Another Study Decries Violent Games 86
FST writes "CNN.com is reporting on a study which found that those 'who play violent video games show increased activity in areas of the brain linked to emotional arousal and decreased responses in regions that govern self-control.' The Reuters article goes on to discuss the study's details, which is fairly typical for these types of inquiries. After playing games, young people were required to do tasks requiring 'processing of emotional stimuli', and concentration. Their brains were monitored for activity, and the findings were presented at a recent meeting of the Radiological Society of North America." The article then gets a little preachy. From the article: "The $13 billion U.S. video game industry, with revenue rivaling Hollywood box office sales, is at the center of a cultural battle over violent content. Lawmakers' various attempts to ban the sale of violent video games to children have been blocked by courts in Louisiana, Illinois, California, Michigan, and Minnesota... Numerous behavioral and cognitive studies have linked exposure to violent media and aggressive behavior." Numerous studies have said just the opposite, too.
wrong game genre studied (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:wrong game genre studied (Score:0)
Re:wrong game genre studied (Score:3, Funny)
Re:wrong game genre studied (Score:2, Funny)
And sometimes after I play Pac-man I find myself running around trying to eat random spherical things while yelling WAKKA WAKKA WAKKA.
Re:wrong game genre studied (Score:1, Funny)
Re:wrong game genre studied (Score:2)
maybe not (Score:0)
Misplaced Reality (Score:0)
In a sleepy stupor, I once considered ctrl-z'ing out of a mistake in stacking boards in real life. Does that count for relevance?
Re:Misplaced Reality (Score:0)
Re:wrong game genre studied (Score:1)
That's not necessarily a bad effect, though. Every try jaywalking across Ventura Boulevard? Just imagine there's a swamp full of lilypads on the other side, and away you go!
Re:wrong game genre studied (Score:2)
I take it you've never had to kill any zombies in real life have you?
Trust me. It is not as glamorous or bloody as the games make it out to be.
Re:wrong game genre studied (Score:2)
On the other hand when I went to a shooting range, I was slightly worried that I'd feel like capping people around me. And yet I didn't get even the slightest urge in that direction. Weird, huh?
Re:wrong game genre studied (Score:2)
Scientific (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Scientific (Score:2)
We're going to lose... (Score:-1, Flamebait)
If I've learned anything from video games it's that bitches respect a strong hand, you can't take out a nazi (or an alien) from 200 yards with a flower and a stern look, and the US always wins.
Re:We're going to lose... (Score:1)
Horray for obvious studies... (Score:5, Interesting)
Kotaku [kotaku.com] echoes my thoughts on this one...
So the teens playing the emotionally rousing combat game were emotionally aroused, and the teens playing the precision racing game were more focused? Amazing. I'm no scientist, but this study seems like it was set up specifically with the goal of finding something wrong with violent games in mind.
Re:Horray for obvious studies... (Score:0)
They all are (Score:2)
With video games, or any technology for that matter, it's even worse since in general those doing the research don't understand it. They design bad tests not only because they want to get a certain answer but because they just don't understand what they are testing.
For example I remember back when I was in one of the classes they made us all go participate in research studies. That's how they get most volunteers, forcing undergrads to do it. Read a few modern studies, you'll be amazed how may say something along the lines of "The same group was students aged 18 to 22 at X university". At any rate it was about Internet usage and addiction. One of the first questions asked was how long you were logged on to the Internet for each day. I tried to explain to them that wasn't a meaningful question in my case. I had DSL at home and the campus connection at work, so when I was at a computer it was ALWAYS on. Hell it was on when I wasn't there. That concept just didn't register with the researcher. She thought the Internet had to be logged in to since that's what she did at home.
The study I'd like to see, that of course probably will never be done, is on a group using a highly controlled game environment. For example pick an engine and have one group play a violent mod like a Deathmatch, and have another play a mode like Freeze Tag. In both cases you have a team based, competitive, fast paced game that works the same, however one is violent, the other is non-violent. See if there's any difference between those groups (probably not). However it's never likely to be done in a large part because the researchers don't know enough about games to realise that you need to control for things like game type.
Re:They all are (Score:2)
But I think the study they already did is significant. Brain activity monitoring isn't all that sensitive yet, and it makes sense to work up from distinguishing very dissimilar cases to more similar ones. Will people go off the deep end and draw conclusions that aren't supported by the research? Probably. But if (IF) they are doing good science, it shouldn't be shot down just because "people might get the wrong idea."
Re:Horray for obvious studies... (Score:2)
It seems that aggression is only bad if video games produce it, otherwise it's a non-issue.
So? (Score:2, Funny)
Is it even worth asking on Slashdot if anyone has had sex and can verify this for me?
Re:So? (Score:1)
Re:So? (Score:1)
will reply soon,
operror
Re:So? (Score:0)
That's exactly right, which might explain why 100% of all rape cases had sex as a contributing factor.
Think about it.
C'mon, if we can't joke about rape, what CAN we joke about?
Another Study can kiss my butt (Score:5, Insightful)
So if they want to ban things, why not start at the end of my list and work their way backward? Betcha that does a heck of a lot more to lower the general level of aggression than preventing me from owning my 'hood in GTA ever will. Far more children and psyches have been damaged by the real violence they experience in their homes and watch on the TV, violence set in motion by these very same protectors of morality, than have ever been or ever will be by a mere silly videogame.
Re:Another Study can kiss my butt (Score:2)
Re:Another Study can kiss my butt (Score:0)
Well, in all fairness, you're talking about domestic violence. How many people at Quake Con could even commit domestic violence if they wanted to?
Re:Another Study can kiss my butt (Score:0)
Re:Another Study can kiss my butt (Score:2)
That fundamentally is what this is all about. Forget about the question of whether games actually have a negative impact on mental health or not - what matters is that games are an extremely convenient scapegoat on which to pin society's ills. They don't have widespread acceptance (yet), the people who play them are young males (a group predisposed to violence already), and a sizable percentage of the population grew up long before gaming even existed. That's a recipe right there for pinning the blame.
Re:Another Study can kiss my butt (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Another Study can kiss my butt (Score:1)
Re:Another Study can kiss my butt (Score:2)
Well, when a corporation can give ten million dollars to the Republican and ten million dollars to the Democrat, it doesn't really matter who you vote for, does it? Either way, the corporation wins and you lose.
That's why I split my vote between the Greens and the Libertarians - "Well, I voted against the asshole!"
Great! (Score:1, Insightful)
Certainly things need to come in moderation, but I see both of those as positive to my life. Am I missing something?
General Problems with Social Sciences (Score:0)
The main problem I always see is that even if the study can prove a link between two things "those who play violent video games show increased activity in areas of the brain linked to emotional arousal and decreased responses in regions that govern self-control." they can not demonstrate a cause-effect relationship. In this study in particular how do they know that people who are easily emotionally aroused aren't drawn to violent videogames? How do they know that people who have difficulty governing self-control are not likely to participate in an activity they enjoy in excess?
They don't
The fact is that if you kept hearing "Jane from Craptastic University was recently discredited by making an unsupported conclusions in her more recent study 'violent videogames cause baby eating'" on the news or in the journals which publish these studies.
Re:General Problems with Social Sciences (Score:2)
This doesn't particularly sound like a social science study. It sounds like they were examining the neurological effects of playing a video game. It's a little hard to criticize a study for its methodology when we have no real idea of what their methodology was.
Re:General Problems with Social Sciences (Score:2)
They barely mentioned that almost all the marijuana smokers who died were on motorcycles, that most European bikers smoke weed, while a small percentage of the auto drivers smoked pot.
So... wrecking a bike is more dangerous than wrecking a car means that marijuana causes fatal accidents.
It's good to know that the US isn't the only country with politics based "science".
i interpret it differently (Score:3, Insightful)
Seems obvious that a game with personification of the player into playfield, simulating injury and death would trigger more emotional "fight or flight" activity in the brain.
Need For Speed is just driving, and vastly less interactive than a FPS. I'd like to see what the brain response was for a "virtual pet" type game, or a Black&White genre. When the player has an emotional connection to the game's results, I'm sure the brain activity is similar. In other words, I don't think the violence has much to do with it, but simply the emotional connection to success. Suspended disbelief to attach the gameplay to "death" is certainly going to be a strong correlation, but there are others.
Oh noes!!! (Score:2)
This content brought to you by people too self-righteous for words.
Better comparison needed (Score:2)
Selective quoting? (Score:4, Insightful)
There isn't anything preachy about that, it's stating a fact. Apparently, numerous studies have reached that conclusion. The very next line says something important that probably shouldn't be overlooked..
From the wikipedia entry:
Homer: Not a bear in sight. The "Bear Patrol" is working like a charm!
Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thanks, honey.
Lisa: By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Hmm. How does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock!
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
You're missing part of the equation (Score:2, Insightful)
a) Allow their children to play these games
b) Don't pay any attention to the behavior/attitude their children exhibit
c) Blame the media and games for the abhorrent misbehavior of their progeny
Seriously, I love how skewed all of this is. Heaven forbid any parent is responsible for what their child does anymore; no, it's clearly because of games. Parents, pay attention to what your child does/watches/plays and what they do with their friend when they're at their friend's house (and the friends' parents need to do the same), and studies like this can stop inciting uneducated prejudice against video games. I can understand that it can have psychological side effects on children, but guess what else has a psychological side effect on your children, GOOD PARENTING!
Re:You're missing part of the equation (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:You're missing part of the equation (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds good to me. (Score:2)
Sounds like a damn fine idea compared to trying to legislate away every possible thing that bad parents could possibly blame their obnoxious kneebiter's problems on.
What we need is somebody to do some germline genetic engineering, and make it so that people are infertile unless they take some special hormonal supplement. In order to get the supplement, you have to have a job, and demonstrate that you can raise a child, perhaps after demonstrating their competence by raising a puppy for 3-5 years.
Re:You're missing part of the equation (Score:1)
Another BS study (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Another BS study (Score:0)
On the other hand, games encourage us to eschew hesitation in other ways. Is your RPG character saving up for retirement? Got any credit card debt to pay off? We rarely hear, "Should I buy this +5 halberd? Oh, I just don't know!"
Re:Another BS study (Score:2)
Study is missing something... (Score:3, Insightful)
When I was younger, a lot of these studies were focused on domestic abuse as being a major influencer on how kids turned out. Since when did video games replaced daddy banging mommy on the kitchen floor and in the bedroom?
OFN (Score:2)
Re:OFN (Score:2)
Did you just equate kung-foo movies (as a genre) with good media?
LOL
Re:OFN (Score:0)
"emotional arousal", OH NOES!! (Score:2)
Mom groups (flamebait) (Score:0, Flamebait)
Similar studies (Score:1, Insightful)
What does this study tell us? It tells us that after someone gets worked up, and no one in the industry questions that an action game gets you worked up, you don't perform as well in tests that require you to be calm and controlled. And that is a surprise?
I think they need to repeat this study and do the same test for a non-violent driving game. I think they will find the same results, which mean absolutely nothing except that your brain becomes stimulated right after an exciting game.
I think twinkies to the same thing to you!
Just once I'd like to see... (Score:2)
I'm betting on the Wii here. Those people complaining about sore shoulders and the wii exercise, will likely produce a study on the number of calories consumed while playing Zelda or some such thing. Stay Tuned.
Re:Just once I'd like to see... (Score:0)
You know... (Score:0)
Then I realized something.
I'm surrounded by morons. I'm going to wager that you're all surrounded by morons, as well.
The fact of the matter is, just because some of us have the brain capacity to realize that Grand Theft Auto isn't reality, the vast blight of humanity in general probably won't be able to.
Lets get serious now (Score:0)
slaughter houses (Score:2)
Hunters
People that work in slaughter houses
(I think Ozzy worked in one so maybe this isn't as satirical as I think)
Ranchers
Soldiers
Police
Personally anything can make people more violent...it just depends on their breaking point.
I find it silly that people are surprised by this study though...it makes sense that our brains would be hardwired to process some signals as entertainment...take cats: They love the fluttery feathers. Scans of their brains have shown that they notice fluttery vertical movement. Hence I installed cat tv...a bird feeder to entertain my cats when I am not home.
With revenues rivaling Hollywood (Score:2)
Cause and effect fallacy (Score:1)
Kinda interesting (Score:2)
That says to me that both of them have these effects. It also does not state how long this effect LAST (does it stop right at the end, 1 min? 10 mins? an hr? a day?).
Now, can any bio/psych people tell us EXACTLY what those 2 portions controll?
Are we wimply seeing that it takes greater concentration to play a racing game then it does an FPS?
How does brain activity like this play out in real life? (what causes it?)
Re:Kinda interesting (Score:2)
That says to me that both of them have these effects. It also does not state how long this effect LAST (does it stop right at the end, 1 min? 10 mins? an hr? a day?).
Now, can any bio/psych people tell us EXACTLY what those 2 portions controll?
Are we wimply seeing that it takes greater concentration to play a racing game then it does an FPS?
How does brain activity like this play out in real life? (what causes it?)
One interesting thing to see would be the comparison between violent games, movies, and competitive sports - basketball/football. Lets see how everything stacks up, not just viewing things in isolation. After that, we can move on to see if there is a correlation with events/behaviours later in life.
Re:Kinda interesting (Score:2)
as for:
I like the idea alot actualy. We get the data and then compare it to data from activities we are more familiar with....
Comparison? (Score:2)
I have yet to see a video game approach anywhere near that level of gore or otherwise objectionable material, but I don't see any scientific studies on the effects of the Bard on the minds of the young.
LJ;L (Score:0)
Increased Emotional Arousal Is Good (Score:3, Interesting)
>those who play violent video games show increased activity in areas of the brain linked to emotional arousal
I would be far more concerned about the sociopathic tendencies of people who did not show emotional arousal than I am by anything reported here.
Re:Increased Emotional Arousal Is Good (Score:2)
More Info on the Study Here (Score:0)
just a thought (Score:0)
In a related story (Score:1)
Jazz music causes brain damage (Score:2, Funny)
This is scary stuff. We need to protect our kids before it's too late.
You can never dip a stick (Score:2)
Conslusion :
Stick ban.
The wrong field of study (Score:2)
And that money will be for their mortgages, which they'll need more of because they can't keep up with payments.
What's worse is that in today's youth culture you need money to be "in". You need it for the movies, the bar thereafter, the weekend at the mall, pretty much ALL kind of youth activity costs money today. You have none, you're out. You have no friends. Because those that could be your friends are in the movies, at the mall, in that entertainment park or in all those other places where you need some greenbacks to trade them for fun.
Violent games don't change that. Whether you forbid violent games won't change a thing. Give those people some goal in life. Being stuck in a hopeless dead end job, or seeing that as your only option for you future, sure doesn't help with getting you on track.
I have been playing violent games since I was a child. I'm now 31. Unlike those people, though, I had good grades, I have a good job and I like my job. I spent a good deal of my youth killing people, virtually. From a helicopter in Gunship, as a sprite in Commandos, as the captain of a ship in Pirates. Thousands, if not millions of virtual lives are on my conscience.
But I have a good life and I have a job, I have money and I have friends. Since in those studies the problems I have presented above don't matter, I should be on a killing spree right now.
Semi-unrelated (Score:0)
Let us just assume that video game violence produces violent children, and then let us ask where these violent children are. If playing video games causes violent behavior, there should be an increase in the amount of violence in children since they are a phenomenon that is for our purposes three decades old. There have been depictions of violence within these games for the entire time, unless one solely wishes to grasp onto realistic depictions of violence (something that doesn't really exist in video games if we want to be pedantic, but let's not be) but even if we set the bar at Wolf 3D-level depictions of violence we are discussing about 14 years of warped children, many of which would be in their mid 20s or later at this point in time, and perfectly capable of bringing A Clockwork Orange to life. However violent crime has been on a downward trend for over two decades, and walking alone in NYC at night is not something someone would be so afraid of that it could be the basis of a Lifetime Evening Movie by itself.
These studies want to deal with violent impulses, but they don't really elaborate on what those violent impulses correspond to in terms of actions. I can tell you that I just got really angry because I didn't backup work I was doing in a repl when the toplevel decided to segfault (probably because I played violent video games as a teenager, no doubt) and dealt with violent impulses (I certainly wouldn't mind being able to reach back in time and slap myself up side the head a little) by having some green tea and reading Slashdot. I'm pretty sure you would record some intense emotional responses from my brain during that ordeal, but I have thus far not killed anyone or caused any property damage. If video games were going to turn us into killing machines (as opposed to joining the military, football team, hockey team,
What the activists want you to believe is that your farting is causing global warming, while there's a giant pile of burning coal sitting next to you. In our case the giant pile of burning coal is poverty, which probably causes most violent crime that isn't the result of various types of brain defects. Who wants to take bets on whether violent crime correlates more with poverty more than it does playing Medal of Honor?
For the 80th time... (Score:2, Insightful)
Aggressive behavior in all its loosely defined glory is used, no, key to business and sports. We highly value business, sports, and competitiveness in general yet fear aggression. What a mixed message.
I have an idea! (Score:1)
Namely, professional boxing and wrestling, which glorifies fighting and shows kids that it's cool and fun to beat on each other?
How about the daily/nightly news, which shows them constant streams of violent outbreaks around the world?
How about their own parents, authority-figures, government officials and other adult role-models, who routinely demonstrate--and reinforce--that the best, most appropriate response when you've been attacked (verbally or physically), or even simply insulted or slighted, no matter how insignificant it may be, is to retaliate, preferably violently?
As for the "study".. uh.. playing games stimulates the emotional centers of the brain, and suppresses the part that governs self-control of those emotions?
Well, duh. Interactive stimuli generally activate the emotional centers, and when you're playing a game, which you know isn't real, controlling those emotions kinda hinders enjoyment of the game, I'd think.
Video games do not turn children into mindless killers. (Well, "America's Army" might, but it must be safe for everyone to play, since it never seems to be in the headlines, with Jack Thompson calling for bans and sanctions on it... right?)
Re:I have an idea! (Score:1)
I like my son watch it. I've told him from day one that if I EVER see him copy it, hear that he has copied it, he never gets to see it again. He knows it's all predetermined and choreographed and they're not trying to hurt each other.
That's why society amuses me. "Oh wrestling is fake" say the MMA fans. They'd rather see people really beaten around than head than faking it.
That right there is what's wrong with society.
Face it. Censorship is inevitable! (Score:1)
There are far more studies that link violent media to aggressive behavior (and I'm talking about true, scientific study, not something dones by Christian Science, etc) than there are of those that disprove it. I'm willing to admit that ever since I've gotten heavily into FPS games my temper for things has changed a bit to where I have to control myself so as not to get into deep s**t especially while driving and getting cut-off by an idiot.
The industry needs to control its content. Sex and violence sell but please, don't make it a normal thing. What I'm starting to see in friend's lil brothers/sisters is more apathy towards violence than before. This is not good for them in the future. Its not just games, its movies, music, etc. Humans learn by stimulus. When they are exposed to something over and over then they will retain that information and use it implicitly in their subconcious to make a real-world decision. Media needs to control itself before it is forced under control which I doubt it will do voluntarily. Oh well.
wait a second... (Score:0)
Not as much as.... (Score:2)
So does a pretty girl. Their point????
It Doesn't Matter... (Score:1)
While i'm playing an emotionally involving game in which the normal laws of society don't apply, I am both emotionally arroused, and I find myself letting go of self control (because it isn't necisary in said virtual enviroment).
In the real world, I do not let go of self control.
Playing games, by their nature, allow you to explore otherwise forbidden behaviors in a non-real enviroment. Weither or not I carry said behaviors over to the my real enviroment has less to do with the game, but more to do with my concecpts of reality and real world cause-consiquence.
Although, i will admit, some people who are otherwise quiet, do get rather angry WHILE playing a high paced intense FPS... but a little yelling isn't that bad. Typically, the ones who act out with physical violence, are already disturbed anyway, and shouldn't be playing in the first place.
Hmmm (Score:1)