Future Sony MMOs Will Be On Consoles 144
The MTV Multiplayer Blog interviewed John Smedley, President of Sony Online Entertainment, about the future of MMOs. He discusses some of SOE's current projects and comments that they'll be focusing on consoles for all of their upcoming MMOs. "I would say that we would be one of the early adopters on [bringing MMOs to consoles], and we plan on becoming one of the dominant players in the MMO space on consoles." Sony's plans may include games for their hand-held console, the PSP. Smedley goes on to talk about bringing existing, popular franchises into MMO development, and remarks, "It's pretty safe to say that 'EverQuest' has not seen its last game."
Everquest 3? (Score:4, Interesting)
I worry though about console MMOs. MMOs focus a lot on communication between people for grouping/raiding. Unless the console this is being written for supports headsets for a Teamspeak-like interface, communicating on a raid will be very difficult, especially with a game controller.
EQOA is a good MMO, but its almost empty of population.
Maybe the best compromise would be allowing both PCs and PS/3s to both play.
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They introduced voice chat into everquest 2 recently.. it went very smoothly and works great.. so I think they have the voice chat angle covered.
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Also introduced voicechat into Everquest recently. EQ2 = EQ1, why'd you guys ever leave?
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Everquest 2 is a well rounded MMO. I just wish more people played it. Its a great place for almost anyone except the hardcore PvP-er who wants battlegrounds 24/7. You can advance a character is a lot of ways, either by crafting (adventure level and crafting level are two distinct things -- you can be a level 80 crafter and a level 1 adventurer), running quests for AA (similar to talent points in WoW), raiding (downed named mobs give you status to buy items, as well as guild status), and good ol' mob grin
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1. Nearly anyone who's played games such as Call of Duty online have headsets.
2. There's no reason an MMO needs to revolve around communication or raids.
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2. There's no reason an MMO needs to revolve around communication or raids.
MMOs absolutely need to revolve around communication. What's the point of playing with a massive number of people if you aren't interacting with them? Teamwork is the core of an MMO, and to work together effectively, you need to be able to coordinate with each other.
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Geez, how many people are this ignorant? YOU CAN HAVE A FREAKING KEYBOARD!
Who cares and good riddance. (Score:5, Insightful)
See these charts:
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html [mmogchart.com]
http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html [mmogchart.com]
Notice the arcs of SOE's products. This company is washed out. And no wonder; the way they jerk their players around is unbelievable. This company is run by sociopaths.
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i agree with you about Sony (it's not just limited to their game publishing arm), but those charts show that all MMOs (and probably all games) follow an arcing popularity curve.
a few games like WOW and Tibia seem to have longer popularity arcs than usual, but they will still wane in popularity eventually. and FF XI actually seems to be doing better than a lot of other games.
their anti-consumer business model/attitude, and incompetent corporate leadership, etc. have resulted in many mismanaged products. but
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Don't use mmogchart.com as even a guide to players subs. Only Blizzard are up-front about their numbers, and why wouldn't they when they are so far ahead of the pack? For most MMO publishers, subscription figures are secret and never make it outside of the boardroom. For these publishers, Mmogchart.com can only resort to speculation and heresay to arrive at their figures.
You sound like another bitter ex-SWG player who can't let go of the fact they ruined *your* game. Yes they fucked up, and Smedley has admi
Who gives a fuck about numbers? (Score:2)
I'm one of those light blue triangles that still plays EQ1. My wife plays EQ2. Still pumping out expansions and features in both games. We both played WoW for a time (and I've played Vanguard, LOTRO, Hellgate, etc.) and we keep coming back because most every "modern" MMORPG is a washed down game built to appeal to the least common denominator of a gamer. WoW is screwing us over by providing a model for "success" th
Console controllers for long-term playing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe it's just me, but for something that I'll be playing even for more than half an hour, I really prefer a PC mouse/keyboard (and sometimes joystick) to a console controller. Since these MMOs tend to focus on people who are going to be playing for a long time very frequently, I hope they've considered that effect. I'd get very uncomfortable with any of the popular console controls (Wii/Xbox) and just don't find them particularly effective. Additionally, text chat seems to be an important part of MMOs.
This isn't a show-stopper, as I'm sure they could adapt conventional PC controls, but I'm still not sure if it's a step in the right direction or not.
Re:Console controllers for long-term playing? (Score:4, Insightful)
I think it is a showstopper. MMO requires keyboard/mouse - period. Or at least, a standard console controller won't cut it.
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FFXI not real MMO. Go look at e.g. WoW, AoC, Warhammer, etc... Not playable with console scheme. They'd have to be way dumbed down.
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FFXI not real MMO.
Ummm.. lol? Exactly how is it not an MMO?
Go look at e.g. WoW, AoC, Warhammer, etc... Not playable with console scheme.
In what way? All you would do is have macros set to key combos to do things just like the vast majority of people do in other mmos on PCs.
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It is not about playability, as that is nothing more than what accessories are available ie. remote keyboard and mouse. What it is about is an alternate sales scheme for game consoles. Join an MMO, sign a long term contract, pay the subscription fee and get a free game console as part of the package.
This creates an opportunity to create a major MMO whilst also providing an opportunity for additional sales and licence revenues. The only question is whether it would work or not and how many failed rental c
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switchblade for wow, Uses xbox 360 controller.
http://www.switchbladegaming.com/ [switchbladegaming.com]
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Who says that an MMO has to be extremely difficult/complicated?
I think the defining characteristics of an MMO are 1) large, online playerbase (it's in the name, after all) and 2) persistence.
It doesn't have to be an RPG, it doesn't have to be centered around questing/raiding.
Though I agree that for the current model of MMO, a keyboard/mouse combo is really the only way to go. However, this can be addressed on consoles via peripherals.
The main weakness of a console-based MMO, I think, would be a lack of use
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Where have you been for the past 8 years. What does EVERY PS2 have on the front of it? 2 USB ports. And what could people plug into them? Keyboards for text chatting in the two PS2 MMORPGs, EQOA and FFXI.
What does a PS3 have on the front of it? 2 or 4 USB ports. And what can people plug into them? Just about anything, but personally I always have a keyboard and mouse plugged into my PS3.
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Why? What is it about online multi-player gaming that requires a keyboard and mouse? Millions of people play sports games and FPSes online with controllers. The only real difference between those and an MMO is the number of players. Talking about WoW or Warhammer is laughable, as they were designed to be played with a keyboard and mouse.
I'd like you to explain why an MMO designed to be
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You can use USB mice and keyboards with the PS3.
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So have a keyboard and mouse. Your console supports a standard USB keyboard and mouse. What's the problem?
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The consoles have absorbed enough PC that
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FPS is pretty bad,
And yet apparently 10s of millions of people seem to manage playing them just fine on consoles. I think the issue is a personal failing on your own part in light of this. BTW I play FPS on both PCs and consoles and have no issues with either and never understand when people complain about this.
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but I will note that autoaim is considered a cheat on the PC, and a feature on the console. Go figure.
And I will note that I've not seen any serious console player ever use autoaim if it even exists in the game, which is almost never.
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It's because you are special, with double jointed fingers able to wrap around a tiny controller and manipulate 2 joysticks simultaneously while pressing left+triangle+B. Just because I can't do it doesn't mean I'm lame, and just because you can do it doesn't mean everyone else can.
Consoles have a completely different viewpoint from PCs. On my PC I am currently playing a game that is more than ten years old. Is anyone on an XBox pulling out dusty boxes from their closets to replay them? Anyone on a conso
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It's possible, Runescape does run on Firefox under Yellow Dog 6 on the PS3.
I actually have my consoles on a computer desk, connected to a 19" HDTV. It's a useful setup for me because I run Linux on my consoles, currently a PS3, but I've done it on a PS2 as well.
Indie games in the living room? (Score:2)
Consoles basically grew up around kids, designed for families who can't afford computers
And in this recession, families still can't afford a computer for each member of the household, and PC game developers still can't make PC games that use four USB gamepads, a USB hub, and TV output.
Consoles are all about having the latest gizmos, with corporate controlled games; PCs have a good market with independent and smaller game makers (though getting rarer), and most people don't buy a new one or upgrade every two years. Consoles are designed around the idea of playing on the couch or living room floor usually, and PCs and PC games are designed around a desk and chair.
Then which platform is about indie games in the living room?
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FPSes on Consoles are quite different then on console. Most FPS on consoles are at ranges that would have already been decided and done for on the PC. Most FPSes on Consoles feel like knife fights with guns.
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Re:Console controllers for long-term playing? (Score:5, Interesting)
As another user already pointed out: consoles today are often connected to HDTV's that rival computer monitors in display resolution. Most have hard drives. If you add a keyboard and mouse, and the ability to check email, surf the web, etc, then the whole idea of a "console" is gone. It's just become another PC platform that happens to have good game support.
You forgot one thing: code signing (Score:2)
If you add a keyboard and mouse
Wii has the USB keyboard and the Wii Remote.
and the ability to check email, surf the web, etc
Wii has Internet Channel, based on Opera 9 and Flash 7. But I'll admit that I haven't yet tried it with the popular webmails.
then the whole idea of a "console" is gone.
It's still there: Wii uses code signing to lock out homebrew.
It's just become another PC platform that happens to have good game support.
PCs out of the box can run games from smaller publishers. Consoles can't.
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No, because you miss the most central point of the console: control of the hardware. A given console has only one possible set of video hardware, not dozens (or hundreds). One processor type. One motherboard. It's all the same, for everybody who uses it. And console makers leverage that control of the h
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I don't know where you're going to buy your computer parts, but I can build a brand-new Crysis-spanking machine for around $450 if I recycle my case and power supply.
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Console mmorpgs will likely be quasi fps games in a persistent world. When Sony released the new combat system for SWG the idea was to expand to consoles (or so I read on gaming news sites). It should give you a rough idea of what SOE's ideas were for console mmorpgs a couple years ago. For reference, the new SWG was a horrible embarrassment that finally sealed the coffin on a game that probably should have died awhile before it was introduced.
Smedley and the rest of SOE haven't a clue (Score:5, Insightful)
SOE is one of those companies that bought their way into a market, lost the people who could produce quality products, and now flounder about trying to find relevance. Their games completely miss the point in that they don't give gamers today what they're looking for. EverQuest 2 was a product that would have been rather successful if it had come years earlier. SWG was a product that, while having its own problems, originally delivered what gamers were looking for. What did they do? They patched the game until there were no remnants of the original game and lo and behold, the player base evaporated. Vanguard is a joke; who the hell wants MORE of a grind in MMORPGs?
SOE is irrelevant as a gaming company. Maybe they can push some shovelware on the PSP and PS3 and earn themselves some income, but some serious changes would need to happen in order for them to ever produce a game that can affect a market the way EverQuest did.
It's pretty safe to say that 'EverQuest'... (Score:1, Interesting)
Perhaps I do mean to be an ass, but has anyone actually made a decent MMORPG for a console that has a remote chance of appealing to the same crowd as the PC MMORPG player that cut their teeth on the likes of UO and EQ?
No, it's pretty obvious what Sony is doing here. WoW stole all our EQ2 customers, so we're going to the place where there is a) no competition and b) a bigger install base. Nevermind the fact that consoles, even with text-thumbpads that have been coming o
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Yes, Sony Online Entertainment with Everquest Online Adventures (Frontiers) I personally met a few players of PC EQ who preferred the gameplay of EQOA. They mostly complained that PC EQ was more tedius, and complained about corpse runs, game balance issues, and the lack of contiguous zones.
The hurdles, they be many (Score:5, Insightful)
- Modding community ... can they exist w/consoles?
- Alt-tab to a helpful wiki-based site for game
help? Can it be done on consoles?
- Game forums, still computer based? I guess that's ok...
- I assume communication will be done via voice? I shudder at the thought of hearing 11 year old immature idiots on the /trade channels. Keyboards and text chat had better be an option or I /quit.
- Can the consoles handle 50 people in the same scene at once all casting spells and generally being insane fucks? If not, give up until they can, because I don't want to see my FPS drop right when I get into the thick of things.
- My PS3 controller has ten buttons. That should be plenty to create a deep control scheme, if done right. That's the hurdle here: doing it right.
if they address this stuff I think it could be pretty sweet to be able to sit on my comfortable couch and play a MMO on my PS3. (yea yea I know, I can play an mmo on my big screen right now by using a computer anyway, but shush, we're not talking to you computer owning types here ;P)
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- Modding community ... can they exist w/consoles?
- Alt-tab to a helpful wiki-based site for game
help? Can it be done on consoles?
- Game forums, still computer based? I guess that's ok...
- I assume communication will be done via voice? I shudder at the thought of hearing 11 year old immature idiots on the /trade channels. Keyboards and text chat had better be an option or I /quit.
- Can the consoles handle 50 people in the same scene at once all casting spells and generally being insane fucks? If not, give up until they can, because I don't want to see my FPS drop right when I get into the thick of things.
- My PS3 controller has ten buttons. That should be plenty to create a deep control scheme, if done right. That's the hurdle here: doing it right.
if they address this stuff I think it could be pretty sweet to be able to sit on my comfortable couch and play a MMO on my PS3. (yea yea I know, I can play an mmo on my big screen right now by using a computer anyway, but shush, we're not talking to you computer owning types here ;P)
Modding community? Yes. Sony can set up a website and software that uploads. So it still requires a computer and all but they don't have to worry about the game runs. Instead they just have to worry about the creation software running on most people's computers. If Sony decides not to, then I suppose those who care will wait till PS3 is hacked to run Homebrew and 'backups' and hope that this works.
I think the second is definitely possible as long as you have a keyboard connected to your PS3.
Why not do commu
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None of those are really hurdles. Mods are not necessary for a game with a well-designed interface; they're a PC fetish, console gamers don't want them. Alt-tabbing to a cheat site is hardly something that's necessary or desireable. And I don't see why a console would suffer FPS-drop more than the typical PC.
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"None of those are really hurdles. Mods are not necessary for a game with a well-designed interface; they're a PC fetish, console gamers don't want them. Alt-tabbing to a cheat site is hardly something that's necessary or desireable. And I don't see why a console would suffer FPS-drop more than the typical PC."
Easy of you to say, but not true. Even games with a well-designed interface will be more popular if they allow players to modify the interface to their own wild abandon. Not only does that mean mov
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Yet hundreds of millions of games have been bought and loved, despite having no interface modifications.
If a game's designed well it won't need any of that. PC games tend to suffer from feature and interface cancer, there's no re
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What if the same game is released on PC and console, and they coexist on the same servers? I've no idea if this is in the future, but imagine this: What happens if the mods the PC users are using provide obvious benefit (note: they do), and the players are more capable in things like raiding (note: they are)? Who would want to play it on a console, and beyond that, wouldn't this cause segregation? "Oh
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If the game is not supposed to have mods, then they wouldn't be on the PC version either. You've just invented a straw man. As said before, a console MMO would only work if it's designed from the ground
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How do you mod an MMO? The clients are not made to be user-modifiable, for obvious reasons.
You can't have a computer? The wiki-sites will still be there, you'll just need another box to access them.
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"How do you mod an MMO? The clients are not made to be user-modifiable, for obvious reasons."
Mostly through interface customization. It's huge in all of the big MMOs like WoW. It's not all interface customization, though. Check out Curse Gaming's WoW mod site if you want a better idea.
"You can't have a computer? The wiki-sites will still be there, you'll just need another box to access them."
It sounds lazy, but I don't want to have to get up walk 40 ft and bring the computer out of hibernation or screen
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- Modding community ... can they exist w/consoles?
- Alt-tab to a helpful wiki-based site for game
help? Can it be done on consoles?
- Game forums, still computer based? I guess that's ok...
Honestly, I wouldn't shed a tear if we lost any of those features. I'm not saying I haven't used any of these, just that if they're really necessary, the game is broke. Client side mods remind me of an old Quake proxy program that never outright cheated for you, as in auto aim, or exploiting one of the MANY hacks available, wall hack, kick protection, etc. It just timed item respawns, notified you when stuff like quad damage was about to pop, and other shady things along those lines. I remember it was d
I'm a PC gamer (Score:1)
However, you can get a keyboard/mouse for your PS3, so I really don't see the issue. I would assume that they would be focusing on the PS3 for these games.
One of the rumors back in the day was that one of the reasons behind the NGE for SWG was that they simplified the game so they could port it to the PS3 easier. Far fewer controls.
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Yeah, but what most people forget about is that the keyboard+mouse combo has an implied third component.
A desk.
You gonna put your console in the office, now?
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Card tables, laptop tables, tv trays, writing type lapboards. It's not rocket science. You can even put the keyboard on your lap and an optical mouse beside you on the couch.
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Because a good gaming capable computer will cost more, sure some of the newegg obsessed builder types could do a $600 rig, but most people buy off the rack. Also the experience is plug n' play, less of a hassle.
Besides, doing any of my suggestions isn't that hard.
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Did you forget about the PS2's network adapter? Plenty of games built around that, and it wasn't bundled for a couple of years.
SWG was the start. (Score:4, Insightful)
WoW beat them to the punch :) (Score:1)
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/moltencore/ [worldofwarcraft.com]
Yeah, well.......maybe not
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That sort of thing makes Blizzard assholes, since their first game ever was a SNES game with much better graphics than that and they know it. And some of their later games like Warcraft II and Diablo got ported to the PSone. Now they're just another bunch of PC only snob developers. They should know better, but they don't. And now there's dev houses doing Diablo clones on the PS2/PS3 that look better than anything Blizzard has done. Diablo 3 is nothing, it looks like an enhanced Snowblind engine game.
The MMO business model is not sustainable (Score:5, Insightful)
You cannot grow and sustain the MMO business model in a free market without an economy. An MMO typically requires a continuous subscription, or allows free play for a one-time fee but then puts the financial burden on the service provider. As more MMOs enter the market, more avenues for paying out money become open to the player; this means more $30/mo bills (or however much, $10 even), and thus less interest in joining more MMOs (hmm I've got WoW, everquest, UO, FFXI, etc etc etc... 15 MMOs I'm paying $450/mo total wow! I'm tapped!)
Somehow SecondLife manages on one-time membership fees, I'm unsure exactly how they keep a revenue stream. What I am sure of is that they do need a constant revenue stream, which means a constant influx of new players or a way to get money from current players or someone else; so does everyone else. This means, as far as pay-per-month subscriptions go, creating an endless stream of independent MMOs will not scale, and eventually the worlds will be mostly empty save for a few popular ones and thus only a few can make money.
Seriously, $50/month, I can buy a whole new Wii or Gamecube game each month. Why do I want to spend $150/mo to have FFXI, WoW, UO, Matrix Online, Pirates Online, whatever the hell else? And then see a new one I want too, and join that? Eventually I have to leave one game, or stop joining new games!
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Somehow SecondLife manages on one-time membership fees, I'm unsure exactly how they keep a revenue stream.
Second Life has monthly subscriptions that give you some perks and stuff. There are also "tier fees" for virtual land (own X m^2 of virtual land, pay USD $Y).
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Don't forget people buying L$ directly on the Lindex, Linden Lab gets a tiny cut of that but it adds up.
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Every MMO has a lifespan. They launch, they find an audience (or don't), and generally they eventually have that audience dwindle down to nothing.
Over the course of that lifespan, if they have a decent launch and manage to sustain an audience for a reasonable amount of time, then they should be able to earn enough to cover their development costs. Keep in mind that most MMOs follow a box+subscription model so they get money for every new subscriber regardless of how long that subscriber stays. Generally the
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Waitwaitwait... SecondLife is a game now? When did this happen?!
I thought it was a place for furies, virtualized company storefronts, and flying digital penises.
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there are those of us in SL that do things like make virtual sandbox FPS games and stuff in it.
Right (Score:1)
And more MMOs to fail... (Score:2)
They really think they have a shot at time-intensive games on the _console_, that has its primary business in fast-paced games you can play quickly, without learning much, when you have a bit of time? Have they lost their mind?
Incdentially, this will accelerate the already in-progress demise of Sony.
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Not all console gamers are "Madden and other sports game only dorm/frat boy/ESPN adult fanguy gamers" Ogre Battle? Final Fantasy tactics? Disgaea? Persona? Final Fantasy XI/XII? Oblivion?
Looks like I won't be... (Score:2)
getting any of Sony's rootkits...
I mean...I mean playing any of Sony's roo^H^H^H^Massively Multiplayer Online games.
Not that I'd consider any of their crap anyhow.
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Since I don't own, and won't buy a console, I won't be playing their games.
Console MMO = good times for 14 year olds (Score:5, Interesting)
Consoles appeal to:
1.) "Hardcore" gamers -- primarily 14 year old homophobic racists
2.) Adult gamers -- 30-something PS3 owners who play after work and on weekends
3.) "Casual" gamers -- mainly Wiinies, young kids, women, senior citizens
Out of these, the only ones serious enough about gaming to put the time and energy into grinding would be the "hardcore" gamers. Great just what we need, MORE unsupervised kids running around in a persistent virtual environment yelling racial homophobic epithets while teabagging every other player they just teamkilled on a quest. This should make Sony lots of money!
Yet another sign of just how out-of-touch Sony is with its consumers.
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Going to have to disagree a bit with you on this. I think group 2 will also play MMORPG's on their consoles if they find them appealing, but if they do they won't play much else.. Group 3 might also play an MMORPG, stay-at-home-moms have the time if their kids are old enough. (I know several mom's who devote a TON of time to Second Life), senior citizens too. The oldest D&D players are probably senior citizen's now, and they might find MMORPG's more appealing than trying to get people together for a
So what? (Score:2)
Every game Sony touches turns to shit. They can take a good game and stop people from playing it, they're even good enough at it that they can make the game free and still have nobody play it.
Moving to consoles isn't going to help them, but at least pc gamers won't have to watch them ruin more games.
Console, for the genre where PC has all advantages (Score:2)
-Mouse/Keyboard control. Way superior, and while some consoles offer USB ports to add those, each PC already has it.
-Lots of harddisk space for big game maps. Consoles are getting there, but the PC usually is more upgradeable when you run out of space. And due to patches, you want the game on a writable medium.
-Copy protection is (almost) irrelevant, because the game needs the central server and login by design.
Sony are just stupid ;-)
Re:Console, for the genre where PC has all advanta (Score:2)
Re:Console, for the genre where PC has all advanta (Score:2)
As the other guy mentioned, consoles already have those features. Hell, the PS3 even supports bluetooth K&M, something most desktop PC's don't have built in.
-Copy protection is (almost) irrelevant, because the game needs the central server and login by design.
Errm... how is this an advantage or disadvantage to anything here?
If they were really necessary anyway Sony might subsidize the cost of a USB or BT K&M with the purchase of "Shiny New MMO, Deluxe Edition"
Blessing in disguise (Score:2)
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Yep it's not like anyone played FFXI or anything.
Ya, that's about right [mmogchart.com]
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And where would it be if they had made that a PC game? Right. Much higher and more profitable.
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http://www.amazon.com/Final-Fantasy-XI-Online-Pc/dp/B0000E2OBD [amazon.com]
Did you even spend the 2 seconds it would have taken to find that out?
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Ok, so how many of those subscribers on that chart were from consoles then?
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grasping at straws to avoid admitting you were wrong is a bit immature don't you think? maybe you should do a little more research yourself before making wild assumptions without any supporting evidence.
if FPS and RTS games can be made to work on consoles, then MMOs can surely be migrated to consoles. most MMOs are MMORPGs--which are just regular RPGs with a social element derived from the online multiplayer gameplay. and there have been RPGs on consoles since the days of the Atari 2600 (Dragonstomper). i d
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Uhm.. FFXI *IS* a PC game. It's also been ported to PS2 and XBOX 360, but it most definitely is on PC as well.
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This confuses a lot of people in the US because of how it was released. In the US, it came out on the PC first and on the PS2 about six months later. But it was released in Japan about a year and a half before the US PC release--and came out first for the PS2, with the JP PC release coming some time later. FFXI was developed for the PS2 and then ported to the PC.
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Ha ha, on EQOA on the PS2 was pretty much like that. Trying to remember if there were Crushbone orcs, I remember Hatebone's.
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Your wait was not needed.
http://everquestonlineadventures.station.sony.com/ [sony.com] It's a PS2 game but works just fine on the PS3. You did do the smart thing and buy a PS3 with PS2 backwards compatibility. If you didn't, PS2's are cheap, and that'll run on a slim PS2.
It's available on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Everquest [amazon.com]