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SimCity's Empire Has Fallen and Skylines Is Picking Up the Pieces 256

sarahnaomi writes: Colossal Order's SimCity-like game, Cities: Skylines, sold more than half a million copies in its first week. The first 250,000 of those were sold in the first 24 hours, making it the fastest-selling game its publisher, Paradox Interactive, has ever released. Only a week before Skylines was released, game publisher Electronic Arts announced that it was shutting down SimCity developer Maxis' studio in Emeryville, which it acquired in 1997.

"I feel so bad about Maxis closing down," Colossal Order CEO Mariina Hallikainen said. "The older SimCitys were really the inspiration for us to even consider making a city builder." At the same time, Hallikainen admits SimCity's mistakes were Colossal Order's opportunity. "If SimCity was a huge success, which is what we expected, I don't know if Skylines would have ever happened," she said, explaining that it would have been a harder pitch to sell to Paradox if the new SimCity dominated the market.
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SimCity's Empire Has Fallen and Skylines Is Picking Up the Pieces

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:25PM (#49277349)

    Forced to play online. Not enough server support. Too much DLC. Incredibly overpriced DLC.

    Goodbye SimCity, you were great long ago.

    • by TrippTDF ( 513419 ) <hiland.gmail@com> on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:28PM (#49277383)
      EA is a terrible company- it would rather run an amazing franchise into the ground rather than give customers what they really want. I'm glad to see that other companies are picking up what Maxis could no longer do.
      • by eulernet ( 1132389 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @03:08PM (#49278301)

        Once upon a time, I worked for EA.

        The managers from EA were obsessed with the milestones.
        What was important was not the game, but the progress towards its completion, so we had a fixed schedule, and we had to deliver the game at these schedules.
        If you screwed your schedule, you were dead, since they paid when a milestone was reached.
        It was pretty arbitrary.

        The game was cancelled before its end, once they realized that it was not even amusing and probably also because they killed games that had no commercial potential.

        I doubt they changed much since this time.

        • by TechyImmigrant ( 175943 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @03:53PM (#49278643) Homepage Journal

          Once upon a time, I worked for EA.

          The managers from EA were obsessed with the milestones.
          What was important was not the game, but the progress towards its completion, so we had a fixed schedule, and we had to deliver the game at these schedules.
          If you screwed your schedule, you were dead, since they paid when a milestone was reached.
          It was pretty arbitrary.

          The game was cancelled before its end, once they realized that it was not even amusing and probably also because they killed games that had no commercial potential.

          I doubt they changed much since this time.

          I remember EA back in the Apple ][ days. They made some awesome games of clearly higher quality than everyone else. I remember reading how they set up to achieve that, because they were dissatisfied with the products they were seeing.

          Something changed pretty radically.

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward

            Same thing that always happens once money and greed become the goal instead of the ideals and the art. Anything that gets too big is inevitably affected by this situation, whether it be companies, cities, or governments.

          • by nwf ( 25607 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @04:14PM (#49278795)

            Something changed pretty radically.

            I'll bet that something has an M a B and an A in it somewhere. Trying to turn an unpredictable creative process into a factory that produces widgets.

            • by DocHoncho ( 1198543 ) <[dochoncho] [at] [gmail.com]> on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @10:28PM (#49280673) Homepage

              Jim Sterling [youtube.com] ranted about this. Basically, at some point the creative types who started a studio start to feel overwhelmed by the managerial aspects of running a company. So they bring in "professional management," many of whom from come industries entirely unlike the games industry. So some CEO who previously ran a shoe manufacturer gets brought on into a game studio and proceeds to enact policies that would, were making games anything like manufacturing, make things more efficient. Instead, these policies completely destroy the creativity of the team, and eventually the people who were making the great games move on to greener (money ain't the only green!) pastures, leaving a desiccated husk of a studio which continues to churn out garbage hoping desperately to move units based solely on the whatever brand recognition remains intact.

              Whether or not you consider games to be art, creating games is undeniably a creative endeavor. When the bean counters move in with their metrics and demands for predictable results... well, shit like SimCity 2013 happens. If the new management is lucky enough to have a highly regarded franchise, expect them to churn out yearly increments of whatever they think works. You only have to look at the endless Battlefield and Call of Duty releases to see that reliable sales figures is more important than creating new and interesting games. Like OP said, a factory that produces widgets. Formulaic crap is the order of the day, and despite the fact that we all know it sucks, people still eat it up.

              • Stopped playing battlefield and cod ages ago, I don't play online anymore, so for such a short single player campaign it's just not worth it. Been digging into the indie games on steam - some real gems in there - like "This war of mine", depressing as fuck - but still an awesome game.
          • I remember EA back in the Apple ][ days. They made some awesome games of clearly higher quality than everyone else. I remember reading how they set up to achieve that, because they were dissatisfied with the products they were seeing.

            My experience was around 1995, and I was programming a game for the Super Nintendo.

            I believe the game was cancelled because the Super Nintendo market was dying, and they wanted to release games on the newly released Playstation.

            • I'm referring to the early 80s, with things like Hard Hat Mack, Archon II, Pinball Construction Set, The Bard's Tale. At that age I was a consumer, not a developer. I missed the Nintendo thing, since I had 'real' computers.

              So it's safe to say the rot happened sometime between 1985 and 1995.

    • by NotDrWho ( 3543773 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:58PM (#49277661)

      EA's management will just have to console themselves by sleeping on huge piles of money with many beautiful women.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Grishnakh ( 216268 )

        What's sad is that so many beautiful women are really so shallow they'll throw themselves at men like EA CxOs just because of the bucks.

    • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:59PM (#49277671) Journal
      It didn't help that even the parts EA wasn't squeezing for cash(at least not visibly) were also pretty unexciting:

      Teeny-tiny cities, 'agent-based' simulations that purpoted to simulate realistic people and then delivered inchoate little ants that stumbled around randomly filling dwellings and jobs as they bumped into them, cryptic and at times deeply inscrutable simulation behavior.

      A pure cash grab would actually have been better: Take a mixture of SC2000 and SC4000, implement in any reasonably contemporary 3d engine, sit back and dribble out new art assets, building types, and assorted other flavor as DLC. That would have been overt creative bankruptcy; but it would have been a basically sound game.
    • The original Sim City
      was ahead of its time
      not another platform shooter
      it was so new and so fine

      SimCity 2k
      added isometric view,
      a larger land area
      I bought it too

      SimCity 3k
      had its own little quirks
      with landfills and stuff
      but I liked how it works

      SimCity 4
      16 times the size
      and graphics so sweet
      you won't believe your eyes

      Then came SimCity 5
      like a zombie in heat
      Screwed everything in sight
      It was Maxis defeat

      The moral is plain
      for all to see
      give people more, not less
      and they'll pay the fee

      But get greedy and gouge
      for something smaller? goodbye!
      Please shove your DLC
      up your a** and die.

      R.I.P. the REAL SimCities
      they were lost long ago,
      Grieve for what could have been,
      Curse EAs lack of soul!

      Burma Shave

  • Good. Fuck EA. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:27PM (#49277373)

    That is all.

    • They should acquire Ubisoft. Consolidation will fix everything that is wrong with the games industry today! /s

  • by seepho ( 1959226 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:29PM (#49277391)
    But why is no one talking about the traffic issues in Skylines?
    • by weszz ( 710261 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:31PM (#49277413)

      I can work around em, but yea... when my trains all get piled up it is a problem...

      and cars going to the right lane miles before their exit causing a backup with cars merging on is a problem too...

    • by Sowelu ( 713889 )

      Probably because they're not _that_ bad once you get used to how and why roads are different from SimCity? I mean, sure, I expect that things will get tweaked in future patches. I don't know about this design studio but Paradox loves to change their own games, and fixes (meddles with) mechanics in free patches. Still, it hasn't been a game breaker for me yet by any stretch.

    • by Eloking ( 877834 )

      Here's another awesome feature in Cities: Skylines that EA will never allow : Community Mods. Well ok, EA allow mods but mostly superficial things.

      Cities: Skylines come with Steam Workshop and the game can be heavily modded and it's popular enough so you can be sure that if the traffic issue isn't patched, it'll surely be modded quite soon.

      One "little" thing that bugs me about modding is the lack of a centralized workplace for all the game available. Sure Steam Workshop is a good start but I'm still using N

      • by jandrese ( 485 ) <kensama@vt.edu> on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:53PM (#49277617) Homepage Journal
        One thing to be aware of: Cities: Skylines mod support includes a full C# compiler and does not run in a sandbox. It has the potential to install malware on your machine.
        • by Sowelu ( 713889 )

          Oh, interesting. Any links about that?

          • by jandrese ( 485 ) <kensama@vt.edu> on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @02:01PM (#49277681) Homepage Journal
            Steam Community thread [steamcommunity.com].
            • by Sowelu ( 713889 )

              I have mixed feelings. On one hand, people shouldn't be able to attach unsandboxed C# code to house assets and stuff where they might not know what they are getting. On the other hand, that's some pretty awesome power to give modders. Minecraft wouldn't be the game it is today if it wasn't for mods written in (presumably) unsandboxed Java, same with Kerbal Space Program, and this mod policy means someone really could write a downloadable fix for the traffic. Making it completely unsandboxed means you co

              • by jandrese ( 485 )
                They aren't curated. Anybody can put up a mod. There wouldn't be a jillion mods up for the game already if someone had to pick through them all by hand and check for security problems.
        • Having a C# compiler available has nothing to do with it. Any game that runs mods outside of a sandbox is vulnerable to the same security risk. Once you let the code in a mod run on your PC, its game over, C# compiler or no C# compiler.
      • Ok, I have a question. I haven't played any of these games since "SimCity 2000" back in the early 1990s. With this community mod thing, is it possible to build your own transit system like SkyTran (personal rapid transit) and see how that works in the city?

      • by seepho ( 1959226 )
        And SimCity came with a big development team that could work to patch any issues they had after launch. I didn't see anyone jumping through hoops to give them a pass for shipping an incomplete game.
    • by jandrese ( 485 ) <kensama@vt.edu> on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:52PM (#49277599) Homepage Journal
      There is a lot of talk about this on the various gaming boards. People go to insane lengths to work around the traffic model in the game. Apparently the devs are looking into it and may have a patch that helps things, but don't bet your life on it.

      The big lesson is that when a car spawns in Skylines it chooses a path at that very instant and absolutely will not deviate from the path. So all cars will all merge into the same lane because that's the lane that goes to your industrial district if that's how you have your roads laid out. Modders may be able to fix this as well.

      One piece of advice is not to use the built-in traffic circles (roundabouts), because they suck. Instead, build your own out of interstate road segments (the kind that don't have buildings next to them) and exit ramps. The reason is that interstates don't have stoplights on every corner so the traffic will flow through them smoothly. Also, don't be afraid to use the big 6 lane roads. Final tip: the "traffic view" in the statistics only measures road use, not congestion. Simply being heavily trafficked will turn it red, even if there is no appreciable congestion.
    • by medv4380 ( 1604309 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @03:24PM (#49278423)
      Because most of the traffic problems are a result of poor planning, like a real city, and not a result of heavy restrictions like SimCity. Sure it takes a while to create a proper interchange with all the correct on, and off ramps. Well a while until you figure out that all interchanges are a variation of a round about with some pieces removed and an over pass. Too much traffic is a good indication of not enough Interchanges, or connectors. Each industrial area requires its own interchange, or you're looking at an actual traffic nightmare. Just think about the city you live in, and how many highway connectors you have, and what each connector gets you to. Many cities have a highway connector just for their major mall. Don't make huge industrial areas because a single connector wont be able to service them all.
  • Believe the hype (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:30PM (#49277395)

    It really is the SimCity everyone wanted. Shame on EA and Maxis for fooling us with their shoddy game.

  • Mini-review (Score:5, Informative)

    by Sowelu ( 713889 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:30PM (#49277397)

    Got Cities Skylines a couple nights ago, sinking tons of time into it. It seems...adequate I guess? First one that's been even adequate in well over a decade though. Transportation is a little more like the (confusingly, unrelated) Cities XL series...in that roads actually have lanes that actually matter. Not a perfect implementation, there's quirks like a lack of a way to merge two one-way streets directly onto a two-way street without allowing a u-turn at the intersection, but it's a heck of a lot better than the nightmare that was SimCity 4's road pathing. Also, unlike Cities XL, the city building part is actually a game instead of a micromanagement chore.

    Game balance is a little meh, but again--better than any other city builder since SC2k. I'd say it's worth it, especially since it isn't sold for AAA-game price. Of course, people who played SimCity 2000 probably don't have the time to blow on city builders these days. It's published by Paradox (Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis) and it shows...none of their games aren't huge enormous time sinks.

    Also, if you don't build graveyards after a certain point, people start complaining about the dead bodies stinking up their houses, and that's hilarious.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Question: Are you German, or not German? If you're German, I'll translate your rating of "adequate" into American as "CLEARLY GAME OF THE YEAR 5* A+++".

    • Re:Mini-review (Score:4, Informative)

      by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @02:34PM (#49278005)

      I think this has come from real life examples. Specifically the company that made the game is in my home city of Tampere, and we had a couple of cases about a year ago where a dead person was discovered in their apartment because of the smell coming from their apartment.

      Their head designer said that quite a few of their various features were inspired by events in their home city.

      • In my city that's happened several times in the past few years, in the same apartment building too.
        One of them was dead for a year I think, another for a month, another for a few weeks...

        One reason not to pay rent and bills by automatic payment, unless you want to become part of the carpet one day.

  • by weszz ( 710261 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:36PM (#49277453)

    I've sunk a bunch of time into it and gotten to 7 tiles so far, feels like a big city and a number of highway entrances, subways, trains etc... feels spacious and i don't have to destroy my early area to keep moving forwards...

    But yea, there are some annoyances like the traffic backups here and there and finding ways that shouldn't be needed around them, but they aren't EA, they set the price lower and have been open about what they are doing. They've built up goodwill so I cut them a lot of slack. It's a good game and worth the time and money.

    Now they start doing stuff like EA has over the years with madden exclusivity, the sim city stuff and everything else, then I won't even look at games they release.

    I didn't know they were coming out with a different Europa Universalis, which is a game I enjoyed many years ago and totally forgot about...

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      It's worth noting that dev company has made mainly city traffic sims before, so its understandable that a lot of the city building is based around traffic modelling. It's an area where they have a lot of expertise.

    • Eu4 is an amazing game that ive sunk nearly 800hrs into, HOI4 is coming out soon and I don't know about PI as a publisher but as a dev house they always release DLCs with a free update (that is paid for by the DLC buying people). Its a very good system that sees games like Crusader Kings 2 still getting updates about 2yrs after it came out.

  • Maxis closing? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:40PM (#49277489)

    If you cared about Maxis as a game studio that made a lot of classic games, they've been gone for a while. EA has long ago assimilated Maxis into the fold.

    If you care about the Maxis name, it is still around. They closed a location in Emeryville, not the entire studio.

  • by tompaulco ( 629533 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:41PM (#49277495) Homepage Journal
    EA screwed up Simcity when it decided to turn it into the Facebook of city builders. Nobody wants to play a single person strategy game online with all their friends. Nobody wants to have to buy content to fix issues with the game.Nobody wants city sizes smaller than the previous version.
    I eventually bought it when they released the offline mode, but I still found it kind of disappointing.
  • Yep! (Score:4, Informative)

    by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @01:52PM (#49277609) Homepage Journal
    EA fucked up SimCity. Because they're EA, I'd guess. You know how everything King Midas touched turned to gold? Everything EA touches turns to shit. I'm still holding a grudge about them turning UO into a WoW-style grindfest, and that was nearly a couple decades ago. It's kind of nice that they put "EA" at the front of a lot of their video game commercials so I know to just stop looking then.

    So yeah, someone came along and did SimCity better than EA. Big surprise. Look for EA to acquire the company and turn it into shit within a couple of years.

    By the way, if you work for EA and want the company to get back in my good graces, all they have to do is prove that they understand what makes a game "fun" and actually make one that is. I don't think they're capable, though. That would require "risk", and there are plenty of suckers out there who will gladly drop $60 on a "Madden" rehash. More and more people have been burned by AAA titles are are starting to buy indy games, though. I've sunk more time into a single sub-$20 indy game than I have the last three AAA titles combined. And if I drop $5 or $10 on an indy game, I don't have super high expectations for it and can only be happily surprised.

    The big publishers talk about how piracy is destroying the industry, but there are plenty of people willing to pay for good games. The big publishers are just incapable of recognizing what makes a game good and expect consumers to just buy into every $60 turd they drop. It's not pirates killing the AAA industry, it's the publishers. And I for one will be happy to see them go.

    • EA fucked up SimCity, really? But what about that Madden thing? Didn't they do the most amazing job re-releasing the same game year after year, charging $50 for it?
  • I have a 9-year old and 11-year old, both into Minecraft, and I thought this might be a fun way to spend a few hours a week together.

    Opinions?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      gokgs.com
    • by Sowelu ( 713889 )

      The original SimCity was useful bonding for me when I was a bit younger than that age, so I'd guess yes.

      Controls are a bit more complicated, roads don't always build the way you'd like them to unless you're obsessively careful, but it's also pretty forgiving about doing crazy stupid sprawling things so probably no harm there.

  • by orange_account ( 904027 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @02:23PM (#49277917)
    I had not heard of this game, but went to read about it on Steam, expecting Windows-only. I was happily surprised to see it runs in Linux. Thanks Colossal Order!
  • by medv4380 ( 1604309 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @02:24PM (#49277921)
    What Simcity got right was all the window dressing. Asteroids, Alien Invasions, Zombie Apocalypse were all decent. However, the basics were utterly flawed. The restrictive play size was a huge issue, and then end game goals being set so that there was no feasible way to accomplish them. It was impossible to get the max population needed for all the unlockables, and have a functioning city. Most of that could be tracked back to the over restrictive play field that forced you to build way too close to make functional traffic. When a real city has to do that they have other tools to make it work that were missing. One way streets would have made a big dent in how things function. You can't make a functional interchange without one way roads. It's not possible. You'll just create a traffic jam if you do. The most annoying bug in Simcity was how much a failure the bus system was. I had perfectly functioning cities that went to mass unemployment after adding a bus system. The buses failed to get people to work on time so consistently that they'd lose their job, then their home, and then I'm swimming in homeless. Remove the bus system and the problem slowly fixed itself. How does a real city address this problem? Buses have routes that go from A to B. Hit a central Hub so the rider can go from B to C. Skyline has bus routes, and though I'm still fiddling with it to figure out how to make it work well it's head and shoulders above dropping down bus stops in hopes that the busses don't pick people up and go in a loop around the block 5 times because 1 person wen't to the previous bus stop so it has to turn around and pick them up. They missed the bus, and can get the next one unless you have no routing system, and you're going with the closest bus stop with people algorithm.

    For having a vastly inferior collection of window dressing. (I kinda miss the zombie attacks). Lack of a Day Night Cycle(days just go by too fast). The base game of Skylines is rock solid. I'm sure the modders will put some of the stuff I miss back in. In the mean time I'm just having fun making a functional Highway network.

    I do miss some of the research unlockables too. Getting unlockables by simply having a large enough population seems unforfilling. I liked having to research the advanced tech at the university.

  • by Maquis196 ( 535256 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @02:34PM (#49278003)

    Their Linux support since Steam on Linux became more then a fever induced dream I had once has been excellent. As publishers go theyve been amazing. So yeah, Skylines is on Linux, go grab a copy (if you play games on that platform).

    1000hrs and counting for PI games on my steam, not sure if I should hate them or love them.

  • Awesome game (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    It's a lot of fun and it runs on Linux. For me I've been getting really bad frame rates, particularly when zoomed in. Apparently the developer is working on Linux performance.

  • native Linux support (Score:4, Informative)

    by drkstr1 ( 2072368 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @03:35PM (#49278509)
    And with native Linux support! No need for winetricks. Nice. Just bought the deluxe edition. Cheers Colossal!

    ~A long time Sim City fan
  • by kuzb ( 724081 ) on Tuesday March 17, 2015 @03:42PM (#49278549)

    Skylines is fun. It's approachable. It's easy to pick up, and difficult to master. It has a mod engine that allows players to modify it in many subtle and extreme ways. It would have done well regardless of whether or not Simcity was successful because Skylines places emphasis on fun and not tedium or publisher profit margins.

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