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Demo PS3 Units freeze on Purpose
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:22 AM
from the stay-off-my-kiosks-kid dept.
from the stay-off-my-kiosks-kid dept.
AbsoluteZero writes "A Sony rep has claimed to Destructoid that demo PS3 units in kiosks across the country were built to freeze up on purpose. From the article: "We do that so that people won't play it all day long," he explained. "Specifically during Motorstorm, we made it freeze up a lot.""
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Demo PS3 Units freeze on Purpose
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right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Tuesday February 06 2007, @09:13AM)
That's what the short 5 minute demos are for. Actually making the console freeze up is just stupid, it screams unstable. This sounds more like backpedaling to cover up design flaws.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.lazylightning.org/)
There were other game systems to play and my wife was tugging at my arm telling me to get going
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.ericbarker.com/ | Last Journal: Wednesday October 10, @08:43PM)
Actually FFXIIs load times are probably the best on the system. They seem to have taken a hint from many other games, including Metroid Prime, and do a preload of adjacent rooms while the processor is free, and also keeps the previous room in the buffer (monsters appear at the door if you go back and forth). You want ass load times? Try Suikoden V, great game, but each new area can be as short as one hallway wide, and the load time is always between 8-15secs. Probably just as bad is Dragon Quest 8, another great game, but it has a 5-10sec load every time you bring up the menu screen, and then another 5-10secs when you go into various alternate sections of the menu system, and then another 5-10secs to get back to the game.
It's really not so much the system's capability that defines load times, but how good the game is designed to accomidate for them. There's no question that the GameCube is far faster at retrieving data off the disc, but a lot of the faster speeds you're seeing are due to suggestions/requirements by Nintendo as to how to compansate for loading. Metroid Prime is a great example: large complex rooms are separated by small, simple corridors in which the processor has extra time to load the next room into memory. This way, the game never stops, the player is always doing SOMETHING, and furthermore, it helps to broaden out the level areas, and give some variety in room size and makeup. Many times these corridors are also sparcely populated, or include hidden power pickups as well. Also, since adjacent rooms load in the background, the game is always ready for where the player is going to be. The result is a game that never stops, and the maximum wait time for openning a door is something like 2-3secs tops if you've rushed through a large room before the processor had a chance to finish preloading the adjacent room.
FF12 did some of this by preloading adjacent rooms... it's one of the first games I've seen on the PS2 that does this, and it resulted in one of the fastest loading games on the system. Most RPGs on the PS2 are absolutely aweful in loadtimes: Xenosaga, Suikoden V, Dragon Quest, Star Ocean, Wild Arms 4, all obnoxious load times (and some obnoxious games, but I won't go there).
BTW: fuck HDs, why not simply have a gig onboard cache that would be used to store all possible data that will be needed in the next 20 seconds (like adjacent rooms or areas). That can practically be done now, but many programmers are too lazy to do anything with it... there is just no excuse for not doing things like this in Suikoden V and Dragon Quest.
This is probably the number 1 reason I like about Nintendo, beyond their high quality hardware and software, they have high standards about how clean games must be before they run on their systems. They realize that every game that goes out on their systems reflects on their image, and they take it upon themselves to make sure developers don't screw it up. Sony seem to project an image of non-involvement when it comes to their systems... as long as the developers pay their licensing fees and don't inherently crash the system every 5 minutes, they can do whatever they want. It's like the difference between Apple and Microsoft in terms of interface design, but that's a different post altogether.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Funny)
(http://xybapodcast.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Friday December 08 2006, @10:06AM)
Then you got a defective system. You may want to send it back so they can add the freeze software in.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Insightful)
A kiosk is supposed to be hands-off for employees. Requiring a employee-managed kiosk is a bad idea.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.lbcpc.com/ | Last Journal: Wednesday November 12 2003, @05:30PM)
Shopkeeper's Privlege (Score:5, Informative)
(http://slashdot.org/~GodInHell/journal/)
As a law student, I'll certify to the limits of my knowledge of the issues that wikipedia is a good source for getting "a sense" of the law. Here's a good example. The shopkeeper's privlege is NOT statutory, it is part of the common-law tradition which is used in almost the entire United States (I believe Louisiana is on purely statutory system, but I'm not stopping to check, so don't quote me on that).
From the Article:
Since the guard would have the legal right to retain your presence under reasonable circumstances (can't gang tackle you on your way out) if you respond by threatening violence, you are subject to a suit for: (dun dun duh dun!) Common Assault.
A quick guide to tortious assualt can be found - Here [wikipedia.org]
As a note to the officer above, these are both tortious acts, not criminal - hence no requirement for a statute. They can be governed by common law which is more permissive and allows (broad brush stroke here) only cash damages.
-GiH
The previous statements are nuance deprived - see your lawyer for details.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Funny)
(http://figz.com/)
They've had demos that automatically return to the main menu back in the PlayStation 1 days.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://figz.com/)
The poster I was replying to said someone was going to get fired over this "decision", so I was pointing out that if they actually thought the console was freezing by design, he was being fooled. That is, after all, why this story made it to Slashdot. It is a ridiculous claim, and it was posted for us to laugh at how stupid this Sony rep is. The very idea that Sony would have designed the demo kiosks to freeze up in order to limit play-time is silly.
Are we on the same page here?
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Funny)
(Last Journal: Wednesday August 18 2004, @07:52AM)
Oh, you're quite wrong here. Employee-managed (and operated, with the employee being the subject of display) kiosks are quite important and successful branch of the sexual entertainment industry.
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Funny)
(http://thuktun.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday April 21 2005, @11:45AM)
Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Who is the guy that wrote this piece? Is it even true? The story just sounds made up.
Or is it just that people want to justify their hate for the PS3 so much that facts and logic goes out the window?
Seriously, who is Mr. Nick Brutal?
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Insightful)
A retail level representative is essentially just a sales person with little or no technical understanding of what they're selling. When a representative is asked a question they're always supposed to spout the company line when they can, and always make every answer positive for Sony. Being that Sony probably hasn't come up with a company line for why the PS3 keeps freezing a (dumb) representative spouted that "They were designed to do that."
Developer/Publisher level representatives are (usually) far better informed and far more honest.
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:4, Interesting)
These days work is a bit slow and I spend a lot of time on
Say what you will about the PS3, I had high hopes for it to at least open people up to Linux in a small way, if not by way of an alternate OS, then by way of running MythTV etc.
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, as for why this is on Slashdot
The fact is that over the past 18 months Sony has alienated a large portion of their loyal userbase and their potential userbase; personally, Sony lost me before that but that is another story. A year and a half ago the PS3 was the system everyone wanted, the XBox 360 was an overly expensive console produced by an evil coporation, and the Revolution was exciting to Nintendo fans with massive disinterest for everyone else; today the PS3 is an overly expensive console produced by an evil coporation, the XBox 360 is exciting to XBox fans with massive disinterest for everyone else, and the Wii is the system everyone wants.
Basically, Sony burned a lot of bridges and people want to hear negative stories about the PS3 because they hate Sony.
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:4, Informative)
It's not a bash on Sony or their hardware. The crux of the story is: PS3 retail kiosks lock/freeze/whatever up, a Sony rep played it off as something that happens on purpose, it's been confirmed by a few people that they were told the same thing. That is fact. Question my credibility if you'd like, but I think you'll find Destructoid (as a whole) to be both informative and reliable -- I wouldn't intentionally write and post a tall tale for the sake of hits (or anything else for that matter).
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Insightful)
It would be like me talking to a clerk at the Best Buy who says he's pretty sure Sony is going to ship a million PS3s on New Years day. Then I go ahead and write a story saying that "Best Buy says" a million units will show up and people should start camping out in line.
Why would this guy know? Why should I trust him? Why don't I confirm with a more authoritative source? Why on earth would I report it as the position of the company rather than random gossip from "some dude".
HELLO, he's just a sales rep! He's not a spokesman, an engineer, and he doesn't work in shipping. At best, he heard something from someone else and at worst he's making it up. If you believe the latter is not the case, then you should at least have the sense to check with the guy he heard if from before reporting it as the actual policy of the company.
TW
Oh, BTW, some guy who was giving away free Linux disks told me that Linux doesn't have good open source ATI drivers on purpose, because they want people writing code instead of playing video games. Do you think I should submit that to
Re:Maybe someone can tell me.... (Score:5, Funny)
I could imagine sales drones for other companies making the same excuse:
Wiimote: "It's a boomerang; throw it a little harder and it will return."
X-Box 360 power supply: "That's the integrated space heater."
Laptop batteries: "That's part of the force feedback system."
Pentium floating-point error: "That's to make sure you check your calculations by hand, like you're supposed to."
The Titanic: "In the event of a collision, the water cooling system kicks in."
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.shadowmage.org/)
Re:right... I'll buy that bridge... (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://chris.sartoris.org/)
I used to work at EB. We had display kiosks of all the major consoles. The various vendors each had their own method to keep people from playing on the kiosks all day... I remember the XBox demo discs we ran in the kiosk all re-set back to the main menu every 10 minutes or so. The PlayStation 2 kiosk had some sort of timer that would interrupt the power and force the console to hard reset every 20 minutes or so. The GameCube demo discs generally just had very small snippets of gameplay...less than a single full level... The GameCube kiosk never forced a re-set of any kind, but there just wasn't that much to occupy your time on it.
If Sony was, in fact, concerned about people playing on the kiosk all day long there are plenty of ways they could have re-set or rebooted the system that didn't require employee intervention. These machines aren't rebooting, they're locking up, and it requires an employee to physically re-set the system. That, to me, screams of poor design. Either it's a poorly designed re-set system that doesn't work as it should...or it's broken software that isn't actually supposed to be locking up. It isn't terribly encouraging either way.
Of course... (Score:5, Insightful)
FUD (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't doubt that they might be speaking the truth? Are you serious?
What in heavens name has Sony done to instill such deep trust in you?
There's exactly NO chance that they made their demo product unstable and prone to crashing to keep people from playing it for too long.
Sony for MVP (Score:5, Funny)
Sure, whatever (Score:5, Funny)
Fixed link (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.destructoid.com/playstation-3-kiosks-f
This isn't some high up exec... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This isn't some high up exec... (Score:4, Informative)
Seriously, it was a random rep, in a random EB games. Reps lie, that is all they do. Anythign a rep says is a lie. Remember this and you will be much better off. (I will admit, this is all simply personal experiance in working in retail, and I am including sales staff ofr retail stores as reps. They all lie also.)
Re:This isn't some high up exec... (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://justinpedia.com/ | Last Journal: Saturday August 18 2001, @12:45AM)
So far, I have been to three different stores and seen the demo console frozen at each one of those stores with nobody bothering to reset them. (Meanwhile, I was able to try out the Wii at my local EB with them letting customers check out the Wiimote with their driver's license.)
Ah, good explanation for the BSOD as well (Score:4, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Saturday May 31 2003, @11:19AM)
As a comparison: Windows crashes on us all the time as to not let us be too productive! I get it now! What the hell do I need a *nix clone for!
</sarcasm>
Natch. Sounds more like a save-my-ass excuse. Way to go Sony!
thats not what best buy told me... (Score:4, Informative)
OTOH (Score:5, Interesting)
I assumed it was a case of overheat
Also this weekend, I brought my Wii to my brother's place to show it off, only to discover he'd just scored a PS3
After a couple of hours of side by side comparison, his wife asked him why he didn't get a Wii instead.
Ouch.
(I also regret not having videotaped our gaming session, as my bro's wife lost her balance and dove headfirst during a bowling throw, almost going through the widescreen tv)
Re:OTOH (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.microsoft...r/facts/default.mspx)
Had she gone through the TV screen, she could sue Nintendo for not including bungie cords with the game!
Re:OTOH (Score:4, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Sunday April 02 2006, @12:57AM)
On the night of the Wii launch, I walked into my local gaming store about 10 minutes before midnight to pick up my pre-ordered console. As I stood in line, the manager (who was busy preparing people's Wii bundles so they would be ready when the clock struck midnight) asked one of the employees to reset the PS3, which was in the middle of a demo movie, annoyingly blaring music. The employee walked over to the kiosk, and opened a latch, and the front of the kiosk swung open to reveal a second PS3 sitting in a metal housing below the plastic display case. He pressed a button on the PS3 in the metal housing, and the screen returned to the PS3 menu. The manager explained that the PS3 you see in the plastic case is just an empty shell, in case someone tries to steal it. The real PS3 is in that metal housing.
I don't remember if the metal housing had vents, but I doubt the PS3 is overheating. So far, there have been no reports of PS3's overheating (which may be due to the massive shortage), and it wouldn't surprise me that Sony expects employees to babysit their precious PS3 kiosks.
Zap! (Score:5, Informative)
(http://robvincent.net/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 09, @01:55PM)
Microsoft might try an excuse like that..... (Score:3, Funny)
Hasn't this been done before? (Score:3, Interesting)
I had always figured that there was an extra mechanism built into the demo console for just that purpose: keeping someone from monopolizing the thing. Doesn't seem like THAT much of a stretch that the PS3s would perhaps do the same?
PS3 runs real hot (Score:4, Interesting)
My PS3 froze during the system setup phase (kinda scared the shit out of me). But it hasn't froze since (even with yellow dog linux 5.0 on it)
MrJynx
this is old news (Score:5, Funny)
Re:this is old news (Score:4, Funny)
Sony Lies (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://www.shezphoto.com/)
Re:Sony Lies (Score:4, Insightful)
When I read about Sony, I find it helpful... (Score:4, Funny)
(http://slackerrevolution.com/)
Breach of patent (Score:3, Funny)
(http://www.loconet.ca/)
Read the article. It's clerks at a random retailer (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://kirindave.tumblr.com/ | Last Journal: Friday December 19 2003, @01:35PM)
This is a story about a dumb retail clerk spouting off garbage to sound smart. If I had a nickel for every time this happened to me, I'd be wearing an italian-designed suit made of Euros anddriving a SUV made from US dollars.
The PS3 has some manufacturing defects. Holy crap, shock, and fear. New hardware has defects. This has happened before, it has happened again. If you're concerned about the PS3's future stability, look to updated and replaced Xbox 360s, which are now quite stable.
One thing I have noticed though. Lots of people tell me their PS3 "locks up a lot". But examining the physical location of their unit, it's in an entertainment center with no airflow. Both the PS3 manual and the Xbox 360 manual clearly said you needed some space around the machines and to make sure there is airflow. The machine heats up, it breaks. Same as any other computer. Once they move it out, they generally experience fewer problems. I'm 3/3 on this. Not that it's an excuse or something you can generally extrapolate from, but it's something to consider.