Accidental Wii Suicide 1343
Paul Taylor noted a story that I would have thought to be an April Fool's Day joke a few weeks from now, which makes it only seem more tragic. A 3-year-old shot herself with a gun after mistaking it for a Wii controller.
Shot herself, you mean (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Suicide? (Score:3, Informative)
RTFA
It was an obscure 3rd party controller from overseas that, according to the article, Nintendo had no idea existed. The sheriff's office could barely track it down on the web it was so obscure.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
And I agree 100% that the father should have the book thrown at him. There's no excuse for an accident like this...
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
Not to mention the fact that if guns are in the household (even if locked up) the kids need to be educated about them.
That requires parenting, and that's far too much work for most people it seems. They would rather use a scapegoat like the Wii, violent videogames, and music instead of taking responsibility for their actions.
It's a horrible situation where someone innocent lost their life, but it's even worse when justice isn't made.
The law should have gray areas, but there's nothing that should keep this man from facing some charge, even if it is to remove his second amendment rights.
HER-self (Score:2, Informative)
the toddler in TFA is a referd to as shooting herself, not himself...
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:3, Informative)
However, in this case the *stepfather* left a gun around that killed a child that wasn't his. He may or may not be suffering, and it should be investigated.
Read the article. Normally the gun was kept in a locked place away from reach by the children. He took the gun out because he thought he heard an intruder. After investigating, he let the gun on the table and didn't put it away immediately.
The weapon should have never left his possession, and he should have at least disengaged the hammer/unloaded it. Owning a weapon is a huge responsibility and just a small amount of negligence can lead to situations like this.
Re:Suicide? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I wonder... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm quite aware of that, but the .380 caliber Smith & Wesson that (according to TFA) the child shot herself with certainly does.
Re:How did a 3-year old pull the trigger? (Score:5, Informative)
It is pretty suspicious to me though that the article says the mother was just 3 feet away. How can one be 3 feet away from both a 3 year old and a loaded pistol and not realize it? And even worse, what in the hell was the stepfather thinking placing a loaded weapon on a table with children in the house? My gun is never out of my control unless it's locked up in it's safe. As with many other posters, this was gross negligence on their part. I'm not sure I agree with a call for criminal charges though as he's got to live with it for the rest of his life knowing his negligence killed that little girl.
Re:How did a 3-year old pull the trigger? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
Just read the story (Score:5, Informative)
The dad was an idiot, though. I don't see him recovering. As for it being accidental? I couldn't speculate, but to all of the people saying that a kid couldn't pull the trigger... Kids have two hands, remember?
Re:How did a 3-year old pull the trigger? (Score:3, Informative)
I shot my friend's .380 a few weeks ago: a 3-year old has more than enough strength to squeeze the trigger.
Re:How did a 3-year old pull the trigger? (Score:4, Informative)
Dude. A .380 is a light pistol. I doubt a toddler could chamber a round, but picking one up and pulling the trigger are well within their capabilities.
Think before you speak (Score:2, Informative)
Search for child access prevention in the page [gunslot.com]
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Suicide? (Score:3, Informative)
Just to be pedantic. There are safeties. They are just not "manual" safeties. There is a safety that disconnects the sear from the firing pin when the slide travels back a certain amount. There is a safety that blocks the firing pin from hitting the round in the chamber unless the trigger is depressed a certain amount. Sure, neither of these prevent a round from going off when the trigger is pulled, but they do prevent a dangerous firing of the weapon (A firing without the slide fully closed, or a discharge when the gun is dropped). BUT, I also disagree with the argument that a DAO gun can't be easily fired by a 3 year-old. Sure, some DAO's have significant trigger pull weights (some as high as 10 lbs or so, like my Kahr that has an 8lbs pull). But some are nearly as "easy" as a single action (I've seen pulls as low as 3lbs for a DAO, where a typical "hair trigger" SA would be around 1 to 2 lbs). It all depends on the firearm. I had a Taurus DAO that had a 3 lbs trigger pull. But the difference, is it had 2 manual safeties (one traditional lever, and a "key" that locked the slide and hammer from moving)...
Re:Soft trigger, bad safety. (Score:3, Informative)
You can modify guns to reduce the trigger pull to nearly nothing.
Not DAO pistols like S&W's .380.
Yes, metal guns are noticeably heavy
The S&W Sigma 380 weighs 14 oz. I think that's the unloaded weight, but five .380 rounds don't add a whole lot.
It's the parent's fault no matter how you look at it, but "never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity," right?
No argument there.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:3, Informative)
Are you a parent?
I am.
There's absolutely NOTHING they could do to the guy that would be worse than losing a child.
I don't give a fuck about how bad he feels. He needs to be prevented from doing the same shit again.
He's an idiot who is guilty of criminal negligence causing death. Just because he "feels bad" doesn't mean he'll learn. You can't fix stupid.
I wouldn't be surprised if he winds up comitting suicide intentionally, with the same gun.
Speaking as someone who has suffered with depression and attempted suicide myself, I don't think this would be a bad thing - at least then he won't be able to endanger anyone else.
I'd also betting his marriage is over.
Then you didn't read the article. The child's mother defended him. (And it's important to note that it was *her* daughter, not his - he was the child's stepfather.)
Yes, charges of child endangerment could be filed, but no punishment is going to change anything
You could not be more wrong. If we was prosecuted and convicted, he would lose the right to carry or possess a firearm. That would definitely change something - the chance that this might happen again.
no punishment that state can inflict will come close to what he's done to himself.
It's not about punishment, it's about prevention. The state has a chance to prevent this moron from endangering any other children in the same way. It outrages me that they're not taking it.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
You can adjust the trigger resistance. It's generally inadvisable to lower the resistance past a certain point, because it makes it more likely it will go off from bumping against things, but I think it's likely enough that a guy who leaves a gun out with his toddler around is liable to have the trigger resistance questionably (if not illegally) low.
I am by no means an expert, but I live in a mother-in-law apt in the back yard of a gun lover.
Re:Suicide? (Score:3, Informative)
So you want to punish him for what some other completely unrelated people _might_ do?
Yeah....that sounds like a country I want to live in......
If you're in the US, it's a country you DO live in.
Right or wrong, this guy is fucked. The Mrs. Lovejoys will see to that.
Re:Suicide? (Score:1, Informative)
The .380 Sigma is a striker-fired gun. Long, heavy 8 to 10 pound trigger pull. I'd be surprised if a three-year old could do it, even using both hands. Even if the poor kid shot herself, the stepfather is still responsible for leaving it lying around.
Re:Suicide? (Score:3, Informative)
However, in nearly all cases, the purpose of putting someone in prison is to rehabilitate the convicted criminal so (s)he can become a productive member of society again and not do the same (or similar) bad thing again.
Oh really? Where's that? Where I live (UK) and where most of this site's users reside (USA) the primary purpose of prison is to punish. Then there's the desire to keep criminals away from law-abiding society. Once all that's been addressed, the courts and gaolers may give a thought to rehabilitation.
Re:Suicide? (Score:3, Informative)
I had to look it up too. I've never seen such a thing. Apparently it's called a "Wii Auto Pistol" and it's a 3rd-party attachment. You put the Wiimote in, and it makes it look somewhat gun-like. I suppose this lets you feel like you're actually inside CoD or RE4.
Nevertheless, this had nothing to do with a Wii. This was a careless gun owner who left a loaded handgun where a toddler could reach it. I've got kids this age. You don't leave cutlery or crayons out where they can reach it. They don't have any intent or understanding of consequences at that age. Sadly, it appears that the stepfather doesn't either.
Re:Suicide? (Score:2, Informative)
Illegal search and seizure. How about a no-knock warrant served on the wrong address where they come in shooting? Just the knowledge that the population is armed so the government has to be wary of the population proves that civilian firearm ownership is a deterrent to overstepping.
Up where I live, firearms are good for keeping the wildlife at bay.
Re:Suicide? (Score:2, Informative)
ANYONE that knows anything about firearms already knows that you store unloaded, with a trigger lock or in a locked box and with the safety on.
Unless you're the NRA [nraila.org].
Just wanted to point a link to the local paper. (Score:1, Informative)
Here are a couple of links to the local newspaper that broke the story. Interestingly, they're far less sensationalist than the national coverage.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100309/NEWS01/3090354/Wilson-County-child-s-shooting-death-blamed-on-gun-Wii-mix-up
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100308/NEWS03/100308009/Accidental+shooting+kills+Wilson+County+child
Re:Suicide? (Score:2, Informative)
The gun was a smith and wesson .380 automatic. The child is more than capable to playing with it and turning off the safety, remember they are designed to flicked off with the push of a thumb. As for pointing it at herself, depending on the trigger pull she may have had a hard time pulling the trigger on it or even just lifting it (a fully loaded pistol is kind of heavy to a toddler) and was fumbling and turned it on herself, this is a 3 year old child, it isn't like she put it against her head and pulled the trigger with one hand.
BTW, people could bother to read the article, most of the questions in the first few responses show that few did, it was a 2-page article that answered a lot of questions posed. Also, think just a little bit, yes it is horrible this happened but if you have kids, I do not care who you are, you are not at your top form 100% of the time. Accidents happen and sometimes they are horrifying and terrible accidents that end in death.
Oh and how exactly does one teach a 3 year old about the dangers of firearms when they are still working on the basics of action and consequence as well as physical coordination? She can't pick up an open top cup and not spill anything from it reliably, but take her out and shoot something with it and she'll understand the concepts of death, danger and damage...
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Informative)
Trigger pull on otc firearms is high enough that your average small child won't be firing it.
Really? Are you sure about that? I own several guns, and have shot several more. None, AFAIK, have been modified after purchase; the trigger pull is as it was set at the factory. Some of them have trigger pulls that require a decent pull; others have very, very light trigger pulls -- such that yes, a small child could shoot them. I have a 9mm that has a rather hefty trigger pull if it is not already cocked, but when shot single-action, has a relatively light trigger pull. I now own my dad's old .22 rifle that he used to let me shoot when I was about three (with his help, of course). The lightest of the bunch is my .300 Win-Mag rifle, which would probably fire if you sneezed near it.
And yes, for the record, I keep them locked so my daughter can't get to any of them.
Re:Suicide? (Score:5, Informative)
You are stupid. and need to not be allowed to have a gun.
unless you live in cracktown and have a home full of crack AND a sign outside advertising the crack is inside you will NOT get a suprise stampede that you need to gun down instantly. You will have a LOT of warning before you need to pull a trigger to defend yourself. Even in a situation where you have them at your door trying to kick it in you have time to grab the clip, slap it in and cock the gun and have time to take a deep breath and get in a kneeling position to fire more accurately.
only complete idiots think they must be loaded, and ready to protect themselves. Even the military in a war zone will kick your ass if you go walking around with a gun ready to fire and you are not in an active mission where you are kicking down a door. at minimum you need the safety on even in a HOT zone on guard.
Re:Suicide? (Score:3, Informative)
The article said that it was a S&W 380. I don't know that specific weapon, but I know most of the 380's are pretty small weapons with pretty easy triggers. Kids can be stronger than you think. My 3 year old can squeeze my hand harder than it would take to fire most of my weapons. Not that she gets to shoot any. She's been taught not to play with anything that looks like a gun. When she's older, she will be taught proper handling and use. Until then, she knows not to play with them, just like she isn't suppose to touch the stove or play with knives.
I was first introduced to weapon handling when I was about 8. Before that, they were kept well out of reach. Even after that until I was 16, they were kept away from me, except when we were going to the shooting range.
Re:Suicide? (Score:2, Informative)
"What I want to know is why the safety wasn't set on the gun. "
What do you define as a "safety"? In the case of many Glocks, and at least the S&W Sigma line (which you could get in .380), the safety IS the trigger.
There's a sort of double trigger employed. As you pull the trigger part way, it releases the safety, and as you finish pulling the trigger, the weapon discharges.
The "safety" aspect here is to prevent accidental discharge through dropping, or hitting, or any number of things OTHER THAN ACTUALLY PULLING THE TRIGGER.
Many places consider this "safer" than something like a 1911, which would be carried "cocked and locked" and thus is more "dangerous" despite having a manual safety switch as well as a grip safety that would've made it quite challenging for a 3 year old to actuate (you have to get your hand around the grip and still have a long enough finger left to reach the trigger at the same time).
The weapon's safety is not what failed here, it's the first safety, which is usually located just above your shoulders, but is absent in some models - and it seems more and more models are missing this key component these days.
Re:What a Tragedy and No Charges? (Score:3, Informative)
Are you a parent? There's absolutely NOTHING they could do to the guy that would be worse than losing a child.
That's not necessarily true. There are parents who abuse, exploit or even kill their own children. I don't think that's what we're dealing with here. The sheer danger to everyone of leaving a loaded firearm where a toddler can get at it argues for plain stupidity and negligence. But we can't conclude anything by extrapolating from how we'd feel.
Re:Suicide? (Score:4, Informative)
I'm sure I must be misunderstanding you. If the safety is engineered such that a 3-year-old child can discharge the weapon in any case, then it's not a safety.
A safety on fire arms are meant to keep the gun from discharging when dropped, de-cocking or while being unloaded. They are not meant to keep kids from discharging fire arms, that is what gun locks and safes are for.
Re:Suicide? (Score:3, Informative)
I have a range a block from my house, and I go there a lot. They have a "cop range" that the local ordinance uses and I have a lot of cop friends, so I shoot on that range a lot, and we've had this conversation and done some tests.
Do any of your cop friends carry without one in the chamber? I don't know any cops that do that.
Modern handguns are very reliable, and they're designed so that it's impossible to fire one without pulling the trigger. With a decent holster to protect the trigger, there is no possibility of a discharge. One thing I recommend to people who are uncomfortable with carrying hot is to carry their sidearm with the hammer/striker cocked on an empty chamber. Carry that way for a few months and each night when you put your gun away, check to see if it is still cocked, or if it has "gone off".
That said, if you're more comfortable carrying "cold", by all means do what makes you comfortable. When it comes to carrying a deadly weapon, there are a lot of very personal choices to be made and you shouldn't let anyone tell you you're wrong. I just wanted to give you some things to think about :)
(I carry an XD9 sub-compact and/or a Ruger LCP. I carry both with chambered rounds and don't have the slightest concern about either going off without the trigger being pulled, and I use good holsters for both).