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XBox (Games) Entertainment Games

DoA Creator Says Online Is New Arcade 37

Posted by simoniker from the dead-or-alive-sand-removal dept.
Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to this interview with Dead Or Alive creator Tomonobu Itagaki at Gamespy. The discussion covers the forthcoming Ninja Gaiden, as well as the new Dead Or Alive Online title we've previously mentioned, but the most interesting part of the interview may be Itagaki's assertion that "When you look at arcade culture, it's pretty much dying. I feel that it needs to be replaced with something else, and that is online gaming. Online connects the homes around the nation to create an arcade-like experience without going to an arcade."
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DoA Creator Says Online Is New Arcade More

DoA Creator Says Online Is New Arcade

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  • No 'watching' though (Score:4, Interesting)

    by HyPeR_aCtIvE ( 10878 ) on Thursday May 22, 2003 @07:42AM (#6014168) Homepage
    I think the big difference though, is the 'crowd'. Online gaming, it is you, and the people in the game with you, that are involved. And that's it.

    The part of the arcade that was always so much fun, was the crowd. When you are standing in line with a dozen other folks at the Street Fighter machine. Everyone oohing and groaning at what happens on the machine. People talking about this player and that player, and what their strengths are. The comraderie that develops from that, etc.

    You don't get that online. As why would you, there is no need to wait in line, everyone can play right now. But you lose that friendship/rivalry building.

    • Why would there be no watching? It could easily be done.

      I think friendships/rivalry are pretty much the same you get from other online games. There are numerous of game sites with chat channels and ranking pages which would fit this interest to beat people and at the same time become friends with them.

      However, still an arcadesystem is not a pc, and the pc can't really replace it.
    • I was talking to a friend about games yesterday, and he was asking me if a certain game was 'good'. I told him "yes, it is good- but ask me if it is FUN".

      As I talked to him, I realized that a lot of games are good, solid games. Very few flaws in the gameplay. They are getting more complex, and more challenging.

      But when I thought of FUN, I realized that a lot of them are not fun. To me, having fun while playing a game, is 4 people sitting around playing against each other. Yelling, screaming, hitting
      • that was one sick analogy... I really don't want to know why you thought of that directly after golf... something to do with choosing which wood you want to give a stroke?
    • I think the big difference though, is the 'crowd'.

      How about LAN-parties? You get together with a bunch of fellow geeks, you play your favourite games and the one with the most frags or the best tactics gets the attention.

      People talking about this player and that player, and what their strengths are.

      At the last LAN-party I attended, I had just changed my nickname. I kept this new 'identity' secret for a long time. For some reason, I did pretty well, sometimes even better than the Clansmen. They k
      • Yes, a LAN-party is the 'new version' of the arcade in that sense. But that wasn't really what this was about. It was about online gaming. A slightly-difference aspect there.

        The big problem I see with LAN-parties though, is the 'effort'. Back in college, I could walk into the campus arcade between classes and pop a few quarters for an hour with a bunch of friends and have that great 'LAN-party' experience, then go to my next class.

        That isn't possible with a LAN-party. You have to plan it ahead of tim
        • There are "ready made" lan parties at various cyber cafe type places. They're fairly common (albeit little used) in the SF area, and fairly common and heavily used in S Korea (so I hear).

          IMO they will become more popular and useful once games stop outpacing computers to such a large degree. It's hard to keep the computers in such cafes up to date enough to make people want to use them over their own machines. The people who do attend them are big starcraft or counterstrike players. The games don't require
        • Yes, a LAN-party is the 'new version' of the arcade in that sense. But that wasn't really what this was about. It was about online gaming. A slightly-difference aspect there.
          I wan't saying that LANParty == online gaming. I was just introducing a third option.

          The big problem I see with LAN-parties though, is the 'effort'. Back in college, I could walk into the campus arcade between classes and pop a few quarters for an hour with a bunch of friends and have that great 'LAN-party' experience, then go
    • I agree that the crowd aspect definitely seperates arcades from most other forms of gaming. Sure, nowadays arcades aren't nearly as popular as they were years ago, but I can still manage to pull a decent crowd with DDR :)

      Online gaming is picking up on the excitement of crowds, however. One of the main reasons I played Warcraft III for so long was because of the observer option. I played with a group of about 20 guys, and when we had 1v1 games with 10 observers commenting on the players and having a good

  • The World Would Be Boring w/o Cheesecake (Score:3, Funny)

    by robbway ( 200983 ) on Thursday May 22, 2003 @07:47AM (#6014183) Journal
    Okay, perhaps the most interesting thing about DoA1 was the incredible, gravity defying bounce. And I'm not talking about the ring-out bounce. Although the other games had sweeter graphics, much sweeter, the zero-g breasts in the first game were pretty much the only reason to play. Will that be in the game? How about with enhanced graphics?

    She kicks high.
    • As Itagaki said, they're using a modified version of the DOAXBV engine to redo the DOA2 part of the game, so I'd imagine that not only will there be plenty of bounce but probably a great many outfits that will frame that bounce in the most pleasing "fashion" possible...I suspect we'll be getting some bikini fighting excitement too - after all, the textures are already sitting there just crying out to be used again.

  • How about (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DavidLeblond ( 267211 ) <.me. .at. .davidleblond.com.> on Thursday May 22, 2003 @08:08AM (#6014227) Homepage
    Taking arcade machines and networking them? So when you put your quarter in... whoops sorry showing my age. Anyway when you put your dollar in, you play a game that is networked with several other arcades as well as some home users.

    I better go patent this!
    • Too late- it's been done (sorta) already. The Gameworks chain of arcade/bar/restaurants used to have 8 man stations that had PC games rigged up to play like arcade games (Descent was one, I think Redneck Rampage was another) that were not only linked to each other but to other Gameworks centers.Kinda nifty at the time, but was quickly obsoleted by home PC technology...
  • The biggest problem with arcades, IMO, is the annoying people who inevitably show up ("I was waiting for that game," "Yes, those are my 15 quarters on the machine," etc.). Add into that the fact that arcade goers are always going to skew young, and we "old folks" (I'm 31) just aren't going to feel as comfortable in an arcade anymore.

    While it's true that you can find as many kids and other annoying people online, you get to choose. You don't have to play against someone just because they happen to be there and you don't have to listen to someone's inane prattle if you don't want to (yummy Xbox Live mute button). Plus, you don't have to be stuck waiting in line for a machine to open up since every machine - or every two machines for online - is it's own arcade box.

  • The arcade culture has been on a steep decline since the NES arrived. Saying that they're dying is an understatement of epic proportions. Arcades are dead. Joystick Nation does a good job talking about the death of the arcade. They attribute the begin of the fall to Skee-ball machines.


    He's kind of missing the point though, since the new arcade is the home console, not online gaming.

  • Arcade is coming back (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Thursday May 22, 2003 @08:58AM (#6014406) Homepage Journal
    I agree that the internet is the new place for games. It will remain so until something else comes around and completely revolutionizes our world again. However, the arcade is making a comeback. If the popularity of DDR isn't enough for you just check out Time Crisis 3 and the new F-ZeroAC. Time Crisis 3 is perhaps the best gun game ever. F-Zero will provide connectivity between the soon to be release GameCube F-Zero game and the arcade one. The arcade still has a use. It is the place to play games with peripherals that you can't have at home. If companies started making more really great games with interesting peripherals, the arcades would be packed. If more people opened up arcades...

  • Retro Arcades & VR (Score:2, Interesting)

    by th3walrus ( 191223 )
    I think there's some money to be made in opening up retro arcades. A step back in time for those of us who grew up in the video arcades of the 80's. You'd have mostly classic games, but some new ones to keep things interesting. Throw some 80's music on the speakers and set up a hot dog stand and you're in business. Anyone want to be my sponsor? I just need the funding...

    Also, I think the future of arcade gaming has to do with VR. VR will start to hit the gaming scene again in the next few years. Since the
    • Funny. Your first paragraph pretty much sums up our local arcade. There's a couple of semi-new games there, but most of them are old battered machines running the classics. There's no hotdog stand, but the '80 music is the style there. Every time I go past it I only see one or two people inside. Your idea might work in a big town, but with ours having less then 20k it is a worthless cause.
  • I think what the arcade industry could really use is an arcade that DOESN'T SUCK. Someone needs to get out there and make an arcade for gamers, not little kids and bystandards. Keep all the games fresh, and non sucky, add some variaty, and for god sakes, have a freakin tournament every now and then! Seems like most arcades nowdays are all cookie cutter. Granted, there's not much you can do with the theme of a bunch of big boxes with screens, but theres gotta be something! Put some crazy lights in there! Hav
  • arcades still rock big time. why?! for games that use "new" type of interface (DDR, Gun Games, motion sensors, etc.), there is NO WAY the online version would be better if the game needs a new interface.

    true, DOA/SF2 has been standardized to hell... ever since the mid-90s... but there's still a hell lot of interfaces for games beyond keyboard/mice/PS2 controller (which is the ONE TRUE controller!) we're JUST getting interesting.

    plus, trash talk rules so much more when the other guy is begging for "se

  • Arcade woes (Score:4, Interesting)

    by madopal ( 308394 ) on Thursday May 22, 2003 @10:20AM (#6014879) Homepage
    IMHO, two major things have created the sorry state of arcade games these days: the tech arms race with home games, and Street Fighter 2.

    Allow me to elaborate. Ever since way back, the arcade people have been threatened by the home. Why? Because they felt the experience they provided was fundamentally a technological one. When home systems began to rival the arcades in technology, the arcade companies got scared. So, they pushed the arms race, making their games bigger and more advanced, all the while pushing their prices to an outrageous limit. Some posts here already have mentioned games like DDR and Time Crisis. While, as games, those two are damn fine accomplishments, when you're an operator paying $20k for a game, it can't possibly earn its keep. Thus, arcade companies (like Midway, Sega, and Namco soon) have put themselves in the role of the Soviets, spending their way to their own extinction while missing the point completely.

    Second, in the early 90's, a little game caught fire you might have heard of: Street Fighter 2. Before that point, you could hop into an arcade and it hadn't been bitten (as much) by the genre bug. Since Street Fighter 2, genres got firmly entrenched, and 95% of games are either fighting, driving, shooting, or sports. And when I say shooting, I mean games with a gun you hold.

    Arcades *used* to be about the purity of play. A post here mentioned control, and that's an excellent point. Arcade games spent more time working on control because they could customize it. If you've played Robotron, Defender, Tempest, Spy Hunter, or Ridge Racer, you've seen this. Arcade games provided a better game experience by focusing on the game. Recently, the games have gotten caught in the same trap that home games have. Namely, that technology sells games, and that sequels and genres are the only way to go. The difference between home and arcade though, was that prices haven't skyrocketed (yet) for consumer prices. Arcade games did that, and everything fell away.

    I personally think that there's still a viable market for games in social situations, and that there's a large crowd that remembers the days of the arcade and longs for that experience back. I myself still get goosebumps every time I see that sweeping shot of Flynn's arcade in Tron, remembering back to what the buzz in a crowded, loud arcade used to be like. I don't know if we'll ever get that experience back again, but if we do, the games won't be huge, expensive behemoths.

  • Arcade culture as a byproduct of distribution (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Thursday May 22, 2003 @10:42AM (#6015003) Homepage
    Arcades have traditionally been a distribution medium for new software, not a cultural medium facilitating communication. While there were cultures of PacMan, Super Mario Brothers, and Q-bert players, the games were very solitary in nature. The lone guy with a row of quarters playing space invaders is a perfect example of this. Games in those days were single-player affairs on jamma-compatible boards, utilizing a 4 position joystick and two or (gasp) three buttons. Because such hardware was so expensive to own personally, people needed to go to the arcades to have the best play experience, and to play a wider variety of games.

    That is no longer the case.

    During the NES / SNES period, arcade conversions were getting to be "good enough" that one didn't really need to go to the arcade to play excellent games. While the 2600 may have choked on Pac Man (and don't even bring up Q-bert), the Genesis could reasonably approximate NARC, and the SNES did a great job with Teenage Muntant Ninja Turtles. It was during this time that arcades transitioned from distribution centers to competition centers, thanks in no small part to the phenomenon of fighting games. The 4-player TMNT: Turtles in Time and the 6-player X-Men were all hits in the arcade, as were a plethora of multiplayer shooting games, fighting games, and car racing games (polygons were an arcade-exclusive back then).

    But that changed with the Voodoo 3dfx and the rise of the computer as a competitor to the console, as well as the coming of networked gaming. Not only were computers capable of delivering compelling realtime 3D to rival (though not, at the time, beat) arcade gaming, but it also could connect separate players to people across physical boundaries. At first this led to neighborhood games of Bolo, later to direct dial-up competitions, and finally to the remote multiplayer frag-fests and Massively Multiplayer Role Playing worlds we see today. The anonymous instant competition with strangers of similar skill levels previously provided by arcades is now available right at your desk. Likewise, the graphical advantage once held by arcade machines has eroded to nothingness... To reduce overhead the machines are based heavily on existing console and computer equipment, which in turn leads to low acquisition costs and very low porting expenses, but leaves little to differentiate the two platforms. Add in direct competition with rental industries, and you have very little reason to go to the arcade.

    The arcade does remain, however, and with one last, best reason. Hardware. Light-gun games, dance mats, digital batting cages, etc are prohibitively expensive for the average person to afford, yet can provide fun and unique experiences. Likewise, they are intuitive enough to be picked up and used without instruction by the casual or incidental gamer, the kind that is not likely to have access to many other distribution options at home (consoles or up-to-date graphics cards).

    Sadly, as a distribution medium the arcade is faltering badly, in no small part due to the inefficient economic model behind it. 'Core gamers often go to the arcade looking for the "latest and greatest" in entertainment, but find perhaps one or two first run games, with a smattering of older games they don't wish to play. This would be like a movie-goer wanting to see Die Another Day, but only being able to watch Tomorrow Never Dies because the movie house couldn't afford to buy a new reel of tape from the studios. Game distributers still sell boards to the arcade owners, who in turn try to recoup their investment from the gaming public. This is a very inefficient way of going about making the highest profit, as the distributers feed from the arcade owners, who (in their financially weakened state) attempt to feed upon the customers. But it is the customers who bring money into the system as a whole, and it is they whom both the producers and the providers should be focusing upon.

    For example, a Capcom vs. SNK machine may lay dormant in an
  • Does nobody think an Internet link is too slow for a fighting game? You have latencies of at least 60 ms. Counting protocol overhead, it's probably not as easy as just sending "player 1 has pressed left right now", so it takes quite a lot of data before the character actually moves. Then the same thing back to synchronize both consoles, and it's probably all encrypted to stop cheating (yet more overhead).

    Most serious fighting games today need you to really pay attention and sometimes use a split-second tim

  • Street Fighter 2 SNES (Score:1, Interesting)

    by swat_r2 ( 586705 )

    When I was younger, nothing was more thrilling than going to the arcade. I knew that the machines I would be playing were much more advanced than my NES/SNES, and the word "Arcade" to me was synonymous with excellence. There was also a definite rush to be had from pulling some excellent moves in front of complete strangers. Sure, the home systems had some Arcade ports (Smash TV and NARC come to mind) but these were often comparitively weak, and the mature over the top content was edited out. And there
  • In arcades it's you and the machine with people watching you. Online gaming it's you and every brainless ankie who thinks it's 'so cool' to hack the game so he's the best and 'kill off' anybody who is new to the game.

    I've enjoyed arcades since the first ones came into existance. Online gaming doesn't appeal to me in the least because of all the idiots out there who either cheat or target new players for the sole purpose of building their egos - 'Look at me! I killed XXX players! Aren't I cool?' Ya maybe bu
  • Somehow I doubt I'm the only one who feels there are certain, uh, advantages to playing DOA3 at home... with the curtains shut.. and the door locked Not sure I'd want to get THAT interactive at an arcade
  • A few weeks ago I went to an arcade for the first time in years... started playing Soul Caliber and a few other games, and before long I had blown ten bucks. I walked away from the arcade rather upset and disappointed in myself, not only losing most of the games I played but wallet now $10 lighter. Arcades are evil. I'd much rather continue paying $50 a year for my Xbox Live account than going to the arcade and going broke. Besides, the games in the arcade suck, anyways, and if you don't play a game anymo
  • Did anyone else read 'DoA' and think 'Department of Agriculture'?

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