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Games Entertainment

Monolith Adds Games For Linux 97

Posted by Hemos from the more-games-rolling-out dept.
Dave writes "Monolith Productions and Hyperion Software announced today that they have extended an existing licensing agreement to include a port of Monolith's critically acclaimed Shogo: Mobile Armor Division and LithTech 1.0 and 2.0 to the Linux operating system. The Linux port is expected to be available in the second quarter of 2000. This is a great addition for Linux gaming, and will hopefully help to influence other software companies to develop more and more games for the Linux OS. "
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Monolith Adds Games For Linux

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  • ..have a good Armored Core lookalike for a PC platform.
    It still amazes me that American companies who are interested in mecha games haven't taken the AC lessons to heart--insanely customizable units(switching body parts gives a very different playing style, not to mention designable logos/paint scheme), cleverly designed levels/arenas, and plot determined by the player's choice of missions. Weapons are very thought out as well.
    Lately, most American mecha games haven't made me feel a thing.
    MW3: admittedly, quite possibly the best Battletech game on the market. But the gameplay and feel hasn't changed for the past five years. Driving a walking tank with barely any agility and a poorly-designed cooling system doesn't appeal to me anymore. Though the graphics are stunning.

    Heavy Gear 2: I'll plead guilty here; I haven't played anything beyond the demo, which did impress me in the drastic improvements from the first version. Activision's lame install program annoyed the hell out of me, though.

    Slave Zero: at its roots, an Evangelion wannabe(and especially if you saw some of the early devel pictures). Enemies are nicely designed, but intelligence-wise fairly simple, except for the bosses. The shoulder missile unit was a breath of fresh air, but the handheld weapons have been done over and over again. Why can't Slave use those nifty back thrusters to scoot forward? Why don't the levels give me an impression of a real city? Don't even get me started on the Dreamcast version.

    Shogo: if multiplayer works for you, you get very fast and furious dogfights. What's nice is that the duality of man/mecha modes is quite clear, and it forces you to take very different play styles. But mecha mode can still be classed as bringing nothing new; just a scaled up version.

    Parting note; I've had a suspicion for a long time that Shogo and Blood 2 were seen by the Monolith higher-ups(not the programmers) as more of prototypes/stepping stones on the way to LithTech 2. Shogo got a good release(marred by some sloppy network design, which mutated into massive cheating), but then they wiffed on Blood2, and then decided "We'll just pretend they don't exist and start selling gamers on our new Wowie Zowie Engine". Sanity is still on my list of games to check out, and the new engine shots do look impressive. Hopefully 'Lith will do a bit more listening and improve their attention span.

  • Blood does *not* use the Lithtech engine. Blood used the Build engine (think Duke 3D). Blood 2, the massive bomb that it was, used the Lithtech engine.

    Your friendly neighbourhood pedant.


  • 1. There is a plot. A REAL plot. An INTRIGUING plot.

    You mean a boring anime plot. I've seen enough anime not to be even remotely interested that a love triangle springs up in a world with giant mechanical armour and drunken missles while a young mecha pilot tries to save the world from old friends who have turned evil. It may sound contrived that I say that happens alot in anime, but it does. And it's not really that exciting...

    2. The graphics rival Q3 and UT even though it is a year or two old.

    Yeah, I'll give you that one. The level design sucked ass though.

    3. The game engine is incredible!

    Not really... I had trouble (lots of trouble) with D3D lockups on my TNT1, and it really *didn't* like ps2rate at all. Oh, the best part - I got (another) copy of Shogo when I bought my Logitech gaming mouse (think the classic wedge-shaped 3btn Logitech mouse, and it's dark grey to boot), and the game won't even recognize the mouse. Ironic, eh? :-)

    4. The gameplay is incredible!

    If you say so. The transformation was unique, but ultamately just a novelty. The single player AI containted the usual lobotomy drones that only move if you see them. Point, shoot, yay, repeat. The physics were very slippery, if you like that sort of thing.

    5. The weapons/items/etc are actually innovative and fun!

    Yes, I liked the drunken missles (I want to see some in UT - I mean, it wouldn't be hard at all to mutate the 8-ba... rocket launcher to shoot multiple drunken missles). Other than that, it was your usual FPS fare.

    Really - it wasn't *that* great a game. It was cool, it was better than 60% of the other stuff out there on shelves, but it's not an A-title, IMHO.
  • Shogo was decent. It wasn't exceptional, it won't change your life, and multiplayer was a bit boring, but it worked.

    However, Monolith has a habit of not standing behind thier product at all. I wouldn't expect a quality product from them at all, as they don't have a good recent history of producing them (see Blood 2).


  • Here's the link: http://sb.drtwister.com/linux/

    Shadowbane (http://www.shadowbane.com) is a massively-multiplayer environment now in development by Wolfpack Studios, a startup game shop in Austin. As the executive producer, Todd "Warden" Coleman, put it:

    "Well, we've actually talked about Linux support in the past (and since we use Open GL, and have a single code base for both PC (Windows) and Mac, it wouldn't be *that* hard to do) -- but, to be honest, the market cry for it just hasn't been that great. If we get enough response from Linux users, I'm sure that we'll pay attention."

    The petition has received over 200 entries since it went up two days ago.

    Unfortunately, this was rejected as a story twice already.

    J.

  • There was a zoom key?
    --
  • I've used many Operating Systems in my time, from OS/32 (Perkin Elmer/CCUR) to CP/M to MacOS to BeOS, etc. I don't have any problems with the BeOS. Actually, I love it. It was a breeze to configure and I never said otherwise. The problem I have is truly a BUG; a bug that is quite similar to a bug on Be's support website, yet different enough to be intrinsic to MY setup alone. The problem is with the way the bootloader is attempting to read from the boot sector of my IDE hard-drive, maybe it the Geometry that's fscked, I dont know. I've tried everything.

    I quite dislike Gnome and in fact, don't remember even mentioning it. Linux *IS* difficult to configure, but at least I can get at the source of the problem. With a bug in the proprietary bootloader's code, I am stuck with either A) Waiting for them to fix it, or B) Boot from a (questionably reliable) floppy disk forever.

    My problem with Be's (constant) repositioning is that the current userbase has to suffer from their long lead-times and slow response. It looks as if they're doomed to never find their niche from where I stand, although you may disagree.

    Please don't take any of this the wrong way. We're all in this together, and I was most certainly *NOT* trying to pit Linux against BeOS. They both have their place; in the world, and on my machine.
  • I'm really getting sick of Slashdot's Linux only attitude. Several months ago I submited and article about a press release made by Monolith and Be. It stated that they were going to be working together to make Shogo Mobile Armor Division available for BeOS. But, it wasn't slashdot worthy because the press release didn't have the word linux in it...

    So, all you BeOS users out there, this game will be available for BeOS too!
  • I've never played Mech 3 but if its anything like one and 2 it is not similar to Shogo. Shogo is an anime style FPS and it allows you to be (in half the levels) and 3 story tall robot that fights other 3 story tall robots (and some tiny people that you can step on). So you are either a normal person or a 3 story tall mech (and it is still just a FPS)

  • Age of Empires is not designed by MS but Ensemble.
    There will not port Age of Kings to Linux ( and not it is not MS that's preventing them but according to Sandyman, he won't waste developers time porting stuff to other OS when there are new games to be made) however, they are willing to license the game ...
  • >>1. There is a plot. A REAL plot. An INTRIGUING plot.

    >You mean a boring anime plot. I've seen enough anime not to be even remotely interested that a love triangle springs up in a world with giant mechanical armour and drunken missles while a young mecha pilot tries to save the world from old friends who have turned evil. It may sound contrived that I say that happens alot in anime, but it does. And it's not really that exciting...

    I've got to agree. It had a plot, but it was pretty much off the stock anime plot shelf. Mind you, this is still more then we're getting out of some FPSs these days.

    "Ok, you're this badass and uh... you have to fight in an arena..."

    "Ok, you're this super tough mofo and uh... you entered a tournament..."

    >>2. The graphics rival Q3 and UT even though it is a year or two old.

    >Yeah, I'll give you that one. The level design sucked ass though.

    The art was very good. The levels were small, though. They all felt cramped. After working with Dedit, the Lithtech map editor, I know why the levels were so small. Man that thing sucks.

    >>3. The game engine is incredible!

    >Not really... I had trouble (lots of trouble) with D3D lockups on my TNT1, and it really *didn't* like ps2rate at all. Oh, the best part - I got (another) copy of Shogo when I bought my Logitech gaming mouse (think the classic wedge-shaped 3btn Logitech mouse, and it's dark grey to boot), and the game won't even recognize the mouse. Ironic, eh? :-)

    D'oh! What was Logitech thinking?! Heh.

    Anyhow, I had NO problems on my Voodoo2 card. The LithTech 1.0 engine was neat, but it's not as powerful as the modified Q2 or Unreal engines. LithTech 2.0, however, appears to be truly promising.

    >>4. The gameplay is incredible!

    >If you say so. The transformation was unique, but ultamately just a novelty. The single player AI containted the usual lobotomy drones that only move if you see them. Point, shoot, yay, repeat. The physics were very slippery, if you like that sort of thing.

    The AI was pisspoor. The feel of the game was good, but I didn't get much of a difference in feel between being on foot and being in the mecha. (Slave Zero is the best I've seen so far for reproducing that Anime-Mecha feel.)

    >>5. The weapons/items/etc are actually innovative and fun!

    >Yes, I liked the drunken missles (I want to see some in UT - I mean, it wouldn't be hard at all to mutate the 8-ba... rocket launcher to shoot multiple drunken missles). Other than that, it was your usual FPS fare.

    I did enjoy the weapon selection. The drunken missiles... The Bullgut! That think rocked. That was the coolest part of the game, heh. Took my back to the days of watching Macross. ;)

    >Really - it wasn't *that* great a game. It was cool, it was better than 60% of the other stuff out there on shelves, but it's not an A-title, IMHO.

    I'd rate it a 7 out of 10.

    Peronsally, I'm happier to hear about LithTech 2.0 than 1.0 or Shogo.


    \//
  • But I don't know if I could blame this on the engine - it may have been the company that made this. I went to the website and it looks like the engine product liscense is like $250,000. (correct me if im wrong). I don't know how many people will pay that much for an engine...

    I'm pretty sure that's fairly 'affordable' for a 3D engine. I think The Q2 and Unreal engines cost more.

    \//
  • Yes indeed we jump at every time a company ports to Linux. That's what we should be doing.

    You might want to learn a few lessons from Mac game history. There was a time when certain game makers would port any old crap, do a lousy job of it, and when the program tanked, blame the Mac market for not buying games. Sierra, in particular, was infamous for this. The original Civilization broke during a system update and Microprose refused to fix it, saying it was Apple's fault. The problem was eventually fixed for some machines by a freeware patch.

    There will be companies doing this trying to get on the Linux bandwagon, probably soon. Don't buy a game just because it is released for your system. If companies can get away with crap, that's what you'll get.

    P.S. Both Sierra and Microprose did improve over time and have since put out good Mac products.

  • I played a demo of Shogo and thought it was pretty cool, despite my ancient hardware at the time...hopefully I'll have a new machine built by the time it's released.

    On a related note, any news on Sierra's views re: Linux ports? I'd love it if they paid for/assisted/suggested Linux ports of some of the games that they publish...or would/do they leave that up to the companies they publish for?
  • The Lith visual engine truly looks impressive to me, but then I'm only play games, and I'm not likely to spot if anything is missing.

    Except for one thing. There is no mention of an environmental sound model (EAX or simmilar). Their features list does mention DirectX compatibility, and I think the later versions of DirectX include environmental sound, so it may be included.

    But somehow, I have a feeling that it is not. And Linux AFAIK doesn't have an environmental sound API. I think it would be great if the LithTech people hooked up with the opensource SB Live driver developers [creative.com] and created an API that would work for game developers and be open source...

  • I really think this is all thanks to id software. John Carmack and his team worked hard to bring a Linux port of Quake 3 to us. Because Quake is the standard for all FPS and Geek Games, Linux is suddenly enjoying consideration as a platform that can play games.

    Actually, id's involvement with Linux began with DOOM, thanks to ddt (aka Dave Taylor). ddt did it because "Linux [gave him] a woody". Now, it's pretty standard for an id title to be released for Linux (although as a separate package to gauge the market was a great move by JC and the rest of the gang at id). John Carmack definitely deserves credit for bringing Linux support to the next level.

    ddt went on to found Crack.com, released abuse, and is now working for Transmeta...

  • It's still s decent game but if you're looking for an fps there's this little game called Quake 3 you might want to look into....

    *droooool*

    Been there, done that. :-)

    Sometimes I just want a little Mech3 action though, ya know?

    A few ER-PPCs and a LRM-20 can make such a nice stress-reliever in multiplayer. :-)

    Although the BFG10K does have it's appeal...
  • I'm just upset since Microsoft bought Mech3 right before it came out. I guess we'll NEVER see a M3 port. By far my favorite Giant Robot Crushing Things game.

    I haven't played this one yet. Buy or no Buy? How does it compare to M3?
  • Um, hi, linux has Unreal Tournament and Quake 3. The two biggest FPS's of all time. It's games like these that cause other publishers to take note.

  • Other ways in which games lead technology is hardware. 3d video cards, sound cards and CD roms are all poplular mainly because games ran better or required them.

    I don't really know how this applies to Linux but if someone makes a killer-game for Linux only then that would be worth using the OS. I suppose.

  • You can be sure that companies are going to be more interested in porting and writing games on Linux now. Over the next two years more and more Linux devices, many of them portable, will appear, and a large market for these devices will be for games, and especially network games!

    You could be playing you game around the house, in the garden etc, but loading the game data from inside the house, across a bluetooth link or wireless ethernet link - basically a remote disk drive. No more having to leave the computer behind when you are forced to go into the garden/shopping/etc! :-)

    Developers need to get aquainted with programming games for Linux as soon as possible. XFree86 4 will makes things even better for them


    ~~

  • You missed my point entirely. I know DRI does that, but what does it work for? Voodoo 3. I even pointed it out when he borrows his friend's voodoo 3! My point was thats about the ONLY thing it supports. Its an antiquated card no less. What about TNT? What about GeForce, what about all the other nice card out there, what about GeForce! I thought Linux was about choice. Yes, Linux supports SMP, but so does NT and NT has a better threading model at that, which should help out SMP performance even more. Second, I think Aureal is porting A3D to Linux. SBLive is an Aureal competitor. (Don't get your hopes up on getting SBLive 3D support in Linux. EAX is just an extension of DirectSound 3D. They would have to add an entirely new model to it to make it work.) But have they done it yet? My point was that with all the hype over Linux, some guy will go out and buy stock Redhat 6.1 with X 3.3.5, start the game, and have it not work! At a minimum X4 will take another 3 months to get here, and if A3D is just now being ported, it could take until July. So were talking summer 2K for a good Linux gaming experience, yet the hype is here NOW. So in that six months much of the hype will dissipate as people say, "oh. Linux. I tried that, it sucked!" And once the hype is gone, its gone for good.
    Suggestion: Code now, hype later.
  • Interesting. I have ONE encountered problems with the 4.5 bootloader or heard of such things for that matter, except for the adaptec incedent where the SCSI card's driver were in R4.5.2 but you needed R4.5 to install the patch, but needed R4.5.2 to boot the system. That was fixed with a floppy image. Its interesting that you have to "stab at the dark" to do anything under BeOS. If you haven't figured out, anything that isn't configured automatically is covered in the manual. There is no setting on the system that is not covered in one of the prefs applets. If it isn't there you can't configure it. What are you doing anyway? Going into the sytem folder under /. Those are only for the BeOS system to use. I don't think there is anything in there that the end user has to configure. Other wise I can't possibly see anything taking more than a few minutes to configure under BeOS. It might not work, but you will know the minute the prefs. applet gives you an error. And I doubt anything take minutes under "linux the OS that makes me go into /etc to change my hostname even though GNOME has a preference for it because the GNOME developers were not bright enough to realize that hosts is kept in two files." Or that I have to go into xf86config just to change my resolution. If something doesn't work automatically under BeOS, it won't work period. (With the sole exeption of WON) Second, whats wrong with a company repositioning its product? Happens all the time, especially with such a small company. Plus, its not so much a repositioning as the press releases would have you believe. I think Be realizes that it can get its foot in the door by capturing the webpad market and is uplaying that to get some hype.
  • Hmmmm.... tough call.... $49.99+ vs $37... :^)

    Thanks for the info!

    Oh, BTW, what's this "chipping" thing? Is that like ROMming a game? ;^)
  • I saw this first on the linuxgames.com [linuxgames.com] website: pre-order s [ebworld.com] for a Loki [lokigames.com] port of Heavy Gear 2. Finally, some killer action games! (I like strategy games, and I know they were the easiest to port, but I was waiting for some action. [sorry, I just don't dig the quake-style FPS games, although I know those are 'action' too...])
  • What makes this extra cool is that according to Daily Radar [dailyradar.com] a new KISS: Psycho Circus FPS is being developed using the LithTek engine. They just recently ran a preview [dailyradar.com]. KISS on Linux? Oh yeah!
  • Shogo is fun! And it has a plot! And a kick-ass soundtrack, that changes tempo and things dependent on where you are in the game. Shogo is a great game, and it will be wonderful to see it ported over to Linux. Happy day.
  • Excellent directional sound, ESPECIALLY with the latest Livewire drivers. Shogo Rox!
  • I was adicted to Shogo for some time after it's release (even stole one of the big 3 foot display boxes from CompUSA) and was twice ranked #3 overall (theclq.com). It was very fast and giant robots fighting with HUGE weapons of MASS destruction (BFG and rocketlauncer don't even come CLOSE) plus you had kick ass on-foot action equal to any Quake clone. It's one flaw was poor modem code for certain low speed/high latency connections. It featured EAX directional sound - and cranking it up had you really thinking you were inside that huge robot shooting up the cityscapes. If Shogo wasn't already on Windows, I probably would say it's the only application that could get me to try Linux again.
  • I really think this is all thanks to id software. John Carmack and his team worked hard to bring a Linux port of Quake 3 to us. Because Quake is the standard for all FPS and Geek Games, Linux is suddenly enjoying consideration as a platform that can play games.

    And naturally, when a man who is considered by many to be the greatest game programmer ever ports his game to Linux, lots of people will follow suit. I doubt we would have seen UT for Linux had id not been working on Q3 for Linux, nor would we be seeing these games now.

    Now if only we could get Half-Life and StarCraft, I'd be quite happy.

    "You ever have that feeling where you're not sure if you're dreaming or awake?"

  • Linux needs it's version of "Doom". A killer game that blows the competition away and makes people sit up and take notice.

    I think for something like this to work the game would have to be SPECIFICALLY for Linux. Otherwise, most people will stay with the OS they have. If I was a Windows user and the next "big thing" was available for both Linux and Windows, I wouldn't likely switch to a new OS, I'd just buy the Windows version. Don't get me wrong, more games for Linux is great, but as long as they're all ports of Windows games, not many people are going to switch over ( at least not for the games ).

  • Check out LinuxForKids.com [linuxforkids.com]. It lists educational and games software for children for Linux.

  • Do we really want some of these windows game programmers, that make buggy programs, to make Linux Apps?
  • I have played Rage Of Mages (I) and I didn't think it was all that good. I guess I could focus on the bad parts... Well, the single player was like a mix between a rpg and a strategy game. You could buy weapons for your heros at the store and you would go through boards like age of empires. the graphics were ok but all 2d i think. the multiplayer was horrible and slow. you could just go outside and kill things to get money and skills. It was a complete waste of time and if you died, you lost everthing (items, sword, armor, etc.). The game crashed about 10 times totally for me so I can't say it is that stable because I only played it once through and the multiplayer for about 1-2 hours. But I don't know if I could blame this on the engine - it may have been the company that made this. I went to the website and it looks like the engine product liscense is like $250,000. (correct me if im wrong). I don't know how many people will pay that much for an engine...
  • Yea, you're probably right when you consider all the research and development and work costs... I've never seen such a high price before so I was sort of amazed.
  • My personal opinion:
    With the way games have evolved so rapidly, Shogo is a little behind the times now. Plus, it's really more of a first person shooter type game than a "Giant Robot Crushing Things" game. Part of the time you are a human and it is just like every other fps, and some of the time you are in a giant robot, but it's easy to forget since it still plays like an fps.
    It's still s decent game but if you're looking for an fps there's this little game called Quake 3 you might want to look into.... *droooool*

    - -- ---Poppa Squirl--- -- -
    - -- ---Poppa Squirl--- -- -
    "If the hole is too small, the hamsters won't fit."

  • I'm really excited that there are all these games being ported to Linux (including to of my favorites: SimCity and Civilization).

    But, there are SO MANY games that aren't even ported to the Mac yet? I very mich like the "Theme" games (Theme Park, Theme Hospital, etc.) and that company (BullFrog [bullfrog.co.uk]) has no interest in porting their games to anything else (and their website doesn't appear to work under Linux/NN4.7!, and there doesn't seem to be an e-mail address for their webmaster --- the pop-up for "Credits" fails to show the image that actually tells who is responsible!).

    For that matter, has anyone ever heard anything from the Myst/Riven people (Cyan [agesofmyst.com]) about porting either to Linux? At least THEY have a Mac port...

    Sorry to be sort of an unenthusiastic wet noodle about what really is good news, but it just seems that we jump whenever any company throws us a bone, while the others just completely ignore us. (I've been trying to get specs from Epson so that I can use my new color pritner, but their [mailto] response has been basically "What's Linux?"), so I suppose that's coloring (no pun intended) my attitude.


  • Monolith might get more people playing Shogo in Linux than they do in Windows. To wit: I could rarely find a Shogo server when the game first came out, and now, hell, multiplayer Shogo? What? Huh? Whassat?

    They'll probably double their customer base. IMHO. (Great game, but man, what a fickle gaming crowd, or something.)

  • The game engine is a direct 3d game engine. They are going to have a hard time. Since they are probably going to port it to openGL they can probably also get an openGL version for windows.

    Myth II [lokigames.com], ported by Loki Software from the original by Bungie Software [bungie.com], ran under Direct3D in the Windows version (I have no idea what it ran on the Mac version), so this sort of problem has already been solved at some level. I note that Lithtech already have ports to platforms other than Windows anyway (Apple Mac and Amiga) due to a deal made with Hyperion Software in April 1999, so there must be a reasonably clean level of separation between the graphic rendering side and the underlying engine.

    Cheers,

    Toby Haynes

  • Couldn't agree with this more. My wife has already declared that as soon as there are

    1) educational games for linux
    2) a decent checkbook program (no, not cbb, but I have to give GNUcash a shot)
    3) a port of lotus smartsuite available

    that i can then bring her computer back from the darkside. it is the last bastion of windows in the house (five computers).

    How long will it have to be? My three year old son declares "I don't like Linux" because he can't play Elmo's Preschool on it. He does, however, like SameGnome, and promptly declares linux the greatest when I let him play on it.

  • Look at www.tribsoft.com for more info.

  • Speaking as a licensee of Monolith's (we're making the product that's currently codenamed Lithtech Film Producer [strangecompany.org]), this announcement has made us very happy, too. We've had a lot of complaints the our beta demo, Ozymandias [strangecompany.org], isn't compatible with Linux (and Mac), and I was just about to look into the possibility of porting ourselves when they made the announcement!
  • Hopefully, when this release comes out, Monolith will fix the V0.90 modem bug with the software. If not, Shogo will flop about as much as it did on the PC, as 1000+ pings tend to upset players.
  • Everyone has to stop going crazy over getting a port of starcraft and just try to get Warcraft 3 ported so it is released at the same time as the windows version!! that is what would make me happy :) but that is just my 2.
  • Tux Games [tuxgames.com] will stock this game as soon as it becomes available to us. We pledge to stock any commercial game for Linux that is not of low quality or priced to rip-off Linux users.
  • You could buy it from EBworld for 49.99 + shipping or Tux Games for $37 inc chipping. Up to you of course {:-)
  • You make a good point. I guess I haven't seen enough crap ported to Linux to think about that. Like you say, I'm sure it'll happen (or is happening, I don't buy that many games).
  • Yes indeed we jump at every time a company ports to Linux. That's what we should be doing. Companies who are short sighted enough to only write for Windows (with Linux and mac platforms gaining ground every day to differing degrees) will soon learn their lesson or they won't be around much longer. Companies should be applauded for porting to Linux and when we buy their Linux games it sends a message to the stupider companies to get their acts together. I kind of liked Shogo on the PC and I know I'll buy it if they sell it for Linux, not just because it's a cool game but I want to support their efforts.

    I think the Myst people pretty much ported their stuff to the PC because AFAIK they do all their dev on macs. I could be wrong though.

  • Before they even had code, Slashdot posted their call for developers. So the support's there, it's just on a very hit and miss level.

    True, but have you heard any other mention of them (or of Altima / WorldForge *grin*)? One announcement on Slashdot can supply a PROFOUND amount of resources to a net project, and thus can be much more valuable than just tossing money at it. WorldForge is where it is today largely _because_ of the initial Slashdot mention, IMHO.

    I really truly believe that Slashdot could serve a very important role in helping organize and drive some of the really ambitious open source efforts towards success, if it wanted. The commercial Linux fixation is getting old, IMHO.

  • I just can't resist putting my opinion in on this one. Shogo: Mobile Armor Division is a CRAPPY GAME. Last xmas, I picked up quite a few FPS games, including Shogo, SiN, Half-Life, and Heretic II (close enough). By far, Shogo was the worst. It's not toally without redeeming qualities: the LithTech engine itself is rather nice, and is praiseworthy for it's excellent performance relative to other engines of the time. But what I'm really talking here is the content, not the technology. At the same time that SiN and Half-Life were raising environmental interactivity to all new heights, Shogo was less interactive than Quake. And it's AI was pathetic. Enemies would run in place against walls that partially blocked their path, had no concepts of avoiding fire, and in general just acted stupid. The on-foot missions were excruciatingly difficult, owing to the somewhat realistic representation of how many bullets a human body can take (this is a case where gameplay should have trumped realism). Basically, Shogo was a step backward for the FPS genre, not a step forward like Half-Life (although that game was certainly not without its problems, and was hardly deserving of the 11 out of 10 that PCXL gave it). I will admit that many of the weapons were pretty neat, and that the on-foot/in-robot dual modes of gameplay was pretty innovative, but these small points failed to redeem the game. What I do feel really did it for many is its use of anime... sort of. The only anime elements I really saw were the bizarre plot, the character mugshots, and the giant-robot influence.

    The above is true for Blood II as well, only no anime.

    But Monolith does have other games... Septerra Core has won that same "critical acclaim", though my RPG'ing friends are divided as to whether it's decent or totally blows. I'll reserve my own judgment until I can play the demo. Monolith's other RPM, Odium, I have heard nothing about, though I intend to secure its demo as well.

    At any rate, more game houses porting their wares to Linux is always a Good Thing(tm) I guess. But realistically, until the hardware support infrastructure for 3D games has matured and the stability of the Linux releases is good enough for them to be "supported" (some are there now), I will continue to game in Windows...

    MoNsTeR
  • Microsoft is suddenly becoming a powerhouse in the PC game industry. Only two years ago just about every title designed or published by MS was laughed out of stores.

    Now they've got Age of Empires 2 burning up the sales charts and Asheron's Call making a serious challenge to online games like Ultima Online and Everquest. And MS has other big-name projects emerging in the next few months.

    More than a year ago, I did a market research study for a big, established PC game company, and they made it very clear that they were terrified of MS' impending foray into the game world. Now that seems to be justified.

    I'm wondering if these recent porting moves are the result of game companies realizing what other software companies grasped years ago... that making your product depend on your largest competitor's API/OS is a BAD IDEA.
  • I have to chime in with Bryce on this one. I have followed the mailing list (and then lists) for Worldforge [worldforge.org] since before it was Altima, and the work that has gone on is truly amazing. It has closely followed the benevolent dictator model of development, as well as the release early release often model. I know that there are sites for just Linux games, but I remember a time when links about Altima and other less main-stream topics were more frequent here on /.

    Ah well, I am not going to jump on the "I remember when Slashdot was about geeks" bandwagon, but there are plenty of open source and fringe projects that are more worthy of mention than Slashdot is giving them these days.

  • I have to disagree with what you've said about Shogo. Shogo was perhaps the best FPS ever (only possibly because it is hard to choose between Shogo and Half-Life). Why?

    1. There is a plot. A REAL plot. An INTRIGUING plot.

    2. The graphics rival Q3 and UT even though it is a year or two old.

    3. The game engine is incredible!

    4. The gameplay is incredible!

    5. The weapons/items/etc are actually innovative and fun!

    The only three drawbacks I see are:

    1. The game seemed too short. At the end, you are left thinking "wait a minute... there should be more!"

    2. The multiplayer wasn't the best. The whole mobile armor concept just didn't seem to lend itself too well to DM.

    3. You couldn't rebind the zoom key for the sniper rifle (if you've ever played you know why this kinda sucks :()


    Anyways, to put it simply: Shogo kicks ass!
  • Perhaps a special Quickies is needed, describing the various open-source game projects? Problem is, there's far more projects than can be given space. That's what linuxgames.com is for. But a run down on the major (and code-producing) projects would be a nice idea.

    On the other hand, it's not like Slashdot is head over heels on the commercial Linux thing. Yeah, Redhat and SuSE and Caldera and Corel and Debian are all featured, but they're the big ones, the Quakes' of the commercial world so to say. Most smaller distributions get one notice (RTLinux or so) or none.

  • Before they even had code, Slashdot posted their call for developers. So the support's there, it's just on a very hit and miss level.
  • You could also check out Crystal Space. It is an Open Source 3D Engine which runs on Linux, Windows, OS/2, BeOS, DOS, Macintosh, FreeBSD, SGI, Solaris, OpenStep, NextStep, ... It can use OpenGL, Direct3D, Glide, or software rendering. It features things like curved surfaces, volumetric fog, halos, ROAM landscape engine, portals, octree visibility culling, 3D triangle mesh objects with dynamic LOD and frame based or skeletal based animation, dynamic colored lights with soft shadows, ...

    URL: http://crystal.linuxgames.com

    Greetings,
  • EA's already jumped in, or at least Maxis who is owned by EA has. Simcity 3000 is being ported to linux by Loki. [slashdot.org]
  • Did you SUBMIT a story about the work you are doing to Slashdot? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Slashdot editors (or story posters, they could use an editor) pick and choose from stories which are SUBMITTED. If you think that Slashdot readers need to know about your project (or any other project for that matter) write or submit an article! I'd like to know about your project, but the way it works is that if you don't tell anyone (Rob, Hemos, et. al.) about it, then no one hears about it.

    Skippy
  • Lithtech's site is at lithtech.com [lithtech.com] not lith.com, which is a dead site.
  • ...raise your hands!

    (wow, that's a lot of hands)
  • Shoot, I missed seeing this late yesterday. I talked on e-mail with a V.P from Monolith once and asked him about Linux games. He only said they were waiting to see where the market was going. Way cool of them to come around.

  • When I go into the store, I ask them if it's out on the iMac (my son's computer) or Linux. I make them look it up to see when it'll be for one of those.

    If it won't work with either of those - I don't buy it.

    Windows is so 20th Century.

  • The game engine is a direct 3d game engine. They are going to have a hard time. Since they are probably going to port it to openGL they can probably also get an openGL version for windows.
  • Picture this. Someone buys a brand new copy of Shogo, their favorite windows game because of its shlightly offbeat and unusual nature, loads it up into linux, giggling with anticipation. He installs it. Opps, need a new version of Mesa. He downloads it and installs. He giggles with anticipation as the game loads. He enters the level, and...
    he sees the unaccelerated, blocky backgrounds running at 15 fps. He thinks to himself, doh! He borrows his friend's aging Voodoo 3 and puts it in in place of his GeForce DDR. He giggles with anticipation. He sets the settings to medium to go easy on the voodoo. He giggles with anticipation. Soon he is off. Lower res and slower than he is used to in windows, but playable. He enters a fight and hears... nothing because his brand new MonsterSound MX300 is not supported. Doh again! Thinking this is a good time to upgrade, he rushes and buys a new soundblaster live! He giggles in anticipation. He enters the fight. He gets fragged by someone behind him because he couldn't hear him since 3D sound is not supported under Linux. Doh the third time! Well, who needs 3D sound. He hooks up his Wingman force and starts fragging and feels... nothing, because Linux does not have a force feedback API. He thinks, well, I've giving it 4 strikes, one more than in baseball, I'm finished. He reboots into windows.
  • You've not tried an X server with DRI (Direct Rendering Infrastructure). I am running XFree 3.9.17, with the DRI for the Voodoo 3. DRI removes the last advantage Windows had over Linux as a game platform: Q3A runs as fast under Linux as it does under Windows. Further, because Linux will support SMP (and Windows 9X won't) we have the advantage over Windows.

    And as for 3D sound, IIRC wasn't A3D ported to the SBLive driver for Linux?

    Suggestion: Live in the Now, not the past.
  • Yes, but the extremely cool Mech I and II are still fair game for a port. As for how it compares to M3, I'll say that M3 was a 9 and it is probably a 7.5. Reasonably good, but you'll probably be far too addicted to Fallout2 or Quake I/II/III to play it much.

    Side gripe: If Loki is porting Interstate '82, why not grab '76 at the same time? The original was better! There is nothing quite like a Pacer with a Chevy big-block and two fender mounted mini-guns.
  • Ooh! So I can play QW, madly fragging the Aussies while waiting in line to pay for my Ramen noodles, Heineken Dark and salsa? Or play I `82 whilst locked in traffic? I can see people giving me the evil eye as I scream "Get off my fender or you'll be eating a full load of lead Grandma! F*** you, freaking semi! Here's a grenade for your time!"

    Be still my beating heart! Please!
  • You can be sure that companies are going to be more interested in porting and writing games on Linux now. Over the next two years more and more Linux devices, many of them portable, will appear, and a large market for these
    devices will be for games, and especially network games!


    That's real nice but why network games? I still would like to play games by myself most of the time and generally do not like interaction or being forced to use a network if I do not want to. I would rather have a killer desktop machine than a mediocre(sp) hand held device.

    You could be playing you game around the house, in the garden etc, but loading the game data from inside the house, across a bluetooth link or wireless ethernet link - basically a remote disk drive. No more having to leave the
    computer behind when you are forced to go into the garden/shopping/etc! :-)


    Unfortunately I think that there would be problems generally with this concept. The modern concept of games has generally been to take *full* advantage of fast processors and lots of ram and HD space. This will always limit the types of games that a hand held could run without getting really bogged down or getting damaged really fast.

    Developers need to get aquainted with programming games for Linux as soon as possible. XFree86 4 will makes things even better for them


    I just see really high end video card support not making things better for embedded systems programming for hand helds. Unless this next realease can fit on a floppy and run in 2 Mb of ram then it will not be a feasible option. Qnx is more like it for hand held devices.
  • I have been following your project for a while, and am genuinely impressed of a great job being done.

    Your project would make a great information OS /. story, not only because it is OS, but that it distinguishes itself by demonstrating some useful solutions to the "artist/content problem" that many other OS gfx-related project can benefit from.

    There were a short thread recently about how the home-made (i.e., non-big-game-corporation) games are dead. Because (supposedly) new games require the kind of content that cannot be obtained without a huge budget for art, et. al.

    Your project dealt with this dilemma admirably.

    Many potential home-made game developers can learn from your story.

    Tell you what.

    1. I will write Hemos /. and ask to have your project be made news.

    2. They'd probably ignore us. :) (Am I pessimistic, Hemos?)

    3. If they do, we can talk about other non-/. ways where we can put you in touch with other home-made game makers (and potential contributors), and other ways to get get your project more well-known, okay? :)

    4. If you don't mind I would like you to discuss and share your content development solutions to potential set tops hackers.

    Next-Gen set tops have some great hacking potential lacking even in some next-gen PC HW accelerators. And I would love to see some great set top hacks along some creative inventions of pixel pipeline routes. If supposedly "content" (which I still disagree :) ) is stopping them, then it is content we should figure out how to solve. :)

    I want to help. I think you can help many others. Let's talk off-line.


  • It seems as though games are the first class of real "desktop" applications that are being ported to Linux in any number. Is this because Linux people tend to be a bunch of games hounds, or because game makers are more likely to be Linux friendly? Will games be the first reall killer app for Linux on the desktop?

  • When it comes to gaming in Linux, all I ever hear is that this game or that needs to be ported. Sometimes it sounds like a kid brother wanting to do what his big brother gets to do.

    Being able to run Shogo, Quake, or any of the other big-name, big-effects games is nice, but that's not going to convince anyone that Linux is a viable gaming platform.

    What will turn heads is when some company, either one of the current or some startup, designs and builds a top-notch game specifically for Linux. When non-Linux users see that there is something out there that they can't have, then they'll sit up and take notice.

  • I came across an interesting item on the Jagged Alliance web site (www.jaggedalliance.com): "Jagged Alliance 2 To Be Ported To Linux: Tribsoft will be developing a Linux port of Jagged Alliance 2. Jagged Alliance 2 for Linux will be bundled with the new Jagged Alliance 2: Unfinished Business expansion pack. "The growing acceptance of Linux is one of the most important trends in this industry," said series creator Ian Currie. "We're extremely pleased that Tribsoft will be bringing Jagged Alliance 2 to this platform." Jagged Alliance 2 for Linux will be available in Spring 2000. " For those of you not familiar with Jagged Alliance 2, it is an excellent game and hopefully Sir-Tech will continue to port some of its upcoming games, I'd love to see Wizardry 8 for Linux ;).

  • Then let me be the first to say "Thanks Microsoft" (Score:3)

    by Danse ( 1026 ) on Thursday January 20, 2000 @12:30PM (#1354722)

    Hmmm.. when you look at it that way, Microsoft's decision to venture into gaming could do great things for Linux gaming. I certainly hope things continue along the track they're currently on. Seems like something cool related to Linux gaming is being announced every week now.

  • We also need children's and educational games (Score:3)

    by SurfsUp ( 11523 ) on Thursday January 20, 2000 @08:42AM (#1354723)
    The floodgates are pretty much opening right now, for "big boy" games for Linux, and *everybody* will soon be jumping on. When Electronic Arts jumps in... well, it's going to happen any time./ Chances are they're working on a few ports already just to assess the technology.

    That's coming nicely I'd say. Now we have to start thinking beyond that: lots of people aren't going to put Windows away for good until their children can play games, especially educational games on dad's computer. That's the new frontier.

  • Article text (edited) (Score:3)

    by TheDullBlade ( 28998 ) on Thursday January 20, 2000 @08:48AM (#1354724)
    LithTech/ Linux Press release - Posted 1/19/2000 by Tom Kirkland, WA (January 19, 1999) -

    Monolith Productions and Hyperion Software announced today that they have extended an existing licensing agreement to include a port of Monolith's critically acclaimed Shogo: Mobile Armor Division and LithTech 1.0 and 2.0 to the Linux operating system. The Linux port is expected to be available in the second quarter of 2000. Under an initial agreement with Monolith in April, 1999, Hyperion agreed to port Shogo and the LithTech 3D Engine to both the Amiga and Apple Macintosh platforms (http://www.lith.com/corporate/04_28_1 999.html [lith.com]). The existing agreement has now been extended to include Linux for x86 and Power PC processors.

    "Porting the LithTech 3D engine to Linux gives licensees and game players one more reason to choose LithTech technology and LithTech-based games" comments Jason Hall, CEO of Monolith Productions. "Our latest agreement with Hyperion continues our quest to provide the highest quality, most versatile 3D engine in the market."

    The LithTech 3D Engine, the technology behind Shogo: M.A.D. and upcoming Monolith games Sanity and No One Lives Forever, allows for a full range of cutting edge graphic effects, from spectacular lighting to highly detailed character models. The engine also allows designers to create breath-taking outdoor areas from magnificent mountain ranges to sprawling cities. Current LithTech licensees include Third Law Interactive and New World Computing. Extensive information including FAQ's about LithTech can be found at www.lithtech.com.

    Shogo: Mobile Armor Division, inspired by the Japanese "anime" tradition, is an action-packed first-person shooter combining spectacular environments (from neon-lit, futuristic cityscapes to gaping desert ravines and canyons) with a meaningful storyline packed with intriguing characters, plot revelations and huge transforming machines known as mecha.

    About Monolith Productions, Inc.
    Monolith Productions, Inc., based in Kirkland, WA, is focused on combining uncompromising gaming content with the ultimate in high-end gaming technology. Founded by six game developers in 1995, Monolith's passion for programming resulted in the creation of the LithTech 3D Engine. This proprietary software is used in the creation of Monolith products, such as the well-received Shogo: Mobile Armor Division, and is available for license to the wider development community. For the latest news and information on Monolith and it products, visit their Web site at http://www.lith.com [lithtech.com].

    About Hyperion Software
    Hyperion is a recently established Belgian-German software house dedicated to bringing high-end PC games to PowerPC based Amiga and Mac computers. Individual members of the Hyperion team have been involved in various commercial and non-commercial projects on the Amiga, Mac, Linux and PC platforms. For any information about Hyperion Software, visit their website at http://www.hyperion-software.com [hyperion-software.com]

  • Has anyone played these games? (Score:3)

    by scotch ( 102596 ) on Thursday January 20, 2000 @08:41AM (#1354725) Homepage
    Can anyone who has any experience with these games give us a nice description so we'll all know how important this is to us? I can only hold my breath for so many things.

    In related news, Mattel recently announced that it would be porting the entire series of "Barbie and Ken" doll computer games to the Linux operating system. According to company spokesperson Jim Nasium "we see the market segment represented by Linux users and programmers as a completely untapped resource for generating revenue." The Ken and Barbe series includes the wildy popular "Which way does Ken Swing" and "Barbie Life" in which the goal is to navigate Barbie through a series of life-changing decisions while avoiding the evils of pimps and crack dealers. AP.

  • Games maketh the machine (Score:3)

    by Goldberg's Pants ( 139800 ) on Thursday January 20, 2000 @08:44AM (#1354726) Journal
    Games are what defines an OS or machine. Take the Amiga. In the early 90's THAT was the computer of choice in Europe. Lots of great (and not so great) games, and life was good. Then a certain software company released a certain game called DOOM. People saw that it was good. PC's were seen as serious games machines, and people moved to the PC. The games developers stopped developing for the Amiga and moved to the PC when the market grew, and the Amiga died. (As a mainstream machine.) While there's a trickle of games for Linux right now, sooner or later, hopefully, the dam will break, and the floodgates will open. Linux needs it's version of "Doom". A killer game that blows the competition away and makes people sit up and take notice. Here's to a Linux port of Championship Manager 99/00! (Not that that would sell Linux to 99.999% of the population, but oh well...)

  • But is it open source? (Score:4)

    by Bryce ( 1842 ) on Thursday January 20, 2000 @08:49AM (#1354727) Homepage
    Okay, I'm biased since I'm working on one, but I sure would like to see Slashdot give more attention to the many free software game projects. There's a *lot* of them out there, and many are doing some very cool things. I mean, Slashdot *does* support open source software development, right? (Right???)

  • an important point people are missing (Score:4)

    by SEAL ( 88488 ) on Thursday January 20, 2000 @09:14AM (#1354728)
    The Lithtech engine is the underlying layer for the games. So if it gets ported to Linux, you can expect that it will be VERY easy to port other games to Linux in the future.

    Lithtech handles more than just the graphics. There's sound and network support also. Porting this engine will be a big job, but that effort will then apply towards ALL games that use it.

    Best regards,

    SEAL

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