Free60 Project Aims for Linux on Xbox 360

BlueMoon writes "The Free60 Project wiki and developers mailinglist has been launched. The project aims to port open source operating systems like GNU/Linux and Darwin to the Microsoft Xbox 360 gaming console. The site already contains some interesting details about the Xbox 360 security: per-box key stored on CPU, boot ROM will be on CPU too and a hypervisor verifies the running state of the kernel."

Hypervisor

[jurt1235]

Assuming that the hypervisor technology in the xbox360 is really the IBM hypervisor, than the linux community could have access to the patents involved in this technology, making it a lot easier (as in really tough job to in just a bit less realy tough job) to get linux running on the xbox. Maybe it is possible to run it in a VM under xbox windows (I guess internally in microsoft this might be called xwindows).

Re:Odd Timing

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a rumour, they were running games on that setup at trade shows.

Re:My Thoughts Exactly

[Khuffie]

Umm...the PS2 was sold at a loss, as was the PSP, so will the PS3. The only company that doesn't sell at a loss is Nintendo.

holy mangled facts, batman

[Oopsz]

He's a motivational psychologist studying performance and reward, his name is Csikszentmihalyi, and he's Hungarian, not Indian.

Re:Hypervisor

[Kadin2048]

I just read through the site and I don't think there's any evidence to show that the hypervisor that it's being speculated is used by the x360 is the same one that's been developed by IBM. The IBM one I believe is designed for large scale use on big iron, providing abstraction and security services to virtual machines; the xBox one is just to monitor the kernel for modifications and checksum the RAM against stored values in the processor. They seem so different in scope that I'm not sure it's a good assumption to think that they're the same thing, or that the MS one isn't just something they cooked up in-house. There doesn't seem to be any strong evidence that they're the same, and the Slashdot article link just seems to be something the author pulled out of Google.

Also, if you read on the Free60 documentation site, it's apparent that the factoids being discussed, including the only mention of the hypervisor, are being attributed to "someone on the IRC" -- not exactly a reputable source.

Re:this is good for microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

It's "lose", not "loose".

Re:Nice try

[EvanED]

The real questions are: is there a hack that requires so little effort from the part of the user that it is worth the trouble, and if so, how long until it is discovered ?

There probably is, but if the state of the original Xbox is any indication, it'll be a Long Time (TM) before it's found. To the best of my knowledge there is still no crack for the Xbox that doesn't involve hardware modification. Once you get into hardware probably very few people will attempt it. Too risky.

heat, power, shock, size, noise

[SuperBanana]

I've long thought that the only reason MS decided to go with the smaller laptop drives is their drastically reduced capacity.

That doesn't really make any sense. More likely: heat, power consumption, shock resistance, noise, and physical size. Especially heat/power/size, which are critical for a "console" game; just look at the problems with the overheating power adapters...

Re:Nice try

[AngryUndead]

Softmodding involves a buffer overflow exploit using modified savegames for certain games, and involves no hardware modification.

Re:But they do care if..

[EvanED]

if they sell millions of xboxs then the prices of components will fall.

But so will the price of the Xbox. Especially in probably about 3-4 months when the PS3 is released.

Re:My Thoughts Exactly

[Microlith]

To a point. The PS2 has been earning profits on the hardware for a couple years now.

The PSP... who knows. The PS3 will be sold at a loss for some time, but will likely start turning a profit after a while.

The XBOX is the only console to lose money over its entire lifespan. It remains to be seen if MSFT can contract the cost of manufacturing enough to bring unit production cost under sale cost and turn a profit on the XBOX360. Since they own the rights to everything in the system, it's entirely possible.

Re:About that Mac Mini

[Andy Dodd]

Yeah, for general purpose code, the cores aren't too hot.

For signal processing applications, and stuff that's compiled with an intelligent compiler, the cores are pretty powerful. For desktop apps the CPUs will suck, but for 3D rendering and video encoding/decoding (oh yeah, audio processing too), the 360s triple-core CPU is going to be pretty amazing, especially for things that can be split into multiple threads easily.

The 360 will definately eat the Mac Mini for lunch in numerous applications, and is probably even with the Mini in other areas.

Re:Hope this is possible

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, people have been able to pirate games for the gamecube.

You can buy the Viper and the Qoob modchips. You can burn your games onto mini DVD-Rs or full sized DVDr's and get a modified lid so that the full size discs fit in.

Get your facts straight dumbass. The Last thing the internet needs is another person spouting wrong information.

Re:Hope this is possible

[Anonymous Coward]

You're wrong.

1. The gamecube disk does not spin backward. Data is written on it just like any other DVD. They are just small DVDs.

2. Tell the guys in alt.binaries.cd.image.gamecube that nobody has been able to play copied games on the gamecube.

Re:Hypervisor

[Seumas]

I think you've got it all wrong. My understanding is that a "hypervisor" is like a supervisor - only way more super. It's a shorter way of saying a super-super-visor. Except, you probably couldn't trademark a super-super-visor.

Re:Other than M-rated first person shooters?

[umeboshi]

For children, I recommend that you get scummvm from scummvm.org . This is a engine for LucasArts point and click adventures. There are two games that you can get from the scummvm.org site, and if you can find copies of some of the games, they are well suited for children. These games are/were AAA type commercial games. I installed it on my cousin's computer, and his daughters play the games all of the time. Their favorites are Day of the Tentacle and Flight of the Amazon Queen.

Re:Other than M-rated first person shooters?

[Yartrebo]

Freeciv is available. Similar to Civ II/Civ III. Much better multiplayer since it is better balanced. Graphics aren't as good, but who needs graphics for a strategy game?

And there's always WINE (or one of the commercial mods of it, like Cedega). Most games (about 2/3rds of the ones I've tried) run on it just fine, though a lot of 'educational' titles run very poorly because of shoddy programming (not that they run too great on native windows either). Heck, with the Caillou games, there's plenty of older kids with the Macromedia Flash skills to make those games which are apparently sold for real $$$ in stores, and my caps of the same TV show Caillou look better (and are at a lower bitrate) than the stuff in the game. And those are caps, which have gone through a digital->analogue->broadcast->digital cycle and have needed the TV logos to be removed. A professional game company should be able to do better.

I would consider just about any strategy game to be "okay for all ages", though I wouldn't expect young kids to get much entertainment out of them.

Re:Lies! All of it Lies!

[TubeSteak]

bbs --> newsgroups --> IRC --> the internet
somewhere in there are mailing lists

I'm not sure why you (an AC) is badmouthing IRC, but lots of serious conversation happens in various 'official' channels. Not everyone has left IRC.

A lot of exploits for the original Xbox were worked on in IRC channels... just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it ain't happening.

Re:Someone Explain the Title?

[Anonymous Coward]

Beneath the comic is a link titled "News". Click that. You will find in the news post a link called "perpetrators of the blackmail". Click that. You will find a news article which begins, "A group says it can run Linux on Microsoft's Xbox, and will make this technique public if Microsoft refuses to consider an official Linux boot loader."

Re:Nice try

[rpresser]

To the best of my knowledge there is still no crack for the Xbox that doesn't involve hardware modification.

Please improve your pitiful knowledge.
http://www.xbox-linux.org/>

Softmodding (modding with no hardware modification) is possible based on a few different methods. There are at least three games for which a savegame buffer overflow exploit is known. You can download a malicious savegame, load it from within the game, and linux boots. From there you can ftp anything you like to your hard drive. (This is the method I chose.) No hardware modification is required. Getting the savegame available to the XBOX can bit tricky. You can either buy an xbox memory card with one installed, or use a standard USB memory drive connected to the controller port -- the controller ports are standard USB with a different connector, but commercial USB adapters are available from real companies (i.e., companies with interests other than assisting you in softmodding).

Among the popular "permanent" softmods you can install onto the harddrive are font mods (buffer overflow in the font file that loads with the splash screen) and sound mods (buffer overflow in the sound processing code, for playing ripped tracks - the original MS software includes a CD ripper for inserting your own soundtracks into games that support it). (I chose the font mod).

Now that you have a mod on your hard drive, you can run unsigned code, including linux itself, alternate dashboards, or (my favorites) Xbox Media Center (not to be confused with the Media Center package Microsoft sells for Xbox) or Xbox-MAME.

A totally different way to go involves opening the XBOX, connecting its hard drive to a PC, loading linux on it, and putting it back in the XBOX. That could be considered "hardware modification" but it requires nothing more than guts and a few screwdrivers.

Re:Odd Timing

[LearnToSpell]

A self-powered X-Box that fits into a discman-size form factor would be a killer app, and is close to being achievable today.

Yeah, but the power supply is the size of a mini-fridge.

Re:My Thoughts Exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't really have any desire to buy any games for it, but if I could get a development/hobby platform for under $400 (okay, add a case that doesn't suck) while at the same time sticking Microsoft for $125, I'm all over it.

Think of it this way, when Microsoft makes an XBox 360, they're out $525. When you buy the XBox 360, they've made $400.

Re:Er... say wha?

[NicKakaWoodstocK]

I disagree. A friend of mine has modded his XBox with XBMC (I assume you are referring to XBox Media Centre) but has a boot loader (is that the right term?) that allows him to select which system his XBox will load. One of those systems is the original XBox system, which means he can play on XBox Live if he wants, but also has the many benefits of XBMC.

must.. have.. slashdot.. story..

[merc]

going through slashdot withdrawl symptoms...!!!

faaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!