Sony Reveals More PS4 and Dual Shock 4 Details 242
Yesterday, Sony gave a presentation explaining a bit about the new PS4 hardware, the development environment (Windows 7 based IDE), and the changes to the Dual Shock controller. From the article: "The system is also set up to run graphics and computational code synchronously, without suspending one to run the other. Norden says that Sony has worked to carefully balance the two processors to provide maximum graphics power of 1.843 teraFLOPS at an 800Mhz clock speed while still leaving enough room for computational tasks. The GPU will also be able to run arbitrary code, allowing developers to run hundreds or thousands of parallelized tasks with full access to the system's 8GB of unified memory. ... The DualShock 4 controller that's standard on the PS4 eliminates one feature that was seldom used on the PS3 —the analog face buttons..."
The trackpad will support two touch points, the rumble motors can be controlled more finely, and the analog sticks were tweaked for "reduced dead zone and better feeling tension that grips your thumbs."
Any Word On compatability? (Score:2)
Re:Any Word On compatability? (Score:5, Informative)
The Playstation 4 will not be backwards compatible with Playstation 3 games. [ign.com]
Playstation 2 games will be supported via emulation, /if/ you buy and download them from the Playstation store (so no, you can't just pop in a PS2 disc and expect it to work; you need to buy the game again).
In other words, for full backwards compatibility you need all three devices.
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Three devices? What's the state of original PlayStation games? There's a (small) subset of those that don't run properly on the PS2. Will they run on the PS4?
(I have a ton of PSX and PS2 games. Today, I keep both an original PlayStation and a PS2 hooked up in our guest room, next to the SNES, Genesis, and GameCube. I do not have a PS3 or any PS3 games, so the question of how original PlayStation games play on the PS3 isn't of interest to me.)
Re:Any Word On compatability? (Score:5, Funny)
In other words, for full backwards compatibility you need all three devices.
My 60 GB first generation PS3 begs to differ! Just a month ago I was looking through my games and I realized I never played Growlanser 3 (which came in the set with 2, which I played through twice), so I've been going through that one. As a bonus, it takes some of the load off my aging furnace.
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Yup.
That is the reason I am likely not getting one.
That and the fact that the PS3 still works fine. Heck, I am still backlogged with PS2 games to play.
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What's the point of buying a Sony PC? (Score:3)
Re:What's the point of buying a Sony PC? (Score:5, Insightful)
PCs don't get to run Sony exclusive titles. People like them, a lot. It's the same for the other consoles, it's about the games, not the transistor configurations. The new xbox will also return to x86 architecture. Going to moan about that too?
Then why PS exclusives over PC exclusives? (Score:3)
PCs don't get to run Sony exclusive titles. People like them, a lot.
Nor do PlayStations run PC-exclusive titles. People like them, a lot. There are a lot of games that Valve greenlighted that Sony probably wouldn't for whatever reason.
Netflix vs. YouTube (Score:2)
You think they should be on PCs only?
The problem is that the console makers appear to have been fairly successful in promoting disregard among the public for games developed by student, hobbyist, and startup developers. If the consoles' official app stores are like the Netflix of video games, then what's the YouTube or Vimeo?
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So you can play the games for the Playstation?
The internals might be PC architecture, but Sony is going to make damned sure there's lots preventing you from running these games on a PC.
Sony is doing this to cut costs, not make something which is 'open' in any meaningful way. Because let's face it, Sony doesn't do that s
PC/PS4 multiplatform releases (Score:2)
The internals might be PC architecture, but Sony is going to make damned sure there's lots preventing you from running these games on a PC.
Please elaborate on these "lots". How is Sony going to prevent licensed developers from taking their own games, which are already ported to very PC-like hardware, and making PC ports available through Steam on the PC? And what is Sony going to do to attract PS4 ports of games originally developed for the PC?
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There's nothing at all to prevent the publishers from taking their games and doing whatever they like unless they signed a contract with Sony to the contrary.
But I'm betting that there will be just enough stuff in there that is proprietary to make it just incompatible enough as to be entirely unusable.
I meant you won't be able to take a PS4 title, pop it into your PC and run it. Just because the CPU architecture is x86 doesn't mean Sony hasn't gone to great pains to ensure they don't quite work the same.
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The internals might be PC architecture, but Sony is going to make damned sure there's lots preventing you from running these games on a PC.
Please elaborate on these "lots". How is Sony going to prevent licensed developers from taking their own games, which are already ported to very PC-like hardware, and making PC ports available through Steam on the PC? And what is Sony going to do to attract PS4 ports of games originally developed for the PC?
Both Macs and Windows use PC architecture computers, and yet, I cannot run most Mac software on my Windows PC and vice versa. I can run Linux on both, but I can't run software designed for either on Linux. Software compatability is a lot more involved than the underlying hardware.
Wine (Score:2)
I can run Linux on both, but I can't run software designed for either on Linux.
I have no problem running Modplug Tracker and FamiTracker, software designed for Windows, on a laptop running Xubuntu 12.04 LTS. In fact, I'm typing this very comment into a Win32 program running inside Linux. Sure, PlayStation 4 will incorporate measures to make binary compatibility more difficult. However:
Software compatability is a lot more involved than the underlying hardware.
I know it's more complicated than just a recompile. That's why I said "very PC-like hardware" and "PC ports". If there's about as much difference
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If PlayStation 4 is moving to a PC architecture, then what's the point of buying a PlayStation 4 over a home theater PC running a less-closed operating system such as Windows 8 or GNU/Linux?
Maybe because you want to play PS4 games? Apple moved to a PC architecture and people still purchase their products instead of a home theater PC or Windows 8 or GNU/Linux. Probably because they want to run OS X.
By the way, exactly how is running Windows 8 any less closed than running a Playstation?
Sony takes away personal computing features (Score:2)
Maybe because you want to play PS4 games?
If a video game is released for PS4 and PC, people who want to play it on a PC can buy the PC version. Or what sort of anticompetitive contracts do you think Sony Computer Entertainment will use to discourage PS4/PC multiplatform releases?
Apple moved to a PC architecture and people still purchase their products instead of a home theater PC
Mac mini is a home theater PC. It runs XBMC (the home theater part) and it allows the user to write and install software, including game mods that use a game's mod API (the personal computer part). Sony Computer Entertainment, on the other hand, has a track record of takin
Just works (Score:2)
Two things I noticed. 1) it's built on Directx. You'd think they'd worry about building their tech off Microsoft. 2) GDDR5. Not really a big deal. My $90 GT240 has 256 of GDDR5. The only reason you can't buy one with GDDR5 now is the cards perform a bit too well, and nvidia didn't want them biting into the $150 dollar range.
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...what's the point of buying a PlayStation 4 over a home theater PC running a less-closed operating system such as Windows 8 or GNU/Linux?
Exactly the same point that exists in buying a PlayStation 3 over a HTPC. People want different tools for different jobs.
Re:Any Word On compatability? (Score:4, Insightful)
Acquisition of GaiKai and skinny on the street says it will be offered down the line by some sort of cloudy streamy service.
Which means if your home Internet is satellite, microwave, capped DSL, capped cable, or capped fiber, good luck.
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Analog face buttons? (Score:2)
Yeah, I guess you can call them seldom used... I never even knew the PS3 had controllers with those buttons. My PS3 controllers never had them.
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WTF controllers did you buy?
DualShock 2 & 3 had them. They let games tell whether you smashed the button & released it quickly, or gently pressed it and gently eased up.
Only games I can recall using them on either system were entries in the Metal Gear Solid series. Control scheme for MGS2, for instance, will have to be modified if it's re-released on the PS4.
Re:Analog face buttons? (Score:5, Informative)
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I think they'd be better off adjusting the shape a bit to make the sticks more comfortable. They only seem to be comfortable for me if I stick my elbows out ... they're way too low. They should just bite the bullet and move a bit closer to the XBox controller shape.
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Interesting. I guess I never realized that the PS3 controllers had this capability because I never played anything that apparently used this and also because there was no indication on the controller that they had analog button functions. I remember the old conrollers had that button that actually said, "ANALOG" on it, so there was no mistaking there.
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Interesting. I guess I never realized that the PS3 controllers had this capability because I never played anything that apparently used this and also because there was no indication on the controller that they had analog button functions. I remember the old conrollers had that button that actually said, "ANALOG" on it, so there was no mistaking there.
That Analog button actually refers to the analog sticks rather than analog face buttons.
When the PS1 came out, its controllers didn't have analog sticks. They were added a few years into the console's lifetime with the introduction of the Dual Analog [wikipedia.org] controllers (which was replaced the next year by the more well known DualShock controllers). Unfortunately, this means that older games don't support analog sticks, so you could press the Analog button to turn them off. Newer PS1 games supported both analog
The missing article... (Score:5, Informative)
Anyone ever use (Score:2)
Re:Anyone ever use (Score:5, Insightful)
the analog face buttons? I gave up pretty quick on them after using them to play Mad Maestro on the PS2. Didn't even realize they were still in the PS3. I do wish Sony would stop adding pointless features to their game pads. It's not so much that the features bug me as I'd rather they spend time/money somewhere else. Plus it'd be nice if the gamepads weren't $60 bucks. On the plus side the PS4's gamepad looks cheap to produce.
I think the useless touchpad will drive up the price.
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$60 is steep, that's why we have ebay for these sort of things.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Black-Six-Axis-DualShock-3-Wireless-Bluetooth-Controller-for-Sony-PS3-/111038626579?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item19da6afb13 [ebay.com]
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I like Gran Turismo with speeds between stop and full throttle.
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I mapped steering to the left analog stick, and accelerate/brake to the right analog stick. Worked a whole lot better than squeezing the buttons, not knowing how hard was maximum pressure. (I think it was GT, was a while ago since I've always used real force-feedback wheels since...)
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For PS3, I don't recall any games that used them. For PS2, there was this little, unknown game no one has heard of called Metal Gear Solid 3 that used them.
A soft or hard press made the difference between choking an enemy and slitting their throat. Or between a slicing action and a stabbing action while in melee combat. It was rather nice once you got used to it, but from what I can tell, Metal Gear Solid 4 switched away from that system.
... the first time... (Score:2)
I'm mildly interested in PS4.
/>rant/ /. pimping pageviews for gain, or just not paying attention in the subQ? What, repeating yourself is going to improve the story?
I'm more interested in why this shows up in my feed twice. Like you think I didn't hear you the first time, you have to repeat yourself?
Or is
Go ahead, tell me me it's my f
GPU already years out of date (Score:3, Interesting)
Not to mention only 8GB RAM shared between GPU & CPU, I'm sure that'll last us for years to come!
Re:GPU already years out of date (Score:4, Insightful)
1.8 teraflops, 800MHz clock speed... so they're aiming for a GPU with roughly the same power of something nVidia released in 2010?
Not to mention only 8GB RAM shared between GPU & CPU, I'm sure that'll last us for years to come!
Two pieces of fairness here...
1.) the PS3 had 256MBytes of RAM on its release.
2.) like every other console, it can get away with having lower specs than a general purpose PC - it doesn't have to run an operating system in the same sense that a desktop does; in broad terms it's closer to ESXi and its requirements than Win7/OSX/Ubuntu in its, so far more of that RAM can go to the game itself.
Bonus: Even if we postulate that the OS takes a gig of RAM itself, 7GB is roughly 1/3 of a single layer Blu-Ray disc. I know that HD textures can eat up graphics RAM pretty quickly, but is it really limiting to have 1/3 of a game in RAM at a time? Let's face it, console game creation has always involved working within some incredibly tight limits...even Crysis 3 doesn't require that amount of RAM to play. If 7GB of RAM and streaming the rest from an internal hard disk is a constraint, then I'd be forced to assume that the people writing games cut their teeth on ActiveX controls...
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As for gpu power.. I agree that it's a little skimpy, but it's because the
does it run Linux (Score:2)
You know like the PS3 used to?
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No, it runs BSD instead.
No analog buttons but PS2 game support? (Score:3)
The DualShock 4 controller that's standard on the PS4 eliminates one feature that was seldom used on the PS3 —the analog face buttons..."
So how will PS2 games like Metal Gear Solid 2 be playable? Canceling a shot by easing off the fire button is crucial.
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They're not talking about the triggers, they're talking about the 4 face buttons...
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Yes, exactly. Ever played MGS2?
Still no pictures? (Score:2)
I'm curious why they haven't revealed what it looks like yet.
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I'm not going to hold my nose because of a 4 year old Linux thing
I disagree. If the management responsible for Sony's behavior in the George Hotz and Lik Sang cases has neither left nor repented, I don't see how I can forgive Sony.
Nuh uh (Score:5, Interesting)
No hardware compatibility, no emulation == no buy.
And I agree with you: I *am* going to hold my nose because of that linux thing. That was uncalled for. "Here! Have this console with this feature! Got it? Ok, yeah, that feature? We're taking that out."
I just can't see giving Sony any more money; as they chose to make it so that only used, older units will play the titles in my game library, then so be it: Used, older units is what I will buy when the ones I have go nipples north. I've already dedicated more shelves (and system inputs) to game machines than most people bother to; no more.
There's a silver lining to this, too... the used game market for the previous and earlier generation machines is inexpensive and rich with titles. Couldn't find and play all the good ones if I played one a day for the rest of my life. There are a few titles that have basically infinite re-playability, too, because they're about interacting with other people. So.... pfbbbt.
DNAS error -103 (Score:5, Informative)
There are a few titles that have basically infinite re-playability, too, because they're about interacting with other people.
If by "interacting with other people" you mean "online play", Sony is known for closing these titles' matchmaking servers with DNAS error -103 ("This software title is not in service") to make you buy the sequel. If by "interacting with other people" you mean something else, please elaborate.
Re:DNAS error -103 (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah, I'm a bit concerned on this front, but for a different reason.
I bought my PS3 a few years back because then it was a reasonable price for:
1. 3D Bluray player
2. It streamed Netflix 3. Now, it also streams Amazon Prime
4. Oh...apparently it plays games too.
I use it a great deal for watching HD YouTube these days, and streaming NF and AP.
I've bought like 3 games, I tried Red Dead Redemption and love the game, but can never get the hang of it.
I used to could play game quite well as a kid, but I can't seem to get the real memory and muscle memory to get down all the freakin' controls on the dual shock. Two joy sticks (that also are press-able buttons) and the other plethora of buttons, and then on top...this new (to me) 3rd person view.
I do ok till a gunfight hits, and next thing I know, I'm staring at the sky or the ground and blood stains are filling the screen.
I guess I need to find 2-3 weekends in a row, with nothing else to do but sit down and learn the damned controller.
The games look cool, I would thing that the Batman Arkham Asylum would be fun, but shit, I don't think I stand a chance to play that one till I can somehow develop the muscle memory for the controllers.
Anyway, I digress, but I bought the PS3 mostly as a nice BR player and streaming machine.
I hope those functionalities aren't dropped anytime soon after the PS4 comes out.
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I'm pretty sure that Netflix will develop support for the PS4, although it may or may not be there on release day. As far as blu-ray player goes, you might be better off getting a dedicated blu-ray p
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Well, I'm hoping that when the PS4 comes out..that Sony doesn't turn of the network and make my PS3 console useless for streaming, etc....
The PS3 was a pre
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Hello it's 2013, 2006 want's it's PS2 issue back.
Yes, Sony does shut down older PS2 game servers which is the ONLY way to see that DNAS error since DNAS is a PS2 thing....if they're not all that popular and after a few years. SCEA can't help it if you were so busy playing same-screen SNES multiplayer on an SDTV to not get your PS2 till after a few servers got shut down.
There ARE PS2 games with online mutliplayer still functional.
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Part of the reason PSN is free is because the servers are run by the publishers, not Sony. I believe that Sony may host a game server if the developer or publisher pays for it, but the Sony PSN servers mainly handle infrastructure, friends lists, updates, etc.
Sony doesn't dictate when a game's servers should go dark. If a game is no longer supported, blame the publisher.
Re:Nuh uh (Score:5, Insightful)
No hardware compatibility, no emulation == no buy.
Why not? Don't you already have a PS3 you can play your PS3 games on? It's a brand new console. Backwards compatibility didn't help the Atari 7800, and it didn't help the Sega Genesis much either. Why spend so much effort engineering in backwards compatibility when you can just play your old console?
When DVDs came out, I didn't bitch that they weren't backwards compatible with what I already had. I kept my VCR and watched my tapes on that when I wanted to, and watched DVDs when I wanted to do that. What's so hard about that?
Promising backwards compatibility and then removing it is a shitty thing to do to your customers. Being up front about the lack of a feature that's barely useful is doing things right for a change.
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Backwards compatibility did help the PS2, along with Nintendo's long line of portables. But the PS3 architecture is unsustainable, so there was never any chance those games would be supported by the PS4. The best one can hope for is that they'll be recompiled for the new architecture and put up on Sony's download shop someday in the future.
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If the PS4 isn't powerful enough to emulate a PS3 in software, then what makes it powerful enough to warrant obsoleting the PS3? Pretty much every previous generation has had this capability (ignoring engineered incompatibility, like cartridges).
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A lot? Gee the only ones I know of that don't work are a few Japanese PS1 games in Japanese PS2s, and the PS1 X-files game which does not work properly in either a PS2 or PS3 (the game obvious breaks the TRC that works on a release PS1 but fails in the "perfect tech-doc PS1's in the PS2 and the emulated version of same PS3)
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Atari? VHS? Is it too much to ask for technology to march forward a bit?
This isn't the 80s anymore. We have the technology, we can rebu- no wait ... we can emulate! I'm not a SW monkey, so maybe someone else can answer this : how hard is it to take an existing game and transpose it into emulator language? Or, for some outside the box thinking... what's stopping Sony from just finding some guy on the internet who wrote a Playstation emulator, and paying him a couple grand for the rights to use it? Say
PlayStation 1 is emulated (Score:2)
what's stopping Sony from just finding some guy on the internet who wrote a Playstation emulator, and paying him a couple grand for the rights to use it?
PlayStation 1 is already well emulated, on the PSP no less. Let me know when PlayStation 2 or 3 is emulated in a way compatible with over 75% of games. The Xbox emulator on the Xbox 360 never got much above 50%.
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PCSX2 emulates a lot of games properly on PC.
It's compatibility list currently stands at 78.25% of games:
http://pcsx2.net/compatibility-list.html [pcsx2.net]
Console makers ban copylefted software (Score:2)
Re:Nuh uh (Why not?) (Score:2)
Why not? Because I don't have to, because a new ps4 is not a necessity. Since there is no backwards compatibility I have no compelling reason to choose this Sony product over any other game console. It will be easy for me to follow my conscience and choose to purchase from a company with higher standards of conduct. I don't trust Sony, trust is earned, they have proved themselves untrustworthy. Sometimes it's hard to make a consumer decision but this couldn't be simpler.
DVD players with VCD back-compat (Score:2)
When DVDs came out, I didn't bitch that they weren't backwards compatible with what I already had.
My first DVD player could play music CDs, MP3 CDs, and VCDs. My second DVD player could play music CDs, MP3 CDs, and CDs with MPEG-4 ASP video and MP3 audio in an AVI container.
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Convenience. You do not need a different machine to run each different piece of software you own. Backwards compatibility is basically what made Microsoft Windows so popular.
Used (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't have a PS3.
Then why do you have PS3 games that you would use with backward compatibility? Or would you be buying used games?
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What do you play your PS3 games on then? And why would that method stop working because a PS4 was connected to your TV?
VCDs work (Score:2)
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So silly, the predecessor of the DVD was the SVCD. NOT the VHS.
Order of precidence:
VHS/BetaMax->Laserdisc->VCD->SVCD->DVD->Bluray/HDDVD
How crude of you to completely ignore the massive number of titles that came out on VCD and SVCD in asia!
And yes, My DVD player plays VCD and SVCD discs just fine, thank you.
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DId your Laserdisc play VHS/Betamax tapes?
Did your VCD play Laserdiscs?
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Considering the physical incompatibility of both the signal encoding methodologies and the physical form factors, no.
But, my dvd player does play vhs tapes. It's a combo deck unit.
Laserdisc was a short lived product that was quickly orphaned. It was never popular enough to be worthwhile for backward compat. To be a marketable feature. VCD and SVCD however were *insanely* popular in asia, and have a physically identically sized form factor disc, made with similar tech. It is trivial to include VCD and SVCD c
And it didn't even make a difference for security (Score:3)
"Here! Have this console with this feature! Got it? Ok, yeah, that feature? We're taking that out."
Sony claimed that removing Linux from the older systems was for security, but the PS3 ended up getting hacked to hell anyway. Sony really should have lost that lawsuit over removing a feature from the old models.
With consoles, the best versions are generally the first or second versions, because over time, the company releases systems with fewer and fewer features.
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Sony really should have lost that lawsuit over removing a feature from the old models.
No, they shouldn't because the actual choice is the users. You can keep Linux, but then because you're not running a recent firmware they don't "trust" your PS3 so you lose PSN access. That's it. You have a choice, Linux on the PS3 (which wasn't all that special anyway) or PSN. The update that removes Linux capability warns you in no uncertain terms what it does, and requests confirmation, twice, before it does it.
because over time, the company releases systems with fewer and fewer features.
Yes, cost reduction...since if people aren't willing to buy your console at 299 one way t
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
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like most people you underestimate the advantage of using unified memory. there's no data transfer on the bus when you want to send data calculated from the cpu onto the gpu, the graphics perf are going to be vastly superior to an "equivalent" PC when we devs tune our engine to make the most of it.
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Unified memory in PCs (Score:3)
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I agree. I'm still boycotting Sony, they are bullies in corporate shirts.
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Some silly Linux thing eh? Let's translate it into cars, as we are on slashdot.
You can no longer use brand X gas in your car you must use brand Y. You're okay with that, right?
But you can no longer use wheels on your car and you have a problem with that.
You forget that some of us paid close to $1000 when it first came out, with the understanding that it could play games, do it's sony thing, play blueray disks, and run Linux.
So I deserve some of that original money back. I don't like being held up for about
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Barely 3 years since it was retroactively and unilaterally removed from existing systems.
The rootkit thing happened in 2006, not 1998.
Ah yes! More sequels! Fuck originality, I want to know what Madden 45 looks like!
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Barely 3 years since it was retroactively and unilaterally removed from existing systems.
Excuse me? I had a YDL on install on my PS3 and it wasn't retroactive or Unilateral. you had to agree to do it, and in fact if you upgrade an OtherOS equipped PS3 to modern firmware it will warn you what will happen and asks you to confirm twice, not just once as it would normally.
Your choice, you can keep OtherOS and lose PSN or vice versa.
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I hope the Ouya console leads a new generation of cheap Android consoles that puts Sony out of business once and for all.
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The answer is, as always, "not as good as it will on the PC."
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Get a PC. Sadly it will likely have on par or better graphical fidelity by the time PS4 is released, and playing FPS like bioshock on a controller is a task for teens who just don't know better.
Or don't remember the whole "PC vs consoles in the same game, bad PC gamers being gods destroying console players with their terrible control scheme".
If you want Linux, get Ouya (Score:4, Interesting)
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Exactly, I'm done with the 'Big Boy's', and my bro is done with Xbox. Ouya and Indie all the way for me!. They can shove their $70 games and $600 Consoles up their rectums.
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Ouya is Android, not Linux.
Android is Linux, but not GNU/Linux (Score:3)
Ouya is Android
Agreed.
not Linux.
Android is not GNU/Linux [gnu.org], but it does use the Linux kernel, and some people have reported success running a userspace based on GNU in a chroot [debian.org] alongside Android.
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A corrupt slashdot luser has infiltrated the moderation system to downmod all my posts while impersonating me.
Then create an account to prevent this from happening.
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Then perhaps you should upgrade to the PlayStation 4's built-in web browser, which uses an optimized data structure for hosts file lookups. With several GB of RAM, what's 14 MB for a DNS firewall config?
</sarcasm>