Sexism Still a Problem At E3 737
An anonymous reader writes "Now that E3 has wound down and the big product announcements are out of the way, its time to take a step back and look at the culture represented by the giant gaming show. 'The presence of scantily clad women hawking games and gizmos seemed in particular contrast to a report released this week by the Entertainment Software Association, which organizes the gaming industry's annual trade show. It found that 45 percent of the entire gaming population is now women, and women make up 46 percent of the most frequent game buyers.' While there are fewer 'booth babes' than in earlier shows (and while some are trying to bring balance by adding 'booth bros'), the conference organizers are happy to let exhibitors make their own policy. By contrast, the Penny Arcade Expo forbids 'booth babes,' a controversial but widely lauded stance. A recent article in Kotaku about this year's E3 notes, 'For every confident cosplayer who might do the job at a con, I am seeing dozens of companies trying to sell me hundreds of women. They are not drawing my attention to the content of their games, or to their tactics or techniques. They are drawing my attention to thigh-high boots, to low-cut shirts, and, frankly, to the hard work of a really expensive bra. So much of what I see here at E3 is aimed directly at the lizard hindbrain of a 13-year-old boy. But you have to be 18 to get into the show, and it's nominally for industry professionals. Perhaps someday we—men and women alike—can all be treated like the grown-ups we theoretically are, and be trusted to judge a game by its content... not its double-D cover.'"
doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
If the industry's most prominent trade show looks like it was organized by teenage boys, it's not going to do much to dispel the stereotype that games are just something for teenage boys.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Most at 30 are just smart enough to pretend otherwise to avoid arousing politically correct morons.
FTFY
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Ooh, 'politically correct'. How about "Most at 30 are just smart enough to handle the concept of 'situational relevance'"
Re: (Score:2)
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:4, Insightful)
Geez, what's the problem. Gaming is *still* according to the numbers, a male dominated interests, what is wrong with catering to your main audience? No matter how old a (straight) guy is, he is never going to get tired of looking at scantily clad women. Doesn't matter if your 13 or 63, we still like looking at tight, cute asses.
Not everything has to conform to political correctness. What's wrong with letting guys be guys, and enjoy things men like?
When the women outnumber the men, are we going to complain then that there are too many booth bros?
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
First, I take exception to this remark. I'm a 38-year-old straight guy (I find women WAY more attractive than men), but this sort of transparent ploy just seems pathetic to me. It is not a turn-on to see women desperately flirting with me when I know all they want is for me to buy their product. People like to talk about sexism towards men: THAT Is sexism towards men. "Oh, put a sexy lady in front of him and he'll do anything we tell him to." Ugh.
Second, did you see the numbers above? "45 percent of the entire gaming population is now women, and women make up 46 percent of the most frequent game buyers." It is *not* a male-dominated industry any more.
(I'm not even going to get into the use of women as decorative objects because someone who complains about "political correctness" isn't going to see anything wrong with that anyway, I figure.)
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Interesting)
Interestingly, the article points out that at E3 (a trade show), they are selling to distributors, not gamers. The boobs aren't there for you, the gamer, the boobs are there for the non-gamers who they need to convince to distribute their software. They need to attract people who aren't impressed by gameplay itself.
Like many heterosexual male gamers, I am very interested in boobs, but I don't need to see boobs to go to a gaming trade show. The only porn I need is the graphics porn. In fact, having that many boobs in your face, but having them be off limits, can get old. They are about the most numerous group of hot women you will ever find jammed into a convention center, and none of them are there for actual (unpaid) socializing.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it wrong to have the rest of the booth personnel there? After all, they are simply objects with the sole purpose of showing off corporate propaganda? Or barristas, living coffee machines? Or any other employee?
In fact, that's pretty much the definition of business - a setting where other people are primarily valued based on what you can get from them. "Nothing personal, just business." Why does this suddenly stop being okay when "what you can get" is sex appeal? Sure, it means that their abilities are likely under-utilized, but so are burger flipper's. Is this simply a continuation of the general "sex is sinful" -meme that still plagues the US?
We obviously do, as plenty of women are employed outside these professions. The issue is whether any can be hired for them.
All beings are driven by their instincts, that's their purpose. Why single out "carnal" instincts? Because sex is a sin?
That is obviously untrue, as people of either gender often go out of their way to appear attractive.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, i mean it's like gaming is the only area where nice looking young women are there to promote something. In contrast to... let's say cheerleading... which is only to be seen as an artist sport event where football happens at the side, and great care was taken by the costume designers to hide away the womens bodies appropriatly.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but I also hear people (mostly women) bitch about strip clubs, even though that's the exact same context as a Chippendale gig.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not sure about you, but I'm a man with advanced features like "a brain" and "thought processes", rather than an automaton that runs purely on "hardwired" stimulus-response reactions.
Re: doesn't help people take games seriously eithe (Score:4, Insightful)
Why would I want to hit on every busty 20-year-old? Attraction among advanced creatures like humans is based on considerably more than mere first-physical-sight. There are women I'm attracted to and those I'm not, and this is not usually based on randomly pointing to people I pass on the street...
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:4, Interesting)
'situational relevance' sounds like the 'kardashian adult' version of a child screaming "but we're not playing by those rules now!" The fact is that men are hardwired to be attracted to attractive women regardless of the situation. It's about time that feminists accept men for who they are as they demand for women.
This is off topic ,but...
What if they're gay?
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It's not the fact that men find women attractive that feminists have a problem with, it's that some men can't seem to see past physical attractiveness and treat women like equals or human beings.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Interesting)
Most at 30 are just smart enough to pretend otherwise to avoid arousing politically correct morons.
That's a new definition of "Fixing it" of which I was previously unaware. How does advocating treating women as people instead of objects turn them into politically correct morons? Do tell. And everyone else, grab some popcorn. There's about to be a roasting.
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Who is treating them as objects? Could it be the ones who are using them as pawns to score cheap political points?
Because after all, nothing says "you're a real person" more than acting offended by the fact that *some* women can make money by being attractive and pleasant.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah, so you think men are all objects too? We can only respond in the ways your sexist stereotypes dictate?
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Exactly: numerous scientific studies have found that people generally like to be around other attractive people, even regardless of sex (e.g., women prefer to be around attractive women rather than ugly women, men prefer to be around attractive men than ugly men, and of course both sexes like to be around attractive members of the opposite sex). So it's to a business's advantage to hire attractive people, of either sex, to interact with customers.
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Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Because, while most men are respectable individuals - Family men, husbands, boyfriends, parents - We're also about 1% away from being sexually-driven monkeys.
Maybe you are. The fact that you sometimes, or even often, want sex, doesn't make you a "sexually-driven monkey"... not anymore than when I look at a guy and then fantasize about the size of his cock means I'm about to just spazz out, rip off his clothes, and scream "Fuck me now, man-beast!" But I'll fantasize about it.
The thing is, everybody is like this -- only our social expectations differ. If you walked up and grabbed my ass, you'd get slapped with sexual harassment and everyone would publicly denounce you. But privately, you and I both know, there'd be elbow ripping and some "Yeah, we understand." On the other hand, if I walk up and grab your crotch and suck on my lip, you're not going to file for sexual harassment, you're going to follow me to the bathroom and fuck me silly.
Same desires. Different roles.
Not with me, honey (Score:3, Funny)
"If you walked up and grabbed my ass, you'd get slapped with sexual harassment "
No. Not with me. You'd just smile and follow me.
You hair looks great, by the way.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course not. Racism is about hatred for inherent qualities. Appreciating a sexy person isn't. You're utterly bewildered.
Mr. Hanky... I hate to be the one to break it to you, but those of us who admire the sexual presence, poise and potential of women in general don't hate women.
To suggest that we do... that's not very insightful, fella.
I will say that the nonsense spewed by those of you who think that the joyous and interested participation in the roles of the sexes should be categorized as misogyny -- the hatred of women -- should be a lot less widely accepted.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
What's serious about a game? Seriously.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:4, Insightful)
So? This still doesn't help people take the games seriously.
And the worst thing in the world is people not taking games seriously.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps some day we - men and women alike - can act like the grown-ups we theoretically are and not get offended by the sight of the human body. The US had a shit fit over the sight of a tasselled nipple at a sporting event but regularly enjoys media which features vagabond refugees shooting 'dead' people in the face. The endgame of extremist feminists looks very like that of extremist religions, with women chastely covered up and seperated from the lecherous menfolk for fear they will be overcome by their urges.
These backwards puritans are why US society is as demented as it is. Sort yourselves out.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Informative)
In protest of rapant neo-puritanism: E13 2013 Booth Babe Pics [legitreviews.com]
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:4, Insightful)
Since the 80's guys (or young men) that played video games were mocked as being undesirable by women. Often this was done by women themselves. Now all of a sudden they decide they want in on what we've loved for years and fuck you it needs to change now.
Fuck that noise.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh...damn it. I remember when booth babes were attractive, I was E3 1997 and '98, but out of all those pictures I really saw 3-4 that would cover "attractive." But let's be realistic, E3 has nothing, and I mean nothing on automakers and the big car shows.
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In support of rampant prudishness, stock up now:
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Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Insightful)
I support equality, equality of opportunity, equality of rights, and equality of compensation, let every man or woman stand on their own merits. As long as feminism supports that goal, I will support feminism.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:5, Informative)
If the industry's most prominent trade show looks like it was organized by teenage boys, it's not going to do much to dispel the stereotype that games are just something for teenage boys.
Most trade shows look like this. There's an old adage in marketing: Sex sells. It doesn't matter if 46, or 48%, or even 51% of the population is women buying video games. We have a culture that endorses the objectification of women, to the point that women aren't making purchasing decisions based on the endorsement of a scantily clad woman -- but they aren't not making a purchasing decision on that basis either. And that's the crux of the matter. Sex sells games to men.. and for women, well... as long as it isn't driving them away, who cares?
Yes, the 600,000 polygon "realistic boob bounce" graphics are in many games... but we'll play them anyway because hey, if we can't escape the blatant sexism everywhere else... why would video games be different? Not to say I wouldn't appreciate a knob or switch in the options to say "Disable 13 Year Old Boy Mode", but I'm not going to go all "Achievement Unlocked: Raging Bitch Mode" because of it either. And that's what we inevitably are labelled should we ask for realistic looking women, heroes, etc., rather than the "armor bikinis" and the boobs bigger than their heads...
Again, not to say it's right, just that, as a woman gamer... I pick and choose my battles. And if I had one wish I could cast upon the entire video game industry, it wouldn't be "and make girls in games realistic and playable"... but to bomb Square Enix and it's peripheral companies into oblivion because if ever there was a plague of locusts to descend upon everything we love and enjoy in the world... it's Square Enix. x_x
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Not all women are feminists.
A lot of women understand their place in society.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:4, Insightful)
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What is extremist about people realizing their place in society?
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:4, Informative)
If the industry's most prominent trade show looks like it was organized by teenage boys, it's not going to do much to dispel the stereotype that games are just something for teenage boys.
Lets face it, teen age boys don't have the attention span to organize much of anything.
Contrary to the rantings in the summary above (as well as yours), it is the demographics of the attendees that determine the character of the show.
When there start to be 45% females in the attendance the situation will change.
All you need do is fire up Google image search and look for E3 show floor images and you will find it looks surprisingly
like a Muslim street scene, with hardly any women in sight.
I'd say the show knows its audience very well.
Besides, the whole rant is based on the assumption that most women disapprove of having scantily clad women
running around, and there is almost no place other than a church service where there is any evidence
of this.
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There is a missing "n" in that sentence, but man, it sure does make it amusing. For once I'm glad I can't edit it.
Re:doesn't help people take games seriously either (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll do that, but I have to warn you that if the "hostility" is similar to what's found at atheist conferences (elevator-gate) or developer's conferences (dongle-gate) I'm not exactly going to be horrified.
This is bullshit. (Score:3, Insightful)
Every industry does the same thing, it's just the gaming industry folk live in caves and don't have any clue what happens outside their cave.
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Re:This is bullshit. (Score:4, Insightful)
Every industry does the same thing
This is absolutely not true. The vast majority of industry trade shows look quite professional. A small minority of industries that attract people with developmental problems (automobiles, guns, and games) don't.
This is stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Agreed, it's stupid (Score:2, Insightful)
E3 exists to show off games and try to get people into the idea of buying them, not to pander to feminist sensibilities.
It so absolutely makes business sense to repel half of your target market (and more than that of your potential target market) in order to pursue a small marginal edge in your existing customer base.
Well, that or maybe the corporate management are indulging themselves at the expense of the business itself. But we know that that never happens.
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Re:Agreed, it's stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Agreed, it's stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Look at what those statistics actually say.
The first says women make up "45% of the entire gaming community." This includes mobile games like Candy Crush Saga and Words with Friends that aren't represented at E3. Women play video games. It doesn't mean they're playing the same video games as men. In fact, I know women who would be shocked if the label "gamer" was applied to them, despite them spending more time playing "video games" than I play. To them, Borderland, Skyrim, and other titles more likely to be represented at E3 are "video games" and what they play are not video games.
The second says women make up 46% of the most frequent game buyers. I know that I buy a hell of a lot more games for my mobile device than I buy for my PC, because the games are so much less expensive on my mobile device and I always have my mobile device with me. I also know that when I buy a game it is sometimes a gift, or a game for my kid. How does my purchase reflect *me* as the target audience? It doesn't. To put some context on this: even though I've spent WAY more time playing Civilization V, I only purchased it once, versus the many, many purchases I've spent LESS time playing on my phone. Using your logic this would make me more of a "mobile gamer" than a "PC gamer", but the opposite is actually true.
In short, both these statistics are absolutely meaningless in this context. Women don't make up even close to half of the market for the games and systems at E3.
Re:Agreed, it's stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
Pardon my ignorance, by why is it repulsive to see attractive people at product promotion booths? As a man, I buy products all the time with attractive, often partially clad men advertising them all the time. Personal grooming products, cars, clothing, sports equipment etc.. all promoted by over idealized men. Why are women so offended when they see over idealized, attractive women advertising products?
I don't hear cries of sexist when Wendy's advertises their latest salad offering with a shirtless man at poolside on national TV. Pick one ladies, you cant be both "equal" and more-than-equal at the same time.
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Why are women so offended when they see over idealized, attractive women advertising products?
First of all, it contributes to the objectification of women. The pervasive idea in our society that women are pretty things to parade around, and if you're really successful, then you'll get one of your very own to show off to your friends. This hurts men too, by the way -- it pushes the idea that your value as a man is directly proportional to your ability to attract a beautiful woman.
Your analogy to using attractive men to sell, e.g., clothing doesn't work. In those cases, the message is "Buy our prod
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Just like people with homosexual tendencies are often the loudest homophobes, I suspect people with sexist tendencies are often the loudest crusaders against sexism. So don't generalize from your own dysfunctions to the rest of society.
Besides, weird as that may seem to you, people actually enjoy being objectified occasionally, and the
Re:Agreed, it's stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Pardon my ignorance, by why is it repulsive to see attractive people at product promotion booths?
It's not, and as one of the linked articles pointed out, the ban on booth babes at PAX didn't stop some companies having attractive women there to sell stuff -- the difference being that said women were dressed normally, and actually knew all about what they were selling (that is, they were regular salespeople for the company that happened to be women). If you can't see the difference between that and booth babes then you are part of the problem.
Re:Agreed, it's stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Feminism has never been about equality. Equal Rights Movements were about equal rights. The two aren't the same.
Some 45% of gamers are women. They don't care. This is a small vocal minority that is complaining. You can (and should) ignore them.
I believe in equal rights for all. No special rights for anyone.
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Absolutely. I will consider feminism to be valid when I see them protesting because a woman's domestic violence court case did not result in the same amount of time that a man would have received. For the record, however, topless women are perfectly legal in my state as are topless men.
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Except it doesn't repel half their target market.
Re:This is stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention that the PAX ban doesn't, well, work. There are still booth babes in the expo hall. As far as I know, they have to be able to answer questions about the game/games being demoed at the booth, and then they "aren't a booth babe" any more.
So you wind up with a whole bunch of costumed female presenters who "aren't booth babes" in the PAX expo hall, and PAX can act all self-righteous.
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Maybe you are very mature, but let's face it, most gamers do act like 13 year old boys.
Maybe the 13 year old boys are acting like 13 year old boys, but that just means they are acting their age. But for the rest of the people out there that play video games I doubt that statement is really that valid any more. Don't forget that the Atari 2600 came out in 1977 and that means that even if you were born the same year it came out, you would be roughly 36 years old. Those that grew up playing that console are likely in their mid-40's at this point!
I think the problem is that we really need a bet
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If the industry's most prominent trade show looks like it was organized by teenage boys, it's not going to do much to dispel the stereotype that games are just something for teenage boys.
The average gamer is in their late 20s to 30s and despise 13 year old boys... usually either because it's a twitch game and they're being douchebags or have no lives outside the game (there is, afterall, no method yet of creating public servers that match people based on skill automatically... and attempts to create tiered servers have been a cluster-fuck of fail...), or because their maturity is so blatantly painful that it's only really tolerable with large amounts of beer and/or marijuana... which seem t
Re:This is stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention that all kinds of people sell their bodies. Carpenters sell they're spines, factory assembler's their carpal tunnels, firefighters their lungs. We just happen to live in a prudish society that demeans renting out one's sexual bits, even though it is probably easier to keep them from getting damaged than it is to prevent the other types of physical problems people accept money for on a daily basis.
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I find your comment quite misogynist. These girls are just working. They aren't whores.
Well, the comment was misogynist. That said, it may not be entirely inaccurate -- they aren't selling sex per-se, but they are selling sex appeal, and when you think about it, that's the same thing the prostitute is selling: Not the sex, but the experience of sex. I know a lot of people make a distinction between, say, a beauty pageant and the prostitute, but in my book, you're in the same line of work... you just offer different services. And yes, I say that as a woman. I don't find a particular problem wi
Problem? (Score:4, Insightful)
I have no problem with scantily clad women. I know many women who have no problem (and rather enjoy) scantily clad women. Just cause it's a problem to you doesn't mean it's a problem to everyone else.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Just cause it's a problem to you doesn't mean it's a problem to everyone else.
Or alternately, just because it's fine with you doesn't mean that it's cool with others. I notice that you're stuck speculating because apparenlty you've never actually, like, talked with (or more to the point, listented to) women on the subject. Hmmmmm.
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Or alternately, just because it's fine with you doesn't mean that it's cool with others.
Why do their opinions matter more than those of anyone else? Why do naysayers get to decide?
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"I notice that you're stuck speculating because apparenlty you've never actually, like, talked with (or more to the point, listented to) women on the subject. Hmmmmm."
Huh? He said specifically he knew many women that were fine with it. I do too. Yes, it's sexist if you want to look at it that way, but primarily against men (presuming that we are brainless idiots who will buy crap simply because there is a healthy young woman nearly nude associated with it.) The girls are getting paid outrageous amounts of m
Re:Problem? (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, you're wrong. I have many female friend active in the cosplay/costuming scene at conventions. Many of them dress in revealing costumes of their favorite characters. I have had discussions with them about this subject and they think the women who make a big deal of it are self conscious and whiney. I have many other friends are well educated who also think that the whole thing is blown out of proportion. So I have talked with and have listened to many women on the subject. If you don't like it then don't buy their games/products, it's that simple.
Re:Problem? (Score:5, Insightful)
Or alternately, just because it's fine with you doesn't mean that it's cool with others. I notice that you're stuck speculating because apparenlty you've never actually, like, talked with (or more to the point, listented to) women on the subject. Hmmmmm.
While I'm in the difficult position of being a woman speaking up on this subject and, of course, feeling in no small way like I have to represent all of womankind when making these comments (guys -- you ever have that problem? Didn't think so)... I'll simply say that, as a general statement, women don't have a problem with other women dressing slutty publicly... they have a problem with it privately. Probably because we're jealous, insecure, and petty on the whole and any woman more attractive than we are is a threat that must be managed or eliminated... the inevitable source of so many cat fights. So it's not dressing slutty to attract men per se that's the problem... or rather, it's not the men's reaction to slutty dressing that causes so much grief... but rather other women's reactions to it.
Not to say that there isn't a wide diversity of opinion... because let's face it: There's more variation within the genders than between them... and it's hard to make generalized statements at all without finding a significant portion left out. But, that said... as a general statement, I'd stand by what I said. See also: Halloween.
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Err, in general, when discussing differences between sexes, you are always a sort of an ambassador of your gender.
But, yeah, it intensifies when there are great numerical differences.
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Conversely, the fact that it's not a problem to you doesn't mean it's not a problem to everyone else.
But this is Slashdot, a website dominated by young, wealthy, white men. So of course sexism is NEVER a problem. Ditto racism or classism or any other -ism. No matter what happens, you can always explain it away and get modded insightful by your peers.
Re:Problem? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Problem? (Score:4, Interesting)
Scantily clad women itself isn't a problem. It is when it is seen as a predominant role for women at these functions that it is a problem.
Bingo. Give this man a medal, he's just hit the nail on the head. Welcome to gender studies 101... you just earned yourself an 'A', dude.
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You mean feminists, not leftists.
The great irony of feminism is that it is actually anti-women.
This is an outrage (Score:2)
The funny thing is the author of the second article seems to actually approve of this sort of thing [kotaku.com].
Oh geez! (Score:2)
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Men and women who spend enormous amounts of time living vicariously through a video screen. Grown up? Not my any definition I know of.
Fun as it can be to talk smack about /.ers, the reality is that there are plenty of adult (as in, actually socially functional, with families, outside social relationships, etc.) gamers.
Which is one reason why this kind of "marketing" is pretty damned stupid. When a fair bit of your target market is people who have the incomes to support a hobby like gaming that takes a fair bit of money -- especially if you're supporting your spouse, children, and even grandchildren doing it -- it's incredibly dumb to pis
46% of game buyers are women? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:46% of game buyers are women? (Score:5, Funny)
You know to dump a woman if she offers you Modern Warfare.
Sexism Still a Problem at Slashdot (Score:2)
At least given the very appropriate banner ad [googlesyndication.com] I was being served along with this story.
More Booth Bros & Babes (Score:4, Insightful)
While there are fewer 'booth babes' than in earlier shows (and while some are trying to bring balance by adding 'booth bros')
Now that is a solution I can get behind. I'm not a hot guy. But I'm not full of shit either -- I know that straight women like hot guys, just like straight men like hot women. There's a hundred thousand years of evolution behind it. Pretending it is not true is stupid. Women are naturally drawn to men with a pronounced V shape from their waist to their shoulders -- a trait I do not posess. And men are naturally drawn to big chests. That is reality.
You can argue that it is not sound economic policy, because it directs consumer spending in ways that are not reflective of product quality. Fine, let's talk about that, and maybe start by making advertising not count as a business expense for tax purposes. But if you are upset because it is objectification (or, more realistically, because you are, like me, not hot) -- you've got to get over it. Pretending it is not true is just lying to yourself. It will not change reality.
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I'm more of a leg man myself.
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Most women I've known are attracted more to a thick wallet. I've seldom seen one trade down, if you know what I mean. Often I've seen them leave the cute hunk once they get a few years of just getting by and land the ugly engineer. Just sayin'.
You raise a strong point. I think there's a function of age involved, at least in my observations. I have some friends who are DJs, and through them I have been friends with a number of very attractive women. When we became friends, they ranged from late 20's to mid 3
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From what I can tell playing League of Legends and Call of Duty, well over 80% of video gamers are gay. At least I assume that's why they all call each other fags all the time.
Sex Sells (Score:2)
Isn#t that rather a general problem ? (Score:2)
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/01/sexism-fashion-models-start-returning-to-us-auto-shows/1 [usatoday.com]
Sexism at comic book convention :
http://everythingstheworst.wordpress.com/tag/sexism-at-comic-book-conventions/ [wordpress.com]
And tehre are similar stuff for gun convention (one of the weapomn show had sexy fashion model on their tank), I even saw it at downright other normal book convention.
I am not saying it is good, It annoy me too, but game convention are not
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That second link was quite funny.
It's basically "Stop making merchandise I do not want to buy!"
Politically correct nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a perfect match. Tweaking the libido is entertainment. Games are entertainment. The age group here is largely young adult, sexually aware.
So, several things. First, the idea that the female psyche isn't tweaked by up front sexuality? That's dead at the door. It's a social thing right now to pretend that sexuality is "mommy magic" and shouldn't be in play, but that is, and has been for decades, just a toxic result of radical women's lib propaganda. Now that is not saying that women shouldn't have equal opportunity in jobs, salary, medical care, marriage, etc -- not at all. Equal opportunity in matters that are not themselves tied to one's sexuality is good (I don't need equal access to an obstetrician, women don't need equal access to a dick doctor. Few will hire a fellow to strip for other fellows, likewise few would hire women to strip for other women. Etc.) But it is saying that the sexes are different, and that's a good thing, and an interesting thing, and altogether something to be celebrated, elevated, emphasized and above all enjoyed.
Next, and standing all by itself, there's *nothing* wrong with marketing one's natural advantages. We do it with minds that are able to wrap around programming and engineering. Athletes do it with bodies that are able to excel under the stresses of sports, pro and amateur. Actors and models do it with looks that please the audience. And so on, ad infinitum. What's absolutely disgusting is when some idiot steps in and decides that some characteristic, sensuality and looks being perfect examples, isn't "appropriate" for someone to use, either personally, or by employing a third party to "bring" it.
Do people with natural advantages have an easier time going down various roads in life? Yes, they do. Do we have *any* right to say that they should not, or cannot, use those advantages to travel those roads? No, we don't -- there's nowhere to derive such a right from.
Here's an important tip on the term "liberation": When you find yourself saying "sure, you can choose to do that if you like", most probably, you're engaged in something along the lines of liberation. However, when you find yourself saying "you can't do that", you really need to look hard at what you're saying because most likely, what you're engaged in is repression, probably direct and senseless repression at that.
If there's something to question about the marketing here, it might be raised as, "Where are the handsome guys as marketing tweaks for the ladies"? If the buying audience is truly equally distributed between the sexes, then if the game companies have any sense (debatable, where's my new MechAssault?) then they'll hit the women in the same nerve centers. You think they don't enjoy interacting with hunky guys? Oh, silly, silly you. :)
And of course, if good looking people, highly sexual people, or people with moles offend ye, then avoid them, by all means. Just don't tell the rest of us what it is we can, should, or will enjoy.
I raise my glass to those who make personal, informed choices.
I raise my middle finger to those who would interfere with them.
Now, let the politically correct bunk commence.
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There is nothing wrong either with using one's natural advantages to make money with activities such as porn or prostitution.
Yet if you ask people around what they think of prostitution, they'll think it's disgusting and that those women are whores.
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For some values of "people", yes. For this person, no -- on both counts. Society at large is pretty dysfunctional when it comes to these issues. That's why such confusion about sexuality in general, paid or not, reigns in the minds of many.
There's a truism that always rises to the top when women claim such behavior is "beneath" them, and that they'll not engage in sexual behavior unti
Correction (Score:2)
Fixed that for you....
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It's only a problem for people that think there is a problem where there isn't.
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can someone explain? (Score:4, Informative)
Apparently, it's sexist when hired female sales staff ("booth babes") wear T-shirts, makeup, and big hair. But apparently it is OK to use your feminine wiles if you declare yourself a feminist and a female technologist [wordpress.com] (and apparently, you don't actually need to know much about technology to do so [linkedin.com]). Can someone who is well versed in the intricacies of sexism and political correctness please explain who is allowed to wear revealing clothes under what circumstances, and who is not?
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I almost got into an argument w/ a coffee shop owner over this. She wanted more male models on the Price is Right. For what? People, even women, like seeing attractive women pushing products they use. Don't believe me? Check out any magazine's advertisements.
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Geez, I didn't know that booth babes were actually slaves to their bosses. I thought they chose their profession, just like fashion models.
So I assume you also object to fashion models? I mean, their bosses tell them to wear revealing clothes and parade up and down in front of men as well.
Surprised they didn't bring this little gem up... (Score:4, Insightful)
people are attracted to hot scantily clad women (Score:3)
Male or female, makes no difference. Women's magazines sell with pictures of women. Men's magazines sell with pictures of women.
Feminist ideology says people are sinful for being attracted to women, and capitalists are especially sinful for capitalizing on this fact. But if you don't happen to share their religion, there's nothing to see here but a brute fact of human preferences that no one needs to feel shame over.
you can start by not being sexist to men (Score:5, Insightful)
So much of what I see here at E3 is aimed directly at the lizard hindbrain of a 13-year-old boy.
Is that some new, clever, more-polite way of saying "aimed at men, who think with their dicks?" 1)Men don't think about sex any more than women do. 2)Men are not interested in promiscuous sex, by and large. 3)Men are not only interested in sex, either. 4)We have agency, and that agency is not controlled any more by our dicks than your agency is controlled by your vagina, thank you very much.
All of the above has been proven with research and studies, which stand in stark face to the crap that just falls out of the mouth of many a feminist in the same breath as complaints about sexism. It's perfectly acceptable to say men think with their genitals and to call them pigs for being interested in sex while calling women interested in sex "empowered." Female nudity is celebrated; male nudity is controversial and rarely if ever portrayed or shown. We're told that women's sexual feature are beautiful, and men's genitals are gross, disgusting, etc.
Furthermore, I am not responsible for content or marketing aimed at my demographic any more than women would be held responsible for content or marketing aimed at them. This is particularly true given that any time this subject comes up with other men, the responses are that it is: cheesy, annoying, eye-roll inducing, and in many cases, not what any of us consider attractive. I don't find blonds with giant breasts to be attractive. Sorry. Don't. Tell that to a bunch of women on a "sexism in the game industry" panel and the response will be some strong variant of "You don't know what you're talking about." Actually, we fuckin' well do. We know better than you are. But it's not convenient to your little rant; what's convenient is to portray us all as drooling over booth babes with hard dicks.
You want equality? Great. So do we. Stop insulting us. Stop repeating sexist, made up bullshit. Stop dismissing us when we tell you you're wrong about prevailing attitudes.
Trade Shows (Score:3)
They're all there because they want to be. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Sex sells. The adage holds because it's true.
It's not always true. In something relevant, like deodorant, perfume, or alcohol; yes, sex definitely sells.
In something less relevant, like hotdogs, sex doesn't sell so well. It can actually be a turnoff. Advertising books have entire sections about this topic.
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Are you implying that adults do not self-insert in the protagonist of whatever novel/movie/game/tv show they're enjoying?