Demo PS3 Units freeze on Purpose 363
AbsoluteZero writes "A Sony rep has claimed to Destructoid that demo PS3 units in kiosks across the country were built to freeze up on purpose. From the article: "We do that so that people won't play it all day long," he explained. "Specifically during Motorstorm, we made it freeze up a lot.""
right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's what the short 5 minute demos are for. Actually making the console freeze up is just stupid, it screams unstable. This sounds more like backpedaling to cover up design flaws.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Informative)
There were other game systems to play and my wife was tugging at my arm telling me to get going
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Funny)
Then you got a defective system. You may want to send it back so they can add the freeze software in.
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Maybe what we really need to bring back is games that take up less than a megabyte of storage. They'd look really good and load really fast, but all you'd see is the hero's eyeball.
TW
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Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually FFXIIs load times are probably the best on the system. They seem to have taken a hint from many other games, including Metroid Prime, and do a preload of adjacent rooms while the processor is free, and also keeps the previous room in the buffer (monsters appear at the door if you go back and forth). You want ass load times? Try Suikoden V, great game, but each new area can be as short as one hallway wide, and the load time is always between 8-15secs. Probably just as bad is Dragon Quest 8, another great game, but it has a 5-10sec load every time you bring up the menu screen, and then another 5-10secs when you go into various alternate sections of the menu system, and then another 5-10secs to get back to the game.
It's really not so much the system's capability that defines load times, but how good the game is designed to accomidate for them. There's no question that the GameCube is far faster at retrieving data off the disc, but a lot of the faster speeds you're seeing are due to suggestions/requirements by Nintendo as to how to compansate for loading. Metroid Prime is a great example: large complex rooms are separated by small, simple corridors in which the processor has extra time to load the next room into memory. This way, the game never stops, the player is always doing SOMETHING, and furthermore, it helps to broaden out the level areas, and give some variety in room size and makeup. Many times these corridors are also sparcely populated, or include hidden power pickups as well. Also, since adjacent rooms load in the background, the game is always ready for where the player is going to be. The result is a game that never stops, and the maximum wait time for openning a door is something like 2-3secs tops if you've rushed through a large room before the processor had a chance to finish preloading the adjacent room.
FF12 did some of this by preloading adjacent rooms... it's one of the first games I've seen on the PS2 that does this, and it resulted in one of the fastest loading games on the system. Most RPGs on the PS2 are absolutely aweful in loadtimes: Xenosaga, Suikoden V, Dragon Quest, Star Ocean, Wild Arms 4, all obnoxious load times (and some obnoxious games, but I won't go there).
BTW: fuck HDs, why not simply have a gig onboard cache that would be used to store all possible data that will be needed in the next 20 seconds (like adjacent rooms or areas). That can practically be done now, but many programmers are too lazy to do anything with it... there is just no excuse for not doing things like this in Suikoden V and Dragon Quest.
This is probably the number 1 reason I like about Nintendo, beyond their high quality hardware and software, they have high standards about how clean games must be before they run on their systems. They realize that every game that goes out on their systems reflects on their image, and they take it upon themselves to make sure developers don't screw it up. Sony seem to project an image of non-involvement when it comes to their systems... as long as the developers pay their licensing fees and don't inherently crash the system every 5 minutes, they can do whatever they want. It's like the difference between Apple and Microsoft in terms of interface design, but that's a different post altogether.
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While I agree that content trumps loading times, significant load times can substantially mar an otherwise exceptional gaming experience. If the game's goal is immersion (which is most games), significant loading can jolt you out of the experience. Suikoden V could have competed in the "game of the year" catagory, but its load times significantly altered the gameplay experience: you didn't feel the desire to walk around and explore quite so much, all you wanted to do was get to the next place and get the lo
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Insightful)
A kiosk is supposed to be hands-off for employees. Requiring a employee-managed kiosk is a bad idea.
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90 minutes at Best Buy? I wish I was on your Christmas list. I got an oven mitt and a polo shirt that was too big for me
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Funny)
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The worst part is that retail security has arguably the most 'power' over other, legally. Otherwise there isn't anything tha
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Insightful)
Shopkeeper's Privlege (Score:5, Informative)
As a law student, I'll certify to the limits of my knowledge of the issues that wikipedia is a good source for getting "a sense" of the law. Here's a good example. The shopkeeper's privlege is NOT statutory, it is part of the common-law tradition which is used in almost the entire United States (I believe Louisiana is on purely statutory system, but I'm not stopping to check, so don't quote me on that).
From the Article:
Since the guard would have the legal right to retain your presence under reasonable circumstances (can't gang tackle you on your way out) if you respond by threatening violence, you are subject to a suit for: (dun dun duh dun!) Common Assault.
A quick guide to tortious assualt can be found - Here [wikipedia.org]
As a note to the officer above, these are both tortious acts, not criminal - hence no requirement for a statute. They can be governed by common law which is more permissive and allows (broad brush stroke here) only cash damages.
-GiH
The previous statements are nuance deprived - see your lawyer for details.
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Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Funny)
They've had demos that automatically return to the main menu back in the PlayStation 1 days.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Insightful)
The poster I was replying to said someone was going to get fired over this "decision", so I was pointing out that if they actually thought the console was freezing by design, he was being fooled. That is, after all, why this story made it to Slashdot. It is a ridiculous claim, and it was posted for us to laugh at how stupid this Sony rep is. The very idea that Sony would have designed the demo kiosks to freeze up in order to limit play-time is silly.
Are we on the same page here?
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Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, you're quite wrong here. Employee-managed (and operated, with the employee being the subject of display) kiosks are quite important and successful branch of the sexual entertainment industry.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Funny)
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If they truly wanted it to freeze they would have a reset button outside of the case. I believe the Xbox 360 kiosks came with that.
I have no doubt the PS3s freeze. To date, there are only two unfrozen units that I've seen since launch, out of maybe 20 total. One has actually had the same screen for over two wee
Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Who is the guy that wrote this piece? Is it even true? The story just sounds made up.
Or is it just that people want to justify their hate for the PS3 so much that facts and logic goes out the window?
Seriously, who is Mr. Nick Brutal?
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They aren't getting PS3s.
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Insightful)
A retail level representative is essentially just a sales person with little or no technical understanding of what they're selling. When a representative is asked a question they're always supposed to spout the company line when they can, and always make every answer positive for Sony. Being that Sony probably hasn't come up with a company line for why the PS3 keeps freezing a (dumb) representative spouted that "They were designed to do that."
Developer/Publisher level representatives are (usually) far better informed and far more honest.
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:4, Interesting)
These days work is a bit slow and I spend a lot of time on
Say what you will about the PS3, I had high hopes for it to at least open people up to Linux in a small way, if not by way of an alternate OS, then by way of running MythTV etc.
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, as for why this is on Slashdot
The fact is that over the past 18 months Sony has alienated a large portion of their loyal userbase and their potential userbase; personally, Sony lost me before that but that is another story. A year and a half ago the PS3 was the system everyone wanted, the XBox 360 was an overly expensive console produced by an evil coporation, and the Revolution was exciting to Nintendo fans with massive disinterest for everyone else; today the PS3 is an overly expensive console produced by an evil coporation, the XBox 360 is exciting to XBox fans with massive disinterest for everyone else, and the Wii is the system everyone wants.
Basically, Sony burned a lot of bridges and people want to hear negative stories about the PS3 because they hate Sony.
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:4, Informative)
It's not a bash on Sony or their hardware. The crux of the story is: PS3 retail kiosks lock/freeze/whatever up, a Sony rep played it off as something that happens on purpose, it's been confirmed by a few people that they were told the same thing. That is fact. Question my credibility if you'd like, but I think you'll find Destructoid (as a whole) to be both informative and reliable -- I wouldn't intentionally write and post a tall tale for the sake of hits (or anything else for that matter).
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be like me talking to a clerk at the Best Buy who says he's pretty sure Sony is going to ship a million PS3s on New Years day. Then I go ahead and write a story saying that "Best Buy says" a million units will show up and people should start camping out in line.
Why would this guy know? Why should I trust him? Why don't I confirm with a more authoritative source? Why on earth would I report it as the position of the company rather than random gossip from "some dude".
HELLO, he's just a sales rep! He's not a spokesman, an engineer, and he doesn't work in shipping. At best, he heard something from someone else and at worst he's making it up. If you believe the latter is not the case, then you should at least have the sense to check with the guy he heard if from before reporting it as the actual policy of the company.
TW
Oh, BTW, some guy who was giving away free Linux disks told me that Linux doesn't have good open source ATI drivers on purpose, because they want people writing code instead of playing video games. Do you think I should submit that to
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Funny)
I could imagine sales drones for other companies making the same excuse:
Wiimote: "It's a boomerang; throw it a little harder and it will return."
X-Box 360 power supply: "That's the integrated space heater."
Laptop batteries: "That's part of the force feedback system."
Pentium floating-point error: "That's to make sure you check your calculations by hand, like you're supposed to."
The Titanic: "In the event of a collision, the water cooling system kicks in."
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Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Console kiosks have had a solution to the "hog-the-machine" problem for ages - there's a timer inside the kiosk that power-cycles the console every 20 minutes or so.
I fail to see why Sony would pass up that solution for this "solution." Resetting the kiosk every few minutes requires no human intervention - the brat's trying to get to level 42 while other people are waiting, and the system restarts like clockwork after 20 minutes. You don't have to have a clerk there to reset the machine, you don't make
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to work at EB. We had display kiosks of all the major consoles. The various vendors each had their own method to keep people from playing on the kiosks all day... I remember the XBox demo discs we ran in the kiosk all re-set back to the main menu every 10 minutes or so. The PlayStation 2 kiosk had some sort of timer that would interrupt the power and force the console to hard reset every 20 minutes or so. The GameCube demo discs generally just had very small snippets of gameplay...less than a single full level... The GameCube kiosk never forced a re-set of any kind, but there just wasn't that much to occupy your time on it.
If Sony was, in fact, concerned about people playing on the kiosk all day long there are plenty of ways they could have re-set or rebooted the system that didn't require employee intervention. These machines aren't rebooting, they're locking up, and it requires an employee to physically re-set the system. That, to me, screams of poor design. Either it's a poorly designed re-set system that doesn't work as it should...or it's broken software that isn't actually supposed to be locking up. It isn't terribly encouraging either way.
Of course... (Score:5, Insightful)
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FUD (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sony for MVP (Score:5, Funny)
Sure, whatever (Score:5, Funny)
Fixed link (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.destructoid.com/playstation-3-kiosks-f
This isn't some high up exec... (Score:5, Interesting)
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What if it was the same rep? (Score:3, Insightful)
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What's interesting is that the store clerk decided to just turn off the system rather than deal with repeated freeze ups all day long. I'd be more interested in an article about how often something like that happens. Is it just a bum unit or demo disk or is it a more widespread problem?
Re:This isn't some high up exec... (Score:4, Informative)
Seriously, it was a random rep, in a random EB games. Reps lie, that is all they do. Anythign a rep says is a lie. Remember this and you will be much better off. (I will admit, this is all simply personal experiance in working in retail, and I am including sales staff ofr retail stores as reps. They all lie also.)
Re:This isn't some high up exec... (Score:5, Insightful)
So far, I have been to three different stores and seen the demo console frozen at each one of those stores with nobody bothering to reset them. (Meanwhile, I was able to try out the Wii at my local EB with them letting customers check out the Wiimote with their driver's license.)
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And we all love you for saying so.
Now THAT was a lie.
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I think it was a random Best Buy, but yeah. It seems that Slashdot needs to bash Sony so much they're reporting on a bloggers word of mouth with a sales rep. at a some random Best Buy as front pag
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More to the point, the author probably got the quote from his local Best Buy, in the same area as the EB Games. So I'd bet they were serviced by the same representative for the area.
Plus, let's be honest - most people who aren't knowledgeable in a certain area do
Enough for anybody (Score:2, Funny)
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Ah, good explanation for the BSOD as well (Score:4, Insightful)
As a comparison: Windows crashes on us all the time as to not let us be too productive! I get it now! What the hell do I need a *nix clone for!
</sarcasm>
Natch. Sounds more like a save-my-ass excuse. Way to go Sony!
Pee Wee Herman (Score:2)
thats not what best buy told me... (Score:4, Informative)
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The demo unit in the store is generally the only time people have the opportunity to see and interact with the real product before making a purchase. If that unit leaves a bad impression by freezing, that's more than likely a lost sale. The idea that Sony woul
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Of course you're a "fan boy". How else are you keeping your PS3 cool other than fanning it?
Sorry, sorry. Couldn't resist.
Poor Sony (Score:2, Interesting)
My brother had two new toys over Christmas. The first was a PS3 which he bought so he could resell it on eBay, with a couple of rented games. The second was one of those $5 Burger King games for the original XBox. Guess which one we played all weekend? It's hard to exaggerate just how much Sony is screwed.
OTOH (Score:5, Interesting)
I assumed it was a case of overheat
Also this weekend, I brought my Wii to my brother's place to show it off, only to discover he'd just scored a PS3
After a couple of hours of side by side comparison, his wife asked him why he didn't get a Wii instead.
Ouch.
(I also regret not having videotaped our gaming session, as my bro's wife lost her balance and dove headfirst during a bowling throw, almost going through the widescreen tv)
Re:OTOH (Score:4, Funny)
Had she gone through the TV screen, she could sue Nintendo for not including bungie cords with the game!
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Re:OTOH (Score:4, Interesting)
On the night of the Wii launch, I walked into my local gaming store about 10 minutes before midnight to pick up my pre-ordered console. As I stood in line, the manager (who was busy preparing people's Wii bundles so they would be ready when the clock struck midnight) asked one of the employees to reset the PS3, which was in the middle of a demo movie, annoyingly blaring music. The employee walked over to the kiosk, and opened a latch, and the front of the kiosk swung open to reveal a second PS3 sitting in a metal housing below the plastic display case. He pressed a button on the PS3 in the metal housing, and the screen returned to the PS3 menu. The manager explained that the PS3 you see in the plastic case is just an empty shell, in case someone tries to steal it. The real PS3 is in that metal housing.
I don't remember if the metal housing had vents, but I doubt the PS3 is overheating. So far, there have been no reports of PS3's overheating (which may be due to the massive shortage), and it wouldn't surprise me that Sony expects employees to babysit their precious PS3 kiosks.
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The 360 runs on pretty hot as is and lots of people have reported overheating issues with 360's
Zap! (Score:5, Informative)
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Microsoft might try an excuse like that..... (Score:3, Funny)
Hasn't this been done before? (Score:3, Interesting)
I had always figured that there was an extra mechanism built into the demo console for just that purpose: keeping someone from monopolizing the thing. Doesn't seem like THAT much of a stretch that the PS3s would perhaps do the same?
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Auto rebooting after 5 mins is an ok idea. Ok, not great.
Locking up so that a clerk has to come over, unlock the disply, reset it, and fire it up for the next customer, is bloody stupid.
An actual idea?
DEMOS!
You want to showcase your nifty new games on your nifty new console? Have one of your pogramers make you a friken demo, containing one level (or what ever, we KNOW how to make demos now, don't we?) of the actual retail
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Freez up on Purpose? (Score:2, Interesting)
What a load of crap.
It's a matter of time before there is a tech note, and a kiosk upgrade kit designed to ventilate the kiosk.
One of the Best Buys in town has not had their PS3 kiosk (According to a friend that works at that location) freeze at all, and he was told the other location froze randomly from 6 to 12 times a day. That isn't a designed in effect. A designed in effect occurs every x minutes, and does not require employee intervention.
PS3 runs real hot (Score:4, Interesting)
My PS3 froze during the system setup phase (kinda scared the shit out of me). But it hasn't froze since (even with yellow dog linux 5.0 on it)
MrJynx
Business Strategy (Score:2, Funny)
Me too! (Score:2)
this is old news (Score:5, Funny)
Re:this is old news (Score:4, Funny)
The Future (Score:2, Insightful)
And I Wonder... (Score:2)
I call BS. (Score:2, Insightful)
You think that a Sony Representative is going to go to your local EB store and vacuum your local kiosk? Don't make me laugh!
This is rabid fanboyism, and a further proof of Slashdot's slant.
News for nerds? BS too. This is news reporting on par with Fox's.
Using a PS3 Shouldn't Stop You From Wanting One (Score:2, Insightful)
Sony Lies (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sony Lies (Score:4, Insightful)
this would be a support nightmare. (Score:2)
What happens when demo units end up getting sold to customers? It happens eventually.
Then all those defective units will be out there, and customers will want support for them.
I can't imagine pushing a firmware fix if the unit is unstable through the fault of software, either. It might freeze during load, and brick.
Really, though, I think the guy just lied or was being sarcastic.
When I read about Sony, I find it helpful... (Score:4, Funny)
Breach of patent (Score:3, Funny)
Read the article. It's clerks at a random retailer (Score:4, Interesting)
This is a story about a dumb retail clerk spouting off garbage to sound smart. If I had a nickel for every time this happened to me, I'd be wearing an italian-designed suit made of Euros anddriving a SUV made from US dollars.
The PS3 has some manufacturing defects. Holy crap, shock, and fear. New hardware has defects. This has happened before, it has happened again. If you're concerned about the PS3's future stability, look to updated and replaced Xbox 360s, which are now quite stable.
One thing I have noticed though. Lots of people tell me their PS3 "locks up a lot". But examining the physical location of their unit, it's in an entertainment center with no airflow. Both the PS3 manual and the Xbox 360 manual clearly said you needed some space around the machines and to make sure there is airflow. The machine heats up, it breaks. Same as any other computer. Once they move it out, they generally experience fewer problems. I'm 3/3 on this. Not that it's an excuse or something you can generally extrapolate from, but it's something to consider.
Re:credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't doubt that they might be speaking the truth? Are you serious?
What in heavens name has Sony done to instill such deep trust in you?
There's exactly NO chance that they made their demo product unstable and prone to crashing to keep people from playing it for too long.
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Re:SNES Kiosks (Score:2)
There were plenty of other kiosks that did similar things or had similar features to get the next in line a chance.
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Yeah, pretty much all game system in-store demos have done this. I think the difference here is that the PS3's are actually freezing up, not resetting, requiring an employee to wander over and reset the system. Too bad they don't just have a little push button connected to the reset button, like the old NES in-store demos had...
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I was just there last week and the Babbages sign is *still* up. I guess the manager either is having a hard time getting ahold of an actual GameStop sign, or feels nostalgic about the name and thus has never touched it.
This is the same store I bought my very first CD-ROM drive in back in 1994. Oddly enough, they had the best price on the Creative Labs OmniCD kit. 2X speed baby!
-Zorin, done reminiscing
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Give me a break. Who gives a rat's ass about accurate shadows on a $500 console? My *video* card cost that much and the shadows in Battlefield 2 are *still* inaccurate. But that didn't make me say, wtf did I spend $500 on a video card...
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