Perth Game Company CEO Takes IP By Night 356
snicho99 writes "A US owned gaming company has fled Australia, leaving unpaid employees and a massive tax bill. Apparently many staff have been working unpaid for months to allow their game to ship and hopefully the company to recover. Interzone's Perth (Western Australia) office was created with the assistance of a state government grant. Last week Interzone's (American) CEO
entered the building at night and removed all the servers and IP so that Interzone could continue production at a new company they have opened in Ireland. The staff caught him on camera. More background here."
Call wikipedia (Score:4, Insightful)
There's a new poster child available for the "ConnivingBastard PrickManager" definition.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Dont' power lines runs reverse in Perth so he ca't use their servers in northern Ireland? If so he has to pay for all the shipment so he's out some spooners, ay mattey?
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
You are thinking of the toilet bowls. Those run backward.
Re:Call wikipedia (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Call wikipedia (Score:5, Funny)
up is down in Australia
Re: (Score:2)
Not totally sure about Ireland, but it's most likely the same as the UK. You get a dongle for the power plug, and plug it in. Power is 240v 50hz, same as here or close enough to not matter.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
This isn't such a big deal.
Here in the US, we've had entire industries do this to their workers. It's called "free-market capitalism" writ large.
The only interesting thing is that Interzone did this to technology workers.
Maybe it's time the techies realized that they are working class and not the professional class many have thought of themselves. And management really is out to fuck you over.
Re:Call wikipedia (Score:5, Funny)
It's refreshing to see an American CEO that actually knows enough about his own company to know what to steal.
Re:Call wikipedia (Score:5, Interesting)
No, it's interesting that the manager showed up and seized the equipment without an opportunity for employees to clear personal data or office possessions. That's pretty unusual.
I've seen small companies closing their doors under different, but similarly awful circumstances. (Power being cut, losing their network feed due to non-payment, unpaid-for equipment being seized, etc.) An important rule for employees facing such troubles is to make sure you have all legal documents in off-site backup. Follow your contracts, but make sure your payment records, stock information, signed contracts, etc. are available offline. And consider whether to back up your work and email offsite or on separate media: I've actually been offered a return consulting job to come back and reconstruct work that I'd done and they'd deleted all source code for, as part of purging my old accounts. Since I;d been there as a corporate partner, and they tried to pay me under the table and not notify my company, I contacted our sales and legal departments. It turned out they hadn't paid six months of outstanding bills, and hiring me behind my company's back would have been much cheaper for them and much more profitable for me, but would have left my employer with much less leverage to get paid.
Fortunately for me, the key work I'd done had actually already been submitted to the relevant open source project's main codelines, so it wasn't lost. And they hadn't noticed the explanations in my contract about what working on GPL tools nad publishing them to that client meant, that they were under GPL. We actually managed to get them to cough up at least some of the backpay, mostly for explaining where to to get the updates.
Re:Call wikipedia (Score:5, Interesting)
I find that attitude patronising in the extreme. Many more than 1% are engineers. Engineering practice is defied by the discipline not some god of engineering and there are many good sets of practices in the industry.
Personally, I design and implement high throughput, low latency server software that deals with mission critical data and/or financial transactions. I consider myself an engineer. Please don't pull out either of the old fallacies that engineers are either personally, legally, responsible for any failing in their work (demonstrably untrue in civil or other engineering firms where the company may be responsible but the individual is not) or that "you're an engineer when the thing you designed kills someone if it goes wrong" because that puts many electronic engineers in the "not engineer" camp and many software guys in the engineer camp.
Is every programmer a "Software Engineer"? I don't know, but I dislike the dismissive attitude.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
(demonstrably untrue in civil or other engineering firms where the company may be responsible but the individual is not)
Uh, what? Dead wrong for civil firms at least, I'm quite certain that a certified Professional Engineer that is found guilty of negligence can both get fined by his state's PE organization and/or lose his license (aka tens of thousands of dollars a year in salary) - here's a source for you. [fbpe.org] IANAL so I wouldn't know the details about being personally sued but I've heard many stories about it happening. From my understanding PE's are COMPLETELY responsible and liable for drawings they sign off on; that's w
Re:Call wikipedia (Score:5, Insightful)
Here are some examples of interviewing questions I made to lend understanding of the distinction I had to make between programmers and engineers:
What is a Fourier (or Laplace) transform?
What is a convolution?
What is an RMS mean compared to an average?
What is a duty cycle?
How do you apply Kirchoff's law to a circuit?
What is the time constant of an RC circuit, and what does it mean?
What is the resonance frequency of an RLC circuit?
What is the nyquist frequency?
What does a PID controller do?
What is a normal force?
What is Colomb's Law?
What conditions are needed to change 2 sandwiched diodes into a transistor?
Explain what a conduction band is.
What is a triple point for a material?
What happens to the orbitals of atoms as they are brought closer together?
How can you make steel conduct heat better, and what are the drawbacks?
What is metal fatigue on the micro or nanoscopic level?
What is Newton's Law of Cooling?
What does the Reynolds number tell you?
What is a Carnot engine and why is it special?
What should the flow velocity be directly on a surface experiencing laminar flow?
Programmers had a higher chance of answering the few questions at the top compared to the bottom, but one thing was painfully clear: those who had learned engineering knew most of the answers, and programmers calling themselves engineers usually knew none. This particular list covers many disciplines, but this list actually covers what you'd need to know as a COMPUTER ENGINEER to pass the fundamentals of engineering exam. Computer Scientists simply do not learn an engineering background to have this kind of knowledge.
As a practicing engineer that has seen programmers severely injure people, blow up objects, and burn circuitry due to their lack of engineering knowledge, the fundamental distinction I draw between an engineer and programmer is that a programmer mostly deals with concepts and ideas entirely created by humans, where engineers are forced to understand and deal with nature itself on an everyday basis.
To clarify this point, I usually liken programmers to mathematicians: Good ones are usually scientists and have to constantly utilize the scientific method to get their job done, and their work is constantly invoked by the world on a regular basis, but generally their work routinely deals with abstractions and hierarchies, and they can do their job quite well without understanding how the physical world works. Indeed, some of the best programmers I've ever known have built amazingly efficient "engines" without ever knowing how the physical components they rely upon are designed or operate on a physical level.
I will grudingly admit that there clearly is a fuzzy line between engineer and programmer, but it falls squarely within the Computer Engineering discipline. Some of us "code" in hardware, where the chip physics is our syntax, making us much more in the engineering camp, and some of us move entirely into the machine/instruction language regime, where an understanding of the computer science of creating an abstract algorithm and less of the physics come more into play, making those of us closer to computer science. By the time you get beyond chips reading machine language, the man-made abstract meaning of the 1s and 0s are what fill your mind entirely, leaving the physics to someone else, and that science of crafting a decently run representation is called programming.
The fact that you could go on to craft entire systems using black boxes that operate as you command means that while your efforts are certainly complex and necessary, it is not engineering.
IEEE (Score:3, Informative)
I'm sure that many people are mis-advertising themselves, but you also have a specific definition of what you consider an "Engineer" to be that is narrower than IEEE definitions (I'm referring to this comment: "it is not engineering").
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Cool, a quiz!
What is a Fourier (or Laplace) transform?
A certain linear transform that maps function points to orthogonal set of functions that self-convolve onto itself and to "zero" with others.
What is a convolution?
For finite signals, draw a signal using another as a "brush", adding up the overlapping parts :)
Alternatively, multiply the corresponding frequencies. The integral definition is a bit backwards with that pesky minus sign.
What is an RMS mean compared to an average?
Something totally different. RMS represents energy. Average just position.
What is a duty cycle?
How do you apply Kirchoff's law to a circuit?
What is the time constant of an RC circuit, and what does it mean?
What is the resonance frequency of an RLC circuit?
No idea.
What is the nyquist frequency?
The maximum width of frequency band that be reproduced
Re:Call wikipedia (Score:5, Informative)
I always think it's hysterical when American engineers get so up in arms about "mere" programmers daring to call themselves engineers. In the UK, the status of Chartered Engineer [wikipedia.org] is given to trained, professional engineers in many disciplines. Each discipline has it's own professional body who are permitted to issue the certification, and guess what? The BCS (British Computer Society) are one of those bodies, and can award CEng status [bcs.org] to suitably qualified people. There's no mention of having to understand Newtonian Mechanics as a prerequisite...
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
So basically you wanted a super engineer that could do everything for you?
At my college there are at least a dozen different types of engineers. What exactly is 'engineering school' anyways? a structural engineer wouldn't know what a PID controller is or how to change 2 sandwiched diodes into a transistor.
I can't tell from your questions if you want a materials engineer or a computer engineer...
I think the problem is that your job description was too general.
Engineers take a real world problem or a variatio
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I whole-heartedly disagree with your definition of an engineer, and what knowledge is required to be called one. You seem to view engineers as someone very well versed in material sciences. For instance, you state that using "black boxes" to design a system precludes you from being an engineer, because these boxes operate as you command. However, just because you can assume more of these boxes than you could in the physical realm does not mean there are no rules to consider, nor does it imply that those rul
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I think that this tendency to call yourself something you're not comes in part from employers' expectations.
I'm seeing people asking for web designers with 2-year degrees and multi-year experience in Twitter (seriously, I've seen it) to maintain a virtually static page. I can imagine that if they wanted a chemist, they'd require a Nobel Prize.
I do (or did) Mac applications. No school teaches that except Apple. I learned by slogging through Pascal, C and C++, and by reading every volume of Inside Macintosh,
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't know why you were modded down for that, it's exactly right. It's not exactly bad news either: we own our own means of production (both soft and hardware) and have access to the marketplace. Basically the first time in history this has happened since medieval peasants were able to augment their income by producing handicrafts on their own looms. Ideologies have been formed and revolutions fought to put the means of production back into the hands of the people and here we are in that very position. Peop
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps not, but he almost certainly would have hidden behind the government's apron by incorporating in order to keep his employees from holding him personally liable, even when his actions resulted in a loss for them.
It's laughable when people talk about "capitalism" but then still demand the government protect them from the consequences of their own bad decisions.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You sound like you're ready to be in management.
Re:Call wikipedia (Score:5, Interesting)
CEOs are better people than we are (Score:5, Funny)
A CEO may pay what His he wishes to His employees and take what He wants.
By His accumulation wealth, a CEO has demonstrated His worldly talent and divine favor. Far be it for us to criticize His actions: are we yet men, while He has a golden MBA? While we merely use our power of Speech, does the CEO not expand the language with outflowing of His prodigious mind? Does that not giveth unto him wisdom we know not, and authority we dare not assert?
We should open our hearts to the CEO. We shall work for Him all our waking hours and offer unto him our wives and daughters for His amusement: for we should be honored to have a radiant Being in our lives as the prime-most consideration.
Should we Fail, we deserve whatever punishment the CEO shall mete out for He, as he so frequently reminds us, is infallible. If a CEO's Company should fail, it is our fault for being indolent, and we shall bear that around our necks. All the remaining resources of a failed Company will go to its CEO as compensation for even attempting to deal with filty being like ourselves. Amen.
Re:CEOs are better people than we are (Score:5, Funny)
You can talk like that when we nail a CEO to a cross.
Re:CEOs are better people than we are (Score:4, Insightful)
Why stop at one?
Internet hate campaign (Score:3, Insightful)
This is not one of those times... Take it away, internet...
What the... (Score:2)
Is this sort of thing legal?
Oh wait. Yeah, I guess not.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I mean, this is a CEO we're talking about. Those guys normally work 9-5, officially, on paper, and in practice this turns into more like 10-4, except on days when they're out of the office for "meetings" with other CEOs on the golf course.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I can tell you personally that the large company CEOs don't work "10-4" - more like 24x7.... the job is their life.
So much so that I know one that has a Plasma in his staff meeting room for when he's in on weekends to watch while working because he's ALWAYS at work.
Sounds to me like this "CEO" is just someone who's also a con-man.
There is much more to this than the Summary states (Score:5, Informative)
The firm that provides the middleware (BigWorld) based in Sydney, provided a server engineer (contracted by Mike to clear out the IP assets from the server.)
The Interzone employees have been fantastic, in collecting evidence, and staying together to fight for what they are due.
This is not the first time this has occured in Australia, similar shit has happened in the last year with firms Transmission, and Fuzzyeyes. Video games, one of the last places for cow-boy businessmen.
For people who would like to read more on this, check these links:
http://www.tsumea.com/australasia/australia/news/120210/interzone-games-perth-closes-staff-locked-out [tsumea.com]
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/02/wa-dev-interzone-games-close-to-liquidation/ [kotaku.com.au]
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/02/interzone-ceo-marty-brickey-responds/ [kotaku.com.au]
And this video where the employees confront one of the directors http://vimeo.com/9574704 [vimeo.com]
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This is not the first time this has occurred in Australia, similar shit has happened in the last year with firms Transmission, and Fuzzyeyes. Video games, one of the last places for cow-boy businessmen.
Actually, I belief this is a misrepresentation... I would argue that these are not "Cow-Boy Businessmen", but "Cow-Dung Businessmen". These fecal administrators, give scum of the earth a bad name. If there was any justice, they'd be plowed into a field so as to provide their only possible positive contribu
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
So how did it turn out at those other firms?
Trading while insolvent. (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
ASIC were fully aware what was going on. I'm afriad to tell you as an Australian citizen who BEGGED ASIC to take action, that ASIC are a bunch of pussies and toothless tigers.
John Howard and the former Liberal Government watered down ASIC's powers to the point that they are nothing more than a wasteful public entity paying lip service - they only care about the "big fish" that they cannot ignore (due to press coverage), and as recent media coverage over the last six months has shown, they can't even catch p
Well, what do you know... (Score:2)
Australia has an extradition agreement [comlaw.gov.au] with the U.S.
The offences that are extraditable include:
11. Robbery.
12. Burglary; housebreaking or any similar offence.
13. Larceny.
14. Embezzlement.
15. Obtaining any property, money or valuable securities by false pretences or other form of deception.
I suspect this will not end well.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
That'll come in useful - if he ever moves there or Ireland gets admitted to the Union.
What? (Score:4, Funny)
Last week Interzone's (American) CEO entered the building at night and removed all the servers and IP so that Interzone could continue production at a new company they have opened in Ireland. The staff caught him on camera.
As much as I think that Mike Turner is a total scumbag, the linked video doesn't actually show him being caught in the act of removing anything. It does show him to be consistently wearing those crappy white iPod/iPhone earbuds - but while that probably should be a crime, it isn't currently on the books.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The FULL video shows him exiting Interzone Perth Offices at around the same time a Police report was filed by employees claiming that there was someone in their building illegally, and this pattern was repeated over several days. The only way that he got away with this was by conitinuing to provide the Police with phony documentation, and quite probably by bribing the building manager of the office, who provided the Police with ammunition to keep employees off the property. It's worth noting that the past T
disgusting ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Nice! (Score:2)
Hard Luck (Score:5, Insightful)
Hard luck there for all the people who just got scammed by a run of the mill business asshole. My theory is that they are all lying assholes, each and every one of them, and if you keep that in mind you'll find your dealings with them go much better. Just remind yourself as they speak that every word is carefully selected to make them richer.
Big tip - the day you find your pay hasn't gone into your account is the day you hit jobsearch.com or call your agent and let them know you're looking for paid work.
The business's responsibility is to ensure there is enough cash set aside against bad luck/planning/weather and enough cash flow coming through to ensure projects get completed. It's *their* responsibility, not yours...you write code, or run tests, answer the phones. If they've f*ed up enough to not have the money to even pay the people who write the product, then you have to wonder how else they are screwing up.
Re:Hard Luck (Score:5, Informative)
It's sad that these folks needed to learn this the hard way, but it's important to know that you need to get the hell out of a business that can't meet payroll. Start looking for a new job right away, and make sure to file a claim to the labor relations organization for that jurisdiction if you don't get your back pay in a timely manner. Paying your employees is a top priority and a legal obligation for any business, whether or not they are for-profit or non-profit. (Sad, but I have a friend who got stiffed by a church of all places)
If a company don't have the funds available to pay it's people, they're already screwed. It's only a matter of time before they either close up shop or their creditors shut the place down at that point.
Tough titties? (Score:3, Insightful)
I applied for a job there once... (Score:2)
I applied for a job there once. I am glad I didn't end up with it otherwise there is a good chance I may have ended up in all this mess.
"takes" (Score:2)
Well, if hes the CEO, its legally his stuff. The employees work for the company and they don't normally have ownership rights of their work. Happens all the time when companies go under and restructure
Now, bailing out on their salaries, that's uncool and something to get upset over. ( but it also happens when companies go out of business...)
in the us you can go to jail for workers go unpaid (Score:2)
In the us you can go to jail for having your workers go unpaid and the IRS will also hunt your down for the unpaid tax.
This CEO needs to do some HARD TIME and not that easy lockup they have in australia.
legal (Score:3, Interesting)
This could be mostly legal, the servers may have always been owned by the parent company and leased back to the Australian subsidiary. The IP very likely was also never owned by the Australian firm. If the subsidiary did hold assets I expect the parent company had security over them, so if they had loaned the subsidiary money then in the event of being wound up they take control of the assets. Lying to creditors/employees on the other hand, well there's a mess there but it's probably wrongful trading etc on the part of the subsidiary's directors while the parent's may or may not have known.
It will be up to the administrator to find out if there is anything to be done, and the employees, in their position as creditors, should be applying their pressure on him. The company may have knowingly traded whilst insolvent in which case the directors may be charged with wrongful trading, and potentially be personally liable for debts. The nature of the relationship with the parent company and related transactions may also offer some scope - it's not unheard of for courts to lift the veil and treat parent & subsidiary undertakings as one entity. Furthermore he may well be able to show the parent acted as a shadow director. There is room for some optimism here for two reasons, firstly a "million dollar tax bill" implies profits (though it may be tax on salaries that hasn't been paid over). Secondly the government grant should have all sorts of covenants, you have to be an utterly incompetent complete idiot to grant or loan money to any subsidiary and not enforce appropriate covenants and security over the parent company.
While I sympathise with the employees, there were lots of things they could have done, and given the amounts they should have taken some advice. Sure, in start-ups it's not uncommon for employees to give some leeway and "muck in". But this is a subsidiary! Why do this if there is a parent with money? Secondly, if you're a creditor, act like one. Take a look at the accounts, check for assets and file security over them. Negotiate for some equity - if they had just 20% between them minority protections kick in. An accountant probably would have given them this advice for free if they suggested that some audit fees might be coming their way later on.
GEERS (all is not lost) (Score:3, Interesting)
I sympathise with the employees. I went through a similar situation in 2007.
GEERS is your friend*, and the liquidator will help you with the information needed to complete your GEERS application. Unfortunately GEERS doesn't cover unpaid super and most companies in these circumstances just fail to pay super and accumulate fines for late super payments rather than the actual amount.
As the law currently stands it very simple for dodgy CEO's to thieve the IP and take operations overseas. The ATO and ASIC are either too slow, bogged down with redtape or just plain toothless.
The sad fact is CEO's/directors don't even need to move overseas. All you need to do is have a parent company overseas that the IP is assigned to. The local company then operates on the smell of an oily rag, runs up liabilities and even gets government RD grants/tax rebates. When creditors/employees come to collect, there's nothing, but a bit of office equipment and furniture. It's even possible to start a new company and then buy the salvaged office assets of the previous company and even trade from the very same office and the ATO and ASIC don't even batter an eye lid.
*As for GEERS and the liquidator, chase them ruthlessly. The department/program is biased to the liquidators findings. If there's incomplete, incorrect or absent employee entitlement records (as is often the case with poorly run companies), GEERS will not pay you a cent, if the liquidator can't provide support or evidence of he amounts. (I found out the hard way and lost 2 years AL)
All the best with your fight.
They moved to Ireland? Bad move. (Score:3, Informative)
The management moved to Ireland? That's a bad place to go bankrupt, [dilloneustace.ie] and a good place to sue creditors. Ireland still has bankruptcy law left over from the days when English landlords ran the country. Creditors can put a company or an individual into involuntary bankruptcy. There's nothing like "debtor in possession" bankruptcy (US "Chapter 11") in Ireland. Personal bankruptcy? The debtor may retain "such articles of clothing, household furniture, bedding, tools and equipment of his trade or profession or other necessities for himself, his wife, his children, and other dependent relatives living with him, as he may select, not exceeding in value EUR 3,175."
It gets worse. Bankruptcies put individuals on a public blacklist. Officers of companies that go bankrupt can't be officers of a company again. Individuals can't get credit of more than EUR 630.
The employees need to get a judgment in Australia against the CEO, which shouldn't be hard since he fled the country with unpaid employees. Then hire an aggressive collection agency in Dublin. [eircollect.com] ("100% success rate for many clients. No collection, no fee.") There are international collection agencies, such as Global Credit Solutions, with branches in 80 countries. They have offices in both Australia and Ireland.
Re: (Score:2)
Remember that it's not so bad to leave a country to do business elsewhere. When I worked in Naples, I would not get almost any pay. Yes, I was a kid and I was supposed to work for my father, but I wanted something off from it. If it doesn't work like you want to, you go somewhere where it does.
The fact that he's moving is not the problem. The problem is that his staff have been working unpaid in order for the company to recover.
Actually I'm asking slashdot. How I am supposed to fight the cheapo crappy pizza places when I offer quality pizzas? Does it matter to keep quality? What you love about pizza?
I love my pizzas to be as cheap as possible.
Re:Other countries are interesting (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see what the problem is: If they worked unpaid by choice, then they're foolish, in my not so humble opinion, and here's why: Having been cheated before, I'd not trust even family or friends when it comes to my financial future, and certainly not an employer.
Work for free? Sorry, been there, done that, much in the same way as these people: I trusted the company's owner, believed him when he said that he'd reward me and the rest of us, if we were only patient and worked hard. It would all work out in the end, you see, and everyone would end up wealthy.
Yeah, right. The only person that ended up wealthy was him - he sold the company, and the people that had worked to build it up got nothing, and had no recourse, as we had nothing in writing.
As the saying goes: "Once burned, twice shy". I'm older now, and considerably more cynical, and I don't work for any employer for free, ever. The only thing that we have is our lives, and we cannot know how much time we have: Giving it away to an employer without recompense is foolish at best, because they never remember the sacrifices you made for them, and you can never get that time back.
Always keep that in mind when dealing with an employer: You're trading your life in exchange for money. Make sure that it's worth it to you, don't ever be surprised when someone tries to cheat you and don't let them do so.
Re:Other countries are interesting (Score:5, Funny)
I believe the saying you're looking for is:
Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.
- Former President Bush [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2)
I suggest an Ask Slashdot to get a wider array of response... as is, this is offtopic.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
look at his name - he's a pizza themed troll.
I don't think he's a troll... I just think that he doesn't speak English natively, and doesn't realize this is not the topic branch to discuss it.
It's not really worth labeling everyone causing trouble as a "troll"... because some people just don't know any better.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Other countries are interesting (Score:5, Funny)
Has anyone else noticed the picture of Mike Turner with the Sphinx in the background halfway down the third page [rockethands.com] linked to in TFS? The caption below it is surely a little redundant...
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
> The problem is that his staff have been working unpaid in order for the company to recover.
But that's retarded. They had little reason to do that other than some profoundly misplaced loyalty - they're apparently employees not company partners? Of course I may not be getting the full story, but working for someone without being paid and without keeping the result of your work (i.e. open source, in fact the whole reason open source makes economic sense is because you keep the fruits of your labor and other people also having copies doesn't diminish that) is dumb.
Well, working for free does make sense if you expect to get the money later. Basically they've given the company a loan. It turned out the company owner was not credit-worthy, though.
Re: (Score:2)
To all employees of that company:
I have managed with great efforts to be seizing the funds of your CEO and sold off his IP, resulting in $40,000,000 of recovered funds. Per Australian Tax code 419, unpaid employees may receive such funds.
Please do forward $100 processing fee to file a claim for your back wages.
Seriously, those guys should have known better.
Re:Other countries are interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
But that's retarded. They had little reason to do that other than some profoundly misplaced loyalty
The only reason the loyalty was misplaced was because the CEO screwed them. Had he honored their commitment and worked as hard as possible to save the company and then paid them back dues + bonus/stock their loyalty would have been dead on. Unfortunately they worked for a douchebag. I'm the first person to have no loyalty for a large mega corp but small shops require it. We can't function without the employees giving a damn about the company and the company can't function without giving a damn about their employees.
Loyalty is paid for in cash. (Score:2)
Always has been, always will be. You need to take a look at history.
The worst case recently though are all the soldiers sent off to Iraq to save America from Weapons of Mass Destruction. Shoulda joined Blackwater, not the army.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And a man's honor should know no geographic bounds, especially in this day and age. I would expect anyone considering business with this man (including anyone in Ireland, or elsewhere) to take heed and note that he is not trustworthy. I would also encourage such former employees to make the facts of the case known wide and far, as far as is possible without criminal libel or slander.
Re:Other countries are interesting (Score:4, Insightful)
Game companies often hire people for whom that is their first job. They have not yet learned that companies are psychopathic abusers, and that your only loyalty is to yourself and your colleagues. Any kindness you offer to the company as such - working for no pay for instance - will never be returned by them.
Re:Other countries are interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
Which do you choose? The second option is a waste of time. The first is a guaranteed loss. The third is a gamble, where you potentially have a bigger loss, but potentially have a gain. I know people working for small businesses who have received nice bonuses for choosing option 3, and others who have had the company fold owing them back pay. If you don't have another job lined up to start immediately, it's often a good idea to try to keep the company afloat while you look for other employment as a backup.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Other countries are interesting (Score:5, Informative)
Remember that it's not so bad to leave a country to do business elsewhere. When I worked in Naples, I would not get almost any pay. Yes, I was a kid and I was supposed to work for my father, but I wanted something off from it. If it doesn't work like you want to, you go somewhere where it does.
It IS so bad when you use a bunch of legal dodgery to take ownership of the IP while evading the millions of dollars of debt that you owe to the staff. It IS bad when you break a whole bunch of laws to get that IP out of the country, so you can start another studio in another country without actually paying what you owe to any of your employees. And (personal conjecture here) it IS bad when you will most likely you will do exactly the same to the new studio.
Disclaimer: IAAFIZE. I am a former IZ employee.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Wait: are we talking about a game company, or SCO?
Oh, yes. Both.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Er I'm assuming this is a troll, but just in case anyone else doesn't realise, Australia has a reasonable number of ethnically east Asian people. As in >10% of the population (and closer to >20% in some urban areas).
Australia isn't technically in Asia, but its geographic proximity definitely affects the makeup of the population. Far more Asians per capita here than in the US, for instance.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
wikipedia Australia, look at the map, wikipedia Asia, look at the map. They are different continents
We may have a ridiculous amount of asian immigrants that still speak chinese/japanese after they get here, but that still does not make us a part of asia.
Re:Bunch of Asian Employees ? (Score:5, Informative)
We actually have very few Japanese immigrants but they do love spending their holidays and money here, particularly in Queensland where the local economy is heavily dependent on tourisim.
The Japanese are golf mad and a golf trip to Oz to play on a real golf course is cheaper than a golf club membership in Tokyo to play on a multi story driving range. On the whole they are very well mannered guests in our country and tend to stick to organised tour groups because of the language barrier.
Also every chineese immigrant I have ever met speaks english, it's a requirement to get into the country unless you come in as a refugee and we do not recognise people from China as refugees.
As you probably know there is a minority racist element in our population who idolise people such as Pauline Hanson [wikipedia.org]. Hanson is ironically now emmigrating to the UK after basically being ridiculed and laughed out of politics by the rest of us. I think she is in for a shock when she finds out how many second and third generation "brown people" are wandering around the UK.
For the non-Aussie readers, members of Hansen's minority are generally refered to as "yobbos", which when translated into American means "rednecks".
Re:Bunch of Asian Employees ? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know the Australian systems you describe but your summary makes them sound a lot like Affirmative Action here in the US. This is a tough question. There is no question that AA is prejudice and, depending on implementation, racist. However, as it is there to correct a past wrong, the hard part is deciding when it is still or no longer needed. We are struggling with this question still in the US, as evidence by the recent University of Michigan case on admissions.
One major issue here is whether the "need" for AA is perceived to be "over" in some areas (such as the North) but the opposite in others (like the South)... I waffle a bit on this issue myself. I'd personally prefer no law or regulation mentioning race (thus invalidating AA) but that is based on the assumption that racism and inequality is no longer an issue... which is only true in some places.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Ideologically I'm also not in favour of legislation based on race but pragmatically the aboriginals have not benifited from the so called "lucky country". Unti
Re: (Score:2)
I don't consider australia a part of asia myself, but considering that new zealanders are practically asian/pacific islanders and are basically your neighbors, it's understandable where they infer this.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Australasia (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
WTF are you smoking? If it's not already illegal it should be.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Depending on which list of continents you go by, there are a lot of variations. The geographers, geologists, and sociologists can't seem to agree on a single definition, so it can be a bit confusing. How many continents are there, anyway? Five? Six? Seven? More?
For instance, there are variously considered to be one, two, or three continents in the western hemisphere. Two is the most common figure, but it's not universal.
Europe may or may not be part of the same continen
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And then the cheque bounces.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
A previous irrelevant quote (Score:5, Insightful)
Er, no, RTFS - he removed the servers.
This is the one time that referring to "IP theft" actually makes sense. He stole it, removing the original rather than duplicating.
Do people who commit piracy do so by going to the record companies at night, sneaking in, and removing their CDs?
Anyhow, where does anyone accuse him of stealing? Or are you just making up a straw man?
Re: (Score:2)
Look at the youtube video [youtube.com]. It specifically alleges file copying, and does not mention machine theft at all. Why would you need to take servers when all you would need to do is stick the source files on a thumb drive?
There seems to be conflicting stories about the server theft.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, the way I see it, the quote is completely right, even in this case.
The "IP" is irrelevant. The employees are owed for the time they worked, and nothing more. Even if you believe there is such a thing as "IP", the employees agreed it belongs to the company when they signed the contract, so it can't be "stolen" from them.
Having the CEO fire everybody and have another team continue development would have been perfectly legal. The only illegal thing is not paying the previous employees all they were o
Re: (Score:2)
The only illegal thing is not paying the previous employees and the Australian Government all they were owed.
TFTFY.
Re: (Score:2)
... but if what the programmers and designers make is not a creative work but simply a work-for-hire industry product, how can copyright laws apply? They are there to protect artists and creators, not industry corporations.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm a programmer and what I do is work for hire. You pay me X/hour, I spend that time solving the problem you have.
Usually that hour is spent writing code, but sometimes that hour is spent on research that results in "Yes, we could do this, and here's how", or "No, it's not going to work for this reason".
What happens to what I wrote doesn't really matter to me, so long I got paid for the time.
I still think it's a creative endeavour anyway, in the same way that a decorator being paid for "come here and tell
Re: (Score:2)
How is it not about the artist if transferring those rights is what artist wants?
Re: (Score:2)
Because then the creation can get used against the artist, and I can't see how would that be something the artist wants. Take for instance the ridiculousness of "Prince" being a trademark not owned by Prince, and him being denied use of it, despite it being his real name.
Also, generally there's not a negotiation happening on equal terms. The huge conglomerate has an advantage over the artist, so I think they should be restricted in what they can ask. There's a reason why you can't enslave yourself, or sell
Re: (Score:2)
Only if the artist agrees to a contract that allows for such things. Why do that?
Take for instance the ridiculousness of "Prince" being a trademark not owned by Prince, and him being denied use of it, despite it being his real name.
A great example of a poorly structured business relationship. That's not his full, legal name. It's his brand, just like a band name. He agreed to take a pile of cash in exchange for allowing a publishing company to operate tha
Re:Not nice. (Score:4, Insightful)
The employees are the last in line when it comes to the creditors of a defunct company, once the taxman and banks have split up what's left the employees will get fuck all. The best the employees can hope for is seeing the prick behind bars which IMHO is a very likely outcome.
Re:Not nice. (Score:5, Informative)
Actually....
First is the employees super funds, then taxes, then wages, then everyone else they owe money to.
The employees are covered for loss of wages by the GEERS scheme, which they can submit and get their: Lost wages; Lost holiday pay; Redundancy payout (according to industry standards or their contract, and if contract its subject to evaluation).
According to Australian law anyway :)
Re:Not nice. (Score:5, Interesting)
Thanks for the education.
Re: (Score:2)
"He will wake up one day in the very near future to find his bank accounts frozen."
I hope they don't get around to this until after the game has been sold and makes a few million currency, so there is actually something for the scammers to lose, and for the tax office, employees and creditors to be compensated with. Of course, there's no guarantee the game will be bought by anyone or make any money, but if they wait to sieze assets and arrest these guys, and the game doesn't make any revenue, well, the cred
Wanna bet? (Score:2)
>>However, I can't imagine any company would get away with not paying staff for months.
Talk to the guys who worked for Be...
--bornagainpenguin