving a tank, etc.
Doom III is a straight up "creep from one monotonous room to the next, while shooting the monsters that spawn behind you" game, with some snazzy new graphics. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it is non anything revolutionary. It is what it is. The enemy AI is nonexistent - they run right at you while you blast them. The weapons are typical and uninspired. The plot is old. The whole "use your PDA to read other people's email and notes to get clues" has been done.
All in all, it's a very average game wrapped in a $20 million graphics engine. Nothing more.
Re:freakin great (Score:5, Interesting)
With Doom 3, that's not the case.
The first thing that strikes you about the game is how cohesive everything is. The attention to detail is fantastic, from the UAC propoganda films, to the video discs, emails and audio logs, there's been a whole wealth of production value been heaped on incidentals, making the station feel more alive and really making you feel more like you're actually on Mars.
There are a number of different enemies, each with their unique abilities. The enemy AI is not non-existent, the zombie soliders hide behind walls and crates, ducking down to get a better shot. They chase you around corners before barrel rolling and ducking down to get you. They bunch themselves right up against pillars so you can't see them, they path-find through doors and other rooms to get you, I even saw one soldier try and climb through the railing that seperated him and me. Combined with the fact that things happen on all 4 sides since imps and spiders climb out of the ceiling and walls and scuttle down them with perfect animation and timing... means this is not a dumb or easy game.
Massive machinery, using grappling hooks to lift toxic barrels, using the relative safety of the roving sentry guns to aid your progress, listening to the radio chatter from your dying soldiers, following the scientist with the electric lamp as he leads you through the dark corridors (his shadow stretching up every wall with perfect accuracy), being scared by your own shadow, seeing enemies bend doors and rip them off their hinges before lunging at you, or crashing through glass windows... I could go on. There are plenty of scripted sequences, small and large indoor areas, you get out onto the surface of Mars, some enemies require you to just get in there and shoot, others require a bit more care. And slowly you descend into Hell, where the real fun begins.
Don't just dismiss Doom 3 as a simple blaster, it's an experience to be enjoyed and repeated. People's expectations are clouding their judgements, when id should be congratulated for doing exactly what they said they would do, create a scary, chilling re-imagining of the original Doom.
Re:freakin great (Score:4, Funny)
No... (Score:5, Insightful)
Half-Life was different. That's why I liked it. Deus Ex was different. That's why I liked it. Far Cry was different...you get the idea.
Hell, I've already SEEN this shadowy bump-mapped corridor thing done in Far Cry's interior levels. Yet those areas were interspersed between buggy/boat driving, gorgeous tropical outdoor environments...hell, even hangliding.
I'm hugely disappointed. I was a big fan of the original Doom games, but even they provided more variety than this. EVERY SINGLE ROOM is dark and shadowy. After a while, I was predicting every corner that something would be hiding in and pop out of. It felt so contrived.
Think about this--would this game be getting the press it's getting if it was done by a company other than id Software and wasn't carrying the name "Doom" on the box? No...people would be saying the bump-mapping is nice, but the gameplay is repetitive. How PC Gamer gave this a 94% amazes me. Wait, I forgot, id Software is the gaming media's darling child. Meanwhile, Epic, CryTek, Valve, and more have all caught up to id and surprassed them.
It's like id Software made a FPS from the 90s. Run, shoot, run. But with even less variety than the original Doom! They haven't caught onto the current FPS genre at all. Nice engine, but boring game.
Re:freakin great (Score:5, Funny)
I'll wait for a few weeks until the rush has died down, then I'll go buy it at my leisure.
N.
Re:freakin great (Score:4, Interesting)
Kudos need to go to id for milking everything out of a video card to give a great presentation. I do plan on upgrading my video card when ATIs latest and greatest becomes ubiquitos in Australia but there isn't a need for me to go running out right now to do it.
Re:freakin great (Score:4, Funny)
Let me know when you want to unload that piece of crap, I'll give it a good home.
Cheats and Console Commands (Score:5, Informative)
Doom 3 Console Commands and cheats [tech-recipes.com]
If you figure out any more, please let me know.
I didn't really get that old doom feeling until I turned on noclip and walked through a few walls anyway.
Re:freakin great (Score:5, Funny)
Warning: attempted humour
Doom Three: Two simple words --the former a noun, or transitive verb; the latter the third ordinal, or second prime. But together, they bond to become a powerful concept. One greater than the sum of its parts, a new world-view paradigm, a religion, a little boy's wish, a grown man's hope, yet so much more that cannot be said. I cannot wait -- as I write this from the queue outside my local game shop, my hand trembles; it's cold and the last eight days here have been lonely at night. I sit here, shaking in anxiety for the shop to open, feverishly and unconciously tugging at myself through my ripped pockets, salivating at the thought of buying that precious 27-CD shrink wrapped bundle of frag-laden joyness. I can no longer feel the pain of hunger gnawing at me, or my unblinked eyes drying out as mosquito after mosquito lay filthy eggs on my unmoving door-focused corneas.
Once I get my stinking body inside, punching, kicking and gouging all who stand in my way before setting paws on the box, the sweaty, piss soaked bundle of canadian dollars hurled across the counter, not waiting for the reciept (I WILL NEVER RETURN IT) I shall then flee home, globs of frosted faeces tumbling down my trouser legs, to rip the box to shreds as I scamper up the stairs to my apartment door, barely avoiding slipping to my death on the spattering of saliva that spews ahead as I gurgle and scream. I spend two days loading CD after CD of the Carmack code mana into my pathetic 40GB drive, uninstalling and carelessly -- and joyfully -- deleting any important files/documents or Windows DLLs that stand in my way until all 18.5GB of its magnificant glory sits arranged in pretty streams of bytes in the hallowed magnetic media of my laptop's Winchester. I wait, wait and wait some more as the last bit is flipped from 1 to 0 and XP coughs yet another 32x32 icon onto my disorganized desktop. I grab my Razer Viper, impatient fingers biting into the sides of it like a hawk plucking a salmon from a river -- I slide the mouse smoothly to the icon and double click... first slowly, then rapidly speeding up, I begin clicking like some kind of maniacal parkinsons afflicted beta tester, not caring whether I spawn one or a hundred copies of the executable. I just want to see something. I can't wait any longer. NOW.
SHOW ME LIGHTMAPS DAMMIT.
The cooling fan audibly shifts gears in my AthlonXP 2200+ laptop; whining, whirring like some kind of demented air conditioner and I swear the screen is sweating -- maybe it's excited too? I hear the dulcit squeals of pain as my motherboard integrated radeon IGP 320, radeon 7000 equivalent video card struggles to preload megabyte after megabyte of 32 bit texture into the 64MB of shared SDRAM that it so tenuously controls.
SHOW ME DYNAMIC LIGHTS, DAMMIT.
I notice a strange smell from somewhere, something new, sharp on the nose, not at all like the waft of dried urine that sneaks around under the desk; what is that? As I unconsciously let another flow of hot piss run down my leg -- this is no time for toilet pleasantries -- I ponder the source of the new acrid smell, whilst mainly watching the harddrive light flicker, then remain permanently on. Thefan shifts gears once more.
SHOW ME TRILINEAR FILTERING, DAMMIT.
Fifteen minutes pass, the smell grows stronger; I imagine in my minds eye, each CPU clock cycle, 1.8 million times a second, sucking, pumping and routing that precious bytestream and distributing it to all the hardware that comprises my sub-1000$ laptop. Suddenly, *POOF*, the magic blue smoke appears, wispy at first, then blows rapidly in large plumes from all vents as the CPU fan generates gusts best measured on the Beaufort scale. Then, the screen fades rapidly to a white dot: "Oh the suspense!" I squeal to myself with glee. For a few moment
Re:piracy (Score:4, Insightful)
In other news, the girl who got raped when walking in the dark alley brought it upon herself.
-Erwos
Re:piracy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:piracy (Score:5, Insightful)
I bought my copy today. I don't know why you assumed I downloaded it. If theft and copyright infringement are the same thing then why did people make a second word to describe the same thing? Answer: Because they are not the same thing. You can only steal a noun. Since information is neither person nor place nor thing it cannot be stealing or thievery. You can steal a painting, you can steal a CD, and you can steal a book. You cannot steal an authors inspiration. Calling someone who downloads coprighted material a thief is incorrect. It's like calling someone who hates rich people a racist. While both are a form of hate they are distinctly different. It doesn't speak highly of a persons intelligence if they consistently use the wrong vocabulary just to stir an emotional response. You should leave that to lawyers and politicians. Find me a case where someone bootlegging CDs was charged with burglary and I'll retract my statement.
Re:piracy (Score:5, Insightful)
A boxed CD is definately something physical. That's why downloading it is copyright infringment and removing a box from a store without paying is stealing.
I correct people, not because it makes infringment more acceptable, but because I do what I can to counter all of the misinformation spewed by lawyers and special interest groups that would like the average person to be as completely ignorant as possible. We're living in an era where paid politicians are stripping personal rights to make the jobs of copyright enforcers easier. They aren't adding new laws or protections, copyright protection has always been there. They are just making enforcement and prevention easier at the expense of our rights.
How many 'anti-theft' solutions are smart enought to know when I'm exercising fair-use to make a backup because I'm hard on my CDs and want to keep the originals stored in my CD rack? How many media groups will take a damaged CD and replace it for only the cost of the media and S&H? When you buy a CD you are buying a license to use it. You still have the license even if the medium is destroyed, yet most every time you break a CD you have to go back to the store and buy a new one for full price. Copyright is an important and complex issue and will become ever more complex as communication and technology advance and spread to new people. Yet most people don't even think or care about it and how it affects them. History dictates that most people don't really care about their rights or freedoms until they are gone. I do what I can to make sure that I and everyone around take them into full consideration before signing them over to some corporation. The myth that copyright infringemnt and stealing are the same thing is midlessly supporting the corporate line that wants to keep the average person oblivious to their rights.
Re:piracy (Score:5, Insightful)
It is legally distinct from theft... "the felonious
taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same".
In a case of illegal copying, no property is actually removed from the rightful owner.
I'm not saying that makes it any less illegal, or makes it morally justified, but the earlier poster was at least correct in that it is -not- theft.
Re:piracy (Score:5, Interesting)
Why would you want to? The only reason I can see is to perpetuate a class/caste system of haves and have-nots.
If everyone can copy anything, including the boxes that themselves make the copies, how is anyone the poorer?
Movable type put monks out of business. Horseless carriages put buggy-whip manufacturers out of business. Digital copiers (computers) are working towards putting record and movie comglomerates out of business--but not creative types who would create whether they were being paid or not, because they have a spark in them that will still be there once we're a cashless society.
However, with all my examples we still have a thriving industry of book publishing, transportation, and entertainment. Some bubbles burst; the entertainment one is about to go the way of the dot-com and tulip bubbles, which were generating far more money than they were actually worth.
My main point, though, is this: what is your plan to deal with matter copiers, if you're so vehemently against digital copiers?
Re:piracy (Score:5, Informative)
Copying bits that are arranged in a deliberate order against the stated wishes of the material's creator is theft. So is "borrowing" it.
Incorrect. Those actions are copyright infringement, not theft. Theft involves taking something from its owner, with the intent to deprive them of it. When you make infringing copies you are taking something, but not depriving anyone else of it.
If it's worth owning, wait for it and pay for it.
Agreed. Just don't apply labels that don't fit. "Theft" has legal and moral meanings that don't apply to copyright infringement. Copyright infringement is a crime, and although it doesn't deprive anyone of anything, it does violate an important social contract, so what it is is enough, without calling it something else.
If you don't "wanna pay for it", and the creator hasn't told you it's free for the taking, you have no right to possess a copy of it.
More precisely, we as a society have decided that to give up that right, mostly, for a time, in order to promote the publication of more works. We as individuals should understand and honor this choice, because it's a good one. Again, though, don't make the mistake of assuming that the author of a work has some natural right to control the work. The only natural right the author has is to decide whether or not to create it, and whether or not to publish it. Everything after that is a legal fiction (for a good reason).
Re:piracy (touché) (Score:4, Interesting)
Okay, okay. I was trying to make a distinction between the legal "label" and the common usage of the word...
Grrr.
But you're right, and I'm wrong.
(The "legal" and "moral" meanings are certainly not identical. That was what I had hoped to say by using the word "theft"... uh... imprecisely. Apologies all 'round.)
Again, though, don't make the mistake of assuming that the author of a work has some natural right to control the work.
Agreed, and understood - I intended to refer only to the "legal fiction" of such a right, not any "natural right."
<grrr>
Re:Low Price? (Score:4, Insightful)
Many interesting board games such as Carcassonneor Cranium cost almost that much. You generally only play those for a few hours. Taking your GF to the movies can easily be $30 ($50AUS?) for two tickets, parking, and a popcorn combo and that only lasts two hours. A night at the bar can quickly run in the hundreds. A table top game like Warhammer 40,000 will cost $50 for the rule book and single models can cost $10 a pop (people often have over $1k of miniatures!). How much does a tank of gas cost in your vehicle if you want to go on a road trip? $30? What about a hotel room? $80?
Life is expensive. If you like games then set aside enough cash to buy one a month. I wish games were cheaper so kids could give them as gifts at birthday parties or more relatives could give them at Christmas, but I don't set the pricing. If you can afford modern hardware then you can probably afford the software. If you don't think Doom3 is worth your money then contribute to a Free/Open Source game.
If I get four hours of enjoyment out of Doom3 I'll be happy. In fact I'd rather have it last 4 hours and be totally fun than have it drawn out over 40 where I'm bored of the game for the last 30 hours.
Re:The Doom 3 piracy troll... (Score:5, Insightful)
Something tells me that the MSRP is going to be 'street price' until all the crack junkie id fanboys (like me) buy our copy of and remember what it was like to be a 'day one warez d00d'.
Doom I got a chance to revolutionize the gaming industry because they gave it away - so id worked. It is still going to work, even if the pirates need a fatter pipe this time around.
Re:The Doom 3 piracy troll... (Score:5, Insightful)
the full package of levels went for $40.00 in 1994.
doom 3 is a much more complicated piece of software, running on much more complicated platforms. the level designs are a few orders of magnitude more complex than doom 1/2 level designs.
the demo's coming.
don't pee your pants.
it could be worse... i'm waiting on the linux binaries.
Re:The Doom 3 piracy troll... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yet somehow these same gamer kids can afford the hardware needed to run Doom 3. There is a difference between not having the money, and simply not being willing to spend it.
If Id and Activision would sell it for $29.95, their sales would probably increase 500 to 700 percent. Overpricing because of greed will be the kiss of death.
And this gets modded up as insightful somehow
Re:The Doom 3 piracy troll... (Score:5, Insightful)
Mom, dad, I need this computer with a radeon 9800XT and a 3 Ghz HT P4 because I will be studying all the time and I have to do it to do good in class. I can even use it to run programs to help with stuff for college and all
"well, johnny, ok, if you will be using it to study and it will really help you get into a good college then I think it's a good 2500 dollars spent. *to store clerk* I don't know much about these computers but my son does and he has to have the top of the line for school so just get whatever he thinks is good."
3 months later, with no work ever being done on the computer, the parent realizes all the computer is now being used for is chatting online, reading email, and games that were bought ages ago. Doom III is released.
Dad, I want to get this oh so cool game dad. Everyone is buying it and it's the coolest thing ever.
Dad, while not knowing much about computers, knows about scams and suddenly realizes he was being completely played for a fool. He says "no" and Johnny still wants that game. Oh what ever does a young school boy do, who spends all his time doing nothing very productive(part time jobs are not an option for johnny, he isn't used to his parents seeing through his bullshit, but then, this is probably the first time it cost so much).
Part time jobs are not the option but his best buddy just told him about suprnova, a great sight that you can get anything for free. After misspelling the name several times and going to the
Yeah, this happens. I did it once, convincing my parents that a top of the line computer was needed for school. Unfortunately my uncle and aunt are computer engineers so they got calls first and my bull shit only had a slight effect. Not so many people have that uncle or aunt who can ruin those hard worked plans.
Re:The Doom 3 piracy troll... (Score:5, Insightful)
There is never a lack of understanding of simple supply and demand on Slashdot. Since when is charging a price that people are willing to pay "a bad move ethically"? Since when is investing and risking your own money into the creation of a product and then releasing said product to the world for a price they are fine with paying "a blatant money-grub" (sic)?
Let me ask you. Do you try to maximize the money you make in your workplace (I'm assuming you work)? Or do you say to your employer, "You know, you really pay me more than I need. I wish you would lower my pay by $.50 an hour, or whatever. Do you? Don't you feel bad that you are so unethical for trying to make the most money you can at what you do?
I can't believe there are people that actually think making money off a product is unethical. Do you think companies are out to break even? Of course not, that's not why they exist. Would you rather id and Activision not even exist, so they wouldn't have even made Doom 3, and their evil plot to make money hadn't occurred? Seriously, try to think critically before you speak.
Piracy: The Tax of Popularity (Score:5, Insightful)
Proportionately, I'm fairly certain that the numbers of legit users to pirates are probably the same. Sure, there's a lot more pirates numerically, but I think that the ratio is probably no more than it was 10-15 years ago.
An online author, and for the life of me I can't remember who (someone who linked to the article would be doing a huge favor), wrote a year or two ago that online piracy was a fact of life and should be considered a tax of popularity. Besides, how many people listen to the radio for one or two good songs from an album instead of buying the album? How many people read a book through their local library instead of buying it? How many people buy used games or music (and not a dollar of which sees iD or, say, Island Records)? Even if we're not talking intellectual property, how many jeans are stolen at the Gap?
I think iD will walk out of Doom 3 quite a bit richer than if they hadn't released it all, so I wouldn't worry about John Carmack starving on the streets with a sign reading "Will Code Huge Hit Game for Food." If rampant piracy of their game somehow surprises iD, shame on them. People getting your product for free is part of doing business.
Re:Quake3 engine open-source? When? (Score:5, Informative)
Hopefully punkbuster will keep the source release from having any negative impact on the player community.
John Carmack
Re:Quake3 engine open-source? When? (Score:5, Funny)
Would one of those higher priority things be providing duct tape to the largest, most powerful high tech company in the solar system that happens to run an installation on Mars that seems to have a high percentage of leaking ducts?
It is also useful for taping flashlights to weapons, or the side of one's helmet.
Thanks,
A Concerned Marine.
(I kid - please don't send flaming skulls to my house;)