GameStop Opening Deus Ex Boxes, Removing Free Game Coupon 343
DisKurzion writes "A leaked GameStop memo indicates that employees are to open the regular PC release of Deus Ex: Human Revolution and discard the included OnLive coupon. From the article: 'GameStop spokesperson Beth Sharum confirmed the practice, telling Ars that "Square Enix packed the competitor's coupon with our DXHR product without our prior knowledge and we did pull these coupons.'"
Tampering (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Tampering (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh you can bet this will be quite actionable unless there is a contract agreement to the contrary.
Re:Tampering (Score:5, Insightful)
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Used to? They still do. The last time I went in there was to buy the last Wolfenstein (2009). The very day it came out, yet they someone only had the display copy for PC. The box was on display, the game was shoved in a paper envelope and filed away in a drawer. They expected me to pay full price for an opened product. I walked across the parking lot and got it from Wal-Mart instead, where they had dozens sitting on the shelf. I didn't have to put up with any sales pitches over frequent shopper cards or sub
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I didn't have to put up with any sales pitches over frequent shopper cards or subscriptions to lame-ass magazines either.
I wish there was a code word or short phrase for "I don't mean to be rude, and I know you are required by your employer to ask, but stop trying to upsell me or get me to sign up for stuff." When I was working there, I'd prefer it when people would just ignore my greeting, which was supposed to be followed up with an annoying sales pitch. I'm not sure others would agree though.
Re:Tampering (Score:4, Funny)
Just start answering in Latvian. If they appear to understand then use medieval French. If they still understand you, they are clearly overqualified for the job.
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Indeed. There are two potential outcomes of this.
A: class action lawsuit.
B: If the game includes a game key to install, OnLive will work with SquareEnix to recognize that number as a valid cupon number.
Hopefully they approach option B. I rather users actually get what they paid for than lawyers dip in a huge percentage of a class action suit's settlement.
I have to say, I have test-played OnLive, and the system is amazing. Only reason I have not bought a single game from them is I like to own a copy I can pl
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Isn't this tampering with a new product?
It's false advertising if they state it's a new product / sealed in box, without informing that it is an "open box" product.
Fortunately for GS; the product is not a food item or medication, so there is no risk that their tampering causes bodily injury or death.. if it were, and they broke the seal on the package before purchase, it would be a federal crime called Tampering with a consumer product.
Re:Tampering (Score:4, Informative)
You do realise that the reason why these rules exist is because products you mention are PERISHABLES? As in they can become fatal when opened in wrong environment, and are sealed to increase their due date.
Medicines are also often controlled substances.
You can be absolutely certain that any product that doesn't fall in that category (or similar category where opening product may cause significant harm to the product itself) can, and often will be opened by retailer if there is a suspicion of something being wrong with package. They absolutely have this right, both legally and contractually with their supplier. You have to be utterly ignorant of how retail works (and why it works the way it does) to claim otherwise.
And no, removing coupons that were put against retailers' desire, and possibly agreements does not fall into this category. And even if they remove the coupons, the game itself is completely unused, and therefore new.
The only thing they may be doing wrong is false advertisement if package includes mention of the coupon, and retailer doesn't specifically mention the lack of this coupon before sale is made.
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No, because in their agreements, they absolutely have the right to open product to inspect it written down.
This is true for almost any major retail agreement, and this is why every retail shop has a shrink wrapper machine in the back.
You've got to be kidding... (Score:5, Interesting)
So... let me get this right.
If you're competing against a fast-growing distribution method that has the potential to completely under-cut your own business model, the best way to do that is to... engage in behaviour that will really piss a good portion of your customers off?
It's not actually the removal of the coupons that bugs me - it's the opening of the game boxes. I know that some retailers do this a lot - fortunately, it's rarer here in the UK than it is in the US. But I really don't like it - I've certainly bought "new" DS games in the past in the US that had saves already on the cartridge (presumably a staff member's).
It's not as if they're just competing against download distribution. I've never bought a game from Amazon or play.com that had been opened before it arrived (well, aside from the time our local post-office staff decided that stealing was fun, but that's another story) - and those are almost always cheaper. Seriously, do these bricks and mortar retailers even want to stay in business?
Actually, IANAL, but is there a legal issue here? If there's a reasonable expectation that every copy of the game includes this coupon and Gamestop are removing it, are they committing fraud or theft or something? Either from the consumer or from Square-Enix? I mean, surely Square-Enix must have a civil case here - and it's almost at the kind of level where it starts to sound criminal (if it happened in the UK at least).
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Re:You've got to be kidding... (Score:5, Informative)
I suppose it depends on whether the coupon is advertised anywhere. If it's advertised as being included with the game - and especially if there's a marking on the game box itself saying "coupon inside" - then there are all kinds of trading standards laws that would be getting broken in the UK. I've no idea whether there are US equivalents.
If the coupon isn't advertised anywhere, then it may be murkier.
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It's iffy... Gamestop could be seen as diminishing the value of the item that they're selling you (specifically by the exact value of the coupon), so if they're selling it at standard price, you could have a legal claim to recover the "damages" done. However, I doubt that the coupon is for more value than the $25 that it takes to file a small-claims action (YMMV, this is Washington State's value). So, really the only option is a class-action suit from anyone who purchased the game and did not receive a coup
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This isn't like how the movie studios can't stop redbox from renting new movies without paying more (since anything they can't get from a distributor, the operators just go buy at a store)...gamestop probably has a contract.
If gamestop was making a free and clear purchase and then reselling the items, they might be ok doing this...but I bet that in exchange for getting a massive discount on the game, they have agreed to some pretty clear terms whi
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So even though the game might be advertising it, I don't believe they can force their advertisement on others (but by the same token, those same game designers are not required to sell their product to Gamestop, or barred from hav
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I would suspect that unless *Gamestop* advertises there is a coupon inside, they are not falsely advertising
The 'false advertising' would be the advertisement that we sell this product, this new game; instead of "We sell an open box copy of this product that has some components removed which were contained in the original product"
Re:You've got to be kidding... (Score:5, Insightful)
The coupon is not a necessary part of the game though. It's an extraneous addition. As I said, one would have a claim, but it's up to a jury/judge to decide if the coupon constitutes a substantial part of purchase interest.
Who gets to decide if the coupon is a "necessary" part of the game? If I was on the fence, and the manufacturer including coupons was what tipped the scales to me buying a new copy of the game, I would call that fairly necessary.
I suppose based on this "not a necessary part" logic; a bookseller could sell you a "new" book and "cut out" the last page.... it's not a "necessary part" of the book, just an extraneous addition; you can still read the book, you just don't get to read the epilogue, or maybe the ending, is all.
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I think there's a legal issue even if it isn't advertised... from Square's pov. Now that word has gotten out that they're doing this, Square could claim that GS's practices are hurting the sales of their game. Not a law broken, as such, but certainly grounds for a civil suit.
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If the coupon isn't advertised anywhere, then it may be murkier.
If the coupon were not advertised anywhere, we on Slashdot would probably not know or care about it.
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There is nothing on the box at all about the coupon.
How do you know Square enix hasn't designed a different box version or sticker to attach to boxes they put a coupon in?
If Gamestop has no qualms against breaking open a sealed box; I have little doubt that they'd mind getting a marker and blacking out any mention of 'coupon'.
But all these things make what they're selling a modified product. If they're selling it as new, with an opened box, they may be running afoul of some consumer protection laws
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No offence, but no retailer in the world will have any problems breaking "sealed boxes". In most cases their supplier will help them get new seals, or they can ship product back as "defective, contents do not match agreement" and get it back sealed. Retailers essentially ALWAYS have a right to break the seal, unless it's an obvious "warranty void if broken" kind of a seal on the product itself (think unscrewing the game cartridge open). Shrink wrap is not that kind of seal, and essentially every retailer ha
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Maybe GameStop doesn't, but if anyone does I think they're courting legal trouble. GameStop doesn't make any specific claims about what's in the sold package, but if what they're advertising is "a boxed copy of DXHR" and it's common knowledge that such a box includes a coupon from the publisher, there's some bad faith going on.
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Maybe GameStop doesn't, but if anyone does I think they're courting legal trouble.
Why?
GameStop doesn't make any specific claims about what's in the sold package, but if what they're advertising is "a boxed copy of DXHR" and it's common knowledge that such a box includes a coupon from the publisher, there's some bad faith going on.
Yes, they do. Their website clearly states what you get in the package. The box itself also makes no mention of the coupon, either.
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Does the website clearly indicate that what you receive is altered from the manufacturer's package?
If it does, I sure don't see it, or any other description of the contents, just a summary of the game itself.
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Unless GameStop clearly states that it's an open box with missing parts, they likely run afoul of the law. There is an implicit warranty that they are selling the complete product as supplied by the manufacturer. The question is if they will be called to task for it. In the U.S., it's doubtful, their action only affects peons. Elsewhere, perhaps.
Re:You've got to be kidding... (Score:4, Interesting)
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But how can they sell it as a new product?
These are now open box games not new games.
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They've been selling opened games as new for a long time. I've heard plenty of stories of employees 'borrowing' new games.
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If they "Borrow" a new game then they "used" it making that a used product. Sounds like they need to be sued for this.
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Why would anyone sue? Best case is you'll get a new, unopened game in exchange - probably the same as if you just took the game back to the store. Then the salesmen try to push the "borrowed" game to someone who doesn't care.
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So you think this is fine?
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I always ask for a new sealed box when I shop there. The box I get is sealed and contains a game disk. If they are resealing them why is that still a new game? Seems like fraud to me.
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IANAL either, but I would expect that GameStop owns the games until they sell them, and can do with them as they wish, given that the games are their property. What they are obligated to do or not to do contractually with the game maker may be a different story.
Would messing with the contents of the game box affect their ability to claim that it's "new"? I genuinely don't know but my expectation of buying a new product would be that it is the product the manufacturer shipped out, no changes, no wear and tear (well, transport bumps), no missing pieces etc. Taking stuff out the box and selling as new is dodgy in my opinion but I don't know the legal stuff here.
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Gamestop has always opened games (Score:5, Informative)
I don't know what the reasoning is, but they do it. They reseal them when they sell them. So it is nothing different for this one. If you demand factory sealed games, Gamestop was never a place you shopped.
Also to note Onlive isn't a distribution method. Onlive is a service where they run the games on their servers and stream you the video. The idea being you don't need to have a good computer to run the game. In reality it sucks badly since you only get a low bitrate 720p steam, meaning it does not look like you get with a high end system, more like with a low end one, and there's interface lag because of the network round trip.
In terms of digital distribution, Gamestop actually is in that business, they purchased Impulse some time ago so they now sell games online as well as in stores.
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I did not know this. I always ask for a sealed game when I shop their, never taking the open ones from the shelf. I guess I will stop going their at all.
How is it legal to claim that these are new games?
Does amazon also open games and sell them as new?
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I think the only requirement for selling something as new is that it has not been sold before. You find at places like, say, Target, that they can sell an item even if the box has been opened and the contents inspected, which happens sometimes by curious customers.
Amazon does not do that. It would be inconvenient for them to do so. They are about low costs of operation. They just ship the games out as they receive them.
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So then even their employees using the item does not make it used?
Glad to hear that about amazon, I will from now on not buy new games at GS.
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I would think that would qualify as it being used, though I don't know the law well enough to say for sure.
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Interesting point... there's a lot of contention with dealerships that get "dealer" tags for cars instead of regular license plates, they (or their spouses or employees or whatever) can drive the car for YEARS and then sell it as "new," technically speaking.
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(IANAL) The legal issue here is going to be tortuous interference, however GameStop could just as easily argue that adding the coupon for a competitive business to be distributed by GameStop without their knowledge could itself be considered tortuous interference, especially since the only purpose for giving away a free game to GameStop customers would be to interfere with the relationship between GameStop and its customers.
Granted, I'm sure the coupon is in every box, not just the ones sold through GameSto
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Actually, IANAL, but is there a legal issue here? If there's a reasonable expectation that every copy of the game includes this coupon and Gamestop are removing it, are they committing fraud or theft or something?
The coupon's part of the package. Meaning it's also part of the product.
If you know from the manufacturer sources that the coupon is part of this product, you go to Gamestop, buy the product, and open the package to find part of the product missing then the product is not complete.
This i
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What you're talking about is selling used as new. That is usually illegal.
What they're doing here is opening the package, checking contents without using the actual product (game). This does not make the product used.
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Bottom line - Gamestop are probably - though not certainly - ok in terms of criminal law - there is indeed no marking on the box. But depending on the nature of their contract with Square-Enix, they may be in line for a world of butt-hurt from that direction.
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Is that a requirement? Does a box advertise that the game comes with a game manual? I don't think most do. But GameStop would be f*cking with the product if they removed it. If they don't want to sell the games with the coupon, they should return them to Square Enix and tell them to supply them with games without a coupon (that competes with their non-existent and probably lame service).
Re:You've got to be kidding... (Score:5, Insightful)
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No, why would there be?
If it's coupon it has cash value. They are selling a retail package to the customer, minus the coupon, which was intended to be part of that package. This is theft.
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Because they are altering the product between when they receive it and when they sell it, which is likely a major violation of the distribution agreement with their distributor or the manufacturer.
Imagine if you got an air conditioner from Sears, got it home, installed it, and plugged it in, and found out that when you turn it on it announces "Thank you for shopping at Sears!" It would be no different than if they opened every box and removed all the warranty cards or accessories that supported certain wind
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I'm willing to bet it's most likely in violation of US anti-competition laws, if not product tampering.
In what way is it a violation of anti-competition laws? GameStop does not hold some significant market share over game sales as they are easily dwarfed by companies like Best Buy. Secondly, GameStop has already been investigated by the FTC for this practice since it's been their company policy FOR YEARS. And since those stories mentioning that are from 2009 and nothing seems to have happened to them, it's doubtful you are correct on either count.
Re:You've got to be kidding... (Score:4)
They'll boycott gamestop if and only if the employees mug them at gunpoint when they come in.
You're giving them more credit than they deserve...
So, Gamestop has agreed to EULA? (Score:5, Funny)
Cool. I can violate every provision of the EULA, and it's GameStop that has to agree to the terms.
I wonder if that'll hold up in a court of law?
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Re:So, Gamestop has agreed to EULA? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, you can. You didn't agree to shit, Gamestop did. You are under no obligation at all to abide by the EULA, especially since I'll bet that EULA has a clause about non-transferrable property that kicks in upon opening of the software packaging.
Gamestop is then violating the EULA, their problem, not yours.
As it is, this is product tampering, and bait and switch, not to mention anti-competitive practice.
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Yes, you can. You didn't agree to shit, Gamestop did. You are under no obligation at all to abide by the EULA, especially since I'll bet that EULA has a clause about non-transferrable property that kicks in upon opening of the software packaging.
Gamestop is then violating the EULA, their problem, not yours.
As it is, this is product tampering, and bait and switch, not to mention anti-competitive practice.
No, sorry. The EULA agreement pops up during installation. Bait and switch does not occur since the coupon was never promised. Not providing a competitor's marketing coupon cannot reasonably be considered as anti-competitive.
Re:So, Gamestop has agreed to EULA? (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, EA argued that one against me in court, stating that opening the box did indeed constitute agreement to what was contained therein. Very miserably shot down, and the main reason they settled against my class-action suit.
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You are implying corporations ever really learn from their mistakes.
They'll try to claim the same thing again. This is how we play the legal game.
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Why not? The whole legal basis for the EULA is that you took a specific action to indicate agreement. In the case of GameStop, you didn't take that action.
That leaves you responsible only for the default copyright terms.
Of course, it would cost you plenty to actually get such a ruling IF you could find a court that doesn't just go through the motions.
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I can't remember a single game that came with a Microsoft Windows style "BY OPENING THIS BOX YOU FORFEIT YOUR SOUL" EULA. Also, as previously
Cereal box (Score:5, Insightful)
This would be like my grocery store opening my cereal box to get the toy out so that I'm more likely to buy toys from the store.
Fucked. Up.
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It'd be more like the store opening up the cereal to remove a toy advertising a competitor they told the distributor not to include in the first place.
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Still fucked up. I don't want any of their employees opening my food and possibly contaminating it. If you don't want to sell the product with the toy, send it the f back and demand product without the competing product. Your inter-business dealings have little to do with the customer you supposedly serve.
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Still fucked up. I don't want any of their employees opening my food and possibly contaminating it. If you don't want to sell the product with the toy, send it the f back and demand product without the competing product. Your inter-business dealings have little to do with the customer you supposedly serve.
Do you eat your DVDs? wtf?
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Steam or Amazon ftw! (Score:2)
... and this is why I don't buy my games from the galactic empire (gamestop) anymore...
DIsgusting (Score:2)
Wow (Score:5, Funny)
What a bunch of deusbags.
Can it even still be considered new? (Score:3)
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Umm, this is GameStop. They don't sell Factory sealed items, even on things marked "new".
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They sure make it appear as though they do.
I take the open box to the counter then request a sealed one. If they are resealing them than I want to pay open box not new prices.
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It does not matter if it is only a 1% difference. That is X% they are stealing.
Is it ok for me to commit fraud if it is for small values?
Do you work for these scumbags? Why else would you defend such practices?
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when I DO need to buy a "new" game from them... I'm going to start insisting that they only give me sealed boxes.
They have resealing machines. You can't count on a sealed game to be "new" at GameStop.
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when I DO need to buy a "new" game from them... I'm going to start insisting that they only give me sealed boxes.
They have resealing machines. You can't count on a sealed game to be "new" at GameStop.
Aw nuts. Guess I'll just not shop there at all.
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When I purchase something that is advertised as "New" I expect it to BE new
You do realize the clothes you buy may even have been tried on by someone else, right?
Do they lose their "new" status too? Or do you after trying on a jacket, demand that they bring you one that no else has tried on?
By opening these boxes and removing whatever the fuck they want, are these games even allowed to be called "new" anymore?
If they opened printer boxes, dropped a usb cable inside, and slapped a sticker that said "USB cable
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Fair enough.
Although the CD key can be sealed inside the package. This was common for a while. You opened the box, and there was a manual, and a further shrink-wrapped case which contained the disk and the CDKey.
With the recent switch to those fat dvd cases though, I agree its a potential problem again. Although selling games with CD keys that habitually don't work is a fast track to not selling any games at all.
This is why I won't shop GameStop (Score:5, Informative)
I got the game home, opened it, and there was no code for DLC included. Then I noticed the game had been unsealed and re-wrapped. I took it back to the store, presented the receipt and said, "Hey, you sold me a used game at full retail." The guy tried to backpedal, saying it was a new copy that had been opened for display purposes, and maybe someone had stolen the DLC code. It was late, so at that point I offered to take the used copy he'd previously offered if he gave me the right price for it. He then said that was the only copy they had (though he'd previously tried to sell me on a used copy before presenting me with the "new" one). He hastily provided me with a full refund.
Then I went to a competitor's store nearby, where I found a new (i.e. sealed) copy for $40, DLC included. I have not set foot inside a GameStop since. My definition of a "new game" is one that's gone from the factory to my hands without the contents of the box seeing daylight. GameStop, it seems, has other ideas.
The legal ramifications, in a different article (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/08/gamestop-onlive/ [wired.com]
Basically, Gamestop may be in the right, legally, if Square-Enix has a pre-existing contract with them with a non-compete clause. As the article states: “Existing contracts between GameStop and Square may have barred this kind of promotion, and so GameStop may actually be justified in their action if Square is in breach of some promotion/marketing agreement”
But they can also be in legal trouble over this, as the article also points out, for a number of different reasons.
Nowhere on the packaging does it say "Free OnLive coupon", apparently. I haven't looked at the packaging myself.
Gamestop been doing it for a long time (Score:5, Interesting)
Another time in a different Gamestop my son bought the PS2 game Devil May Cry, again the package was open and the had the discs behind the counter. A few days later while playing it asks him to insert Disc 2, which was not in the box. We went back to the store and they still had the 2nd disc.
In both cases they made good, but after those experiences they lost me as a customer, and I had been shopping there nearly every week since they were Babbages. It sounds like they have still haven't learned not to open packages.
In this case it's even worse - don't they have to break the security seal to get the coupon? In the old days they could just re-shrink wrap it, these days most games come with a security seal as well.
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I shall throw my hat into the ring as well. There are two Star Wars games in the Starfighter series, Starfighter and the sequel Jedi Starfighter. Having playing the first, I decided to buy the second during a used game sale at GameStop. I got home, only to find that they have given me the first game instead. It would have just been a simple misunderstanding but the douche-bag at the counted decided to give me a hard time about it, including repeatedly asking the question, "what's the difference?" Eventually
Do people still shop there? (Score:2)
If so, why? The few times I've gone in there ( "well, it's been a while, they have to have gotten better" ), I have left disappointed.
Gamestop does this with most new games (Score:2)
The stealing codes is semi-new. But opening the box and storing the disks somewhere else is something they've done for years.
The employees will even take the games home and play them, then they'll sell the games to you as 'new'. Except when activation codes don't allow that.
Any lawyers reading? (Score:2)
Are there any lawyers (as in, licensed to practice law) who are gamers who are reading this willing to take this one pro-bono?
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Are there any lawyers (as in, licensed to practice law) who are gamers who are reading this willing to take this one pro-bono?
Only if they're idiots.
Gamestop blows (Score:2)
Legal or not, this is pretty clearly poor practice for the customer and rather shady. But it's nothing new. Gamestop is little more then a pawn shop these days anyway. Their PC selection has been so pathetic for years that I'm surprised they even sell this game.
I stopped going there years ago when I went to buy a game and was instead lectured about how I should pre-order. I then walked across the street to a big box store and bought it without the lecture. This is a terrible company and as soon as their paw
Whatever... (Score:2)
*shrug*
This doesn't bother me at all.
Unless they are re-sealing the boxes and are representing them as unopened, I don't see the problem.
Caveat emptor used to mean something.
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I've got a better crystal ball - this is a tempest in a teapot, gamers will bitch and moan and do nothing about it, and life will go on. No lawsuit. No reckoning. Nothing.
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My guess is that Square will sue not the gamers. They likely have contracts on what can be done to their product while it is in the hands of Gamestop before it's sold to the end customer.
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I think this has a reasonable chance, because Gamestop is selling something which doesn't match reasonable expectations. If asked, the manufacturer, and any other vendor, would tell you this had a coupon in it. Gamestop is getting rid of it without notice.
Re:First! (Score:4, Informative)
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Sue for what?
If they re-sealed the box and represented it as unopened, I can see the case. But if you willingly purchase an opened box and expect the contents of the box to be unmolested then you've got a screw loose somewhere.
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