All Aboard the Nerd Boat 105
Forbes is running an article detailing a most unusual cruise. 180 Computer Science profs were brought together on a Royal Carribean ship to talk about bringing computer games to the classroom. Despite the topic, there was a lot of serious discussion. From the article: "After Microsoft's Luehmann praised the technical sophistication of three new Xbox 360 games (Mass Effect, Too Human, and Gears of War), a silver-haired professor raised his hand and commented: 'You just showed us three very sophisticated and very violent games, and I'm sure they're good for something--though I don't really know what that is--but what I want to know is, when will you make a videogame that's really useful? When will you make a videogame that's going to teach my students chemistry?'"
What ever happened to FUN? (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't forget that videogames are a business. The developers make what the market wants (at least, that's the theory).
Baltika
You are missing the point (Score:3, Interesting)
That said, the prof might be a little out of his element (I have a hard time finding a "silver-haired professor" being a
Everything I know, I learned from video games (Score:1)
Re:You are missing the point (Score:2)
Hmmm, I regularly cross weapons with an 80-year old in an FPS game. Another player who is a regular is in his mid-50s. Heck, most of the players that I know of are in their 30s and 40s. The younger folks are just too excitable and get frustrated when their fast-t
What ever happened to education? (Score:2, Insightful)
No! That's ONE accepted definition of a game. A game can educate (it's called a simulation). The military uses games to educate. Same with business (what do you think simcity and the tycoon series taught?). Even healthcare uses games.
The nice thing with most modern games is that the tools are within everyone's reach. From FUN to making a movie, everyone (with talent) can create.
Re:What ever happened to education? (Score:3, Insightful)
So you have the simulation as a common thread, for all the other educational concepts to form around, with this concept taken through from kidergarten through to university, with the students interaction and the degree of complexity varying as the stud
Fun games (Score:3, Interesting)
Educational games can be one of the best ways to engage young people. Taking a child that is otherwise reticent to learn and making it 'fun' will have him or her suddenly wanting to do the activity, not realizing that her o
Re:What ever happened to FUN? (Score:3, Informative)
Hangman (Score:2, Funny)
Periodic table breakout (Score:1)
Periodic table breakout!
Whoa, know what? McGyver! (Score:5, Interesting)
McGyver style.
The new engines would finally allow for that level of sophistication.
Create a database of 1000-2000 different chemical reactions, then give objects besides the standard "texture, lightness, weight" properties the property of chemical composition. Give player a lab to prepare stuff. Then let them loose on missions, using at first simple stuff like black powder, later play with transporting a canister of nitroglicerine across Manhattan in public transport, then do more advanced stuff, fill a building with hydrogen-oxygen mix, smuggle dissolved gold in fuel tanks, etc, all the cool stuff you can do with chemistry.
Cool!
Re:Whoa, know what? McGyver! (Score:3, Insightful)
Do what the show did (Score:4, Insightful)
So, the majority of users would be stuck, leaving a few of the more gifted and determined ones to work out the remaining details. Then you pray to Darwin that this minority takes reasonable precautions (your game should teach them that too).
Re:Do what the show did (Score:2)
With high enough critical failure rate kids would be taught ex
Re:Do what the show did (Score:2, Interesting)
Except that in real chemistry (which is what you're trying to teach, right?), most things are not so apt to go "boom." It would be more like this: Mix chemicals X and Y. Nothing happens. Try heating them. Nothing happens. Add chemical Z. Nothing happens. Start over with chemicals P and Q. Nothing happens...
This is starting to sound like a really boring game.
Re:Do what the show did (Score:3, Funny)
Either you understand the parts of chemistry and get desired results, or you don't and you get random results. Usually boring. You need to learn to achieve something.
My scenario was a
Re:Do what the show did (Score:1)
I'd estimate 70% of Macguyverisms are just total BS, with no relation to reality at all. 10% might actually work, and the remaining 20% have some tenuous relation to a real thing.
Of course I'm referring to the earlier seasons, the show really started to suck once it became about "rehabilitating inner city youth" instead of "fighting commies and cartel leaders".
Re:Whoa, know what? McGyver! (Score:1)
Re:Whoa, know what? McGyver! (Score:2)
Re:Whoa, know what? McGyver! (Score:1)
Re:Whoa, know what? McGyver! (Score:2)
Was that McGuyver or McVeigh?
Re:Whoa, know what? McGyver! (Score:2)
And then on the final level you find number 94.
That level would be far more impressive than just "transporting a canister of nitroglicerine across Manhattan in public transport"
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duh (Score:5, Insightful)
Newsflash: Your students don't want to learn chemistry. They want to beat up the hooker and get their money back, run away from the cops in a flashy sports car, and unload an entire arsenal into the local shopping mall.
That's why Grand Theft Auto 3 is the most successful franchise in history, and Mavis Beacon Teaches Chemistry hasn't even gotten to the drawing board stage yet.
Re:duh (Score:1)
And now look at me. I'm Tiger Woods.
Re:duh (Score:2)
this is much more a culture problem than a market problem. the market will exist and flourish when the consumer demands the product. right now, parents could give a shit less what their kids are doing (for the majority). it's the exact same reason the U.S. is lagging in many arenas (16th in Internet, way back in education, etc.).
face it: america is on top. problem being, there's only 1 way to go once you're up there. prepare for it or suffer in the end.
Re:duh (Score:3, Informative)
But there are some people out there trying to learn what makes the fun games fun and apply that knowledge to making the stuff we have to learn a little more fun to learn.
www.seriousgames.org [seriousgames.org]
If they do it well enough, they may even create games that are entertaining enough to play them for fun, even if they teach you something as a side effect.
Like, say, this one:
www.americasarmy.com [americasarmy.com]
or these: www.sheppardsoftware.com [sheppardsoftware.com]
Re:duh (Score:3, Informative)
So do flight simulators, BTW. At least, not the 'arcade' Crimson Skies type. After virt
So, which one is it? (Score:1)
Talk about conflicting objectives! Small wonder the game developers doesn't succeed, or even bother trying.
Is all the good educational software older? (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyone remember Rocky's Boots? I played it on the Apple II, and I'm not aware of an updated version. It was essentially a logic game, building machines from sensors, logic gates, and actuators. Think Mindstorms minus the physical Lego. It was a blast for a little kid to play, and taught some valuable concepts much earlier than I might've otherwise encountered them. But I haven't seen anything like it in years.
The question is a good one: Where have all the good educational titles gone? Perhaps now that violent games have proven they own the market, there's less appetite for trying something new and educational. Anyone?
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1)
There used to be C robots and I've heard of a few other games, but nothing even remotely successful. Why? If it was implemented well, I'd waste my life on it.
What would be cool would be a game like Civilization where instead of micromanaging, you enter a "program" and let it run for, say, 40 turns. Then you get to reevaluate
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1)
http://necrobones.com/atrobots/ [necrobones.com]
I know there is a java based robot fighting game too. I don't remember what it is though.
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1)
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:2)
The other thing I know of that's vaguely similar to what you're talking about is Angband Borgs [itctel.com].
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1)
Angband Borgs are incredibly impressive, but not really what I'm looking for. I want to compete against other players, not automate a walk-through.
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:2, Informative)
From the homepage:
"Terrarium is a multiplayer ecosystem game developed using the
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:2)
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1)
If you played Omega (from Origin Systems) back in the day you will be in for a treat.
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1)
I loved that game.
Get it from Home of the Underdogs [the-underdogs.org] if you still want it.
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1)
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1)
Re:Is all the good educational software older? (Score:1)
I already mentioned this in an earlier post, but in Japan, Nintendo's educational Brain Training series is doing extremely well. It's showing unprecedented sales trends over there. At least one of those games is set for a US release. There you have it.
Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:5, Funny)
Computer games taught me everything I know...
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:5, Funny)
Under influence of HL2 I bought a crowbar. A beautiful, long, heavy crowbar. Just the same as you find in HL2, I even made the grip red.
Later that year I got opportunity to buy massive amounts of damaged wooden palettes really cheap. I bought 30. Wood for the fireplace for autumn evenings before we start central heating! Okay, I have a crowbar, that will take a moment. Gordon Freeman needed 2 hits to break such a palette to bits, such a pile would take him maybe 20 seconds.
Bullshit. It takes good 20 minutes to break a palette to pieces using a crowbar, and you're covered with sweat afterwards.
So I took the chainsaw instead.
Okay, cutting the palette into 9 pieces that fit in the fireplace (5 cuts) takes about 3 minutes. It's tiring like hell too, but still vastly easier than breaking it using a crowbar. It took a whole afternoon to cut the pile of palettes with the chainsaw and I was dead tired after that.
I really regret I didn't have a rocket launcher or at least sachel charges. That would make it sooo much easier!
Damned games LIE!
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:1)
right tools, wrong applications (Score:2)
Only because you were using those tools on the wrong objects. The crowbar in HL is not for breaking up palettes but is for brutally bludgeoning scientists! Beating scientists dead was one of my favorite self-invented mini-games for the original HL.
As for the chainsaw, you won't find a single palette for cutting in Doom. Why? Because cutting wood is boring, but violently splattering bits of demon flesh is a most spectactular use of a chainsaw. Now, I lack demons to try this on, but given
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:1)
Bullshit. It takes good 20 minutes to break a palette to pieces using a crowbar, and you're covered with sweat afterwards.
Maybe you should workout more. It's just a suggestion.
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:2)
Missed a class? (Score:3, Funny)
So you didn't learn anything from Leisure Suit Larry? Come'on, that was chalk full of one-liners that are sure to impress the ladies!
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:2)
Before that, SimCity taught me that even with infinite money, running a successful city is still hard. There's nothing like a 20-lane highway to ease
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:3, Insightful)
Space
The USA
The World
Time
Oregon Trail, Super Solvers X, Sim X, Number Munchers, some fish game I barely remember and more. They're still around, just so happens FPSs are getting all the news right now. Among others, try Pikmin as a more recent title.
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:2)
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:1)
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:2)
Getting Computer games to work, taught me... (Score:1)
It taught me about DOS. The difference between Extended and Expanded memory (Thus getting the graphics enhancements in Wing Commander to work. Damn you EMM386!). Taught me about Interrupts and their conflicts (sound cards and video cards). Taught me networking (latency, TCP/IP, WINSOCK, routing, backbones, Modems, etc). Later in life it taught me about DirectX, OpenGL, s
Re:Computer Games Taught Me Everything I Know... (Score:2)
"I keep right-clicking on her, but no menu ever pops up!"
Theme song (Score:2)
come aboard, we're expecting you
The Love Boat
soon will be making another run
The Love Boat
promises something for everyone
Set a course for adventure,
your mind's on a new romance
Oh...wait...wrong boat...
I already play games in class... (Score:2)
And I thought that "lectures" which are nothing more than powerpoint presentations were bad.
*sitting through a powerpoint lecture as I'm typing*
Chemistry? (Score:1)
Re:Chemistry? (Score:2)
Re:Chemistry? (Score:1)
Re:Chemistry? (Score:2)
Now, if I've had chapstick on, *then* I often need soap to get that off.
Re:Chemistry? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Chemistry? (Score:1)
I'm assuming he is talking about something like this [howstuffworks.com].
Re:Chemistry? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Chemistry? (Score:1)
Re:Chemistry? (Score:2)
Yes, if you let your hands or dishes sit around with a lot of grease on them all the time, you will probably eventually find that they have more harmful bacteria on them for on
Re:Chemistry? (Score:2)
The Nerd Boat (Score:2)
Come Aboard. We're expecting you.
Games, life's sweetest reward.
Bring your PSP, in case you get bored.
The Nerd boat soon will be making another run
The Nerd boat. Make sure to stay out of the sun.
Slather on lots of sunblock, your pasty skin we'll mock like Windows XP
Brings back the memories.... (Score:1)
Re:Always something for nothing (Score:1)
ya right (Score:2)
Cause we all know THAT will make money.
Re:ya right (Score:2)
It will if you can convince the public school employees that are responsible for spending on school supplies. Never underestimate the stupidity of government employees.
Am I kidding? I don't know.
Slippery Slope (Score:1)
Re:Slippery Slope (Score:1)
I wish sex ed class was actually about sex.
Re:Slippery Slope (Score:1)
Humans can't do it either. (Score:2)
Re:Humans can't do it either. (Score:2)
Unfortuntaly I image that teaching kids how to make explosives would get shot down (even though shoting and raping people is ok).
Still games like Rome Total war are educational in my opion, history games are fairly easy to make fun, I would like to see more of those
Re:Humans can't do it either. (Score:2)
Re:Humans can't do it either. (Score:2)
Re:Humans can't do it either. (Score:2)
Killing: yes.
Prostitution: yes.
Simulated sex scenes where the parties are still clothed: After using a hack to access, yes.
Rape: no.
Re:Humans can't do it either. (Score:2)
Which is part of why humans can't make it interesting either.
I dunno about Chemistry... (Score:2)
Square-Enix's answer (Score:3, Funny)
Full-Metal Alchemist!
Re:Square-Enix's answer (Score:2)
Re:Square-Enix's answer (Score:1)
Anyone considered... (Score:2)
- the whole thing, of course, is an RPG.
- singles bar = RTS
- you're a sperm travelling up the falopian (sp?) tube = racing game
- money shot = FPS
Features:
Support for force feedback joysticks.
Special item: +5 shield of latex.
Alcohols gives charisma bonus of 27% (not to the person drinking it though).
Old School (Score:1)
Games don't teach. (Score:2)
That is a gross generalization, but in many cases it's true, and if you spend an afternoon with a child playing educational games, you'll start to see it. My nieces can blow through a Carmen Sandiego game in no time, but they couldn't tell you a single t
A lot of ignorant comments!!! (Score:1)
Remember that all games are educational in a sense. They give you a goal that you cannot accomplish immediately but through repeated attempts and failures you build the skills required to acomplish the goal. And then the
Author is teh hotness (Score:1)
Aspergia (Score:1)
Will it visit the isle Aspergia?
http://www.aspergia.com/ [aspergia.com]
Chemistry? I DON'T THINK SO. (Score:2)
People who want to use videogames to teach children chemistry are lazy. They don't want to TEACH, to actually make an effort and engage the kids in the topic. Instead, they want to pander to a certain demographic's desire to skate out on their studies, to make everything easy so they don't have to do any actual WORK.
The TRUTH is, this demographic isn't going to have the chops to learn chemistry ANYWAY. And you don't want to let them anywhere NEAR a freakin' lab. Matter of fact, you
For physics, why not The Incredible Machine (Score:2)
Human value (Score:2)
SimCity is wonderful, a great example, but its constrained by basically modelling existing systems; city dynamics. There was a middle school project we entered where we built scale model city in conjunction with a simcity city, some competition (our team never really got in gear, I dont think we even submitted), w