Startup Aims For $99, Android-Powered TV Game Console 194
rodrigoandrade writes "Ouya is a new Android-based home console that aims to bring to the living room the $0.99 games business model that has worked so well for Apple. The device 'will allow developers to easily create and sell their games and be fully “hackable” — anyone will be able to pull the machine apart and tinker with it to their heart’s content.' They're planning on shipping by March 2013. Admittedly, it's vaporware so far, but it could turn the industry on its head, effectively putting an end to the things we all hate about modern console gaming ($60 games, DLC, DRM, endless sequels, movie tie-ins, etc.)"
Not that revolutionary (Score:4, Informative)
In France, where almost all domestic broadband is "triple play" (phone, TV and Internet), at least two of the major ISPs offers gaming as part of the functionality of their latest glorified router package. You can't get much easier to install than "It's already there", and the ISPs already have a distribution model that they use to sell view-on-demand video.
Re:Not that revolutionary (Score:4, Insightful)
In France, where almost all domestic broadband is "triple play" (phone, TV and Internet), at least two of the major ISPs offers gaming as part of the functionality of their latest glorified router package. You can't get much easier to install than "It's already there", and the ISPs already have a distribution model that they use to sell view-on-demand video.
What kind of content do they offer? Bejeweled? Card games? What's the controller like?
At the end of the day, "just showing up", though important, doesn't help when the content or usability are weak. That's like the VOD I have for Dish Network - completely uninterested, even if it was free - there's better stuff on Netflix or Amazon Video and it's easier to access those with a Roku.
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Here's what the "controller [dimk1t.free.fr]" (really just a TV remote) on mine looks like.
As for the games, it's mostly smartphone-type games (Angry Birds, Bejeweled, Gameloft's stuff, etc...).
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If you want to organise your address book with a joystick or find the nearest restaurant to your television, not at all. But if we're talking about games, I don't think there are "millions" of great games for Android. ISPs who already resell TV channels may have one or two ideas about how to licence games. For example, you don't need to read French to spot the logos and brands on this ISP's website [www.free.fr]
Yeah, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
The $.99 business model only works for ios devs because there are millions of devices in the wild. How many do they plan to sell? It's not like standard android apps blow up to the size of tablets or --worse-- tv screens is attracting customers by the millions.
Re:Yeah, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not even to mention that there is a huge disparity in quality between $0.99 games and $60 games.
Don't get me wrong, there are a TON of shit games released for full consoles that aren't worth $6, let alone $60, and there are a ton of excellent games available for android/ios that are easily worth the $1, $2, or even up to $5 price tags that go along with them...
but you aren't going to ever get a Diablo III / Mass effect / Modern Warfare / etc level game on android/ios for $1. ain't happening. sheer logistics of development team size.
and i'm cool with that. there's no need to have only one or the other. we can have both.
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For those kinds of games OnLive is one solution that would work with a $50 console.
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ok, i've played all the ME3 games and while good they are not that special. same with CoD and most other games i see.
walk in straight line, shoot from cover, repeat. add in a few cut scenes and dialogue for story. same with all the hyped games from E3 like last of us and tomb raider. the graphics are nice but the gameplay is crappola. reminds me of the mid 1990's "interactive movie" fad. except it was watch cut scene, do some quick game play, repeat.
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But the major consoles can already DO casual games like Bejeweled, Panda Craze, Peggle, Angry Birds, etc.
Netflix box that also plays games (Score:2)
The $.99 business model only works for ios devs because there are millions of devices in the wild. How many do they plan to sell?
If the product can play Netflix video, they can sell it as a Netflix box that also plays Facebook and video games. Apple TV doesn't have video games unless you count beaming an iPad app, in which case you still need an external Bluetooth gamepad (sold separately) in order to be able to see what you're doing.
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The Roku with the game remote is about 85$ or so. But it doesn't run Android unfortunately, so you need to write proprietary scripts and there is no browser etc.
Apart from not running Android, the main issue with the Roku is that it's not open and they take steps to block cool scripts and websites that allow you to access Youtube or Hulu or other normal video sites. Apparently Roku has to be cosy with content producers and middlemen and so they make sure you can't use the Roku as a cheap and convenient PC.
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The Roku is also vastly underpowered to do anything with a web browser (on purpose - Roku strives to be simple and cheap), and yes, they probably do need to keep cozy with content providers, for various reasons. Roku's got by far the largest variety of channels, so they're doing something well. And don't fool yourself - NONE of the set-top boxes (that aren't also HTPCs) will play regular Hulu or anything else that's specifically "web only". Right or wrong, that's just how things are going with content right
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But the PS3 already does Netflix and Facebook and casual games, plus a fuckton of PSone games either on disk or from PSN (PS2 games on disk as wel, if you have an older model), and if you don't want a PS3 there's the various Roku boxes, the higher end ones can do Angry Birds (and other games too I think)
Re:Yeah, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
If you can create an open box like this with a store and a controller, the TV box becomes secondary to the store and the OS compatability. The store is there to enforce a few rules (supports free gameplay in any form, even if just a demo, no hax, possibly multiplayer, will run on the set top box, etc), then you can use that storefront to refine the purchase of games. For instance, you could show correctly if a game has the information to scale to a TV size screen, or back down to a phone size. You also get a controller with standardized input, which is a huge deal for games. I think that if this is successful, it will be a huge win for indie gaming and gaming advancement in general. It won't kill more powerful consoles, but it is filling a hole in the market.
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I'm honestly surprised that Steam hasn't done anything yet in mobile gaming.
Valve would rather sell the games normally on PCs for $50-60 for $20, rather than sell apps that normally sell for $0.99.
In other words, Valve already has their market and apparently it's doing very, VERY well.
Re:Yeah, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm honestly surprised that Steam hasn't done anything yet in mobile gaming.
Why do you think they are working on a Linux client for Steam? Android is a type of Linux. Steam on Ouya could disrupt the shit out of everybody.
-- 77IM
Re:Yeah, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
My guess is that they are right. I know that I would be satisfied with moving backwards a generation in console power to get out from under the thumb of the big three. Last generation's systems were pretty darn good.
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That is one of the nice things about Android. It is specifically designed to handle multiple resolutions. That means that the difference between a TV size optimized game and a phone size optimized game can be as little as exporting your graphic resources at different resolutions.
While it can be, apps that take that approach to supporting both phones and tablets turn out to be absolute shit, especially on tablets. There's a LOT more to supporting larger resolutions than simply making everything bigger.
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Remember that this has the same hardware and the same OS as Tablets that are getting released now. From wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
Asus Eee Pad Transformer Prime, IdeaTab K2 / LePad K2, Acer Iconia Tab A510, Acer Iconia Tab A700, LG Optimus 4X HD, HTC One X, ZTE Era, ZTE PF 100, ZTE T98, Toshiba AT270, Toshiba AT300 (Excite 10), Asus Tablet 610, Fuhu Inc. nabi 2 Tablet, Asus Nexus 7, Asus Transformer 300 and 700.
So anybody who has written an app that runs on any of those tablets/devices just has to add the ability for the
Flat tablet (Score:2)
A developer can make a game for the OUYA and then produce a touchscreen input version of the game for the tablets listed above
How would that work for something like a platformer or a fighting game without an expensive external Bluetooth gamepad? A touch screen displaying a virtual gamepad is completely flat, and the player's thumbs can't find the on-screen buttons by feel.
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Won't happen (Score:2)
Where is the market?
Anyone that has a decent enough TV to want to use it for Android apps is also likely to already have:
- a games console
- a PC/laptop
- a smartphone
$99 price point will never cover any real marketing cost so this is a niche geek product at best
And with the lack of depth of $0.99 games there is not a hope of "turing the industry on its head"
Destined for failure in my books!
Why consoles, PCs, and smartphones fail (Score:2)
Anyone that has a decent enough TV to want to use it for Android apps is also likely to already have:
- a games console
Unless they want to go beyond the selection of games that the console makers allow to be ported to the consoles.
- a PC/laptop
Say you have friends over, and they didn't all happen to bring gaming laptops and copies of the same game. In this case, games that run on something connected to your TV are a better choice for multiplayer than most PC games because most PC games don't support multiple gamepads. This in turn is because statistically nobody (outside the geek demographic that reads Slashdot) uses a PC with a TV-size
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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most people will just get the apple TV and iCrap of their choice then. lots of games in the app store unless you want an emulator to play old games
That's expensive (Score:2)
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Say you have friends over, and they didn't all happen to bring gaming laptops and copies of the same game. In this case, games that run on something connected to your TV are a better choice for multiplayer than most PC games because most PC games don't support multiple gamepads.
I have a device, made by Microsoft no less, that allows me to connect 4 wireless Xbox 360 controllers to my PC. It sells with 1 controller for $41 from Amazon [amazon.com], which is $2 more than the same controller [amazon.com] sells for alone.
What PC games to use with multiple gamepads? (Score:2)
most PC games don't support multiple gamepads
I have a device, made by Microsoft no less, that allows me to connect 4 wireless Xbox 360 controllers to my PC.
I too own a USB hub allowing connection of four wired game controllers. It's just that the big-name PC games tend not to support multiple gamepads plugged into such an adapter for $ome rea$on [cracked.com]. Quoting David Wong:
Have you any suggestion for good
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Sorry, but those explanations are pretty tenuous at best. This thing still has some pretty big hurdles to jump, especially competition from games consoles. The idea that people want to "go beyond the selection of games that console makers allow" is pretty shaky, as most console makers allow quite a wide variety, and most people are satisfied with the selection there. And in order for that to be a draw, the stuff they wouldn't ordinarily get has to be pretty substantial, and it's doubtful you'd get any kind
Counter-Strike, for one (Score:2)
And in order for that to be a draw, the stuff they wouldn't ordinarily get has to be pretty substantial
Lots of PC games have user-created mods through a game-developer-approved mechanism. What console games have such mods? If Half-Life were a console game, would there have been a Counter-Strike? If Warcraft III were a console game, would there have been a DotA?
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similar arguments fell flat on their metaphorical faces in the handheld market the second they hit that hellish, terrible continuum known as "reality"
So for which platform should an indie game developer release a game that supports multiple gamepads or a mobile game in a genre that works best with a gamepad? Or must one pay one's dues by moving to Austin, Boston, or Seattle and working for someone else for ten years first?
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Any of the above. But like GP said, just don't expect it to have any impact on the industry.
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So for which platform should an indie game developer release a game that supports multiple gamepads or a mobile game in a genre that works best with a gamepad?
Xbox, Wii, PS3, PC. Feel free to release it for Android as well, given this and the Nexus Q, but I wouldn't expect it to be a huge percent of your sales.
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Xbox, Wii, PS3
CronoCloud and others have told me [slashdot.org] several times [slashdot.org] that only someone who has already worked for a major developer in a major city would have a hope of qualifying for such a devkit. What do these major developers want to see in the resume and portfolio of an entry-level programmer or artist?
PC
I'm told people aren't used to playing multiplayer games that aren't online on a PC. Party-style multiplayer is the big advantage that consoles (especially the Wii) have over the PC. If someone were to release a PC game tha
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What do these major developers want to see in the resume and portfolio of an entry-level programmer or artist?
What do you think? That you have the training, and/or proven skill. Submit some and find out.
Plan A: Ouya. Plan B: The establishment. (Score:2)
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Yes, for the most part.
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Of course, you could read the article and find out. ;)
Tegra 3 — Quad-core processor
...
1 GB LPDDR2 RAM
8 GB on-board flash
Bluetooth LE 4.0
Storage could be an issue. If they put an SD card into it, storage would be greatly expanded. Too bad :/
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Ah, someone commented "It is mentioned in another article that it has an SD card slot and a USB port."
SD card slot raises it to at least 64+8gb.
a simple prediction: (Score:2)
It will die on the vine, or be a dismal flop.
Reasons:
Lack of quality game titles.
A quality game requires a higher pricing point. Perhaps not the collusion based MSRP of 60$, but definately more than 99 cents. Further, the openness of the console will permit cheats and hacks, which are known to be deleterious to online game communities.
Underpowered hardware (comparably.)
The console will be more anemic than even the wii is. A Tegra based system is chumpchange compared to what's inside CURRENT gen consoles, l
Episodic gaming like a TV series (Score:2)
A quality game requires a higher pricing point.
I agree, and one possible compromise between 99 cent games and $60 games is to split a game into 45-minute episodes (like a TV series) and sell each for a buck or two (also like a TV series).
The console will be more anemic than even the wii is.
Wii's AMD Hollywood GPU is roughly comparable in fillrate to a Radeon 9000, and the Xenos in the Xbox 360 is like a Radeon X1900. Which GPU on Tom's chart [tomshardware.com] comes closest to the specs of a Tegra 3?
A simple software tweak, and those nextgen consoles would be able to more than emulate the proper environment for the android console's titles
But the console makers probably won't choose to emulate Android because if they did, Android titles would compete with native
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Wii's AMD Hollywood GPU is roughly comparable in fillrate to a Radeon 9000, and the Xenos in the Xbox 360 is like a Radeon X1900. Which GPU on Tom's chart comes closest to the specs of a Tegra 3?
nVidia's specs page [nvidia.com] for the Tegra 3 are a bit on the light side with performance details. "3D Performance Relative to Tegra 2" is the only performance metric they give, which is, needless to say, completely useless when trying to compare them to any real 3D cards.
So, I checked with Wikipedia (which could very well be wrong).
Looking at the list of clock speeds and pixel shaders for the Tegra 3 graphics core and the other GeForce graphics cores, the fastest version of it appears to run at about the same cloc
Customary price point (Score:2)
Simple math tells us that the obvious compromise between a $0.99 game and $60 game is $7.7 game.
Geometric mean. Cute. I was trying to figure out how to deliver a game with $60 production values in a market full of $0.99 games. The episodic model (that is, paying to unlock levels as you beat them) is the only way I can think of to make that work.
Why would you change the format rather than the price?
The format must change in order to attract customers who have become accustomed to the $0.99 price point. There's a big kink in the demand curve [wikipedia.org] at $0.99.
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Agreed. Personally though, the way I would *try* to do it (since it probably wouldn't work) would be to segregate the marketplace.
Eg, "Android Powered!"(tm) casual games in the 99 cent range.
Independant but quality titles (like those sponsored by the humble bundle) in the 10 to 30$ range
Commercial publishing house titles in the 35 to 60$ range. (Probably will be very small, because the open console specs would be very unattractive to them, since they couldn't have even lipservice garantees that their games
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People might be more willing to gamble on episode 1 of a game at ~$.99 than the entire game at ~$7.
Was just a matter of time. (Score:3)
Right now take a transformer prime, plug it with a 3 bucks HDMI cable to your TV, and use any xbox 360 controller that would work with a PC (wifi or wired, both will work, but for wifi you need that PC adapter thing), load up Sonic 4, Showgun or whatever and you're there, albeit at a vastly higher price point than even a normal console because, well, its a full feature tablet.
Not surprised someone would cut cost by removing the screen/battery/etc and call it a day.
Right (Score:2)
Having been through the Phantom [wikipedia.org], I'll believe it when I see it.
D.O.A. (Score:2)
The device 'will allow developers to easily create and sell their games and be fully ''hackable'' --- anyone will be able to pull the machine apart and tinker with it to their heart's content.'
The gamer simply wants to play games.
The console maker offers a broad range of services and a clearly name-branded console-oriented community of gamers and other users.
The purchase of a Wii comes with a different set of expectations then the PS3 or XBox 360.
But console gaming has always been meat-space, couch-friendly, social. That is not the Android market.
PC and console gaming is cyclical: what is hot today is cold tomorrow.
That is true in both hardware and software.
You can see this in the listings a
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$60 games (Score:2)
I don't get $60 games. Just wait a while, and the majority of them end up coming down to around $20, new.
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If you want the full multiplayer experience for a multiplayer game, it makes some sense to buy it right away. Or if you just can't wait, I get the idea. I've bought a few games new at full price over the years; the last one was GTA IV and the next one will probably be GTA V, if it ever @#$%$@# comes out.
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OK, I don't play multiplayer (except very very rarely in person), that's one exception.
Though heck, I bought GTA IV for somewhere around my $20 pseudo-limit, I should have waited for the complete edition with the two addons, which is $20 nowadays.
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I paid $40 and $20 for those two discs respectively, didn't quite buy at the top of the curve. Will probably replicate that experience unless I'm into something else when GTAV comes out. I don't think I'll have any trouble finishing FFXII before that happens, though.
End of endless sequels and movie tie-ins?? (Score:2)
The new Atari 2600? (Score:2)
I can't wait to play Combat or Air-Sea Battle on this thing.
I hear they are rushing to get Pacman and E.T. out before Christmas 2013, too!
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This! People say, "ZOMG! Nintendoze is doomz!!! mak 99c iphone gamze!!11!!!" But I see history repeating itself. Low quality software killed the 2600. High quality software made the NES a success.
An iPhone/iPad 4 is already a game console (Score:2)
It's funny to me that this video-out feature hasn't been marketed and exploited more. Apple doesn't make it very easy for de
Plenty or people can't afford high end consoles (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm pretty sure the main use of the internet both today and in the past (usenet) was for geeks to defend an uninformed position to the death. The neglect of Slashdot is causing it to revert to a natural state.
But do agree with you. And I think the positions people have taken are so negative as to be absurd.
Re:Even GPU costs more (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ak802-mini-android-4-0-network-media-player-w-wi-fi-hdmi-tf-usb-black-4gb-1gb-ddr-iii-143431?r=20144190 [dealextreme.com]
And yet something already exists, and for cheaper.
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Different Specs: quad core a9 vs single core A8... (Score:2)
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ak802-mini-android-4-0-network-media-player-w-wi-fi-hdmi-tf-usb-black-4gb-1gb-ddr-iii-143431?r=20144190 [dealextreme.com]
And yet something already exists, and for cheaper.
... and I could continue with differences in the gpu (nvidia Tegra vs unknown gpu)
These things matter for a videoconsole
Re:Even GPU costs more (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft overtaking Google with Bing? What world do you live in? Instead of googling people in this world, do you Bing them?
Re:Even GPU costs more (Score:4, Informative)
Bing vs. Google: Fight! [wolframalpha.com] Yeah, Bing loses pretty badly.
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Re:Even GPU costs more (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Even GPU costs more (Score:4, Insightful)
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It doesn't help that at some point, Google decided to stop having it require all search terms to be present in the search results, which was one of Google's major features.
It took me only a moment to find this, but when I googled bacon binoculars and jumped to a random page (in my case, page 5), right in the middle of the page is a link to "Astro Bob | Celestial happenings you can see from your own backyard" which doesn't mention bacon on its page. Later down the same page of results, there's a "Tactical B
Re:Even GPU costs more (Score:5, Informative)
If you click on "show search tools" on the left, and then "verbatim", Google will stop searching for other spellings and synonyms and will require all search terms to be on the page. In general, verbatim mode actually lowers the quality of the search results, which is why it's turned off by default, but there are exceptions so it's made available as an option.
They started ignoring keywords (Score:2)
Half the time my search results end up having little to do with the words I used. Putting quotes around the words fixes that problem but come on google. Once I searched for "arduino pelco" and google decided pelco was similar to lcd and changed it for me. Great job,
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Re:Even GPU costs more (Score:5, Informative)
Subtle? His username is a play on his employer's name. [waggeneredstrom.com]
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Ah now I get modded up. They had to openly mock us before people took the shilling problem seriously.
SHILL SPOTTED (Score:5, Interesting)
Haha check out the name, a play on Waggener-Edstrom [waggeneredstrom.com]
The Wired article has a pic of the controller (Score:3)
Where's the game controller?
Try reading the Wired article with images turned on. It looks like an Xbox 360 controller with a laptop-style trackpad in the middle.
Bluetooth controllers (Score:2)
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Seriously. And since it's Android powered they don't even have the advantage of recouping costs via games. Ultimate failure. Google sucks.
It uses a QuadCore Tegra 3 which integrates a GPU. The price for this chip is between $15-25 depending on quantity purchased and the contract terms with NVidia. Still it's seems like an extremely lean margin given development costs and other physical devices as well as a game controller.
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And the fact that it cannot play any games that other consoles can.
Wii can't play Xbox 360 or PS3 games. When Wii first came out, it couldn't play games made for the original Xbox or the PS2 either.
So what stops developers from porting games, especially indie games, to this platform? The only excuse I can see is as follows: "The 1983 crash proved Theodore Sturgeon's revelation that well over 90 percent of indie games are utter crap, and we don't want to be on the same platform as utter crap."
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Of course, the 1983 crash only happened if you ignore the gaming systems that everybody moved to
How many players could play at once on one of these computers? Sure, technically, a PC can take multiple gamepads, especially since the introduction of USB in 1999. But in practice, statistically nobody does that, as CronoCloud and others have repeatedly explained to me.
by listening to marketing and declaring consoles and computers completely different animals with no crossover in market.
As I understand it, the general public listened to marketing.
Re:Even GPU costs more (Score:4, Informative)
And yes, the public has listened (as they often do) to the marketing people, so they believe something that never existed. This isn't new or surprising.
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And when tepples says multiple gamepads, he means more than 2.
No, he doesn't. If he did, he would be being intellectually dishonest. Systems of that time rarely if ever had more than 2 game ports.
Whether gaming primarily shifted back to systems without keyboards or not doesn't change the fact that gaming didn't disappear in 1983. It just moved to platforms that marketers didn't count. Some big players lost a bunch of money, and instead of acknowledging that their competitors took their customers, they declared it a crash.
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Android is failing its way to the most popular smartphone?
If this can run the OnLive android app it will be able to run all the standard AAA games.
Recouping 30% of game sales (Score:2)
And since it's Android powered they don't even have the advantage of recouping costs via games.
From the Wired article: "Thirty percent of revenue will go to Ouya, the rest to the developer." This is the same deal as the App Store and Xbox Live Indie Games. However, unlike with iOS and Xbox 360, the article appears to imply that there won't even be a $99 per year hurdle before developers can get their feet wet: "every Ouya box sold includes a software development kit at no extra cost."
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And that... will be the death of it.
Let's ignore first the games cost issue. The problem will be piles of people see "
Rounds that fit into a commercial break (Score:2)
The whole point of the 99 cent apps are something you can grab for the few dead minutes you have - in a lineup, waiting for something, etc, as something to do. A home console - well, players tend to have more time to invest in a game
Free-to-air and basic cable television channels in the United States are full of 3-minute commercial breaks. If one round takes 2 to 3 minutes to play, then someone could switch from TV to the console, play a game, and then switch back to TV.
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"and crank out crap after crap after crap, making it impossible to find or discover the good stuff."
In what fantasy universe do people "crank out crap after crap" for no money? You have stipulated that there is no money to be made and then you say that people will work endless hours toward something with no financial reward! Huh???
"It's an intriguing thing, but will probably be flooded with crap soon enough."
The same is true of the Internet but it's not a legitimate reason to avoid it.
Maybe this is a good
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You do not have to use the Google Play store. See the Kindle fire and Nook tablet as an example so yes it can recover the costs though game and media sales.
Hey you are wrong but at least you didn't post as an AC so you get a brownie point for that.
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The same day that someone realizes there will be no Year of the Linux Desktop.
Re:Hackable? (Score:4, Funny)
Racing stripes, a spoiler, maybe cut a hole in the side and add an LED or two. Water cooling is the next step after that.
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I don't get it. What kind of modifications would you want to make to such a device?
The device will probably come with a controller-and-idiot-friendly interface, and you will probably want to load a more standard Android on it if you are a nerd. Everyone else will just want to use it. You will also want to know that you will be able to use it for other purposes in the future. For example, one of the best things about the original Xbox was being able to use it as a pretty credible media player long after new games of note were being released.
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I can't see the standard Android interface working well for a TV. But yes, being able to modify it for purposes other than the original stated one is a good thing.
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The first mass market PC's that people actually played games on in any real numbers to really count were the Apple II, TRS 80 1, Commodore PET. Even the big name "home computers of the 80's" that were often used pretty similarly as game consoles came long after the 2600, Intellivision, Bally Arcade, Fairchild Channel F, Odyssey 2, etc. Sure a lot of C64's were sold of machines, but the 2600 still sold MORE.
And it didn't matter if a 1981 IBM PC was more powerful, it cost so much more that it was out of rea