My most recent energy-saving bulbs last ...
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LEDs (Score:4, Informative)
Incandescent will be best for the environment. (Score:5, Insightful)
I already have a number of friends who's rooftop solar panels generate more electricity than they use. Once people reach that point, the biggest impact to the environment will be manufacturing --- either with poisons like mercury in CFL bulbs or with dirty semiconductor fabs and lead on circuit boards for LEDs.
Hard to beat a plain glass globe with a metal wire for clean recyclable environmentally friendly materials.
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I agree about the mercury in CFLs but how do you think most solar cells are made? ... They are made using "dirty semiconductor fabs." So what would you rather make with the dirty semiconductor fab, a little square mm LEDs or square meters of solar cells? Also, no one uses lead anymore.
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That makes at least two of us aware of it.
Pretty much all touch up solder/hobbiest solder has good wholesome lead in it. Silver solder for plumbing an obvious (and old) exception.
They should allow a little bit back into the oven solder. Just to cut down on tin whiskers as electronics gets old.
Never tried soldering electronics with silver solder. Anybody?
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I've user a variety of materials.
Lead isn't needed and if you can't use it right, well..that's a skill problem.
Re:Incandescent will be best for the environment. (Score:4, Insightful)
As rooftop solar gets cheaper every year, electricity won't be the biggest environmental impact of lighting.
I already have a number of friends who's rooftop solar panels generate more electricity than they use. Once people reach that point, the biggest impact to the environment will be manufacturing --- either with poisons like mercury in CFL bulbs or with dirty semiconductor fabs and lead on circuit boards for LEDs.
Hard to beat a plain glass globe with a metal wire for clean recyclable environmentally friendly materials.
Don't forget that the solar panels only over-produce for the household at times when they *don't need lights*. This impacts your environmental summarization because in order to shift that electricity from solar hours (when the sun is up) to non-solar hours (when the sun is down and you need more indoor lighting) you need to use additional expensive (economic and environmental) techniques like battery storage or borrowing electricity from a nearby coal fired plant.
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No.
You have limited understanding of how electricity is generated (it's OK, so do I). Most of the first half of your post is correct. (It's the parenthesized part where you go off the rails.)
Not all power plants are base load (the ones you describe), the daily variation is taken up by 'dispatchable power'; plants with throttles. Those vary from hydro to combustion turbines (jet engines hooked to generators). Load following can't really be seen in hourly load graphs. It's all about instantaneous control
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https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways [indiegogo.com] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlTA3rnpgzU&feature=kp [youtube.com]
where we're going we need roadways! solar freakin roadways! and before you say 'can't be done' the people doing it are doing it in the snowbelt. if you haven't seen the video watch it! i know they funded already but i was skeptical until they said they had used it in the snowbelt.
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Manufacturing costs are always less than fuel costs, both in simple cost and effects. One is a fixed one time thing, the other is ongoing.
Re:Incandescent will be best for the environment. (Score:5, Informative)
LED bulbs sold in the EU must be lead free. The shops have to accept the dead ones back for recycling. The fact that they last a lot longer limits the environmental impact. The energy saved vs. incandescent can be used for other things that would produce a lot more pollution. The mistake of looking at technologies in isolation is a pretty common one when evaluating environmental impact.
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You forget to account for the energy storage, as you won't be using much lighting while the sun shines. And the extra air con load, depending on your local climate.
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The fact you use needless alarm words means I can't take anything in your post seriously.
"Poison", "Dirty"
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Pumped storage is fully utilized, most of the year. Usually regulations slowing them down.
They're building prototypes with motorized freight cars and gravel.
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I'm interested in solar power as a means to offset the cooling costs during 95+ degree F days with 80+% humidity. That is the bulk of my energy usage. Solar seems like a natural fit since my power usage is much lower on rainy days and night time.
You would probably get a better bang for the buck with a ground source heat pump.
It's alot more efficient to pump in the cool air already underground to cool your home than it is to do the multiple
energy conversions from solar->electricity->compressor.
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Both times I lived in areas with high temps and humidities, no one even had a basement. When you're near the coast, and near sea level (typical of high humidity areas), underground anything is right out.
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Thanks for the suggestion, but I already have a high efficiency heat pump and according to the Geothermal Savings Calculator [climatemaster.com] my annual cooling savings is only $471/yr (heating is only $255/yr).
At least by supplementing my electrical source with solar energy, I can use any possible excess on lighting or appliances.
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I started converting my bulbs to LEDs back in 2008, so my oldest bulbs are six years old, and still running.
However, the question was about my most RECENT bulbs. I got two last month. Neither one has failed in the three weeks I've had them, so I have to vote "Never had one fail."
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I guess I'm not the only one who was a bit confused about that.
I just recently had one of my first LED bulbs fail (the most expensive one at that). It was an 8W dimmable bulb and it still flickers so I suspect the controller is broken and not the LED itself.
Got 2 new 12W bulbs this week for only €10 a pop, sent from China. And I love them. Just need to wait and see now how long they'll last.
Latest LEDs are Too New To Fail Yet (Score:2)
Duh, that should be obvious. The only reason they would have failed is if they were DOA or smoked when I plugged them in or something else was defective or the lamp fell over; bulbs that are supposed to last tens or hundreds of thousands of hours that I put in this year haven't had time to fail.
CFLs are different - they've been out a few years now, and I've had plenty of them fail, and worried about whether dead ones break before I get them out of the house and over to the recyclers.
My most recent not-real
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Efficiency is the amount of light per watt. not just the watts
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I picked up some 3-packs of 40 watt equivalent chandelier bulbs at Costco that work quite well. They seem brighter than the original incandescents though I did have one fail within a day which Costco let me exchange without question. They also dim just like the bulbs they replaced. They're only 4.8 watts instead of 40 watts. I put in 2 months or less even though other than the single failure I have not had any other LED bulb fail on me and I'm up to around 20 bulbs so far. I don't think I'll buy another inc
Dimmable LEDs (Score:3)
Want dimmable ones so they'll be pricy initially.
Dimmable LED bulbs used to be more expensive. These days pretty much all the LED bulbs you see around are dimmable, even the low cost ones.
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I have a few dimmable Cree bulbs and they flicker. Not impressed. Supposedly Phillips make better dimmable bulbs.
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I have a few dimmable Cree bulbs and they flicker. Not impressed. Supposedly Phillips make better dimmable bulbs.
I just tested the two and had the exact opposite experience (with a pretty nice leviton digital dimmer, too). The 9.5w/60w equiv Cree bulbs worked fantastic, no flicker at any light level. The Philips bulbs (10.5w/60w equiv dimmable, according to the package) flickered like crazy and wouldnt even turn off all the way, they just slowed to a 1Hz flicker.
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Interesting data point.
Only one of my fixtures has a dimmer, the light over the dining room table. For reference, the fixture has five Philips bulbs in it, and they dim fine, no noticible flicker.
Obviously, results vary.
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Without dimmers, I've been hard pressed to see the difference between brands.
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I have a Phillips dim-able LED, works great. No flicker.
this one:
http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p... [philips.com]
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Watt are you talking about.
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IC watt you did there.
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Hee hee!
Oh, wait...
Re: Dimmable LEDs (Score:2)
They're the most current available...
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Can they use a standard dimmer knob, or do you have to replace it with something else?
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You often have to have to get newer dimmers for LEDs. Reading the fine print you find that comes with most bulbs.
Here is what Cree says (pdf). [cree.com]:
'Cree® LED bulbs are designed to be dimmed with standard incandescent type dimmers. They are also compatible with most Magnetic Low Voltage (MLV) and Electronic Low Voltage (ELV) dimmers. This list was generated from lab tes
Kids don't mix well with CFLs (Score:2)
Kids mix fine with LED's (Score:3)
I put an LED lamp in my drop light. Been under cars, in the crawlspace, knocked around pretty good. The "bulb" has taken much more abuse than any incandescent lamp ever could, and is going strong. The light pattern is not as good as an incandescent or fluorescent since there is a spot effect off the top of the bulb.
I agree, no CFL's in drop lights or other rugged duty applications. They contain mercury like any other fluorescent light. WHEN they break I don't need that particular cleanup headache.
I was
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I also went to CFLs because of the energy savings. However, I'd get a few years life out of them.
However, I switched to LED bulbs virtually everywhere. Their energy savings is not that much better than CFLs... but there is far less of a mess when a LED bulb hits the floor than an unprotected CFL. So far, I've not had any of my LED bulbs burn out, even with daily use, some on dimmer switches.
I know there is a cost premium, but between the longer life (barring an overvoltage, which will fry LEDs quickly) a
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Three years and counting (Score:2)
I installed my first CFLs in 2011. They're still going strong.
The choice I made at the time was between startup behaviour and colour temperature. They either come on immediately but have a blue cast, or take a minute to warm up but have a warmer colour. I have the former in my kitchen, the latter in my living room and bedroom.
LEDs are interesting but their "white" is such a weird colour I'll pass on them for now.
...laura
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Make sure you're not confusing the "white" you see with, for example, LED flashlights, with the "white" that you would get if you bought good LED lightbulbs. The Philips ones are especially good, in my experience. You can get them in usually at least 3 different colors; warm white, cool white, and daylight. Warm white, usually around 2700K-3300K color temperature, is what most people have in their homes; it's the same as tungsten, and is considered "relaxing". Cool white is more bluish; something like 5000K
Mixture of Bulbs (Score:2)
So far none of the Energy Efficient ones have failed. I have a mixture of incandescent and CFLs and am just starting to replace with LEDs for some places in the house.
Kitchen - LED spots in the ceiling. Master Bedroom sconces most recently and ceiling fixtures.
Rooms - CFL for floor lamps that stay on for hours.
Garage, bathroom, outside lights - Incandescent for places that are turned on and off due to quick visits.
Any place where lights are just turned on and off briefly get incandescent bulbs. At least for
This one lasted a year... (Score:2)
...until it gave up all its smoke. Good thing I was home before it burned the house down.
I won't run any more CFLs. LED or incandescent only for me, thanks.
http://www.anony.ws/image/DLPq
Confusing question (Score:2)
I'm sure there's been a few cheapo CFLs over the years that have died, but they're not most recent either and I have no idea how long they lasted.
Given that is asks for my most recent, I'd have to say it's never failed, but the option "Never had one fail" refers to any bulb. Guess 3+ it is
Missing option: Don't know. (Score:2)
I plainly don't know the answer to it yet.
Very first CFL still working (Score:2)
Hard To Say (Score:2)
I have a mix of CFL, halogen, and old-fashioned filament bulbs. The halogen is the shortest-lived, by far. The CFL has been doing fine for years. Interestingly, the filaments bulbs, by and large, are also doing fine after many years. The average age is well over 3 years (the longest interval in the poll) even for bulbs that get used every day.
Still going.. (Score:3)
Most recent failure was 2009 (Score:2)
Once high-intensity blueish bulb out of probably 4 dozen bought (including LEDs). I still have a slow-start CFL from Ikea that I bought in 2005 that's still running and hasn't been broken.
More concerning is the CFL that was broken - no more stand-lamps with kids now, but that was not fun - essentially had to completely and thoroughly clean the room.
Never had one burn out (Score:2)
I've never had a CFL fail. I've been replacing incandescents with CFLs whenever a bulb burns out. My oldest CFL is 7 years old and my newest is a little under 1 year old.
Lifetime has been great (Score:2)
I bought about ten CFLs in 2007, two of them failed.
Two years ago I started buying LEDs. I have half a dozen of these, none of which have failed.
10-15 years. They rarely fail. (Score:2)
The old CFLs took a few seconds to start up, which baffled some of my friends. The modern CFLs are generally instant-on, although they'll get a bit brighter as they warm up.
I hardly ever lose a bulb any more. One of them failed last year, which was memorable, because it just doesn't happen. I
Most recent bulbs still in package (Score:2)
I've had a few of my older CFLs fail though but generally only after quite a few years. Duty cycle makes a huge difference. I just replaced two incandescent bulbs that were supplied by our builder almost twenty years ago. We just don't use those particular lights very often. I only wish I'd bought more cheap, incandescent bulbs before they were outlawed since they are fine for lights that are rarely used.
Cheers,
Dave
My experiences with CFL and LED light bulbs (Score:2)
The last energy-saving light bulb that I've bought turned 1 year on July 1. It's a Philips 1055 lumens/13 watt LED that's roughly equivalent to a 75 watt incandescent. I had prevously been using a 800 lumens/15 watt CFL, but I thought it was too dim, and swapped it to our hallway. We have had mixed experiences with CFLs in our house. We found that in our dining room they would only last a few months, I think that they didn't like being turned on and off all the time and they were right in front of a hot fir
bad power (Score:2)
bad power grid and the electronic CFL are a bad mix.
Bulbs? (Score:2)
Is this a record? (Score:2)
The bulb in my front porch - a Philips SL18 - dates from 1986. It's a little slow to start now, but it still works fine.
3 years? That's just the burn-in time. (Score:2)
Haven't used one yet. . . (Score:2)
Since I have a backlog of older bulbs, I haven't had the need to pull out an energy saving one. Thus I selected the only option that made sense, Never had One.
"Never failed".... (Score:2)
but I only installed it less than two months ago, so not a particularly insightful answer.
It's our first LED bulb, so I'm hopeful it'll fare better than some of the CFLs I've used.
Going since '06 (Score:2)
I have 4 Ikea CFL's from 2006 still going strong (out of a 6 pack, the other two went outside on the front and back door and died a horrible immediate death in a motion light). I also have a LED bulb from 2010 in constant use working well. I have a handful more sitting in a package that I can't use because the ceiling fan is on a dimmer. I don't know if I'll ever get to them.
LEDs (Score:2)
I bought two cases of LEDs for $2.99 each at Costco (one 60W equiv, one 75W) . Yep, $2.99. I replaced every bulb, inside and outside my house and it's really nice. The color is the same all over the house, and knowing I won't have to change one till I'm well past 60 is VERY Cool.
"Most recent"? Too new to know. (Score:2)
My most recent have been the new low-cost LEDs. I only bought my first batch about six months ago. I have been replacing CFLs as they fail, so only have four LED bulbs in service at the moment - ranging from about a week to 6 months in service.
The oldest in-service has been on continuously for the full 6 months. (It's the "basement night-light" on a ceiling mount that doesn't have an off switch. It's a 6-watt LED / "40 Watt equivalent".)
My earliest batches of compact fluorescent bulbs were terrible. Th
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I think the breakeven point is better for LEDs than CFLs (cost of bulbs over time vs. energy savings), since CFLs seem to not last very long and LEDs keep getting cheaper. I want them to get a LITTLE bit cheaper still, before I start investing in large numbers of them, though.
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It's not costing us much directly because the bulbs are almost free after local electric company rebates at Costco (and those 0 lumen bulb
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I would really get a monitoring device for your power and watch it over a couple of months.
The rest of you most is mumbo/jumbo
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regarding the "equivalent to 100W" practice; what I find most annoying is when I buy one where "equivalent to 100W" really IS equivalent to 100W. for example, I bought a 20W fluorescent bulb for my hallway and now, every time I turn it on, I can see my x-ray skeleton being burned into the wall next to me.
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Better make sure your energy company isn't called Dr.Wily Elecman co.
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Must be bad power or something. I have CFLs that have lasted so long that I took them with me when I moved.
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Dude, put a good strong fart fan into your bathroom.
If you've got regular condensation going on, CFLs failing is the least of your problems.
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It sounds a lot like the power quality in your house is extremely bad. Have you had other devices fail prematurely?
Well, if bad power is an ongoing problem, then obviously it would be extremely irresponsible of the bulb makers to make them so dependent on clean power and it would be irresponsible of the government to outlaw bulbs that are more tolerant of lower quality power.
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The government didn't outlaw them based on their tolerance to power, they outlawed lower effieciency bulbs. Governing is often dealing with conflicting interests. LIfe is complicated. Stop pretending it isn't.
Also, LED bulbs are more tolerant. Use those if you have a terrible power supply.
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Where do you draw the line? Some level of badness has to be classified as a fault, some limit on what bulbs must be capable of surviving must be set for the standards. You can't expect stuff to be indestructible (except Model M keyboards, obviously).
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Where do you draw the line? Some level of badness has to be classified as a fault, some limit on what bulbs must be capable of surviving must be set for the standards. You can't expect stuff to be indestructible (except Model M keyboards, obviously).
I don't want them to be indestructible, but since they cost 10 times as much, it is reasonable to expect that they will last longer, not less long, and that they will be more resilient, not less resilient, and they will produce more light, not less light.
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well get you power up to government standards.
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So, given the experience that I and a significant number of CFL purchasers have had, is it any wonder that we scratch our heads at your bad luck and wonder about your power quality.
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Re: 2 months, but they all quit! (Score:4, Informative)
Agreed.
I started buying CFLs 12 years ago. I have had four fail in that time, out of 40, spread over two different physical houses. 90% lasting over a decade? I'll take those numbers over replacing every single one every 3-6 months!
That said... "It is irrational to think that a light bulb should be so horribly unreliable" that they last two months when everyone else has them lasting for several years. Someone in this discussion has stated an irrational conclusion. Me, I still have 36 out of 40 CFLs working more than a decade later, so I don't think I have the logic problem...
BTW, all those "sensitive" electronics you describe? Each and every one of them have beefy power supplies designed to deal with brief poor power conditions, whether they simply turn off or buffer a few seconds of suitable power to make it through momentary rough patches. A 3-for-$10 CFL has no giant filter caps hidden in some nearby pocket universe to help it magically weather a brownout that would cook all those devices you describe if they didn't possess exactly such safeguards.
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Well maybe your richy rich multi millionaire bulbs last a long ass time, but the normal $2-5 per bulbs are garbage. I have to replace at least one every 6 months out of aprox 15 bulbs installed in my apt. My anecdote cancels out your anecdote!!! so there
I know many people as well who have the same problems. My building manager for instance who manages a 200 suite property. The building engineers at work who swap them out all the time. The balast generally goes and
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Great, you list the types of places they almost always have bad power.
Unless you 200 suite apartment has a high quality power system., you neighbors blender use could impact you power quality.
I pay less the 5 dollar for all my CFLs, and 5.26 for dim-able Phillips 60 watt bulb. I bought it last weekend.
I bought it to replace a CFL in my sons room that had been there for 4 years, and it's on for over 10 hours a day.
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Ever heard of "moving"? I don't own two houses, I've lived two different places in the past decade.
but the normal $2-5 per bulbs are garbage. I have to replace at least one every 6 months out of aprox 15 bulbs installed in my apt.
[...]I like the energy savings, and lower heat, but old ass bulbs are far more reliable.
FIrst, I buy the Home Depot discount bulk packs, in the 4 bulbs for $10 range. So yeah, comparing apples to ap
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No, just trying to make sense of your experneice versus our experience. I replaced all of the incadecents with the cheapest CFL's back in 2006. All still work. Just moved and did the same. None have ever gone out on me, in this country. When I was living in a third world country, yeah, the power sucked and it blew cfls all the time.
Its a reasonable inference, rather than blaming a vast conspiritoral scam.
Re: 2 months, but they all quit! (Score:4, Informative)
It's not irrational to suspect power. BTW: many thing will work fine with dirty power, so keep that in mind.
"When the power is good enough for more than a dozen computers, two laptops, a 60" TV, a LCD projector, an oscope, about $20k worth of stereo equipment, nearly $10k worth of HAM radio equipment, and tons of other electronic equipment, then it must be power that is the problem. If there was a problem, something else would have quit."
You are either a liar or the most ignorant ham operator I have every met when it come to electricity.
"When the power is good enough for more than a dozen computers,"
with a power supply that helps clean the power during conversion from AC to DC.
" an oscope"
really, you have an Oscope, but don't understand how the power coming into it works?
I was going to take the rest part, but instead I'm just going to say, Lights are plug into the AC. There is no converter or batter. Incandescent bulbs can take freq drift, center line drift, bot reduction, and numerous other problems from bad wiring. In fact of you don't have any filters between those device and the wall, THEY could be the cause of dirty power.
FUCK! I jst saw you are AC. I"m not going to cancel because someone might actual need to know this and I've written it already.
You lying prick.
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Depends where you are, but I got my LEDs for $10, and they use 6W. CFLs are $1.35 for a 13W ot the same brightness. Power for me is $0.25/kWh, the LED pays for itself after about 5,000 hours over the CFLs, and the LED is rated for 50,000 hours (no idea how accurate that is, but they should last longer than the CFL) and the CFL is 8,000 hours, it's worth it right now, by a lot.
However I got to say, I actually bought the LEDs because CFLs were a non-option for me, I was living with someone sensitive to UV, an
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Generally speaking, anything with lots of parts has more points of failures. Since CFLs all have ballasts, my experience has been that spikes does take a toll, by virtue of them dying after the storm.an incandescent is just a big resister. Yes, it can break but it is fairly tolerant by virtue of being tungsten and having no other parts. This is why I spend the money for the better CFLs. I've been using CFLs for well over a decade now. Been using them since the 90s, so not an expert, but I've owned a lo
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Voltage drop. Get, make or borrow an IR scanner. (They are used to 'look through cloths', IIRC you can hack one out of a cheap camera.) The lose/dirty connection will show up as a warm-spot on a wall plate/fuse box. Make sure the light is on, install an incandescent for the troubleshoot. Do it when it's cool/cold and the heat is off.
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