Star Citizen Takes the Crowdfunding Crown, Raising More Than $4M 123
Zocalo writes "Star Citizen, Chris Roberts' attempt to reboot the Space Sim genre, hit a major funding milestone earlier today, exceeding the previous record of $4,163,208 secured by the game Project Eternity and more than doubling the initial funding target set by the producer of the Wing Commander series. With Stretch Goals now being passed every few hours bringing new features to the planned game, and David Braben announcing a new installment of the classic Elite using a similar funding model at Kickstarter could this be a wake-up call for the big game publishers to take another look at the genre? There are still two days left for Star Citizen funding as well, so if you feel like taking part, you can chip in either at the main RSI site or on Kickstarter."
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Yes we need a reboot because... (Score:5, Insightful)
Eve:
1) requires 15 a month (sucks).
2) requires you to engage in pvp or hit a harsh progression cap (drives away the pve market)
3) has a player base full of crooks!
X3:
1) not massive.
2) interface is egregiously klunky, complicated, and unintuitive.
So, yes, we need a reboot. However, space sims are really hard to do well. Space is pretty empty so there isn't nearly as much to do out there as there is to do on the surface of a planet. Especially when combat mechanics are concerned. Space combat usually falls into two categories, neither one of which is as fun and engaging as most ground combat systems. The two categories are:
1) arrow chasing. Most of the time you are flying, you are chasing the arrows on your HUD. Then, you have a split second when the enemy is in front of you, so you can shoot at them, and then you are right back to arrow chasing. You can't really appreciate the graphics if you are staring at that arrow most of the time, and it gets silly fast.
2) resource allocating. You let the AI do the fighting for you while you mostly just pick the targets and reallocate power. Fun from a tactical perspective, but not from an adrenaline perspective.
You can mix the two...usually that just makes it confusing. I am not saying it can't be done right, I am just saying the bar is really, really high. After watching bioware sink 100 million into a game that flopped largely because of unengaging combat and a boring endgame, I would be quite wary of investing in this.
But if he pulls it off, you will see me online. pew pew!
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> However, space sims are really hard to do well.
Wing Commander. Privateer. X-wing. Tie Fighter.
The head on this project was even behind two of those.
Space sims probably fell out of favor because people stopped buying joysticks.
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Parsec has revived [openparsec.com]. No idea how far along its come (it was dead for 9 years and the current feature list touts IPX networking) and no idea how close to freelancer it'll get, but maybe it'll get there.
I did the Wing Commander -> Privateer -> Freelancer sequence too. I'll throw in a few bucks for this too.
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I found Tachyon: The Fringe quite amusing as well.
Although that was mostly despite of the gameplay, not because of it. Weird storylines(preventing a space pirate from taking off with the stolen Sistine Chapel on a barge), good voiceacting, etc.
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Re:Yes we need a reboot because... (Score:4, Informative)
Pretty sure you're wrong about that. So are 62,000 other people who spent an average of nearly $70 each to help crowd-fund the game. And thats with all the doubt around whether he will be able to pull it off (I still have my doubts, and nevertheless am thinking of raising my pledge... because even the possibility he could deliver 1/2 of what he promises is worth it to me).
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Putting combat at the center of the game is the problem. We need economics (unpredictable markets, not gold sinks), politics (real complexity), religion, personal rivalries, grand stories (told by the players), crafting (unpredictable items; based on human abilities not player stats), exploration (map making and sharing; shifting resources or pathways), etc.... We need new games, not shinier explosions.
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You either give everyone the same skills and then its balanced but dull, or you have some skills outweighing others with an overall balance.
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I'm a 6 year eve veteran, combat focused (mining, trading, etc = boring). I quit about 6 months ago. I'm pretty familiar with the deficiencies in EVE PVP vs PVE, and I agree in spirit; making the rats behave like players is a really tall order though. They did do somewhat better when they introduced sleepers, and again in incursions. I never was a "mission whore" and so as soon as I moved into lowsec, which was within a week or two of starting, I just fit for PVP and only for PVP -- even when ratting or
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That's not really much different to any other MMO which has both PvP and PvE; you generally have your PvP gear and your PvE gear and switch depending on what you're doing.
PvP vs. PvE (Score:1)
In case of EVE, changing the NPC equipment and behavior to be more like players' could help. Such as
-Make NPCs try to run or warp away, when they see themselves outgunned. Now you need warp and engine scramblers like in PvP, to keep the opponent from simply running away.
-Less but more dangerous NPC opponents to make electronic warfare worthwhile in PvE. Right now, jamming one in a dozen NPC enemies does not help much, 90% of the enemy firepower will still be on yo
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The real news here though is tha
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Silent Hunter?
EvE? Really? (Score:3, Interesting)
As someone who's been playing eve since 2006 and only quit a few months ago, I'm hopeful that SC can properly tackle some of the issues that have been slowly eating away at the... eveiverse? I don't know the "right" solutions to the problems, and absolutely love the sandbox, but there are serious issues, especially WRT new players and corps. As Douglas Adams put it, space is BIG, yet due to the mechanics of gates and the politics of nullsec and lolsec, it feels very cramped.
If SC (or even eve) could ju
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Yes. That's why I lived entirely in null and low since my first week.
Doubt there's anything SC or Roberts can do about the asshattery of the community, unfortunately.
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With Eve Online and X3 available, is there real need for rebooting the space sim genre? I would understand the concern if there really was no games available, but there are and they're both pretty great. On top of that I wouldn't want to touch single player space sim anymore. Eve is just that good.
Well, X3 is showing it's age -- which is why they're rebooting it.
I don't mean gameplay or even artistically -- the game's engine cannot support enough ram to handle the full simulation anymore. When you play the latest X3 games you are literally in a race against time before the game's engine craps out. This is even moreso with the not-quite-official-but-encouraged Xtended updates.
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X3 fan here, but I agree that some things need improvement. In particular building of factory complexes and fleet command. Factory complexes look more like a crude hack than a carefully designed feature, and fleet command was obviously never meant to be a central part of the game. Yet you can own lots of ships, which makes the lack of a good fleet command interface a letdown.
Now Egosoft, the developers of X3, are actually rebooting the X series with X-Rebirth (in development). From what has been announced s
Re:Is there really need for "rebooting" (Score:4, Informative)
I've always found that the X series wasn't very accessible. The controls seem really complicated (instead of complex yet simple).
But the biggest thing I miss from the old space sim days is the story. In Wing Commander, X-Wing, TIE Fighter, etc. you really felt like you were a pilot who's accomplishments on missions really made a difference in the larger picture. Something sorely missing from either of the titles that you mentioned.
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I think a lot of them do have real life jobs, it's just their real life jobs are basically doing what they're doing in EVE; that's why they're so good at it.
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Maybe things are different from when I used to play it, but back then (2 or 3 of years ago) it was always possible for the little guy to make a difference. I was in a Corporation with maybe a dozen active members, in an Alliance of maybe 4 similar sized Corporations- and we held down a small chunk of null-sec territory, ran a small network of stations, took part in some of the great wars and politics of the day. I commanded a large fleet on a few occasions, and took part in fleet actions on plenty of others
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EVE is not really a space sim. To me, space sim means real time flying and dog fighting... specifically things like having to lead your target.
I've always found that the X series wasn't very accessible. The controls seem really complicated (instead of complex yet simple).
But the biggest thing I miss from the old space sim days is the story. In Wing Commander, X-Wing, TIE Fighter, etc. you really felt like you were a pilot who's accomplishments on missions really made a difference in the larger picture. Something sorely missing from either of the titles that you mentioned.
Wing Commander, new and updated in Freespace 2 engine: http://wcsaga.hard-light.net/ [hard-light.net]
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EVE is not really a space sim. To me, space sim means real time flying and dog fighting... specifically things like having to lead your target.
That's your definition. Real flying and dog-fighting is the sign of a flight sim, or a first-person shooter. It's in a lot of the great space sims, but is it THE key trait? Can it not be a space sim if the focus is on bigger ships (instead of little unrealistic fighter-jets-in-space), with more "captain of the ship" tactics-based combat?
To me, a space sim is about exploring, trading, and combat (of some sort). Big worlds to discover, and ways of making your mark on it. That's why Elite was great, and that's
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EVE is not really a space sim. To me, space sim means real time flying and dog fighting... specifically things like having to lead your target.
Which is a lame requirement. I mean we have tech to fly across the galaxy but not for a proper targeting computer? Seriously we had mechanical ones even back in WWII.
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"With Eve Online and X3 available, is there real need for rebooting the space sim genre? "
They both suck compared to freespace 1 + 2, xwing and the old wing commander series. Eve has no action oriented gameplay it's fully automated and slow as molasses. X3 is just too simmy and poorly made compared to freespace. Fans want something like this, see here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhAR8rWPluQ [youtube.com]
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And that is what star citizen is fundamentally about, although there will be some other elements. Space combat is at the fore-front, not an after thought.
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That is awesome.
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I know to think it's probably one of the most un-known and underplayed game in gaming :P
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I'm much more excited by the prospect of a new Elite. Perhaps with(optional) explosions-in-space level of realism? Dogfighting could be very frustrating in Elite. An X -Wing level of complexity with an Elite openness and scale would be my wet dream.
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61401 people would beg to differ.
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I'm hoping now SC has made it, people will turn their attention to Elite: Dangerous [kickstarter.com]. Braben posted a video recently talking about procedural generation [youtube.com] showing some wonderful volumetric clouds
Anyway, it's here if you're interested [kickstarter.com]. I love space sims and I hope both projects are concluded successfully. Competition is good!
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Spreadsheets in spaaaaaaaace!
Wakeup Call (Score:5, Insightful)
No it's not a wake up call. Only if one of these games is successful like the "500 million US Dollar on the first day" latest Call of Duty sequel http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57551285/call-of-duty-black-ops-2-earns-$500-million-in-24-hours/ [cbsnews.com]
If one of these games, or better several, are huge hits, then the publishers will howl. Not before.
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Guess I wasn't logged in for that post.
Me neither.
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Much more interesting would be to find out who buys that stuff and why? You run around with a gun and shoot and thats all that's to it. The popularity of semi-realistic manshooters, soap operas, X-Factor, reality TV shows and teenie bopper music has always eluded me. But they always have a huge audience.
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That's not the average outcome but the average *budget* is about $23m
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/97413-Study-Claims-Average-Game-Budget-Is-23-Million [escapistmagazine.com]
Even Star Citizen acknowledges that their budget will be about 4-5x more than they raise on Kickstarter. So you're looking at $12-$25m to make your game. And you have to start wondering "Have all of our customers already pledged?" It's certainly great to have 10-20% of your budget up front to attract investors but investors have to wary too t
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Indeed, Not only is the game not even published yet... $4million is a pretty low budget for a modern PC game. It'll be interesting to see if they can pull it off all, let alone with all the "stretch goals", but it's hardly a wake up call.
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No it's not a wake up call. Only if one of these games is successful like the "500 million US Dollar on the first day" latest Call of Duty sequel http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57551285/call-of-duty-black-ops-2-earns-$500-million-in-24-hours/ [cbsnews.com]
If one of these games, or better several, are huge hits, then the publishers will howl. Not before.
That only happens because of hype and a large player base of your previous games. Plus lots of advertising.
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It doesn't have to be the biggest selling game of all time to still catch the eye of the publishers. If it can sell as well as the middle of the game charts, not cost the earth to develop, and turn a profit- there will be plenty of publishers itching to dip their toe into the genre. Look at the strategy game genre for an example- that's not topped the charts in years (if ever), and yet hundreds of games are still churned out in the genre (some of which are pretty boilerplate and mediocre).
If "makes $500 mil
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Excellent ! (Score:2)
I'm a backer and I really believe this game is going to turn out grandiose. :)
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A letter and a word... (Score:4, Insightful)
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I remember one particular mission where I had to fly an A-Wing and protect a couple of freighters. There were missiles I had to take out. It was next to impossible and took me two evenings to somehow muddle through. It got changed in the re-releases but the original floppy version had some absolutely spirit destroying missions.
The OPL2 soundtrack still haunts me.
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There's a difference when you are subjected to random insta-fails(like 3 bombers simultaneously launching 2 fatal torpedoes each at a freighter or impossible monster affixes in D3) and hard games(like Xenon2 which you could beat with practice).
The industry has forgotten what difficult really is. You either get "press X to win" or your head
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A radio acknowledgement (Score:2)
Who? (Score:2)
and David Brabham announcing a new installment of the classic Elite
David Braben, not Brabham - Brabham's the car guy.
I wonder... (Score:4, Interesting)
Exactly why is it so interesting how a company raises money? It was interesting the first couple of times, but now? Meh... not so much.
By the way, its about time for a bitcoin / RaspberryPi story
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Why there are so many 'crowdfunding' stories here on /. ;-)
Exactly why is it so interesting how a company raises money? It was interesting the first couple of times, but now? Meh... not so much.
By the way, its about time for a bitcoin / RaspberryPi story
Or an RP project crowdfunded by bitcoins.
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It's the libertarian streak of Slashdot, people here are very fond of "alternative" ways that don't rely on corporations or the government. Like for example crowdfunding which is a massive move of risk over to the "customer", which is what people consider themselves when the reward for donating $X is one copy of product Y. And then I'm not thinking about the outright frauds but more the projects that just don't go according to plan, either because the plan is terrible to begin with, you don't have the peopl
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It is interesting when projects that can't get funding through more traditional channels manage to do so through crowdfunding. I live in hope that one day good TV shows won't be at the mercy of shitty TV networks, and interesting games that aren't just clones of existing ones will get made.
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Slashdot's traditionally been antagonistic towards publishers in general - RIAA, MPAA, BSA, even some game developers (EA). Kickstarter is a direct-to-creator funding method that cuts out the publisher. If it becomes a mainstream method of funding, it could spell the beginning of the end for traditional publishers. Because the money's all given up-front, copyright isn't as important for Kickstarted projects as it is for projects whose sole income stream is post-development.
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Leisure Suit Larry (Score:4, Funny)
If I had my druthers, I'd go for LLL remake by Al Lowe...
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leisuresuitlarry/make-leisure-suit-larry-come-again?ref=live [kickstarter.com]
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Re:Leisure Suit Larry (Score:4, Informative)
Larry got his funding, why not contribute to another classic Sierra team trying to put out a new game? Lori and Corey Cole, the couple behind Quest for Glory, have a kickstarter ending in THREE DAYS. They have $311K out of $400. That's nearly 80% of the way there. This can happen if you pitch in.
Please contribute to the Quest for Glory reboot: Hero-U [kickstarter.com].
Direct link for pledging (Score:2)
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Nice try with that ?rid=x bit ;)
procedural content generation (Score:2)
Also in Elite gas giant planets (like jupiter) will really have atmosphere where you could fly and harvest fuel (and possibly get crushed due to pressure).
For these reasons I put my funding on Elite [kickstarter.com]
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Star citizen has no procedural content generation. How are they going to fill a whole galaxy without that?
BYOPlanet.
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Both approaches are equally valid in my book; it would be very hard for Elite's procedural approach to have the kind of in-jokes that Star Citizen's hand crafting approach makes trivial, such as having one of the bread basket systems called "Kellogg" (yes, really!), so think of it as a quality vs. quantity kind of thing.
Adding a few hand-coded worlds to a procedurally generated game is trivial, if you want to do it.
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How about Maia? (Score:1)
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That looks wicked! :)
I won't have spare funds to throw at the Kickstarter before it ends, but I'll definitely put in a pre-order when they go live on the site
PS. Is Bomb #20 a 'Dark Star' reference?
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Just pledged!
This is my first ever kickstarter pledge, so don't disappoint me :-)
Am currently playing a lot of DF so I like the idea of a scifi themed DF-inspired game (with actual graphics).
Good luck creating the game!
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Creating a new game because you're too lazy to learn how to i-g and d-b-d another game? Sounds like the kind of inspiration needed to get a good game going :-)
A wakup call to get lost (Score:2)
Gamers care too much about their favorite obsession to let the likes of EA, Sony and Microsoft pull the strings with their fat grubby corporate hands any more.
Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but, yeah but (Score:1)
Independence War and Jumpgate (Score:2)