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The Courts Government Entertainment Games News

HardOCP Sues Infinium Over Legal Threats 326

Cebu writes "According to GameSpot, in a less than surprising move, Kyle Bennett of tech website HardOCP has decided to file a lawsuit against Infinium Labs, makers of the forthcoming Phantom PC-based 'console'. On February 27, a lawsuit was filed in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Dallas Division under the Declaratory Judgment Act to force the issue of Infinium Labs' repeated legal threats against HardOCP for an allegedly defamatory article written last year."
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HardOCP Sues Infinium Over Legal Threats

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  • by Dr Reducto ( 665121 ) * on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @10:43PM (#8459511) Journal
    Last night, I posted, and got flamed to a crisp for supporting Infinium Labs. People were posting my "Home Address" by looking at a review from 2000 and looking in the area for the name in my email address (BTW, way to go on noticing the date. You got the area of Maryland a little bit off because of that.). I know Infinium is a laughing stock among the Slashdot crowd, but here is what I have to say.

    I think this has gone a little bit too far. HardOCP posted an article that was quite misleading. I don't think they they maliciously *lied*, but definitely misled it's readers. I personnally don't feel it warrants a Libel case, however, it goes without saying: I am not a lawyer! Infinium sent the letter saying that it didn't like the article and was going to sue, and then HardOCp decided to escalate by countersueing. I bet that HardOCP could have let the "lawsuit" slide and an out of court settlement would have happened, if anything. Now there WILL be a messy legal battle.

    Additionally, I don't see how hard it is to believe in the Phantom's existence. It's just a small form factor PC tied to a VPN which is the only way to purchase games. Yes, it has VERY powerful DRM, and is Microsoft's TCPA wet-dream. If the back-end didn't come together, Infinium could still make a killing selling complete systems that compete in price with the Shuttle barebones kits. It's standard PC hardware, with a few custom add-ons to integrate the hardware&softwaresides of the DRM scheme.

    [Disclaimer: Views expressed are my own and not necessarily representative of those of Infinium Labs]
  • by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @10:47PM (#8459539)
    A little quick googling on the term Storm &Hemingway [google.com] reveals that the law firms primary business is usually on the plantiff's side of copyright and trademark disputes... they're the guys who go after those who are infringing.

    Nice to see that they can take a /. friendly position too...
  • Good job HardOCP (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jimbosworldorg ( 615112 ) <slashdot@jimboswo r l d.org> on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @10:49PM (#8459553) Homepage
    I'm glad HardOCP is putting their money right where their mouth is. I'm sick and tired of seeing people back fearfully away from any jackass with a lawyer.

    After all, failure to stand up to legal badgering is exactly WHY we're such a litigious society today - because of the payoff.

  • Re:Lawyer Central? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @10:51PM (#8459567)
    >> Slashdot has now become... Grokdot! (er... well we could make it Slashlaw, but...)

    SlashGrok would be better. I'm not sure what symbols you would use to represent it, though, both /? and /! don't look quite right.
  • by amuro98 ( 461673 ) on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @10:56PM (#8459607)
    As SCO has shown us, when you can't make money by producing useful products, you can always make money by suing people.

    The article that Inifium is annoyed at is over a year old now. Wasn't Infium's Phantom supposed to have already hit the market by now?

    If anything, HardOCP's article should act as a warning to investors that infinium is just a scam.
  • by Amarok.Org ( 514102 ) on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:01PM (#8459651)
    It's not such a strange move... if you're afraid that a particular firm might get used against you, you engage their services first. You prevent your opponent from being able to use them, as no firm can represent both sides in a dispute (it's just a minor conflict of interest).
  • Re:Suggestion: (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:03PM (#8459663)
    >> New section for this website: lawsuits

    Graphic suggestion: Justitia (Lady Justice) as a Borg. I suggest a cute one like Seven of Nine, robe optional.
  • by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:09PM (#8459701)
    They didn't escalate, they just called Infinium's bluff. If I'm reading the news right, the legal action here concerns solely the matters that Infinium's original threats of legal action were based on. There is no escalation here at all, they've just moved the venue of discussion.

    To call the bluff would just be responding to the threat of a lawsuit with a challenge to sue. This is a little further, HardOCP filed the lawsuit for them...
  • by ChaoticLimbs ( 597275 ) on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:11PM (#8459714) Journal
    If you ARE a phantom BETA tester I have to ask- Have you received your hardware? Have you played games on the system? What games?
  • by kamikazichaser ( 670854 ) on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:12PM (#8459719)
    Hang on, how did HardOCP mislead their readers? I read the article and now have the distinct impression that the phantom gaming console will remain just that: a phantom. It also appears that IL's claims of having many game developers signed up were at least premature if not completely false. It seems to me that this is exactly what someone should get out of the article and has been supported by independent sources. Malicious or not, Steve, the author, didn't lie as far as I can tell. What IL wants Kyle to remove from HardOCP are Steve's opinions and the information he used to form those opinions. I don't think that's going to happen without a court order.

    As for a messy legal battle, perhaps you don't understand what they filed. Kyle filed a "declaratory judgment lawsuit" in order to "clear the air and terminate the flurry of demands, allegations, and defamatory Internet posts directed against HardOCP..." This will bring the situation to a head. Hopefully, it will also be the first step to end this rather silly situation.

    But really, do you feel that IL has been honest and open about the state of their, um, product?
  • Re:Lawyer Central? (Score:0, Interesting)

    by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:27PM (#8459806)
    Well-researched? HardOCP admitted [hardocp.com] that there were a few mistakes in their first article.
  • by gaijin99 ( 143693 ) on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:34PM (#8459847) Journal
    You must remember, free speech does not come "free".
    While true, it ain't right. Our legal system is seriously broken when person foo can say something truthful about megacorp bar and because he doesn't have money for a fancy gang of lawyers he gets taken to the cleaners. That's the way it is, but that doesn't mean that's the way it should be.
    When I say they should have kept things quiet and let things slide, I meant a compromise reached by both sides.
    HardOCP offered compromise early in the game, they received a threat and politely offered to correct any (imaginary as it turns out) factual errors. I have a more hardline view: when any person or corp has a legal threat as their first resort I think that compromise has already gone out the window. The person threatening legal action has already discarded compromise as an option. More to the point that sort of oppressive nastyness should not be met with any toleration at all. Anyone who's thought process goes: "I don't like what this person is saying so I'll get my high power legal team to threaten his entire livelyhood" deserves no sympathy. The only appropriate action is to do whatever is in your power to ruin them because they've already decided to try and ruin you.

    Had Infinitum Labs sent a non-legally threatening letter politely noting factual errors and requesting that they be corrected things would be different. But from what I can tell the thought of trying a non-litigous solution never crossed their minds. So screw 'em.

  • Great advertising (Score:0, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:43PM (#8459895)
    I can't think of a better way to increase readership than what Hardocp is doing. I doubt seriously there's any risk. Hell I should start a web site and sue SCO, I bet I'd be in the top 10 most read within days.
  • by Lunabean ( 758377 ) on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:45PM (#8459910)
    I shared a few of my thoughts on the other Infinium Labs post, but as the day has gone on, I've thought more about it and have a few more questions.

    Now, as I understand libel, for the case to stand, two things need to be proven. First, the accused deliberately lied. Second, the accuser needs proof that they were damaged by said lies. Now, the first is hard enough to prove. I, personally, don't think HardOCP set out to mislead and lie in their article, but I could see how that could be debated. However, I don't think Infinium Labs has an iota of a chance proving HardOCP's article, published five months ago, has hurt their company. Infinium Labs doesn't even have a product on the market yet, and, as someone else pointed out, type in "Phantom Console" into Google and you'll find several slams on the company.

    If Infinium Labs doesn't get launch that it expects, they only have themselves and their sketchy business practices to blame. They are an enigma wrapped in a puzzle drizzled with secret sauce. They created the atmosphere for speculation...and people began to speculate.

    Now, I'm not someone who plans on linking to my site with every post I make here, but, again, I am linking to the message that was posted on my forums yesterday. It is a copy of the e-mail sent to HardOCP, before HardOCP made it public.

    I checked the e-mail of the poster, which began with "twcbinc". I Googled that and it led me to a user at the Console Gamer Network [ocgn.com]. The user's e-mail at the Network was timr@phantom.net. Now, this didn't mean much, but it was interesting. A mod on my boards also found the post odd and traced the IP to Infinium Labs.

    Now, I'm not saying this is illegal, or even bad, but I think it's sketchy, to say the least...and I think acts like this pretty much destroy any libel case they may have. Infinium Labs is hurting themselves with every step they make...and I think any judge who looks at their tactics and history will see that. Here's the link to the post on my boards: http://www.lunabean.com/forums/index.php?showtopic =2428 [lunabean.com]

  • by Satan's Librarian ( 581495 ) * <mike@codevis.com> on Wednesday March 03, 2004 @11:50PM (#8459943) Homepage
    Kinda funny, Phantom registered "Built by Gamers, for Gamers" - there's a "tm" at the end of the product sheet [phantom.net] on their site. Apparently, it actually is registered [uspto.gov], too.

    But, seems like that's a pretty [wiredlabs.com] common [rainhosting.com] phrase [cybereps.com] in the [xtreme-solutions.com] industry [zeuspc.com] and has [themultiplayer.com] been [ideazon.com] so for years [microsoft.com]....

    Hell, it's even used to refer to [H]ard|OCP's own RatPadz [thetechzone.com].

    A poster above suggested a new section on Slashdot for lawsuits... I think that's a great idea. SCO's newsworthy lawsuits may be dying out finally, but Phantom might keep the section viable for a year by itself. Especially if that "Pre-Order" link starts working and consumers get suckered as well as investors, or if they decide to defend their *cough* "Intellectual Property" *cough* by suing half the gaming industry for trademark infringement.

    Wonder if that's where they hope to make a profit?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 04, 2004 @12:09AM (#8460055)
    Dear Friends,

    When I first heard about Infinium I was curious myself, especially since it's hq is my hometown. After reading the original article, I too drove down to longboat key and saw the supposed "hq" which indeed fit the description in the article. Shortly thereafter, they did acquire some very nice rental space on main st. I haven't been in the building, but rent is definitely not cheap in this area.

    The local paper has had a number of articles about Infinium and they might be of interest. You can find them at www.heraldtribune.com.

    I too looked for info on the founder, and his own resume which I found published on the Internet did indeed make him seem like a shady, take your money and run type. The fact that he lives on Longboat Key where the median family income is $107,983 shows that he's done pretty well. [wikipedia] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longboat_Key%2C_Flori da
  • by gserafini ( 76060 ) on Thursday March 04, 2004 @12:29AM (#8460147) Homepage Journal

    I worked for Tim Roberts at GlobalStreams under BIG. I was the webmaster for the only company that was purchased (rather than being created out of thin air) by BIG.

    My observation of the general business strategy that was followed at BIG could be summed up in one phrase: "Fake it 'til you make it." When we were working under the [BIG] umbrella, it was remarkable. At one point our company was instructed to hire people, not necessarily because we needed more people, but rather to increase headcount. They were still hiring until 1 or 2 weeks before BIG shut down.

    The often-expressed doubts surrounding this company and it's product (the name is completely telling) I believe are well founded. Simply reading the Phantom FAQ [phantom.net] and their product specs should be instant signs to any observant individual.

    Step 1: Create website. (See their job postings for 3d renderers, Flash developers, etc...) Make it cool, fill it with the latest (OBVIOUS) buzzwords. DRM. Pay-per-play. Promise to deliver the cool dream application that might be possible.

    Step 2: Try to [maybe] actually deliver a product. Image is everything here, gotta keep the investors happy and the money flowing.

    Step 3: ???

    Step 4: Prof^H^H^H Take the money and spend it / run. Anyone who might think about investing in this company, or who even really hopes that what they say or sell might be worth spending some money on should do some research, due diligence and move on with their life.

    I often had a hard time working in an atmosphere where it was more important to seem successful than to _BE_ successful.

    BIG didn't work out. A lot of people quit perfectly good jobs to work with Tim and were pissed when it didn't work out. They spent a LOT of money. After that experience for some reason I REALLY wanted to work in an environment where, say for example, a real product was worked on to solve a real problem, that had real customers.

    Ah, the bitch of the reputation economy. Hope I don't get sued for sharing my personal experience and opinions.

    --
    Gabriel

  • Suspicious (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 04, 2004 @12:56AM (#8460306)
    Something I noticed that raises doubts over how serious Infinium really is... If you look at the tech specs for the machine it specifies an nVidia chip for the graphics and the nVidia logo is displayed on the site but if you look at nVidia's press section there's no press release mentioning any kind of relationship with Infinium. Take a look at the kind of press releases they do make and you'll see that they announce pretty much any partnership, even pretty minor stuff. Seems that if they had some kind of agreement to supply Infinium with any significant number of chips they'd have made an announcement.
  • by Attaturk ( 695988 ) * on Thursday March 04, 2004 @01:25AM (#8460429) Homepage
    But surely that's a good point. Quoting the article:

    In a press release soon to be made public, lawyers representing KB Networks (the Bennett-founded entity that owns HardOCP), refers to the suit as one based on a legal statue commonly referred to as the "Declaratory Judgment Act." HardOCP lawyers explain the act as one that "permits a person or entity being threatened with lawsuits from another party to force the issue to be decided, rather than having to operate under a cloud of uncertainty and intimidation."

    Could linux users use the same approach to sue SCO for threating them too??
  • "..will have.."?!? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by PhoenixOne ( 674466 ) on Thursday March 04, 2004 @02:03AM (#8460594)
    They said they "will have" a both at the 2003 GDC, E3, and even the "Xtream Dev Conf" (for the 50 people that showed up I guess ;)). I'm not ready to write them off 100%, but they are always "about to show" us something great but never do. It is hard to trust them.

    Maybe this will be the second coming of home entertainment, but until I see a dev machine with my own eyes (hey, I signed up as a developer over a year ago!) they are not worth my time.

  • by Sangui5 ( 12317 ) on Thursday March 04, 2004 @03:49AM (#8461021)
    Saying that it isn't a strange move is an understatement--large corps regularly retain counsel simply to monopolize the availability of the best firms. On the up side, that every large corp is attempting this tends to fragment the law firms--if Ford has a firm on retainer, then somebody else can hire that firm to fight Toyota, and vise versa. So the little guy isn't completely screwed, unless you'd like to sue an entire industry. But if you have that many enemies, you're SOL anyway...
  • by black mariah ( 654971 ) on Thursday March 04, 2004 @03:59AM (#8461062)
    Under basic business sense you don't want to piss off your target audience by screwing with websites they frequent. That's another reason why Infinium wouldn't want to go after PA, because PA has a LARGE readership and every one of them is a potential customer. HardOCP, on the other hand, is geared more toward computer hardware than consoles (I am aware they cover consoles too, but it's mainly about computers).

    The comics PA does are one thing. There is very little you can say in a comic that isn't parody or protected somehow, that much is true, but the front page which usually harbors some more biting commentary is probably open season as far as libel is concerned.
  • by the arbiter ( 696473 ) on Thursday March 04, 2004 @04:06AM (#8461085)
    Perhaps someone here can help me understand: it seems that requirements for the positions at Infinium posted on Craig's List are, well, odd.

    The "Senior Software Engineer" only has to have a Bachelor's degree? Four years experience? Strange.

    No mention of what test tools are to be used. This is bizarre. They vary somewhat, experience with one or another seems to be kind of, well, important.

    What dev platform is to be employed? Seems you'd want your coders to be familiar with it. Maybe they feel that the uber-coders with 3 years experience they're hiring will be competent and churn out perfect code with any or all of them.

    Software Program Manager performing systems engineering duties? Peculiar.

    This all strikes me as somewhat odd, certainly like nothing I've seen in my dev experience. Perhaps someone more enlightened than myself can grant me the benefit of their wisdom, for I am puzzled. Or geniunely retarded.
  • by Walkiry ( 698192 ) on Thursday March 04, 2004 @06:14AM (#8461466) Homepage
    that the Phantom forums have been shut down for a while now? I guess *someone* saw this one coming and decided to conveniently tell the boss it'd be a good idea to "upgrade to a better forum software" as soon as possible.

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