Sony Gets Geohot's Hardware, But Not YouTube/Twitter User Info 254
RedEaredSlider writes "A Federal court in California has denied Sony's motion to pull the personal information of Twitter and YouTube users who might have downloaded code that allows PlayStation 3s to run with alternative operating systems. The company had filed a motion for discovery, asking for the personal information of users of Twitter and YouTube who might have a connection with George Hotz, who had published a piece of code on his Web site that allowed a PlayStation 3 to run other operating systems as well as pirated games. Sony was, in essence, asking for the contact information of people who had commented on the video Hotz posted showing how he used the code, as well as people he may have corresponded with via Twitter. The judge in the case, Susan Illston, denied the motion. Hotz is still under a restraining order that forbids him from offering any methods or software that allow people to modify their Sony PlayStation 3s. Nor is he allowed to provide links to sites that offer such methods or software. He is also ordered to turn over his computers to Sony."
Fuck Sony (Score:5, Insightful)
Fuck Sony.
Re:Fuck Sony (Score:5, Funny)
In Soviet America, Sony Fucks you.
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In Soviet America, Sony Fucks you.
Seems they do that everywhere!
Re:Fuck Sony (Score:4, Insightful)
Fuck Sony.
I think your two words (plus Insightful moderation) just 'bout sums up everything.
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Re:Fuck Sony (Score:4, Insightful)
No ... just that he can't tell everyone else how to do it when Sony can make the case that what he's shown is how to do illegal things.
Now, as to if that makes any sense ...
Re:Fuck Sony (Score:5, Insightful)
No, the judge is saying she has the right to demand that Geohot hand over hardware to Sony.
Not to the court for information to be determined whether it is relevant for Sony's case, but DIRECTLY TO SONY.
Yeah. It is that fucked up. Essentially, he's punished before any guilt is found.
Even further in the ruling, though, she allowed Sony to play jurisdiction-shopping and keep the lawsuit in San Francisco despite NOTHING in the case being related to that area, except that it makes it infinitely harder for Geohot to defend since he will have to fly back and forth and back and forth every time this brainless bimbo schedules a hearing.
Yet another case with a technological moron judge saying "oh, what the big corporation wants the big corporation gets. Shut up you peon you shouldn't have messed with a big corporation."
Someone please - check into this corrupt judge's finances. I suspect there are some doozies in there.
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I will NEVER buy anything with the Sony brand name. No matter how cheap.
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Re:Fuck Sony (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Fuck Sony (Score:4, Informative)
Agreed.
Sony just guaranteed I won't buy anything from them EVER AGAIN.
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Its ok, I make sure that my PS3 and all my games are bought second hand.
Its the least I can do...
It is also unfortunately the most I can do since most of my friends I play online with are on PSO.
Just Sony? (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's their fault they tried, they could have not gone to court.
Re:Just Sony? (Score:5, Informative)
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No defending Sony, but I'm putting this out there.
The person who takes the bribe (or campaign contributions) is much more morally bankrupt than the person offering. Joe and Orin could have said no.
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Sorry, but you did not arbitrarily capitalize words. Your point is thus invalid.
Re:Just Sony? (Score:4, Funny)
Sorry, but you DID NOT arbitrarily capitalize words. Your point is thus INVALID.
ftfy
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No defending Sony, but I'm putting this out there.
The person who takes the bribe (or campaign contributions) is much more morally bankrupt than the person offering. Joe and Orin could have said no.
The entire American system for funding political parties is based around mutual back scratching. No point jabbing your finger at individuals either. The problem is bigger than that. You need to replace your flag's stars and stripes with a loofah and dollar signs.
Welcome to the world of multinational corporations (Score:2)
Exactly what percentage of Sony's revenue do your purchases represent?
Welcome to the world of multinational corporations.
What makes you think that your advertisement efforts will prove more effective than Sony's?
Once again, welcome to the world of multinational corporations.
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Our justice system allows for people to go to court when they feel like they've been wronged. That's not flawed.
The problem is companies like Sony abusing that right. I hope they get their backsides handed to them and additional fines for wasting the court's time.
Re:Just Sony? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Criminal vs Civil. Lawsuits are civil, what was flawed there was the criminal system.
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You act like it's Sony's fault that our justice system lets them get away with this crap.
Good point... I'd agree that all the lobbying, bribes, "sponsoring" laws, misusing DHS and "special considerations" given to our representatives that companies like Sony make have no effect on such things.
Oh, wait...
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Sony does the proper thing and requests a court order. The court has the obligation to do the right thing, not Sony. If you're upset with the judge's decision, blame the judge. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with a company seeking such an injunction against someone harming their business.
Re:Fuck Sony (Score:4, Informative)
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In this country, the rule is supposed to be that every person can do what they want, less a few exceptions that are intended to ensure that every person can do what they want.
If a corporation has become so powerful that it can enforce such nonsense as "you bought that, but you don't own it," and "my money trumps your freedom" then its existence should be brought to an end. We allow the existence of corporations in order to enhance our individual freedom, not the other way around.
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I agree with you about the judge, but that doesn't mean Sony did the "proper thing". I think we can safely blame both of them.
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Interesting.
There's nothing whatsoever wrong with a company seeking such an injunction against someone harming their business.
And in what way is SONY's business being harmed?
SONY sold a piece of equipment and after the sale and without notice, reduced the equipment's functionality.
Hotz did manage to figure out the master key allowing for the signing of software so that this deleted functionality could be restored. Mr Hotz wouldn't have attempted to determine that key if it were not for SONY unilaterally reducing the equipment's functionality. And even then, the number of people who would use the key discovered by Mr Ho
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I think most of us are troubled that the judge gave such a cavalier dismissal of his right to privacy in a case that amounts to enforcing censorship of free speech.
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"Turn over his computers"?
Go on Craigslist, buy some junk, DBAN 'em, Here's my computers, suck my dick!
Fuck you, Fuck you, Fuck you!
Re:Fuck Sony (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Fuck Sony (Score:4, Funny)
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If I wear GeoHot I would comply with the order - after feeding the hardware through a wood chipper and a trash compactor.
Some Sanity (Score:2)
Well at least there is some sanity. I am pretty sure commenting on a video is not a crime no matter what the video shows.
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Yet...
I'm sure sometime in the future, it'll be seen as being an adversary in criminal activity... by some twisted legal standing.
I'm Confused (Score:5, Insightful)
Why isn't George Hotz (GeoHot) having a third party do the discovery on his computer(s)?
Then his lawyer and him sit down with the 3rd party to go over their discovery and assert privilege on what they feel should not be shared.
Finally, the Judge makes a decision on the privilege claims and only then does Sony get to see anything.
At least that's usually how these things work when you don't want the other side trolling through your papers or hard drives.
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What is to stop GeoHot from giving them a doctored system with extremely small amounts of information?
It will show the keys and some dev stuff, but no stored passwords, no documents, nothing for Sony to look through and find people that he has worked with.
The lack of 3rd party discovery works both ways here. GeoHot and his lawyer have the perfect answer when Sony says they did not find what they were looking for (biased investigation), "That's baseless conjecture your honor. My client stores no passwords
Re:I'm Confused (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm in an graduate level Advanced Computer Forensics course right now... and the fact that they aren't having a 3rd party do this is shameful, with the "point and click" forensics software out there now a days... they could just enter the hex for the key and find every copy of it on the drive, and then just look near those places... etc... geohot should MD5(which is still forensically "good" for fingerprinting (oddly... from someone with a crypto background) but SHA-1/SHA-256/CRC/etc his drive to make sure that nothing is tampered with... preserve data integrity.
Though... personally I would just give them a freshly wiped HDD and call it a day, and apologize to the judge and tell them it was b/c of the Sony root-kit on a CD he bought at a thrift store ;)
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I think it would be tremendously stupid for Geohot to do any sort of shenanigans like that (giving them a wiped/doctored/broken disk/computer), as it makes him very likely to get slammed for contempt of court. Great points about the merits of 3rd party discovery, though.
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And get thrown in jail for contempt of court and/or perjury. Though with all his asinine grandstanding regarding both iPhone and PS3 hacking, it's certainly not out of the realm of plausibility.
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Because I'm fairly sure Sony is going to get Mr Hotz 10yr old laptop with a fresh install of Debian on it.
I would opt for Windows XP with a Sony rootkit - much more fun!
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One amusing aspect. (Score:2)
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Well, sort of. 95% of the break was done by fail0verflow, who I think it's safe to say don't hold Hotz or his motives in particularly high regard. [twitter.com] They quite deliberately stopped at the point where they could run homebrew unrestricted, since going further had no use other than piracy. Predictably, Hotz did that extra part and released it as a pirate-friendly "jailbreak.zip".
Whilst the DMCA is total bullshit, it's hard to feel too much sympathy for him. He did something that had no purpose other than enablin
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IMHO - any civil disobedience, high-minded or not, is just fine in my book. Whatever his motivation, he's now fighting the good fight. Either get behind him or don't.
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From what I've read, not quite. Apparently he took the first step, then another group (Fail0verflow IIRC) took the next step, then Geohot was the one who actually got the private key.
46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 (Score:3, Insightful)
That's funny 46 DC EA D3 17 FE 45 D8 09 23 EB 97 E4 95 64 10 D4 CD B2 C2
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You sunk my battleship!
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Oh my god deja vu [wikipedia.org].
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On second thought, it seems Sony has learned from the AACS fiasco.
That private key is a whole four bytes longer than the 09-f9 one!
(Though until they make one longer than 140 bytes, they're pretty much screwed.)
send the systems COD by the cheapest shiping co (Score:2)
send the systems COD by the cheapest shiping co and let them do the boxing.
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No.. I'd allow them to duplicate the hard drive.. NOTHING MORE. And then validate it with a checksum on the drive (compared to your original).
At least this way they don't get the hardware but they DO get the information on it.
And you demand the checksum be recalculated by a 3rd party AFTER they've done their "inspection" and it better be 100% the same.
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No.. I'd allow them to duplicate the hard drive.. NOTHING MORE. And then validate it with a checksum on the drive (compared to your original).
Feel free to suggest this, however you should be aware that this is court ordered. That means that there is now 'allowing'. You refuse, the judge has the option to do things varying between holding you in contempt or having the police go and confiscate your stuff.
I'd have my lawyer explain how giving them certified copies of the contents of my HD would allow Sony to investigate while not unduly burdening myself by losing access to my own records and information.
Then again, I'd also have my lawyer argue th
Oops! (Score:2)
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Use a security algorithm where one of the keys is based on reverse geocaching. The key is only available if the system is within a reasonable distance of the location where the file was created.
Unconstitutional? (Score:2)
Since when the demandant can confiscate property of the person is accusing?
They could plant anything they want.
At most hardware should be confiscated by the Feds and be examined by them or a recognized 3rd party.
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Knowing Sony they'll definitely try to plant something there AND will take backups of everything, absolutely everything, and then later on use the totally irrelevant pieces to try to deface Geohot. Hell, they'll just "leak" it to someone else who ain't working at Sony and who'll do the actual defacing all the while claiming their innocence.
That's a great way to compromise your case and get sanctioned by a Judge.
Anything that gets leaked from GeoHot's computers will effectively be blood on Sony's hands.
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Wipe from the internet? (Score:5, Informative)
or
?
Perhaps this software? http://psl1ght.com/ [psl1ght.com]
With this? http://cl.ly/3yVX [cl.ly]
Re:Wipe from the internet? (Score:5, Funny)
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Can Sony sue me for this? (Score:2)
http://vivin.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/key.png [vivin.net]
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That's ok, we can just convert the hex into ascii. Of course, your kid's name is going to be difficult to pronounce... "FÜêÓEØ #ëädÂ"
(note: Slashdot is going to eat half of it. Oh well, you get the idea.)
Harvard Business School Case Study (Score:2)
"Nokia and Sony: Companies that fucked themselves and pissed off their customers."
Who Owns Your Playstation3? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is like buying a computer and then being told you can only run Windows on it. If want want to risk bricking my system, I should be allowed to do it.
Void the warranty...no problem. But you bought it. You should be able to run any damn system you want on it.
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If I may, I don't believe GeoHot is being charged with cracking his PS3 but with distributing said crack to the rest of the Internet.
You'll find I believe that in the USA, the DMCA prevents both behaviours anyway. That's a congressional problem, not a corporate one. Call your representatives and have these laws changed or repealed if you don't like how they're applied. ... lives in Canada
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Our representatives represent Sony, more than they represent the common man. The DMCA will always favor the rich and mighty, rather than the intelligent and inventive common man on a quest for knowledge.
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If Geohot is reading this.... (Score:4, Informative)
Geohot must use TrueCrypt (Score:2)
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He's certainly savvy enough to, but why should he? He hasn't done anything that violates any constitutional laws.
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Boot from SDHC
OS on microSDHC, configure 4GB as /BOOT / /HOME /ROOT on 16GB microSDHC
and locate
encrypt 16GB
Hollow coins
inside
coin jar
change tray
plastic bag
outside/deniability
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Boot from 16GB microSDHC
Hollow coins
inside
coin jar
Lol, where are the +1 Paranoid points when u need them? =)
-AI
Can a brother get an analogy? (Score:2)
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No one's trying anything anymore. The current genetically modified crops do not produce seeds that can be replanted.
Fourth Amendment? (Score:2)
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
If Geohot has broken the law (DMCA), then how and why does Sony (a private entity) have any right to seize his personal property? If anything, the US Government should be seizing his property as evidence that he committed a federal crime. Last I heard, plaintiffs cannot seize defendants' property in a civil lawsuit. Alas, IANAL...
If Its a Sony VAIO... (Score:2)
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This is getting off-topic, but this slippery slope of criminalizing independent thinking also applies to environmental causes. Protecting the corporate bottom line is a mentality and policy that is not just negatively impacting freedom to tinker with one's bought and paid for toys and creativity, it's also making it damn hard to save resources like clean water.
MPAA news (Score:2)
The root cause for this lack of choice (as in Canada) is lack of proportional representation.
In my opinion, it's more that American voters tend to choose whom to vote for based in large part on TV news coverage, and the movie studios own TV news [pineight.com]. Issues on which movie studios are thought to disagree with the public almost never get news stories, nor do candidates whose platform would reduce movie studios' ability to earn profits and rents [wikipedia.org].
Huh? (Score:2)
The root cause for this lack of choice (as in Canada) is lack of proportional representation.
In my opinion, it's more that American voters tend to choose whom to vote for based in large part on TV news coverage, and the movie studios own TV news [pineight.com]. Issues on which movie studios are thought to disagree with the public almost never get news stories, nor do candidates whose platform would reduce movie studios' ability to earn profits and rents [wikipedia.org].
You should have read this portion of the AC's comment:
In the USA you have effectively two choices.
The Democrats, who side with "the creators, artists, etc." and are thus for a strong copyright protection framework
or
The Republicans, who side with the business and are thus for a strong copyright protection framework.
Which means that it doesn't matter if you choose whom to vote for based on TV news coverage, use a Ouija Board, or by reading chicken entrails.
There is no choice - both parties are for the same thing, as far as copyright laws go.
When is the last time the winner of a major election in the USA was someone not from the Democrat or Republican parties?
It doesn't matter what the news coverage is of any candidate, if they all support the same position.
The GOP might side with the CEA (Score:2)
it doesn't matter if you choose whom to vote for based on TV news coverage, use a Ouija Board, or by reading chicken entrails.
If contra-MPAA news sources were more popular among the general public, the major parties would have to cater to fans of contra-MPAA news sources. For example, the Republicans might side with businesses manufacturing consumer electronics and be thus for a strong protection of fair use, and the Democrats might side with independent or non-commercial authors and artists and be thus for a strong protection of fair use.
both parties are for the same thing, as far as copyright laws go.
And the MPAA dictates this thing through its control of news. If something were to break the
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All Democrats are not equal just as all Republicans are not equal. If the citizens of other states would take IA's and WA's lead and take away the ability of the winners of elections to draw the districting lines a lot of that would change. Likewise going with a top two primary system like we have in WA inevitably provides for the more moderate of the two candidates winning in districts which are essentially one party only. We've yet to have an election go to the more extreme candidate since we switched ove
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There are more than two parties.
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Very rarely do people from third parties ever get elected. When they do, rarely (never?) do they have enough control in the House or Senate to effect changes or stop things that Republicans and Democrats are both supporting.
Voting third party may get them in office, but seems about as effective as peeing in a pool the size of Texas. Sure, you can do it, but will anyone notice?
Re:Insane (Score:5, Insightful)
The root cause of our clusterfuck of a political system is money. People don't win elections unless they outspend their opponents, so they have to sell themselves to the highest bidder to get campaign funds. Once they're in office, it's time to pay the piper. American politics are dominated by special interests. Same reason real budget reform isn't happening: every little cut you make is going to piss off at least one of the monied interest groups that got you into office. What do you do? Cut things that benefit people who have no money, like public assistance programs. Poor people have no money and usually don't vote, so they're easy to fuck over.
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The root cause is lack of proportional outrage
And what causes lack of proportional outrage? Lack of proportional coverage in the mainstream news.
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Oh, how many protests have you organized?
I used to have a web site exposing Disney's lobbying for copyright term extension and anticircumvention legislation, and I promoted it in my signature on a few forums where I was active.
How many letter campaigns have you participated in?
I've participated in several action.eff.org campaigns.
How many RIAA/MPAA products are you showing interest in by either purchasing or pirating?
I follow freeganism [tiny.cc] with the products of several MAFIAA companies: I'll consume it only if it's already paid for.
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Responsibility starts with you and me
I agree completely! Responsibility starts with the two of you. Now get on it!