Microsoft Bans Modified Xbox 360s From Xbox Live

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has now officially started banning Xbox 360s that have had their DVD drive firmware modified from Live, possibly using information brought in by the Crackdown-originated Halo 3 beta downloads. Scene site forums have already collapsed under traffic, and Microsoft has officially confirmed that they are banning modded Xbox 360s to keep the online playing field fair and level."

Reprecussions?

I, for one, welcome our console-modding overlords to the PS3. Or does Sony have a similar policy? I wouldn't know; I'm perfectly happy with my PS3 and DS.

Re:Reprecussions?

I don't think there exist any unofficial mods for the PS3 yet. You can install Linux on it, but that is officially supported and the hypervisor stops you from meddling with data to which you shouldn't have access.

When you buy hardware, you buy the hardware.

What I'm saying is that unlike software (including music), you don't buy a license to use/listen to it. You buy the physical hardware and you can do whatever you want to it. Now, if you do something that is enabling you to cheat in the game (and breaking the software license), then I don't see why Microsoft shouldn't ban you and the console. However, if you mod it in a way that does not affect gameplay, why should you be banned?

Missing the point.

It's their network, why shouldn't they ban people that don't play by their rules?

I say this as somebody that purchased a 360 less than a week ago, and loaded up the hacked firmware for my drive less than 24 hours ago.

Am I bummed? Not really. It's a private network, they can do whatever they like with it. Doing anything I want with my hardware sure as shit is my right, but I shouldn't expect other people to be forced to allow me to play on their servers like it's some base human right being violated.

Re:Missing the point.

Please show me on which planet Live costs $15/month. If you are going to take swipes at least try to have some facts right.

Re:When you buy hardware, you buy the hardware.

Now, if you do something that is enabling you to cheat in the game (and breaking the software license), then I don't see why Microsoft shouldn't ban you and the console.

The firmware hack did not allow you to do this. Since all code on the Xbox 360 (and PS3 for that matter), is signed and run through a hypervisor, for you to run a backup it needs to be identical to the original. Altering any of the code for wall hacks in Hallo 3 for example will change the result of the signing algorithm and the 360 will refuse to run it. The hypervisor was briefly compromised a while ago on the 360 but quickly patched (6 days I believe, so quicker than the file copying bug in vista). Using back ports of the previously hacked Xbox motherboard firmware it is possible to get a few things running such as preliminary XBMC and emulators (I'm not 100% on this maybe someone can confirm). However it is still not possible to run unsigned games.

Incidentally the method Microsoft used to detect the hack this time is very interesting. It was believed that the DVD drive firmware hack was un-detectable as well as un-patchable since Microsoft had no way of remotely upgrading or checking the firmware. A few weeks ago it was theorized that Microsoft could possibly pick up the difference in DVD read jitter between DVD-R media versus printed originals. You can kinda make out jitter by listening to the extra work a DVD drive does when reading a DVD-R compared to a printed DVD. Anyway a firmware patch was released for this purpose. It appears to not have worked however since reports are coming in that people are getting banned even with this latest patch. Currently its being theorized that possibly Microsoft are checking the read speed difference, between DVD-R and pressed DVD's. Data rates tend to drop slightly to my knowledge when reading DVD-R's, so this could be detected from the main 360 software. Others are speculating that Microsoft have just been data mining for the past few months and have just banned those they have picked up until the jitter patch was released.

Finally it is also interesting that Microsoft have only banned the detected Xbox console and not the Live account. They clearly want the hackers to spend more money buying more hardware off them. An interesting way of getting some lost revenue back.

Re:When you buy hardware, you buy the hardware.

"What I'm saying is that unlike software (including music), you don't buy a license to use/listen to it."

No, with Live that's exactly what you do.

"You buy the physical hardware and you can do whatever you want to it."

Knock yourself out, but purchasing the hardware doesn't automatically give you the right to access Microsoft's network facilities on your terms rather than theirs.

maybe the spring dash update

wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume it was from the spring dash update, because not everyone downloaded the Halo3 demo. Everyone rushed to get the dash update becasue (at the time) it was confirmed that it was working with modified firmware. simple solution, don't play backups on LIVE.

Fair play

I don't see an problem with Microsoft banning people with DVD drives modified to play copied games. It makes it fair for the honest people who payed good money to play. If people with unmodified boxes start getting banned by mistake, then that would be something to worry about.

There's nothing wrong with anti-piracy measures so long as they're unobtrusive and don't effect people with legitimate copies.

Re:Fair play

If people with unmodified boxes start getting banned by mistake, then that would be something to worry about.

Don't worry. They used Windows Genuine Advantage as the trial run for this...

Re:Fair play

Exactly. And this was their policy on the original xbox as well so I don't see why this would be a surprise to anyone. One of the strengths of xbox live is that you know the playing field is even. Its a closed network with no way a person can cheat via hacks or mods. They can't determine the nature of your change. Maybe it was something harmless, but maybe it allows you to see through walls in halo, or you're using your own drive with your own code that you can trick the xbox into executing. You can do what you want to your console in your living room, but they won't let you get it onto their sterilized network where your changes can impact other. Seems reasonable to me.

"Mod" me up +1 not banned from Live

In an ideal world people would be able to mod their DVD players to their heart's content without having to worry about things like this.
Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. As a Live player who frequently encounters modders who use their modifications to gain unfair (read ridiculous) advantage over the competition. It's no fun to play the game and service you're paying for when you have opponents with auto-aiming snipers that shoot through walls. Or even if they can just fly (a far more rare and less threatening occurrence that is nonetheless not an exaggeration. As long as stuff like that exists banning modded 360's from live is a good way to protect the greatest part of your paying customer base from such behavior.

But the Innocent...

But this seems like it's mostly going to hurt people who pick up 360's off ebay, or second hand somewhere else. These banned boxes are going to be dumped, the people will probably rehack with a more undetectable hack, and the poor schmuck who buys their old box is going to be in for a big surprise.

Coming Soon...

We'll probably just see the same thing that we did with the first XBox: a modchip with an external switch connected that can tell it to disable itself and let the original drive firmware load. Of course, setting it up probably won't be as easy as it was in the XBox 1 (which had a nice little LPC port that you could get the system to load a different BIOS from by just shorting one solder point to ground)... it may be necessary to actually remove the firmware ROM chips from the drive and wire in a new switched bank with copies of both the original and the modified firmware, but it certainly seems doable.

Another issue that slightly complicates things is the fact that the 360 signs you in to XBox live by default when you have an active network connection, so modders will have to be careful to unplug their ethernet cables when the switch is turned on. One vulnerability remains, though, and that is that Microsoft may choose to push out a dashboard update which checks for the drive's original firmware on EVERY bootup, and remembers to tattle to XBox live as soon as you sign on. Microsoft could choose to store this data on the hard drive/memory card (in which case it could be defeated by having a pair of storage devices, one for modded and unmodded use), or they could put it in the 360's internal flash storage, where the dashboard and system software itself is stored (no easy solution for that one, but I don't know enough about the 360's internals to know if the internal storage is flash RAM, which makes this easy, or an EEPROM, which would seem to require that the dashboard reflash itself with the new variable set every time that happens).

Anyway, it does seem that it is possible to defeat this scheme. I'd also like to note that Microsoft's stated reason for the update is bullshit, since even with the drive's firmware flashed, the 360 will still only load Microsoft-signed executables (meaning that it can play backups of original games, but is useless for homebrew and modified games). They might as well just come out and say that it's a measure to defeat privacy, since they've locked out homebrew programs anyway (with the exception of their XNA creator's club program, which lets you run only games written for their limited API, and only in C#, instead of giving access to the full-on devkit that the pros use). Couching it in pro-gamer language about defeating cheaters is disingenuous.

Re:Coming Soon...

Like I did with the original Xbox, I believe it would just be a lot easier to own two of them, mod one, and use the other for Xbox Live. Of course, this only becomes more feasible when the console drops in price (or you buy a used one on eBay or similar to mod of course), but in my experience, is the path of least resistance.

This is a good thing

The only reason I pay my Xbox Live subscription is to play on a clean network with no cheating. Granted, I have seen cheating, but it is very rare compared to say... any PC game. And it is usually quickly fixed. Like the vast majority of people, I bought my Xbox 360 to play games, I did not buy it to mod it. The *most important* thing in any competitive game or sport is fairness; skill, talent, and practice should be the only deciding factors in the outcome. If you want to mod yours, fine, but I don't want to see you on Xbox Live, which is a *private* network. The reason why there is such little cheating on Xbox Live is that it is detected at the hardware level, *not* on a per game basis like in PC Games. This is why I pay, and this is why I prefer to play FPSs on Xbox Live. Sure, I would rather play with a mouse and keyboard, but fair competition is the most important thing in online play.

Re:This is a good thing

It is.

When you spend some time in FPS games, you sooner or later get accused of cheating. Happens even to me from time to time. Personally, I shrug it off as some sign of respect, i.e. that I have to be kinda good to make people think I cheat. Sadly, the truth is probably closer to them being completely inapt. But having my delusions help me think I don't suck as badly as I do.

A prime example would be BF2142 and its myriad ways of detecting enemy presence. Aside of a commander ability that shows all enemies on a mini-map, you can, provided you have the necessary goodies unlocked, do it yourself to some limited extent.

When now someone runs past you, cloaked, and you start shooting him, rest assured that sooner or later a claim of cheating will follow. Ignoring that the "class" you play gets a bonus at detecting cloaked enemies, that you see him as a huge red dot on the mini-map and that you can hear his cloaking device give off a quite annoying whine. Follow your ears and that predator-like blur and you got him in no time.

In other words, any moron with half a clue would've seen him. Still, you can be certain, after you got him a few times (using every time exactly the same approach and you killing him every time exactly at the same spot, which is THE best known "sneak past the enemy" spot on the map to boot), you'll hear laments of cheating.

99% of the false cheating accusations can be traced back to a few reasons:
First, the other player knows the map VERY well and knows what approaches you can come from and where you can't come from. If there's only ONE corridor you can take, he won't bother checking the others.
Second, some games have "radar". Allowed radar, not cheated. Especially the more sci-fi oriented FPSs do. If you ignore it, your loss. Others use it to efficiency.
Third, experience. After playing a few 100 hours, you CAN actually do a headshot with a snapshot. Doesn't work all the time, but I know usually just where I have to direct my facing before switching to the sniper scope to have your head right where it should be. And yes, there are people who can sync-switch weapons, giving you a 99% health taking bullet to the body and switch over to sidearms. There are people who know exactly how long your gun reloads and who count your shots.
Fourth, teamwork. Even without any "real" verbal communication, a lot of games implement now ways to tell your team buddies where the baddies are. No, he didn't see you sneak up. But one of his buddies did and warned him in time to switch from sniper rifle to sidearm, twist around and cap you before you could knife him.

And so on. The list is far from complete, but accusations of cheating in modern games are usually false. Unless people blatantly abuse bugs in the game (like, sinking inside walls so they can't be shot or similar stuff), or blatant use of aimbots, you won't be able to see the difference of a really good gamer and a cheater.

Same as the original.

They were regularly banning modded XBoxes. A friend of mine bought himself a second machine for online play which would have been nice for Microsoft if it wasn't for the huge loss they were making on every console at the time.

So what are the benefits of modding?

First off, everybody should have seen this coming - they did this with the first XBox console.

Second, what are the benefits (outside of copying games illegitimately and cheating) would you have by modding your XBox 360? I haven't had any incentive to purchase the 360 because outside of better graphics and new games, my old, mod'd XBox can provide me all the same functionality. At least with the first gen XBox, modding gave you DVD playback (without the need to purchase the stupid dongle), music and movie file playback (i.e. off a file server on the network), potential to install a full Linux distro like Xebian (and the potential to use it as a MythTV front-end), etc... I'm honestly curious to know how I could maximize my bang-for-my-buck by modding an XBox 360 - how else might I be able to use that hardware, similar to the old XBox?

Additionally, no matter how much they try, there will always be people bent on cheating in live. Playing Halo 2 over my friend's Live account a few times was a crumby experience for me with the abundance of cheaters out there (and no, I'm not saying that b/c I'm a sore looser, but there comes a point in time that it is horribly obvious somebody is cheating), but I'm not so optimistic this will help much. Honestly, I have never purchased a live account, and I don't ever intend to purchase one (which is part of why I won't purchase a 360 - for that and other reasons).

The Sky is Falling

Wow, this actually looks like a PRO MS thread on /. and the other day I could swear that the last one about the Iphone was kind of negative to apple. *Does Not Compute* *Head Explodes*

Their network, their rules..?

Good. Don't mod stuff and expect to be able to play on microsofts network. The fact that people pay doesn't mean that you should be able to connect with modified hardware.

I'm actually suprised this hasn't happened already...

Coincidence? I think not...

Did nobody else find it seemingly coincidental that the banning of modded 360s was orchestrated through a game called "Crackdown"?

RTF EULA

Am I the only one that reads the verbose EULAs anymore? I thought that modded Xboxes of any generation were already banned from Live (I can't check the old EULA to be sure anymore beause the new one is up.) As someone previously stated, you buy the hardware and can do whatever you want with it, but Live is not hardware. (This doesn't touch on the fact that the dashboard is software that Microsoft probably claims is licensed rather than sold to you, and that they can revoke the license at any time.) I could add jet engines to my Camero, and as long as I rented a private airfield to use it I'd be fine. But my Jet-Camero wouldn't be street legal. And if it looked like Bumblebee when it turned into a robot, I'd have the MPAA, Hasbro, and Takara all after me. Wait, we were talking about Transformers, right? Anyway, you can mod all you want, but Live is the (pivately owned) public street, and mods aren't street legal.

Will this hurt MS more than the users long term?

I have a 360, havent flashed it because im rather picky about my games, I do have a friend who flashed his and now we cant play anymore. He is in Florida and im in Missouri but Live is the best way we have found to stay in touch.

They may have lost sales of a game or two from him but they are now going to loose his annual live subscription and the ton of xbox points he goes through. He is the one who talked me into buying my first live arcade game (Settlers of Catan) and he seems to buy every game they put out. I talked to him this morning and he is now talking PS3, I cant help but wonder how many thousands of live users will now do the same? I dont have a problem with fighting piracy but MS may be cutting off it's nose to spite it's face.

Modder Server

Instead of outright banning them why don't they send them to their own server? That way they can still keep track of who they are and perhaps not clue the modders in to the fact that MS knows that they've modded their box. MS could even run some well written bots to populate the server and totally kick the modders' asses. It could be a fun side project for the game developers (:

Newb question.

Is it possible to "Un-hack" your 360? I was considering buying a refurbished 360 and didn't know what recourse I'd have if I found myself with a hacked box.

Their network, their rules

Its their network, they can make any rule they want for you to connect. Not much to see here.

Now, if they start remotely disabling the console that you bought and paid for, then we have some news.

proofread much?

Microsoft has now officially started banning Xbox 360s that have had their DVD drive firmware modified from Live

Gosh, then why are they letting people modify their firmware from Live?

Kudos to MS

I pay good money for games and the live service. I don't want to lose to cheaters. They are protecting both of our interests.

Anyone Care to Help Out?

Where does one find out how to mod an Xbox360?

A few days into the stray of the events unfolding

Well obviously this has hit quite a few fans. Some though did take the damage and are now selling "off line versions" of the xbox 360 second hand. As long as they say that you cant play on line with it! It can be a good deal!

Some seem to think that they can play foul with the EEPROM to change the serial. Except..few know where the serial is hidden on an xbox360. And some are waiting for the mod scene to find a solution.

So that is what has become of it..

My point here is that though with the original xbox you really added allot of extra functions that made it a much sweeter box. And even though many lost their on line access through bans then they kept their own ones as media machines.

So what do the firmware and other mods for the xbox360 really bring in? Oh you can play "backup games"! Mmmm except that backup games is by far not the right wording. Illegal copy is more a right word.

The USA after all got DMCA right, that prohibits the cracking of security, how inept in design it might be to get to the content. And guess what on the disc stands "make no unauthorized copies"

The unmodded xbox 360 already is a media monster by using the legal tools available for it. So the mods really only allow people to use Verbatim coasters as "play discs". And the first game hacks already been shown with Gears of War!

Remember nobody pays either Microsoft or the developers of the games for the copied disc! Making a high quality game takes lots of cash and lots of time! And yes games are expensive but unlike food or clean water, you don't need games to life. If you are to poor well to bad you are to poor to buy them! Buying copies only kills the few good game studios that are left :!

And the "but fair use". Sorry DMCA killed Fair use! Complain to your local politician if you want that changed!

The "This will cost Microsoft allot of money" issue also is a joke! Really would anybody cry when cheap freeloaders that doesn't give the game studios their due cant use 30% of what makes the xbox360 a good console. It isn't as if you did pay money to the developers.

All in all a good clean sweep to show the real appreciation to those that try to make good value possible, sure games can be expensive but a game you bought in full is more satisfying then one you got on a verbatim DVD from your "nephew". It isn't as if you had any time to begin with to play out all the 99 games you "own"

Nothing like a cleansing storm to take away the dust and troubles isn't it? I wish all those that stayed on the legal side allot of fun with Crackdown and Halo 3 Beta! You are lucky!

Masticina Akicta,

Re:Fair and Level?

It's keeping it fair by not letting people who didn't pay for the game enjoy the service.

Re:Fair and Level?

What does banning altered consoles have to do with keeping online play 'fair and level'?
I thought that copies are identical to the originals.

One might say that using a modified XBox could mean hacked console firmware to gain unfair advantages, like visual aids, gfx drivers clip hacks, aimbots, tricks with skins, etc.

Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.

Re:Fair and Level?

One might say that using a modified XBox could mean hacked console firmware to gain unfair advantages, like visual aids, gfx drivers clip hacks, aimbots, tricks with skins, etc.

Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.

Yup, you nailed it. When talking about Microsoft, boring logic steps back to make way for our creative imagination!

Re:Fair and Level?

...except that the code signing still hasn't been broken.

That it hasn't been published doesn't mean it hasn't been broken. Not all hacks are made public.

Re:Fair and Level?

One might say that using a modified XBox could mean hacked console firmware to gain unfair advantages, like visual aids, gfx drivers clip hacks, aimbots, tricks with skins, etc. Another one might say that this is FUD applied to online gaming. After all, we're talking about Microsoft.

AFAIK only the executable is signed... so you're still free to modify the rest of the game assets. I've see people on PGR3 driving cars capable of 600MPH and with enough traction to never leave the course even at those speeds. It was done by modifying data on the disc and booting the modified disc with the hacked firmware.

At this point I think most of that kind of cheating is limited to the gifted few who are capable of knowing what to tweak themselves, but the potential is there, all it would take is someone to release a "tool" to make it easy for Joe-wannabe-hacker and you'll find yourself playing Halo 3 with someone who has infinite ammo, perfect aim, can see through walls, jump twice as high, run twice as fast, takes no damage, etc. etc. etc.

It's good that they did this, though the number of reported False Positives is appalling. I would suspect a great many of them are due to people who unknowingly purchased used or received refurbished consoles that had previously been modified... those people really don't have any proof that they didn't mod it themselves and their console might actually be modified. There are also some reports of unmodified consoles purchased on launch day (meaning there is no way they were refurbished) getting banned, though it's difficult to tell if the claims are genuine or just some pirate crying wolf.

Re:No Thanks, Microsoft. I'll Keep My Wii

No Thanks, Microsoft. I'll Keep My Wii

Wait.. Microsoft wants your Wii?

Re:Stupid decision...

You can. They just don't want you to play online against people who have OEM consoles.
If they didn't want you to mod the box at all, they could just brick it.

Re:Stupid decision...

As someone who has a 360 and had a silver account (the free one) then got a gold let me give you some facts:

1. Console updates are given to anyone.

2. You may download free stuff with either account

3. Some content (free) may first be only available to gold members then to silver.

4. You must have gold to play multiplayer.

5. You can buy extra content without having a gold membership

Look playing on xbox live has a set of rules. Like playing in the NBA, NFL, Nascar, etc ,etc. Don't complain cause you get banned because you are no longer on the same level, doesn't matter what the "hack" is, want to play on live it costs 50 bucks a year and you can't mod your 360. Don't want to follow the rules then don't play.

Dumb analogy complaining sports have substance abuse rules. Why not let athletes who have been loaded up on steroids compete against those who trained without them?

Re:Stupid decision...

Its not like flashing the drive lets you run cheats or install your aimbot.

Actually . . .

Google "Coalesced.ini" to see how Gears of War had its ranked leaderboard hijacked by people who were enabled by flashing the drive.

Of course I am not niave enough to think that this is MS's primary motivation here :)

Re:Fair and Level?

Probably with a similar technique as some PC-based games use, e.g., replacing wall textures with transparent textures, altering colors to make characters stand out more, etc.

Re:Don't even bother!

There is a difference between steroids (modding to cheat) and practice time.

While the end result may be the same insofar as those who have more time play better, whining about your circumstance and complaining that you can't compete is pretty pathetic.
 

Re:No Thanks, Microsoft. I'll Keep My Wii

I, for one, am disappointed with the Wii. Zelda was great, but other good games are few. What happened to Smash Bros and Metroid being launch titles? Also, whats to prevent Sony and M$ from developing similar motion sensitive controllers (Sony is sorta doing it with the six axis)? If and when they do, with their far superior hardware, it will be bye-bye Wii. I can't help but feel the Wii is gimmicky. In the long run, I think it will suffer the same fate as the GameCube- a decent system with a FEW really good games and a bunch of crap.

Re:Stupid decision...

Personally, I like the games. I don't really have fun as a political statement.

Re:Don't even bother!

Look, man, if you want it any more fair than a level playing ground, participate in the special Olympics. Microsoft might suck, a lot, but by no means is it obligated to help everyone feel better about themselves.

Re:News stories

I'm going to go out on a limb and say they only people with "Unmodded" xboxes that got banned are the ones who de-modded their xbox post-ban and are now trying to play it off as if they have no idea what happened.

I'd do the same damn thing - in fact - I'll have to do the same damn thing if I can't get my original firmware restored. That mod is entirely the only reason I even have a floppy drive any more.

Re:Stupid decision...

1. The 360 is popular because it's a very good product. As is. If someone from "free software land" buys it, they're presumably not buying it to install Linux and turn it into a networked bagel toaster control center.

2. Even if the 360 were highly-moddable and could easily run Linux and function as a workstation and do all kinds of unexpected and exciting things, why should we let the modded Xbox on Live? And why would the modder care at all about being banned from Live? The only modders who would care about that are "pirates" and people who cheat at games.

3. Finally, MS doesn't make much money on things 360. Not yet, anyway. And really, regardless of how I feel about MS's style of competition and no matter what I might like or dislike about them, I don't lose sleep whenever I think about them making money. It's not like they're using the money to burn down forests and put lead in grade school water supplies.

Re:Stupid decision...

Indeed. I bought a 360 because I spend the bulk of my time in free software land. Which is to say, instead of having a dual-booting gamer's PC or having to maintain a separate Windows PC, I have a 360 to game on and a linux PC to work on, hack on, stream media, act as a print/SSH server, etc. I no longer incur the time and expense cost related to keeping my gaming box "current", and my PC will remain linux-worthy much longer than my extra gaming PC ever stayed up-to-date. This becomes ever more important when you acquire a mortgage, spouse, and one or more children, which compete with gaming for your hard-earned dollars ;-)

That having been said, I have no problem with MS banning modded boxes from Live. Nor do I have a problem with people who may someday be able to mod their 360 and turn it into a media center, although I'd rather just build a Myth-capable Shuttle box if I wanted to do that.

Re:Not if you owned an HD TV

You might not prefer a Wii if you owned a 50" HDTV. The difference is night-and-day. Its really too bad that Nintendo couldn't manage 720p.

Re:Fair and Level?

The Xbox has had cheating problems in the past in online multiplayer due to modded consoles. For the most part, consoles are a closed system, so it's more invasive and risky to cheat in online multiplayer, as opposed to simply running a background app or modifying files on your PC. With the added risk of bricking the system, cheating is further discouraged.

There will also be cheating, just like there will always be theft. But if the barriers are non-trivial and carry risks, it discourages idle incursion and limits the problem to only the most determined and knowledgable hackers.

Personally, I never even owned an xbox, I've only heard reports of the cheating that went on in Halo multiplayer, and can't vouch for how much was actually going on.

Re:Stupid decision...

> If you can't install Linux on it or otherwise do with it as you please, it's not anywhere near as useful as it should be.

I apply the same litmus test to all decisions in my life, including my choice of girlfriends and pets. That's why I masturbate a lot and have a hamster that runs Ubuntu.

Re:Fair and Level?

Probably nothing at all. Theoretically you could mod a 360 to give you an unfair advantage - perhaps you could flood the server with bogus packets to kill it, or use your mod to see things that a game wouldn't normally show etc.

I think in reality it has more to do with piracy. Despite the protestations of "homebrew" people, it's quite obvious what most modchips are for. By denying pirates a substantial chunk of gameplay experience it may help deter a lot of piracy. I'm sure MS would actually brick modded consoles if they knew of a surefire way to do it. Instead, this is a second best option.

Re:Stupid decision...

It's not really that weird, it's more likely that the modding scene represents a small segment of the market. There are hundreds of thousands of X360 owners who probably don't have the first clue about how to copy X360 games, let alone what you need to buy on top (modchips, etc) to make them work.

"TrueSkill" Matchmaking on Live

You're absolutely correct- if the games you play on Live were against any random player, you'd very likely be playing with someone with vastly different skills (either better or worse depending on how much time they play relative to you or other factors). That's why Microsoft implemented the "TrueSkill" system into the Live infrastructure; the games you play are usually against people of similar skill. For each game (and I believe also for each genre) you have a "trueskill" rating based on your gameplay. Matchmaking attempts to create matches between players of similar "trueskill" ratings (but it doesn't always work for low-population games or folks who haven't played a lot of games yet).

Halo has it's own similar internal matchmaking system developed by Bungie that includes the ability to match "parties" of similar skill (that's not an ability built into the standard API all developers have access to).

Re:Sounds like a challenge to me

I'd give it 48 hours before has a counter-mod for Microsoft's anti-mod mod.

I think missed a word in that sentence.

The only way to prevent bios hack detection on the original Xbox was to use a modchip with a switch, and actually switch to the official BIOS when playing on Live. Also you HAD to lock your HDD if you upgraded, because it would detected the unlocked drive.

There's no reason to believe the 360 should be any different.

Re:Fair and Level?

It doesn't have anything to do with fair play. It probably shows that they know that everyone will buy or copy Halo, but it's a game that will seemingly force people to run with legitimate machines if they want to run the popular game. I guess it was just a matter of time, considering online play will be tripled at this point. Before, it wasn't a big deal, since the majority of copied games didn't have 95% online gameplay.

I honestly think this will hinder sales a bit. Either in consoles, or Halo games.

Re:Don't even bother!

It's hardly "fair and level" as it is now. I mean, there are some kids on there who I presume play Halo for at least eight or nine hours each day. They can always beat those of us who can only ever manage perhaps an hour or two a week, due to us holding, you know, a job.

I don't think you understand what a 'fair and level playing field' actually means. It does not mean everybody has the same skill level, it means that the system (console, games, Live...) does not provide an advantage to any player over any other player. Modifying any of those to provide an advatage which another player does not have would make for an uneven playing field. The fact that circumstances beyond Microsoft's control mean you can't practice as much as others has nothing whatsoever to do with the 'playing field'. The level of ability, skill and practice which you bring to the playing field is your problem, not Microsoft's.

Re:Fair and Level?

A modified xbox could include cheat software.

Re:Don't even bother!

Are you stupid? I don't know why I ask that because the answer is obvious.

Should the person who practices more be better at something? If you go out to a soccer field and play against people who play every day when you play once a month...do you expect them to all get on their knees to make up for your inability?

And quite frankly, what you say isn't even right. I work a full time job, own a house that keeps me real busy, and I can get on any fps and be at the top. I think you just suck at these types of games. Try an RPG...that way you can level up if something is too hard for you.

Disclaimer: not putting down RPGs, I play and love them. This guy should just stay away from multiplayer FPS because it actually takes some hand/eye coordination.

Re:Love to See a Class Action Suit

First, you need to step a way from that pipe, get sober and calm down.

Second, if you actually listened to yourself, then you would realize how ridiculous your argument is. There is a clear contract when you sign up for the Xbox Live service. It says, if you mod your box, you are not eligible for the service. Case closed.

For a comparison, if you buy a car and you make a modification that is not authorized by the manufacturer, your warranty is null and void. And that is a rule that has been tested many times in the court of law.

Good luck trying to get a lawyer.

Re:News stories

about people with UNmodded Xbox 360's that get erroneously banned start in 3... 2... 1...

What? You don't think it will happen? Think about Windows Genuine Advantage for a few seconds and then get back to me, mmmkay?

For some reason this was modded -1 Troll.

How in hell was that comment a Troll?

The Microsoft fanboys must have mod points today.

Nice analogy

Too bad you upset someone with it. Maybe someone with less sympathy for cheaters will mod you back up again.

Re:No Thanks, Microsoft. I'll Keep My Wii

I really don't understand what is wrong with you people. Why is that in every conversation that has something to do with the PS3 or XBOX360 you have to talk about your Wii? Ahh, I was mad...but after reading what I just wrong I can't help but laugh.

Re:Love to See a Class Action Suit

Uh, no. The thing is, you won't even get positive support on Slashdot of all places for this. People hate cheaters more than they hate copy protection. As far as used Xbox's go, it is buyer beware...that has nothing to do with MS. I also think the 360 might be making a small profit at this point. I don't think MS is worried about the prospect of having more units sold even if it is at a loss. It makes them a more attractive target for developers. More games means more appeal means more sales means more money for MS's money vault.

Flamebait my ass

Every security system invented by corporate programmers has been defeated by hackers. Latest case in point AACS, and before that CCS, WGA, not to mention modded XBOXes themselves.

Next time you are given 5 mod points, try and spend them wisely.

Re:No Thanks, Microsoft. I'll Keep My Wii

screw this thread I going to play my wii..... whoa wtf- where- note reads: "accordance with the new DMCA your wii has been confiscated signed: microsoft." DAMN YOU MICROSOFT!!!!!