HardOCP Wins Against Infinium Labs 323
An anonymous reader writes "HardOCP has won a huge legal round against Infinium Labs. The WhereIsPhantom website has all the details, straight from the court dockets. There is a list of orders a mile long for Infinium Labs and owner Tim Roberts to comply with by Sept. 30th."
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It didn't make it to this article, but four employees quit yesterday from Infinium Labs for various reasons including a late paycheck. The Sarasota office is expected to close (the one with the $300,000 sign) and all operations move to Seattle. There'll be more tomorrow I promise. (And hopefully that'll include more bandwidth.)
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Just be sure to come back later and visit. We've got over 200 articles covering the entire saga from beginning to end. The tale includes money trails, court intrigue, drugs, hackers and phreakers... you just can't make this stuff up.
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But no hookers? Boring.
I applied for a job with them (Score:5, Interesting)
The guys I talked to even thought that PA's shot at them was funny, so they have a sense of humor about all the press. I'm sort of glad I wasn't offered a job, though. Too much wierd stuff was happening.
Re:I applied for a job with them (Score:3, Insightful)
Has it actually escaped your attention that the good con artists always do? It's their primary stock in trade.
Has it also actually escaped your attention that the employees of a good con artist are often as not just as much dupes of the scam as the customers?
"But they seemed so nice!" is the nearly universal cry of the suckered.
KFG
Re:0 posts (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm watching the E3 footage from infinium, and there does seem to be a prototype, but I'm astounded by the amount they want; $29.99 for a minimum committment of two years comes out at $730, which is a hell of a thing and tends to suggest that they're trying to get behind a subscription model.
So the question is, was this basically a repackaged PC in a nice box?
Hmm...yes, the UI does look suspiciously 'flash
Re:0 posts (Score:2, Interesting)
At Night [phantom.net]
In the Day [phantom.net]
Color changing signs cost $300k?
Peace
Re:Coral doesn't work 1/2 the damn time (Score:5, Informative)
Coral is a cacheing solution; unless it can get a copy of the site to cache it, it can't serve it up.
This is why Coral needs to be used beforehand (IE, in the slashdot post) in order to be of any use. And even then, it works best on sites that have relative URLs on the images.
A suggestion to the owner of said site: Coralize as much of your site as you can, and enable HTTP compression (mod_gzip, mod_deflate, IIS6's compression, etc) for whatever else you can. With all that combined even a home connection should be able to handle a slashdotting.
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Re: Seems pretty childish, Kyle [H]... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: Seems pretty childish, Kyle [H]... (Score:5, Informative)
[H] simply called bullshit on IL's claims about the phantom. IL responded in the fashion that Mark Felchstain, Spammer Lawyer, would be proud of: a SLAPP [wikipedia.org] suit. That kind of garbage sure justifies the "dick up [Kyle's] ass." You don't see that kind of crap lawsuit flying around whenever someone makes a crack about DNF.
Bitch Slap (Score:5, Insightful)
All of that said, I have a great deal of respect for HardOCP. People throw threaten lawsuits over dumb shit like this too often. It is nice to see someone punch these fuckers back.
Re: Why was IL attacked in the first place, tho? (Score:3, Informative)
Why did [H] write an article about IL? because they made huge claims and people were interested, that's why.
Re: Why was IL attacked in the first place, tho? (Score:3, Insightful)
He did what many many journalists would do and investigated.
I suggest you go learn about good journalism.
I, for one, applaud what he's done.
Re: Why was IL attacked in the first place, tho? (Score:3, Informative)
There was no commercial gain from this journalism worth the risk of getting it all wrong and making enemies of future industry players.
It's good to see this sort of questioning in the games industry. Often journalists write trite fawning nonsense or rehash press releases.
Re: Seems pretty childish, Kyle [H]... (Score:5, Informative)
When that article was posted 12 months ago, Infinium had burned through several million dollars in venture capital with nothing to show but some renders and a glossy page of marketing lingo. They were "quite anxious" to get their hands on another 25-50 million US dollars. And it was pretty evident to those who were trying to get info on the console that- not only was it vaporware, it was vaporware hawked by a guy with a really shady history of business dealings.
Kyle's article, while written in a sophomoric style, was very enlightening. It was truthful and Infinium's complaint is that it chased away potential investors. Damn right it it did, and rightfully so!
Re: Seems pretty childish, Kyle [H]... (Score:3, Informative)
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I hear you brother.
BTW could I interest you in a USD34.99 coupon for Duke Nukem Forever? It's a once in a lifetime deal.
j'king
Re:0 posts (Score:2, Insightful)
Furthermore it would avoid the ripoff factor of purchasing a game for $80 or whatever and then having to pay a monthly subscription, you could just download it.
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Actually if you were following this early on, they were pretty reasonable at first, seeming to take a "we're curious to see what this company has to offer, but it's hard to get information" sort of tack. They didn't really get bitter and spiteful and start smashing machines with sledgehammers or anything until they started getting vitriolic legal threats from Infinium and public attacks on the Phantom website just for having done their jobs as reporters. I kind of have to say, I can't find this totally unreasonable.
The "hatchet piece" on the CEO you mention was totally legitimate investigative reporting. Was it negative? Yes. But it was also accurate and supported by documentation.
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The same thing can be said about a confidence game too.
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yes it's just a plastic box and a very early prototype.. but what was intresting that IL could gain substantial amounts of money by just showing a pc in a box to potential investors - and here we thought that
though, it would be nice if IL could produce _some_ list of games available at launch... and display their slightly more unique technology parts(like the supposed downloader thingy).
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But this isn't really about t
That's... (Score:2, Informative)
They need to lose the fine horizontal lines.
Or maybe I need to get my eyes tested...
Re:That's... (Score:3, Funny)
Obviously you haven't been to the IT section [slashdot.org] lately...
Re:That's... (Score:4, Funny)
It's called *infants first crap*.
Re:That's... (Score:5, Informative)
You can get rid of it by removing the first part of the URL, like chage games.slashdot.org to slashdot.org.
The following is from another comment to help you in mozilla automatically drop the it. or games. part:
Create New bookmark.
Label something useful - "/. it fix"
In location insert this
javascript:void(location.hostname = "slashdot.org");
Cite for original post (Score:5, Insightful)
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=120887&thre
This trick was originally posted by tqft (619476), but tqft cited Jesse Rudderman (Moz/FF/etc guy) as the original source.
Now if taco (or some outsource programmer in Mumbai) could just get us a nice little "use normal
Re:That's... (Score:3, Informative)
and add it to your acl section. Then whenever your proxy encounters it.slashdot.org/blah, it's rewritten as slashdot.org/blah. You can obviously do this for any section, and you don't need to set up all your web browsers with an ugly javascript hack!
Re:That's... (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, infants' first crap (tm) is green / black. Meconium. Horrible stuff to clean up. It turns that attractive mustard color after a couple of days.
</pedant>
Re:That's... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:That's... (Score:2)
'It' being the newer stuff, not the stuff you had trouble cleaning up, right?
</pedant>
Damn, why does SCO come to mind here?
Re:That's... (Score:5, Funny)
I salute you sir!
From a distance.
In other news (Score:5, Funny)
Not a good week for Infin*.
Anyone got a link that works? The phantom site seems to have disappeared into thin air.
Re:In other news (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In other news (Score:3, Funny)
WhereIsPhantom? (Score:4, Funny)
In case it's slashdoted (Score:4, Funny)
Re:In case it's slashdoted (Score:3, Funny)
Re:In case it's slashdoted (Score:2, Informative)
Re:In case it's slashdoted (Score:2)
Can we just ignore infinium (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't this company/product the original vapor ware. Comments... Even the website is vapor.
Re:Can we just ignore infinium (Score:2, Interesting)
> ware. Comments... Even the website is vapor.
Hmmm, the Infinium Labs website is actually very
well done and professional so I don't know what
you mean by a "vapor" website. But besides that,
could someone explain what the uproar about this
company is about? It seems the "slashdot"
community has had a bug in it's ass about the
company from day one. What gives? I don't know
anything about this company but looking at its
product literture it seems that they have a
Re:Can we just ignore infinium (Score:5, Interesting)
What the hell? Where did you come from? Nice misinformation. Go read some of the evidence in these threads:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/27
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/04
-1 Troll. Mods, this guy made another comment here: http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=122123&
Re:Can we just ignore infinium (Score:2)
Re:Can we just ignore infinium (Score:2, Interesting)
Isn't it odd: someone fighting back when a company threatens to sue them?
Re:Can we just ignore infinium (Score:2)
You assume in your pro-HardOCP frenzy that I'm somehow anti-HardOCP. My remark on their suing in Texas was a neutral observation in response to a posters question, I know Kyle live
Re:Can we just ignore infinium (Score:4, Interesting)
Second, I am not pretending it was factual; it was factual. I did read the article, and I presume you have, too. Does it not bother you that the "company" received mail at a Mailboxes, ETC. type place for 8 months, after securing some $25 million in funding? That when they did claim to get an office, someone checked and it was vacant? Dude, all these things SCREAM scam; factor in the fact that the CEO has a history of such shadiness, and it was a vital piece serving the public interest, not a hatchet piece. I'd hope such activities would always be brought to the attention of people who might think of investing or purchasing something like this.
Third, your remark on suing in Texas was hardly a neutral observation, you made your own assumptions, which you have the right to do, but please, don't call it neutral and insult our intelligence. And that remark didn't make sense anyway - Kyle lives in Texas, Infinium had a business presence in Texas - where the hell should Kyle have files suit? Alabama? I'm in Texas, and if I want to sue Cocacola, I'm doing it right here.
Re:Can we just ignore infinium (Score:2)
I don't think there was ever doubt about them being able to take off the shelf components and slap them inside a custom case. what there is doubt is if their (non showed) subscription based game loading thing is going to fly(and even then how on earth are they going to _make__money_).
Re:Can we just ignore infinium (Score:2)
Re:Can we just ignore Performer Guy? (Score:2)
Re:Can we just ignore infinium (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't this company/product the original vapor ware.
Well, they did send me a promise that they would release Duke Nukem Forever. It was handwritten in the blood of virgins. Strange how it smelled like ketchup though...
Text of article (Score:5, Informative)
Judge Kaplan has ordered Infinium Labs to prudce a series of documents by September 30th. These include:
1) "Documents reflecting the identity and location of potential investors, venture capitalists, investors, partners, shareholders to whom private placement memorandums were provided, or other stake or equity holders in Infinium Labs who are located in the state of Texas other than shareholders that acquired Infinium stock on the public market, and the transactions, proposed or consummated with same."
2) "Pleadings and final judgments from any Court of any Jurisdiction in which Timothy Roberts was or is a Defendant between the dates of August 1, 2001 and February 29, 2004; and; the 2003 Tax Return of Timothy Roberts when filed."
3) "All documents in their possession, custody, or control that evidence, reflect, relate to financial transactions (including any beneficial transaction) between Infinium and Roberts from August 2002 to the present, including but not limited to printouts of all bank, credit card, and other financial transactions currently maintained in electronic form."
4) "All emails sent or received by Infinium's Texas employees."
5) "All year-to-date payroll information and records for 2003-2004 for all of Infinium's Texas employees.
6) "All documents reviewed by Kevin Bachus in preparing the declaration submitted in support of Defendant's motion to dismiss that have not otherwise been produced."
7) "All loan documents between Infinium and Roberts, including but not limited to documents pertaining to the $50,000 loan Roberts testified about in his deposition."
8) "All archival data and all forum postings from Infinium's websites."
9) "A complete and unaltered copy of the 'Who's We' agreement."
10) "All Infinium board of directors minutes and resolutions, with the substance of the resolution redacted unless it pertains to Roberts. Defendants are also ordered to make unredacted copies of its board of directors minutes and resolutions available for inspection by Plaintiffs' counsel at the office of Defendants' counsel. Defendants shall make such documents available for inspection on or before September 30, 2004. If, after inspection, Plaintiffs believe that any redacted portions of these documents should be produced, they may seek appropriate relief from the court."
11) "Plaintiffs' may re-depose Infinium and Roberts, with questioning at the second depositions limited to documents and information not produced to Plaintiffs prior to the first depositions. The combined duration of the first and second depositions shall not exceed seven hours per witness. Additionally, at the option of defendants, the depositions may proceed by telephone... . Plantiffs shall pay the costs of the second depositions and each party shall bear its own attorneys' fees. The second depositions shall be completed by November 5, 2004."
Now, once you've digested all that you'll remember that the court also ruled against KB Networks in some parts. That is actually only one item which is: "Plantiffs' request for sanctions is denied."
Analysis
It appears that HardOCP came away with a large victory. Without the transcriptions from the first depositions, we can only speculate based on subsequent motions on what transpired that day. It's quite obvious that the focus is purely on Tim Roberts and following the extensive money trail that has resulted. Section Six is of interest since it's the only one dealing with Kevin Bachus. What did Bachus say (or not say) during his deposition that piqued the interest of Kyle's lawyers?
We now have mention of a $50,000 loan that Roberts testified to in his deposition. What is the significance of this money? Further, will the production of emails, the old website and payroll be enough to prove Infinium can indeed be rightfully sued in Texas?
In related news.... (Score:4, Funny)
what this is all about. (informative) (Score:3, Informative)
Ok whats the battle about?
stolen from CNN
(CNN) -- A few weeks ago a new game console was unveiled on the Web called Phantom.
Its developer, Infinium Labs, promises it will be the "must-have high performance game console," and that the Phantom will provide "more access to more games of every genre than any competing product," all "with blazing speed."
Six months ago, it was only a rumor among hardcore gamers. In fact, it seemed Phantom was, as the American Heri
Re:what this is all about. (informative) (Score:5, Interesting)
For some reason they tried to sue HIM to take the article down like 4 months later!!! He corrected matters of fact...silly stuff that didn't change any of the article's real information. They tried to drag him to court in Florida...so he "counter" sued in Texas court [where Kyle lives and supposedly they had an office also!] to have a case dismissed... they then preceded to sue him again.
I can't say why this is such a big deal. The only thing I can see is that Roberts appears to be a serial "scammer" [but then 50% of VC seekers are anyway] and it was just too easy a target for Kyle to pass up...and if you read the forums or letters replys, Kyle LOVES a good Flame war! can you say recipe for trouble!!!
Re:what this is all about. (informative) (Score:5, Informative)
In actuality, the address was a Mailboxes Etc mailbox. The vacant storefront just happened to be in the same strip mall, thus the initial confusion.
Another fact that you got wrong is that Kyle didn't counter sue, he sued pre-emptively (justifiably, imo) after receiving various legal threats. Read about it here.
Copied from HardOCP (Score:5, Informative)
HardOCP Vs. Infinium Update:
WhereIsPhantom.com has one of the latest documents filed in our case on-line for you to download and of course gives their thoughts on what IL's lawyers have to say about coverage of the case. To quote the filed motion from IL's attorneys:
Infinium is concerned about the tactics of the Plaintiffs and their lawyers in this case. This case has received an unusual amount of publicity for a case of its type. In fact, Plaintiffs' counsel has issued their own press release announcing the institution of this action and that the Plaintiffs stand behind their negative statements about Infinium and Roberts. Likewise, the plaintiffs run a website called www.hardocp.com wherein they continue to publicize this lawsuit. Additionally, a website has been established called www.whereisphantom.com which "exists for the sole purpose of brining to light as many details as [it] can uncover about Infinium Labs, the lawsuit with KB Networks, and anything else that IL is involved in.
It is my personal opinion that if they did not want this case to be publicized on the Web, they should have not threatened to sue a website multiple times.
Just as a note, all documents that WhereIsPhantom.com posts are a matter of public record. You just have to pay to download them. Sounds like a pretty solid "tactic" to me. Just wait till it gets exciting.
Guess Infinium got what they wanted (Score:4, Funny)
Isn't that what Infinium wanted?
HardOCP Article (Score:5, Informative)
I like [H]ard OCP (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I like [H]ard OCP (Score:2)
A little background please? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A little background please? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A little background please? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:A little background please? (Score:2, Informative)
Understandably Infinium Labs sued [H]ardOCP for slander.
Not so understandably. Actually HardOCP pre-empted Infineum by filing for a declaratory judgment. Infinium is thus in an ugly position of having things they have been trying to gloss over proved in court. Tim Roberts must be a SCO-quality knucklehead. This is a lawsuit he didn't need to be involved in.
Re:A little background please? (Score:2, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:NO, NO, NO (Score:3, Insightful)
What is amazing? Infinium threatened legal action, and HardOCP responded in kind. This is what you should expect if you threaten to sue someone. Mmmkay?
Re:A little background please? (Score:5, Informative)
The article did some probing into the company, and some of their claims, such as the history of the president of Infinium.
Infinium stated they would sue HardOCP over the letter, and sent e-mail to tell HardOCP to change or remove parts of the article [hardocp.com]. HardOCP didn't cave, and so, there was a lawsuit, and now it's progressed to this (which isn't really a win).
Re:A little background please? (Score:4, Informative)
I can't remember what HOCP was suing them back for, though.
Re:A little background please? (Score:3, Informative)
Past slashdot articles. (Score:5, Informative)
I guess it's too late (Score:2, Interesting)
Who did what to who in the what now? (Score:5, Insightful)
There are people on this forum with a great deal of different backgrounds that may not always be familiar with the names, companies, and situations involved in stories that might interest a causal reader, without him or her having to dig up research just to know what the story is even about.
Re:Who did what to who in the what now? (Score:2, Informative)
Excellent news (Score:5, Insightful)
Kudos also to HardOCP for not running scared when faced with legal threats. If more of the "little guys" were able to stand strong against frivolous or iffy strong-armed legal challenges, the world might not be perfect but we'd be headed in a better direction.
Re:Excellent news (Score:3, Informative)
While it is a victory for truth, it's a pretty small one, as it is hardly a case of David v. Goliath. Indeed, I suspect the whole matter is primarily an ego thing for HardOCP, having gained some insight into the personality of the owner after an e-ma
Look! Signs of a computer! (Score:2)
-Foxxz
Re:Look! Signs of a computer! (Score:2, Funny)
-Foxxz
Shouldn't it be... (Score:2)
Infinium wants to be on the ASE... (Score:5, Interesting)
The ultimate evil plan against the Phantom (Score:5, Interesting)
1. get a linux system together with some good hardware. Make it mini-itx
2. Take out all non-game-console-specific stuff out. Make it a small distro
3. Buy a game controller from the store, get drivers working for it
4. Setup some crude kiosk frontend that might be what the Phantom would have
5. Install MAME on it or something and pretend the arcade ROMs ae the games Phantom would be selling(this is just an example)
6. Put a fancy plastic case around it.
Then realize you have some crude implmentation of what might have been a Phantom console, only for the cost of hardware, and people's free time to slap together a fancy front end with a Linux engine(not unlike TiVo)
7. wait for lawsuits from Infinium labs to roll in saying you copied their idea
8. brag about it on here and HardOCP. They have a plastic box and hype, you have a somewhat crude , working implementation of what they have promised, but never delivered.
Whee
Boilerroom (Score:2, Interesting)
Has infinium turned into one of those fake boilerroom companies, with some people trying to cash out real quick?
Re:Boilerroom (Score:3, Informative)
pretty obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
CB
Phantom Launch Title (Score:4, Funny)
It's like a modern-day "which came first?"
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's my two cents... (Score:4, Interesting)
However, the online gaming community took notice and started asking real questions, e.g., where is an actual product? What companies will actually be writing games? Etc.
Suddenly Roberts had to prove to the investors, and to future investors that the console was real, so he was forced to hire Kevin Bachus, former Microsoft Xbox employee. And worse of all for Roberts, he was actually forced to create a real product.
Now that the online gaming community has put Roberts in a spotlight, he is no longer free to lurk in the dark. Now he's forced to either admit it was a scam or to go forward and fail with an asinine business plan. Mmmm... I wonder what he'll do?!
Amusing dead-account message (Score:3, Funny)
Link to the orginal HardOCP article (Score:3, Interesting)
Link to Original HardOCP article [hardocp.com]
This looks a good piece of investigative journalism by a website. Kudos to them for providing the public an unbiased set of facts.
Re:HardOCP Disingenuous? (Score:5, Insightful)
originally the unit was "demo'd" nearly 2 years ago...it was nearly 1 year of vapor before kyle ripped on it...and the guy hawking it is still getting VC funding!!! WTF It's a failed business right from the start...any /.r would recognize that from the start... but when a pro starts hawking "computer", "broadband", "pay per play", "Secure" and such terms the VCs still see the $$ no matter how logic seems to fail the situation!!
Re:HardOCP Disingenuous? (Score:3, Insightful)
have adopted someting of a Luddite mentality. It
is people such as yourself which impede technical
progress. Subscription based software delivery
via high-speed data pipes *is* the future.
I doubt there are any true "Luddites" on slashdot. Opposing some kinds of technology does not make you a Luddite. Opposing all kinds of technology does. There are very few technological things that
Re:Poof (Score:3, Informative)