FarmVille Now Worth More Than EA 344
tekgoblin writes "Zynga, the creators of the popular hit Facebook game FarmVille, should be happy today as the company's worth has passed that of EA (Electronic Arts)."
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FarmVille Now Worth More Than EA
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Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
I can already see how many posts here will be about how dumb the game is and how only dumb people play it, but I don't think it matters. People like it and the company is making more money than EA. They don't have piracy problems, they have lower development costs and a have HUGE untapped market to gain that will most likely grow a lot more in the future as this all is still so new. But that they already passed the industry giant EA really shows something.
And good for them and the people who play FarmVille and other social games on social networking games. I think it has been over 20 years that we have talked about how to get gaming to be more "normal" and how to get girls to game too - this is it. Let people enjoy the games they like.
Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
I can already see how many posts here will be about how dumb the game is and how only dumb people play it
This was my knee-jerk reaction when I first heard of Farmville.
Let people enjoy the games they like.
After I got over my indignant nerdrage, this was the line of thinking I took. To me, a game like Farmville is a waste of time...but then again, I'm sure there are plenty of people that think putting 100+ hours into Oblivion or lord knows how many hours into MMOs is also a waste of time.
"Different games for different lames", as a fellow gamer in my office put it.
Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
My wife likes to point out that me playing Civ III is just about the same as her playing Farmville. The only difference is that in Civ III I get to kill people.
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There is alot more strategy to Civ III then Farmville.
Re:Strategy! (Score:2)
We desperately need someone to do a +1 Godel and arrange their farm like a Go board.
It would give entire new meaning to "Life or Death" questions for your farm!
Re:Social games (Score:4, Insightful)
Does it make it less enjoyable for her? I'd say she probably is happy it isn't as complex and she can just poke around for a few minutes a day and be done with it.
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This is where humans are really fundamentally different. Some find that work is mind-numbingly boring, and when they go home they want something mentally challinging so they play a highly multitasking RTS, a twitching FPS or a deeply strategic TBS. Then there are the people that find that work is all the work they need, and when they come home they just want to zone out.
Not do nothing, because that is too boring but put on some light entertainment on TV. Read a tabloid or gossip magazine. Turn in to same "e
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I've just had a read about Farmville on Wikipedia to see if it's any more in depth than I expected, but it's not. It sounds like typical RPG style gameplay where the key element to success is simply playing a lot to rack up some XP, though I don't think there is actually any end goal.
Civilisation might be similar overall, but it definitely requires a bit more skill and has more goals to aim for than simply the research and building more advanced units. Having to compete against CPU or human opponents certai
Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
And you use strategy and planning, and actually think. Versus simply clicking on what's flashing. There is a huge difference between "traditional" games and Farmville type stuff. The majority of "casual" games are made for people who don't like thinking and just want to... do repetitive things I guess.
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Minecraft's another good example. It's basically a 3D Farmville, or an antisocial Animal Crossing, and operates on much the same set of drives and play cycles.
Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference is that Civ III is a game. Farmville is a drug. Zynga employs full-time psychologists and their "games" serve one purpose: Make you return and return and return.
There've been some excellent articles including some with real research and investigative journalism. Anyone who still thinks that Zynga makes games has been living under a rock.
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The difference is that Civ III is a game. Farmville is a drug.
All good games are drugs, and Civ ranks pretty damn high on that list. I mean, have you never experienced (or at least heard of) the dreaded "one more turn" syndrome?
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Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
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Probably not as profitable, but profitable all the same.
It was almost 10 years ago now that Popcap figured out that casual gamers are one hell of a money spinner so it's certainly not a new realisation. Facebook just helped change the degree to which they could make money- Popcap now (or a year or two ago at Facebook's game spam peak) would also probably have achieved the level of income Zynga has.
So I think Zynga would've still been succesful without Facebook, but I agree not to the extent they have been w
Re:Social games (Score:4, Insightful)
My obligatory response to any mention of Zynga games:
"Addicted to Fake Achievement" :
http://www.pixelpoppers.com/2009/11/awesome-by-proxy-addicted-to-fake.html [pixelpoppers.com]
I was hooked on MafiaWars and Starfleet Commander for a spell. Quit cold turkey a few months back.
I do have a whole new understanding of my hamsters on their treadmills now.
Re:Social games (Score:4, Insightful)
Pretty much all computer games are about fake achievements - apart from possibly the drums on Rock Band/Guitar Hero, and soon the real guitar playing on Rock Band 3, which translate to skills that could actually have real world applications. The worth of real world achievements is probably pretty hard to define too though.
For example you could learn how to do a backflip. It looks cool, and is certainly an achievement as it requires getting over your fears and perfecting your technique. But it is essentially useless. Is it a fake achievement? I'm not sure. People certainly think it's cool anyway. But, plenty of people must think Farmville is cool too.. if someone is happy with virtual achievements, then I suppose just let them be. They'll get bored eventually. Even what you consider real achievements will get boring eventually if you don't vary it up.
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nah, it shows the power of psychologically manipulative games that are on an exploitative website (facebook), and how the two together can exploit users' own money.
That's not success, it's more unethical success.
Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, a lot of people who play farmville DON't like the game. They feel trapped and socially obligated to help their friends out. That's why Farmville is evil. It's OK for those who like the game, but for those who don't but still play, it's pure evil.
By the same measure, Civ V is partly evil. I love the game, but dragging at work because of "one more turn" hitting 4AM is just nasty.
Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
If you put a value to your time and then do ANYTHING that is "less profitable" than that perceived value then you are wasting time, right?
Re:Social games (Score:5, Funny)
Personally, I can't put it any better than a friend of mine who uses Facebook put it when she said: "I get a message off this guy. He's a grown man. He's in his thirties. And he wants me to send him an onion."
Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
As opposed to the grown man in his thirties who goes into a fit of depression when some millionaires on TV don't catch a ball in a kid's game?
We aren't all writing the next great novel. What are you working for anyway? To relax and amuse yourself I assume. If people want to play a game let them.
Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
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Exactly right. That's not to say that relaxing and playing some games isn't valuable though. Rest is very important for physical and mental wellbeing.
Personally I doubt I'll ever try Farmville, but I'm happy to play games (generally action oriented) on days when I'm taking a rest from more active pastimes.
Re:Social games (Score:5, Insightful)
with lot of time to waste
"Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted." -John Lennon
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62 million users can't be wrong, right?
from what I've heard, Farmville is very addicting and it constantly has new components keeping it interesting to play for quite some time. But most of the people I know that tried it got tired of it after about a week or so.
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Is this Farmville game actually hard / exciting, or is it an exercise in button pushing?
If pushing buttons is fun, who cares?
Most games are "button pushing" these days. Even the more tactical ones, since most strategies are long discovered and explained.
Kind of a biased rating system. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Kind of a biased rating system. (Score:4, Insightful)
Just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean it's bad. 'Good' is highly subjective. I think sports are idiotic because it consists of people throwing/hitting random objects around on fields. Does that mean I think that anyone who likes them is an idiot or are wrong? No. It's just my opinion, like that is yours.
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Assuming you do actually enjoy it. If MMOs are anything to go by a lot of people only enjoy it that 10% of the time it's actually fun (big raids, PVP etc.) and spend the rest of the time pissed off, fed up, and waiting for that thrill to come along next. People seem to put themeselves through these things for a variety of reasons other than enjoyment such as laziness to put in the initial effort to do something they'll enjoy more overall (i.e. go out with friends), depression and hence general lack of motiv
Re:Social games (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Social games (Score:5, Funny)
it actually is a product for dumb people, with lot of time to waste and no sense of worth.
coincidentally, the target democratic is extremely profitable.
...Which is a dumber waste of time:
A) Playing FarmVille
B) Commenting in a news site about an article about FarmVille. Anonymously.
I vote for C) Commenting about a comment about an article about FarmVille. I hate myself.
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We had this discussion yesterday here on Slashdot.
There are plenty of difficult modern titles out there if you want a challenge. Try beating Ninja Gaiden Black on the highest difficulty. Try playing The Dark Spire or any of the Etrian Odyssey games. Try playing Demon Souls. Try playing Dragon Age on the hardest difficulty setting. Hell, try playing Fallout New Vegas on the highest difficulty setting.
I get what you are saying about a general shift towards more "simplified" gaming, but there are plenty o
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What if *shock*, you don't like those games?
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Do you mean difficult games, or any of the games that I mentioned?
If you meant difficult games, then no problem...don't play them. If you meant the games I mentioned, then I don't know what to tell you. Most of the major genres are represented there...
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Most of the major genres? They're all RPGs :P
Apart from possibly Ninja Gaiden but I really didn't like that when I played the demo. It's very arcadey. I hate games which look amazing, but then you try and wander off the path and you hit an invisible wall. It really takes away from the immersion..
I do like some 3rd person action games like Uncharted and Assassin's Creed, and stuff like Uncharted is pretty damn difficult on the highest difficulty setting (haven't played Assassin's Creed much).
There are still
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Sorry, used the wrong phrase...meant styles of play (third person, first person, turn-based, real-time, action-based, tactical-based, etc.)
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What are your favorite games?
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Apparently his favorite is Farmville.
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Fallout 2 & 3, TES 3 & 4, Master of Magic, Neverwinter Nights, Space Rangers 2, The Temple of Elemental Evil, Alpha Centauri, System Shock 2, the Unreal Series, the Civ Series, Arcanum, Vampire: Bloodlines, Planescape: Torment, Final Fantasy I - VII, Dungeon Keeper II, the Baldur's Gate series.
All favorites, all for different reasons.
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Try beating Ninja Gaiden Black on the highest difficulty. Try playing The Dark Spire or any of the Etrian Odyssey games. Try playing Demon Souls. Try playing Dragon Age on the hardest difficulty setting. Hell, try playing Fallout New Vegas on the highest difficulty setting.
There's a big difference between hard and not appealing to the lowest common denominator. I love Ninja Gaiden and that game was great, but telling someone to go back and play it on hard doesn't overcome the issue. Games like Alan Wake don't get made by companies appealing to the lowest denominator.
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True.
Want to have some fun? Have a "casual" gamer pick up Oblivion. Help them out through the sewers, get them used to the controls and the play style. Then, when they exit the sewer, they will inevitably ask you where they are supposed to go. This is your response: "Pick a direction, and run."
Watch their heads explode.
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Re:Social games (Score:4, Interesting)
Casual gamers have increased the total number of people who play games. I don't think it has decreased the number of hard core gamers that are looking for something deep. If anything, the potential audience for a big, deep game is now larger.
The only problem that I see is that is getting more and more difficult for game companies to justify charging $50 or more for a game. Only one of the games I have bought in the past year was more than $10 and I was really disappointed in that game (ModNation Racers). Cheap, but awesome (IMO) games on Apple devices and Steam sales have really lowered what I'm willing to pay for a game. $10 or under and it's a no-brainer. If the game sucks, I don't care as I'm only out a few dollars.
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Are you serious? The Hurt Locker was released in 2008, and Precious (which I've never heard of) in 2009. People have been complaining along the same lines as you for years (probably since movies first came out), and yet those movies were still made.
Yes there's a lot of crap out there, but there are still plenty of great movies being made. It's the same with music, books, and games. It's the same with everything people do. Lots of crap, some good stuff. Enjoy the good stuff, try not to bother with the crap.
Wait.. Wait... (Score:2)
Someone will say "hardcore gaming is dying" soon...
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No more Counter Strike? I'm failing to see how this is a bad thing?
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The only thing to really be extracted from this post is that you suck at Counter-Strike?
Re:Hardcore Gaming is dying (Score:4, Funny)
What about "Counter Strike: Cooking Mama Edition"?
Re:Hardcore Gaming is dying (Score:4, Funny)
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Counter Strike: Farmville.
Now you get to blow up chickens, goats, pigs, cows, and farmers!
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Counter Strike: Farmville.
Now you get to blow up chickens, goats, pigs, cows, and farmers!
Sounds boring as a game. You can shoot a real cow with a bazooka for $50 in Cambodia :P
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Sounds boring as a game. You can shoot a real cow with a bazooka for $50 in Cambodia :P
Doesn't sound exactly challenging. Do they run the same tours in New Deli?
Re:Hardcore Gaming is dying (Score:5, Funny)
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Ah, Battle Cattle.
Somewhere around here I have the Steve Jackson card-based version of that game. It's pretty fun when you've got a few people with a warped sense of humor and a bit of free time.
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I used to blow up chickens all the time in Counter-Strike. As long as these other critters make fun noises when they explode then I'm all for it.
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It's actually called Redneck Rampage.
Estimated Worth and the 7 Eleven Stratagem (Score:5, Insightful)
Sort of nitpicking but if you click through to the businessweek source [businessweek.com] article, you'll notice that Zynga Game Network's value is an estimated worth while EA's value is a stock-market value. You should note that the former is estimated by SharesPost Inc. while the latter is determined by the Nasdaq Stock Exchange (in the past year EA has slumped almost 20%).
That's not to say Zynga isn't worth this much, I had a very shocking realization one day as I went to 7 Eleven to pick up some milk. Zynga has partnered with 7 Eleven [7-eleven.com] in selling and marketing FarmVille, Mafia Wars and YoVille items and 'currency.' That's right, like a phone card you can get a prepaid Farmville card at any 7 Eleven (at least in my area) and they were putting free items on Slurpees, Big Gulps, coffee, candy and fast food they sold in the store. So you'd get this little peel off thing giving you a bulletproof vest in Mafia Wars and then it'd tell you how to log in to use it. I bet that alone got a lot more people hooked on Facebook -- just to get to their free item in Zynga's game (and this is why I feel borderline justified to call it a stratagem instead of strategy)!
For sometime now you've been able to buy WoW prepaid cards at 7 Eleven and there's been a handful of Xbox/PS/Wii games behind the counter but when I saw the shelf space and signs devoted to this stuff I knew it was going to dwarf all other forms of gaming very quickly. I know there are plenty of other reasons [slashdot.org] but when you see something completely outside the realm of where you think you should see a social game (I was going to 7 Eleven to pick up some skim milk), it really hits you right in the face how big this is going to get. Put yourself even spread out across the entire United States with ~10,000 locations of advertising and insertion and you're going to beat anything EA can put out with its billion of dollars. In order to compete with this, EA would have to put a demo disc of four different games targeting different ages for free on the counter of 7 Elevens (like a separate AOL disc for three different consoles and CPU). Despite how relatively inexpensive that would be for them, they aren't going to do that. And that's how Zynga wins out, the illusion that it's 'free' paired with efficient mass distribution of the free concept.
Re:Estimated Worth and the 7 Eleven Stratagem (Score:5, Informative)
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Three points:
- There is more to the world than the US. Partnering with 7-Eleven does nothing to sell their stuff outside North America. The US is only 24% of the world economy and EA sells their games everywhere.
- 7-Eleven will give loads of space to anything if their comissions are big enough. If for example they got a 50% cut on the action from Zynga while Blizzard would only give them 5% on WoW top-up cards, guess who they would give more space to? All things considered, if their profit is 10x as much pe
Re:Estimated Worth and the 7 Eleven Stratagem (Score:4, Interesting)
I ultimately wonder what that means for Facebook's privacy issues - knowing that essentially the developer gets a lot of un-needed info, Zynga essentially has as much power to abuse Facebook's privacy policy as Mark Zuckerberg but everyone just likes to hate on Z since he's the one who started it all.
I remember there was a big issue a while back when EA wanted to put adverts into its games (I believe Battlefield 2142 was their prime pilot candidate) - and everyone made a big deal because it was like they were able to target you better because they knew what kind of games you played and it would be another venue for kids to get bombarded. There was a supposed rumour that the game was going to go through your browsing cookies looking for info but ultimately that wasn't the case (I don't think EA was stupid enough to try pulling that off without some backlash).
But here you've got what essentially amounts to an even bigger invasion of privacy - and people don't even notice because the blame game currently points at someone else. Many sources have supposedly caught Pincus (CEO of Zynga) saying that scamming users was part of their business model, though its usually small articles on places like techcrunch, so I take it with a bit of salt. Anyways, the point is that everyone seems to be mad at Zuckerberg for creating this monstrosity designed to pluck your personal info - meanwhile someone else who is probably worse in moral integrity also has access to it.
See this is where people say Facebook is the next Myspace. I don't think they've realized that Facebook elevated the game entirely, it's not just 12-30 year olds using it now - it's not just a fad social network for teenagers - its everybody, in almost every age group, and simple applications built into the platform have made their way into 711. So Facebook Apps are too addictive for most people to drop, so they don't want Facebook to go down. If Facebook isn't in threat of going down, Zuckerberg doesn't have to worry much. If Zuckerberg doesn't have to worry, then Pincus doesn't have to worry. Its a vicious circle where they both support each other and no one can stop them.
which aptly demonstrates... (Score:2)
So, today Slashdot has a change of heart. (Score:2)
Are you implying EA is making high quality games now?
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Not all of them. But some of them are.
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I thought that's what he meant. :-P
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Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age were developed by Bioware, which is known to make awesome RPGs and the likes of it (Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Knights of the Old Republic and so on...). Dead Space was really developed by EA, that's true.
Personally, if somebody mentions EA, I have to think of "Battle for Middle-Earth" and what a good game it *could* have been, and the dragonic DRM of Spore (okay, Ubisoft is winning this one)...and why the hell is Left 4 Dead selling as EA Classic?!
Another happy piece of information (Score:2)
Facebook has an application blocking feature which keeps me blissfully oblivious that there are more Farmville users than citizens in my country.
Not that I'm saying there's anything worse with playing Farmville compared to some other random game online, but I _just don't care_.
This seems appropriate. (Score:3, Insightful)
"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." - H.L. Mencken.
Misleading at best (Score:5, Insightful)
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I think he's not so much talking about people leaving FaceBook.
FaceBook are currently allowing third parties to put games on their network. They probably won't change that, but they could decide to try and make their own games and block every one else. Having your companies entire livelihood depend on someone else (who has proven themselves to be fickle in the past) is not a good long-term strategy.
EA had every opportunity (Score:2, Insightful)
I've always felt that one of EA's greatest challenges has been recognizing disruptive technology and capitalizing on it.
This played out numerous times with the PS3 vs. Wii, PSP vs. DS, and especially regarding micro-transactions. There is a producer at EA who, since at least 2005, was not only aware of how important MTX was in Asia, but that we couldn't keep believing that cultural barriers wouldn't keep games on the pay-per-month subscription model forever here in the U.S. I remember going to his brown-bag
Only in a virtual world... (Score:2)
Yeah, but... (Score:2)
Farmville may be worth more than EA but only because Farmville's worth is measured in these stupid coins that you can't use for anything.
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My mom came to visit and plays Farmville (Score:2)
AOL (Score:2)
Farmville is worth more than EA like AOL was worth more than Time-Warner.
. . . it's not.
- oakbox
Not surprising (Score:2)
oblig (Score:4, Interesting)
http://xkcd.com/802/ [xkcd.com]
"Best trivia I learned while working on this: Man, Farmville is so huge! Do you realize its the second-biggest browser-based social-networking-centered farming game in the WORLD? Then you wait for the listener to do a double-take."
Re:Well duh? (Score:5, Interesting)
As opposed to who, Zynga?
"I don't fucking want innovation," the ex-employee recalls Pincus [Zynga's CEO] saying. "You're not smarter than your competitor. Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."
http://www.bnet.com/blog/high-tech/zynga-8217s-winning-strategy-don-8217t-innovate-copy-execute-and-scale/1157
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Reminds of one executive at a big Game Studio (EA? Can't remember...) "I take the fun out of writing games, because then people get more productive".
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judging by recent developments, that would be a good thing
Command And Conquer: Farmville wars
Fifarmville
Medal of Honour, assault at farmville
I'll take that over the tripe that EA has been spewing lately
Re:Wait, I'm confused (Score:5, Insightful)
This says more about market analysts and valuation than either company. Remember back when AOL bought Time Warner with essentially monopoly money? Same thing here.
The valuation of something becomes detached from their revenue, assets, long-term prospects, and other things. You get a completely fictional valuation that in a couple of months or years won't be worth a damn. In the mean time, someone will cash out a huge amount of actual dollars, and leave everyone else holding the bag when the value of this stuff becomes worthless.
Unless you're a day trader from the 90s, or were involved in selling Asset Backed Paper Commodities, you should treat this like a temporary blip that has nothing to do with actual money.
Basically, this is equating a fad with no real tangible value with real assets and revenues. Only the suckers buy into this.
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I think it's saying that these analysts believe Zynga will grow faster and be more profitable than EA in the semi-near future. I believe that's probably correct. EA isn't going to get much bigger and their margins just aren't that great. Zynga, on the other hand, are growing about as quickly as a company can grow and their margins have to be crazy high. That's very attractive to investors, that attracts speculators, and that builds a bubble.
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Yeah, but getting into something you know is a bubble is like getting in on a pyramid scheme and hoping you get out before it collapses.
I've seen this numerous times over the years. Anybody who actually believes there is value there is either going to get burned, or is basically trying to scoop out the
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I wouldn't want the people managing my investment portfolio to be stupid enough to treat Zynga like an actual thing which should be considered real and of value.
Zynga may be overvalued, but they are selling the same thing EA is - IP.
I think you can make a good analogy with TV shows. Zynga is like reality programming. Cheap to make, sometimes poorly made, but often very profitable. EA is making big, expensive shows that can be a great success (like Sopranos) or inexplicably crash and burn (too many examples of this).
I always cringe when people who are supposed to understand the fundamentals of valuation go zany and buy into utter hype
People buy stock for lots of different reasons. The people who buy for different reasons than you aren't necessarily cringe-worthy. Perhaps they are jus
Re:Wait, I'm confused (Score:5, Insightful)
They're welcome to do so. But, it was major brokerage houses who were betting on the funny money that led to the meltdown of financial markets. Gamble with your own money if you're willing/can afford it -- don't mingle my money in with the monopoly money though.
Having a viable, long-term business model, operations, assets, and profits isn't antiquated. Though, over the last 10-15 years, stock-holders have come to expect unreasonable growth, leading to companies making bad decisions to make the numbers for this quarter match what is expected -- usually at the expense of future results as they gut their operations so they can "improve efficiencies".
So you cut your workforce now, show an improved profit, get your bonuses and run. And, in five years, you no longer have the ability to make product.
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Facebook was the rocket that put them into orbit, but aren't they now making games for iOS and Android? The social backend is probably still Facebook though, but I imagine that would be easy enough to update if somebody topples Facebook.
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EA at least has a stock value to calculate a value from, however abstract that value may be. Zynga isn't public and doesn't even have a nominal value.
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Yeah, like I said, monopoly money. Might as well say Zynga is worth "one billion trillion dollars". It's completely meaningless.
Of course, that doesn't mean that someone won't sell the company for obscene sums of money and run like hell before the investors realize they've bought magic beans.
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Farmville = Tulips?
More likely about the stock market (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, it probably just says more about the stock market than anything else.
It's not that hard to find (usually temporary) situations where it acts... strangely. E.g., back when it was a subsidiary of 3Com, at one point Palm was valued so high that the shares 3Com owned in it were worth more than the total worth of 3Com. With the obvious paradox that then the rest of 3Com was essentially worth a negative number, although they were turning up a tidy profit and all. With the also (not so) paradoxical situation that a bunch of "pundits" and shareholders were actually wanting 3Com to get rid of those other divisions, although, again, they were actually turning a tidy profit.
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