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First Person Shooters (Games) PC Games (Games) Entertainment Games

New Doom III Preview Illuminates 77

Posted by simoniker from the straight-from-horse's-mouth dept.
Thanks to EuroGamer for their new preview of id's Doom III from an Activision press event in the UK, where id lead designer Tim Willits and CEO Todd Hollenshead were demonstrating the latest build of the long-awaited FPS sequel. Hollenshead confirmed of the game: "We have no plans to release it this year", a new "physics patch" was shown (the writer suggests "the physics implementation seems to be quite young, suggesting it was 'bolted on' after the capabilities of the Source engine became apparent"), and the writer argues that "...for all Valve's fancy physics and cunning AI, the eye candy in Doom III is still a cut above." Update: 08/14 15:39 GMT by S : In a related story, HomeLanFed have initial impressions of the multiplayer Doom III modes, currently being demonstrated at QuakeCon in Dallas.
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New Doom III Preview Illuminates More

New Doom III Preview Illuminates

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  • "...for all Valve's fancy physics and cunning AI, the eye candy in Doom III is still a cut above."

    Yeah! Who needs real life physics and amazing AI when I can have amazing graphics!

    I'm looking forward to both games, but as we all know great graphics doesn't make a great game. Good story and good AI are what makes a good game a great one.

    What's the story behind Doom? Oh, demons on Mars, ....again?

    Mike
    • I'm much more interested in HL2 than D3 right now, which is a complete reversal from before E3, but some of the things shown in D3 demos still intrigue me.

      IIRC, every single FPS to date has had strictly oriented players and monsters -- yes, you can go above someone if the map allows you, but you are still oriented in the same direction -- head toward sky, feet on ground. Some of the D3 footage has shown monsters crawling along walls, pipes, etc -- but it's not clear if this is actual gameplay or merely cut
    • So the car doesn't so much have a "steering wheel" or an "engine"... but isn't the outside pretty!?

    • Re:not really the argument you should use (Score:4, Interesting)

      by fredrikj ( 629833 ) on Thursday August 14, 2003 @11:36AM (#6695580) Homepage
      I'm looking forward to both games, but as we all know great graphics doesn't make a great game.

      One word: immersion. Graphics do help a big deal in the case of a game like this.

      • Re:not really the argument you should use (Score:5, Insightful)

        by syle ( 638903 ) * <syle@@@waygate...org> on Thursday August 14, 2003 @02:31PM (#6697466) Homepage
        You might have a point if it's cheif competitor had bad graphics, or lack of immersion. However, anyone who's seen HL2's demo movies can tell you that's not the case. In fact, I'd argue that 10% better graphics is actually LESS immersive than realistic physics, and good AI.

        I was one of those people who played HL1 on hard mode, and was scared shitless when I first realized how smart the marines were when they showed up. I didn't care for one second about the number of polygons they had, all I cared about was that there was a squad of marines 3 yards away, they were working as a team to kill me, and I had to think of something fast.

        No scary monster who runs straight at you, no matter how well rendered, can make that kind of immersion.

        • There are a few gaming moments I will always remember.

          The original Doom (second level, just past the first locked door, to the left) when walking around in the dark computer room and an imp was waiting for me around a corner, bumped into him in the dark and the light flickered so I could see him face to face (same general area as the chainsaw, IIRC.)

          Half Life - get out of the elevator into the gated room to see the Marines roping down from the Osprey, wondering how I was going to get out of that one (with
    • Hate to "me too" on this, but I have to. I enjoy ID's games, but they couldn't write a story and stick to it if someone strapped John into his rocket this morning and threatened to launch it unless his next game come with a plot less contrived than an A-Team reunion.

      Half Life 2 *could* drop the ball, but I haven't seen any signs so far that they have. I look forward to the work of the guys who made the marine AI of grenade flushing, constantly mobile, devious death.
    • People put too much emphasis on story in games. There is no formula for what makes a great game. Some games are great because of the way they tell a story, some games are great because of the gameplay, some games are great because of the atmosphere, etc. Just because HL1 was a great game and told a decent story, doesn't mean every game that wants to be great should copy that.

  • What the hey... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Lurch Kimded ( 582588 ) on Thursday August 14, 2003 @10:53AM (#6695126) Homepage
    My view is this you need the Quakes, the Doom's and the Serious Sam's for that fun, "I'm bored and want five minutes of pick up and put down gaming" moments.

    But also we need the Half Life's, DuesEx's and Thiefs for the long term evening of game play for the more in depth and absorbing game play.

    Each (Doom3, Half life 2) each have their place, and each will be mine... HUZZAH!... ...after I get the 300 together for a new grpahic card ;-)

    • This whole saga has been interesting ... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 14, 2003 @11:11AM (#6695299)
      First, I'm glad to hear someone recognize that Doom III and HL will both have their place. However, I'd like to note that there are benefits of Doom III beyond being a quickie of sorts. Although graphics do not make a great game, improvements in graphics are always welcome, and I'm glad to see Id pushing the envelope, once again, with graphics. Someone needs to do it. There is always a need for better graphics.

      And who knows? Maybe Doom III have more of a storyline than we think.

      This whole saga of Doom III versus HL is fascinating to me. First everyone was drooling over Doom III, then over HL, and sometime since then there has been this reversal of opinion among some that HL is the game to look forward to, not Doom III.

      The author of the article suggests that the delay in Doom III is due to the HL release--e.g., that the physics patch was added on in response to HL. I've never heard of this before. Does anyone who follows Doom III discussions know if this is the case? It seems reasonable, but also a bit silly in some ways. For example, the author admits that, even given the physics and AI in HL, the graphics are better in Doom III--so why would Id feel threatened? To be honest, that's the way I've always sort of seen it developing--Id develops awesome graphics, Valve does awesome AI. For this reason, there's a part of me that finds the idea of Id being threatened by HL a bit strange, if realistic nonetheless.

      Finally--although this is more or less offtopic--I have to say that the game I'm looking forward to the most isn't Doom III or HL--it's the next Deus Ex. The gameplay in Deus Ex is far beyond either in my opinion, even if it doesn't have the graphics or AI.
      • The author of the article suggests that the delay in Doom III is due to the HL release--e.g., that the physics patch was added on in response to HL. I've never heard of this before. Does anyone who follows Doom III discussions know if this is the case? It seems reasonable, but also a bit silly in some ways.

        For all of the things we have heard out of id about Doom 3, we never (afaik) heard anything about a new physics engine in the game, or any plans to move forward in physics from where id's previous games

    • Re:What the hey... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Have Blue ( 616 )
      The point of the article is that Doom III is *trying* to compete with Half-Life 2. It's not just a dumb shooter anymore, it's full of scripted events and sidekicks and so on. However, whether it can actually surpass HL2 in these areas is very much in doubt, and the changes tend to make it not as good a dumb shooter.
      • key words: scripted events. Doom3 is full of them. HL2 doesn't have scripted events per se, most of the cool stuff you see is actually the AI interacting with the environment.
        • I think you will have a lot of pre-scripted events, thats what moves the story along. The difference will be that the the EVENT is scripted, and the AI will react and creat the event. It won't just be a cutscene type event where the same thing happens wether you stand and watch, or fire a rocket into the works, but rather the story event will happen, and you and the AI & NPCs will dynamically react.
          Sounds Awesome. I can't wait.

  • There they go again.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by saden1 ( 581102 ) on Thursday August 14, 2003 @10:59AM (#6695188)
    <i>for all Valve's fancy physics and cunning AI, the eye candy in Doom III is still a cut above.</i>

    Valve has a ship date and they don't. I suggest they STFU and let the people decide. As always, the publisher is at it again, hyping a game that won't show up on the radar for many months.
    • That quote is from the writer of the article, not the publisher or developer. Additionally, while it was a publisher-held event, it was still id's people showing off the game.

      It's good to see that Valve may have made id realize that physics are important, I just hope that id can put together a physics engine that is worth the delay, instead of just some rushed-together pos that we would've been better off without.
      • It's good to see that Valve may have made id realize that physics are important, I just hope that id can put together a physics engine that is worth the delay, instead of just some rushed-together pos that we would've been better off without.

        This is John Carmack [slashdot.org] we're talking about here.
        • I'm quite aware of Carmack's sometimes staggering ability to pull complex formulas seemingly out of his head and translate them well into video games. The difference is that a physics engine (just like a graphics engine) takes time to tweak so that it not only feels right in terms of gameplay, but also looks right (in terms of how other things are effected in the game). id game engines are well-known for allowing rather odd exploits of their physics, not to mention having heavily framerate-based physics in
          • id game engines are well-known for allowing rather odd exploits of their physics, not to mention having heavily framerate-based physics in the first place (ie having to have a certain minimum framerate far above normal to rocket-jump a certain height).

            The rocket jumping problem is due to rounding errors. Such an issue is hard to correct without using a lot more CPU time. With computers being much faster now, I'm sure we'll see better physics.

            Of course, all of this assumes that he's adding in a complet
    • I suggest you look into some reading comprehension [rhlschool.com] skills, they might help keep your foot out of your mouth more often.
    • December 8th, 2003 for a price of 77.99$ Canadian.

  • New Doom III Preview Illuminates?? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dr. Bent ( 533421 ) <<ben> <at> <int.com>> on Thursday August 14, 2003 @11:01AM (#6695200) Homepage
    Illuminates nothing! I can't see anything but dark in those screenshots. Turn up the gamma, guys!

  • So dark.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Thursday August 14, 2003 @11:06AM (#6695246)
    Getting a little tired of games like this in which just about everything is either gray, black, or brown with brightness ranging from dark to very dark. (and for that matter, shows like "Enterprise" that look similar).

    We've come along way from "Yar's Revenge", but at least those games had a decent contrast and visibility that seems to have been lost along the way.

    Did someone forget to pay the electric bill?

  • Halflife jealousy? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by evilhayama ( 532217 )
    This article makes it seem like Id is trying to make Doom 3 into a "Better Halflife". Doom 3 was very similar to HL1 in premise to start with, and now this Physics Patch seems to be a direct response to the amazing physics stuff in HL2.

    It seems pretty lame that they're adding this sort of thing now, at the end of the development cycle where it probably can't be integrated into the game properly. Id should let their game stand on it's own as a separate entity.
    • I'm really disappointed. I was hoping Doom 3 would have accounted for these things early. Since HL2 is not going to be for Linux, I was depending on D3.

      Now to hear that they're adding it on as a response to Valve feels messy and very disappointing. I wish Valve would develop for Linux.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • It seems pretty lame that they're adding this sort of thing now, at the end of the development cycle where it probably can't be integrated into the game properly.

      A working physics engine was implemented already in the year-old alpha.

      I think the guy who wrote the article is exaggerating matters - probably, id are pimping these features to confirm that they're there, not because it's the most recent addition.
    • Doom 3 was very similar to HL1 in premise to start with
      More like, "Half-Life's premise was basically Doom 1 in a science lab instead of space to start with."
    • Doom 3 was very similar to HL1 in premise to start with

      One could make the argument that Half-life was very similar to Doom 1 & 2. Scientists working on transportation technology accidently create rift in space-time allowing bad things to come through, one man must fight them to save the world. Granted the storytelling of Half-life was way beyond Doom, but the story they told was pretty similar.

  • oh no (Score:2, Interesting)

    by AzraelKans ( 697974 )
    Damn! it looks like ID really freaked out after seing half life 2 completely stealing the E3 show this year. Doom 3 already has a nice physics engine (check the last e3 quicktime movie) it has ragdoll physics rigid bodies and even some fluid physics (for blood) but it doesnt "show off" as much as the one in half life 2, maybe thats what they have decided to change that. Actually I wouldnt mind at all if they released the game as it is now, and then release some expansions or mods that make heavier use of t

    • Scarier than Silent Hill? I think not. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by danro ( 544913 ) on Thursday August 14, 2003 @01:40PM (#6696787) Homepage
      I saw the E3 demo and it puts the entire silent hill series to shame.

      Except that in Doom 3 you'll be a serious, gun-slinging badass.

      In Silent Hill 2 on the other hand you start out unarmed, unskilled, and when you get your first weapon it's not a gun, not even a knife.
      ...it's a friggin' piece of wood.
      When you _finally_ get a gun you find out you shoot like a little girl.
      Oh yeah, and there's almost no bullets.

      That game is some of the scariest shit I ever played, and I rue the day I bought it.
      I still haven't gotten very far, mostly due to the fact that I can't play alone at night (seriously).
      It's scary almost to the point of unplayable.

      The worst part is I can't even sell it and get my money back because ...it's too good.
      So the box just sits there on it's shelf and sort of stares at me.
      Actually even that is kind of creepy.
      • I played Silent Hill on the PSX and it was definately the scariest game I had ever played. We cranked up the stereo for the awesome sound effects, closed the curtains, and played for days until we finished. I probably couldn't bear to play it alone. It's just too insane. The ambient effects really make the game.

        That said, after hearing that the latest two games in the series are even scarier, I can totally understand how you feel.
      • If you had problems playing Silent Hill, you probably wont be able to play Doom 3 at all, imagine a vr device that can put you inside silent hill check things from the view of James Sunderland or Harry Mason meeting those demons eye to eye thats a slight idea of how scary Doom 3 is. It doesn't matter how buff you are or how many weapons you have, Doom has a little surprise for you... I dont want to ruin it (you can read the spoiler if you are feeling too curious) but believe me it really doesn't matter ho

  • Who's Following Who? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Gefd ( 562296 ) on Thursday August 14, 2003 @11:32AM (#6695531)
    From where I sit (and play), ever since Quake 1, or perhaps back as far as doom 1,
    everybody else has been playing catch-up with Id. Most of the time falling short by
    a long shot. With a few notable exceptions.

    After reading the article, it seems now that Id is playing a little catch up themselves.

    Quote;
    Tellingly, the physics implementation seems to be quite young, suggesting
    it was 'bolted on' after the capabilities of the Source engine became apparent.
    Admittedly this is the opinion of the author of the article, but interesting none the less.

    Though from what I've seen, everyone else is still playing catchup on the graphic's front.
    But when you sit back and have a look at whats in store for the (hopefully) not too
    distant future, you can't help looking forward to finally sitting down and playing these
    games.

  • Physics just getting added? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by delus10n0 ( 524126 ) on Thursday August 14, 2003 @11:39AM (#6695607)
    Huh? I'm confused. The alpha that was leaked months ago had physics in it, such as shooting the boxes near the start (they would fall to the floor and tumble) or shooting the lamp swinging in the hallway (it would flip around, throwing light and shadows everywhere)

    Unless they're revamping the engine or something to compete with Havok's physics engine? (The one used in HL2)

    I'm lost.

    I still think Doom3 _and_ Half-Life 2 will be awesome games. Cinematic games are the future.
  • "With the physics 'patch' looking pretty recent, you have to wonder what Id plans to do with it. Integrating it into the gameplay now would be a mammoth task, surely?"

    "But as a leading edge company, it most likely wanted to take the long term view and maintain its reputation as always being a front runner, so that three or four years down the line, publishers and developers still regarded it as the top middleware provider in the FPS genre (and potentially all manner of other genres for that matter)."

    The f
  • Mindless killing, with awesome graphics. I am excited to be able to fill my desire to digitally kill monsters in such greusome detail!
  • Listen, its been said in other posts and in many other discussions. DOOM, Quake, etc... are all been there done that games. Eye candy yes. New. DEFINITELY NOT.

    HalfLife2 did steal the E3 show and I believe with be 10 times more successful then DOOM III or Quake 4. For reasons of game play, market share and overall replayability

    Most players who cut their teeth on FPS like DOOM and Quake have moved on, grown up or just plain grown tired of the whole bob and weave experience!

    DOOM III will also suffer if i
  • /I've heard all the trash talk about Id so many times. Seems to me that everybody just wants to defend the games they choose to play. Personally, I think it's simply great that there are so many games out there. Anyone who doesn't recognize that different games add to and enrich each other and our experiences, is, perhaps, not looking deeply enough into the matter. I would suggest that if people need to defend anything, it's because they don't believe it to be strong enough on it's own, or, perhaps, they ar

  • One key fact (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Rethcir ( 680121 )
    There's one key thing to consider here people, when it comes to the doom vs half life BS I see every time Doom3 is mentioned anywhere:

    IT'S NOT A FRICKING CONTEST.

    Sure both of these engine are going to be licensed or whatever, but there is NO REASON why you can't just get and enjoy them both. I don't see either of these companies' fortunes depending on out-selling the other one's product. Both of these games look like they will be a spectacular diversion from the total dreck we have seen on PC for the pa
    • I completely agree.
      • I thought Id and Valve were seperate companies. Seperate companies delivering products in the same consumer market. Companies with the goal of selling said product and making as much profit as possible. Which requires many consumers to make a choice, as they probably don't have much disposable income. Sounds like a contest to me.
        • I can definitely see the point where financial issues could force a choice. But it seems to me like the games are differentiating themselves pretty well in terms of story, engine, gameplay etc. so they are not really in direct competition (like, say, Q3 and UT).
    • It is a competition for one reason: there's no HL2 for Linux.

      For me to play both requires installing windows, and I really don't want to do that.
  • Doom III has had physics simulation for a very long time. A Gamespy interview [gamespy.com] from August 2002 states, "First, Tim showed the physics system by shooting some boxes off a shelf -- the boxes would react differently depending on where they were shot. Next, Tim shot the side of a lighting fixture, causing it to swing back and forth, and subsequently cast moving shadows on the zombie below." The 2002 E3 demo also showed ragdoll physics, as an enemy fell down the stairs you could see his limbs bending and movin

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