What Valve's Announcements Mean for Gaming 182
Now that we have the full picture of Valve's efforts to bring PC gaming to the living room (SteamOS, dedicated hardware, and a fresh controller design), people are starting to analyze what those efforts will mean for gaming, and what Valve must do to be successful. Eurogamer's Oli Welsh points out that even if Steam Machines aren't able to take the market away from Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo, they put us a step closer to the final console generation. "Valve has hopefully sidestepped the most depressing aspect of console gaming: the enforced obsolescence that makes you consign your entire games collection to a dusty cupboard every five years." GamesRadar notes that Valve's approach is fundamentally different from that of the current console manufacturers because it's about putting more power into the hands of the users. "The takeaway from SteamOS, then, is that openness breeds innovation. Valve's putting the very source code of its operating system in the hands of everyone who wants it just to see what happens. Comparatively, Microsoft is pushing its Windows Store, turning Windows into an increasingly closed platform (i.e. one that charges costly development licensing fees and restricts access to certain content providers)." Everyone's curious to see how the controller will perform, so Gamasutra and Kotaku reached out to a number of game developers who have experimented with prototypes already. "[Dan Tabar of indie studio Data Realms] said the configuration map for the controller allows you to do 'pretty much anything.' For example, developers can slice up a pad into quarters, each one representing a different input, or even into eight radial sections, again, each section representing whatever you want, mapping to key combinations, or to the mouse." Tommy Refenes, co-creator of Super Meat Boy, wrote an in-depth description of his experience with the device. He summed up his reaction by saying, "Great Start, needs some improvements, but I could play any game I wanted with it just fine."
When will the right people get to test controller (Score:5, Insightful)
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I've watched a bunch of stuff (indie-game the movie, Interviews, ext.) with Tommy Refenes and Honestly if I trust anyone's opinion on input it's him. Doesn't mean he couldn't be wrong but if he says it works well that's a pretty good sign to me.
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They're sending out controllers as part of the Steam Box beta. The participants are pulled from Steam users who volunteer and jump through a few hoops, so we'll no doubt see reviews from outside gamers very soon.
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I'd much rather see the headline "pro-gamers get their hands on the steam controller and approve" than anything else.
If the Steam OS is PC gaming for the living room, then the controller needs to be designed for the gamers who inhabit the living room. Lots of families playing there. Lots of casual and social gamers playing there. The prod not so much.
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The dev behind Super Meat Boy (comically difficult side scroller with a cult following) put up a nice synopsis of his experience testing the controller:
http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/62476523677/my-time-with-the-steam-controller [tumblr.com]
Pretty good review for a 3d-printed prototype. Importantly, it seems like it's not fundamentally flawed, and the touchpad based control system works fine in practice.
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TLDR quote for the super lazy:
If you were to ask me to choose between Steam Controller and a 360 controller, I would choose 360. Don’t take that as slight to the controller though because it’s more about the comfort of familiarity over functionality. I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don’t think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don’t think gaming would miss a beat. I’m excited to see what final hardware feels like because I think with the upcoming iterations of the controller we’ll see something that is different, but still feels good.
TL;DR; Great Start, needs some improvements, but I could play any game I wanted with it just fine.
This is the future (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a fantastic leap forward for gaming and open standards. Unfortunately Microsoft is just barely figuring out how to poorly copy the declining success of the Apple model... looks like they'll have to play catch up again.
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This is a fantastic leap forward for gaming and open standards. Unfortunately Microsoft is just barely figuring out how to poorly copy the declining success of the Apple model... looks like they'll have to play catch up again.
"Open standards"? They're trying to grow their market to sell more DRM-based stuff, that's not really open. The Linux kernel is just a tool, not their target.
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Exactly. The Linux kernel is a tool and not a marketing strategy designed to allow the creator to unfairly out-compete you when they decide to enter your market because they see you're doing well or to use their position to extract funds from your customers by forcing them to purchase newer versions of their software to allow those customers to continue to use the best features of your software (c.f. artificial directX restrictions).
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More correctly, Steam is the original App Store. Just like the Apple App Store, except Valve did it first, and curated all the same (Yes, it's curated. Greenlight is merely a way for "the rest of us" to try to submit in a game. If you're not a major publisher, or a well known indie game, it's the only way to get into Valve's App Store).
The reason we h
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Ever heard of Desura? They made it to Linux before Steam did.
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This is an open standard. I'll be able to install Steam OS on my gaming computer, or I can buy the valve hardware, or I can buy third party Steam-boxes. I can also upgrade my "steam-boxes" at will, and continue to use t
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DRM is not a bad thing when used properly, and Steam is an example of it being used properly. Developers need a way to advertise their products, and also make sure they get paid for them. To this end, Steam has been wonderfully supportive of the indy communities and large game studios alike.
DRM is not necesary for steam to achieve these goals in any way.
This is an open standard. I'll be able to install Steam OS on my gaming computer, or I can buy the valve hardware, or I can buy third party Steam-boxes. I can also upgrade my "steam-boxes" at will, and continue to use the Steam software on any platform of my choice should I not like the platform they create. I'll also be able to smartly stream my game to any display device in the house and use an open architecture style of controller that finally breaks the 10 year old original xbox/keyboard mouse paradigm. This compared to what we have now (x-box, playstation, nintendo, windows gaming) is certainly more of an open standard, and quite frankly a welcome revolution.
If it's an open standard, please, explain to me how I port this over to my PowerPC laptop, or how someone else would port it to X architecture.
Is it perfect from a pure fossie standpoint? Probably not.. but the pure Stallman view is never going to be 100% compatible with industry. Still, companies like Google and Valve are figuring out how to create real, profitable business models around open standards. Puritan ideals aside, this is what's best for the end user and should be applauded.
How is it best for me, the end user? I have three computers, and due to DRM I need to download each game on EACH computer once, and one at a time. Without DRM, I can just copy the installer over.
I moved recently, and had no internet for a few days. I could not install games I had on my desktop onto my la
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That's squarely in the realm of the developers. Valve doesn't do any such compatibility work on third party games. If the developers don't upload or update the runtime files, for example patches for older games to run on modern operating systems, the game will not launch properly from Steam. We already see this in many older titles that have to specifically warn that XP, Vista, or 7 might not be a suitable OS for such games because the developers can't be bothered to or otherwise can't create a patch for mo
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Haha, you Slashdot freedom fighters are so funny. Do you have any idea why Valve was so popular in the first place? It's because they could sell games on Windows, and the games just magically keep on working through the years, from XP => Vista => 7 => 8. And all this thanks to Microsoft, not Valve.
What drivel. No wonder you ACd. Microsoft sell a platform, Valve had a enterprising idea 10 years ago that used the platform and it's been a success. Now Microsoft want to get into Appstores, in typical "me too" Microsoft fashion. This is a threat to Valve's business and so like a responsible company head, Newell is working on a plan B, in case MS decide to make it much harder for Steam to exist on Windows.
And how much did Valve pay Microsoft for all those sold games on Microsoft's platform? Not a goddamn cent. There's no appstore.
Microsoft got paid through Windows sales, it is in their interests to make that platform appealing.
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You see, it's because if you want a standard platform for gaming, there's one above the rest - Windows. Like it or not, that's the truth.
What Valve understood, but you fail to understand is that this is the way it WAS. It's no longer true with Windows 8, 8.1 and Microsofts plans and new limitations.
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Pretty sure the only ads you will see are the ones that popup after you quit a game. To me it is more like a "this is on sale!" or "here is something new!" type of notification. More like game news, than ads.
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If there's one thing my home office doesn't lack for, it's disks. Time for another bi-annual throw-out.
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which market (Score:3)
I think Valve's target audience are the console gamers that can't be bothered to build a gaming rig. I know quite a few of them from work. They're intimidated with using a keyboard and mouse for gaming.
I'm not really interested with trying to play 99% of my library on the "big screen". There's really no benefit to bringing the remaining 1% to the TV as they play just fine with what I already have.
I'm not their target audience.
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An Xbox 360 controller works just fine on PC, so k/m isn't really a factor when using the PC as a living room entertainment device.
I wonder what percent of PC gamers are still sitting at a desk rather than playing from the living-room couch or in a home theater.
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An Xbox 360 controller works just fine on PC, so k/m isn't really a factor when using the PC as a living room entertainment device.
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. I can't imagine playing a PC RTS on a console controller,
That implies you have never played a console RTS, if so what do you base the following on?
and you notice a distinct and complete gimping of console RTS's compared to PC RTS's because of the fact that a controller sucks giant donkey dick as an input device when it comes to any advanced RTS's.
#define advanced RTS.
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A machine underneath the TV, where I can play the games I like (got 100+ steam games) on my TV, by hiding away a little box, is really appealing to me.
Currently I have a laptop for gaming that I hook up to the TV (unless I play directly on it but 17" is not
I am disappointed in Valve (Score:5, Funny)
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Samsung & Huawei Consoles (Score:4, Interesting)
Nice, due to this we'll have Samsung and Huawei games consoles. Give it all away.
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1)Smartphones are a necessity. Game consoles are a luxury.
2)A smartphone is useful without buying any app. A game console is a paper weight without a game.
3)Smartphones can be sold for cheap/free because they are subsidized thanks to the 2-year monthly payments. High end proprietary game consoles are also subsidized in the early years thanks to game sa
Cloud gaming (Score:2)
"more power in the hands of the users" (Score:5, Insightful)
What I see is less power in the hands of users as all games become subscription and "early access." The developer is freed from its obligation to ever provide a finished product that actually belongs to the user, rather than being leased or sold "on spec"
Not Valve's operating system (Score:2)
Valve took our OS, improved it, and is going to give it back. It's the Open Source way.
However, there are still a bunch of propriety extensions in SteamOS. But at least with Valve's effort non-Steam users will also benefit.
HL3 (Score:3)
No, the only thing this means is that they're still not working on Half-Life 3.
These are still PC games, ultimately... (Score:2)
And it's why SteamOS I think, doesn't really have a huge draw towards it. Yea on Slashdot it will -- Linux OS made for gaming? What's not to love? But in reality PC gamers prefer the mouse/keyboard combo to play their games, and taking games that work *perfectly fine* in Windows and putting them into a dedicated box to play with a controller (which I still think won't work as well as KB/M) doesn't really have any allure to most 'mainstream' (ie, not technical -- just give me my goddamn game and let me play)
If this works out (Score:5, Insightful)
then Linux really has won. Game consoles are the last piece of customer devices casually used where Linux has not a strong foothold
-e book readers: most based on linux
-all sony entertainment equipment like cameras, television etc (PS3 excluded): Linux
-most medium to high end media players:linux (exclude ipod)
-most phones (except feature phones and iphones): Linux
-netbooks for consumers: chrombook share seems to explode
The last bastion where Linux never got any foothold were all things related to gaming. If steam now makes a "reference design" for a linux based gaming machine, that could settle some battles at ones. This has the potential to kill the PS4 and the XBOX, since every cheap chinese manufacturer can clone the thing. And like android the marketplace will be the cash-cow holding this together.
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Yes, a Linux game console will kill PS4 and Xbox the way Linux killed Wintel boxes. (rolls eyes).
Unless your engine already supports OpenGL (Score:5, Insightful)
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What they are doing almost guarantees real commercial video drivers for linux. Something AMD and NVIDIA have never had a financial interest in really pursuing just became a market place. That alone would likely the single biggest advance in linux gaming in the past 10 years. It's really up to Valve to get the ball rolling, but if they do, and they can get enough games working initially it's going to be a huge advance, and they'll likely skyrocket to Google/Apple levels of success. This is their hail marry,
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Valve has a lot of weight to throw around and it seems like they did just this.
I'm not convinced by the controller design since it seems to lack the haptic feedback of twin stick, but I'm actually quite intrigued by this whole Steam OS thing. If they price their SteamBox ri
Re:Unless your engine already supports OpenGL (Score:4, Interesting)
But when you look at AMD's APU setup, memory is memory.. video memory and main memory are one and the same.. there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to just go ahead and write to individual texels in a texture efficiently, and so forth.. something quite inefficient on a PC with a dedicated video card in the x16 slot.
AMD plans for this API to be "open" so Intel will be free to implement it on their integrated GPU's as well... NVidia, without its own x86/x64 architecture, will be screwed of course.
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>I'm not convinced by the controller design since it seems to lack the haptic feedback of twin stick
I thought that one of teh things Valve was pitching was much-improved haptic feedback. From http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamController/ [steampowered.com] :
"Haptics
Trackpads, by their nature, are less physical than thumbsticks. By themselves, they are “light touch” devices and don’t offer the kind of visceral feedback that players get from pushing joysticks around. As we investigated trackpad
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I'm not a big fan of American football, or any other sport actually. But a "hail mary" is an act of desperation, and it doesn't really apply to Valve. They have lots of money, a great revenue model, and their business is probably increasing, not decreasing. Kind of a ridiculous statement for a company that will be Just Fine even if this product flops utterly and completely.
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This is more like crossing the Rubicon. They're making a point and sticking it in hard.
Re:Unless your engine already supports OpenGL (Score:5, Funny)
The vast majority of triple AAA games aren't ported to the Wii
Just how many AAA AAA AAA games are out there, anyway?
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So the minor data point that Linux Steam only allows you to download/install/run games that have native ports means nothing....
I run Linux most of the time. I run Steam most of the time. I have two Steam installs, one native and one under Wine, simply so I can play most of my games.
Hear that GabeN? This should be your next item! An unsupported checkbox somewhere that lets me download and try to run games not yet supported under my OS. If you could tie into my wineconfigs and run unsupported-but-preconfigure
Oracle v. Google (Score:2)
Do you honestly think Microsoft couldn't make a case against Wine if they needed to?
Microsoft could make a case against Wine in the sense that Oracle could make a case against Android: a losing one.
Re:Unless your engine already supports OpenGL (Score:5, Interesting)
Valve wants native ports, not Wine usage. Their strategy for streaming is sort of a Microsoft tactic. Consumers will find Steaming to be cumbersome and eventually demand native ports from publishers, that's valves goal with streaming; Native ports. They've had plenty of time to figure all this out and gather the data. It's a big risk for them, they aren't just going to throw something out there and hope it catches.
In the end we all need to stop thinking about Wine. It's more of a problem, than a solution.
chicken and the egg (Score:2)
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Wine as a first-class citizen (Score:2)
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C++ threads, Allegro, sockets, dirent.c (Score:2)
You have to deal with different threading, file-system, audio, controller and networking APIs
Threading I'll give you, though C++11 is supposed to take a step toward fixing this [cplusplus.com]. Audio and controller appear to be handled by SDL or Allegro. Networking is why Windows copied the BSD sockets API to make Winsock in the first place. As for file system, there are plenty of thin wrappers that run on Windows and expose rough equivalents of POSIX APIs such as opendir() and the like [demon.co.uk]. Could you explain in more detail?
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AAA game companies are going to want a much better input API than SDL/Allegro. Luckily Valve will give them one: that fancy-schmancy new controller is going to come with a fancy-schmancy new API from Valve. Hopefully they give us a nice kb/mouse API to work with too.
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Nope, wrong, it's just steam on linux really.
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Would have been cool, tho. A fight
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Re: It means there's now one more API to target. (Score:5, Insightful)
Mobile has iffy controls and recurring fees (Score:2)
Talk about dated . . . hello - the world is mobile now.
Good luck making good controls for a platformer on mobile. And good luck playing multiplayer with someone who can't afford upwards of $600 per device per year for a smartphone voice and data plan.
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Good luck making good controls for a platformer on mobile.
By "making controls", do you mean as the game's designer or the hardware's designer? I mean, there are controllers for mobiles, and even a few mobiles with proper game buttons, check this. [willgoo.com]
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Whenever I read of somebody who complains about mobile devices only being capable of touch controls I really read of some bloody idiot who hasn't even tried. PS3 controllers work on Android at least since 4.0. No root required.
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Also I didn't have to buy a controller for my tablet since my PS3 controller connects to it via Bluetooth. All I had to do was to connect it once per USB and now it is registered with my tablet.
The only problem you get with Andro
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Game developers can't rely on the end user to buy a $39.99 controller for a $2.99 game.
Also I didn't have to buy a controller for my tablet since my PS3 controller connects to it via Bluetooth.
So... your correcting him by pointing out that you are using an MSPRP $54.99 controller instead of an MSRP $39.99 controller?
Provided people already own a PS3 (Score:2)
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As on OS Android is very complete. Even if it has a couple of problems.
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I think bfandreas's premise was supposed to be that a significant fraction of mobile gamers are likely to already own a PlayStation 3 console and the controller that was bundled with it. Support in Android games for the Dual Shock 3 will satisfy PS3 owners but not people who own an Xbox 360 (which uses proprietary RF instead of Bluetooth) or a Wii (whose remote Google broke in Android 4.2) instead of a PS3.
Everybody who considers himself a gamer most likely has a controller.
I never really understood that "PC master race" reasoning that has been thrown around for a couple of years. We bought peripherals by the dozen back in the day. I bought a Soundblaster and a joystick for the original Wing Commander. I got a CH Flightstick for the original X-Wing and a fully fledged HOTAS system for Jane's F15. And yet people have a problem with buying a controller even if they like games that require two analogue control
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Everybody who considers himself a gamer most likely has a controller.
Controller yes, PlayStation 3 controller or Xbox 360 wireless receiver not necessarily.
I bought a Soundblaster and a joystick for the original Wing Commander.
Flight simulators and aerial combat simulators happen to be out of fashion on desktop PCs in favor of first-person shooters and real-time strategy and the sort of point-and-click games popular on Facebook, for which a mouse and keyboard happen to be in fashion. Besides, a PC game back then cost a larger fraction of what a controller cost. A controller for mobile costs about as much as five to ten games.
Re::Living Room? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re::Living Room? (Score:4, Insightful)
The living room died so many decades ago, and so many cultures that game don't know what that is,
More houses have a living room than bedrooms — in some cultures, they only have one room, and everyone lives in it. Of course, most of those cultures don't have game consoles. However, you may note that many people do in fact have living rooms or their equivalent, and they seem to still be buying consoles and console games. Otherwise it would have been tough for GTAV to smash all previous sales records.
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That's ridiculous. You're saying that houses with a single room have a living room but NOT a bedroom? The single room serves the both purpouses, and most likely, won't have living-room furniture due to space constraints (My single-room flat is a clear example of that).
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This might be a local term, but what do other places call a 1BR-1BA apartment?
If that's all that's in it, and the "kitchen" is part of the bedroom, then it's a studio. But I had a 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom 600 sq-ft. apartment in Austin with a living room with a semi-separate kitchen. The toilet and shower were in a closet more or less, the sink was in the bedroom, and there was a washer-dryer stack in a literal closet with hookups in. I was happy to pay $600/mo for it since it was five minutes' walk from work. People asked me if I was crazy to pay so much. I explained that I was from Ca
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Good for you. I'll now go back to watching Dr. Who via Netflix, on my Xbox 360, on my big TV screen. Oh and get off my lawn.
Re::Living Room? (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank you, but i spend all my day at work... where of course, i can't play...
traveling home, i'm driving... so i can't also play
at home, i'm in the couch relaxing... i can play some games in a tablet (not a small phone, forget that) or in the big screen. As most tablet games are simple, if i wan't a more rewarding game i must go the the PC (with linux)... or i can play directly on the TV. Valve helped in both solutions.
Mobile is for kids and teenagers, all rest prefer the office or the couch
Public transit (Score:3)
traveling home, i'm driving... so i can't also play
That depends on what city you choose to live in. Some cities have high-quality public transit, allowing use of games designed for mobile platforms such as PlayStation Vita, Nintendo 3DS, iPhone, and Android.
Re::Living Room? (Score:4, Interesting)
Except that mobile gaming is a completely different beast from living room or PC gaming. Mobile gaming is about quick bites, simple controls, and shallow gameplay (this isn't a bad thing, per se). Mobile gaming is casual, by default. Its hard to get into an epic RPG while on the bus, or in the dentist's office. If I'm going to play something like Skyrim, I'm going to do it in a comfy chair, on a good screen, with mature controls.
Tethering a controller to your phone or tab is counterproductive, since you "un-mobiled" mobile gaming, by forcing someone to carry around a controller as well as their device.
Mobile isn't replacing anything, I wish that fallacy would die. Mobile is supplementing a certain part of traditional markets, but it isn't replacing the core of those markets. Looking at console and traditional game sales back this up, they aren't slowing down in relation to rise in mobile device sales. Nor will they, since they fill a very different niche than traditional consoles and PCs for gaming.
Same with the stupid trope that mobile will magically kill traditional PCs... This is said by people who never used their PC for anything more serious than email and light web browsing. There is very little in my daily computer tasks that can be moved to mobile, outside of light email and web duties. Sure, this is a gap MS is targeting (badly) with the Surface Pro, but suddenly we're not talking mobile anymore, but a traditional laptop with a floppy keyboard and optional touch controls. And still it isn't going to be as good as my large screen for most tasks.
The living room died so many decades ago
I'm now picturing a family of four huddled in their backyard streaming watching movies on a 10" tablet. I feel kind of bad for them, since they could be inside, sitting in their living room watching it on an increasingly affordable giant HDTV.
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Exactly how long does it take to build a special purpose PC?
Building is the quick part. Convincing retailers to carry it takes a bit longer. The last four major entrants to the console market had to do something special to get noticed. Nintendo had to disguise its NES as a "toy" by using a finicky front-loading mechanism and a gimmicky robot. Sega had an initially disastrous distribution deal with Tonka during the third generation but made its market during the fourth by being the first to allow "MA-17" (now "M") rated games. Sony and Microsoft had to rely on their
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History rhymes (Score:2)
Dude, that shit you mentioned happened 25 years ago.
That doesn't make needing a gimmick to break into the market any less true now than decades ago. As Mark Twain pointed out: "It is not worth while to try to keep history from repeating itself, for man's character will always make the preventing of the repetitions impossible."
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the opengl support in linux, cheap hardware and opening the game studios takes time. only this year you start to have many commercial games in linux being release month after month, instead of 2 or 3 per year
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Gabe and Valve keep talking about innovation but it's now been nearly 3 years since they floated the piston box prototype and with this new announcement we'll be waiting for another prototype in spring 2014. Exactly how long does it take to build a special purpose PC? That is all this Steam Machine is after all, correct?
The last time I paid attention to what Valve had to say it was Gabe back in 2010 or so talking about how with the Steam platform they would be delivering small incremental updates to Half-Life 2 instead of the "lengthy" episodes or even longer Half-Life 3 box sequels. Sorry Gabe, but 2014 is around the corner meaning it's been 7 years since Half-Life 2 Episode 2. You want the industry to follow your company's lead with Steam and games on demand type development then please lead by example.
While I agree they are overdue for a Half-life 3, I think Valve is being smart about their new console. We aren't talking some giant mega world corporation with deep pockets funding a gaming console. We aren't talking a company that can easily get Nvidia or AMD to just out of the blue, after decades of linux users asking for better drivers, to get them to make some decent drivers. No, see Valve had to get the ground work done. They had to get linux working with Steam, which they did. They managed
Consoles have DRM (Score:3)
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Right, just not through Steam. It's a general purpose computer that is guaranteed to work well for games.
Re:Consoles have DRM (Score:4, Informative)
You've been able to add shortcuts to non-Steam games from within Steam since... oh... forever. I've got a shortcut to notepad in Steam that I rename whatever I want so people that I'm friends with can see shit like...
Dudeman
In non-Steam game
Nerdfest has full-blown AIDS
You can make shortcuts to any executable you want and name it anything you want. It's pretty cool.
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The SteamBox will have whatever hardware Valve decides to include. Valve will be able to choose the CPU and GPU combo that makes the games they intend to run on the device (i.e. Source engine titles, whatever else is on Steam for Linux etc) run the best (including picking a GPU with good OpenGL support)
Valve can also publish a set of specs and say "if you want the best SteamOS experience, buy this hardware.
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Your rebuttal was quite succinct, but I feel it inadequately addressed your concerns with the previous poster's argument.