Ads Retroactively Added To Wipeout HD, Soon Others 299
An anonymous reader writes "American users of Wipeout HD might have noticed that there's an advertisement showing up all of a sudden during loading, both during online and offline play. This, according to a poster on the well-known gaming forum NeoGAF, is being done covertly. The writer suspects that the display software was installed during update 2.01, and the ad-content is now being snuck in. Gamasutra has a story on the company responsible for the software to deliver these ads, Double Fusion, which said it plans to launch in-game advertising in 'another handful' of PS3 games by the end of the year. So, what's next? Can we look forward to fighting the Kool-Aid Man and zombified Mars bars in Uncharted, or is there anything that can be done to hinder companies from adding advertisements retroactively, without the customer's prior knowledge?"
ESRB (Score:5, Interesting)
Contact the ratings board and complain that the content of the game has changed.
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I don't think advertising has any impact on ratings unless the nature of the advertisement is mature content and the game is rated for everyone. I haven't seen the ad yet so we'll have to see.
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It doesn't matter that the content added is objectionable or not, but that it is now has different content than what was initially rated. And what if (GASP) they advertised smoking, drinks, or guns!
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Re:ESRB (Score:4, Funny)
may I recommend reading the very first sentence of the summary?
wait, sorry, forgot what site I was on for a moment.
Re:ESRB (Score:4, Informative)
They appear during online and offline play. However, that's a pretty bullshit disclaimer for them to use though. That is like the "your contract terms may change without notice" that got certain companies sued. [computerworld.com] Sorry, that's the easiest dig, but there are other examples.
It's called the "you're fucked clause", and companies love it.
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Re:ESRB (Score:5, Insightful)
so long as it is not offensive, what's the issue?
The point is that a change to the game's content could make them have to go through the ESRB review/rating process all over again, causing delays and maybe additional expenses for them. It'd be a way of making it a bit more of a hassle for them to assume that the game you bought with no such advertisements has now become a billboard.
I think ESRB makes an exception for "online play" (I'd speculate this is because of the difficulty/undesirability of censoring the other players) but it seems there were changes to offline play as well.
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Re:ESRB (Score:4, Interesting)
Advertising is an (often feeble, granted) attempt at mind control, and therefore offensive by definition.
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Advertising is an (often feeble, granted) attempt at mind control, and therefore offensive by definition.
Hate to break it to ye, but advertising serves an extremely vital function of modern society.
When somebody creates a good or service, they need to somehow communicate the availability of this good or service to the prospective public, or the good/service provider and the consumers are both denied the chance to improve their life, which is the definition of what a sale is: two parties agreeing that they a
Re:ESRB (Score:5, Insightful)
I rather think if this were a game I had already paid for, sans ads, that suddenly started showing them I would find the change quite offensive.
Re:ESRB (Score:4, Insightful)
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Guitar Hero World tour had ads also (Score:2)
Re:Guitar Hero World tour had ads also (Score:5, Insightful)
Some ads and product placement make sense in the context of a game. In sports stadiums or racing tracks, they may even ad realism. You just have to do it right.
But a video during a loading screen -- and worse, making it ten seconds longer? That's NOT acceptable.
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Billboards for "Toca Cola" always annoyed me more than anything. I don't care if the gameworld is plastered with real world ads... as long as they fit in. If it's BF2142 style blasted-landscapes that ad had better look the part, if it's some pristine billboard for something that just annoys me.
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I have never seen any ads in BF2142, as I blocked the range in my router before I bought the game. Assuming they come from a different server, it shouldn't be to difficult to do.
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Yeah, it seems that it gets more and more difficult for me to buy videogames, because they are all full of shit I don't want (DRM, ads...).
I wish people would start acting like grown ups and outright refuse to buy that sort of crap like me. But apparently most people don't care enough.
Boycott (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Boycott (Score:5, Insightful)
Read the summary?
How do you boycott something when the advertisements show up several months after you've bought it?
Re:Boycott (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Boycott (Score:5, Informative)
Never underestimate the power of complaining. Not buying their product doesn't tell them much. In all likelihood, they'll employ some asshat sales analyst who will come to the conclusion that sales are dropping because the products aren't marketed in the right way, or that it is because of the recession or some other stupid excuse, rather than work out that the product is actually perfectly fine and that the company itself is to blame for its shortcomings due to pissing off consumers previously.
Even if they do work it out, it'll take them 10 years to do it and by then the problem will be everywhere, so ingrained in that rather than fix it, they'll just re-brand themselves and target a newer, younger audience that's more tolerant of their bullshit.
If just 2% of the people reading this article sent off a quick email to SCEE Liverpool explaining their distaste at the new advertising, there's a good chance that Sony will at least have a meeting with some executives to decide if the revenue it generates is worth the lost customers and, with a bit of luck, they'll accidentally pass a motion to remove it.
But no matter what, always remember to stay positive, cynicism never got anyone anywhere!
Re:Boycott (Score:5, Funny)
But no matter what, always remember to stay positive, cynicism never got anyone anywhere!
That's a pretty cynical view of cynicism.
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Bright banners, flags, direct reactions from their customers, just like they try in your games.
First they will try and ignore you.
Protest, be on film all the time.
Watch as their rent a goons try and clear a space.
They laugh at you.
Go limp, make them work, get it all on tape.
If they go for the cameras, charge them with destruction of property, keep on filming.
Make sure you get the logos/brand.
As their security is tightened at every event they will
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I was presuming a boycott would involve the current product at hand. Its a tad hard to boycott Sony Entertainment if you own a PS3.
Re:Boycott (Score:5, Interesting)
I think you might just have a case here for the ultimate retroactive boycott: the credit card issuer chargeback.
They sold you a game. Then they added a double-dip, "secondary monetization" to what you already paid for. I'd call up MasterCard and see if they've got your back on this.
Honestly, the studio or publisher that did this needs to get hit hard. Ads are for freeloaders, not for paying customers.
PLEASE MOD PARENT UP (Score:4, Insightful)
I think you might just have a case here for the ultimate retroactive boycott: the credit card issuer chargeback.
They sold you a game. Then they added a double-dip, "secondary monetization" to what you already paid for. I'd call up MasterCard and see if they've got your back on this.
Honestly, the studio or publisher that did this needs to get hit hard. Ads are for freeloaders, not for paying customers.
From what I understand, chargebacks are a pain in the ass for retailers. They're also one of the few scenarios where the deck is stacked in the favor of you the customer. That's because the merchant really wants to be able to take $MAJOR_CARD but you as the customer can choose among several major credit cards. A small percentage of affected people doing this really would get some attention, methinks.
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Yeah, but I believe you have a limited time to request a chargeback don't you?
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Yeah, but I believe you have a limited time to request a chargeback don't you?
Two questions:
Does the delayed bait-and-switch nature of this incident mitigate any time limits for a chargeback? I'd imagine this is a question for a lawyer.
Do a multitude of good-faith chargebacks need to be successful in order to cause the expenditure of a lot of time, effort, and expense that would lead to a lot of pressure applied in the direction of avoiding a reoccurrence?
Re:PLEASE MOD PARENT UP (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, but I believe you have a limited time to request a chargeback don't you?
Read your agreement with your card issuer...
Depending on how long ago the transaction was, your bank/issuer may want additional information supporting your request.
In my case, I paid for a part on back-order and was told it might take up to 4 weeks to get the part in. After 4 weeks of nothing, I checked up and they said there had been some delays in the shipment and it wouldn't be much longer until I had it. A few weeks later they went bankrupt and closed (it later turned out they had been taking new orders to pay for older orders and other dodgy business practices. the company had a fairly good reputation leading up to my order).
I ended up successfully placing a chargeback on my card about 10 weeks after the payment, and after answering the bank's questions and providing them with my supporting documentation had the charge reversed about 3 months after the initial payment.
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Honestly, the studio or publisher that did this needs to get hit hard. Ads are for freeloaders, not for paying customers.
I assume your logic here only applies to games? The reason I ask is because that logic doesn't apply to television where everyone has to pay (for cable at least, not broadcast) and they still get commercials with the reason from the cable companies of course being that without the commercials we would have to pay even more. Of course, pay even more on top of base amount for premium channels and you finally can get away from commercials from what I last heard. I don't pay for the premium channels so maybe th
Re:Boycott (Score:5, Interesting)
I think you might just have a case here for the ultimate retroactive boycott: the credit card issuer chargeback.
I've just spoken to American Express Australia and have been told that I have no grounds to dispute this. Apparently, digitally distributed content is considered a service and not a product, so the same protections don't apply.
Moreover, I was told that unless I had - in writing - something that stated that no advertising would be introduced, I can't raise a complaint. Incredulous, I asked the support person if that mean that unless I had written evidence they wouldn't include hard core pornography in my game, I'd have no grounds for complaining about them introducing it. She replied that with services, this was indeed the case.
Next call: Sony!
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Dont let them get by with that crap, man.
If they claim you bought a service the proper response is 'no, I bought a product, that's what I negotiated and paid for, that's what I havent received, and that's why you WILL issue a chargeback on this.' Stick to that, keep repeating it, and dont stop until the charge has been reversed!
Re:Boycott (Score:4, Interesting)
This is certainly not the case in the UK. For example, when Virgin Media lost Sky 1 and a few other channels, my friends who had signed up to a 12 month contract only a couple of weeks before cancelled their service, got the installation fee refunded by the card issuer and cancelled their direct debit.
Could it hurt your credit rating? (Score:4, Interesting)
Repeat your request. Escalate the issue. Put it in writing. Repeat that cycle over and over again.
And then your credit report will likely brand you a "demon customer" [slashdot.org], other lenders will raise your rates (as they do in universal default [wikipedia.org]), and your insurance will drop you [insurancescored.com].
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This is the exact same shit the music and movie industries are trying to pull. It's not really new in software; just check the average EULA from any major vendor - they're trying to make it so you're not buying the game, you're just buying a license to use it temporarily.
I guess at some point it'll come to a head when someone finally cracks the shits and takes someone to court about it. The sooner the better, I reckon.
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What do you mean "trying to make it"? EULA's have been that way for well over a decade now.
Sadly I doubt 99% of people will bother raising a stink over this and Sony will rake in the money. As I said earlier, the money they make from whoring the game will be more than they'll lose from upset customers.
Just another reason to add to the reasons I refuse to buy Sony anything.
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A time-honored tradition: boycott the advertisers, and write letters to both the advertisers and the game company telling them you're doing so.
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Super Testosterone Massacre III
Is that a game or a product that they're advertising in wipeout HD?!? EITHER WAY I NEED IT!!!
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Ah, but the problem with this instance is that consumers aren't being warned that installing this new DLC will add, uh, ads to their game. I guess people know now and most are unwilling to upgrade.
I haven't had a chance to confirm this personally but there are claims that this is happening in the background, that there's no manual update which can be refused by the user.
Anyone know for sure if this is the case?
Blocking via the source? (Score:4, Interesting)
Alas, not everyone feels the outrage at having advertising shoved down their throats. I know that newspaper and tv REQUIRE ads to continue to be made, but you can get 77 issues of the WSJ for 70 bucks. That's a little more than a ps3 or xbox game, but the game isn't something completely new every day.
Bottom line, if you use ads, you should either seriously discount your product (newspaper) or provide it for free (broadcast TV), but charging users full price for a game or a DL game and then reaping the benefits of the ads that reduce play time from a session and degrade performance (longer load time = performance degredation) is not right.
Real bottom line: If you want more money from your game, make a better game, its on the console so you can't bitch about piracy, so do better or lose my business. If you previously got my business and then wish to make money off of providing ads to me in a game that there were previously no ads, I will be asking for a refund and encouraging all of my friends to do the same. If you didn't tell me that there would be ads or allow me to decline the ads, expect a general backlash. (I hope)
Lost sale (Score:2, Funny)
I was about to buy that - the demo looks so good on my new HD monitor. But then they pull this crap...
Wipeout HD = cheap to buy... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wipeout HD = cheap to buy... (Score:5, Insightful)
GP has not bought or played this. (Score:3, Insightful)
If the game were free, sure, ads would be completely permissible. But your standard $9.99 game on the PSN should be supported by the purchase price, and as you point out, Wipeout HD sells for double the usual amount, making it a premium PSN title. There is absolutely no excuse to "re-monetize" something like this, especially in such an intrusive way as increasing the load time for levels by an appreciable amount of time.
I think this may be one of those few cases where a credit card issuer chargeback is in o
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Next they'll be changing the music or lyrics of song I bought.
Licensed. BTW, rent's past-due Mr. Nikkos! If you don't lease a new white album by this time tomorrow, I'll start the repossession papers!
Making money on my dime? (Score:5, Insightful)
Here in the internet backwater country we call Australia we get a limited amount of bandwidth usage quota.
Every time the PS3/game downloads advertisements it uses my limited quota...
If I run out of quota I either have to buy more, or suffer 64kbit shaping...
And I consider myself lucky, some ISP's charge 18 cents per meg when you go over your quota without the ability to buy more.
I don't mind ads in web pages, or even sensible advertising in online gaming because they constantly require money to upkeep - but a game I've PAID FOR download and am playing OFFLINE doesn't cost the provider a damn cent!
Ask for your money back .... (Score:2, Insightful)
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you could try to go SUE happy and start a class action lawsuit? After all, you bought the game without ads and no clue they were going to do this.
I would bet that buried somewhere in the murky depths of Sony's EULA, there's a clause that lets them screw you this particular way - somewhere between the one where you promise your newborn as a sacrifice, and the one where you pledge to donate all your organs to the Sony executive board in case of death.
Redirect the DNS (Score:3, Interesting)
I neither own this game or the console its on - but I'm assuming the game downloads its ad content from a single source.
Block it on your DNS or redirect it to photos (or videos) you'd like to see during the loading of a level.
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It would be sweet if anyone who was getting the ads could upload a tcpdump log somewhere :)
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Interesting turn of events (Score:2)
This is a rather interesting turn of events.
wipEout was one of the first major games to feature in-game advertising of real-world products. The ads were very well targeted at the game's demographic, specifically Red Bull ads claiming that it improves reaction time.
These ads didn't adversely impact on the gameplay, in fact I'd say they enhanced it, as they added an element of realism to the game. Products that were aimed at the people playing the game, advertised on trackside billboards, just like they would
Only a few ways ... (Score:3, Interesting)
or is there anything that can be done to hinder companies from adding advertisements retroactively, without the customer's prior knowledge?
1. Pass another law.
2. Let the market decide.
3. Boil the bastards in oil.
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Is a class action lawsuit #2 or #3 ?
And it doubles the loading time (Score:5, Informative)
According to ShackNews, this also increases the between race load times from 12 seconds to 20 seconds.
Now that's 'meeting advertiser demand,' thanks Sony.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/59821
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Creativity (Score:4, Insightful)
So, what's next? Can we look forward to fighting the Kool-Aid Man and zombified Mars bars in Uncharted
If they were to start advertising like that, I think it would be welcome in a sense. I don't like the idea of a fullscreen ad taking up my screen when the game is loading (although it's not as though I have anything better to look at while loading).
If companies got really creative and were to add in special characters that pop in from time to time it could be more entertaining and feel less like they were cramming advertising down my retinas.
Picture a giant Sour-Patch man skateboarding as a competitor in a Tony Hawk Game. Or a Coca-Cola bottle skiing down the hill in Winter Sports 2.
Entertainment and advertising all combined into one may be fun and enjoyable. And may upset less people here at Slashdot.
Re:Creativity (Score:4, Insightful)
Picture a giant Sour-Patch man skateboarding as a competitor in a Tony Hawk Game. Or a Coca-Cola bottle skiing down the hill in Winter Sports 2.
To me, that would nonetheless totally ruin the game experience. If I feel I'm being expoited by the ad department, I find it hard to concentrate on having fun.
Greed knows no limits (Score:4, Insightful)
To be simple, greed knows no limits except those limits imposed by morality and by law. And in the case of modern business, there is no such thing as "morality" and so law is the only limit recognized by business. To be clear, unless laws are present to prevent it, 12 year olds will make your clothes and shoes in factories as can be demonstrated even today. Without laws, there would be billboards covering ever scene and location imaginable. I have no doubt that business would have no problem playing ads in your dreams if it were technically possible, and of course, legal.
There is nothing more important to modern business than money. Nothing. Not quality. Not human life. Not nature or the environment. All of that has been lost. It would be nice if that sort of morality could return, but I just can't imagine how. The story of how it was all lost would be an interesting story to hear. I just know we had some morality at some point and it was lost... I feel the loss.
hosts.txt (Score:5, Insightful)
Any players notice traffic to ad servers? Post the hostnames and people can just map them to 127.0.0.1.
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Actually that's not entirely accurate. Many SOHO routers allow for QoS or IP blocking for handling things like blocking your kids from MySpace. I know every Linksys router I recall ever owning has the ability to do this because I've had to block my kids access to one site or another over the years when we were having problems with grades, etc...
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Yeah but it's not like we can edit the hosts file on the PS3 now is it? :/ it does what I need.
I know I know this is slashdot, I should have some kind of linux based router but I don't, I have a standard one built in to my Billion ADSL modem, it's pretty powerful too
This move by Sony is pretty stupid to be honest, I've paid for this game, I don't like or support ad driven games which aren't free, not happy.
Money... (Score:2)
With money for the goal, how else did you expect to be treated? You will endure it just as the millions who endure television commercials, spam, and the rest of the world of business we've come to live in immersion with.
Imagine your world without money. The utopia you might imagine surely can't have anything to do with such a destructive force.
Sick of ads? (Score:2)
Hop aboard the Wii bandwagon. They may have friend codes, but they don't throw ads on your dashboards and in your games. Wii online is a very clean service. You will never be swamped with ads about "Double Pits to Chesty" on the Wii menu.
Yeah, it sucks. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's jarring, breaks the style of the game (old-school dollar bills for State Farm?), and sucks when you've bought both the game and the Fury update (Mirror's Edge costs less). This is the natural outcome of having a closed system that allows people to reach in and screw with things you've already "bought."
Of course, I also have an iPhone and iPod touch...
I can already see (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a difference. Non-disclosure is foolish. Providing free patches, partially funded by advertising revenue to you is not.
Sigh (Score:2)
I never bought a Playstation 3, I kinda wanted too... but being from Sony, I knew they'd screw it up somehow...
Re:Ad blocking (Score:4, Insightful)
This is only going to work if the ad server is not on Sony's delivery system.
And here I was planning to buy the DLC this week. I'm seriously reconsidering that idea. :(
I think if we want to protest this, refuse to buy the expansion release. Unfortunately the reality is you'll likely end up in the minority as most of the sheeple out there don't care enough to fight this.
Re:Ad blocking (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep. I'd estimate in my experience for every 20 or so people who say "Screw them, I'm not buying that", 1 will actually follow through.
I've boycotted a hell of a lot of games over the years due to copy protection, greed of the developer etc... I realise my boycott makes no difference to the company. But it does make a difference to me.
Sony will make more money from the advertising than they'll lose from disgruntled customers sadly, until such time as the consumer at large grows a set and stands up to say "Enough".
Re:Ad blocking (Score:5, Informative)
FWIW, I just fired up my PS3 and refused the 2.01 update (I never played the game online anyways) and no advertisements. I know the other site is saying that it may not be tied to the update but unless I start seeing them I'll conclude that it is.
So, that settles that. I'm not buying the DLS or accepting the 2.01 update.
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Sony pulled the ads.
http://www.n4g.com/News-371384.asp [n4g.com]
Re:Ad blocking (Score:4, Informative)
They pulled the ad when they found out it changed the load time [edge-online.com]. They had an agreement with the ad provider that any ads would match the game's aesthetic, too.
Re:Ad blocking (Score:5, Funny)
Realizing that 50% of consumers lack the genes necessary to "grow a set", I stand by, ready to offer the use of my set. For a small recompense, of course. The wife wouldn't like me to be giving it away for free. (She is so mercenary!)
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Okay, you win.
You must be new to the internets, you never say "You win", you try to:
If you can mix all of them in one it's an instant argument win:
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Yep. I'd estimate in my experience for every 20 or so people who say "Screw them, I'm not buying that", 1 will actually follow through.
I'd say it is much worse than that.
How many gamers will even bother to - pretend - that they are going to boycott a game or a publisher?
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Rather than boycotting the game, it would be better if people who already bought it returned it for a refund.
Not only does that send the right message (we like your game and will pay for it, but are not willing to put up with adverts and you messing with it after we bought it), but it is far more visible than people not buying the game. You can't count the number of lost sales, but you can count the number of refunds you had to process.
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To mod or reply...to mod or reply...
REPLY!
From the summary: ...and you nailed it. Don't buy their products anymore. While not a retroactive solution, proactive is better then no solution.
"is there anything that can be done to hinder companies from adding advertisements retroactively"
When they see sales start to drop, along with the increase in complaints, the money starts to talk.
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Don't buy their products anymore. While not a retroactive solution, proactive is better then no solution.
Sell it back to them, saying "that wasn't part of the deal".
Oh, and it's 2009 now, any game that still requires a loading screen should die out soon. Seriously, loading screens were fine on C64s and 286s, now my fucking laptop has 3 Gb of RAM. USE IT.
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It's not a loading screen.
It's an advertisement screen disguised as a loading screen which attempt to "load in" enough data to satisfy the display time agreed upon with the client.
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Maybe they did it on accident? That'd be really ironic.
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"All of a sudden" doesn't really make any sense either. "Suddenly" does work and it's more succinct to boot. /whatever "to boot" means
Re:All of A sudden (Score:4, Funny)
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Can this description include anyone who says "new-key-ler" to describe atomic phenomena?
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Wish I hadn't spent all my mod points already. These stupid phrases annoy me everytime I see them as well. Oh well...
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No, no he didn't.
WHOOOOOOOSH!
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Yes, because putting ads in a game is exactly the same as compromising a system at the root level and leaving it exposed to god knows what.
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Yes, because putting ads in a game is exactly the same as compromising a system at the root level and leaving it exposed to god knows what.
I acknowledge that what you said there is accurate though I question its purpose. I just think the AC's point that "you as a potential customer should know that a Sony product has shown itself to be untrustworthy in these two different ways" is significantly more important than your point that "these two different ways were more different than the GP may have indicated."
Those different ways actually have quite a bit in common. Remember that the rootkit was a DRM device. So, these are two different exp
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And I don't recall Live originally having ads. In fact, I don't remember any ads at all on the Xbox 1.
The most "brazen" example of in-game advertising I've seen is 1 vs. 100, but that's understandable as the game is "free" (besides the Live subscription). Although it remains to be seen if they will charge for the full version. Seeing as how they seem to be making the game more buggy as they release more bu
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It's not so much that there is advertising in the game. It's that a game that's been out for a year and is premium-priced on the PlayStationNetwork Store "all of a sudden" had commercials added via a nearly automatic update. To add insult to injury, said commercials are adding