Religion in Video Games 523
The Opposable Thumbs blog recently took a look at how religious themes are handled in video games. Most makers of mainstream games are hesitant, given the strong feelings of most consumers on the subject, but other companies are trying desperately to bring religion into the spotlight. Quoting:
"Part of the problem is that the game industry is often touted as being a corrupting influence for the youth of the world. Criticism against the game industry has come from leaders as high up as the current Pope, and many of us who have been exposed to sermons bemoaning the influence that games and movies have on kids. Even when groups like the Christian Game Developers Foundation put out a video encouraging developers to create wholesome titles for kids, the attitude conveyed towards current members of the industry was contemptuous at best. Needless to say, games with heavy religious content are usually fringe projects, independently created and oftentimes sporting dodgy production values, because publishers wisely don't want to risk boycotts from legions of the faithful."
My level 80 warlock (Score:3, Funny)
says religion has no say in games. And I'm on the good guys side ;)
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Sarah Silverman? Is that you? You're all I want for Hanukkah!
First, make a good video game (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Insightful)
But the whole point of these Christian "developers", like Christian "rock/pop musicians" is not to put out a quality product, it's to get the faithful to fork over money. Obviously these kinds of products are not going to be marketed at the mainstream, because the mainstream could give a shit about a bunch of whacked-out Evangelicals and snake-oil dealers.
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Insightful)
But the whole point of these Christian "developers", like Christian "rock/pop musicians" is not to put out a quality product, it's to get the faithful to fork over money.
In other words, rather then being the "snake oil" dealers you claim they are, they are just simply like every single business on the planet. They identify a market, then they look for a way to make money serving that market. There is clear demand for Christian Rock, and the customers obviously buy the music because they enjoy its message, just as one might buy a regular album (or especially a concept album) because one enjoys its message.
The only problem with video games is they are expensive to produce and to buy. A series of Christian games might work, but it is a gamble. Books and songs require relatively less staff than a video game. Of course, a game with an underlying religious message could very much stand a chance at success, but an expressly "Christian Game" might not.
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Insightful)
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And the only business with a reality destortion field bigger than Steve Jobs.
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait a second. Christian rock is bad because it doesn't have the macarena ?
Check again ... bad ?
Boy, I'd heard tastes differ, but I had no idea.
Given that as little as a century ago a (very) large majority of music was purely religious, I'd take that "tools the 'other side' has used for centuries with a hefty helping of salt).
Most of those "brilliant" themes you refer to being used in songs, imho, sound suspiciously familiar to someone with a decent knowledge of, heh, 16th century music. Very familiar indeed. One regularly recognizes long parts of those symphonies. Using strategic silences for suspense and dramatic effect has been done in operas since before the first letter was written in the bible.
The fact that those themes are repeated is logical in a way, since that old music is still how music is taught even today. Which, honestly, is a good thing. You can't teach someone more than 2 notes or patterns longer than 5 seconds with any recent song.
The "successful music" you refer to is merely the "big mac" version of last centuries' game feast. Yes they take very little time and effort to "enjoy to the fullest" (most take me less than a second to do that), but they're lacking in every single department. They're not satisfying, you cannot listen to them for even the paltry 2 minutes they last, most are rightfully identified as "noise", they're bad for the ear (and for the stomach if played at the "advised" volume), they lack depth, it is a rarity to have any kind of message in there, and ... They're "big macs". There's loads of music out there that you can listen to for 2 days continuously and still not be revolted by.
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:4, Interesting)
A lot of religious mythology would make pretty awesome settings for games.
"Bring me the foreskins of 100 Philistine warriors, bonus points for 200" - Quest from "A Lorena Bobbit in King Saul's court"
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Insightful)
A video game based on the Bible would be more violent than GTA and have to be rated M++ for all the sex.
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Funny)
Coming soon: Grand Lot's Daughters! Live in the Biblical town of Sodom! Get offered by your father to be raped by gangs of men! And have them turn you down!! After which you flee and get your father drunk and rape him!!! Preorder today from your nearest Christian Gamer store.
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Informative)
The rating you are looking for is AO, adults only. It's a real ESRB rating. It is more or less the "anything goes" rating. The reason you don't see much of it is because most retailers refuse to carry games with that rating. It's a real rating though and there have been a few games with it (Sim's Singles being one of them). An accurate depiction of the Old Testament would most certainly qualify for that rating.
Of course that's not what the fundie Christian types want. They are rather... selective in their knowledge of the bible. There are parts of the OT and NT they like and would want in a game, there are other parts they like to forget about.
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The rating you are looking for is AO, adults only. It's a real ESRB rating. It is more or less the "anything goes" rating. The reason you don't see much of it is because most retailers refuse to carry games with that rating. It's a real rating though and there have been a few games with it (Sim's Singles being one of them). An accurate depiction of the Old Testament would most certainly qualify for that rating.
I don't see why you'd think that. About the only thing that gets AO is actual pornography. The Bible discusses sex sometimes, but never very explicitly. It relies very heavily on euphemism – "know" and "lie with" and so on. The most explicit things I can think of are in Song of Songs, and that's very mild by today's standards. (Like: "Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.") Likewise, the Bible doesn't depict graphic violence, it just says something
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That's because most of the bible is an account of human history and humanity
Most of the Bible is fairy tales loosely based on vague occurrences, from some parts of human history, in some parts of the world, transcribed so many times it has about the same amount of truth in it as a Monthy Python movie. I wouldn't dare calling it an account of human history, humanity is way, way more than just the few Christian tidbits recorded in Bible.
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Informative)
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Does praying that I can reload my auto-shotgun before the tank punts me across the room count?
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Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Insightful)
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"Man I fucking hate that phrase. "
Me too. I was an open atheist through my 26 years in the USAF, found plenty of agreement, and when I pointed out to the questioning theists that I was volunteering to serve to protect _our_ freedom they promptly chilled out.
Atheists don't have imaginary playmates to delude us into doing what we prefer to do anyway (affirmation is the purpose of religion) yet we manage to function quite well.
Re:First, make a good video game (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, my grandpa was at the real Normandy -- on Omaha Beach and through the front lines of the European invasion. You should see his reaction to my brother playing Medal of Honor. He just shakes his 90-year-old head and walks away.
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Which is something I believe old veterans have been doing to movies, songs, and sagas of war since man first stuck a pointy bit of flint on a stick and called it a spear.
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Could turn out to be interesting, a game based on the old testament could be plausible, where you get missions directly from God (enslave your neighboring tribe, kill every man in another tribe, ...). It would be very violent though, so I don't think it would get approved for children.
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My problem is that I do believe the Bible and if my kids were playing a game I would not want it "loosely based" on things. I'd imagine Hindus, Buddhists, etc would not really like their religious figures turned into game characters either... and that's why publishers won't touch it.
You mention C.S. Lewis, who was a heavy proponent of Allegory and fantasy in stories. I'm more like Tolkien in that I want my stories as "play" and my religion taken seriously. C.S. Lewis did a bit of disservice because many of
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Take note of Assassin's Creed's disclaimer though. When you run the game they state it was created by a multinational team of various faiths and beliefs.
I swear, the number of times I failed because I _HAD_ to kill those damn public speakers (you know, whining about Salahadeen (sp?) and/or Richard) ... Yes! It's a crusade for madness! And I am the harbinger! stab
(you would have had to play it to understand this)
a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Insightful)
How about someone create a game that occurs during the inquisition when the ignorant Christians killed thousands of people who wouldn't convert to their religion?
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Thousands of people killed by Christians during the Middle Ages was a horror. Millions of people killed by atheist Soviets was worse by at least an order of magnitude.
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Interesting)
The Crusades resulted in the deaths of roughly ninety to one-hundred-eighty thousand non-combatants (nominal civilians, over a multi-century period. This was the 28th most severe invasion of the fertile crescent after all, falling behind only such other invasions as the Califate, The Hittite expansion, Assyria, Alexander the great, and 24 other wars with higher death tolls.
If you include crusades not directed at the holy land, such as the Fourth Crusade versus Constantinople, the Albigensian Crusade versus the Cathars and the Northern Crusades, a Million is not an unreasonable death toll. That's both ways of course, not just the 'Christian side' body-counts, and includes wars where both sides claimed to be Christian.
The witch burnings were really post middle ages (about 1480 to 1700) spanning the Reformation and the Thirty Years' War, resulting in a problem of figuring out which executions were witch related and which were of Cathars, political and nationalist based population obliterations and so on. Best estimates for a death toll definitely cross the line into the 100,000-110,000 range. but still taking over 200 years total to do so, and falling behind not just the rest of the thirty years war, but the hundred years war, maybe the English civil war, the Armenian atrocities, and a couple of mid 20th century events I won't bother to mention in the same areas. It's even possible that what Vlad personally did to combat the Muslim invaders of Transylvania resulted in more civilian deaths than the witch trials.
The best estimates for the Spanish Inquisition come from the church's own records, and thousands of people who wouldn't convert is quite accurate, in fact the best guess is around 32,000. I wouldn't mind seeing a game in this setting, but if it's a typical first person shooter, The Player will probably have to gibe that many personally to get a high score.
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Yet another way of the looking at it is that both are equally bad, but atheists are just more efficient.
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i do wonder, how much of that was stated as "for atheism", vs how much of the crusades or similar was stated as "for god"?
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:4, Insightful)
Newsflash: Hitler was at the very least a deist. Stalin was an equal-opportunity persecutor. Mussolini was a good Italian, and a catholic.
Christians are not a persecuted minority. Get over it. You have no idea what actual persecution is like.
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Insightful)
Worst case - converting to Christianity from Islam - can get you killed in many countries.
To be fair, converting to anything from Islam can get you killed in those countries - it isn't really Christian-specific. Can you name someplace where Christians are hard-core persecuted significantly more than atheists or Jews?
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with these arguments is that 1930s Germany and Russia were just as religious as a devoutly Catholic state. Hitler took Christian Christmas carols and substituted God's name and Jesus's name with his own, in an attempt to make people worship him. Stalin did something very similar. The common pattern is that blind devotion to another being is dangerous. If you blindly worship your political leader, you're willing to slaughter people for him. If you blindly worship a deity (emphasis on the blindness here - Martin Luther was religious, but he saw the Church as a bunch of frauds), you're willing to slaughter people because his church tells you to.
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The bible in many places says to kill others, despite the so-called ten commandments, and encourages various forms of capital punishment, too, for violation of various laws. The new testament claims to do away with these laws, but one wonders why god made a book that was so important so ambiguous on the topic.
Perhaps you should try reading the book before commenting on it. I have. If the bible didn't tell people not to kill, then why have so many people been killed, say, for being witches because of the pas
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That would be because the proper Commandment is thou shalt not murder. Which is utterly different from thou shalt not kill.
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides which, this should have rang alarm bells:
Quite frankly, I don't care if they're persecuting others to spread religion, spread ideology, or to sell chocolates. I don't care what they call themselves. The whole damn problem is the persecution. The reason, by comparison, is unimportant and interchangeable - that's the whole friggin' idea behind Skub vs anti-Skub.
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Yes, unfortunately Christians think "you're a fucking nutbag, get away from me, and no I wont vote for you" is persecution.
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During the Black Plague, the disease was spread by the fleas which rats carried. Back then, people blamed (amongst other things) rats. These days, however, we (correctly) blame the fleas for being the actual carrier. See,
Where am I going with this? Surprise! This is an analog
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The Christians persecute others to spread their religion. Atheists persecute others for other reasons.
Atheists persecuted nobody, ever, in history.
However, Atheists can also be Nazis, Communists, Drug Lords or whatever else causes them to persecute someone. Surprise! So can christians, muslims, hindus, etc.
You're confusing one attribute of a many with his cause for action. You could just as well have said "blonde people persecute others" or "homosexuals persecute others" or "people with white shirts persecute others", because you will certainly examples of that. Except, of course, that anyone with half a b
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Insightful)
But I'm sure it makes you feel better that atheists did it because they didn't want to "spread their religion". Even though I'm rather quite sure the USSR persecuted Christians in order to, you know, spread atheism.
"Spread atheism," my ass. They encouraged fucking pilgrimages to observe the corpsicle of Lenin! Know what they didn't encourage? Skepticism, rationality, or reason! The three cornerstones of atheism.
They created a goddamn religion around themselves and the state, complete with holy relics and faith-based "science." That's not atheism, so stop repeating that drivel. I'm guessing you're American, since American schools are so damn terrified to teach anything related to politics, that it churns out countless poor saps who don't understand that the label a politician slaps on himself usually has nothing to do with what he is.
For example: The "Union" of "Soviet" "Socialist" "Republics" was actually an Empire(1) of Anti-soviet(2) State-capitalist(3) Dictatorships.(4)
(1) - The satellite countries were generally added by military conquest, not some polite handshake, so it was Empire, not Union.
(2) - The Bolsheviks first borrowed the anti-Bolshevik slogan "All power to the soviets!" for themselves to confuse people like you, then when they had seized power, they disbanded the soviets (which were independent democratically run worker's councils) and told everyone that they were no longer a necessary component for the workers to control the means of production, because the will of the workers was now somehow metaphysically embodied in the premier. (Another religious theme!)
(3) - A socialist economy, where the workers actually controlled the means of production, was never anything more than a vague promise to be fulfilled, maybe, someday in the USSR. A rationed "command economy" was put in place as a "temporary" measure only for wartime. It never ended, because it gave the party too much power to skim and control. The whole system operated like one huge corrupt mega-corporation, except that the middle managers had guns and the cubicles were prisons.
(4) - The last is self explanatory. With only one candidate to vote for you don't even have the choice of the lesser of two evils, and you can't honestly call it a Republic.
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Insightful)
> Skepticism, rationality, or reason! The three cornerstones of atheism.
The cornerstone of atheism is what the word means --- to believe in no god. Mao and Stalin may not have been the sort of atheists you like, but they were certainly keen on spreading their brand of atheism.
You are committing the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman [wikipedia.org]
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:4, Interesting)
OK, I looked it up and it's Bill Maher. Someone I'm only vaguely aware of because I'm not American. But I've scanned his Wiki entry to discover what you were referring to. It says this:
"In October 9, 2009, on his HBO show, Maher debated the effectiveness of flu vaccinations with Bill Frist and stated, "Why would you let them be the ones to stick a disease into your arm? I would never get a swine flu vaccine or any vaccine. I don't trust the government, especially with my health." Maher also expressed skepticism about the seriousness of the swine flu and whether completely healthy people could die from it. His comments have generated criticism, and his remarks have been called unscientific and even harmful.[43]
"Maher responded to the criticism, noting, "What I've read about what they think I'm saying is not what I've said. I'm not a germ theory denier. I believe vaccinations can work. Polio is a good example. Do I think in certain situations that inoculating Third World children against malaria or diphtheria, or whatever, is right? Of course. In a situation like that, the benefits outweigh costs. But to me living in Los Angeles? To get a flu shot? No."[44]"
That's not anti-vaccine. That's legitimate skepticism of the benefits of a particular vaccine versus the risk of the disease itself. And elsewhere he expresses legitimate skepticism of the US healthcare system - which doesn't imply rejection of healthcare in general. Just the broken system you have there.
Skepticism is very much an atheist principle, not a religious one.
Now it you'd come up with some evidence that he believed in homeopathy, or some such unscientific nonsense, then I'd agree with you that that's a religious type belief. But there's nothing like that here. Skepticism is not belief. It's the opposite.
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:4, Insightful)
Women, gays, and blacks, to name the first three that pop into my head. That's >50% of the world's population right there. They may not be into killing and burning anymore, but they have definitely persecuted them.
No, they did it to spread communism. But the sister post here explains things better than I can. But let me leave you with one more thought. There's not a shred of evidence to support the superstitious belief that there's a god or almighty power or to support the various religions. We have no way to say whether Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Mormonism, or various others have it right. So why do people kill each other over these things? In light of this, the skeptical viewpoint is the only sensible one, and if we so far haven't been able to deal with that truth without killing people, then we need to figure out how. Trying to make everyone believe in the same superstition doesn't seem like a very workable solution here and religion has never been very good at tolerance. It's right there in the holy book that they're not supposed to be tolerant.
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Oh, please. Every single Christian argument I've ever read (and trust me, I've read a few), boils down to some variation on the following:
1. We don't know there isn't a god, so there must be one (of course, that may be true, but why must it be a Christian god?).
2. We can't explain everything yet, so there must be a god to explain the unknown (same problem as the last one).
3. Jesus seems like a pretty good guy. Why would he lie (too easy)?
4. My piece of toast looks like the face of Jesus.
None of these claims
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Insightful)
How many people have Christians persecuted since, say, 1800?
Where to begin?
Dark skinned people can be used as work animals because they're "Hammites" - cursed by God for the sins of Ham after the flood.
Plenty of US states' constitutions barred non-believers from public office.
Some people are still trying to enforce [latimes.com] them.
Catholics and Protestants in Ireland.
Some states won't allow single people to adopt kids - solely because that's the only legal way to bar gays from adopting.
Then there's the whole gay marriage thing...
And that's what I can come up with in two minutes while sleep deprived.
But I'm sure it makes you feel better that atheists did it because they didn't want to "spread their religion".
Killing people to spread Communism isn't the same thing as killing to spread atheism, atheism alone doesn't tell you to kill anyone (nor does it endorse any other moral stance). Christianity is based on a book that bluntly says to stone certain people to death, that repeatedly discusses the proper way to practice slavery, that says God approves of some kids of genocide (yes, in order to spread His religion) - you have to add something else (like a specific interpretation) to avoid endorsing the bad stuff.
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Insightful)
"Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby."
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Insightful)
It is a hobby if you go around talking about how great it is [richarddawkins.net] to not collect stamps, and join not collecting stamp clubs [atheists.org], and read Not Collecting Stamps Monthly. [infidels.org] I get where that sentiment is coming from, I really do, and have to say I agree with it, but I don't think that it is always the case anymore.
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:4, Insightful)
What you speak of is less the trappings of religion and more the trappings of assholes who want to feel better than you. I think every group is guilty of a few of these folks.
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:5, Insightful)
If there were people killing each other over stamps and forcing others to be collectors, then I promise you there would be not collecting stamp organizations
Stamp Pogroms (Score:3, Funny)
Now there's an idea for a video game.
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Atheists don't "not collect stamps", they believe collecting stamps isn't a hobby and can't ever be a hobby.
(p.s. I'm not religious; neither theist nor atheist).
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:4, Informative)
Atheism is not faith in the absence of a God, it is absence of faith in a God.
/Mikael
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One of my favorites :) Here are some more:
Which goes along nicely with one of my own creation:
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See this [about.com]:
Many people who adopt the label of agnostic reject the label of atheist — there is a common perception that agnosticism is a more “reasonable” position while atheism is more “dogmatic,” ultimately indistinguishable from theism except in the details. This is not a valid position to adopt because it misrepresents or misunderstands everything involved: atheism, theism, agnosticism, and the nature of belief itself. It also happens to reinforce popular prejudice against atheists.
Know your terms (Score:3, Informative)
Agnosticism is about epistemology -- it's the position that you can't know for certain whether or not god exists.
Theism/atheism is about ontology.
Theism is believing gods exist.
Atheism is believing god does not exist.
Most agnostics are either atheist or theist. There are few agnostics who leave the existence of god in that quantum state of both existing and not existing.
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There's three versions of atheism I'm aware of: I don't believe in God because no-one's (tried to) convince me of it; I don't believe in God because there's adequate non-theological explanations for why we're here and/or the explanations that rely in God introduce as many problems as they solve; I don't believe in God, but I don't disbelieve in him either (also classifiable as a subvariety of agnosticism).
So because you can't come up with more than 3 versions of atheism, atheism is less diverse than the variety in Christianity?
I know a few more variants: I don't believe in God because it doesn't make sense; I don't believe in God since I don't see why I should believe in God, and not in Allah, Brahma, extraterrestials or whatever; I don't believe in God because all the God-stories are inconsistent and ambiguous; I don't believe in God because the moment I start asking religious people about things they end u
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contrary to what the "majority" say, they are not the majority
However, what you say is contrary to these "facts and religions" you as this "high and mighty atheist" claim to "adhere" to. Just about every site I've seen estimates the number of Christians at about 2.1 billion, Islam at 1.5 billion and only about 1.1 billion as non-religious. Just right there you can see how the facts contradict with your statements. How does this make you any better of a person than a religious hypocrite?
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In a few hundred years, we can only pray that the "religion" will only be a small bloody chapter in the history of humanity.
And to whom (or what) will we be praying?
In any case, since humanity has been slaughtering one another over religion (or at least using religion as the excuse) throughout its entire history, it will hardly ever be a "small" chapter. The body count of the Muslim sectarian violence going on right now with no end in sight has already approached if not exceeded that of most of history's religiously-inspired wars.
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That wasn't a rant, simply an example of you deceiving yourself with a common logical fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman [wikipedia.org]
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But, as you suspect, it's not. Just as being a Scotsman isn't defined by not killing people. The "No true Scotsman" fallacy applies here completely. It's a textbook example.
Re:a game that tells the truth about religion (Score:4, Insightful)
A society who has no death penalty or sense of objective morality historically leads to less & less morality and more violence.
Yeah, because the US with its death penalty and religious freaks has less criminals per capita and less violence than Europe.
I agree that killing people for not converting to Christianity is wrong. But, by definition, those who practice such things are not Christians.
No, you're just pretending that all the Christians you don't like aren't Christians. Christianity was spread by killing those who wouldn't convert, it's well documented that's how it happened here in Norway (around 1000 AD) and the Church was fully supporting it. Most famous are of course the Crusades that were blessed by the Pope himself, but there are many more. They only stopped most the killing because the competition was dead, the roman mythology, the greek mythology, the norse mythology, the keltic mythology, all dead. And if you think the missionary efforts during colonization weren't backed up with a lot of lethal force, you are dreaming. The african tribal religions, the Mayan religion, the Aztec religion, the native American religions were all crushed by conquest and forcibly raising the population in the Christian tradition. You're just reaching for the moral high ground but you stand on a pile of skeletons.
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by definition, those who practice such things are not Christians.
Who's definition is that? Maybe you have not read your bible lately?
Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
And when you decide to actually do gods work, here is where you can start...
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
These are just a few of HUNDREDS of examples in the bible of god promoting death and murder.
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I agree that killing people for not converting to Christianity is wrong. But, by definition, those who practice such things are not Christians.
If you limit the definition of Christian to those who only follow all the rules of Christianity, no one is a Christian. How many so-called Christians do you know who eat shellfish?
Religion isn't needed in video games (Score:5, Insightful)
In the end, I don't think there is a need for religion in video games. While it will always and has always been referenced, theres just no good reason to put it in.
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Actually, it is. Haven't you heard? It's the opiate of the masses.
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Religion (Score:5, Insightful)
Religion does exist in video games. They aren't usually the same religions as we have meatside, however. I think that's what people are complaining about. The problem is if you let, say, World of Warcraft priests worship the Christian god, then people will automatically boycott when it doesn't follow a particular sect's beliefs. In fact, they'd have no combat skills at all if they followed the word of the Bible.
Instead, religions are made up, relatively shallow, and may be based on the history that took place in the game. Sounds a lot like real religions, doesn't it?
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Religion does exist in video games. They aren't usually the same religions as we have meatside, however. I think that's what people are complaining about. The problem is if you let, say, World of Warcraft priests worship the Christian god, then people will automatically boycott when it doesn't follow a particular sect's beliefs
There's a blocker that comes up before that -- the game designers don't like to do it. The issue is that the game designer is the game's Creator -- he designs the rules, even intervenes with server-upgrades. It, therefore, starts feeling a bit blasphemous to ascribe your own "game-supernatural" actions of creation to God. So, game designers and programmers who believe in God don't want to put their words into His mouth; and the atheist ones don't want God in their game anyway.
Modern Warfare: The Return of Christ (Score:5, Funny)
Christ is risen, and boy, is He pissed.
After receiving the authority to smite the tribes of Islam, Christ joins the eighty deuces and gets his revenge on vegetarians, homosexuals, eaters of shellfish, and of course, unbelievers and blasphemers. Armed with a robe and the wrath of Yahweh, step into the sandals of He Who Is Righteous as he transforms from the Prince of Peace to the Prince of Blowing Motherfuckers to Pieces. Use conventional weapons to kill the wicked or send plague upon plague to the unfortunate souls dumb enough to defy you. Raise past holy warriors from the dead to join your army of brutal goodness, and get bonus points for killing Arab leaders and sending them to Hell.
Feel the rage of the righteous! Coming Spring 2010...
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
He better watch out for the hindus... [youtube.com]
Ahh see they are being disingenuous (Score:5, Insightful)
They say they are interested in religion in games. Well, in fact there IS religion in quite a few games. In some cases a religious mythology forms the basis for the game's world, in other cases there are various religious characters who influence things and so on. That's not what they want. They want a game that evangelizes their religion. They want one that shoves it in your face, that tries to show it as The One True Way(tm).
Well, games like that are basically always going to suck. Evangelism isn't fun. What's more, it turns off most people so major developers won't do it. When you have an inherently shitty premise and combine that with a shitty developer you are going to get a total crap fest.
In terms of mainstream games, religion will continue to be a role in them as it always has been. Often it'll be fictional religions, since they are often set in fictional worlds. However you'll continue to see religious characters of one sort or another in games where such a thing is useful to the story. However you aren't going to see games designed around pushing a religion. Those aren't fun, and they won't sell well, so major publishers aren't going to fund them.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
While not quite as sinister as your comment implies, Black and White is an excellent example of this and the topic in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_&_White_(video_game) [wikipedia.org]
I agree with the parent, evangelism isn't fun in games unless it underpins a characters background or motivations. Diablo 1 and 2 are also good examples of religious mythology used well in games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_(video_game) [wikipedia.org]
Assasins Creed 1 and 2 are also good examples. I believe the non-deity of Jesus is t
Too Much Time On Their Hands (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Since they have too much time on their hands (per your subject), you'd think they'd fit right in here on Slashdot.
Re: article tag (Score:3, Insightful)
Bullshit (Score:3, Insightful)
The other way to look at it is that games are trying to be a form of art. If they're not willing to tackle religion, they're just throwing away their legitimacy. Whether you're religious or not, I think you would agree that religion plays a major role in the world today and as such is an interesting topic to explore from a narrative standpoint. It's not even necessary to single out a religion by name, but exploring ideas such as polytheism, religious crusades, or corruption of religious institutions can add something interesting to a game. In fact, I think that an exploration of some philosophy is something that is sadly lacking from so many games today. If someone were to make a game exploring these themes I would be tempted to buy it, even if the gameplay weren't as good as another title in the genre.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
but exploring ideas such as polytheism, religious crusades, or corruption of religious institutions can add something interesting to a game.
You mean like what Tales of Symphonia did? If you haven't played the game I strongly recommend that you do as it basically covers corruption in religion, the morality of war, etc. All while being quite possibly the best RPG for the GameCube (not that there was much competition). (look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Symphonia#Story [wikipedia.org] if you want an overview of the plot).
SimChurch (Score:5, Interesting)
If religion in games was done right, it would make kids too cynical. Imagine this game:
"SimChurch - start your own religion, gain adherents, build a church, advertise, and grow. You can tweak your theology - too loose, and your people lose interest; too strict, and your people backslide. You can ask your followers for financial support, but ask too hard and they'll drop out. You can train fanatics to help you expand, but they may turn against you."
"In multiplayer mode, you can try to convert people from other religions to yours. Become strong enough in an area, and you can convert your country to a theocracy. Then you can have wars with other theocracies."
"If your theology calls for miracles, they might just happen. But they won't always help you. You can also fake miracles, once you have enough assets, and gain adherents that way."
This would teach kids way too much about how religion really works.
Re:SimChurch (Score:5, Informative)
>>This would teach kids way too much about how religion really works.
Sure you don't want to call it Church Tycoon?
But honestly, having worked with/on church councils, while you see a lot of the politics you see in, well, all social organizations, churches are actually filled with good people who are trying to make a difference in society. Perhaps your game could actually encompass some of that, instead of just focusing on monetary issues.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure you don't want to call it Church Tycoon?
I propose L. Ron Hubbard: The Video Game.
Re:SimChurch (Score:5, Insightful)
This is probably the most brilliant "Sim" game I've heard of since SimCity! I would buy this in a second, it is really a brilliant idea! And it would be GREAT education for kids!
Re: (Score:2)
Personally, my views on religion are nowhere near as cynical. There are those in it for the money/power/glory, but I think there are other leaders who truly believe what they preach, and have reasons for believing it. Of course, the more they ask of their congregations, the lessI tend to believe that their motives are "pure".
Phil
Dodgy Production Values? (Score:2)
One can only imagine the modern remake of that game-play....they could always use the Quake engine for 3D awesomeness...I'd love to see the rail gun used in Biblical fights.
Re: (Score:2)
best religion in a video game (Score:2, Funny)
I think that Scientology would a pretty good video game. Scored in thetans you would lambast your opponents into submission so they were 'stuck in an incident' and use a variety of pyscological techniques to intimidate, cajole and threaten anyone who get's in your way.
Contact with any southpark characters or hearing music from Tool kills your character instantly with sardonic irony or an influx of conscious awareness. You can use Tom Cruise missiles and seeing a movie with John Travolta increases your heal
Re: (Score:2)
I think that Scientology would a pretty good video game. Scored in thetans you would lambast your opponents into submission so they were 'stuck in an incident' and use a variety of pyscological techniques to intimidate, cajole and threaten anyone who get's in your way.
I will only play if you get to buy an R2-45 audit kit. [wikipedia.org] It could be like the chaingun in Wolf3d or the BFG from Doom. Exteriorize Thetans right and left!
There's lots of religion in games (Score:2)
As far back as I can remember, religion and gaming go hand in hand. For example, if you prayed in Nethack, you could be gifted with potions of healing. Or if you sacrificed a fresh kill at an altar, you may gain favor with your god. But don't sacrifice your puppy because someone may get upset.
In Fallout 2 I learned that Hubologists are a great source of grenades. They keep to themselves except when they're out warring with the New Reno drug lords. Oh, and they have some strange spokespeople with shiny teet
Thou shalt not kill... already done (Score:3, Insightful)
"I wanted to create a game that had both an entertaining adventure but also hold true to the commandment of 'Thou Shalt Not Kill.'"
Done: I am unaware of any game in which you actually kill people. Plenty of games in which your fictional character kills other fictional characters, but they're videogames, not real life.
It's odd to me that religious types sometimes seem to put more emphasis on morality in fiction than they do in real life. It's not real. Why is this a thing to them? No one has ever demonstrated that violence in videogames or movies actually leads to desensitization for real-life violence, so that's not a valid reason. There's plenty of real-world violence going on, that should be higher priority.
Virtual violence is repugnant to them is what I think it comes down to. That's fine, they should not play games with violence. I think this guy is basically doing the right thing, he's making his own game to fit his tastes, which is great. There aren't enough games like that. I still have to object to the mindset he seems to have: that virtual, in-game violence is somehow morally wrong.
And most in-game violence to me seems pretty justified. Most involve shooting bad guys or bad aliens. GTA allows you to kill innocent bystanders, sure, but so far that's always been a player using free will to do so. The main story does involve murder, but nine times out of ten it's justified. Not great morality there, but pretty good considering it's not real.
Some games actually suceed in making you feel guilty. Fallout 3 had oodles of opportunities to do evil, and plenty of times I ended up feeling pretty guilty.
Having played some of those wisdom tree games, I very much doubt people who are out to make games as a vehicle to promote their own morality have NEARLY the skill it would take to make a game in which a player felt guilty for committing virtual sins, but that is a possibility.
"It was important to do so, and it is not easy. You can defend yourself by stunning Enforcers, or thugs for a very brief time. The goal is the mission, and to avoid direct contact with the enemy as much as possible."
That sounds like a watered down version of mirror's edge, a FPS/FPA* which combines parkour with bad guys with guns. You can stun an enemy to take his gun, then use it on other bad guys for a few shots, but the game really encourages you at most parts to flee and stun rather than get into a shootout. Not for morality reasons though, it's just easier that way.
*I don't want to get into a semantic argument over marketing terms here, you know what I'm talking about.
Ultima IV Quest of the Avatar (Score:2)
Adult Swim Bible Fight (Score:2, Funny)
Tada
I said Tada.
Simple: Target Market (Score:2, Insightful)
Gamers--the people who really fuel the gaming industry (as opposed to the casual gamer) are a very unique market segment. They are, for the most part, people who actually *think*. A religious game targeted at this group would make no sense, as many of the responses to this story have demonstrated. Not only would I say the majority of the "gamer" market is probably atheist, but even the ones who do believe in something are much more likely to be independent in their thinking and what they believe, and not
Populous (Score:2)
Japanese Video Games (Score:3, Informative)
Many, many Japanese video games have pretty strong religious elements in them. I mean Shinto religious elements.
A good example recently is Ju-on, the Grudge [wikipedia.org], which is loosely based on an old Shinto legend [wikipedia.org]. (Variations on the supernatural grudge theme show up in a lot of Japanese cartoons or "anime.")
Even way back in 8-Bit days, the Shinto story that later inspired The Ring [wikipedia.org] was used in a video game called Monster Party. [wikipedia.org]
Oh, and of course, Shinto shrines play a role in Shenmue. Like the shrine where you find the cat, and Ryo will actually do a small devotion at the shrine in the house if you "use" it.
I could go on and on here, but I think it would be a bit shocking for games made in another country to include an alien religion, like Christianity is in Japan. Even Japanese games that include Christianity might not quite get it... it might be used the way Western games use pagan religious elements.
Well anyway, for more information on the Shinto religion, consult your local library!
maybe the problem is (Score:5, Insightful)
http://www.cinemassacre.com/new/?p=3878 [cinemassacre.com]
http://www.cinemassacre.com/new/?p=4069 [cinemassacre.com]
Dragon Age (Score:4, Interesting)
There are issues of religion brought up behind a thin veil in Dragon Age. The different countries of medieval Europe are represented, as well as shoddy treatment of Jews (read: elves.) In addition to this, there is a powerful church organization that some people think is too oppressive. There's even the legacy of the Roman empire and I think the Babylonian captivity is mentioned.
I didn't see Dragon Age in the article, but this is because the game isn't really about these things. They are incidental, and can occupy as much or as little time as you like. Your NPC companions in the game sometimes get into religious debates with each other, depending on your squad selection.
Re: (Score:2)
I mean, after all, it works so well for /., right?