Jack Thompson Claiming Games Industry in Collusion with DoD

mytrip brings us a Wired blog about Jack Thompson's recent press release, which claims an "unholy alliance" exists between the gaming industry and the U.S. Department of Defense. Game Politics also has a discussion of Thompson's main points. From Wired: "Jim Blank, the head of the modeling and simulation division of the U.S. Joint Forces Command, says that commercial games don't meet the demand of the military, adding, 'first-person shooter games really don't apply in this environment.' Blank's point is that game-like simulations are a valuable tool for training soldiers in situations that would be too expensive to simulate in reality."

and?

Yes, they use video games to train. Yes, they use video games to market to recruits. Yes, they are in the business of war.

Somehow adding video games to the mix makes it more unholy than it already was?

Whatever. Will someone just shoot this guy already?

Re:and?

Whatever. Will someone just shoot this guy already?

Don't be alarmed, everyone. That's just the video games talking.

Re:and?

By Thompson's logic, cars are training simulators for driving tanks and APVs and and RISK is a training simulator for conquering and destroying to build a fascist global empire.

Why is this guy still allowed to tie up the media and court system? Why isn't he in jail or disbarred or institutionalized? He is the Jerry Falwell of videogames and at least Falwell finally had the decency to fucking die.

Re:and?

A madman is a madman until someone kills him and turns him into a Martyr.

Re:and?

I forget the exact name, but it's one of the cognitive fallacies.

Stupidity?

Re:and?

Perhaps something more like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias [wikipedia.org]

Re:and?

I agree with you that no one is very good at following whichever "word" they consider to be from "God," however they define it.

But let's be accurate:

• The early Israelite leaders (Moses, Joshua, David, ect) clearly interpreted "thou shall not kill" to specificaly mean murder. Killing first born Egyptians, warfare, ect., all OK to them. David on the other hand repented for "killing" a fellow soldier over a hot chick. So there is a difference in Judaism.
• Islam (the Qur'an) has the concept of Jihad, and spells out rules for warfare (not in a holy month, ect). 'Nuff said.
• Christ was a complete pacifist in every way. "Turn the other cheek" and "he who seeks to save his life will lose it" spell out a very clear message of non-violence, even for self-defense. I don't think Bush has read this part of the bible. This does not apply to God, however, He gives and takes as He pleases.
• Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism Dharma all consider non-violence to be a virtue. A primary virtue, in fact. I'm not sure elevating the concept to "sin" or "commandment" is quite accurate. I'll leave that question to someone who knows more than I do.

Obviously I'm down with JC. Just a disclaimer. I am biased.

But my point is that hypocrisy is harder to nail down in some religions than in others. Christianity, IMHO, makes glaring hypocrites of us all in short order. Christ set the bar ridiculously high. As was His point.

Sorry for the appologetics on the nerd site.

On topic, I'm all for video games depicting violence. I play FPS with my nephew all the time. Being human and intelligent requires some basic discernment, after all. Thompson should probably keep his mouth shut and not claim to represent "values" or any religion whatsoever, if he does.

Re:and?

I mean really! You can't really "interpret" thou shalt not kill... that's unambiguous, entirely unambiguous.

Well. I'm an atheist. And care very little. Be that as it may, why is it you are so sure? "Kill" is a modern word. And an English word. Surely you don't think that they were speaking English back then, right? The Bible wasn't written in English. That part was... what?... Aramaic? Old Hebrew? What was the original word used, and what were its connotations? And why are you so sure that the English word "kill" is a precise and exact carry over of all the connotations of the original word used? This needs some splainin'.

C//

Re:and?

My Chumash translates tir'tzeach as "murder". My Hebrew-English dictionary translates "kill" as harag or hemit. My guess would be that "kill" is the incorrect translation.

Of course it is. We got ninjas and pirates too...

...and we're coming for you, Jack. We're all out to get YOU, Jack. Boo!

And if you play really well, you get abducted...

The DoD is just copying what the aliens already did. I heard that if you do really well in the alien video game, it sends a signal out and pretty soon a talking spaceship lands to take you away to fight evil aliens.

See, the game is just a simulation of the real fight and the aliens need to find someone to save them. If you are the best, they come get you to go fight their war using the fabled "Death Blossom" maneuver.

(Not to be confused with the fabled "Turd Blossom" maneuver used many times over the last seven years by the Bush administration.)

Have a pretty white jacket, long arms.

Hasn't he been disbarred yet? Seriously if it was you or I going on like this month after month we'd probably at least get a month commited for evaluation. He's got something wrong with him and instead of looking inward to see what it is he projects it outward and thinks everyone needs to be saved from the demons that plague him.

Re:Have a pretty white jacket, long arms.

Freedom of speech and all that. Yes, I hate it as much as anyone that this guy can spew his drivel and waste valuable oxygen by continuous breathing and add to the carbon dioxide problem that way, but he still has the right to keep talking.

I think the 1st is more important than silencing him. He ain't that important.

conflict of interest

What will the extreme left wing, anti-war, anti-military establishment, conspiracy theory maniacs that are pro-pornography, pro-simulated violence in video games do? DoD using video games with subliminal messages to create new breed of professional military recruits and only Jack Thompson, evil video game critic to stand in the way. It's like being a Republican and realizing the only candidate that believes in what he's saying is Ron Paul. Guess the Democrats got that with Kusinich (sic). They both kind of remind me of Ross Perot, but I ramble....

Parsimony...

Really, folks - which is a simpler explanation for these graphs:

Violent crime rate [usdoj.gov]

Video game sales [blognewschannel.com]

That (presumeably violent) video game use correlates with a massive secret drive towards violence, that is somehow counterbalanced in the overall violent crime rate, or that this (now) extremely common form of entertainment is at worst, on average, a similar factor in people's lives as movies or books?

True, the ever-shifting and politically influenced definition of violent crime may have shifted definition over the years too, but I highly doubt any theories on that line would be able to mask the accusations Thomson makes about the use of video games in society.

In order to match Thomson's account to reality in any way, you'd have to start making up any number of wild inventions to force the facts into place... kind of like what he's doing here.

Ryan Fenton

So we've got old and false info? That it?

Two points: First, War as glamorous and consequence free... Wow, I don't think that I ever heard about anything like that in movies that I've watched for my entire life and many of the books that I've read. Seriously, didn't this moron ever watch Patton? Secondly, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the VT shooter was established to have not been a gamer. Granted, Fox News (never one to let the facts get in the way of their "reporting") opted to have him on right after the shooting, before any facts had been established, so that he could talk about how games were responsible for it. As I recall, however, the shooter's roommates said that they'd never seen him play any games. I really wish that the main stream media would out this guy publicly.

Don't Give Him Publicity

Jack Thompson is someone best ignored. I think it is better to stop making headlines every time he goes off his rocker, and let him not be heard, than to give him free publicity for his stunts.

Madness?

This. Is. JACK THOMPSON!

Why are we still talking about Jack Thompson?

Isn't there supposed to be a point where these people disappear from the conversation after their actions prove they're not relevant?

Its the Technoology Stupid

DOD makes extensive use of modeling and simulation. That is clearly no secret. The difference between commercial gaming and useful training simulations is the entertainment aspect, as the article states. Real Life, as we all know, is not Entertaining when it comes to Real Work. Actually carrying a weighted field pack, up and down hills, through brush, up stairs, wading streams, drop to the ground, run and roll for cover, etc. all take effort, and sweat, and physical coordination. See Kinesthetic learning [wikipedia.org] It might be exciting (especially when the other guy is shooting at you), fulfilling, and "fun" in an intellectual way, but not entertaining.

Most importantly, Video games don't do that with any accuracy at all. They can show you what it looks like, they can help you learn the approximate timing, they can maybe remind you to keep looking around for more bad guys and not just focus on the one in front of you. But that is all. At best it shortens the training time needed in the real world training course, much like a football coach has a "chalk talk" in a classroom before you suit up and take the field. Worse, too much application of simulation can induce negative training, in short, teaching them to do the wrong thing in order to win the game.

As for the Industry taking cues from the DOD, I wish they would. For starters the Physics models used in gaming are a joke and have been for years. If police and soldiers and criminals in real life could run like they do in games, shootouts would look like the Superhero Olympics. Every car chase would be the Indy 500 Cross Country Demolition Derby. If the aliens ever show up, they'd have good reason to want humans stomped out, we'd be too dammed dangerous! No, Game designers might get ideas from military scenarios (Call to Duty 1 - N anyone?), but they aren't using real situations. And if anyone could even vaguely show the FPS games were imprinting "Go Army" on any brains, major heads would roll. The fact the school shooters were using the games just shows how "out of it" they were. They didn't know the games weren't useful or accurate for training, so they used them, which somehow means the games were responsible after all.

Thompson is just taking out some ire on innocent bystanders for doing something he already hates. Yet another example of a political control freak.

Jack's a bit slow

It apparently took him years to realize that America's Army is out.

Don't worry about the military and video games...

No no no. See, when you really need to worry is when you find the military in collusion with shower curtain manufacturers. That never ends well (even if there is cake).

Re:It's the gamers! The gamers and the DOD!

But his whole thesis is that video games make people violent, and obviously he's pissed off a lot of said video gamers. How is he still alive?

Re:WTF?

Yvan eht nioj

Re:Mr. Thompson, should I interpret it in this way

I am pretty sure that was meant to be funny, but the truth of what is really being said is startling.

He is anti-american, like so many other neo-cons. The reason they want to change so many things of such consequence is they do not like the US. They want a new country with their rules in place. Something much more akin to the fundamentalist Muslim countries or Mussolini's government. A place where their ideals and beliefs reign supreme without that bothersome interruption from people who would think or believe differently.

I guess the scary part for me is that at one time, when I started learning about the neo-cons, I agreed with much of what I had learned. It was not until much later when I started seeing through the lies that I really got a grasp on what they stand for. It almost lends plausibility to those who believe they are trying to create a new world order. Because it sure seems like they are.

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