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Valve Announces Dota 2 128

RulerOf writes "Just over a year after hiring IceFrog, the lead developer of the wildly popular DotA Allstars mod for Warcraft III, and the speculation surrounding Valve's recent trademark filing for the 'DotA' name, Valve has officially announced Dota 2. Gameplay of Dota 2 is being ported 'exactly' from the current DotA Allstars and includes every hero, but vast improvements are being made to the game including VoIP, a coaching system, in-game rewards, and AI that takes over for disconnected players. Lastly, it all runs on top of the Source engine. (GameInformer's website appears to be struggling right now though, as they had an exclusive on this story.)"
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Valve Announces Dota 2

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  • Icefrog (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 14, 2010 @06:00AM (#33891680)

    Seems valve may have known a little more than they let on when they hired Mr frog.

    • Re:Icefrog (Score:5, Informative)

      by The MAZZTer (911996) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {tzzagem}> on Thursday October 14, 2010 @07:10AM (#33891982) Homepage
      Valve's official statement on that is that it is fake.
    • Amusing little story, but no actual proof of no actual wrongdoing as far as i can tell... even the things the blog suggests he's guilty of are barely worth mentioning... he went from one company to another? he might not have legitimate rights to the dota name (like anyone does anyway)?
    • Re:Icefrog (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Rysc (136391) * <> on Thursday October 14, 2010 @07:42AM (#33892150) Homepage Journal

      True or not, I don't care. Icefrog could be an asshole for all I care as long as the result is that DoTA 2 copies DoTA and does not try to change things. DoTA works, changing it damages it (see LoL and to a lesser extent HoN). Sometimes we all dislike icefrog but if he's developing and defending DoTA then no other wrongs he does matter, IMO.

      • by KDR_11k (778916)

        But if DotA2 is identical to DotA, why would you need DotA2?

        • by dreampod (1093343)

          The main idea is that DotA is hamstringed by being built over the (now outdated) Warcraft III engine. Because the engine is developed by a seperate entity and no longer recieves updates it is often difficult to develop new concepts properly and it has begun to look old visually.

          By rebuilding it on a new engine it gives control to allow them to maintain a higher level of visuals and they can modify and expand on the engine to allow possibilities that are blocked by engine limitations.

          Frankly though I don't

          • by Rysc (136391) *

            HoN is like the child of DotA where LoL is the snotty cousin nobody likes. HoN is definitely *NOT* a perfect clone, there are many things that are too different. It's different enough that I can't switch back and forth seamlessly and retain my edge in both. The engine is just very different. They tried to make it close, but close behavior-wise does not cut it. Even though it's not a great engine for dota warcraft 3 does have some rather good things going for it which are difficult to replicate.

      • Sometimes we all dislike icefrog but if he's developing and defending DoTA then no other wrongs he does matter, IMO.

        So basically what you're saying is that the end justifies the means?

        How'd that get insightful? That's like saying "I'd like to make more money, the fact that I'm stealing bank account info doesn't matter."

        No - if Icefrog isn't going to play nicely, he shouldn't be allowed to play. Video games can be as collaberative or co-operative or competitive as the developers wish to be with each other. We don't need these kind of rogues running around screwing things up for everyone.

        • by Rysc (136391) *

          What are you talking about? Let me recap the story so far:

          Person A: "Don't trust IceFrog! He's a jerk and was dishonest about his past history and intentions."
          Me: "As long as he protects DotA I don't care if he's a jerk."
          You: "So the ends justify the means?!"

          I guess if the "ends" are "A good dota experience" and the "means" are "he makes some people dislike him" then I agree...

          • If what he's doing can basically be considered stealing trade secrets - than its more than just "hiding his past history".

            I was drawing your sentence to sound more like

            "As long as he protects DotA I don't care if he's a thief"

            • by Rysc (136391) *

              "Trade secrets"?! What nonsense. DotA has been developed "in the open" as it were since the beginning. If Icefrog agreed to sell whatever rights he has to dota to one party, and then simultaneously sold them to another, then that would be a problem... but otherwise I don't see how there could be an issue. You can't steal your own ideas.

              • You can't steal your own ideas.

                So everything along the way was his idea - is your claim?

                • by Rysc (136391) *

                  Clearly Icefrog was hired for something he knew that not everyone in the community knew, which tends to suggest that it was his own expertise which was being sold, thus his own ideas. Since dota was developed in a fairly open manner almost anyone from the community could have been hired to help with LoL or HoN, but not just anyone was and this implies to me that they hired icefrog for icefrog's ideas, not for the stuff everyone knows about dota.

                  Dota is pretty well known, in and out, by most players. There c

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by PhrostyMcByte (589271)

      Managers and developers at game companies tend to live in a complete disconnect from their community, and sometimes they aren't even big gamers themselves. This leads to some really stupid decisions in gameplay and interface design that most gamers would scream at them for implementing.

      Assuming the blog is truthful, I can only hope that he's being a controlling asshole to prevent these kinds of people from corrupting the gameplay people loved.

  • by cbope (130292) on Thursday October 14, 2010 @06:03AM (#33891698)

    What the hell is a DotA?

    Please, if you are going to use an acronym in a news post, especially one that may be a mod many are not familiar with, follow common courtesy and spell it out the first time it is used.

    I had to click on the link and visit a page with information about a mod for a game I haven't played in YEARS.

    • by TyIzaeL (1203354) on Thursday October 14, 2010 @06:08AM (#33891720)

      What the hell is a DotA?

      It stands for Defense of the Ancients. Basically the game consists of two teams of player-controlled heroes defending their own team's base while attacking the other's.

    • by Kalroth (696782)

      Please, if you encounter new acronyms or new words on the internet, follow common sense and try searching for them. Google is especially helpful in this regard.

      Odds are that if you don't know what "DotA" means, then you wont know what "Defense of the Ancients" means anyways.

    • I'm surprised you got that far.

      Valve announces Dota 2

      "Just over a year after hiring IceFrog, the lead developer of the wildly popular DotA Allstars mod for Warcraft III, and the speculation surrounding Valve's recent trademark filing for the 'DotA' name, Valve has officially announced Dota 2. Gameplay of Dota 2 is being ported 'exactly' from the current DotA Allstars and includes every hero, but vast improvements are being made to the game including VoIP, a coaching system, in-game rewards, and AI that takes over for disconnected players. Lastly, it all runs on top of the Source engine. (GameInformer's website appears to be struggling right now though, as they had an exclusive on this story.)"

      Soulskill, God only knows how you became an editor, but you certainly shouldn't be one much longer.

      Jesus, between kdawson, samzenpus, and Soulskill there doesn't seem to be anyone who knows what the they're meant to be doing as editors anymore. kdawson takes hyperbole and states it as solid fact, samzenpus seems to have had his account hijacked by kdaweson, and Soulskill just doesn't seem to bother actually reading anything he submits.

      • by MoriaOrc (822758)
        DotA (the name of the original game) is an acronym in which the first and last letters should be capitalized (the 'ot' standing for 'of the' is uncapitalized).

        Valve's (technically: VALVe's) new game is "Dota 2". It isn't an acronym. There was a bunch of legal posturing about who owns the right to the original name a few months ago with Valve/IceFrog (current maintainer and developer of DotA) on the one side and Riot Games/Guinsoo (the DotA developer/maintainer before IceFrog took over) on the other. A
    • by Ailure (853833) on Thursday October 14, 2010 @07:30AM (#33892090) Homepage

      As much using acronyms in situations like this annoys me, the acronym is more known than the full name.

      Or you insist calling it "Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation"? ;)

    • by RulerOf (975607) on Thursday October 14, 2010 @08:07AM (#33892344)

      What the hell is a DotA?

      Please, if you are going to use an acronym in a news post, especially one that may be a mod many are not familiar with, follow common courtesy and spell it out the first time it is used.

      While you raise a good question (plenty of people don't know what DotA is, of course!), concerns like this are the reason that I included a link to the Wikipedia article upon the first mention of DotA in the submission, as well as some context around said link for those too lazy to click through.

      DotA Allstars (DotA is short for Defense of the Ancients) is the world's most popular, most well balanced, and most refined incarnation of a very popular genre of RTS custom maps that began with a Starcraft map called Aeon of Strife that can collectively be referred to as the "AoS genre." However, though AoS was quite popular in its day (and I remember seeing the games on, but never played them!), it was plagued with balance issues, particularly in the first Warcraft III incarnations by the same name; those maps were basically won by padding your hero's agility stat and adding a lifestealing attack.... they were kinda stupid, but very fun nonetheless.

      Where AoS variants such as DotA differ from traditional RTS games is that instead of building and commanding a base and an army and its leaders (or heroes) and assaulting the opposite team to destroy its base, players instead control only the hero characters and the rest of the army that fights alongside you is completely controlled by the computer. You and your teammates then fight in this battle, killing enemy units and teaming up to gank (i.e. surprise and kill by abusing superior numbers, powerups, skills, whatever) enemy heroes for gold and experience, buying items and equipment to enhance your hero's stats, buff your team, or counter your opponents. The back and forth struggle is extremely teamwork oriented and incredibly fun, and playing the game with people who are all of a high skill level is quite possibly one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had in gaming, even when I've lost!

      I could go on and on about the awesomeness that the game is, but if you like games that require teamwork and skill (and don't involve any of the pervasive bullshit that has saturated FPS games since Counter-Strike became popular... "You aim at the chest and pull down on the mouse when you start shooting and get a HEADSHOT errrytime! CROUCH, CROUCH!") that are constantly improving, then you ought to give it a try. Bringing true DotA out of the Warcraft III engine and into modern times has been a dream of mine for a very long time, and though a game like Heroes of Newerth is a faithful clone, it's still not perfect from a gameplay perspective. It behaves considerably differently and the action is considerably faster, which I don't consider a good thing, though it is a great game itself.

      If you found any of that interesting, I do recommend giving it a try. You'll get wtfpwned for a while, but once you get your first triple kill, you'll never look back.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Rysc (136391) *

        If anyone is seriously planning to start playing DotA based on this here are a few tips:
        - Go to and download the latest map and the latest AI map - downloaders get kicked from most games
        - Learn the dota game modes. At the beginning only enter games marked APEM, All Pick, Easy Mode until you feel comfortable with most heroes and items.
        - Go to's forums and read a guide on a hero before you pick it the first time. Also read the general guides on jungling, denyin

      • by geekoid (135745)

        So it's an RTS for simpletons?

        • by Supurcell (834022)
          No. It's an RPG in the middle of a war.
        • Yes, i have also heard that it is quite easy to get into and n00bfriendly.
          you should get it and try it right away and start playing momentarily.
          the friendly community will be helping you along the way.

        • by Rysc (136391) *

          It's not an RTS at all. It's an electronic team sport. I've also recently heard people calling this type of game "Multiplayer online battle arena" or MOBA, which is a bit of a mouthful. It's a little like a third-person shooter, in that it's not first-person and you have two teams on a map running around killing each other, but players are not interchangeable, nor are weapons and there really isn't any "shooting"

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Himring (646324)
      This will best explain dota: []
    • I had no idea what it was either, but I assume that if you don't know, then you probably don't care anyways.
    • by brkello (642429)

      Like Defense of the Ancients is more descriptive? Do you still need to spell out IP or TCP? DotA is what the game is called...much more commonly than it is called Defense. On top of that it is in games. If you don't know what it is, google it. And then don't whine about it. DotA is its own genre...pretty much any other person who is half a gamer at least knows what it is.

    • I'm guessing its a prequel to "Legacy of the Ancients", a role playing game on the Commodore 64, but I am most probably wrong. Maybe it runs on one of those International Business Machine Personal Computers that a small group of people think can run games (when they are not busy running virus scanners and installing software updates).
  • better title (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jakobX (132504) on Thursday October 14, 2010 @06:32AM (#33891804)

    Wouldn't a better title be: Valve doesn't announce episode three after years of delays.

    • Re:better title (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Narishma (822073) on Thursday October 14, 2010 @07:24AM (#33892066)

      How can it be delayed when they've never announced a release date?

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by JohnnyBGod (1088549)

        Given that they went episodic in order to have more frequent updates to the series, I'd say it's way past time.

    • by Tik0 (1088873)
      Rumor is (and it is just rumor) that episode 3 has been renamed Half Life 3 and will be longer than half life 2 and the two episodes. In this scenario I think the time taken is justified.
      • by slyrat (1143997)

        Rumor is (and it is just rumor) that episode 3 has been renamed Half Life 3 and will be longer than half life 2 and the two episodes. In this scenario I think the time taken is justified.

        That makes a lot of sense. I have a feeling it has to do with the portal gun, which seems as though it will be used in HL3. Also, if that is the case I'm betting it will get more attention once Portal 2 comes out.

  • by ifrag (984323) on Thursday October 14, 2010 @06:37AM (#33891826)

    DotA is dying, and it's dying because there are already next generation replacements for it. A few years ago, the entire custom game list on Warcraft III would have been almost full of DotA and maybe a couple other games hosted here and there. These days it can take several minutes just to get a full game setup.

    For those who actually enjoyed the way DotA played and the associated content there is already a complete replacement with Heroes of Newerth. Which pretty much is what Valve is talking about making here. And for those who were actually looking for something different than a straight DotA clone, League of Legends actually makes an effort to change the game up in meaningful ways. Most significantly by throwing out the Warcraft III stat system.

    So despite Valve's track record, I'm not optimistic in their approach on this. I really doubt people want DotA yet again with a few enhancements. I think a 3rd generation sequel would have a lot more chance than a 1st generation remake. Unless they make more than trivial improvements in infrastructure this is not going to draw the players who are already in this market. Maybe they stand a chance for getting some new players, those not already involved in the MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) games. It would have been nice to see Valve actually do some research before trying to jump blindly into this.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by s7uar7 (746699)
      I've never heard of Dota or played Warhammer III; I do, however, have Steam installed and own all of Valve's games. It's not just existing Dota players who this will be aimed at, it's people like me.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Kenoli (934612)

        I've never... played Warhammer III

        I think they skipped 3 and went straight to 40000.

    • by Fearan (600696)

      I completely agree, and would like to add that if people just want DotA with VoIP, better graphics, etc... they can just play it on StarCraft 2 custom maps.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Kaboom13 (235759)

      The DotA community on Battlenet was killed by Blizzard, when they began banning people with no possibility for appeal for using the 3rd party tools necessary to making a decent game on possible. Tools like visual custom kick and banlist became bannable offenses, but they were pretty much necessary to have a game on battlenet that wasn't full of laggers, leavers, and griefers. The more serious players moved to 3rd party services/leagues, and the casual players quit or moved to League of Legends

      • by Rysc (136391) *

        This is correct. HoN is the viable DotA alternative today, but still not as good in many ways. Nothing beats the experience of straight DotA, if you can get a fucking game going. These days bots take care of most of the administrative hassle.

    • Why take a risk on a new market when you have an established one? Gaming companies are just as risk-averse as movie-makers are. If they think they have a formula that works, they will use it until it fails.
    • I'm worried this will end up being like Counter-Strike: Source.
      • by tibman (623933)

        I looked at the Steam Stats the other day and the #1 game played was CS:S.. i was amazed! Guess what #2 was? plain old CS. Gah! #3 was Modern Warfare 2.

    • by Himring (646324)
      I disagree to about 90% of this. Yes, DoTA has less following than it did, say, 3 years ago, but it is still very solid. It is my crack -- literally, I need therapy. I've been playing DoTA Allstars since 2004 (and there is an ancient, older WC3 DoTA that's not Allstars, but the one that's madly popular is Allstars -- technically, if you just say "DoTA" you mean the much older version that doesn't focus on heroes and that's less popular, but now, "DoTA" has come to mean "DoTA Allstars" and the "Allstars"
      • by ifrag (984323)

        I question just how much DoTA you have played/play.

        Played DotA? A lot in my opinion. Over 1000 games hosted by me easily. Usually don't join other peoples games since the latency benefit is nice to have, even with custom host utilities. I have my own customized build of the ghost hosting program, with a couple extra features (based on the already customized build someone else provides). Not even sure my bot will work with anymore though.

        And I'll admit, I don't play any more, at all. Last game wo

        • by Himring (646324)
          LoL, et al., indeed took some of the pop, but yes, games are still there and easy to find....
      • What other game and game engine made so long ago has a solid following, and allows you to join a 10 man-game at any time of day for over 5 or 6 years? WC3 DoTA is rare.... (ok, ok, Everquest deadheads)....

        The GoldSrc and Source engines, for one. Counter-Strike (GoldSrc engine, from 12 years ago) still has something like 40,000-60,000 concurrent players at any given time, according to Valve's Steam stats. Its remake, Counter-Strike: Source (Source engine, from 6 years ago updated to use the 2009 version o

    • There's also League of Legends, which is mostly DotA.
    • The sentences in your title are out of order.

    • by tibman (623933)

      The only thing i can say about valve is you never know WTF they are doing but it will be great. When they first started working on TF2, it was realistic looking and nothing like what we have today. Before TF2 was released they came out with all kinds of great things. EP3 will be the same thing.. when it comes out, you'll be surprised and really enjoy it.

      L4D2 is one of my favorite games, atm. When l4d2 came out a year after l4d1, i was thinking.. WTF valve, you barely finished the first l4d. But l4d2 re

  • by Rysc (136391) * <> on Thursday October 14, 2010 @06:43AM (#33891858) Homepage Journal

    Skill based matching? Shades of SC2. Everything you do is tied back to your one true identity? Uh oh. I've been playing dota for something like six or seven years now. I *like* the fact that anyone can host a game (especially now that bots have made this process hassle-free) and I *like* the fact that anyone can roll up a new bnet account in a few seconds. I've never been banned for anything, so it's not ban avoidance or dodging a bad reputation that I'm after. I like not always being the same person in every game. I like getting in to games with people far more skilled than I am! Yes, I lose badly, but I always learn something about play techniques that goes on to improve my game. How much can you learn if you can always compete with those you play against? All that teaches you is that you don't have to change anything and you'll do fine.

    I love getting in to games with the skilled players, the ones who can read your mind and are always up for a gank. Will I be relegated to the equivalent of pub mashups because of that one game where I fed like thanksgiving?

    I've played LoL and HoN so I know what can happen when you try to clone DoTA. Little things being different can make a large difference in gameplay: towers in HoN don't act quite right, nor is the right click interaction the same. When cloning the cloners are never content to just copy a good thing, they always *ALWAYS* try to 'fix' things they think are broken... usually with unintentionally awful side effects. Part of what I, and other dota players, like about dota is going to be lost if it becomes a hosted by a single central authority, requires a monthly fee to play, subjects you to "reputation" requirements before you can enter good games, or any one of a dozen other things that seem like good ideas from the outside.

    I like the idea of an updated dota client (war3 is a bit cumbersome!) but I worry about any big change. One nice thing about icefrog is that he doesn't change a lot of things at once, even when there's a big, sweeping change it's incremental. Since this is valve-based I'm presuming that means steam, and I hate steam in general. Will there be LAN play? Will we be able to host our own servers?

    How will things like OMG mode be supported? This is by far the most popular sub-mode of DoTA at the moment and with the keys to the kingdom locked up in a non-user-editable valve proprietary game I don't think OMG would ever have been developed. I certainly hope valve plans to support this in dota2, along with the built in but less common modes (id, sc, hell even wtf).

    tl;dr I'm worried by this, but I'd like to be happy about it. I just hope it's as good in every way as the existing dota.

    • you must be the only person who doesn't want skill based matching, i only ever played with my friends because every time i joined a random game i got cursed out and told to leave for feeding too much.
      • by Rysc (136391) *

        So stop feeding. I learned this, you can too.

        Skill based matching sounds good, sure, and it has its uses, but it's also hidden poison. Having an option for it is okay, requiring it is bad mojo.

        • nah, i'm done with it, players don't want me in their games and tbh i don't want to be messing up their games anyway.
          • by Rysc (136391) *

            The correct reaction is to ignore the loudmouth idiots. I assure you that 90% of dota players get yelled at for one thing or another by random players with no respect. You develop thick skin and filter it out, after a while. The rewards when things are going nicely outweigh the negatives, IMO.

            Learning how not to feed is pretty basic. Learning how to not make someone mad at you.... that's hard.

    • by agrif (960591)

      How will things like OMG mode be supported? This is by far the most popular sub-mode of DoTA at the moment and with the keys to the kingdom locked up in a non-user-editable valve proprietary game I don't think OMG would ever have been developed.

      This has already been said by an AC, but I'll echo it because it needs to be heard.

      Non-user-editable valve proprietary game? Really? Have you played valve's games? The Source SDK is available to anyone with a Source game, and they're all very mod-able. Valve actually encourages this, because some of their most popular products (Counter-Strike, Team Fortress) were mods for Half-Life that they bought out and hired the creators. This is sort-of what happened here with DoTA. I wouldn't worry about mod-ability.


      • by Rysc (136391) *

        No amount of history can be relied on for predicting future actions. The fact is that bob had complete access to do anything he needed and without that OMG would probably not have been created. If Valve makes DotA2 modable enough for this, great, but it's a point of concern for me no matter how good their track record is.

        I've played several valve games but this does not give me a positive impression of the company. I hope that everything you say is true and I really want it to be true, but I worry. I really

    • I'll address some of your points based on Valve's past history and current behavior:

      hosted by a single central authority

      While Valve will require you to have DotA 2 installed to a Steam account, none of their games so far force you to use Valve servers.

      In fact, Valve only runs game servers for Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2. Windows and Linux dedicated server binaries are available for all multiplayer games except Alien Swam, which forces one of the player to host the game.

      requires a monthly fee to play


      • by Rysc (136391) *

        FYI, my hatred for steam has nothing to do with network play. I do not like the idea that my games are tied in any way to a network, beyond what is necessary for gameplay. That includes extra content addons, unlockables, achievements, etc.. I just *bought* the game from valve, I didn't marry them, and I certainly don't want their nanny tool watching me and tracking everything I own and do. No, just no.

    • by tibman (623933)

      It's usually very easy to mod valve games. Lately their games have been via match-making type things. You can host a dedicated server but it's usually not accessable via a server browser. What happens is people setup a lobby and search for an empty server (it could be official, dedicated, or local host). There has always been lan-play too, but it's not the way you remember from older games. You don't goto Multiplayer->Lan->create game. You just create a lobby, invite your friends, and play. Thi

  • ...If this DotA gets as stats-oriented as Heroes of Newerth, for example, then I can only imagine what'll happen when someone disconnects and the AI takes over for them - and promptly feeds, or pushes solo, or wanders off to farm neuts for the rest of the game, or whatever else it can do to screw the team. This style of game takes a lot of decision-making - targets, farm, push/no push, cc, etc. I don't think an AI can really pull it off properly.
    • by ifrag (984323)

      There actually are bot-maps of DotA if you look for them, they were lagging behind current by several versions last time I snagged one. For one huge problem, bots can't really coordinate with players. Beyond maybe some simple AI to determine what action should be taken based on player pinging the map somewhere. Like go-to ping on major objectives or something.

      The only reason the DotA bots can actually compete is their lane micro is way above average. The sheer amount of last hit creep kills and denies i

      • by Rysc (136391) *

        First, AI maps in DotA are all unofficial (hence the lag time). Second, in addition to good micro the AI also cheats. A skilled player can last hit as well as an AI bot but if you leave the AI on hard mode (the default) they gain 150% XP. This is necessary to give them any hope of beating normal players. Even at their smartest the AI in BMP's maps can be exploited (clouds were even worse!) and their skill is very uneven. Example: If you're Lion and you mana drain one of the AI bots it will walk back and for

    • by Rysc (136391) *

      I had the same thought. I'd prefer the hero to simply run back to the fountain on disconnect and the game to allow a disconnected player to reconnect. Auto-reconnect is a killer feature, no doubt there. If someone simply leaves and doesn't come back then I don't see a problem with the -unlock vote and harvesting gold and items; that certainly beats an AI which cannot possibly be any good.

  • That is a very important question. Heroes of Newerth did some really cool things that can't be matched by typical RTS P2P play. First and foremost, its impossible to maphack because the netcode doesn't send information for units in fog of war, that information residing only on the server. You'd have to hack their servers to gain that exploit. They also have a reconnect feature where, say, if your comp restarts and you log back in, you are prompted to rejoin the game. These alone make it a much better e

  • Try Monday Night Combat. It's an awesome game that's a cross between a tower defense game and a 3rd person shooting game. There are classes VERY similar to Team Fortress 2, all of which are useful, and it has a great developer supporting it. It's a ton of fun.
  • The problem with DOTA and HON (I'm not sure about LOL) is that the player base is a bunch of assholes.

    • That is true, they are generally intolerant of anyone who doesn't know what they're doing, and even sometimes when they do.

  • No, thanks, I already get enough "in-game coaching" every time I pick up a DOTA clone...


    "OMG NOOB"


  • i extend my middle finger to you for calling Defense of the Ancients "Dota". i went looking for a game called Dota (no such game exists).

    This is how you should have introduced the acronym for Defense of the Ancients (DotA). i wrote it in full and put the acronym in parentheses, showing that i'll be referring to it as DotA from now on. Further more, you made the acronym look like a word/name by leaving the A in lower case. If the A was capitalized the reader would know they are looking at an abbreviation

It is much harder to find a job than to keep one.