Rockstar Investigated Over GTA - Vice City 201
Jubii writes "Seems the State of Florida is about to investigate Grand Theft Auto: Vice City for possibly violating state hate crime laws. This comes right after Rockstar and Take-Two issued an apology and a promise to remove offensive dialog found in the game. This could cause significant changes for 'mature' games in the future." Since Rockstar has already apologized and pledged to update the game, is it just me, or is the state of Florida only looking to line its pockets with some best-selling game profits? Update: 12/12 00:19 GMT by S : Haitian community leaders aren't satisfied either, saying "the manufacturer's pledge to change future editions did not solve the problem with games on store shelves now."
So frecking useless! (Score:5, Interesting)
When I played VC, I *never* once thought, "hey, those haitians, they're pretty bloodthursty!" And you wanna know why? Cuz it's a GAME, not a how-to guide or a travel brochure!
Re:So frecking useless! (Score:1, Funny)
Re:So frecking useless! (Score:1, Informative)
Re:So frecking useless! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So frecking useless! (Score:2, Funny)
Is it an original?? if so can i steal it shamelesly to impress da ladies with?
Obligatory follow-up (Score:3, Funny)
Hate crime (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess all the people that say "slippery slope" is an invalid argument don't know much about governments or laws.
Re:Hate crime (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hate crime (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hate crime (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:Hate crime (Score:2, Insightful)
Kill the Jews! No, that's not racist. The Jews are a gang. I mean.. uh.. it's just some people we're calling "Jews", maybe not actually Jews. Err, okay they are, but it's just referring to some bad apples. Yeah, that's it.
Kill the Africans! Death to Americans! Come on, that's evil. What's going through a game designer's mind when he names a gang after the people of a nation? Kill the Poles! Gas the Kurds! Just because the Haitians don't have a well-renowned history of being persecuted or
Re:Hate crime (Score:2)
Thre are a lot of other reasons that this should have been thrown out cited here (the chara
Re:Hate crime (Score:3, Informative)
Here is the script [gamefaqs.com]. The "single line" most objected to is probably this one:
UMBERTO: Hey, ladies. You know what I'm gonna do?
UMBERTO: I'm gonna kill me a Haitian. And then?
UMBERTO: And then I'm going to make love like a
Re:Hate crime (Score:2)
1. I disagree.
2. This wasn't speech designed to encourage genocide, it was speech from fictional character(s) designed to make you kill members of a gang of Haitians.
Was it stupid for them to have something like that in the game? Probably. Was it a crime, should it be illegal? No-fucking-way.
Re:Hate crime (Score:2, Insightful)
It's like the Sopranos. If you're ethnically Italian, as I am, and it offends you (which I don't understand, since the show obviously doesn't represent the life of most Americans
Re:Hate crime (Score:5, Interesting)
it's not just about it being a funny show.. it's the social commentary that makes it great.
anyways, how long has the game been on the shelves? hmm? a freakking long time perhaps hmm? somebody fishing for extra points somewhere hmm? being kyle's mum hmm?
it's largely a parody of stereotypes anyways(the game).
Re:Hate crime (Score:1)
Hate Crime Laws:
A Savage Hypocrisy
Re:Hate crime (Score:2, Offtopic)
I wish more people just watched their Kindergarten teacher tell them that 'shutted' is not a word.
Re:Hate crime (Score:2)
I hate lawyers (Score:2)
Now, because Rockstar did something nice for them, they are getting shafted. They would have been better off telling them to go fly a kite (or at least lighten up).
What games need... (Score:5, Insightful)
What we don't need... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What games need... (Score:3, Funny)
What do you mean? No videogame has yet to touch the delicate artistic expressionism found in the simple lines "F---, F---, F--- the Po-lice." Or Eminem's heartfelt ballads to killing his wife in front of his daughter. Or for that matter, Eminem's hearfelt ballads to murdering fags. Such obviously worthwile expression of the human sexual condition is worthy of the protection of the law. This television game,
Re:What games need... (Score:2)
http://www.siia.net/
Do they count?
What Problem? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What Problem? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Racism vs. Violence (Score:2, Interesting)
When I was looking up info on DukeNukem3D for a post, I noticed this nifty litte blurb for "Wolfenstein 3D" [3drealms.com]:
Due to the game content, this game may not be ordered by residents of Germany.
I'm not going to look for other examples, but if they can't purchase the game...
Re: Racism vs. Violence (Score:2)
Dear Delray... (Score:1)
It's FICTION, and thats protected speech. No one was telling people to kill Haitians! IT IS A V-I-D-E-O G-A-M-E.
I am losing more faith in the elected officials of Florida. Keep this moron away from butterfly ballots.
Re:Dear Delray... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dear Delray... (Score:1)
Re:Dear Delray... (Score:5, Funny)
The dead vote there, they can't hold a proper election, they don't seem to comprehend what free speech is... I mean the list goes on and on.
We're watching you Florida, one more screw up, and your phallic landmass is out!
Proud GTA player from Florida (Score:1)
What is so special about that game is that it makes fun of EVERYONE equally, there is no one safe from the dark humor of the game's authors.
I think in Florida you will find an extremly large difference of opinion depending on the age group, and between Orlando / Tampa / Miami.
A lot of the
Re:Dear Delray... (Score:2)
Re:Dear Delray... (Score:2)
Re:Dear Delray... (Score:2)
That's a joke, right? The mob stays out of Miami because the elected officials have all the lucrative territory pretty much wrapped up. All they have to do to stay elected is keep the AARP card holders scared about black people carjacking them. Woo, negroes! (Vote incumbent.)
Re:Dear Delray... (Score:1)
This is getting ridiciulous. Lousy whiners. They can't even get the CONTEXT right for the "offensive" phrase. JEEZ, this is SUCH a bunch of crap.
Research.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Things like this make me doubt the future of the human race.
Re:Research.. (Score:1)
How much have the people who are making these claims looked into the game?
The problem with this is that the kind of people who buy this kind of game, are not the same kind of people who take this sort of stand on racism and hate crimes.
Re:Research.. (Score:4, Insightful)
the future is clear to me - in 20 years no one will be able to say anything for fear that it will offend someone.
currently you can't do/say anything that will offend someone, but what about the countless people that are not offended by an action? should we lower our society to suit the most sensitive and most irrational people, or should the majority win?
well the majority isn't winning anymore when it comes to things like this. the feelings of one person now override the feelings of millions of others, and even that is based on someone's word - they SAY they're feelings were hurt. its a good thing people don't lie for money
I agree that hateful and slanderous remarks should be removed from our collective conscience, but is attacking video games the way to do it? if the collective conscience of america wasn't already thinking of such things then they would have never made it into the game - the game is the symptom of racial slurs, not the cause, you fucking prats.
outside of the USA everyone makes fun of us Americans. do I care? no. should i? no. if someone makes an anti-america game do i give a flying patootie? hell no - its just a damn game.
so i say bring it on. hey foreigners, make lots of games that poke fun at americans: "hey, you gonna eat that untouched entire large super-supreme pizza," "now just wait a minizzle," "i'm 28 and i can't do long division anymore," "i've never voted, voting doesn't matter!!" and various other stupid (yet all too common) american sayings should be included. will we care? fuck no. we'll think its funny. I will anyway.
Haiti: take it as the joke its meant to be, not as the money grubbing, attention-seeking opportunity you seem to think it is. If you get offended you are weak. why don't you get offended that Haitian language support was left entirely out of perl 5.8? oh wait, i know: no money to be won.
Re:Research.. (Score:2)
We don't have to wait 20 years for that... it's here today. You don't even have to say that you personally are offended. Just mention that someone might be offended, and you can probably get just about anyone in big trouble for almost anything they say.
Personally, I am offended by all the hypersensitivity and political correctness (i.e. thought control) we have allowed ourselves to be subjected to. But does anyone care if I, a white American male, am offended by that? Nope.
Oversensitivity and Greed (Score:3, Insightful)
Video game developers are just seen as an easy target because they don't have the massive financial backing of the MPAA or RIAA (movies and music routinely have far more offensive content).
The supposed Haitian community leaders (9 times out of 10, "community leaders" are just obnoxious individuals who decide that they speak for everyone else) are simple using this as a chance to grab some attention at Rockstar's expense.
The state of Florida is just going after the cash, because they know that video games don't have enough popular esteem yet among those with power to be well-defended.
I'm going to go out and buy GTA3, just to spite them.
Re:Oversensitivity and Greed (Score:3, Interesting)
Videogames are easier targets than movies or music because, by and large, the developers don't have as much money and they're viewed as 'bad' forms of entertainment. Much like when speaking against pornography, it's an easy publicity move to take the moral high road against videogames. That isn't to dismiss what affect videogames may (and probably do) have on the players. I know I get wired after a long session of
*sigh* (Score:1)
Come on /. (Score:2)
Should Grand Theft Auto Vice City be pulled from the shelves?
Yes. It is racist and offensive. 20.00% 52
No. It's just a game. 21.54% 56
No. If you're offended, just don't buy it. 58.46% 152
This keeps getting 'stupider' (Score:1)
And where are these idiots when we see people killing Mexicans, blacks, whites, Russians, Arabs etc in movies, books and television? Are they not possible hate crimes by the definition these idiots will use to try and change/stop production of GTA:VC? You can't change rules or laws, and introduce made-up ones, just to suit your effort to garner a few votes from fanatical parents.
GTA (Score:1)
You know, characters in Fight Club really seemed to suggest that destroying skysc
Re:GTA (Score:2)
Actually, Joseph Stalin killed over twice as many people as Hitler did, but Stalin didn't descriminate. He rounded up millions of his own people during his "purges", labeling them traitors, and sent them to gulag (Siberian labor camps), including heros of the siege of Stalingrad who were getting too popular for their own good.
Crossing the Line (Score:2, Insightful)
I think that this effects much more than M-rated games now that the State of Florida is getting involved. When Rockstar and Take Two self-censored, I didn't like it, but it was their decision. However, to use political muscle to try to censor the comment that the Haitian group misinterpreted is fascism. The Florida Attorney General should be removed. No matter how you slice it, it's protected speech. Not to menti
Re:Crossing the Line (Score:2)
Correct me if I'm wrong (which I know someone will), but wasn't there a big stink about six to ten months ago when some judge, in his infinite wisdom, declared video games not to be protected speech?
Re:Crossing the Line (Score:2, Informative)
In short, St. Louis County tried to limit the access of mature games to children, won its initial case, but had it overturned. Here's [cnn.com] more information.
Ok, answer me this... (Score:1)
Since GTA:VC hit the shelves, how much of an increase in Hatian murders has occured? How much of an increase in Cuban murders has occured? And how many of all the Hatian/Cuban murders in the period since GTA:VC was released are not related to gang crime between existing rival gangs?
Answer me that, showing me a significant increase that can
along those lines (Score:3, Interesting)
Politcally Correct Art (Score:1, Redundant)
Im definetly not advocating discrimination, but it is a part of human nature. Do we have to ignore it to remain politcally correct? The same goes for certain words that are now considered taboo. But what if someone was writing a book with a character who might use those words? Do they have to censor themselves?
IMHO politcal correctness has sheilded the real issue
Hmm... (Score:2)
Ok, lets replace the line with "kill the bastards" instead of "kill the haitians" - this makes no difference to the context. In that case, the 'particular group of people' we are being told to kill are SPECIFICALLY the X number of haitian characters shooting at us, IN THE GAME.
How this could possibly be construed as a hate crime is beyond me. Su
Games on the shelves now? (Score:2, Insightful)
What this amounts to is that the censor-happy idiots weren't able to block the game because fo the sex and violence like they wanted to, and so they had to resort to getting it on a crap charge like this.
The censors never win in the long run.
Re:Games on the shelves now? (Score:2)
I am not saying that this is even a realistic option, but honestly I don't see any way to appease the offended mob at this point. A lot of people have been against GTA3 from day one and this out of context hate thing is just a cause to champion before the neutral public. I think that the anti-"Kilographic" (those are quotes of disdain BTW) games people are just drooling over the marketing potentia
You are wrong. (Score:2)
It is all about money.
missing the point (Score:2)
What the hell COULD Rockstar do at this point? (Score:2)
It's impossible to alter the games that have already been sold, or at least the PS2 versions. An XBox patch might be possible, and a patch for the PC versions is almost a certainty. Still...what do they do with the PS2 versions?
The hard drive hasn't been released yet, so there appear to be only two viable options. Either try to destroy all existing copies of the game and replace them at no cost, which would cost a huge amount of money, or find some way to alter the game vi
They should have known better... (Score:1)
Re:They should have known better... (Score:3, Insightful)
I take it you haven't seen Three Kings [imdb.com].
should be protected (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems that our local governments have forgotten that freedom is the key. The judge should remind them of this and toss it out of court.
If I want to make a product, and there is a market for the product, I should be able to sell it on the market. It should be up to the retailers to decide if they want to put it on the shelf.
The leftist or rightist or whatevers will always be yelling about right and wrong, but thats their opinion and they are allowed to say it.
The product is already listed as an adult game. For end users that are responsible enough to understand the game is fiction.
"kill the Haitians" is simply a line in the plot of a fictional game. If they started a kill the Haitians advertising campaign available to the public eye, thats different.
Re:should be protected (Score:2)
Still, in this case I think it's pretty stupid. You're role-playing a gangster. Going around gratuitously killing lots of people is what gangsters do. I mean you can equal well argue that the game promotes dangerous driving or mowing down pedestrians. The cartoon level of violence that the game portrays is hardly different, probably far less graphic than reading a book. And it's not as if Haitians
Re:should be protected (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:incitement to racial hatred (Score:2)
Re:should be protected (Score:2)
"kill the Haitians" is simply a line in the plot of a fictional game. If they started a kill the Haitians advertising campaign available to the public eye, thats different.
You think the outcry would be any different if Rockstar had decided to name the gang "Mexicans" or "Southern Hicks"?
This should suprise no one... the lawsuit may not have a leg to stand on, but it makes you wonder if there isn't a guy a rockstar who hates people from Haiti and is responsible for this whole thing.
From now on.. (Score:3, Insightful)
They weren't targeted specifically in the game. The game leveraged and/or poked fun at a plethora of stereotypes. They need to get the fuck over it.
Re:From now on.. (Score:2)
check yourself (Score:2)
Rockstar's Mistake (Score:5, Insightful)
Rockstar should have done the right thing for all games everywhere and fought this out in court as a free speech issue, which it clearly is.
Wont be long till we see other developers and publishers get sued, or worst of all banned or censored industry wide. If you though games were getting too many sequels and relying too much on franchise IP because publishers were not will to take risks, I can only imagine how much harder it will be to make original games with realistic content.
Rockstar announcement (Score:3, Funny)
The machine will then be used to back to the paleozoic era and Rockstar employees will then wipe out all life on earth as we know it, applying the only possible way to never offend anyone ever again.
Speaking of prejudice... (Score:4, Insightful)
"American society is racist, even though there are antiracist laws," Lesly Voltaire, minister for Haitians living abroad, told The Herald. "It's based on a formerly slave-owning society, which has left its mark, and there are people who think they can make money on that racism."
And it's not offensive and prejudicial when a government official from another country makes a judgement on an entire society based on a practice abolished over 100 years ago?
The world makes me so mad, and this issue is just idiotic.
Watch out for the opportunitsts (Score:1)
I can see eBay auctions now:
-- BANNED uncensored GTA game!
-- rare GTA original version, low re$erve!
-- HOT GTA GAME recalled InSuLtInG FUNNY!
There is a ton of tongue-in-cheek ethnic humor in that game. Jaysus Christ on a jumped-up, chariot driven crutch --- will Comedy Central be the next target?!
Two Words (Score:3, Insightful)
I know this will result in a discussion of "is it ok to make potentially racist material available to children?" but IMHO, that's where parenting comes in.
Shut up (Score:1)
Manufacturers of Scrabble are next (Score:5, Funny)
World Scrabble champion Hzbrgzny Zgknyskqjz of Poland is rumoured to be a key witness for the defence at the trial.
Re:Manufacturers of Scrabble are next (Score:5, Funny)
You can't make everybody happy. Deal with it.
Perhaps they should retract it (Score:2)
If the apology does not accomplish that goal, perhaps they should now retract it. Use the resulting publicity to take a stand for free speech and gain some noteriety.
Just a thought. I haven't done a full analysis, I really can't without intimate knowledge about Rockstar etc., but it's worth thinking about. If the recipients aren't going to be gracious about it, perhaps it's
Knee-jerks (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, if a game were to attempt to motivate people to commit genocide, then yes, I'd agree, it probably violates some law. The problem is, even out of context, "kill the Haitians" doesn't imply killing a group of people from a particular community. It implies killing specific people, i.e. a gang. Since the Haitians that the line referred to was in reference to that gang, it's even harder to bend the facts in order to support the idea that Vice City is anti-Haitian.
Frankly, this whole fiasco is doing more to make people dislike the Haitian Community than anything Vice City did. Nobody likes misunderstanding to be used for frivilous lawsuits and the like.
Re:Knee-jerks (Score:2)
Of course you have to kill them, they hate you! (Or, they hate blokes from Scotland...)
Keep up the publicity! (Score:2)
GTA doesn't tell me to do anything (Score:2)
Holy shit, it isn't telling you to kill the Haitians. It is telling your character, Tommy Vercetti, to kill all the Haitians. If you are unable to make that distinction you are either way too young to be playing it or you have probably already killed someone before touching this game and should be locked up.
Re:GTA doesn't tell me to do anything (Score:3, Insightful)
Sigh.
You know, I really don't have feelings about most minority groups one way or the other. Except when crap like
Re:GTA doesn't tell me to do anything (Score:2)
These Haitian "community leaders" are represent their community in the same way ESR represents everyone who's ever written code. That is to say, they don't.
It's just a bunch of whiny people whining.
Kill all the Haitians (Score:2, Funny)
Just wait it out... (Score:2)
So, apparently, all we need to do is just wait a bit, and the massive tidal wave of death, carnage, and destruction will wipe out every last Haitian
Enough of this! (Score:2)
Re:Enough of this! (Score:3, Interesting)
Hate crimes refer to a specific class of crimes that are always illegal, but have punishments elevated by being classified as a hate crime.
If you kill someone, you might be looking at, say, a second-degree murder charge. However, if it is found that you killed the other person because you hated the color of his sk
Re:Enough of this! (Score:2)
Re:Enough of this! (Score:2)
It isn't. Some random commissioner (i.e. not important and probably trying to win Haitian votes) "forwarded information on the game to a friend at the Attorney General's office". It's awfully unlikely that the state would go for this case.
IIRC, "inciting to violence" is illegal, which they might try. I'm not really familiar with crimes that fall under it, but I suspect that
Re:Enough of this! (Score:2)
Who's to determine who should get special protection? When they start prosecuting people for hate crimes committed against men, white people, Christians, and heterosexuals, then maybe my attitude toward hate crime legislation will change. But of course, if hate crimes are prosecuted equally when comm
Re: (Score:2)
Replacement dialog? (Score:3, Interesting)
Vice City is worth defending (Score:2, Interesting)
If they asked for donations for a defense fund for this game I would put up some money, as very rare an occasion as that would be for me.
If we don't pay to support the games we like, and want to see more of, the litigation and new laws will bog them down and keep developers away. A few victorys with a 10$/game defense fund for the next Manhunt could go a long way tword
The copies in the store already... (Score:2)
I'll be pissed if their next patch for the pc version alters the game. I realize I can always uninstall and play it fresh, they can't change the cd, but I bought the game last spring and understand it how its meant to be understood.
Priorities (Score:2)
Well geez... (Score:2)
So the Haitians are offended by a line in the game about killing Haitians? You know what? I'm offended that the god damned Haitians try to kill me in the game!
If this goes on... (Score:2)
"To me it sounds like this has got to be against the law," Levinson said. "To tell people to kill a particular group of people? That has to violate some law."
In other news EA Games today announced that to prevent future lawsuits they will not ask players to "kill Germans" in the upcomming sequel to their Medal of Honour WWII first person shooter. The sequel has now been renamed to Medal of Honour, Let's all live together in peace.
Pfft. (Score:2)
This is all a joke. It will fade away and be long forgotten. It's clearly protected under free speech (and last time I checked, even "race hating" speech is free.) Besides, it's a video game, with fictious characters/situations/stories.
Blah.