PlayStation 3 Unveiled 905
The PlayStation 3 was unveiled yesterday afternoon in a press conference at Sony Pictures Studio. The event was full of beautiful demonstrations, specifications, and talk of the games of tomorrow. The machine is certainly impressive, with backwards compatibility, support for up to seven Bluetooth controllers, multiple HD signals, and intimate interactions with the PSP. Coverage, screenshots, and specs available from 1up.com, Gamespot, Joystiq, NYT, Voodoo Extreme, Gamespy, BBC, GamesIndustry.biz, Engadget, Anandtech, Kotaku, Gamasutra, and CNN Money. The only downside I see so far? The controller. Update: 05/18 21:35 GMT by Z : Gamespot has up a comprehensive look at the console based on what is known so far.
Analog sticks (Score:2, Interesting)
My thumbs surrender.
Why 7? (Score:4, Interesting)
Seems a step back... 8-way FIFA games are awesome!
Don't pre-judge the controller, folks (Score:4, Interesting)
MS Ready To Pull The Plug On The 360? (Score:1, Interesting)
backward compatable! -Blu Ray (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting to compare tatics, as MS is ending xbox games development this year and Sony is continuing for 2 more. Nintendo is also continueing development.
Also playstation will be backward compatable. This is great, because there will be a huge library of working games for it. Also they get that games are not just about the graphics, so HD will not be requires
From NYT
"
While every Xbox 360 title must be developed in high definition, Sony officials are playing down that aspect of the new PlayStation. "Blu-ray technology guarantees the highest graphic quality," said Jack Tretton, executive vice president of Sony Computer Entertainment America. "HD is not the be-all and end-all," Mr. Tretton said, noting that the depth of game play could be more important.
Microsoft executives have decided to end internal development of games for the current Xbox this year, but Sony will continue to create titles for the PlayStation 2.
"We'd be crazy to abandon them," said Mr. Tretton, speaking of PlayStation 2 owners.
Like the XBox controller (Score:5, Interesting)
I like the old PSX controllers, except for one point: the grips are too small for my hands; after a couple hours of intense gameplay, my hands ache from trying to squeeze something so small. The XBox controllers, on the other hand, fit my hands quite nicely (although I don't really like where the buttons are), and everyone seemed to pick on the controllers back when the XBox was released.
programmability (Score:2, Interesting)
-- im TIRED. leave me alone
Controller (Score:3, Interesting)
someone with CPU knowledge? (Score:4, Interesting)
PS3: [yahoo.com] PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE * 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
to the xbox360: [xbox.com]
Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
Two hardware threads per core; six hardware threads total
VMX-128 vector unit per core; three total
128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
1 MB L2 cache
Also, what is XDR RAM? I've never heard of it, but the PS3 has 256MB of it running at 3.2GHz. It also has 256MB of GDDR3 VRAM at 700MHz.
The xbox360 has 512MB GDDR3 RAM at 700MHz unified, for the ATI video chip and CPU to share. How will these compare? Unified vs 256MB of blazing fast? Is it too late and or costly for Microsoft to switch to XDR?
Re:someone with CPU knowledge? (Score:3, Interesting)
Killzone (Score:5, Interesting)
Except they look a bit too good. Almost, dare I say it, pre-rendered. Has Sony done the ultimate and presented a completely non-PS3, non-game 3D animation as actual gameplay?
Bluetooth? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Don't pre-judge the controller, folks (Score:1, Interesting)
Never mind the battery/recharge issues, I CAN NOT STAND WIRELESS CONTROLLER LAG! They ALL suck. I have yet to use one without lag issues. Games like Soul Caliber II and Tekken (and I'm sure many others) have moves that require 1 frame precision. Even simple things like A+B becomes A~B due to wireless lag.
If the Xbox 360 or PS3 have laggy controllers with no solution in sight, I'm NOT buying the system. It's simply not enjoyable to play with broken controllers.
controller (Score:3, Interesting)
2 Teraflops?? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:burner (Score:2, Interesting)
Jesus. Look, when a drive is said to support "CD,CDR,CDRW,DVD,DVDR,DVDRW" etc..etc.. that doesn't necessarily mean that it can write to them. It just means that it can read from them.
So just because the XBox 360 press release said "CDR" support doesn't mean it's going to have a burner.
Try and use a bit of critical thought in future. Here, I'll give you a start
Q.What advantages would MS get from building a CD/DVD burner into the XBox? What disadvantages would result?
If you'd have thought about it long enough to come up with that question I suspect you would also have come up with the answers
None whatsoever. Extra cost, extra point of failure, piracy etc..
Not so hard was it?
Goodbye HD-DVD, hello Blu-ray (Score:2, Interesting)
Apple will help to make the hit a home run with HDTV iMovie on a new Blu-ray sporting iMac. Watch your home movies at high resolution. They already joined the Blu-ray camp and had Sony come on stage to showcase their 1080i consumer cam. Anyone stupid enough to have bought one will be laughed at as sales persons will deem 1080p the standard; each frame is a perfect still, you can fill a photo-album with the best frames. I would not be surprised if iMovie gains a CoreVideo filter to enhance DV material to HDTV for those who can afford an iMac but not yet the camcorder which will start at outrageous 'pro-sumer' prices, but then again your kids will only once take their first steps
Sony could even disrupt the upcoming Christmas sales for Microsoft if they launch a 'prepare fo playstation 3' campaign and start selling '1080p enhanced PS3 compatible' games for the PS2 where the render engine can be network patched in the summer to render to 1080p, or where the splitscreen racer will become dual 1080p on a PS3. Or simply by enhancing the graphics of PSone puzzlers to be 1080p friendly as a tie me over / keep up the grades in your final year graduation (or you won't get a PS3) present.
Re:Microsoft vaporware (Score:2, Interesting)
Microsoft finally let the world know that the Xbox 360 will be backwards compatible with top-selling Xbox games.
It sounds to me like they'll be using some kind of Bleem! style system with software emulation being customized for only certain xbox games. Perhaps you'll need to purchase "compatibility modules" through their micropayment-driven marketplace? With Microsoft, I wouldn't put it past them.
Re:Controller (Score:4, Interesting)
Sony kept the same controller around for two console generations so you know they're not the type of company to come out with a new design just because there is a new console. They probably did hundreds of hours of user testing.
Who cares what it looks like? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
Playstation Banana (Score:5, Interesting)
It's pretty sad when I can look at an Xbox 360 Controller and say it looks better than this one.
I won't finally judge it until I actually hold one, but I dont understand why Sony would screw up a good controller design for what looks more like an asethethic change rather than a functional one, unless they had to make it bigger to hold the wireless circuity.
Exactly. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm glad to see you understand.
Don't get me wrong - I've been a computer/video/arcade gamer for 30 years now (they didn't exist for the first part of my life). I currently own two PS2s, a PC, a Linux server, a couple of Powerbooks, a GBA-SP and a PSP. (I'll omit the list of all the machines I used to own.)
I rarely play games on any of them now - I had high hopes for the PSP, but I've discovered I'm having more fun writing software to hack it than I am playing the actual games.
Re:Why 7? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Rehashed quote? (Score:2, Interesting)
But my favorite was this quote in the NYTimes: "It will also be able to display images at a high-definition resolution equivalent to that of digital projectors in movie theaters."
I'm not totally up on everything movie-related, but don't the digital projectors in theaters have many, many times the resolution of even the highest-def home TVs?
It strikes me as taking unrealistic marketing-speak to a whole new level to claim that your video game machine is capable of rendering movie-quality computer graphics at movie quality resolutions on the fly.
Finally the Review (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3live.html [gamespot.com]
The Cell processor is IBM's jewel, it might be the single killer against the x86 market. Not to mention that the Cell processor in PS3 is revision 3 while the one in the xbox is revision 2. The new cell processor is gonna knock the socks of all you folks.
Trust me
Another thing is that 7 controllers that run Blue Tooth, I don't get it either. But the main thing is that games will be more and more interactive. But the Final Fantasy games out there look amazing but beyond that the Gran Turismo games are also kick ass (please cars flip over...please ) But the Tekken for PS3 was an amazing intro. You could see Jin's muscles and sweat and then the heat rising from his body and with the punch you could see sweat fly from his fists. There was another game a FPS that was amazing where marines come in through the sky and fight on the ground urban warfare style. I don't know how much of it are rendered movies and how much is real time work but the Unreal PS3 engine was amazing, it really was the explosions with the rockets and the smoke. But beyond that they had the CEO of EA come in ( yeah I know he didn't pay overtime ) and brought in Fight Night, that was great with the facial expressions of the boxers at every punch I just can imagine Rockstar Games' new GTA will definately be something. And also there are tons of new API's in the Nvidia GFX processor subsystem that have tons of stuff, like transparency and skin diffusion, water refraction. Amazing stuff. Xbox to be cool had to come on MTV, Sony being classy just went to E3 and showed who's who what there lil box can do. But over all whole press conference was kick ass, marketing venture yes. But the xbox360 on MTV was so
But the dual HD output is great, and it also takes VGA
But the estiemated price of the PS3 is $250 for just the gaming rig and $500 for the works. But definately they will sell there console for a loss.And make money on the games. Looking at the way the PSP sold I wouldn't be suprised it would sell for US$300.
Also our beloved Hedijo Kojima of MGS showed up, may the Lord Bless his soul, yes there is going to be a MGS for the PS3.
The xbox 360 has major major competiton. Cell technology puts them on the same playing field including the Nintendo Revolution. What makes them different are the games they have to offer. Even with life like reality in the end it is the simple thrill of Pong and Pacman and Mario Bros. that makes us want to play more and more games.
Frag away, Drive away, Super Combo away and what ever Final Fantasy does
Re:too many mirrors... (Score:4, Interesting)
At the debut of the PS2, Sony claimed it was 10 times as powerful as the Dreamcast, but it took quote a while before any PS2 games looked/played any better than the Dreamcast games. Now they're saying the PS3 is twice as powerful as the 360 -- in marketing speak, I'd call that a wash.
Re:Wireless Controller Worries (Score:3, Interesting)
So it begins (Score:3, Interesting)
Remember back in the day, the debates we would all have in our neighborhood backyards as kids, about how certain consoles had more bits and therefore were better?
Looks like *flops are the new bits.
Re:Killzone (Score:3, Interesting)
That doesn't necessarily mean that we all *do* believe it, though.
HD, right on time (Score:5, Interesting)
I've got a 6600 GT, which is able to keep that 1280x1024 filled with data, no problem. So if the card on the PS3 is equivalent to an SLI linked pair of 6800's, it's got more than enough power to pull that off with insane levels of detail.
It seems to me that the XBox is an evolutionary step, taking the XBox, making it a better performing system, and including the obvious enhancements. The PS3 seems to be trying to set the ground work for the next level. Sony is thinking way beyond being the next generation game platform and media hub here.
While XBox can play on HD, what formats does it support? It's just a DVD player, non? The PS3 does Blu-ray, and that will allow it to play high definition movies. Of all the features on the PS3, this is the key piece of the pizzle. Now you may be thinking, nobody has high def movies, but Sony knows that too. Why have a format war over the next high def format when Sony can pre-empt that by having millions of PS3's that already do blu-ray? Expect Sony to begin releasing a lot of their films on Blu Ray when PS3 launches.
This is the first time I've seen Sony really take advantage of all their pieces. I mean Blu Ray has no obvious benefits over HDDVD, but if I've already got a PS3, it has a huge benefit. No matter what people think of the 360, the PS3 will sell millions of units, and that will give Sony it's foot hold. From there, they make money on:
1) Selling games
2) Royalties on the Blue Ray format
3) Selling everybody their favorite movies all over again in high definition
4) Selling TV's that take advantage of all of these capabilities
Very very smart, IMHO. Microsoft has a serious problem here because they can only make up their hardware losses on game licensing. Sony has a lot of channels they can use and it actually will create markets for them that do no currently exist. Microsoft will just sell more games but otherwise be doing the same thing they have done.
Re:Xbox 360 v. PS3 (Score:3, Interesting)
Then you have the option of buying the HD for the PS3, which is what most people will probably do anyway. Carrying a big box and a small box home from best buy won't be much more work then carrying one big box home.
I'm not expecting budget price at all, I'm expecting them to price for people with too much income and not enough dependents (enough of them around to take care of the first few shipments before they drop the price).
I dissagree (Score:4, Interesting)
At Home I watch DVD in 1080p straight from my computer on a 10' front projection screen (yes it is upconverted). Then I click a dial to watch HDTV off of my cablebox which comes out Component and goes through a component to VGA adapter.
The point is the Playstation 3 might be the appliance that truly ushers in HDTV as most everyone has VGA monitors that can be used as an entry level HDTV system, and unlike the crappy rear projection stuff you see at BestBuy and Wal-Mart these will work at 1080p not just 1080i or 720p.
Re:someone with CPU knowledge? (Score:3, Interesting)
Tech Specs vs. Games (Score:4, Interesting)
Generic Racing Game:
Graphics...
X-Box:360 - 6 stunning cars on a track.
PS3 - 12 stunning cars on a track.
AI...
X-Box:360 - 6 cars fighting it out for their share of 3 PowerPCs.
PS3 - 12 cars each running their AI on a separate sub processor that's optimized specifically for that task.
Flight Sim:
X-Box:360 - 10-15 planes filling the skies.
PS3 - 20-30 planes filling the skies making for truly chaotic dogfights.
Space Sim:
X-Box:360 - The original cut of StarWars with maybe six X-Wings and six Tie Fighters shown at any one time.
PS3 - Return Of The Jedi with waves of them coming in.
Shooter:
X-Box:360 - A platoon of enemy troops charging your squad.
PS3 - Two enemy platoons trying to flank your allied squad while you try and find a way to out flank them.
If I'm playing a WWII game, I want occasional set piece massive battles not constant squad action because the system can't handle making that number of troops look good. If I'm playing a world war two flight sim, I want to defend a thousand bomber formation not be one of two planes guarding a six plane flight of B-17s. If I'm playing a racing game, I want all the other cars of a big race, with constant jockeying for position, not an arbitrary six needed to keep the framerate decent.
I could go on. The point is, we play games, not specs. But double the amount of processing power means developers have the ability to put double the amount of content on screen at any one time (assuming they don't simply increase detail on existing numbers). Double the amount of adversaries etc. makes for much better, more realistic games.
So, directly, I don't care that much about the tech specs. I care about the games. But the tech specs give the developers far more freedom to make the games I want to play.
As for proof of that power differential: I could argue about how [only when well coded] massively parallel simple processors can blow the crap out of only a couple of very powerful, highly generic processors. You build a processor that can do hundreds of different complex multimedia tasks - great - but half that silicon isn't getting used for any given specific instruction whereas it's all getting used in massively parallel simpler units and, because they're simpler, they can be optimized to cycle faster.
Regardless of theory though, there's a far simpler solution - take a look at the demos. The X-Box:360 demos look good. Great even. They're definitely an incremental improvement over the current generation. The PS3 demos, however, look like something a movie studio rendered. It's like the difference between companies doing better and better stop motion animation and what Weta did with huge numbers of troops in Lord Of The Rings. That is why I'm tending to believe the PS3 claims. They may just be tech demos, not real games. But what tech demos they are.
Re:Xbox 360 v. PS3 (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:too many mirrors... (Score:3, Interesting)
Given the current limitations of games, that's has been very true. But imagine a game with a massive, persistent, seamless, fractaly generated map. With the right game design, "found" features of this landscape could be developed by players into defencive zones, just like in real life. The gameplay could balance itself.
It's a tough, but solvable, challenge. The game that delivers it will win the console wars.
PSP as Thin Client to PS3 (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:backward compatable! -Blu Ray (Score:3, Interesting)
People aren't going to replace their current DVDs. Well, not most of us. I still have a bunch of VHS tapes, for that matter, and I'm not re-purchasing those on DVD as a general rule. But, WHEN we get HD displays, AND happen to have a PS3 because we want to play GTA:USA (or whatever), we'll want _new_ movies we purchase look at least as good on our HD consoles as our games, and we'll want as few disks taking up space on our shelves as possible. A few of our favorite DVDs with serious cinematography, we'll replace those ( I'm thinking the Lord of the Rings movies, stuff like that ). We certainly won't buy more DVDs when higher-definition sources with more content per disc are available... IF the player is cheap enough and/or already in the house because we wanted a PS3.
It's clear from your post you don't have an HD display. If you get your hands on one, compare an early-generation DVD with a newer one that lists itself as "Widescreen Animorphic" or "Enhanced for HD". The second one will blow the first away, and an HD-DVD or BD disc on a 1080i or 1080p player will likely blow the regular DVD away in a similar manner. The BD disc will also have plenty of room to sqeeze in even more extra features on a single disc, or collapse 2-3 disc sets to one.
You're right with a condition. Until you get an HD display, there's no need for another DVD format. Once you do, DVD, even multi-layer, is a bit restrictive.
Re:Controller (Score:2, Interesting)
The other really annoying thing is the screw holes on the underside that leave indentations on my hand and give a weird itching sensation when playing for a long time.
I'm looking forward to trying this new controller.
Re:Tech Specs vs. Games (Score:4, Interesting)
Hasn't Sony been busted many times before for doing just that with their "tech demo" footage? How much you wanna bet that most of the demos shown were not running in real-time on a Playstation 3?
Re:Killzone see http://ve3d.ign.com/#615152 (Score:1, Interesting)
Epic's Mark Rein On Playstation 3 E3 Footage 11:02 am - Andrew Burnes - Consoles: PS3 (5 comments)
Epic's Mark Rein dropped by our forums to clear up all the hoohah regarding the Playstation 3 footage from yesterday's unveiling:
In addition to the Sony demos being shown by Phil Harrison, the EPIC AND EA PRESENTATIONS WERE THE ONLY THIRD PARTY PORTIONS ACTUALLY RUNNING ON THE PS3 IN REAL-TIME. But most of those movies, which I probably watched 3 or 4 during rehearsals for the event, look very achievable and some were probably rendered on the actual box but in non-real-time. When a system is year away, heck even with a system is 6 months away, it is reasonable to expect the power of the dev kits would still only be a fraction of the power of the final system.
I know we'll certainly be able to achieve much more on the final box than we were able to show in our demo after working with the early dev kit for only ~2 months. As Tim mentioned our demo only really showed off the power of RSX and then still we're talk about an RSX that's nowhere near as fast as the final one will be. When we get home from E3 we'll also start diving seriously into the power of the cell processor. This is a very powerful system!
Sony's cell demos were extremely cool and inspiring but are totally achievable, and over time even surpassable, by third developers like us because, as Tim Sweeney said, the development environment is made up of parts we're already intimately familiar with: OpenGL, NVIDIA graphics, Linux, and PowerPC. Think about Epic's experience, for example. We rock on NVIDIA hardware. We have been doing OpenGL since Unreal1. We regularly ship our games on Linux and we've won several Macintosh Game of the Year awards including a special World-Wide Design Award directly from Apple for UT2004. We're going to be able to kick serious ass on PS3, and so are a lot of our licensees and other 3rd party developers, in a way that wasn't remotely possible on past consoles.
I should add that we're in a similar position for XBOX360. It's also made up of parts we're intimately familiar with.
My point is that developers are going to be able to get SO MUCH MORE power out of these consoles than they ever could in the past and so much closer to the raw power of the components.
The next generation is just going to be AMAZING!!! Next gen games will be a huge leap forward over current gen.
Can you tell I'm excited?
Thanks a bunch for the comments Mark, always appreciated.
Re:Figments of imagination vs. real [demos] (Score:2, Interesting)
ok... let me make it clear then.
i don't need to see demos. i'll see them plenty enough tomorrow when i head off to e3.
i work for a game publisher and we are currently making games for both ps3 and xbox 360 using the unreal 3 engine (which many other game developers are also using to make next-gen games, and it's well known so i'm not breaking nda here). both games will be running off basically the same codebase and assets.
now tell me... will one look and play significantly better than the other by any leaps and bounds? if they are seen side-by-side, will you be able to tell the difference?
you are mentioning first party exclusive titles that are not also being developed on the other platform(s), so there can be no direct comparison made.
maybe the second or third wave of games for this next gen will widen the gap between which console is more "powerful" than the other, but even then, most games will be similar and look similar. with PS2 v. XBOX 1, it's truly the case. same with SNES v. Genesis, etc. where you will see a major difference from the get-go is with online play (microsoft seems to have their stuff together) and with major existing franchises and original ip (sony and nintendo seem to have this going for them).
which brings me back to my point. imo, the best determining factor of what next-gen console one should get should depend on what first party exclusive titles you want... because the rest of the major games will be made for both systems anyway.
we are far beyond the days when you could tell at first glance which game system x game is on.