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Android Emulation (Games) Google Sony Games

Google Pulls PSX4Droid For Sony's Xperia Play 140

Posted by timothy
from the you-must-go-through-these-hoops dept.
tlhIngan writes "Google has apparently pulled an Apple and pulled PSX4Droid (a PlayStation emulator) from the Marketplace, citing 'policy violations' for it reason. It's believed that Sony's Xperia Play (aka Playstation Phone) release was behind the move. Strangely, FPSE is still on the Marketplace."
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Google Pulls PSX4Droid For Sony's Xperia Play

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  • !apple (Score:1, Insightful)

    by svirre (39068)

    I have no problems with Google policing the android market, in fact it might be good if they did more of that to prevent rouge apps from appearing there. The key difference between android and iOS is that you can get your apps from other sources than android market so the devs of PSX4Droid can just host the app at some other server and they are in business again.

    • by ZiakII (829432)
      Yep, I am sure it will go on the amazon market. Although personally I never understood using these emulators on phones. They are god awful with the lack of any real buttons on the phone. Also the emulation is usually terrible, for any consoles SNES+.
      • As someone who enjoyed playing emulated games on his 1st gen ipod nano's touchwheel (16 bit color 176x132 1.5" LCD, 32 KHz ARM), I have to disagree. My 3.7" 1.2 Ghz Droid Incredible plays games wonderfully.
      • by Anonymous Coward

        They are god awful with the lack of any real buttons on the phone.

        I agree that playing "traditional" games on a touch screen with virtual buttons is a joke. However, it's possible to sync up a Wii remote(/classic controller) with most Android phones, and for devices with physical keyboards, you have solutions like the Game Gripper.

      • Thing is, with Android it's extremely easy to get a peripheral up and running. There's an app that hooks your wiimote right into the keyboard subsystem, and it Just Works (at least with those emulators sophisticated enough to rely on android's input system rather than rolling their own - sadly, the best Amiga and C64 emulators don't. Wish yongzh would take a look at those).

      • by Haeleth (414428)

        They are god awful with the lack of any real buttons on the phone.

        Maybe you should choose your phone more carefully then. Mine has plenty of real buttons, including a fairly usable D-pad.

    • And who gets to decide what is a 'rogue app' Me ? You? Some marketing guy or beancouter?

      Don't forget too that not all allow 3rd party application stores so depending on your carrier/phone combination that may not be an option for you.

      • He said "rouge" app. So, apps that make you blush. As good a litmus as any.

      • Name one Android phone that doesn't let you sideload applications.

        Oh wait, you can't. Because phones *must* allow you to sideload applications. Otherwise, they won't pass the Android compatibility test suite, and can no longer be called an Android phone - and, more critically, can't bundle any of Google's applications like the market, gmail, maps, etc.

        But yes, you could have a non-Android phone/device that is *based* on Android that doesn't allow sideloading of apps (like the B&N nook for example).

        • Are three OK? (Score:5, Informative)

          by tepples (727027) <tepples AT gmail DOT com> on Saturday April 02, 2011 @07:48PM (#35696776) Homepage Journal

          Name one Android phone that doesn't let you sideload applications.

          Motorola Backflip, HTC Aria, Samsung Captivate, and other Android-powered phones sold in AT&T stores all hide the "Unknown sources" checkbox from the end user.

          • Friend of mine is on AT&T with an Android phone. There is a way to sideload apps, but it more or less *requires* terminal use (either on the phone or through ADB).

            Yes, it's stupid, but it probably allows them to get around that requirement.

            • by tepples (727027)

              There is a way to sideload apps, but it more or less *requires* terminal use (either on the phone or through ADB).

              But doesn't one have to register as a developer to be able to download the Android Debug Bridge drivers from AT&T's web site?

              • No clue about downloading them from AT&T's website. But adb is an open protocol, with freely available drivers.

                • by tepples (727027)
                  As I understand it:
                  1. The freely available drivers have to be modified to recognize different manufacturer IDs.
                  2. Modifying a driver invalidates its digital signature.
                  3. Installing a driver on Windows Vista 64-bit or Windows 7 64-bit that has not been signed with a certificate from a CA trusted by Microsoft requires rebooting a PC into a noticeably inconvenient "test mode".
                  4. Getting your own certificate from a CA trusted by Microsoft costs hundreds of USD per year.

                  What did I miss?

                  • There are a couple of other solutions - still far from perfect, but workable. The best, of course, is to stop using windows, or at least stop using a version of windows that requires signed drivers. Failing that, you should still be able to install Linux onto a virtualbox VM and attach the phone to the VM.

                    • by tepples (727027)

                      The best, of course, is to stop using windows

                      And do what for other applications that you use and which fail in Wine?

                      or at least stop using a version of windows that requires signed drivers.

                      Do you mean downgrade to Windows XP or downgrade to 32-bit Windows 7?

                      Failing that, you should still be able to install Linux onto a virtualbox VM and attach the phone to the VM.

                      For now, at least until Oracle takes down the non-free Extension Pack allowing the VM to communicate with USB devices in the outside world.

                    • by tepples (727027)

                      I've found replacements for all the applications I need.

                      And I've found several cases where the Linux version is crippled, such as an NES emulator whose Windows version supports debugging the emulated ROM but whose Linux version does not.

                      I seem to recall that USB 1.1 support is included in the open source VirtualBox code.

                      Will ADB sideloading even work over USB 1.1 as opposed to 2.0? And how big can Android apps be?

                    • And I've found several cases where the Linux version is crippled, such as an NES emulator whose Windows version supports debugging the emulated ROM but whose Linux version does not.

                      That's rather interesting. If anything, I would expect it to be the other way around.

                      Will ADB sideloading even work over USB 1.1 as opposed to 2.0? And how big can Android apps be?

                      I see no reason why it wouldn't. I don't know offhand if there is an artificially imposed size limit when using adb install, other than the available space on the device of course. Apps with lots of assets (like big games) will typically have a reasonably sized apk, and then download tons of data to your sdcard. I bought one game that required ~1GB of data to be downloaded to the sdcard - but I knew this was the case before

                    • I think his point is still valid, in a sense that, once you get to drivers and signatures, it's no longer the phone being locked, it's Windows being locked (as evidenced by the fact that it's a non-issue in Linux).

                    • by HiThere (15173)

                      And do what for other applications that you use and which fail in Wine?

                      Find alternate applications. I'll grant it may take a bit of searching. And transfer your data to an open format. The longer you wait, the more expensive it will end up being.

                      It took years to switch my wife, because she was using music score editing software, and now we've got the problem of converting the data. But the problem is no longer getting worse. (Or it wouldn't be, except that the computers with the other OSs are getting older, and thus nearer to failure. When they die, unconverted data will

                    • by tepples (727027)

                      Find alternate applications.

                      I have found this easier said than done. Case in point: Here is a list of ten applications [slashdot.org]. What is the free alternative to each, or even the Linux-native non-free alternative?

                    • by HiThere (15173)

                      I agree it's often easier said than done. So what? As long as you let a proprietary program hold your data hostage, the situation will continue to get worse and more expensive.

                      As I suggested it took me years to find a suitable application. But this didn't mean I stopped looking. If I'd found it earlier it would have saved a bunch of time, cost, and effort, but I didn't. (Actually, I think the score editors only got good enough last year, but I wasn't watching all the time.) But now the situation has s

                  • Also - I wasn't aware that modifying the inf for a driver would invalidate the signature. But then again, I haven't really looked into how drivers are signed in much detail either.

                  • by exomondo (1725132)

                    What did I miss?

                    The fact that you've deliberately made it sound more difficult and convoluted that it is by using the solution of fitting a square peg to a round hole. The logical solution would be to use linux or a linux VM, then that lops off 75% of your issues.

              • A quick Google or two shows a mix of solutions, Samsung being roughly to use the Samsung ADB driver then CLI, Motorola being more difficult upfront. Maybe someone using a phone on AT&T can comment more. I'm especially curious since Norton Security on Android updates outside of the Android market, if the hidden setting becomes available when Norton wants to update the app.

                Just another reason to not use AT&T IMHO

              • No one would *ever* post a file needed to make full use of one's own property somewhere on them thar interwebs... ;)

            • The one exception is the SE Xperia X10--it can be reflashed with a debranded firmware that allows sideloading, as well as ditching all ATT crapware...no hacks/terminal use required. Still, ATT doesn't exactly encourage this.
              • Well, most Android phones (even, to an extent, newer Motorola models) can have new system images put on them.

                • Well, most Android phones (even, to an extent, newer Motorola models) can have new system images put on them.

                  Well, all I know is that if I can't get Cyanogenmod 7 on a particular device, I'm probably not going to buy that device. I've learned one thing: don't depend upon the carriers for system updates. They'll happily leave you hanging for months before rolling out a new OTA, and then ... all you get is a hacked version of the stock firmware. Yeah, that's right ... hacked, with necessary features removed, and garbage software added. And they have the audacity to complain about third-party ROMs like Cyanogenmod, t

          • And adb install will still work, even if that's true.

            • Granted, the parent post I originally replied to was talking about third party markets - which I believe hiding the "Unknown sources" setting would prevent from working.

          • lies. its very easy on a backflip at least....i have one. even back when there was no way to root it, ya go to motorola website, download usb drivers, install the sdk from developers.android.com,make sure enable usb debugging is checked, plug phone in, fire up a command prompt and type "adb install whatthefuckever.apk." we are talking MAYBE 10 min to set up first time and 30 seconds every time after that. anyone who is unable to do this is retarded. and at&t can suck my dick. the day i could root my pho

            • ya go to motorola website, download usb drivers

              I'm aware of using ADB to sideload. But I was under the impression that one had to go to AT&T's web site and register as a developer in order to download USB drivers.

        • phones *must* allow you to sideload applications

          Today.

        • But yes, you could have a non-Android phone/device that is *based* on Android that doesn't allow sideloading of apps (like the B&N nook for example).

          And you could even count them as "real" Androids for marketshare.

        • by nurb432 (527695)

          Moto Atrix. Need more examples?

          And yes, you can currently 'fix' that on most everything if you are a little technical but, the apps ( and eventually the knowledge, if you look at what is happening to GeoHot ) to do that with will be considered rogue.

          • You can't use adb install to install applications on the atrix?

            If it's like the phones others have mentioned, it's just a matter of the signed drivers not being readily available for that device. But to be honest, that's only an issue because of the windows stupidity of not letting you (easily) use unsigned drivers.

            I hardly think you can consider "adb install" rogue knowledge

            • by nurb432 (527695)

              If its use bypasses ANY of the carriers intended restrictions, yes, i would consider it "rogue knowledge".

              Now, that doesn't mean i wouldn't do it myself and that it *cant* be done if you step outside the box, but that wasn't the point i was trying to make.

              • The thing is that AT&T hasn't restricted adb install. If they had, then google would revoke their license to redistribute the google apps, and (hopefully) no-one would use the phone because it didn't have android market.

                It's pretty simple - if you want Google's blessing, you can't restrict/lock down the adb protocol - which means you must allow installing applications via adb.

                Now, the real problem would be if they did decide to remove all the Google apps and the Android branding, and went off and comple

                • by nurb432 (527695)

                  Most consumers don't care if they are locked, which is why carriers can get away with it :). They are quite happy with a toaster, and the idea of 'banning rogue information' would help keep things that way.

                  But with luck, those of us that do want to do more will still be able to for a long time.

                • But then again, take a look at all the people who buy the locked down iPhones.... my optimism might be unwarranted in this case, unfortunately.

                  Probably not. Take Google Nav away from the millions of people (like me) who can't find their way out of the bathroom, and you'll find yourself facing torches and pitchforks.

    • by PopeRatzo (965947) *

      in fact it might be good if they did more of that to prevent rouge apps from appearing there.

      I think Apple users might be more interested in the rouge apps.

      It does bring out the cheekbones after all, and when used properly with a carefully-blended shadow it makes the eyes just pop!

    • in fact it might be good if they did more of that to prevent rouge apps

      Yes, and in fact they might want to get rid of those mascara apps while their at it.

  • I really think this is Sony pointing out android market ToS violations in order to get this pulled from Market ASAP. Smells like Sony's war on piracy. psx4droid has been in the android market for about a year without complaints from google...

    • by gblackwo (1087063)
      A lot of emulators avoid doing anything illegal, or ToS violations by having the user provide their own bios image. Is this not the case?
      • Probably, but does it matter? (to them)

    • by yeshuawatso (1774190) * on Sunday April 03, 2011 @12:09AM (#35697780) Journal

      Maybe not piracy since without downloading the giant ISO files to play PS1 games, the emulator is just a nice file explorer shell for OI File Manger. Trademark infringement is more likely.

      See here: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4003:a7trs0.2.13 [uspto.gov]

      Sony has a registered trademark for PSX that pretty much includes anything dealing with electronics.

      Interestingly though, Nintendo owns the patent for emulation of games on mobile devices: Patent #6,672,963 [uspto.gov]

      Based on Nintendo's patent, it will be 2024 before we can emulate on mobile devices freely, so ALL emulators could be removed from the market for patent infringement. But then again, there is no criminal charges for violating a patent, just civil penalties if the patent holder decides to file suit. I believe most of the emulator developers don't reside in the US, so I can see why their out of Nintendo's reach.

      • Interestingly though, Nintendo owns the patent for emulation of games on mobile devices: Patent #6,672,963 [uspto.gov]

        Which is, in itself, insane. Being able to patent an entire category of technological development (thereby effectively suppressing development of that technology for decades) is the primary failure of the U.S. patent system. Let Nintendo develop, demonstrate and patent their own emulator. Then sue people that infringe upon that particular implementation. The patent system does not serve its Constitutionally-mandated function when patent holders can hold a gun to the heads of anyone trying to develop product

  • I know that most nintendo emulators and such are able to work without using the system's actual BIOS, but doesn't PS emulation require shipping with Sony's copyright-laden BIOS? I know that it's pretty easy to rip the BIOS from your own PS, but I doubt that this app supports doing this, and probably just ships with the BIOS.
    • It does not.
    • I played around with ePSXe for a bit and I hadda go search for a bios that matched the region/machine of the games i'd play. Ofcourse, the discussion board where i found the emulator info pointed me to a directory of relevant materials. I'd assume that a trivial matter like finding and copying the bios to the proper location isnt going to be reason enough for this dev to argue with Google or Sony for that matter.

      A recent development in a similar Sony domain led to the dev of a popular PS3 file manager to
  • I thought the patents on the PS1 expired...& what of just about every other *4droid emulator?
    • Hahaha. Patents expiring, things entering the public domain. Haha. That's a good one. Tell me, how's the weather in the 19th century?

      • by Auroch (1403671)
        + N for n-telligent or n-sightful, or + X for x-traordinary.

        seriously. need. mod. points. for. teh funzors.
      • Patents expire all the time, as they still have relatively sane durations. It's copyright that's been extended ad infinitum. You should get your terms straight before making snarky comments.

        • by russotto (537200)

          Patents expire all the time, as they still have relatively sane durations.

          Too bad that whenever a computer changes form factor, you can get a new patent based on doing everything you did on the old form factor with the new form factor. So by the time the patent on game emulation "on a mobile device", we'll all be using some other sort of device. For the sake of argument say it's direct retinal projection; then Nintendo will just get a new patent on game emulation "on a device with a direct retinal project

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 02, 2011 @06:46PM (#35696470)

    ..you'd know that PSX4Droid was pulled from the markert for GPL violations, which is why FPSE is still on the Market

    • by matt_gaia (228110)

      Please.... we all know that's to rational of a reason to be viable on /. There has to be some evil, underhanded reason they did this.....

    • No it has to be because Sony is evil and therefore validating my reason not to pay for software!
      • No it has to be because Sony is evil and therefore validating my reason not to pay for software!

        Sony became evil after they slept with the Devil ... that is, big media. They were my heros after the original Betamax decision was handed down decades ago. Now ... huh. I don't have any Sony hardware in my house anymore, and probably never will.

        • In my mind Sony is the same as ever. They've always been a mix of good and bad ideas. For instance I thought Mini-Discs were awesome but it had its own DRM issues. I don't think anyone can take away the fact the PS1 and especially the PS2 were totally awesome devices even if a lot of their hardware isn't that great. I think DRM is only more noticeable now because it's easier for them to implement and I think all companies have been getting away with trampling over the right to make copies of media you purch
  • by SkankinMonkey (528381) on Saturday April 02, 2011 @07:13PM (#35696596)
    While I don't like the decision to remove the app from the store, and hope google clarifies the reasoning (at least to the publisher) it's not the end of the world for most Android devices since they can install the app manually. Neither iOS or Windows 7 Mobile allow for this as far as I know. And yes, some android devices don't either (mostly at&t phones) but, for now, they are the exception to the rule.
    • and hope google clarifies the reasoning

      The one objection sticking out like a sore thumb to me in the screenshot was "Find Games With ROM Buddy". Applications on Android Market MUST NOT include their own internal app stores. That would at least be consistent with taking down Kongregate and not taking down other emulators that lack a ROM acquisition button.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by oakgrove (845019)
      The hyperbole in the summary says Google is "pulling an Apple". I disagree. In order 4 that 2 b actually true, google would have had to disable side loading from android. That is the crucial difference. With apple you have no choice other than to jailbreak. With android I can install anything I want whether it is in the market or not as long as it exists. At&t notwithstanding. Pardon the number subsitutions as I dictated this with the voice recognition on my Droid.
    • by Lehk228 (705449)
      If you want freedom to load apps as you please look at blackberry OS. There is the official app market "app world" but the blackberry browser fully supports download and install from a website, which presumably would easilly allow purchasable apps outside the store with no extra software on the phone, just an http login to access a download link and maybe a tagged exe that will let them know if you pirate
    • by fermion (181285) on Saturday April 02, 2011 @09:52PM (#35697310) Homepage Journal
      Jailbroken iPhons, which is no hard to do can load anything. Apple cannot remove anything from your phone without your knowledge, so even banned apps stay on. This is not true with google. Previous versions of iPhone do run the latest iOS. Something not true of Android(yes my 3GS has the latest iOS). The OS is no held from certain users because they did not buy from the right OEM. Apple is not going to sue users because they bough phones from OEM without proper liscense. Apple may have silly rules, but at least the rules are initially sated. One rule is Apple decides what goes in the App store. Google has no such rule, except when it does.
      • It's just that if you have a jailbroken Iphone, or any platform the maker desperately tries to lock down, you never know if it's going to be bricked when you wake up tomorrow. Steve Jobs probably feels that you deserve it.

      • by brkello (642429)

        If you are talking about jailbreaking to get the iPhone you want...you can't really compare it to an unexploited Android and call it a fair comparison.

    • by cbhacking (979169)

      Windows Phone 7 does not allow side-loading by default, but there are several ways to enable it anyhow. The most legit option is to get a marketplace developer account, which costs a bit of money but also gives the right to publish on the marketplace. At the other end, there's ChevronWP7, which is still available on phone hacker sites. In between there are things like using LG's built-in registry editor to tweak the "allow sideload" option.

      There is, for example, a NES emulator which is not in the WP7 market

      • Well, Apple's developer subscription plan also allows you to execute code, so technically the same goes for iPhone. The only thing I'm interested in is whether or not there is an officially sanctioned way for users to run programs on their device without having to pay a subscription. Putting your faith in Jailbreaks is awfully dangerous, as many an iPhone user has found out.

  • So how do I get my refund?

  • by Wovel (964431)

    How is this pulling an Apple. Google has not only pulled Applications before, they have pulled them off of users devices.

  • Just more of the same shit.

    Anyone remember Bleem?

  • I believe that PSX4DROID hasn't respect all the rules [no GPL, no protected names or logo, no promotion of piracy] we respect, and the worst is the integrated link to ROM from their software... which is purely illegal.

    source [xda-developers.com]

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