Duke Nukem For Never 565
PLSQL Guy writes "Duke Nukem Forever developer 3D Realms is shutting down, according to Shacknews. They cite 'a reliable source close to the company,' who said the developer is finished and employees have already been let go. It looks like all of the Duke Nukem Forever jokes are turning into reality; DNF might turn out to be the ultimate vaporware after all."
3D Realms' webmaster, Joe Siegler, confirmed the closing, saying that he didn't know about it even a day beforehand. Apogee and Deep Silver, who are working on a different set of Duke Nukem games (referred to as the Duke Nukem Trilogy) say they are not affected by the problems at 3D Realms.
RIP DNF (Score:5, Interesting)
There've been calls to open-source the game. Take-Two still owns the publishing rights on the title, and apparently never had an agreement to support development with funds--DNF was essentially privately funded.
DNF is now the gold-standard for vapor-ware. How much money did they spend, I wonder, producing nothing?
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
There've been calls to open-source the game.
Why ? There is already better open source vaporware - Hurd. Though I must admit that DNF has a much cooler mascot with Duke.
Perhaps Duke can become the mascot of Hurd now ?
He is free... for other vaporware.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
"Install the Hurd NOW, or I'm gonna rip off your head and shit down your throat."
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
So how's your opensourced vapourware Netscape browser going? I think it's called "Firefox" these days.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Perhaps the projects could merge. HIRD of Users Reviving Duke?
It's time... (Score:4, Funny)
to write code and chew bubble gum; and I'm all out of gum...
Re:It's time... (Score:5, Funny)
Come get some.
Given how long Hurd has been in the making (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's time... (Score:5, Funny)
You've got it all wrong...
it's time to write code and chew bubble gum; and I'm all out of job...
Re:It's time... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It's time... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's time... (Score:4, Funny)
I now have plenty of time to bleeeeed.
Re:It's time... (Score:4, Funny)
This news makes me very sad. I feel as if someone tore off my head and shat down my neck.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
GPL v. 2 isn't bad, just outdated.
As opposed to GPL v. 3, which isn't good, just new.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not very usable as a real system, but it's definitely not vaporware.
LOL. I'm not sure this distinction is all that great. After all, people develop software to use it. After 15 years (whatever) of development, a reasonable expectation is that the system would be usable for something other than just rebooting.
After all, I have Windows for that task.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Insightful)
With such an acronym as the abbreviated name of the game, who could have expected anything less, to be honest? Maybe it was just a practical joke all along!
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
With such an acronym as the abbreviated name of the game, who could have expected anything less, to be honest? Maybe it was just a practical joke all along!
Yeah, I mean, I read "DNF" and I'm like Disjunctive Normal Form ? Ha, what kind of name is that !
*chuckles*
aha... okay, stop staring at me, guys ?
You stole my joke; oh well, it's "Did not finish" (Score:5, Informative)
What, I thought DNF was "Digital Noise Filter". Which is what you need when reading rumors about the impending release of DNF :)
Wikipedia says it's
"Did not finish" in racing parlance
(Non-native English speakers might not be familiar with this particular acronym expansion.)
Re:You stole my joke; oh well, it's "Did not finis (Score:5, Funny)
I thought it was "Do Not Fold" - which is normally stamped on packages containing CDs or other fragile media, and indeed, it seems that DNF are folding :)
"Did not Finish" makes much more sense though.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
I thought it was Did Not Finish...
Oddly it makes sense...
DNF DNF. Did Not Finish Duke Nukem Forever...
DNF Squared I guess.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Doonf" ? I don't get it.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I started wondering that too after I noticed the abbreviation was DNF.. what a shame.. this is one game I'd have actually bothered to reinstall Windows for.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If you read their site [3drealms.com] you'll see they seemed to do lots of fun stuff along the years.
I think most of there where to have fun and do what they liked. If you read their job posting, you'll see they offer revenue from sales of their projects and honestly are a cool company to work at. And that probably was what caused their shutdown, with all the EA and others just going for profits and making developers and programmers a slave.
Also see their company info page, theres lots of fun stuff. I wish I had worked th
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Insightful)
Or maybe the reason for the shutdown is that they couldn't deliver a product after at least 11 years of development.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Insightful)
It was poor management that ruined them. Whether a company treats employees well or not poor management can kill a company.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Insightful)
Ahem, actually, there might be a fine line between 'respecting employees and being cool' and 'taking eleven year to finish a program'.
Sorry, no, it's a line the size of a road.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:4, Informative)
> ...udder crap...
I'm not typically a grammar nazi, but please people: udders don't crap, they produce milk. The phrase is "utter crap". Thank you. That is all.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
Crap normally means deification
I have no humorous quip to add do this, but it stands on its own =)
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
So while Crap normally means deification it has been expanded to anything so worthless that it needs to be disposed of as soon as possible.
Crap means "deification" to you? Man, you've got a weird theology. Are the 2 Girls and One Cup considered holy artifacts?
Re:RIP DNF (Score:4, Informative)
2 Girls 1 Grail!
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
SecureROM Activation Failed: Could not connect to the 3drealms activation server.
What does it mean??
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Informative)
try eduke32
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Interesting)
If you read their site [3drealms.com] you'll see they seemed to do lots of fun stuff along the years.
Of course they've been having fun. They've been playing around for over a decade.
What'll be interesting is to find out how true this is.
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=58519 [shacknews.com]
By: mourningstar Crosspost from SA:
Channel_F, a previous employee of 3DR, posted some interesting info:
In my best interest, I'm going to be somewhat candid for now. I will, however, elaborate a bit on some things:
The 2001 trailer was 100% scripted cinematic, and not actual gameplay. They built specific demo maps just to record video from to make a trailer. Everything you see in that trailer was phony.
The typical work flow there went something like this: Designer would be assigned a task (build a new map, rebuild an old map, polish a bit of a map, etc.). Designer would work on said task for two, three weeks, a month, all the while lower management would be looking over it and making sure it was going in a "good general direction." Designer would move on to another task. A month or two later upper management would finally look at the work and say, "It's all wrong, do it again." Rinse, repeat.
Entire maps would be done from the ground up, almost to beta quality, and then thrown out simply because no one would make decisions early on in the process. (Read up on Valve's 'orange box' method of design -- that's how you make games)
Another example of WTF is the fact that there was one part of one map that was being worked on before I started working there. Nineteen months later and the same designer was still working on the same part of that same map... I'm not blaming the designer, it wasn't his fault.
I think the biggest problem that the company had in general is being self-funded. When you're a developer working directly with a publisher and you have milestones to meet it's a whole different ballgame. If you don't meet those milestones, you don't get any money. That right there will keep your project on schedule. If, however, you're funding it yourself, you don't really have anyone to answer to except yourself and you can quickly lose sight of just how much money is going out the door.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Interesting)
AFAIK Valve tend to prototype the gameplay side of things using basic graphics, notably orange (with a white outline) textures for walls and so forth, before moving onto the graphics side. It sounds like 3D Realms went strait to the "making good looking levels" before making sure they worked gameplay wise.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I want to hear more... (Score:5, Interesting)
Rampant egos? Ineptness? Fraud? There has to be some juicy tidbits that will come put of the tale...
Re:I want to hear more... (Score:4, Interesting)
Man...the miniseries is going to be great.
The resulting article will be better than the Daikatana story.
Re:I want to hear more... (Score:5, Informative)
I believe they made a name with Duke 3D and had good intentions of making a sequel..at first. Then along came licensing rights. Easy money. Then came some noteable side-tracks. Max Payne for one. Then came some more licensing. Then it really didn't make sense to work that hard any more. The money (anyone with a buck to buy licensing) just called on the phone, the lawyers did their work, and the money showed up in the bank.
Here is some of what we got instead of DNF..
Duke Nukem 64
Duke Nukem - Game Boy Color
Duke Nukem - Land of the Babes
Duke Nukem - Manhattan Project
Duke Nukem - Time to Kill
Duke Nukem - Total Meltdown
Duke Nukem - Zero Hour
Duke Nukem Advance
Duke Nukem II
Duke Nukem Mobile
They milked it for over 10 years. I am surprised they actually "called it off" and didn't just let it fade away.
The shame here is the magnificent property that was lazily shit off.
Re:I want to hear more... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Linked somewhere else in the comments: http://gamingisstupid.com/2009/05/06/the-chair-story-revival/
TL;DR: Working as intended.
Re:I want to hear more... (Score:4, Funny)
Duke Nukem Forever is dead... But look forward to Duke Nukem Forever: The Movie
Maybe they'll make a game to tie-in with the movie.
Axl Rose wins the vaporware wars against 3DRealms (Score:5, Funny)
I always thought Guns 'n' Roses was DNF's main competition in the Vaporware Wars Of 1994-2009. :)
I honestly never thought Axl would ship his album first for the win, but, here we are.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Whatever it was, just way, way too much. It will (or has long already?) become the prime example for developers why one should eventually just product out the door. Like a chef repeatedly fiddling with his concoction too much, the built up anticipation of changed recipes and of just the endless waiting meant the game just would have never lived up to the hype. Ever.
Years ago, the best they could have d
Re:RIP DNF (Score:4, Funny)
Sometimes one should just product out the door, but other times one should use the preview button a bit more diligently ;-)
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
I would like to reiterate http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1220783&cid=27813603 [slashdot.org]
The vapor that I long for most
The Duke, the Wolf*,
And the Starcraft: Ghost
They saw their code build
So they'd boast
The day
Their sche-----dule died.
And Duke was saying:
(Chorus)
bye, bye
Eat some shit and then die
... apparently, writing code isn't as easy as (American) Pie :)
Re:RIP DNF (Score:4, Informative)
There've been calls to open-source the game.
The problem is that there is no source whatsoever to release I'm afraid.
Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)
Duke Nuken Forever
1997 - 2009
tl;dnf
Damn (Score:5, Funny)
Sounds like they are all outta gum
Re:Damn (Score:5, Funny)
About time (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been kind of expecting/hoping for this for some time. Ever since the economy got so bad, I figured we might come to this. I'm actually amazed this didn't have before. You can't go that long with such incompetent management of a project and expect to be allowed to keep going, especially when you can't even be bothered to produce an actual time estimate for completion anymore except "When it's done".
Re:About time (Score:5, Funny)
Re:About time (Score:5, Insightful)
Competent managers are not required to have a product out the door in, what?, 15 years? Other companies without real managers do that in three. Example: iD Software managed several of these feats, making quality games, having some kind of time and money estimate beforehand and then actually finishing something.
When a product like this takes *umpteen* years without any kind of progress or even a measly status report, you have incompetent managers, incompetent programmers, insufficient funding, incompetent financers, inadequate workplace or ideas distant from reality. 3D Realms probably had all of it and more.
Unfortunately, badly managed companies go bankrupt. Fortunately, they're not wasting anyone's resources, money and time anymore.
But it's much much worse when badly managed companies cannot go bankrupt under any circumstances, being deemed "too big to fail" or having some other kind of socialist protection.
Re:About time (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to repent all of my sins and start frequenting a church, hopefully when I die, Duke Nukem Forever will be waiting for me on God's Commodore 64.
Re:About time (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:God uses Linux, Linux implies !C64 (Score:4, Funny)
God tried Linux, but couldn't find the drivers for his wireless. He keeps trying, but I don't think he has a prayer.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Much of the time is spent for story, graphics, sound and map design, which is the reason for 3-year cycles between episodes. The engine itself can be bought wholesale and gameplay mechanics don't take decades to finish.
What Valve actually finishes in 3 years is still much more than what 3D Realms did in 15. If the result is an Episode or a Game doesn't matter, because most Duke Nukem players would be satisfied with either, as long as the damn company Gets Something Done Real Quick(tm).
They didn't, because 3
Re:About time (Score:4, Informative)
Frankly Duke 3D was bad enough.
It was no Quake, and that's for certain. I never did get the Duke Hype, it was outdated as soon as it was released.
Re:About time (Score:4, Informative)
The gameplay was very far from perfect, and the pseudo-3D engine looked bad compared to Quake's actual 3D (which came out a few months later). But it did have some cool bits... strippers, a wicked sense of humor, and a badass theme song.
re: "The Duke hype" (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, it probably did grow "larger than life" over the years, with so many people fondly remembering it (but not having really considered how far the 3D shooter genre has come since then either).
I'd agree that it was "no Quake", but it wasn't supposed to be. Part of what made the game really good, IMHO, was the humor and lightheartedness to it - while still keeping the player focused on having "serious" missions and goals.
A lot of action arcade games are "silly" or "cute", and that has an audience and a purpose. Others try to be as serious and realistic as possible, and that's got merit too. But it's relatively rare you get a game like Duke Nukem, where the character's random comments and gestures keep you laughing, while creating a fondness for the character himself. Yet at the same time, the game still appeals to the typical male's "violent side". You still get to blow things up and kill all sorts of aliens, and especially on multi-player mode, you had real strategies to employ. (I think it was the first of its type to make use of explosives you could drop and trigger remotely afterwards.)
At the end of the day though, how much do we "fondly remember" the main character in Quake, or even the space marine in Doom, compared to "The Duke"?
"expecting/hoping for this for some time." (Score:3, Funny)
You were dedicating neurons to this? You need to get out more.
Well, so....how long will they shut down? (Score:5, Funny)
SCNR...it is bad for the devs at 3d, but still...it opens a whole new series of jokes.
scheuri
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
(When) will DNF be released? (Score:5, Funny)
New answer: "No, we are done."
Talk about a blow to PC gaming... (Score:5, Funny)
This is like the vatican coming out and saying "Shows over people, no second coming. Sorry, pack it up and go home."
What ridiculous mythical everpresent promise are we going to look forward to now?
Re:Talk about a blow to PC gaming... (Score:5, Funny)
What ridiculous mythical everpresent promise are we going to look forward to now?
The year of Linux on the desktop, of course!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Pass the Cheetos, you unwashed tub of duck shit.
Re:It's been on my desktop for the last ten years (Score:4, Funny)
13 years of development down the drain (Score:4, Funny)
Damn... 13 years of development down the drain.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
good gnus (Score:5, Funny)
I guess the Hurd has a chance to beat Duke Nukem Forever to 1.0, after all! Who woulda thunk it?
Re:good gnus (Score:5, Insightful)
And in other news... (Score:5, Funny)
Guinness World Records reports that the long-standing record for constant masturbation previously held by Gooey, a chimpanzee at the Buffalo Zoo, in what was thought to be an unbreakable grip, was "overcome in one magnificent stroke" by the DNF team at 3D Realms.
The sheer magnificence of the accomplishment has moved a Guinness spokesman to suggest that DNF has actually outgrown the term "vapourware", and become something else entirely. He suggests a new definition, "spankerware", be coined to cummemorate this astounding, 12-year feat of dong-flogging. "If this were an anniversary, the appropriate gift would be linen...and lots of it", the spokesman said.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I'm here to kick ass (Score:5, Funny)
I'm here to kick ass and fund development!
And I'm all out of funds.
I propose... (Score:5, Interesting)
...that Wired names their annual vaporware awards in honor of Duke.
~Philly
Re:I propose... (Score:4, Funny)
But, of course, it must have a silly cutesey name like the "Dukey".
"Duke Nukem For Never" - That's funny! (Score:4, Funny)
The Duke Nukem Forever List (Score:5, Informative)
I think now would be as good a time as any to repost the Duke Nukem Forever List for those who haven't already read it, or remember it fondly and looking for a encore laugh.
Just as the DNF team would occasionally tease us over the years with trailers, the list has been updated to include humanity's latest accomplishments (and failures.)
Interestingly, a conversation regarding the late great duke came up at work just today...
Duke Nukem For[N]ever (Score:5, Insightful)
For a couple years I eagerly awaited DN4, but after that, enough is enough. I gave up the ghost, earned a college degree, started a career, and next thing I know, I'm almost 30. I literally have not thought once about DN4 in years until I saw this headline.
What a shocker. Not.
Does 3DRealms still deserve headline space? They haven't done anything innovative in years. Their management is curt, snarky, and drunk with hubris. If anyone dares to post something anti-3DR on their forums, the thread gets locked, Siegler and/or Broussard gets the last word, and the user gets banned. But that's cool. It's their forums, they can do whatever they want, and apparently they only allow sycophants.
"When it's done," they say. "The game will revolutionize interactivity," they say. "We don't need any money, we're 100% self-funded, and can afford it indefinitely because we are rock star developers and can sell ice to eskimos," they say. Oops.
How many engine changes did DN4 go through? How much work was wasted in redesigning all the levels over and over again? And most importantly, how much money could DN4 have made if they simply instilled a little more discipline than "when it's done" into their culture? Management has to be stunningly demented to squander such a valuable franchise, and instead be content with trickling out old Duke Nukem ports and re-makes. If I were a developer at 3DR, I would be seriously pissed at having busted my ass all these years without ever seeing a dime of royalty that could've been seven figures, and instead am now laid off and have to look for another job in this craptacular economy.
Memo to 3DRealms: thanks for the good times back in the day, but good riddance to your arrogance, your lack of respect towards the industry, and your vaporware promises. You will not be missed.
Re:Duke Nukem For[N]ever (Score:5, Funny)
What a shocker. Not.
Apparently, you retained some of your witticisms from when you were 15, as well. That's da bomb!!
Charlie Wiederhold's Chair Story (Score:5, Informative)
This is the strangest read I've had in a while:
http://gamingisstupid.com/2009/05/06/the-chair-story-revival/ [gamingisstupid.com]
I was told to think about my next words very carefully before giving my final answer. Honestly, I felt this was a test to see how well I would hold up to pressure later when we had to "hold the lie" (the similarity to "hold the line" isn't on accident), so I held firm and said I really wanted to, but needed to have it reviewed...
oh fuck...
Faster than I can even remember (literally... I don't remember) I was knocked out of my chair by I *think* of all people Tim Sweeney (it was a wooden kitchen chair) and was pinned on the ground by Mike Wilson and Cliffy B (he's so much stronger than I ever expected). George walks over to my chair and fucking stomps the shit out of it until the legs are broken off. He casually picks up one of the legs that had split into a shit your pants style point and starts tossing it up and down. Scott and Mark Rein alternate on and off saying that I apparently wasn't aware how *real* business is done and that if I didn't want to find out why those two companies had maintained such a strong position in the industry dating back to the shareware days (when it seems people didn't ask nearly as many questions about why developers appeared, made a game, and then disappeared without a trace)... I had better reconsider my answer.
I do remember the next part very very well though... I will never forget it and I have to admit that I have dreams about it pretty frequently.
Cliffy and Mike pulled me up and shoved my face about 6 inches from the point of the chair leg. I was drenched in sweat (the trailers didn't have decent AC so it was already hot as hell in there)... and if they had let go of me I would not have been able to stand on my own.
George looked me in the eyes and asked me one more time what I was going to do... so at that point I did what anyone would do...
I mean, this guy actually did work at 3DRealms and this is his blog, but seriously, CliffyB and Marc Rein threatening developers with broken chairs? Tim Sweeny tackling people and holding them down for gang beatings?
Re:Charlie Wiederhold's Chair Story (Score:5, Insightful)
I read "This is a story I wrote on..." to mean it was fiction. Do you honestly believe that if these people really behaved as described, that Charlie would post the entire story with his and everyone else's names intact?
Re:Charlie Wiederhold's Chair Story (Score:4, Funny)
I mean, this guy actually did work at 3DRealms and this is his blog, but seriously, CliffyB and Marc Rein threatening developers with broken chairs? Tim Sweeny tackling people and holding them down for gang beatings?
Pshaw! Thats nothing compared to what EA does to their employees.
Do you think its easy to code with broken thumbs?
this is so sad! (Score:5, Interesting)
I was patiently waiting for DNF since 1997 and I never lost hope that some day it would be done
to me, this is as if a relative had died
Cus (Score:3, Funny)
There's a plan to this project?
You know what'll happen (Score:3, Funny)
Wow. (Score:5, Informative)
Gotta love the site that lists all the things that have happened in the time DNF was "supposed" to be being made.
For instance, it took less time to implement and complete the entire Moon landing program.
The Beatles were formed, released every song, and split up in less time than it's been since DNF's initial announcement.
Wars came and went quicker.
The *entire* GTA series of games was released since the announcement.
58 Mario games were made since the announcement.
It always was a farce, always will be a farce. Even if the source was released tomorrow, complete and playable in every detail, DNF would *still* be the biggest development farce in gaming. It should have had its tail cut long ago, rather than constant "reinvention". All we can hope is that the developers and producers involved learn a lesson and start getting things out of the door in their new jobs. It sounds like it was technically good at most points but reinventing the wheel and constant, inept, managerial interruptions turned it into a circus (so, what else is new?).
Surely anyone with a brain would have left 3DRealms *long* ago anyway, if this is how it was working?
Re:Wow. (Score:4, Funny)
Hmm, getting paid for 15 years to produce nothing of value (as far as we can tell)... sounds like job security to me!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Until one day, you come in to work to be told that the company doesn't even exist any more?
And from what I read online, the turnover on staff was quite high during most of that time, and essentially they spent their time re-doing things they've already done. I can't imagine a worse job to be honest. Being employed to do the same thing that your friend did yesterday, knowing that it'll never finish. I would imagine anyone with half a brain got out of there a long time ago, which is probably part of the pr
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Interviewer: "So what have you been doing for the last 15 years?"
Applicant: "I've been working on Duke Nukem Forever!"
Interviewer: "Get the fuck out..."
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Since Take-Two has the publishing rights they're going to keep the DNF assets and current playable game and never release it or they're going to hand it over to another team that won't put forth the Duke style that one would expect. I really wish they would at least release a beta demo of the playable assets.
According to GameSpot, Take-Two only owns the publishing rights. The intellectual property still belongs to the developers, so don't hold your breath waiting for a Rockstar Studio to finish the job. http://www.gamespot.com/news/6209271.html [gamespot.com]
Re:The king is dead.... (Score:5, Funny)
hail to the king baby
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I didn't have the Nintendos all the other kids my age had, but I honestly think I had more fun with the Apogee/3D Realms games I played so much.
I grew up playing those games, like the Commander Keen series, Crystal Caves, Raptor: Call of the Shadows, Hocus Pocus, and Secret Agent... good times... (and that's not even counting Wolf 3D, Rise of the Triad, Terminal Velocity... a lot of great games). I was happy playing the shareware episodes over and over, so I wasn't a very good customer as a kid :)
I did buy
Re:What about facts? (Score:5, Funny)
Besides Bloussard in his blog mentioned that the check list of undone/buggy stuff for DNF has/had only 24 objectives left.
23. ?????
24. PROFIT!