Microsoft Will Soon Start Bundling Drivers With Windows Store Games (thurrott.com) 102
Microsoft will start bundling drivers with Windows Store games to improve the performance of the game once downloaded. A report on Thurrott adds: This will work by the game download trigging Windows Update to acquire the minimum driver requirements to make sure that application works as intended. This may perturb some users who like having complete control over the driver updates for their hardware as this auto-download mechanism will overwrite the existing installation of the driver. Of course, you can still roll-back the update but hopefully Microsoft gives us a way to stop the auto-download of the driver via the Windows Store when this feature arrives.
Great! (Score:5, Insightful)
What could possibly go wrong?
Re:Great! (Score:5, Insightful)
This might not be a bad thing IF Microsoft prompted you with a dialog box like this first:
"We detected that you're using $GRAPHICSCARD driver $OLDVERSION. This game requires driver version $NEWVERSION. Would you like us to upgrade it?"
Knowing Microsoft, though, they'll automatically "upgrade" the driver in the background and leave you scratching your head for awhile when the screen is stuck at 1024x768 resolution after you reboot.
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This might not be a bad thing IF Microsoft prompted you with a dialog box like this first:
I think the whole point of this is to keep users from having to make the decision. In my experience major release drivers from both Nvidia and AMD have been solid. Most of my non technical friends just accept all updates offered to them via Catalyst or the Gforce app (can't remember the name). I myself have been keeping my drivers updated for the last 6 years and have yet to encounter a problem with any video card I've owned.
Knowing Microsoft, though, they'll automatically "upgrade" the driver in the background and leave you scratching your head for awhile when the screen is stuck at 1024x768 resolution after you reboot
Well, the upgrade process remains to be seen but I suspect they will just make it p
Re: Great! (Score:2)
Bahaha
I am cursing my RX 470. Hyper-V keeps freeze with all but 16.6 on Windows 10. SWTOR on that release makes one screen stay black and a reboot is required to get the screen back after I exit the game.
The other releases fix this bug but server 2016 on my vm gets a system thread exception otherwise on 1 out of 3 reboots.
I got modded -1 troll by some fanboys when I brought this up. Appearrently Nvidia is just as freaking horrible that many 1070 users lock their drivers from June as new bugs are in latest
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Your setup is unconventional so you fall in the category of people that just have to keep on top of it and keep fixing it. But for the other 99.9% of RX 470 users, it's probably a completely different story.
Keep in mind that the auto driver update is ONLY if you do not meet the minimum driver version. That can get abused by gaming companies but that's is a different story all together.
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I've had problems. Mostly because the driver updates shove in all the extra crap that no one wants instead of just the barebones driver.
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I've often installed driver through Windows Updates and they never came with the bloat ware.
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Fuck that. I've seen plenty of times where an updated driver messed things up, whether it's a slight framerate drop or causing blue screens. I only update drivers if it's a major security fix, adds significant new features and/or improves performance, otherwise I stick to the last tried and true driver versions.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's surprising how few users understand that concept.
Re:Great! (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is Microsoft is only looking at the requirements for a single application.
Updating the drivers might work out great for that particular application, while completely borking up others you may have.
On the tablet I use ( Wacom Mobile Studio Pro ) in addition to disabling as much of the telemetry as I can, the home router has
instructions to prevent any tablet data from leaving the local network at all.
If necessary, I can transfer files locally to and from a NAS unit when at home or I can just use a USB stick if necessary.
I want the programs I have running on the tablet to perform without hiccup or issues. Something that's impossible to do when
MS shoves an update down and breaks a bunch of shit in the process.
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If you pay attention to the Windows filesystem, you'll actually see they already have a multi-version solution for many things, but in particular, DLLs.
Many programs that request a specific version of a DLL will get that version to avoid breaking. You don't really appreciate how much bending over backwards they do to make sure things don't break -- they don't have a magic stick / beer goggles that convinces people that things "just-work". They don't, and never have. Probably never will.
Re: Great! (Score:1)
I see you haven't installed windows for a while. Our company bought a couple brand new Windows 10 laptops, after removing the crap-ware, windows was using over 40GB of drive space (not including Program Files or the recovery partition).
Re: (Score:3)
It's actually easy to clean up:
Dism /online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup /ResetBase
This applies to 8/8.1/10. There is a vastly different method for Windows 7.
Note that you lose the ability to uninstall old updates when their files are purged, so it might be best to run this a week or two after patching.
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It can be disabled, but you need to meddle with the registry.
Re: (Score:3)
you don't need to touch the registry. [...] open file location of cortena. Rename the folder.
That really is a worse hack than fucking with the registry.
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I'll appreciate how much bending they do when things actually stop breaking. Until then, the only thing being bent over is consumers while Microsoft forces themselves on us.
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I didn't see it mentioned in the linked article (on thurrott) nor have I seen it brought up in this thread but...
Windows (Pro/Enterprise) has native Hyper-V and docker container support. Largely speculating here but it seems like containers would be a solution to the driver conflict issue e.g. this game can have directx11 and .net 3.5 (and optimized nvidia drive version x) while that game has directx 12 and VC runtime whatever (driver version y). And the two will be isolate/not interfere with one another
Re: (Score:1)
Knowing MS, they will actually hard code the current version as mandatory version, so if the software installed after a year, any newer driver version will be overwritten silently by the obsolete version. This is just a re-incarnation of DLL hell, but this time it is much worse as driver conflicts may actually prevent machine from booting.
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It's Microsoft. There's so many ways it WILL go wrong that making a list is pointless. The software you wrote the list in probably won't work after the next patch set anyway.
I'm starting to get the free upgrade strategy though. Windows 10; so bad that we had no choice but to give it away and hope people took the bait. Turns out they like free stuff better than they like their computer working properly.
DLL-Hell 2.0? [Re:Great!] (Score:2)
So I install software X, and software Y breaks because they share drivers or libraries, and Y is not compatible with the newer version of the shared parts?
This is what the famed DLL-Hell did. Is MS bringing that back? Hell, might as well bring back Clippy to make the nostalgia experience (nightmare) complete.
Re: (Score:1)
They already brought back the Windows 2.0 UI by removing excessive colors and the ability of changing theme, so why not resurrect DLL hell too? Perhaps on next version they will bring back the Program manager?
Re: (Score:2)
You forgot the "better resolution C/E/VGA" style graphics the UI has so tablet users can see the UI and use their fat sticky fingers to navigate which effectively reduces your displays information density to something from the early 90's.
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I seriously doubt this has anything to do with drivers, which are merely there to feed calls to the GPU, and the blame falls on a broken DirectX implementation.
You seriously have no idea WTF you are talking about.
Developers write code that hands off primitives and rendering instructions to DirectX. DirectX is a relatively thin API that exposes functionality in the GPU via the driver.
DirectX is sending roughly the same thing to the driver (barring app developers who choose multiple code paths). So if one driver breaks first and then the other breaks completely at random, it's 100% the problem of the driver devs.
Do you know why driver updates can improve performance
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Nobody will ever notice, and not because the driver update process will be perfect, but because nobody uses the Windows Store.
Obvious Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't play games off Windows Store.
Shamus Young Tried It (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twe... [shamusyoung.com]
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twe... [shamusyoung.com]
I'm sure most here already knew that, but he really lays out how MS doesn't seem to care about the customer experience or competing with Steam (just muscling them out through lock-in). It's sad that Valve can't seem to make the Steambox concept work, but if MS's platform is the one that succeeds, then we all lose.
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If Valve can't make it work I don't know who will.
Re: (Score:1)
I'd like to have a Steambox for the family. It's just out of my budget. After feeding and clothing the kids. I can only afford, maybe a 15 dollar game from steam or gamestop. I'm not an avid gamer, so 250+ bucks for a game system, is a very low priority. Now a Steambox, under 150 bucks. I'd jump on that. I'd finally get my laptop back in evenings, from my kids :-)
Re: (Score:3)
No you got this backwards. There's an obvious problem: People already don't play games off Windows Store.
Re: (Score:2)
That's easy though. They don't have anything good in the store anyway. Any game they have that requires driver updates is most likely also available separately from from other outlets. Some of the games in Windows Store have worse performance than the game acquired elsewhere because the store wants the games to have unnecessary features (it's their new version of Gaming For Windows Live, another attempt to monetize you).
For folks who haven't been follwing the latest... (Score:3, Interesting)
Windows Store == games for windows live, just for Windows 10.
It's basically their own special sandbox that they get a cut of, which is rife with technical hickups, and no guarantee you'll keep what you buy when the service is (nigh inevitably) shut down in (roll 2d8) years.
Lots of multi-platform development tools have added Windows store as a publishing output, but honestly, a regular-old Windows exe put out to GOG/Steam is the best choice, looking at every single example of income streams I've seen.
Re: (Score:3)
Windows Store == games for windows live, just for Windows 10.
It's basically their own special sandbox that they get a cut of, which is rife with technical hickups, and no guarantee you'll keep what you buy when the service is (nigh inevitably) shut down in (roll 2d8) years.
Lots of multi-platform development tools have added Windows store as a publishing output, but honestly, a regular-old Windows exe put out to GOG/Steam is the best choice, looking at every single example of income streams I've seen.
2d8? If I understand the lingo correct that's two 8 sided dice? Try flipping two coins instead. Heads = 1, tails = 0.
Re: (Score:2)
IF NOT XBOX: PunishUser(_IncompatDrivers) (Score:5, Insightful)
PunishUser(_IncompatDrivers)
Re: (Score:2)
More like
IF "MY_MACHINE":
Work()
ELSE:
KindaWork()
Re: Motivation (Score:2)
Easy fix.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem solved.
Really, with Steam, GOG, etc who needs it? I game like crazy and use window 10. Windows store games--not even once.
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Windows store? why? They have no exclusives I want, I generally do not like how the company does business, etc...
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I agree about Microsoft's business practices, but that is not their only problem.
In the posts here and in the articles by Shamus Young (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=34549 [shamusyoung.com]) Kunedog linked to, the software quality of Windows Store in combination with Windows 10 is described as pretty abysmal. At the same time, Steam works pretty well these days.
So I expect the Windows Store to become a fiasco of Zune proportions ;-)
Re: (Score:2)
In addition to WBR1's comments there is sometimes compatibility issues between windows store games and games bought elsewhere. Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare doesn't allow windows store players to play on steam players games. I have not idea why, but that is the case.
So you have a fraction of the online community which that game is basically all about.
Re: (Score:3)
Fuck windows store games.
Problem solved.
There was never a problem to begin with. People have been shunning the Windows Store from day one.
Separation (Score:3)
Will Microsoft then FORCE driver developers to decouple the ACTUAL drive from the shit bloat software that comes with them? Who the fuck needs a 300MiB download just for a video driver? The hardware vendors do, which over 90% of that is bloatastical bullshit, mostly just "fancy" ads for other games, or optional (but a pain in the fucking ass to remove) graphics utilities nobody asked for or even wanted in the first place.
Re: (Score:2)
aren't most drivers now specific fixes for some game or optimizations for specific games?
Full drivers or the more basic ones with out the (Score:2)
Full drivers or the more basic ones without the ati / nvidia control panels / apps?
Will the bug of nvidia updater and windows update (Score:5, Interesting)
Will the bug of nvidia updater and windows update both auto updating drivers in a loop come back?
Re: (Score:2)
nVidia doesn't automagically install anything on my system, they don't even ask me if they can update. They just put up an easily-missed notification in the system tray.
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But still you can have it where the MS auto installs an older WHQL driver on top of a newer one installed by the ATI or NVIDIA app.
Read the headline and the first thing I thought (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:1)
There's gotta be a joke about Siamese Uber drivers in there somewhere.
Re: (Score:2)
Not much of a stretch (Score:2)
Of course, it's yet one more thing for Microsoft to ram down Windows users throats.
Also, what if some applications stop mentioning certain prerequisites, due to the operating syst
I honestly don't get it. (Score:2)
That bei
Windows Update is a dog though (Score:2)
It even says so while it's searching for updates for drivers; "This may take a few minutes". So now we have to deal with that AND the game installation?
Is the idea to drive people away from their software? Looking at their crazy behavior over the past several years, I can't help but wonder if their new "business strategy" is to tank the company.
Bad idea (Score:2)
For end users, this could create a broken configuration that could occur when whatever GPU software and Windows itself fight over who's driver gets installed that a user with poor computer knowledge would just be unable to grasp, and the support nightmare that comes along with it.
For power users, this is just annoying and further damages the likelihood anyone would use the Windows Store for anything other than to chuckle at.
I think Steam has pretty much sewed up the PC Gaming delivery platform. M$ wasting
Communist Windows (Score:2)
Like Communism, this sounds great in practise but reality says differently. I wouldn't trust it worth a damn because Microsoft has a fantastic track record of hosing people's machines with updates.
Heck, a recent update killed network access for countless people in the UK because they somehow managed to botch DHCP.
Yet anothe reason not to use the MS Store (Score:2)
n/t
As if (Score:2)
Don't hold your breath. (Score:2)
>> hopefully Microsoft gives us a way to stop the auto-download
Under Windows 10 I can't even choose what system updates it downloads or if/when they get installed.
What makes you think that any company that even thinks that is OK in the first place, will give gamers any more choices?
no bad that mac os is not on more hardware and the (Score:2)
too bad that mac os is not on more hardware and they are pushing there locked down store very hard.
Linux to many distributions and not a lot of linux games. Wine is very hit or miss.
Lolno (Score:2)
> but hopefully Microsoft gives us
No, they won't. Or if they do, it will be something that will go away later. Windows users will put up with anything, so why should they bend over backwards for them in any way?