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Arm Wrestling Machine Recalled for Breaking Arms 475

Posted by samzenpus
from the step-right-up-and-lose-a-limb dept.
Lucas123 writes "After three players broke their arms while wrestling with a Japanese arcade machine, the manufacturer promised to remove all 150 of the mechanized appendages. Said game maker Atlus' spokeswoman: "The machine isn't that strong, much less so than a muscular man. Even women should be able to beat it.""
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Arm Wrestling Machine Recalled for Breaking Arms

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    Oh my. Even considering the obvious advantage that men typically have over women in regards to physical strength, that's a pretty stupid thing to say in this day and age. Hell, and I'm not even a PC-nut.
    • by tukkayoot (528280) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:45PM (#20325655) Homepage
      Well said. You expressed your point so clearly, even a woman could understand it!
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      I know a girl who's an expert in Krav Maga. She teaches it for a living.

      I feel much safer with her when I go out, and I'm 6'7" and weigh about 17 stone.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:20PM (#20325923)
      Shoot, I'm more liberal than most and I think the PC bullshit goes too far.

      So the average man is stronger than the average woman... but it's still not OK to acknowledge that?

      I took a sociology class with a crazy liberal lesbian instructor (she was nice and earnest, just not a good teacher). Anyhow, we were shown some statistic about women vs. men along the lines of "Men are stronger [taller, something like this] on average". In refuting the (larger) argument, the instructor pointed to this particular statistic and said "It doesn't take into account that some women are stronger [taller, whatever] than some men!"

      I just wanted to scream out "YES IT DOES!! DO YOU KNOW WHAT AVERAGE MEANS??" but it was a lost cause; most students were just as gung-ho about being "equal" and "correct", etc. I didn't have the energy to refute every problem in that class.

      Really, pointing out facts should not be frowned upon. If, on average, men are stronger than women, why shouldn't one say that? Using said facts to oppress would be a problem, but facts are facts, no matter what happen to be our beliefs or prejudices.

      I mean, if I say "People hailing from Western Africa have darker skin than those from Western Europe", is there anything wrong with it? Of course not. It just becomes a problem when I add, "and so we can subjugate them." I leave it up to you to decide who "we" are and who "they" are.
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I just wanted to scream out "YES IT DOES!! DO YOU KNOW WHAT AVERAGE MEANS??"

        Evidently, you don't. An average is a distribution's first moment -- its center of mass. Depending on the distribution, the average can be a radically poor approximation. For instance, consider a distribution that roughly takes the shape of a torus about the origin. The average will be near the origin, despite being nowhere near any of the data points. So while the the torus might be might be (0,0,0) on average, the "average to
        • Are you seriously implying that in general men are not stronger than women? Dude you need to get out more. Anyone who has a problem with this IS IGNORING REALITY.
        • by fractoid (1076465) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @11:24PM (#20326391) Homepage
          Spend less time failing to understand mathematics and more time in the gym, and maybe you'll be stronger than the average woman. "On average, men are stronger than women" is a fact, if on average, men are indeed (as has been measured) stronger than women. Whether it's a good metric or a relevant argument is an entirely different matter.

          Since this is Slashdot, I'll put it in terms you may be able to understand: I have a white sports car. It's decently fast. If someone were to research statistics of cars' top speeds, and find that on average, red cars are faster than white cars, it's irrelevant whether my white car or any other white car is faster than most red cars, because my car isn't an average white car. The statistic says that if you pick a random white car and a random red car, chances are the red car is faster.

          Likewise, if it's been shown that on average men are stronger than women, and you pick a random woman and a random man, odds are that the man is physically stronger than the woman. That's not discrimination, it's statistics. Anyone telling you different is wrong.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Koiu Lpoi (632570)
          The center of a Torus is hardly "insignificant". Indeed, it's one of the defining parts of the torus itself. To use your example, the average did not give us quite what we wanted, but the information is definitely still useful.
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Gospodin (547743)

          Good point, because it's well known that almost all women are stronger than every man, except for that one woman who lives in Peoria, IL, who is so weak she brings down the overall average. Damn her, ruining it for everyone else!!!

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by beav007 (746004)
        Did you ask her how many Olympic events have men competing against women?
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by identity0 (77976)
        I think you missed the point... the fact is, you probably shouldn't insult the people who were injured by your (apparently defective) product.

        And yes, it would be considered an insult in Japan, where the gender roles are more strongly defined than in the US.
      • by Moraelin (679338) on Thursday August 23, 2007 @01:25AM (#20327095) Journal
        I'm a male, but I can see her point too.

        The only problem is that, as the saying goes, "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." Where there is a hideously large variability in the sample, _only_ comparing averages is at best misleading. There's a reason why, for example, in science and engineering you don't just calculate the average of the data you measured, but also the error bar.

        Plus, most people who bring up an argument along the lines of "on the average X are better at Y than Z", will proceed to use it along the lines of "therefore all and each X are better than all Z". Or some equivalent redefining from average to one member, like:

        1. therefore I'm better than you

        2. therefore we should only hire X

        3. therefore it's ok to pay Z less for doing the same job and meeting the same goals/quotas/deadlines/etc

        4. therefore some ridiculously non-challenging task is (or should be) an X-only job

        Etc.

        E.g., as an extreme example of 4, there's a whole horde of machos arguing that a woman shouldn't ever be allowed to join the army and carry a 6 pound assault rifle, because women are on the average weaker. Never mind that even a couch-potato of either sex can jolly well use one, and that the whole point of the army is to drill you and train you into the shape they want you, even if you hadn't moved more than from the couch to the fridge in your whole life before.

        So I can't honestly blame anyone who's weary of having such averages shoved in their face.

        Averages have at best a trivia value most of the time. In any given situation you're dealing with individuals (e.g., if you actually need to hire someone strong) or with the whole gauss curve (e.g., if you want to make such an arcade machine which doesn't break the arm of someone on the far left end of the scale.) Trying to reduce it all to an average is, at best, bad science, even if you don't have some supremacist agenda.

        Even taking your skin colour example, just the average is useless in just about any conceivable practical situation. Even if you were judging the potential market for sunblock or tanning beds there, you have such variables and market niches as:

        - white western-origin people living in Africa or viceversa. Unless you mean actual racial profiling, someone could "hail from West Africa" only because their white portuguese ancestors settled in a trading post there in the 1600's.

        - native populations such as the Khoisan [wikipedia.org], which have quite a range of skin tones, some fairly light

        Etc.

        Yes, I know what an average is, but you don't actually deal with only the average for any practical purposes.

        So I too would be weary of people pointing out such misleading averages left and right and then retreating into "I'm just pointing facts." A "fact" taken out of context, or used in the wrong context, can be as mis-leading as an outright lie. Unless you've found some problem where the average alone is relevant, that is.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:51PM (#20326141)
      Sure, when I need help lifting a heavy object, I look for the nearest woman. What a load of shit. And when I feel like fucking someone, I go trying to pick up other men. Yeah. Wouldn't want to be "sexist" you know.

      Politically correct people should be beaten to a pulp, on sight (by a man). The world will be a much better place.

      I mean, look at the bullshit you wrote (paraphrasing):

      Even though men are usually stronger than women, it's stupid to say that.

      Yeah, I guess FACTS and REALITY are for stupid people. Gotcha.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by ookabooka (731013)
      You know, I'm not that sure that men really do have (on average) more physical strength than women. I mean, women spend all day cleaning and doing housework, thats more physical activity than going to a real job in a developed country where you sit at a computer all day.

      I have a horrible sense of humor, I apologize. I respect women, really. . . prolly should have made this post AC.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by OrangeTide (124937)
      I think if they said "even most women" or "even a typical woman" it might have been a lot more PC. "even women" implies that all women are physically inferior to all men. It's BS I know, but you can't guard your sell from the PC nuts without sounding like a total dipshit. And if you do it subtly you might trip up some PC moron and can point out how they failed to pay attention.
  • Beating it (Score:5, Funny)

    by gujo-odori (473191) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:32PM (#20325529)
    "Even women should be able to beat it"

    I dunno, I think an artificial arm would work better for helping guys to beat it...

    Besides, having a woman beat it would just be so out of place for most /.ers.
  • lol (Score:5, Funny)

    by wizardforce (1005805) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:32PM (#20325535) Journal

    Arm Spirit, which is only distributed in Japan, lets gamers advance through 10 levels battling, among other opponents, a French maid, a drunken martial arts master and a Chihuahua before reaching the final showdown with a professional wrestler.
    that would suck, get your arm snapped by a Chihuahua... what happens in Japan stays in Japan.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      I would really love to be in a board room where they come up with these ideas. If these are the ones that got approved, what ones where shot down on common sense grounds?
      • Re:lol (Score:4, Funny)

        by Bryan Ischo (893) * on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:59PM (#20326193) Homepage
        I did a brief bit of consulting for a company developing cell phone apps. They had ties to some Korean cell phone manufacturers. Somehow they had gotten a hold of some Korean arcade systems as a trial to see if they would want to market them in the USA. One was called something like "Butt Smacker" and it was an upright arcade console with a screen and a recreation of a person's butt (made out of foam and plastic) protruding just below the screen. There was a paddle attached to the side of the cabinet.

        I never saw the machine turned on but I can only imagine what the "game" was ...
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by Mushdot (943219)
          Maybe you are thinking of this one [sixsixfive.com]? You stick your finger up someones backside!
    • Re:lol (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:14PM (#20325885)
      a French maid, a drunken martial arts master and a Chihuahua

      Sounds like Saturday night at my place.
  • We had one at work (Score:5, Informative)

    by future assassin (639396) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:32PM (#20325545) Homepage
    My boss bought one and it was stored at one of our stores. We'd have customers who thought they were all tough use the machine and do some damage to their arms. I tried it a couple of times and had some seriously sore shoulder for a week. If you are out of shape or drunk you will hurt yourself on the machine if you try too hard or if you up the strength level of the machine.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:03PM (#20325791)
      You can break your own bones. People think of conditioning in terms of muscle only but bones also respond to exercise, or the lack of it. The best example is astronauts. They lose a lot of bone mass. They can become quite fragile. It's not all that hard to get yourself to the condition where your muscles are too strong for your bones.

      My favorite arm wrestling story: I used to vacation with a bunch of farmers. One night in the lounge they had a bit of an arm wrestling tournament. The security guy came in. He was buff. He obviously exercised at least an hour a day. He was also no fool. He chose the easiest looking guy for his first match; the farm kid. He looked like he never exercised and was slightly pudgy. He was a bit bigger than the security guy but not a lot. I would have bet on the security guy to win.

      Not only could the security guy not budge the farm kid, he broke a small blood vessel in his temple. Blood actually spurted from the side of his head. I was very impressed but the farmers weren't. In any event, the kid couldn't beat any of the older guys even if they were getting pretty lubed.
      • Personally, I'm glad the kid didn't beat any of the lubed older guys!
    • by MMaestro (585010) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:06PM (#20325829)
      The machine can twist your arm up pretty badly. I once saw and tried one of these machines and I felt like my arm was being torn out at my shoulder. I'm 6'4" and since the machine was practically designed for people a whole foot shorter than me, my arm was in a pretty bad position (since I tried to play fairly and keep my elbow down on the pad).

      Worse still, if a player is shocked by something (the sudden force of the game or your friend decides to drop an ice cube down your shirt), since the mechanical hand "grips" your hand with its thumb (assuming you held it properly), you can seriously mess your arm up if you try to pull away suddenly.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by c6gunner (950153)
        You guys are deffinitely living up to the Slashdot stereotype.

        As for me, I had no difficulty beating the machine. Neither did my sister.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:33PM (#20325551)
    I don't understand why this is categorized as humor when it deals with someone's pain and anguish.

    Also the company claims that the arm isn't that strong. Yet the physics behind the arm and the leverage is sure to make engaging the machine in a friendly game of arm wrestling into something which is needlessly dangerous.
  • by russ1337 (938915) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:33PM (#20325555)
    >>> wrestling with a Japanese arcade machine, the manufacturer promised to remove all 150 of the mechanized appendages

    I think you probably would get hurt tangling with an arcade machine that has 150 mechanized appendages...
  • theory and practice (Score:5, Informative)

    by l2718 (514756) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:34PM (#20325557)
    With a reply of "the machine is not that strong" it sounds like the engineering was done on paper. It doesn't take that much force to break an arm -- it's a question of torque more than force, and I'd bet the machine has plenty of leverage.
    • by EmbeddedJanitor (597831) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:42PM (#20325635)
      It's really the players that are defective. The game is fine.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:47PM (#20325671)
      The machine may not be stronger than a human--but it is uncompromising. If you arm-wrestle against a human, they will: (a) get a bit tired, and (b) usually not purposefully break your arm. That is, they will only push as hard as is necessary to beat you, and if they see that you are hurting yourself, they can modify the force and direction of force so as to not hurt you.

      If you are going up against a machine, it will just keep pushing back with the same strength, even when your eyes are saying "I give up!"
      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        If you arm-wrestle against a human, they will: ... (b) usually not purposefully break your arm.
        So this machine purposely breaks your arm? No wonder its getting recalled...
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by steveo777 (183629)
        About 10 years ago I found one of these in the Mall of America (I think). Everyone took turns trying to beat it for a while, but the real issue was that once you got to the last guy, it would just torque the arm down at a constant speed. Relentless. We had six people pulling that arm back up and it kept moving. I imagine if you tried to brace your arm and prevent the machine from moving, it would snap at whatever point you brace pretty easy.
    • by gad_zuki! (70830) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:05PM (#20325817)
      It would also help if they didnt plug a 110 plug into a 220 socket.
  • Beware stupid people (Score:4, Interesting)

    by WFFS (694717) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:36PM (#20325575)
    In that case, should cars be recalled?

    "We think people have been driving in unnatural ways."

    Companies shouldn't be punished for people's stupidity.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by necro2607 (771790)
      "Companies shouldn't be punished for people's stupidity."

      Tell this to the people who demand warning labels for every possible minor risk or inconvenience... ;)

      That just makes me instantly envision people bitching about 'missing' warning labels. "Hey, I nearly burned my tongue on this coffee! There should be a warning on the cup about how hot it is! ... Even though I can plainly feel the heat through the cup, not to mention the fact that I can see the steam coming out of the lid..."
  • by Veramocor (262800) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:36PM (#20325583)
    The Japanese sure know how to build a video game. This one came with a prize feature depending on how far you advanced. They had some crazy prizes for winning on the hardest level. The one that is most over the top was winning you own Mack truck.
    • by Bluesman (104513)
      When I put my, uh, hat on backwards, you know, I, uh, I uh, I feel like a Toyota truck, you know.

    • by rm999 (775449)
      I like how your not so subtle reference to a ridiculous (but awesome) 80s movie was modded "interesting"

      Tell you the truth, the truck is, uh, you know, the most important thing for me. I... I don't really... it doesn't matter if I, uh, become the champion or anything. That's, that's not the most important... I... I need this truck.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those... sounds painful!
  • Finally (Score:5, Funny)

    by timeOday (582209) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:51PM (#20325709)
    An arcade game that's *definitely* harmful to children. No philosophical and ethical debate necessary!
  • Strapped on? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by pembo13 (770295) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:57PM (#20325747) Homepage
    Contestants arms strapped to the machine? Is letting go not an option? There must be fair amount of pressure before one breaks their arm in such a fashion - it isn't some high impulse force.
    • Re:Strapped on? (Score:4, Informative)

      by MMaestro (585010) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:12PM (#20325869)
      The player's arm isn't strapped to the machine, but its not like you can simply let go. The mechanical arm is pushing down your hand and assuming you were in the proper position (elbow down on the "table", hand gripping the opponent's hand) theres no straight-forward motion of letting go.
    • Re:Strapped on? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by arth1 (260657) on Thursday August 23, 2007 @12:38AM (#20326879) Homepage Journal
      These are Japanese. It's better to lose arm than face.
      Seriously, it's incredible how much pain and suffering some people will endure without admitting it, and in some cultures this is more pronounced than in others. And losing a manhood challenge to a machine implies you're not even as much man as the machine, i.e. less than zero. So you grind your teeth, force a smile, and endure. And endure. Until your arm breaks, if necessary. At least then, it's not your muscles (i.e. manhood) that are inadequate, and people can hardly fault you for stopping at that point.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Futselaar (1103511)
        Really? I have been living in Japan for a while now. I guarantee that breaking your arm rather than letting go of a dumb arcade game would be considered a sign of astounding stupidity by the vast majority of the population. I'd wager that this has nothing to do with culture, manhood and honor, and everything with some dumb drunk salarymen egging each other on. Fratboy-type dumbasses are, depressingly, a universal occurrence around the world.
  • Violent video games (Score:5, Informative)

    by jsse (254124) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @09:59PM (#20325759) Homepage Journal
    I remembered we had a boxing video game in a local gameshop. Players' punched on a padding sensor and the strength would be measured, and the screen will respond accordingly.

    The game was just fine until one day accident occurred. As a matter of fact, this was not the fault of the game design itself. A smartass attempted to hit the padding with a jump-side-back-kick with spinning, and missed, and broke his non-kicking leg as it was landed on the wrong place (well, as a witness myself I must say I'm not so sure whether he had planned any landing afterall).

    Needless to say, the game was recalled for 'causing violent accident'.

    Violent video game is OK as long as the players don't attempt to hurt themselves in most embarrass ways.

    BTW, below is the no-full-page-ad of the headline story:
    http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?com mand=printArticleBasic&articleId=9032180 [computerworld.com]
  • by bwen (675669)
    I think its great the company spokesperson has the cojones to say that "even a girl can beat it." Their machine has broken people's arms and now they make fun of the people who have sustained injuries. Do they want a lawsuit?
  • Arm wrestling is all about leverage (duh). My buddy, who always whoops my ass (I work out enough to be strong), always gets his elbow off the table. When we were in highschool, he even beat the biggest dude on the hockey team as a freshman, and the dude was a senior.

    Are there any pro arm wrestlers (hah)/phyicists/smart-dudes that can comment about a good arm-wrestling strategy?
    • by mcmonkey (96054) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:10PM (#20325853) Homepage

      Are there any pro arm wrestlers (hah)/phyicists/smart-dudes that can comment about a good arm-wrestling strategy?

      Easy. Lifting your elbow up provides an advantage through leverage. AKA cheating. Next time your buddy gets his elbow off the table while arm wrestling, kick him in the nuts.

    • by timmarhy (659436)
      one thing people do is pull your arm towards them, so that your reaching out.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by fractoid (1076465)

      My buddy, who always whoops my ass (I work out enough to be strong), always gets his elbow off the table.
      Well, the official rules [armsport.com], Article XII, Rules for the Competition, states:

      23. Competitors may not intentionally attempt to cause a foul for themselves after the go, i.e. picking up elbow.
      So your friend was cheating. :P
  • by fearboy (309735) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:06PM (#20325827) Homepage
    In Soviet Russia, game breaks YOU!

    Now if the damn Russians would just invent an arm-breaking machine, the joke would work...
  • sigh (Score:5, Funny)

    by friedman101 (618627) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:21PM (#20325935)
    And yet no one will recall the real doll [realdoll.com] for breaking hearts *sob*
  • by bakura121 (1117149) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:22PM (#20325937) Homepage

    "The machine isn't that strong, much less so than a muscular man. Even women should be able to beat it."

    Wow... a guy gets his arm broken by an arm wrestling machine and a spokesman says "even women should be able to beat it." Talk about kicking a man when he's down. Ouch!
  • by kaufmanmoore (930593) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @10:24PM (#20325963)
    Japan has to many girly men. They need to be pumped up.
  • On a mostly unrelated note, when I was in Japan in 2001 they still had good arcades. Arcades have mostly died in the USA due to home consoles; the only arcades left are full of big machines that have controls that cannot be duplicated on a home system (things like recreations of rafts with paddles, skiing slopes, horses, flight cockpits, race car cockpits, etc) that cost $2.00 to play, last 30 seconds, and basically suck. The only good American arcade I have been to in this decade is the one in Chinatown
  • by jollyreaper (513215) on Wednesday August 22, 2007 @11:53PM (#20326611)
    I don't even want to see the accidents possible with this game! [sixsixfive.com]

    Things I Love About Japan

      I have never understood the fascination that so many Americans have with Japan, but when I see something like this I have to admit, they have some unbelievable shit over there. On the left is an arcade game called Boong Ga Boong Ga in which you, the player, try to cram a plastic finger up a virtual woman's ass. The harder you shove, the more reaction you get from the computerized face on the screen. I really have nothing to add to this.
    And on the right, we have mascots for the game - one with a giant hand for a head and one who appears to be dressed with a fecal motif. Amazing stuff. I want this game.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by jollyreaper (513215)
      +5 informative? Look, I'm the OP and even I'm disturbed by this. "Boon Ga. Mmm, yes. Tell me more."
  • by confusedneutrino (732640) on Thursday August 23, 2007 @12:25AM (#20326813)
    "Droids don't pull people's arms outta their sockets when they lose..."

    Sure there's not a wookie hiding in there somewhere?
  • The literal truth (Score:3, Interesting)

    by endemoniada (744727) <nathanielNO@SPAMendemoniada.org> on Thursday August 23, 2007 @12:35AM (#20326859) Homepage
    Heh, in Swedish it's actually called "arm breaking". Maybe that machine was manufactured here? o_O
  • by 6Yankee (597075) on Thursday August 23, 2007 @04:31AM (#20327861)
    ...can we set them up to arm-wrestle each other? Then we could gamble on which one goes up in a cloud of smoke.

    Two machines enter - one machine leaves!
  • Ah yes... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by localman (111171) on Thursday August 23, 2007 @04:43AM (#20327917) Homepage
    About three years ago a friend and I were arm wrestling at the office and I broke my arm. Made a sound like cracking a yardstick over your knee. Had to get surgery and a metal plate installed. Still have a pretty crazy scar from that. It's cool though because he's bought me enough beers to more than make up for it.

    We were guys in good shape, but neither he nor I were strangely strong people. Turns out it's not that hard to break the humerus if you twist it the wrong way. Generally if you're arm wrestling you should be positioned so that you're doing a curl, and putting the stress along the length of the bone. If you are using a twisting motion you're doing it wrong: if you're reasonably strong and you push as hard as you can, you very well might snap your arm.

    I think I may have had a hairline fracture beforehand from some aggressive rock climbing a few weeks earlier, during which I experienced some pain in that arm. But even in that case, the cause was still my own muscle strength against my own bone strength, and the bone lost. That worried me so I had a bone density scan after the break. And I came up completely normal.

    The scar always gets questions. I've tried telling tall tales and such (a knife fight! no, alligator wrestling! no, a cybernetic bicep implant!), but nothing gets as much of a reaction as the truth. Only problem is people seem to then assume that it means I'm defective for fragile or something. But here's my take: if you've ever arm wrestled and lost without breaking your arm, you're a pussy. Because you just gave up.

    Makes me feel a little better, anyways :)

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