Sony's Case Against Geohot Has Been Settled 469
matt_gaia writes "According to Sony Computer Entertainment America, they have reached a settlement with GeoHot (George Hotz), where Hotz has consented to a permanent injunction, but still denies any wrong-doing in the whole affair. Sony said, 'Our motivation for bringing this litigation was to protect our intellectual property and our consumers. We believe this settlement and the permanent injunction achieve this goal.'"
I wonder if Anonymous will proceed with their anti-Sony campaign.
Oh, stuff it. (Score:5, Insightful)
'Our motivation for bringing this litigation was to protect our intellectual property and our consumers.'
If SCEA was ever interested in protecting consumers, they never would have brought suit against GeoHot in the first place.
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:5, Insightful)
That part is so they can act like part of the motivation is so people don't write hacks to their modded systems that lets them cheat at the on-line games.
I'm of the opinion that it's 99% protecting of their IP/locking down the console, and 1% protecting consumers ... and even that only as a PR thing.
Re:Wow.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm amazed at the comments on the linked Playstation page.
Some folks are (almost) calling for Hotz' head. And people think Apple's fans drink the KoolAid...
You see people identify with products all over the place - and if you look closely at your life, you may be doing it too.
I've seen people base their identities on what they have; which is quite a childish thing to do if you ask a developmental psychologist - basing your identity on what you do means you're stuck in adolescence by the way.
Go to a photo site and you'll see people get all riled up if you say anything against "their" brand of camera. Same goes for power tools - you'll see Ridgid and DeWalt fanboys.
Cars - same thing.
Apple's fanboys have nothing on the Harley Davidson fanboys.
Re:So... win/win right? (Score:5, Insightful)
>> Sony gets to keep their closed system
Right. Because when Hotz settled, all the keys magically disappeared from the systems of the hackers who had already downloaded them - and fail0verflow ceased to exist.
Bullied into settlement. Nice. (Score:4, Insightful)
When you have a super-heavyweight company like Sony coming after you, issues such as "merit" simply don't matter as much as how much hurt they can put on you.
Meanwhile, Sony wouldn't have settled so easily if they didn't have something to lose in all of this. I hope our "hero" Geohot was aware of this. It was kind of like our hero, "Lindows" who fought back against Microsoft and won, for the most part, by threatening Microsoft's trademark over Windows. So I have to wonder if anyone else can pick up this ball where Geohot left it. It's not like the secret isn't out.
Re:Wow.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:2, Insightful)
As opposed to Slashdot, which isn't?
Just because you agree with them doesn't mean they're NOT rabid fanboys.
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Their motivation doesn't matter. The principle remains - Sony is trying to keep people from using their hardware how they want. While it's completely within Sony's rights to deny use of their network, the fact is that they flat-out stole a feature that was advertised as a major selling point for the hardware and are trying to blame one hacker for their own misdeeds.
I've made this analogy before but I'll make it again. If someone buys a hammer and files the ends down into sharp spikes, then goes out and starts hitting people in the head with their weaponized tool, you prosecute them for causing bodily harm to other people, not for the act of modifying a hammer. Maybe you can take the modification into account as evidence of premeditation for the actual crime, but you don't treat it as a crime itself. Same thing with the PS3. If people modify their PS3s and then use the modifications to play pirated games, game makers can go after them in civil court for pirating games. However, it should never be permitted to pro^H^Hersecute people for modifying what they own.
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:5, Insightful)
I responded many years ago before the rootkit by not buying Sony products and by recommending Samsung, LG, or even Vizio screens for clients who need large wall-mounted screens in their offices, conference rooms, etc.
I started avoided Sony when I found their replacement parts costs to be obscene when I wanted to repair my DVP-S360 DVD player - I paid a premium for the Sony for the feature set (mainly the full-feature front-panel controls) and it turned out the entire run was bad and became known for failing just after warranty. I priced out replacement parts but by then competitors were offering DVD players that could play various mpeg4 videos and the part I needed cost more than competitor offerings, and I could even get a Sony DVD player for a few dollars more.
Another thing is in a lot of Sony products they use resistors in place of fuses, making troubleshooting more time consuming. Between that and cold solder joints in their televisions, it was obvious Sony decided to just start phoning it in, earning sales now based on their past reputation for being innovators and a quality manufacturer.
Now they engage in shameless malfeasance (installing rootkits on hard drives of legitimate paying customers), engage in fraud (sell product based on features, e.g., OtherOS, and then take it away) and then attack the consumer directly when they try to take back control of their own hardware and help others enjoy their right of first sale.
Then, in various products (from MP3 players to notebooks to cameras) they kept pushing their stupid MemoryStick form factor, despite the existence of very workable existing standards (CF, MMC/SD, or even XD), an obvious means to increase revenue through their own costly proprietary (yet slow and low capacity) sole-sourced accessories.
When did this pattern start? Remember when Sony used to be pro consumer (e.g., sony walkman, VCRs and the betamax case, dual deck cassette systems, etc)? Did their anti-consumer agenda start when Sony bought up music labels?
Frak Sony. They're not too large to fail and if enough people say ENOUGH, they will either fail or they will change their ways and bring back the Sony we once knew.
Re:Wow.... (Score:3, Insightful)
All the commenters have PSN accounts and are reading what appears to be the official PS blog. In other words, they must be in KoolAid up to the ears.
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony could help but dismiss as fast as possible once they realized they didn't even have a shred of a case in california. I'd bet money the settlement involves paying off all of Hotz's legal fees.
It cracks me up that they state that hotz accepted a permanent injunction as a "loss" but it doesn't even say what the injunction was for.
So Sony basically ran the hell away on this. I'm actually quite surprised if Hotz agreed to keep this settlement private, as it would do wonders to not have it private.
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it's because they're people who have spent large amounts of money on a PS3 so that they can do one particular thing with it: play fucking video games. Nothing Hotz has done has helped them in any way, and most of it has hurt them. His original hack led to the OtherOS removal. Most of these people didn't really care then, although some pretended to.
Then came the real working hack. First we got slews of updates as Sony tried to stay one step ahead, which was just a giant headache for people who just wanted to play a damn game. Then cheating became rampant in all the major online games, something we used a console specifically to avoid. Then the Anonymous DDoS against PSN which meant we couldn't even sign in.
Now, you could (rightfully) claim that Hotz wasn't responsible for any of this. Sony removed OtherOS, Sony pushed out the endless updates, other wanna be crackers wrote the cheats, and Anonymous ran the DDoS without Hotz consent. But as a gamer, I don't give a fuck. A system that I truly enjoyed has become a greater and greater headache, and it all ties back directly to Hotz. And I, like a lot of gamers, just want it to go away.
Re:Bullied into settlement. Nice. (Score:1, Insightful)
If Anonymous was worth a shit, they'd have done something to help Geohot fight the legal battle until he won on the merits, instead of just throwing a tantrum at a Sony server.
If Anonymous were composed of adults rather than whiny children (including whiny children trapped in adult bodies), maybe they would have done something other than thrown a tantrum.
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:4, Insightful)
The rational nature of your logic is truly astounding sir.
When presented with a rational explanation of how an invested but uninterested third party would desire simply that disruptions to their service be resolved, you've parried with the Booo-fucking-hoooo defense. Bravo. Surely this sets the stage for further meaningful discussion.
For the record, I totally agree with the GP. I bought a PS3 for a streamlined walled garden online gaming experience. I don't want script kiddies messing with my games, and I don't want to have to sit through a 20 minute update process whenever I want to play. Which, as a result of my twice a month gaming habit, happens to be every goddamn time I turn the thing on.
That's just a terribly poor analogy (Score:5, Insightful)
Your analogy doesn't work. In some cases, it is illegal to modify something you own. Going with the weapon theme, a sawed-off shotgun comes to mind. Even if you have a legitimate reason to make the modification, it's still illegal, in the US, to reduce the length of a shotgun to less than 26" overall and an 18" barrel. Doesn't matter if such a modification could make the weapon more useful during legal use.
Wait a minute - you're comparing wanting to use product features that were advertised by the manufacturer and then taken away, to something that is specifically prohibited by Federal law?
Shotguns are not advertised as having the feature of being able to saw off the barrels to a shorter length. Many people do saw off the barrels to the legal length, but no shotgun manufacturer advertises this as a selling point, regardless of how useful it might be.
Sony advertised that the PS3 product could both run "Other Operating Systems" such as linux, and it could also use the PlayStation Network. Those are both useful features, and they are not violations of Federal law (which your shotgun example would be).
They then updated the software on the product (PS3) such that you could either choose to retain the Other OS functionality, or the PSN functionality, but not both. That is stealing, or if it's not, it's at least the intentional introduction of a defect into the product. Customers should either retain all the advertised functionality of the product, or be compensated for the loss of that functionality.
Here's a car analogy:
You buy a new Toyota Boringmobile. It gets cold where you live, so you buy it based on Toyota advertising that it has heated seats. They also advertise that is has the ability to safely transport you and your family from place to place. Those are two advertised features: 1. Safe transportation, 2. heated seats.
You pay money for the car. Toyota gives you title to, and possession of, the car. You drive it home. You are happy.
Toyota sends you a notice: "Bring your Boringmobile into any Toyota dealership for a free service to make sure it continues to fulfill it's promise of safe (if rather dull) transportation". There's a recall on the tires or something like that.
You visit your Toyota dealership, and they replace the tires with new ones which work exactly like the old ones, but you needed to do that for safety's sake - Toyota's notice to you more or less said so. At the same time, Toyota disables the heated seats.
Wait a minute! You paid for heated seats! But they don't work any more. Toyota says "Well, you agreed to that in the terms of service - it was on page 38 of the agreement you agreed to by driving to the dealership"
But wait a minute, contract law doesn't work like that - they can't take features back without compensating you (Generally in a contract, "consideration" i.e. money, has to change hands in exchange for taking or providing goods and/or services). You take Toyota to court (most likely as part of a class action), and get either money or your heated seat functionality back.
What has happened here is that Sony has stolen functionality from the owners of a physical product that was bought and paid for.
The proper shotgun analogy is that you had a double-barreled shotgun and you could shoot both barrels, or just use them to store two shotgun rounds if you chose to never fire the shotgun. After an update, your Sony shotgun will now only fire the first barrel. The second barrel is now just for storing a spare round. Don't like that your gun doesn't work as advertised any more? Sorry, it had to be done so that you could continue to use Sony ammunition. Except that it didn't, did it?
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Anything Sony did to their customers is Sony's fault. Period.
Re:Wow.... (Score:4, Insightful)
I saw someone else post this point elsewhere on the thread.
Gamers want a smooth gaming experience. Most gamers expect that to entail an online network free from hackers exploiting games and not being required to sit through 20-30 minute updates every two weeks. The majority of gamers see Hotz as opening doors for hackers/exploiters and as being responsible for Sony's prevention measures.
Outside of the pro-Linux "software should be free" crowds, most people just want to see Hotz go away.
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Dear Sony staffer (Score:4, Insightful)
And mine too, apparently. Really cowardly way to go about supporting the company, guys.
You made an unsubstantiated, inflamatory implication in your post, accusing Sony of astroturfing their forums. As if there aren't plenty of Sony fanboys who would do that for Sony, for free.
Your comment was modded 40% Troll (and 40% Interesting and 10% Insightful, so far) as a result. You seriously think it's Sony employees/fans who are modding your Slashdot post down?
I'd speculate that the Troll mods on your post have nothing to do with supporting Sony.
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:5, Insightful)
They had a reason: they didn't want to support it any more.
Yes, that is a reason. It's not an acceptable reason at all. They billed OtherOS as a feature when they sold the console. Then they took it away. I don't give a damn what their reasons were, that's fraudulent.
Re:Oh, stuff it. (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't see what any of this has to do with Hotz, or the people who bought the console for OtherOS. You're not the only person in the world, no matter how much you paid for your system. Sony fucked the dog on this one by removing OtherOS, Hotz restored his PS3 to the way he wanted to use it, sorry his work around broke what you wanted but Sony did it. And all the bitching in the world won't make it otherwise.
I'm sure I'll be modded as a troll or flamembait as Sony is the company of the antichrist (or what ever) on Slashdot. But really Sony's biggest mistake in this instance was to allow people to hack the PS3 in the first place.
I don't own a PS3, so I really don't care one way or the other. But I thought the intended use for the PS3 was to play games. The OtherOS option was a nice added feature that I guess the XBox and Wii do not have. It sounds to me like a small number of people "abused" the option and made it a bigger pain in the ass than it was worth for Sony and somehow interfered with the bulk of their customers, the gamers. If Hotz wanted to hack his PS3, great. Hell, it's his so who cares if he uses it as a boat anchor. But he didn't stop there, did he? He made his work available to the public.So Sony could go after the single point of this issue, Hotz, or try go after everyone with a hacked box that tried to cheat at the games on their servers.While the OP is obviously not the only one who bought the PS3, he's part of the majority of consumers that did. Which also happens to be the group that are using it for its intended purpose.
If I modified a Toyota in some way that it ran the way I wanted it to, but somehow generated an EMI pulse that shutdown other cars, including yours anytime I was within 2 miles, would be pissed at Toyota? This would somehow be Toyota's fault? And fuck you and all you other whiny bastards, you're not the only drivers in the world. I got my car running the way I want it to, that's the important thing.
Maybe people should be pissed at the dip shits that tried to cheat with modified consoles rather than the company that was nice enough to allow the system to be hacked to begin with.
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