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Games Entertainment

Sega Dreamcast: $0 119

Posted by jamie from the tanstaafl dept.
According to this CNN article, Sega will announce today a $200 rebate on its $200 Dreamcast console. They'll even throw in a free keyboard. Game consoles have always played "lose money on the razor, make it on the blades," but now, the blades have changed: the catch is a mandatory two years of their online service at $22/mo. So, exactly how much ass do the Dreamcast's online games kick?
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Sega Dreamcast: $0 More

Sega Dreamcast: $0

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  • Hmm. Idea? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What if one person bought like 10 dreamcasts, and got the rebate on all of them. Then, they can only be signed up for the ISP once, right? I mean, how could they bill him 10 times for the same thing?

    Anyone want to pitch in for the total $520, and get your own dreamcast?

  • 2 years of service or free? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Does anyone know what the terms of agreement on the online service? Can you get around it if you live in California? (like the microsoft one?)

  • Re:Hmm.... do the math... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If you can call breakdancing fun. Why don't you just steal a pack of cards from a store and move to some third-world country, like Iowa?

  • Re:At last!! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Supreme Judicial Council
    Uncle Vladimir's Campaign for Linguistic Purity (Marxist-Leninist wing)
    Suite 1245679
    Palais des Bons Mots
    Monte Carlo
    Principality of Monaco

    To our respected friend and colleague, Yu Suzuki.

    Firstly, let me congratulate you on your splendid work over many years. It takes a special courage and talent to enforce our rules, and you, until very recently, set a towering example to us all. Many times temptation beats on our doors, and in navigating a twisting and wayward route in its avoidance, we are often drawn to moments of weakness. Our creed is absolute. All letters are not as equals. All letters are not to be treated as equals. A certain letter, taken by some to lie between 'G' and 'I' in a commonly used orderly recitation of letters, is in particular utterly proscribed by our beliefs.

    A person so illustrious as yourself cannot, in view of our deepest beliefs, but be mortified by a recent lapse drawn to our attention of late, a lapse allegedly committed in composing a warning notice recently served by your good self upon a poster in our present vicinity. A lapse resulting in public display of our forbidden letter, made only worse insofar as it actually, and it seems unprecedentedly, took place as part of your previously impeccable execution of your duties.

    It was our duty, as usual in cases involving exposure of proscribed words and letters, or of numbers capable of being written or pronounced in a manner liable to involve a similar offense, to convene in your absence a quasi-judicial body competent to interpret your actions in view of our beliefs and ancestral sagas. A comparable incident is practically unknown in our lore and tradition, and presents to us little by way of precedent to aid our difficult decision. We present our judicial findings in sadness and regret.

    Since your offense was so blatant and brazen, posted for all to read, and preserved, undeniably, on a server able to reproduce, and so re-commit your offense ad infinitum, we, in our official capacity as elected servants of Uncle Vladimir's Campaign for Linguistic Purity (Marxist-Leninist wing), can offer no alternative to your immediate expulsion from UVCLP(M-L).

    You are served notice as follows:
    Your term of service as Purity Monitor, World Wide Web is terminated effective immediately.
    You are evicted from aforementioned World Wide Web at one week's notice.
    Your rank is reduced from Senior Purity Monitor to Typeface Inspector (II) responsible for all variants of emacs, also effective immediately.
    You are placed on probation for a period of one year from today. During your probation, any minor infraction of our laws will incur greater penalties still.

    Terms are absolute, and as you will be aware no appeal process is offered.

    Yours in purity

    Teodor Jaruzelski
    Justice Division
    UVCLP(L-M)

  • OFF TOPIC!

    Old English:

    Really closer to Flemish or "Flemming" as anything... That's the Frisian language spoken in parts of Nederland and Belgie.

    The first Saxon invaders of Britain were brothers, Hengst and Horsa were their names, if I recall correctly.

    They hailed from this part of the continent. Hired on as mercenaries, to protect the last vestige of roman-british government... They found out that there was more money in running things themselves, and burned the British Dux (Duke) in his fort. I think he was called Vortigern.

    Pretty stirring stuff! A few generations down the line, with lots of Danish-blooded Jutes thrown into the mix, these folks produce Beowulf, providing a romantic glance backward at their pagan halcyon days...

    'Course, I might be mistaken.

    This should be anEverything thread!

  • While you can connect the DC to a SVGA monitor (Mmmm.. Soul Calibur), all the audiovisuals on the site were taken with just a TV capture card (Hauppauge WinTV) and my good old Sound Blaster 16.
  • Who was the genius who thought it was a good idea to lead off Sega's online gaming service with Chu Chu Rocket? What the hell is a Chu Chu Rocket?

    "All you have to do is herd your ChuChus (space mice) into their rocket before the Kapu Kapu (scary space cats) catch up to them."

    Boyoboy am I excited. Oh, I know better things will come but if you're trying to lock people in for two years with a deal that's pretty crummy to begin with, you'd better have a "killer game" to sell it with. Chu Chu Rocket sounds about as much fun thumb screws.
  • I would rather have a dreamcast running unreal tournament and q3 arena on my network. it's dedicated to doing it, it's not interrupting my other processes. I dont really -want- games on my linux box. The purpose of my linux machine is to be stable and serve files, pages, mail, etc... If I can get specialized hardware for the gaming, all the better. I wont be one of the users that signs up for dialup, but I will be getting that ethernet tap in q4.
  • It seems to me, that as the DC (presumably) does PPP over its 56k modem, that a Linux box set up for IP Masq could be used to share a cable modem, DSL or whatever high-speed connection.

    And I guess a Linux box full of modems could be used for DC LAN parties.

    Anybody ever try this? How do you get 2 modems to connect to each other without using the phone system?

  • Well, they're going to port Quake III:Arena to it, so I think it'll kick a *lot* of ass. :)

    They also will have an mp3 player for it... Is there a new law that says hardware devices expand until they can play mp3's?

    I'm surprised they aren't selling internet access like WebTV or something, though. And I'm sure Sega could have the best VRML plug-ins ever! ;)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
  • It could be expanding very slowly. :)

    But seriously, I meant this as a law of Hardware Envelopment, as a counterpoint to this one.

    The Law of Software Envelopment:
    "Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs that cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can." -- JWZ

    Examples of this are Emacs and Netscape.

    Therefore:

    Proposed Law of Hardware Envelopment:
    "Every console attempts to expand until it can play mp3's. Those consoles that cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can." -- PDB

    Comments?
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].

  • Re:yeah... (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    You scared me for a second there. I didn't think they had a WinCE port of Quake 3 *yet*, or for that matter an x86 translator for the SH4, they'll have to get Transmeta working on it right away... ;)

    Yeah, but will the X-Box run Linux? (it could if it wants to be both a "Cheap-PC" *and* an "X-Box", I mean, my cheap PC is an X box because it runs Linux...)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [152.7.41.11].
  • Anyhow, one thing he brought up was how well designed the MediaOne network was, by comparing the latency to the speed of light.

    Hate to burst your bubble, but that's not really that big of a deal; most ethernet networks come within an order of magnitude of the speed of light.

    Stewart Cheshire (of Bolo fame) has wrote an excellent article on latency and bandwidth called "It's the Latency, Stupid." Check it out here [stanford.edu].


    --
    odds of being killed by lighning and
  • any way to get around that $22/mo (like cancelling or something) and still get your DC? :)
  • The Microsoft thing happened because Microsoft termed the MSN $400 rebate as a loan, and California law says you can't bundle a product with a loan.
  • I said: "...but the hardware will run WinCE..."
    You said: "For the 23434534234th time on Slashdot, the WinCE is not built into teh DC"

    So I say, I know that's why I said what I said, not some comment about being bundled with WinCE. Also, I don't hate MS.

  • Have you ever signed up for 10 subscriptions of TeenIdol magazine so that you can recieve 10 free packages of Lorel lipstick?

    Of course you haven't, cause that would be dumb.

    BTW - I'm just using that as an example, really, I didn't actually...

    "I can only show you Linux... you're the one who has to read the man pages."

  • But I wonder what this means if they pull an Atari and are no longer in existance in 13 months or so... Free Dreamcast!
  • How do you get 2 modems to connect to each other without using the phone system?

    Well, you need the right kind of cable, with switched pairs... You'd also have to either: A) set both modems to ignore the lack of a dial tone, or B) trick out something electrical to put a dial tone on there when you needed it. Then you just have the dialing modem do an ATDT and the answering one do an ATA.. Voila, sloooow connection.

    Probably simpler to open the sucker up and wire a serial port out the back for a null modem cable.

    ---

  • Er. (Score:1)

    by FatSean ( 18753 )
    Did that post really /really/ make you roll on the floor laughing? 'Cause if it did, I'm so very sorry...
  • MarioKarts was the best game ever. Not the shite N64 version, the original - with bananas, mushrooms, red and green turtles, go faster stripes, hop buttons, jump bars, cunningly hidden shortcuts, flat everything - dammit man, the ghost track!!!. By far the best. God we lost hours, nay months to this.

    That's it, I'm jacking in work to write an open source MarioKarts.

    Dave :)

  • I realised that after I posted. To bring it up in a half dozen or so posts as so many have is pedantry at best. The actual cost is $526.80 if you want to get really anal about it.
  • Or to put it another way, they make about $328 off of you all costs considered. The equipment probably costs them $130, and the ISP on average $70 out of the $520 to support. If I dial into my current ISP instead, I pay $504 with or without a Dreamcast anyways. I don't see the benifit of online gaming. Ultima online was the last one I've played, and Asheron and EverQuest didn't seem to learn from origin's mistakes.
  • Ooh, I now have groupies following me across the Slashdot landscape!..

    Listen, oh unworthy one! Attend to my posts diligently and in time even you may attain sentience. Thus spake Kaa.

    Kaa
  • Often, game companies do lose money on the console. But Sega is apparently making somewhere around $20 on each console sold. Retailers make almost no money on consoles. I work at a retailer, and my understanding is our cost is somewhere in the neighborhood of $180. So it probably costs Sega around $160-170 to manufacture a Dreamcast.
  • The equipment probably costs them $130

    Hmm, I really don't think it even costs them that much.

    I'm no expert, so take this with as many grains of salt as you like, but I've read here on Slashdot many times that console makers typically lose money on the consoles themselves, making it up in game licensing. So if this is true, maybe it really costs them $3 or 400+?

  • Well, it's unlikely that the bandwidth would be chewed up by pr0n...

  • Note that the logo is "Compatible with Microsoft Windows CE". I'm reading this right off the front of the console btw.

    It's been stated numerous times that the console does not in fact run Windows CE, that is dependant upon the software title.

    The browser that ships with it is a planetweb hack, not IE. I do kinda wish that IE or Netscape had the same "right click" type functionality that the Sega browser does, 640x480 is way to small to make it actually very useful.

  • And to top it all off, once you upgrade the dreamcast browser so that you can download mp3's you can no longer connect to the internet via another ISP, only theirs.. what do you know.

  • That is pretty damn cool with the blue light. And looking around your site, you got quite a few DC releated things. The thing I'm wondering about is how you got the screenshots to your computer. They don't look like you scanned them in from a picture, so I'm guessing you connected the DC to the monitor or something? How exactly did you do it?
  • I found an effective deterrent against buying a new videogame console:

    1. Get rid of your old tv. Mine's a small 13-inch tv, so that's no problem.
    2. Buy a TV tuner card
    3. Hook up videogame console to TV tuner card(on your nice 17 inch monitor) and play through your computer.

    4. Realize you could of saved yourself all that trouble by playing said games on your computer.
  • Hm.... does it sound like the whole i-opener thing is catching up to us?
  • ...The idea is that Sega will try to make thier bandwidth dedicated to network games. Somehow I feel that it's quite evil to dedicate the entire ISP service to consume bandwidth on games.
  • This might be worth it. Simson Garfinkel had an article in the Boston Globe a few months ago (can only search last 2 weeks for free, sorry guys), and was comparing DSL and cable. Anyhow, one thing he brought up was how well designed the MediaOne network was, by comparing the latency to the speed of light. From Cape Cod to NJ, it was fricking great. If Sega could create such an idiot proof nation wide network, even 3733T pc gamers might buy in.

    Of course, if they want to let DSL and cable modem people like myself use it, then they would become subject to the existing vagaries of the net

    hmmmm. Tough call when you consider the demographics of high speed home net users, who are probably the types to have early adopted a console system as well.

    matt
  • Why can't I just pay $0 cash for a DC and then sign a bogus name (Bill Gates) to the service contract? Not everyone in the world has a credit card. How would they track you down?

    Later...
  • I wonder what Circuit City would do if I walked in and paid cash for an iOpener and then signed Bill Gates on the service contract? I mean, they won't come and take my iOpener away from me because I am not paying my monthly fee, right?!?

    Later...
  • I'm starting to wonder why emacs doesn't play mp3s..
    oh wait....
  • If I'm not mistaken, the same legal argument that holds for MS/eMachines and their $400 rebate would hold up here. So, go grab it for free while you still can.
  • Wasn't it in California that MS made the big "$400 Rebate" fiasco?
    Could people use this for a free Dreamcast by cancelling the $22/month?
    I'm just curious...

    -Vel
  • ...but my AP English teacher was a Sadochist. After writing essays about a text you could barely read, the AP test itself was a breeze...

  • Have any of you ever read the book "Beowulf"? In the original Old English? It's not as exciting as you think, really...
  • So it's sort of like paying full retail for the box and getting your internet access for around $14 a month. That is not a good deal. It doesn't even sound like a loss-leader, like that i-opener thing.
  • I completely agree. My friends and I spend many a day just vegetating in from of that damn game. Back then it was something special to have a red turtle, not like in N64 where you get 3 at a time, to fire off like an idiot because you knew you get another in a few seconds. And what about the battle part? That rocked in snes, but was completely unplayable in n64. Damn you Nintendo.
  • then what should the internet be used for?
    i mean, is Sega's gaming network going to interfere with you bandwidth-hungry project to feed the world's starving masses?
    what is an acceptible use of bandwidth?
  • Definitly not worth if you have to pay for the games also, $50 a pop.

    If unlimited game play came with the service, it would be worth it. :)

    I only purchase 1 maybe 2 new games a year because of the price. The rest I buy used from $5 to $20. I also get a 30 day trial period on the used games to see if I like them, not so with new games.
    --
  • I agree, I just don't see what about Scientology is so appealing. In my humble opinion it is just a bunch of Psychobable about how your personality determines your destiny, blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. People can choose their own religion, but I wouldn't want to choose Scientology.
  • Hmmm...isn't this just like the rebate offer Microsoft had a while back? X amount of rebate, but you have to sign up for Y amount of service from MSN...but because of CA law, they couldn't bind you to the service. Anyone know how similar this offer is to the MS one, in terms of legality?
  • They also will have an mp3 player for it... Is there a new law that says hardware devices expand until they can play mp3's?

    Well, I just checked, and the paperclip sitting on my desk cannot yet play mp3s. As it isn't expanding at the moment, I think that it disproves your conjecture by demonstrating the existance of a hardware device which is neither expanding nor capable of playing mp3s.
  • http://www.dailyradar.com/news/game_ news_2506.html for more information.
    Thad
  • I'm trying to keep out of this discussion, but I feel that some people are looking at this the wrong way.

    1. Is the Dreamcast free?
    Yes. You get $200 bucks back for signing up for the ISP. So what if you have to pay $500 up front? You get 2 years of internet access, a Dreamcast, a keyboard, a controller, and Sega Swirl for only about $300.

    2. Will Sega be able to compete with PS2?
    Yes. Don't call them down for the count without seeing the market first. 2 million consoles are already in homes, one of which is one behind me as we speak. Sega expects to have 6 mill in the US by the end of the year. Sega will be able to compete with PS2 with 2nd gen software alone. Sure it won't be better graphically, but I'll bet you that the games will be more polished (being 2nd gen)

    3. Sega is betting the bank
    If Sega fails here, its over. They are betting the company on this promotion, and it better work or people like me will be very mad when the software suddenly stops going to Best Buy. However, will Sega fail? I highly doubt it. With the support of Blockbuster and GTE, Sega will succeed.
  • hrm..... The dreamcast comes with Mail, Usenet and WWW access as well. So it's $528 for 2 years of Internet access and a free kick ass game system.. Not a bad deal if you don't have an ISP. I'd rather see Dreamcast users invading the net than the WebTV minions.
  • the original article is here http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/17480.html the mp3 player will have 64 megs, less than 100 dollars and it will be a vmu peripheral. The 2.0 version of the dreamcast browser will allow the downloading of mp3's (the current one doesn't)
  • "In the original Old English?"

    Old English, it is closer to German then it is to what we consider modern English. Are you referring to a translation or the real, original old English? If the second you are either a lit major or a masochist.

    Nate Custer
  • They've got to be aware that a lot of people were waiting for Playstation II, but that now because of the recalls, there's a perception (correct or not) that it's going to take much longer to come out. A gamer signed into the 'free'-dreamcast-only-I-have-to-spend-ten-more-mon ths-on-this-network plan might be much less likely to go buy a playstation II.

    If they really see their core market as being the kids (12 to 24 year olds), then I'm guessing they're taking the gamble that mostly these things are bought with parents' money and that parents are going to be uninclined to spring for two game consoles when there's already one in the house.

    We'll see if they're right.

  • ...that there's no such thing as a free lunch.
  • Committing yourself to $528 worth of online gaming seems like a waste to me. Play Team Fortress.
  • Being a 21st century subscriber, I will pass on the gift and stick with my PC, a pimped out box that will probably be better than any console in the foreseeable future ;)
  • Why can't I just pay $0 cash for a DC and then sign a bogus name (Bill Gates) to the service contract? Not everyone in the world has a credit card. How would they track you down?

    DCs aren't $0, they're $200. If you want a $200 rebate, you sign up with SegaNet for 2 years. When you do that, they're going to want some sort of credit card, or else money up front.

    But you probably could find a way to lie on the contract and get the $200. You can also pass bad checks, or forge someones name, or use stolen credit card numbers. It's know as fraud, and people go to jail for it everyday.

  • I maybe let out a titter the first time I saw MYASS, but now it's been around the block so many times whenever I see an email/post about MYASS my response is: I KNOW WHAT'S COMING NEXT.
  • What about hire purchase type arrangements? Surely they could offer exactly the same deal, with the requirement that if you want to cancel then you return your DC.
  • I bought a Dreamcast. I had some fun with it. Then I got a GeForce 256 + SB Live!, and my life was ruined thanks to Unreal Tournament. If you do not have a computer, then consoles are ok. If you have a computer, then a console is a waste.
  • >Right now, there's only one game supported, >ChuChu Rocket, which is basically Hungry Hungry >Hippos on speed and is entertaining beyond >belief. (If you haven't seen the infamous CCR >commercial, you must download it now :P)

    Beware the CCR commerical! It's immediately addictive (online crack) and you'll never get the music out of your head once you hear it...

    'neko wa kowai... rocket to sugoi... tsubababa!'


  • They also will have an mp3 player for it... Is there a new law that says hardware devices expand until they can play mp3's?

    Well, I just checked, and the paperclip sitting on my desk cannot yet play mp3s. As it isn't expanding at the moment, I think that it disproves your conjecture by demonstrating the existance of a hardware device which is neither expanding nor capable of playing mp3s.

    Come on, we all know that the only cool devices that size are tiny web servers (finding that old article is left for the reader). However, you should check out that stapler on the other side of your desk. My bet is that it holds at least 32MB of MP3s. Maybe even an infrared port to transfer data if ya got a good one.
  • Hey, what about a car payment plan... buy now, don't pay for a year! ;)

  • I could do this same thing a month ago. At my local Best Buy you can get $200 off anything if you sign up for MSN internet. Now whether MSN or whatever DC is using is better...who knows. It is probably smart of them for doing this, though...but as someone had said before: too little too late.
  • A friend of mine is on that ISP. Its godawful. I mean, what's the point of an online gaming system where the only provider's so slow it makes your modem feel like, as he put it, a 14.4. Great, you can play Q3 online on your console! Crap, your ping is 500! Besides, UT whoops Q3's ass. Q2 forever.
  • Fine, then get Abuse for PC. Deathmatch Contra. Plus, I think Contra 3 was one of the few cases where the sequel actually kept up with the original, and didn't just hide behind the new, spiffy graphics. Contra 3 had the best music ever on the SNES (though F-Zero and FF3 come close seconds).
  • Heheh, speaking of Dolphins, and your nick (if it is indeed related to Lucky Caa, of Uplift) and the Dreamcast, the story for Dreamcast's Ecco is being written by David Brin. Kickass, n'est-ce pas?
  • You think its rare? There are millions of other examples. What about every printer company in the world? You really think that a piece of plastic with cheap water based dye is really worth $40? The printer cartridge market is just aweful with this. Same has been for console games since the daze of atari, buying a system for cheap, subsidized by the expensive games?
  • I implore all of you - DON'T DO THIS!!! Chu Chu Rocket is one of the most addictive games on the planet and is the premiere online game for the Dreamcast.

    If you want to save your sanity - DON'T SIGN UP WITH THIS!
  • There's a project afoot to port OpenBSD to the Dreamcast. There is a working port of NetBSD to the Hitachi SH3; the Hitachi SH4 in the Dreamcast is backwards compatible with the SH3 - so there's promise there.
    --
  • The idea is that Sega will try to make thier bandwidth dedicated to network games. Somehow I feel that it's quite evil to dedicate the entire ISP service to consume bandwidth on games.

    You've got a funny idea of evil... I mean, this is not quite on a par with gassing ethnic minorities, is it?

    Seriously, I'm not sure I understand your point here. Dedicating an ISP to gaming keeps that bandwidth off other, general purpose ISPs: surely that's a Good Thing? The alternative, gaming on ordinary ISPs means that I end up paying over the odds for my ISP connection, because I only surf the Web a little and get an SMTP feed, while other people are pumping Quake III packets day in and day out for the same price.
    --
  • No, but the hardware will run WinCE and Wyse seems to think it's just as good, if not better - so that's a bonus. (Before modding down, turn up/on sarcasam detector and re-read)
  • Here's some pictures of my DC with a blue power LED that I soldered in
    We definately need a "+1 Cool" moderation. This would go well with the blue LEDs in a Nokia 8810 [wanadoo.nl], - which I might do when I move on to an Ericsson T28... (who am I kidding, I'd never harm my 8810)
  • You forgot to subtract the price of a similar ISP service without a hardware purchase or contract. Whatever that is - I have free Internet access through work ;)
  • They'll probably use those magic words oft-read by TV and radio announcers, "This offer void where prohibited."
  • Definitly not worth if you have to pay for the games also, $50 a pop.
    There is the Dream Library, which will allow you to play old genesis/neo geo games on your Dreamcast, at $1 for 2 or 3 days. There were some very enjoyable games in these formats, and if that will be part of the deal, then it isn't *too* painful. Anyway, I'm looking forward to chu chu rocket and hopefully Power Stone 2 against remote players, and perhaps after that how about a networked Crazy Taxi?
    Doubt you'll see Linux ports of any of them.
  • can you make an open source Mario Katz?

    Pope
  • My two favorite quotes from the article:

    "Sega said the attempts by some game developers to make games more difficult using artificial intelligence will not answer the needs of the hardcore gamers, because they will eventually learn all the tricks."

    What happened to the DC commercials that claimed "it is thinking?" That kind of implies superb AI to me. Huh. I guess not. Or maybe they were referring to the marketing department....

    And the other one:

    "Sega also hopes to woo gamers away from PCs, which allow users to play a limited number of games over the Internet."

    As opposed to the unlimited number of games the DC will let you play online? Even if online gaming really takes off for the Dreamcast, I really can't imagine there being more online games for any one console than for the PC, at least not for the lifespan of the Dreamcast. I love it when reporters swallow press releases whole without even bothering to pause and chew on them first.

    Sega does have an interesting approach to overcoming language barriers, though, by allowing players to choose from a menu of common phrases, which are pre-translated for foreign players. On the other hand, that seems like a pretty limited way to build an interactive online community to me.

    I'll think keep my keyboard and PC, and stick to EverQuest and Legend of the Red Dragon for the time being, thank you!

  • This sounds too much like a credit plan for the stupid and those unable to get a loan. Wasn't the old Jaguar catchphrase 'Do the math?'

    Sega Dreamcast: Its thinking, so you don't have to.

  • Does anyone know what the lyrics in the commercial mean? I can't get them out of my head!
  • > When it began connecting, only to spit out repetitive strings of gibberish and then discoonect, I called tech support.

    The software release we were running on our Portmaster-3s (I work for an ISP) around December had some interesting compatibility issues with the Dreamcast...you may want to find out what kind of access concentrators your ISP uses, get a hold of someone in their NOC, and ask them to upgrade their software.
  • The equipment probably costs them $130

    Hmm, I really don't think it even costs them that much. The average cost in the stores is what? $200? I would suspect that the stores bought it for around $140 - $150, the distributor paid around $90 - $100, and that would lead me to believe that the hardware only costs Sega around $50. I could be wrong, if somone else has better info please reply because I'm going off of an educated guess.
    Molog

    So Linus, what are we doing tonight?

  • But I can recall the days when you couldn't buy a telephone. You rented it from the phone company. Now, you own the Dreamcast, Netpliance, whatever, but you pay outrageous fees for the service. Maybe in the future we can get rid of credit cards for purchases. You'll get everything for free, as long as you agree to subscribe to ISP service for two or three years to get it to work. Want a new fridge? No problem, as long as you purchase our service to let your fridge dial up, send us an inventory, so we can ship you replacement eggs & milk and charge your account. Free tv? Sure, as long as you pay $100/month for digital cable & ISP service. You can't install a new toilet unless you first buy the service so it can send vital data to your physician. While we're at it, your toilet-paper roller will sense when you're low & order a new shipment... for a monthly fee, of course. Cars will be free and drive themselves, as long as you pay the monthly fee so it can track your movements, and they can beam advertisements in to force you to watch during the ride. PepsiCo will finally figure out how to burn their logo onto the face of the moon (they actually considered it at one point), and Bill Gates will somehow, in the end, be the guy left holding the bag at the end of every pyramid scheme ever created, thus allowing everyone else to get rich quick, while he descends in the ranks to become just a normal guy. *whew* But I digress, the point of this is that this whole scheme of give away the box, sell the service has got to (hopefully) fail in the end. $22/month doesn't seem like much, but it adds up QUICKLY. Suppose you also want to play Nintendo, Sony, or other games. Then there's the whole issue of people who live in rural areas, where a long-distance call is required to access the service. IMO, this is just another way of taking money from stupid people.
  • Actually, you can get a Dreamcast and also one of these free ISPs...people have done it with NetZero. $200 + $0 $520... Can the Sega ISP also be used on the PC? Then it would seem like a much better deal.
  • This revolutionary decision will usher in a monumental shift in the console gaming paradigm. Sure, all of you Linux users may be used to playing online, but free online console gaming will usher in a whole new era of gaming. Imagine playing Quake III or Descent against a legion of Dreamcast users. Yes, that's right, the DC games will be compatible with their PC counterparts. As a leader in interactive entertainment, I strive to incorporate advanced technologies such as these whenever possible. My FREE masterpiece, Shenmue, allows players to trade egg catcher dolls of popular Sega characters over the Internet. If there's ever a PC port of Shenmue, you'll be able to quickly build on your collection by swapping dolls with existing DC players. Sugoi!

    It's time for all the PC gaming elitists to wake up the smell the roses. Gaming just isn't about PCs that have to be upgraded every month and first-person shooters. It's about universal, human entertainment, the kind you can only find on consoles. Games like Shenmue, Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5. Games that are a Gift to the Children of the 21st Century.

    Yours,

    Yu Suzuki

  • Re:I'm so sorry... (Score:3)

    by troc ( 3606 ) <troc.mac@com> on Monday April 03, 2000 @11:25PM (#1153180) Homepage Journal
    Somehow I feel that it's quite evil to dedicate the entire ISP service to consume bandwidth on games.

    I guess it depends whether someone ports Napster to the Dreamcast :)

    troc

  • In my knowledge, a contract binding consumers to corporations for extended periods of time are illegal in Finland. For example, mobile phone companies cannot create contracts that bind people for two years - legally we have to be able to opt out at any time. This has proven out to be very good for competition, with costs for using mobile phones going down all the time and new interesting services being launched continually.

    I wonder how Sega will arrange contracts like this in here. Looking at how many foreign companies handle situations like this, we probably just won't get the online option here at all. :(

    sulka

  • Not quite so simple. (Score:3)

    by FallLine ( 12211 ) on Tuesday April 04, 2000 @03:27AM (#1153182)
    This is not necessarily such a bad deal for the potential customers. If the customer is a newbie who doesn't already have an internet account, and he wants one that he can be confident will work with his DC with the minimum of hassle, this deal is not so bad. When you assume that the average newbie would consider getting an ISP such as AOL, RCN, or what have you, you're probably talking about 20 dollars a month anyways. Assuming the user does get ISP service

    So to make a fair comparison without taking into consideration the timing of cash flows, it would be approximately 680 (for an outright purcahse + ISP service) compared to 528 (for sega's ISP deal). Furthermore, when you consider the timing of cash flows (which is more realistic), sega's deal is even more favorable. Assuming that DC owner could make do about 1% interest a month on the following cash flows:

    0 --- 1 -- 2 -- 3 -- 4 -- 5 ... 24
    200 - 20 - 20 - 20 - 20 - 20 - 20
    0 ---- 22 - 22 - 22 - 22 - 22 - 22

    This gives us a net present value of about: 625 on the dreamcast had you purchased it and bought service from a third party provider, and 467 had you just bought sega's ISP deal. Of course, changing the ISPs rate and the interest rate will give you different results. None the less, the computation is not exactly clearly against sega's deal. If the user is already subscribed to something like AOL, choosing this deal may, in fact, be beneficial to them...

    The bottom line is that you can't just punch in these numbers and get "the answer" for everyone. The value this deal proposes is highly dependant on where the user is coming from.

  • TJ&E (Score:3)

    by Zoyd ( 13778 ) on Monday April 03, 2000 @08:22PM (#1153183)
    Sega, the company that brought us ToeJam and Earl -- forever the best game ever made, though only in two-player mode.

  • Sounds like desperation to me (Score:3)

    by Kaa ( 21510 ) on Tuesday April 04, 2000 @03:29AM (#1153184) Homepage
    Sega got into the market before PSII or Dolphin, but at the cost of technological inferiority. Given that PSII is highly likely to kick Dreamcast's ass, Sega needs to do something -- anything -- to lock in gamers before the PSII is released in the US.

    I doubt the plan is good anyway. A lot of people will get the Dreamcast and then get PSII when it comes out. Then they'll be left with $22/mo bills for a year and a half for the priviledge of connecting their unused hardware. That ought to generate a lot of bad feelings towards Sega.

    Of course, as Sega is exiting the console business, it's not like it would care a great deal...
    Kaa

  • Free is not enough! (Score:3)

    by laborit ( 90558 ) on Monday April 03, 2000 @08:54PM (#1153185) Homepage
    My father got a Dreamcast last Channukah. We spent many hours trying to get that box 'o tripe connected to the internet through our local ISP, something they repeatedly trumpeted as perfectly possible. When it began connecting, only to spit out repetitive strings of gibberish and then discoonect, I called tech support. The first time, they plead ignorance. On my second try...

    Laborit: ...and then it disconnects.
    TS: Yeah, it does that sometimes.
    Laborit: So what should I do about it?
    TS: Just keep trying to connect.
    Laborit: I've tried ten times in a row without success.
    TS (perky): Yes, you said that. Just keep trying!
    Laborit: This can't be right.
    TS: Yes, we have a model right here in the office. It does the same thing.
    Laborit: You're telling me I should be satisfied with a product that only works as advertised one time in eleven, at most?
    TS (perkier): Just keep trying!
    Laborit: I find this unacceptable.
    TS (threateningly perky): Keep trying!
    Laborit: Are you saying...
    TS:PERK PERK PERK!!!

    My reaction to the offer: maybe if they paid me twenty-two bucks a month...
    ****

  • Comment removed (Score:3)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday April 03, 2000 @08:15PM (#1153186)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Why a PC gamer might sign up.... (Score:3)

    by Kalren ( 152196 ) on Monday April 03, 2000 @10:04PM (#1153187)
    Well, first off, it should be made clear that SegaNet(I believe this is the name of the service) allows PC and Mac users to sign up and use the service as well as Dreamcast Users.

    If someone with a PC signs up for the $22/month for 2 years contract($528) they will receive a $200 rebate which, Sega hope, can be put towards a Dreamcast. Or if you prefer, you can pocket it and essentially pay $14/month.

    Why should a PC gamer sign up? According to MCV.COM [http], Sega has been working with PowerPlay to build the network with better access and lower latencies for games.

    SegaNet will have more than 250 servers covering every major metro area in the US, giving everyone in the country access to the network with little latency.
    There are other feature which mainly apply towards DC users such as certain sports titles along with other games featuring online play. As well, for DC owners, Sega is releasing a MP3 player(similar in d esignto Sega's VMU Memory card) with 64MB of ram for less then $100. Of course it's useable only with a DC...

    While Sega's offering may not be something PC players will take notice of, it's a strong shot off the bow for Sega against their competitors.

    -Dean

  • Running linux? (Score:3)

    by wholesomegrits ( 155981 ) <wholesomegrits&mchsi,com> on Monday April 03, 2000 @08:11PM (#1153188)
    Any chance, after the addition of a ribbon cable, it will run linux? ;) That seems to be the trend lately.

  • sega dc thoughts from sega dc owner ... (Score:4)

    by Naum ( 166466 ) on Monday April 03, 2000 @08:21PM (#1153189) Homepage Journal

    ... yeah i have a sega saturn and a sega genesis (the last "real" winner they had though i didn't fall for the equally ill-fated 32x and cd products ...) ... i swore i would never buy a sega product ever again after the saturn debacle ... but then again, i don't buy sony products either as every single sony item i have ever bought broke within a year (though the 5th walkman i bought a little over a year ago is still working ... hmm ...) ...

    anyway, i'm not sure if this manuever by them is too little too late ... they needed to have the online gaming up at christmas, not this fall sometime which translates into winter or maybe early next year ... there is big market for those gamers who while quite adept at video games are real clueless about PC setup and plus the cost of putting together a high end gaming setup ...

    the internet access they provide works - and you don't need them as a provider - i hooked it up to freei.net - so i can surf on the tv for free though it is an exercise in primitivity (heh, that ain't a word ...) ... most of the time you can only see a fraction of the page on the tv screen and i don't have a keyboard so typing urls in is a pain - then, add that fact to the fact that you need to store the bookmarks on a memory cartridge that plugs in to one of the controllers ... even with a keyboard i can't imagine smooth surfing ...

    but like i said, they missed the boat - though the games i have purchased are very good, it would be cool to play online and the ease (or perceived ease) of setting up and getting on would be a boon for many gamers - i.e. no worry about machine differences, sound cards, 3d cards, etc ... just log in and play ... but the success of these gaming consoles is not predicated on the power of the box, but the quantity and quality of the games ... probally quantity being more important ... (witness the sony playstation success ...)

    anyway, i wish it would work for sega, but i don't see it happening ... sega will end up being sony's bitch just like ms ate up netscape ... l8

  • Dreamcast tidbits (Score:5)

    by drwiii ( 434 ) on Monday April 03, 2000 @09:06PM (#1153190) Homepage
    For anyone who's interested, here's a quick screenshot tour of Sega's included Web Browser [min.net]. (Note: They have released a much faster and less buggy upgrade to the browser, look on DC Mag disc, March 2000. If you want a free 1.1 browser GD shipped to you, go here [sega.com].)

    I really hope Sega can pull this off. Regardless of what's coming around the bend, Dreamcast is a great system.

    It's fun to take apart too. Here's some pictures [min.net] of my DC with a blue power LED that I soldered in to commemerate its compatibility with a Microsoft product (WinCE).

  • DC netplay impressions from a Sega fan (Score:5)

    by Green Monkey ( 152750 ) on Monday April 03, 2000 @09:08PM (#1153191)
    I've spent a fair amount of time with the Dreamcast's Internet play features. In general, things are looking pretty good -- lag is an issue, but that's something that will probably get ironed out over time. A DC cable modem is also going to be released later this year, so you lucky Low Ping Bastards can join in on the fun ;). (And, once again, you don't need a separate ISP for the Dreamcast... you can just use your existing phone line / broadband access.)

    One of the best features of Dreamcast online gaming is the way you communicate. ChuChu Rocket, and other future games, give you a standardized set of phrases and messages you can activate from the controller. The cool part is that these messages appear to other users in whatever language they're playing in. In other words, if I'm playing against someone in Japan, I can select English phrases on my screen and they'll appear in Japanese to the person on the other end. CCR just offers a few taunts and gripes, but the multiplayer online RPG Phantasy Star Online (coming out worldwide this summer) lets you construct entire translatable sentences out of stock words.

    The biggest problem right now, of course, is game selection ;). Right now, there's only one game supported, ChuChu Rocket, which is basically Hungry Hungry Hippos on speed and is entertaining beyond belief. (If you haven't seen the infamous CCR commercial [thegia.com], you must download it now :P). Unfortunately, it gets old pretty quickly, and even in the month since it came out it's losing its appeal. There's a slew of online games coming up, though, including big names like Quake III and Half-Life.

    As a diehard console gamer, I'm psyched that we're finally getting all the online features that our PC counterparts have been enjoying for years ;). If you've been playing Quake for years, DC netplay is nothing special, but IMO it's a big step in the right direction for console gaming.

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