Indecent Game Sales Now A Felony In New York

Gamespot reports on the final passing of New York senate bill A8696, legislation proposed just last week, that now makes it a serious felony to sell or rent a violent game to minors. The bill makes it illegal to sell a console without parental control options and establishes a group to second guess the ESRB's rating decisions. "'This bill is impermissibly vague,' EMA president Bo Andersen said in a statement. 'A8696 seeks to apply real-world standards of violence to the fictional and fanciful world of video games, an environment in which they have no meaning. As a result, retailers and clerks will not and cannot know with certainty which video games could send them to jail under A8696. It was depressing to hear members of the Assembly note the constitutional problems with the bill and then state that they were voting for it.'" The senate seems to have no fear of possible overturn of the bill, and claims it's only thinking of the children.

Wow. cigs and beee

[Broken scope]

sold to a minor don't even warrant a class E felony, and they have prove harmful effects.

Re:Wow. cigs and beer

[Broken scope]

Oh god my... I can't believe i wrote that...

Re:Wow. cigs and beee

[Lightwarrior]

Yes, but the NY Senate is thinking of the children. That's more important than any study, or even the proven fact that the courts will knock this bill down faster than you can say "waste of taxpayer dollars."

Re:Wow. cigs and beee

[jellomizer]

It is a problem with Elected Politics. In order to keep elected you need to do "Think of the Children" Laws just so you can stay elected.
Candidate A. In my Last Term I lowered crime by 25%, added more funding for social services, The graduation to college rate is the highest in the world, and I lowered taxes by 40%.

Candidate B. I passed the law to save your kids from video game violance. I passed a law to insure that your kids will not hurt their knees when they fall, I passed a law that will make sure your kid will never talk to a homeless person again. All this for only a 10% increase in taxes.

Well yes these are exadarations. But the "Think of the Children" effect people on an emotional level while Saving Taxes, better use of funds reduction in crime is more of a Thinking type of thing. It is easier to sell emotion then thoughts.

 

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

What is an indecent game sale? Is that when the cashier is naked when operating the register?

Re:

[rhombic]

Yes, but with your V-chip(tm) you can make sure that Bobby and Suzi can't watch shows like 24, CSI, ER, or Nova (might have animals doing the nasty, ya know). Now if we could just get something that would make our computers into a Trusted Platform where we could set undefeatable settings preventing little Johnny from playing those aweful violent sexy games, then maybe the terrorists won't have won.

Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned

[dctoastman]

Just ruled unconstitutional. C'mon, a "serious felony". What about movies with equivalent ratings? And books. Books have no rating systems at all. My six year old niece can go and buy any Diane Steel or Stephen King book and I would not recommend either to an immature audience.

Re:

[Z0mb1eman]

can go and buy any Diane Steel or Stephen King book and I would not recommend either to an immature audience.

I dunno, I think I'd recommend Diane Steel or Stephen King books only to immature audiences... :p

Re:

[hey!]

Actually, a method/means based distinction is more likely to pass constitutional scrutiny than a content based one. You can make driving through the neighborhood with a loudspeaker at 3am illegal while the same content spoken on a soapbox in the park is legal.

Now if you want to regulate the content of what is coming out over the loudspeaker, that triggers a lot of First Amendment tests. It's not impossible, but by in large the tests are reasonable and well constructed. You can forbid cigarrette adverti

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned

[drinkypoo]

If it's not Congress making a law, I don't understand how it's unconstitutional.

Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution [wikipedia.org]

HTH, HAND

Re:

[Broken scope]

Are you trying to be a smartass or are you seriously asking that? First it violates equal protection under the law. It only applies to videogames and ignores other forms of violent media. Cruel and unusual punishment. 4 years jail time and loss of voting rights among other things.( Yes you can have them reinstated but..) Second all states are bound by the US constitution. This is a state legislature doing this. Congress is the law making body. All laws are initially introduced in congress, either the hous

Re:

[eln]

Even if you're right, and I don't think you are, this law is still unconstitutional because the New York State Constitution, Article I, Section 8, prohibits passing laws abridging the freedom of speech:

Every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right; and no law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press.

Re:

[moranar]

I don't see how this law restricts that freedom. It's an idiotic law, certainly, but people aren't stopped from creating games directly because of it. It's maybe when they try to sell their creation that they might find difficulties.

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

So you're saying that the law means you can say what you want, as long as nobody hears you?

It's not a ban of the game in its entirety, it is a ban on direct sale to minors. I don't see how it is "nobody hears you", unless you are trying to push the idea that nobody over 18 plays games.

Re:

[CrashPoint]

Fourteenth Amendment:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Re:

[CompSci101]

Because in ratifying the Constitution, the states agree to abide by it? Maybe?

If anyone suing New York to shoot this law down can't get satisfaction from a state court (and I'd be utterly surprised if they didn't), they can take it to the Supreme Court and show that, as a matter of Constitutionality, this law violates the First Amendment and possibly the Eighth Amendment against cruel and unusual punishment (as one other poster pointed out, under this law it's worse to sell video games to a kid than it is

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned

[denttford]

Except you can't preemptively sue to get rid of a bad law like this - someone has to be prosecuted and willing to forgo the plea offer and willing to be the object of a long long legal battle.

Agree or disagree with the reasoning, that's the way it is. [wikipedia.org]

A felony?!?

[Winckle]

I'm not a citizen of the USA, but I thought felonies were very serious crimes, like assault, or bodily harm. Not selling violent video games to children, yeah, it's probably a "bad" thing to do, but making it a felony seems a bit over the top.

Re:A felony?!?

[Tridus]

All you have to know to understand Americans these days (particularly politicians) is that they've lost all ability to view things in perspective. Thats why every time something new is made illegal (especially if its completely innane, like this), the sentences for breaking said law are so completely out of line as to be laughable. Just wait, pretty soon pirating a HD DVD will be right up there with rape (if its not there already).

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, pirating media can get you a longer sentence than kiddie porn.

Re:

[Bent Mind]

All you have to know to understand Americans these days (particularly politicians) is that they've lost all ability to view things in perspective.

Not only has the electorate, in general, lost all semblance of perspective, they've also completely lost the ability to separate fantasy from reality. They seriously believe that banning the fantasy will eliminate to reality.

Re:A felony?!?

[oGMo]

Just wait, pretty soon pirating a HD DVD will be right up there with rape (if its not there already).

I believe rape gets you 3-5 years, whereas copyright violation can get you 10 and a $250k-per-incident fine. Just goes to show what our politicians really value.

This is New York we're talking about

[fistfullast33l]

Knee Jerk reactions by the legislature are not new to New Yorkers. I have three words: Rockefeller Drug Laws [wikipedia.org]. At the time they were the harshest penalties in the United States for drug possession. From the article:

the penalty for selling two ounces ... or more of heroin, morphine, ... opium, cocaine, or ... marijuana .... or possessing four ounces or more of the same substances, was made the same as that for second-degree murder

So this isn't an overreaction by the New York Senate - it's standard operating procedure! Even better, the laws weren't reformed for over 20 years. Just goes to show why we're the most dysfunctional state government in the country.

Re:

[Detritus]

It's the modern politician's way of saying "we take this seriously". If the trend continues, we might end up with the death penalty for spitting on the sidewalk. New York has a history of passing draconian laws, such as the Rockefeller drug laws of the 1970s.

I was watching a documentary on the colonization of Australia, and it said that 18th century English law mandated the death penalty for a broad spectrum of offenses, many minor by today's standards. It seemed to have little effect on the crime rate.

Re:

[SadGeekHermit]

NOTE: IANAL. Just a New Yorker.

Generally,

A misdemeanor is a crime that is punishable by less than one year in a local jail rather than a state prison.

A felony is a crime that is punishable by more than one year in a state-owned prison or penitentiary.

That's what a felony is about -- length and location of sentence. By the way, this should make it even MORE "over the top" for you because local jails are relatively much safer and nicer than state prisons, which are hell-holes by comparison. Unless you live i

Re:

[Nilatir]

State owned? If you 'follow the money' you'll find why many simple crimes have become felonys. A good portion of state-owned prisons are privately run by contractors, who get more money for more prisoners.

Politicians = Gerbils

[Psmylie]

They never seem to stop running in circles. I think they actually enjoy it. When this gets defeated in court, they'll just introduce another, extremely similar bill, which will also be defeated. Gotta keep spending that tax money!

Re:

[jandrese]

Yeah, but next time they run for office their TV ads will include the phrase "Representative Tool worked hard to keep corrupting influences out of the hands of children, because Representative Tool cares about the children."

Just go to kid-whose-parents-dont-care's house

[192939495969798999]

We all knew the kid growing up who had the porn, whose parents didn't care, and who had the latest violent-est video game. I guarantee that this will not slow down kids' exposure to such games, because they'll all just congregate at ol'johnny's house to play re-bloodening 3. It might slow down individual sales, but if exposure to the game is the problem, then consider it as unsolved as ever. In fact, making the games harder to get usually makes them more attractive to kids, as in "this one must be really bad, lets go to johnny's and see!"

Re:

[drinkypoo]

I guarantee that this will not slow down kids' exposure to such games, because they'll all just congregate at ol'johnny's house to play re-bloodening 3. [...] In fact, making the games harder to get usually makes them more attractive to kids, as in "this one must be really bad, lets go to johnny's and see!"

You're forgetting another exciting factor. Johnny is usually the kid with the least parental supervision. He probably has a twisted little worldview and will get your kids into trouble.

I knew kids who h

Re:

[TerranFury]

We all knew the kid growing up who had the porn

In the year 2007, that's any kid with an Internet connection.

Re:

[basic0]

"if exposure to the game is the problem, then consider it as unsolved as ever"

Yeah, until they introduce a bill to make it a felony to use parental discretion and buy whatever video games you see fit for your children. Followed shortly thereafter by the bill to prevent pregnant women from playing violent video games because it may give the unborn fetus unwholesome thoughts. Followed shortly by the bill to prevent grown men from playing violent video games because some questionable scientific paper will cla

Political Chicanery

[onetwentyone]

They can point out constitutional problems and still decide to vote for it knowing it can be overturned; sounds like a whole lot of political "I need something for my re-election" garbage. I imagine the exceedingly gross penalty stands for nothing more than a Get Tough (tm) on non-crimes stance.

Honestly, what is happening in this country where we've lost sight of what really matters?

Re:

[berashith]

I have a serious issue with someone who has sworn to uphold and protect a document knowingly commiting an act that violates it. I would love a rule/law where when a public servant has voted positively for enough ( 3 , 5 ) items that get overturned as unconstitutional that they would lose their rights to be a public servant.

Of course, since this was passed by a state law, which are reserved under the federal constitution to be allowed to do quite a bit, I am not certain which constitution we are in violation

Sad

[mulvane]

I actually at first thought to myself 'Is this for real or an onion piece?', but then it dawned on me that such bad legislation is par for the course. Sure one could say ignorance of the law is no excuse, but come on, ignorance of what someone else may think of as violent or indecent contrary to an already established rating system? I'm in the military, and I value what this country was built upon, but I have serious problems with what it has become and where it is going. The vote of the people doesn't even

Just stop at parental controls.

[PFI_Optix]

I've got no issue with a law requiring that consoles have parental controls so that parents can decide what rating level is appropriate for their kids and lock out the rest. That way they can control content without having to avoid consoles entirely.

I don't see anyone whining about the V-chip, so what would be the problem with a ratings filter on consoles?

Re:Just stop at parental controls.

[mulvane]

Nothing!! That is just the solution actually.. Leave the parenting to the parent and make parents responsible. Sadly, most parents want it the other way around anymore.
Who has time to be bothered by a troublesome kid.
Sure glad the kids at school, now I can have some peace.
Isn't there some kind of camp or afterschool activity I can send my kid to
Why don't you go play over at some one elses house

Parents don't raise their kids anymore, they expect government to do it, and government in turn wants to put THEIR religious and moral beliefs on our children, and punish the parents who disagree with THEIR views.

Re:

[PFI_Optix]

You don't know the same parents I do.

Most parents I know think they are at war with the schools because schools (an extension of the government) are trying undermine them as parents and raise the kids however they see fit. They whine and complain when the schools assign a lot of homework because "we don't have time to do anything as a family".

Of course, all they do as a family is eat fast food while watching TV before the kids lock themselves in their rooms for the evening so that Susie can show her boobs t

Re:

[mulvane]

I consider myself, as does my wife teachers as well. We don't like homework in excess, but we use school homework as family time with our kids. We sit down, help them with it, explain things they don't fully understand, and put our learned spin on things so they have multiple views to expose them to things having more than one way to be solved. Our kids eat usually home cooked meals with us. Eating out is used for days that have excess stuff (doctors appt's and or such things), and pizza on pay days (twice

Re:

[DeadChobi]

You're like a teacher's dream family. More parents should be like that.

Re:

[gstoddart]

I've got no issue with a law requiring that consoles have parental controls so that parents can decide what rating level is appropriate for their kids and lock out the rest.

The whole problem with this, or putting stuff on computers to allow parents to restrict what their children do, is that in most households, the kids are the ones doing the tech suppoprt and setting up the electronics for the family

People who grew up always having computers and most of our modern technology know way more about it than the

Re:

[PFI_Optix]

Are you aware that the average parent that needs to be concerned with parental controls these days grew up with computers and programmable VCRs and such?

If you started your family at 25 (which is on the high side of average iirc) and you have a 13-year-old, then you were born around 1969 (give or take a year depending on when your and your kid's birthdays fall). Making you a teenager of the 80s. You know, back when the kids really *were* the only ones who knew how to program the VCR.

This argument of "parent

Re:

[gstoddart]

This argument of "parents don't get it anyway" is ancient, and it's increasingly inaccurate.

I'm not saying everyone with kids is clueless about their computers and the like, but I see a lot of news stories saying the average teenager spends 5-10 hours/week being the family tech support and helping mom and dad out with online stuff they don't know how to do.

You must think parents of young teens are just ancient...they're in their mid-30s.

I'm in my late 30's, so I have a pretty good idea of what age range we'

Re:

[Scrameustache]

I don't see anyone whining about the V-chip

That's because you aren't paying attention [wikipedia.org].

Re:

[PFI_Optix]

I should hope so, there's no sense in not having it.

So let the politicians make a law requiring that:

-any device primarily designed for playing games (to exclude PCs)

-with interchangable games (this excludes the Atari clones with preinstalled games but no cartridges, as you know what you're buying when you buy it)

-that can carry any rating other than E (this excludes the educational systems like Leapfrog and V-Smile) ...be equipped with parental controls allowing parents to set a specific maximum rating all

So..

[Vexorian]

Kids will just download games like they already do.

They were damn smart at making it a felony to sell and not give away else I can think of the American army getting jailed for a serious felony...

honest question

[Pojut]

We all know that 1st degree murder is a big nono....but do they put extra charges on top of the murder charges if you kill someone in front of a kid but then leave the kid unharmed?

No?

I thought not.

Re:

[Gabrill]

great, now some votes-lagging senator will read that, and prove you wrong by writing it into his next bill.

Re:

[Pojut]

....I just pwned us.

My bad :(

Need responsible legislators

[RichMan]

Proposal:

Should a legislator vote for a law/bill later found by a court to be unconstitutional that legistlator shall immediatly be dismissed from their post having been essentially found to be "acting against the constitution". Such shall not apply to direct attempts to modify the constitution.

Re:

[Maximum Prophet]

Wow, that would be workable if it was like a three strikes thing. The first two times it happened (in one term) the lawmaker would have to sit out the next three votes. After the third, he's outta there. The count could reset with each term. To sweeten the pot, any legislator who was ousted would lose the right to run for office or vote for awhile, and have a large 'U' branded/tattooed on their forehead.

You could extend this idea to DA's that abuse their power in unconstitutional ways.

Screw the children, think of the adults.

[Blackknight]

Am I the only one that's tired of having their life inconvenienced for everybody's else's children? It's not my fault you're too lazy to watch what your kids are buying/playing. Why is the New York legislature even wasting time on this?

You boys want this shut down?

[Daimando]

You know what to do. Contact the ESA, tell them about this law. Contact the judges, inform them. Contact the New York Government. Give em your criticisms. Remember, our voices speak louder.

Re:

[CogDissident]

Since when? Voting machines don't mean anything since they went digital, so politicians don't care about our votes, just that it "seems" like they could have gotten the majority of votes.

I'll trust voting machines when I'm nolonger convinced that I could vote 10,000 times with just a weeks effort making a fake voting card and just rapid-swiping it.

the tags! You forgot one!

[N3wsByt3]

It should also be tagged 'thinkofthechildren'!

While I laugh at the silly (part of the) USA where this sort of crap is passed, the sad thing is, I have a feeling that it will blow over to europe sooner or later too.

The influence of the USA is just too insidious to stop it, certainly with the open backdoor they have in the EU with their fellow-anglo-saxon-mentality country; the UK.

I even fear the day, EU-countries will begin to mandate ID has to be learned at school too.

It's actually one of the reasons I supp

Why the fuck should I care about stupid politics.

[OldHawk777]

I can use daddy's gun, and play daddy's game.
I can't by a gun, I can't buy a game.
Why the fuck should I care about stupid politics?

I shot the sheriff

[CrazyJim1]

A8696 seeks to apply real-world standards of violence to the fictional and fanciful world of video games

And you Jim, what have you to say for your 12 counts of GTA, 3514 counts of assault, 151 murders of police officers, and 312 FBI agents dead?
"They had what was coming to them. Charlie was stepping on my turf, and they shouldn't have got between us."

We have all heard your testimony of your video game rampage, and have no other recourse but to sentence you to 29 deaths by lethal injections. After wh

Classic systems have no parental controls..

[LordJezo]

The NES, SNES, Genesis, Atari, Game Boy, etc.

None of them have parental controls. Does that mean selling classic systems is illegal? Or do the old ones get grandfathered in?

Re:Classic systems have no parental controls..

[Constantine XVI]

Neither does the Nintendo DS. The current best-selling game system is now illegal in New York, which is also the location of Nintendo World. Way to go NY

Call it like it is.

[Lethyos]

I get the strong feeling this story should have tags “hilary” and “clinton”.

I know this sounds wrong...

[brkello]

but I am beginning to hate the children. They keep getting in the way of all our fun. Maybe we should have less children so we don't have to think of them so much.

Who needs proof? Easy political points!

[Drake42]

A) See wildly unconstitutional bill, supported by a zealous minority.
B) Realize that if you vote for it the zealots will vote for you and if not they'll bully you in the media.
C) Realize that the bill will be immediately overturned by the judiciary, who are not under the same vote pressure.
D) Pass the bill, reap the rewards, trust the judges to do their jobs and shut down the bill.

Lame, cheap and easy. All it costs is voter money and wasted time, but tax money is free so who cares!

This is why we call it politics instead of governance.

Re:

[PhxBlue]

You forgot: E) Condemn "activist judges" to keep favor with the zealots.

Fuck the Children

[Maltheus]

I got nothing against children themselves, but I am so sick and tired of politicians hiding behind, "but it's for the children," bullshit. The didn't seem to be nearly as many problems with children before we had millions of laws "for the children."

Alternatives for Kids' Free Time

[Phoenix666]

Thinking of the children...I live in New York and I'd far prefer kids and teens spending their free time indoors playing a violent video game like GTA than hanging out outside spraying graffiti, destroying property, or any of the much worse things they get into when they are bored and have time on their hands.

Sure, there are some kids who'll go pick up a DIY radio kit, code, or play basketball in their free time. But judging from the kids on my block in Brooklyn there are plenty who are not adept enough or self-motivated enough to do those things, but quite capable of doing harm if not directed or distracted.

So who gets nailed by this?

[phorm]

The store owner, the store, or the minimum-wage employee who sells an M game to a kid who is 17 years 11 months old, and looks like he's 21.

Yeah... that's what I thought.

Re:politicians.

[faloi]

It's funny, in a sick way, that a lot of the politicians that are quick to place restrictions on video games and music seemingly don't care a bit about violence in the entertainment industry. Like everything else, you only need to look at the money to figure out why.

Re:politicians.

[anagama]

Or violence in real life. For that they sell yellow ribbon bumper stickers.

Re:politicians.

[flyingsquid]

Or, God forbid we actually try implementing some reasonable restrictions on handgun ownership in this country. Because, after all, if we did, then we'd turn into a totalitarian dictatorship where violent crime would be even worse, just like what happened Canada.

Re:politicians.

[Qzukk]

then we'd turn into a totalitarian dictatorship where violent crime would be even worse, just like what happened Canada.

Or Britain?

Re:

[Anarke_Incarnate]

Because the law abiding citizens this imposes restrictions on.........THEY are the ones we must stop. Aside from recent issues (VT) there have been only flies among 757s where legal gun owners are the ones who commit violent crimes. Many legal gun owners actually STOP crimes. Why should that matter... Feel good legislation is where it is at, man

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Say it with me: THE US IS NOT CANADA

It might well be possible to reduce or eliminate handgun sales in the US, but it won't be possible in the same way, nor on the same timescale, as any other country.

Remember, the mindset under which this country was founded led to the right to go about armed (aka "bear arms", yo) being written into the constitution. This nation was founded on individuality, and not on doing what one is told.

Re:

[koreaman]

Individuality? Not doing what one is told? Maybe for some elite subset of the intellectual population, but I've remarked no difference between normal Europeans and normal Americans in this regard.

I believe a bigger problem is the fact that the average American almost worships his Constitution. Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate. Please remember that, living in the XVIIIth centur

Re:politicians.

[drinkypoo]

Individuality? Not doing what one is told? Maybe for some elite subset of the intellectual population, but I've remarked no difference between normal Europeans and normal Americans in this regard.

I didn't say that things were precisely the same today as when the nation was founded.

But certain legacies from that time are still alive and strong today.

I believe a bigger problem is the fact that the average American almost worships his Constitution. Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate.

I take your meaning, but I also want to reiterate the point that those who forget the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them. The freedom of speech is necessary so that men can speak their minds and influence those of others. The freedom to bear arms is the only way to guarantee the freedom of speech. I could go on down the list, but the fact is that there are points at which force is the only valid response. When you get there, yes, the system has failed. But the old adage about the tree of liberty and the blood of patriots remains true.

Re:

[0123456]

"Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate."

What nonsense; at least 90% of modern laws go against 'the original intentions of the Founding Fathers'.

Who, BTW, included in the Constitution an implicit assumption that Americans would own private warships (see 'letters of marque and reprisal'), and would be appalled at the idea of Americans being denied the right to own personal weapons.

Re:

[GreyPoopon]

Please remember that, living in the XVIIIth century, the Founding Fathers were obviously out of touch with what is happening (what was will happen? what would happen? I hate tenses) in the XXIst.

In some respects, yes, but certainly not in the right to bear arms. It was a direct response to oppression by a government that had no respect for their individual freedoms and that tried to take away their ability to defend themselves. Case in point: because of the unrest among the colonies and the reaction to Br

Re:politicians.

[nickname225]

Do you really think that you can "contain an errant government by force"? The right to gun ownership might have made sense as bar against government overreaching in the 18th Century - but today - there is no way you or me or any 10,000 of our friends together can stand up to the government in armed rebellion. The armament gap between governments and citizens has now increased to the point where citizens might as well be unarmed, naked and crippled if they go up against government troops. The best you could hope to do is wage an annoying guerrilla war and pick off a few soldiers before they kill you. Don't be encouraged by the success of the Iraqis. They are only doing as well as they are because of U.S. unwillingness to be seen using excessive force - not a likelihood in the case of internal rebellion.

Re:

[GreyPoopon]

Don't be encouraged by the success of the Iraqis. They are only doing as well as they are because of U.S. unwillingness to be seen using excessive force - not a likelihood in the case of internal rebellion.

I disagree. It's working in Iraq. It worked for YEARS in Afghanistan against the Soviets (and I'm sure they were using excessive force). It has been working in certain South American countries. I also think that the unwillingness to be perceived as using excessive force would be multiplied domesticall

Re:

[Petaris]

Perhaps, but the military is made up of citizens as well, including friends and relatives. If something like that came about here how do you know that the government would still have the entire military following its orders? Just a thought.

Re:politicians.

[John Betonschaar]

If what you call 'personal freedom' is so aptly represented by the right to bear firearms, I'd say you have a really strange idea of 'freedom'. IMO the most important representatives of personal freedom are freedom of speech, freedom of thought, political preferences, sexual preferences, the right to decide what you do with your own property, the right to proper health care and education, even for the less wealthy, etc. etc. etc. Guns of all things *don't even occur to me* when thinking of personal freedom...

Still, the USA are famous for their bad public health care for large groups of people, their hypocritcal views on sexuality and different sexual preferences, strong commercial lobbies that dictate politics instead of common sense, government censorship, irrational soft drugs (why is smoking a joint not'personal freedom') and alcohol policy and so on. Yet the *one* thing that virtually no 'free people' from other parts of the world (the right to have guns) care about, seems to be the only fucking thing that matters when it comes down to 'freedom'.

You just enjoy your guns... err.. freedom...

Re:

[Kelbear]

Handgun restrictions vary heavily from state to state.

For example, here in New Jersey, it took 3 written reference letters and 6 weeks of processing for my law-abiding honors-student volunteer firefighter friend to get his gun permit.

Transporting the gun requires that the gun be unloaded with the ammo kept away from the gun. The gun must be in the trunk. The gun must be locked in a safe.

There's a great deal of restrictions out there. The problem is that it doesn't do anything to discourage those who have ac

Re:

[amRadioHed]

I'll take gang bangers blasting each other (95% of murders) over being completely monitored by government.

That is a false dichotomy.

Re:

[rabbit994]

Majority of murder are drug related. Ok, 95% is properly incorrect but it's slashdot where no one is going to change their mind due to comments.

Re:

[flyingsquid]

Damn, with this law in place, how will I get my kicks selling violent video games to minors? You know what someone ought to do is create a video game where you earn points by distributing violent games to minors!

Re:

[Chris Burke]

Well of course. " The senate seems to have no fear of possible overturn of the bill, and claims it's only thinking of the children."

Yeah, of course they don't fear it being overturned, which it will be on plain 1st Ammendment grounds just like every other law like it that has ever been passed. What does it being overturned cost them? Nothing, not a damn thing. They passed the happy-feel-good-think-of-the-children-but-don't-ac tually-think legislation, and it was the evil activist judges who knocked it d

Re:

[Mr. Underbridge]

...and thinking of their parent's votes....

The problem is crap like this is an election year time bomb. It's like this. Let's say somebody sponsors a bill earmarking $2 billion for animal shelters. You vote against it because it's too much money. If I run against you in an election, I'll run a commercial saying that you like to kill puppies for fun.

Idiotic bills like this, best thing you can do as a representative, sadly, is abstain.

Re:

[Mr. Underbridge]

No, the best thing you can do is to do your fucking job and at least slow the march of evil for a little while, rather than joining it (or laying down and taking it) for your own greed. Another term is useless if you're not helping anyway.

When you grow up you'll learn that you need to pick your battles. If this is the one end-all issue that you'll go to the wall for, then yes, you do. Otherwise, you're out on your ass before you can do anything actually useful. And for what? A bill that has a modest c

Re:

[MS-06FZ]

Well, there goes my idea of opening a game shop where all the employees are topless women.

You call that "indecent"? I think it's delightful!

Re:

[Rycross]

Best... idea... ever!

C'mon man, don't make me move to New Jersey. :(

Re:Indecent Game Sales? No way!

[Guppy06]

"Well, there goes my idea of opening a game shop where all the employees are topless women."

You'll likely scare away most of your customers; they're not accustomed to the real thing.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

You'll likely scare away most of your customers; they're not accustomed to the real thing.

I think it's a good idea, provided that you install a non-slip floor and a drain. Otherwise the saliva may become a problem.

Re:

[VWJedi]

I was a little worried when I read this...

I think it's a good idea, provided that you install a non-slip floor and a drain.

Uh-oh...

Otherwise the saliva may become a problem.

Whew! Saliva... ok then...

Re:

[Achoi77]

I had to do a once-over on the title, I really interested in reading a summary about how NY was going to arrest private business owners for failing to sell enough video games, enough to be considered a decent sale.

Re:

[Broken scope]

What good will carding do? The terms used as a guideline are so vague that a T rated game could get you in trouble if a parent and a prosecutor felt that it was "indecent". Sure, you could throw the charges off with a good lawyer but they cost money and the state doesn't usually pay for your court expenses. If your like the average store clerk your kinda fucked at that point. Sure, you didn't get a felony on your record but you had to take a loan out to pay for your lawyer.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

I don't think removing fingers is the answer. I think mandatory sterilization for both parents is. Stop them from doing it again. Besides, they are going to need those fingers to flip my burgers and salt my fries, and to take things off the rack at K-Mart and the dollar store.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Why not give every child in the USA the right to choose to be independent of their parents at any time.

Why not give every child in the USA the means, while you're at it?

What states don't have youth emancipation laws?

Re:

[drinkypoo]

What is needed is a system that guarantees independence free of adults if the child so wishes.

I don't think that most adults are competent to operate without supervision - and even less children.

Perhaps they should not be with their parents. But in only very few cases should they be without any.

Re:

[Johnny5000]

YOU SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A LICENSE TO HAVE CHILDREN.

I'll go one better.
Everyone should be sterilized at birth for free.
If you want kids bad enough, you can pay out of your own pocket to get it reversed.

Re:

[Kohath]

His point is extremely silly. A "license" to have children really gets the government out of parenting, doesn't it?

I think a "loose" finger explains the all-caps though.

Re:

[praxis]

Asking retailers to follow a rating system is just fine, and intrudes on no adult freedoms. I think the problem with this particular bill are two fold:

1) It's makes it a felony, which is a bit harsh for what it's trying to do. As far as I know, selling cigarettes to minors is not a felony, for example.

2) It doesn't proscribe any metric by which permitted and verbotten games are determined. To return to the cigarette analogy, every retailer that sells cigarettes knows what a tobacco product looks like. N