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Games Entertainment

Sega Looks At Licensing Dreamcast 99

Posted by Hemos from the they-should-anyway dept.
coj writes: "In a move that seems like a response to Sony's recent announcements, ZDNet is reporting that Sega is in talks to license the Dreamcast technology to other companies. Maybe the U.S. consumer is finally ready for an all-in-one set-top box ... or maybe the console manufacturers are making the same mistakes 3D0 did. Should be interesting."
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Sega Looks At Licensing Dreamcast More

Sega Looks At Licensing Dreamcast

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  • They have sold over 2.5 million (acctually I think 3 million) in the US so far. And thats before the awesome Sega.com deal kicks in.
  • Umm, I don't know how much you checked your sources, but have you ever heard of a game called Tomb Raider? Despite all of the flak the series has picked up, Tomb Raider still had amazingly detailed 3d graphics for the time. Much more so than FF7. On the playstation. Tomb Raider was released in 1996. FF7 was released in 1997. Seing as how we are talking about 3d graphics (not the beautiful 2d backgrounds of FF7) and the models which were used the most in-game (not the combat models-I didn't fight during the entire duration of the 80+ hrs which I played-and besides, I would've been happy in a combat with the low polygon guys...now back to my sentence which I started a really long time ago...)I would say that there were many things around even on the PC's and Playstations that compared to the level of FF7's graphics.
    - - - - - - - - -
  • Have you even seen any PS2 games? If you have then you would certainly know that the Dreamcast indeed CAN compete with it. They are already destroying it when it comes to gameplay, but when Shenmue comes out this fall it will be destroying it graphically. If you havent seen Shenmue on a TV then you dont know how awesome the Dreamcast can be.
  • I am impressed with the way that Sega has been playing things lately. I think this shows that they are continuing to think ahead

    If, by "think ahead", you mean "copy Sony" then you're right. First Sega "compete" with Sony by offering Playstation ONE emulation, now this.

    If Sony's president announced a moon-shot I'm sure Sega would follow suit (and the analogy I'm drawing deserves some thought ...)

  • Adding Dreamcast capabilities to a PC seems attractive to me.
  • Someone before mentioned that this would allow the Dreamcast to have diffrent configurations (somewhat like 3DO but not). isn't Dolphin also going to be this way??? Nintendo is parterning with (forgive the spelling) Mashuita, Panasonic's parent company, to make the DVD units and Mashuita under hte Panasonic name will be allowed to make Dolphin compatable DVD units, i.e. the Nintendo Dolphin system won't have DVD movie capabiliies built in, but for another $100, the Panasonic Dolphin compatable player will (think nuon only good).

    I just want to point this out, For what I know nintendo has already licensed Dolphin to Mashuita, making it's deals way before Sony. (oh and supposedly the Nintendo Dolphin will debut for $99 and the PSX2 wasn't orignally supposed to have built in DVD movie playback, look at the problems because of region codes with it)

  • Why on EARTH would somebody want to license Dreamcast's obsolete technology? PSX2 I can understand... Sony's tech has a good 2 or three years of consumer life, and even 6 or 7 months of life in the PC peripheral market, but Sega's only "tech" is the ancient PowerVR graphics and the crappy GD-ROM (a 1GB CD-ROM bastardization)

    Anybody here actually have the Neon 250? I thought not - that graphics tech is surpassed by the Kyro, which still aims only to beat the previous generation of video chipsets (GeForce 1/Voodoo3). Sony's tech is at least a FULL generation beyond Sega's, so given competitive pricing for the chips, who do you think will get the business?

    Sega has lost. Jaleco won't even publish games that have been written for the DC, because of the poor market. Meanwhile, the PSX2 sold in record numbers, and is expected to do the same here in the US - while Sega's execs fabricate the numbers to make themselves look good to the stockholders (they falsely inflated their sales figures by about double).

    Nobody wants to license DC technology. It's capable of some very spiffy graphics, but is already outdated and hampered by scads of terrible games that look pretty but play ugly. They should stick to the plan to release Bleem! so they can at least get a few decent titles to play on the system.
  • Umm... talk to someone who was there.

    The mistake 3DO made was not in licensing the hardware design, but in trying to license out both the hardware design and the license to publish software that would run on the hardware.

    The hardware manufacturers had no incentive to sell the hardware as a "loss leader" because they got no cut from the software licensing business. The software developers had no incentive to develop software for the platform because the retail price of the hardware was so damned high.

    This is what you call an indefensible market position. There was no profit for anyone to use the 3DO hardware and software licenses. No one was buying anything.

    The 3DO Company didn't start developing titles for the system until the writing was already on the wall. For awhile, there was the potential of them pulling out of the spiral-- they had mostly fixed their business model, and they had a second generation hardware design that might have been able to hold up against the Playstation 2 and the Dreamcast and various PC gaming solutions, but they never managed to complete a deal that put boxes on store shelves.

    So, et voila, The 3DO Company is Electronic Arts The Sequel.
  • The new web browser for the DC _CAN_ play MP3's, and their releasing a traditional MP3 player (think Rio) that hooks up through the VMU port. There is also a DVD player coming out.
  • With both techs licensed maybe someone will make a card for PC that will let you play DC and PS2 games on your PC. That would be really cool, my monitor has a much better resolution than my TV. Wishfull thinking.

  • Everybody thinks that Sony was the first to say, Hey, we might license out tech! Actually, this first came up from Nintendo as they were building the prototype specs for "Dolphin" way back when. They have out sourced most of the hardware (like MS's X-Box, maybe?)... IBM is doing the 0.18 micron main CPU... ArtX is returning to do the Graphics and Sound Processors... and Matsushita or Mitsubishi, or someone, is licensing the DVD hardware. This hardware company, though, was also interested in licensing from Nintendo the proprietary format of the disks in the hopes of putting the capabilities of playing Nintendo games on their DVD players. Nintendo thought it was an interesting idea, but I am not sure if they decided either way...

    On a side note, I do think it would be great to have one console capable of playing Nintendo, X-Box, Dreamcast, and PS2 games, and it seems that all of the companies are interested/able to license their tech!... but I don't think it will happen due to incompatibilities in the architecture, esp. when it comes to 3D processing. It may happen, and I hope it does... but then you have to have at least to on chip OSes... Windows 2000 GCE (Game Console Edition for lack of a better name) for Dreamcast/X-Box and then an Emulating system for Dolphin/PS2.

    It's still highly possible, it's just improbable, though, that a company would want to take on all the effort and licensing fees to try, and still make it for a decent price.

    Basically, I think the console systems are becoming more and more like Cheap PCs with great hardware, and I think that soon Consoles and PCs will start merging into hybrid systems... and perhaps, the easiest way to get all the consoles into one box, would be to do it as a PC (with some extra hardware)...



    WorldMaker
  • Convergence is one buzzword that seems to always hang around, but never deliver. Convergence for convergence's sake isn't necessarily what the market wants. Its kinda cool from an engineering standpoint, but Joe Average needs to understand a product before he will buy it. He understands a VCR. It plays videos, and alllows him to record his own. Does he understand a Tivo/Dreamcast/Email/can opener?

    (Granted, console makers can get him to buy one with a loss-leader price point, but that's not really my point)

    This is what I like about Nintendo's next-gen strategy. They're making a games machine. To play games on. Period.

    The panacea, to my mind, is multiple dedicated devices that can spontaneously network. (think Jini, or Universal Plug'n'P[lr]ay.. shudder). Once these standards mature, the all-in-wunderbox might seem a little "early nineties".

    Zaugg.

  • "early nineties" --> "early naughties"

    zaugg

  • im so sick and tired of hearing this crap about "oh, it looked good, but i'll wait till next year" come on people. DC has been out for a long time, of course something that comes out a year and a half later (how do you spell p-u-s-h-b-a-c-k?) is going to be superior as far as tech. thats why sega had the foresight to make the DC upgradable. cause ya know, i WOULD go get a 1ghz chip for my computer, but next year they will have a 2Ghz chip, then im going to bitch that i could get that, or wait another year for a 3ghz chip. you all seem to have forgotten what it was like to be playing your NES, and going over to a friend's house that had a Genesis. at that time you didnt say "im gonna wait 2 1/2 years for a super nintendo" cause you werent a bunch of spoiled goddamn whiners. shut up and play.
  • People tend to refer to IBM compatibles as PC's these days. Whether you like it or not you either have a Mac or a PC [in laymens terms].
  • Actually, this is a valid and well-argued point. Besides the idiotic typeface it deserves to be moderated up.
  • see what I mean? All of it is the same old crap- the only exception is 'Halo' produced by Bungie Software, currently being acquired by M$ _as we speak_. That means x-box and PC only, maybe mac if mac owners are lucky.

    btw, FFXI as MMRPG? the only thing the FF series has gong for it are the cut scenes. Now I get to spend 5 hours a night retrieving my corpse, interspersed with 20 minute cutscenes!!! arrrgghhh!@!!#@!%#@%



    :)Fudboy
  • Actually he is right....the term "PC" is actually a registered trademark of IBM to describe their computers. However the whole term "IBM-compatible" is pretty much obsolete these days....IBM is now just another clone maker. It'd probably be more accurate to call them "Intel architecture" or something....but with AMD's growing popularity, that probably doesn't work either. So I dunno...
  • I did not know that...learn something new everyday
  • All this talk of the console makers venturing into the realm of PC's and net-ready appliances raises the question to me, what is it about the console market that makes it so different from the PC market?

    Console games are developed with hardware limitations in mind - PC games are just made with arbitrary hardware requirements (RAM needed, minimum playable network ping, etc.). Because of this, you seldom experience problems with your console games (unless your dog has pissed on your PSX more than once) but the latest PC games are infuriatingly unstable (fixable, but who wants to play a game that badly to go thru the trouble?)

    In light of this, it makes sense that only one console dominate the market at the time; since all their games are incompatible to each other (but you can emulate all systems on your PC -- haha!) it provides a wide selection of games when one console is in dominance and you have that console.

    Now, if someone wants to fix this and have many console makers, then there have to be standards created for making games, like PC's. Once that happens, then what's the point of having consoles? The only alternative IMHO is for Sony to allow OEM's to put together their own, competitive Playstation(2)'s -- there could be more or less expansion slots, different packaging, system tweaks, etc. That is what made VHS destroy Betamax, which is too bad because betamax was a pretty decent format.

  • Besides, the Dreamcast has nothing on the Playstation hardware. 20 million polygons vs. 2 million

    I love how people just recycle the same Sony hype over and over again. The only thing I've heard from developers is they aren't getting anywhere near those numbers on the PS2. As a matter of fact, the PS2 games that have been released so far don't outshine the Dreamcast games by the 10 to 1 margin that you suggest exists. Why don't you judge the systems by the games instead of looking at specs like some obsessed number cruncher. When it comes down to it, the games are all that matter, not the eye candy. I mean they're game machines, not paintings.
  • Strangely enough, one of their titles is available for Linux:

    Heroes of Might and Magic III

    http://www.lokigames.com/products/heroes 3/ [lokigames.com]

    I'm not exactly a big fan of turn-based fantasy strategy, but the Heroes series is generally acknowledged as the best of the breed, and having the latest in the series available on the Linux platform is a Good Thing in and of itself.
  • Please excuse the ignorance ... but what was their major malfunction?

    Early on, Wired magazine plugged them as the Next Big Thing. That's a sure-fire technology killer.


    --------------------
    WWW.TETSUJIN.ORG [tetsujin.org]

  • Same mistake as 3DO? (Score:3)

    by oozer ( 132881 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2000 @01:14PM (#1004443)
    I don't think Sony and Sega are making the same mistake as 3DO. The difference is that 3DO started off with the intention of licencing hardware manufacture and sales to multiple companies - their whole business model relied on these other companies to make their hardware design and sell it in quantity.

    Sony and Sega by contrast have already made a success of their respective consoles to the extent that the software developers are happy enough to support the platform. Any extra licencing they can pull in now is icing on the cake.
    --

  • No one will make a Dreamcast clone, but it is an added feature to add to DVD players. Think about it. PSX2 is sonys all in one box. Stand alone DVD players won't have a chance in the consumer market if PSX2 can play DVDs too. Now a DVD manufacturer could compete with the PSX2 and gives the already aging Dreamcast a bit of fresh air.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • what are you using to sort this data? I would like to compile all of the troll postings and write a book.



    :)Fudboy
  • This sure seems like another big nail in the coffin of Nuon - or is it? Anyone have the scoop on these guys?
  • All of these games have another name, and it's Street Fighter. and not a one of them is very 'creative'. just the same old slop made pretty. EVERYONE will be bored with street fighter by xmas 2001 if they aren't already.

    This is not at all personal, all this is IMHO.



    :)Fudboy
  • The PS2 may have 40-50 PS2 titles available, but it will also have hundreds of PS1 games that will be playable. From what I understand, the PS2 even improves the graphical quality of PS1 games.

    Sony is going to have people buying PS2s just to see how good Tekken 1 looks.
  • Yea I have a 3DO. I got it for $25 at Babbage's. It made a great CD player in the bedroom. One of the things they promised with that standard was compatability with CDVideo discs. CDV was supposed to be the digital video format of the future. It could deliver a hour or more of MPEG-1 video on a standard CD. The only problem was you had to buy a expensive MPEG-1 Decoder cartridge to do it. It actually sold well in Europe but has faded into obscurity.

    Sony was on the ball when they picked DVD compatability as a included feature. I put off buying a player until it comes out. Then I can unhook the 25ft cable from the Video-out port of my PC.

    Sega has also announced a set-top version of the dreamcast that play DVDs. I think they are getting tired of losing money to Sony. If somebody sold a graphics card for PCs that was based on the next version of the Sony Graphics Synth that has 16-32mb ram built into the chip it would blow away anything on the market today.

    -Q: And your point would be ?
    -A: Just beyond your reach.
  • I still don't understand what it is that's so special about the Dreamcast that would make a company pay licensing fees for the thing instead of developing a similar solution in-house.

    The DC is more or less a Hitachi SH4 CPU [hitachi.com] along with a PowerVR [powervr.com] graphics chip, a sound chip, a goofy CD drive (the "GD-ROM"), and a TV-out. Just about all the components in a Dreamcast, or their near equivalents, are not made by Sega.

    What is it that comprises "Dreamcast technology" other than parts built by companies other than Sega? Why is this anything other than yet another "Internet Appliance" venture? I understand why Sega would want to get deeper into that market, I just don't understand what is so special about "Dreamcast technology."

  • Sega might be able to hit it big pushing Dreamcast as a set top box. The DC already has two web browsers out for it (PlanetWeb and DreamKey, I'm posting this from the PlanetWeb browser) and is an extremely attractive offer for someone looking to do things on the net for cheap.

    The PlanetWeb browser also has internet-standard mail and IRC clients built in. I have a few screenshots [min.net] of the PlanetWeb browser up (those are from version 1.0, they're up to 2.0 now.)

    As an aside, I'm posting this from my Dreamcast because my Windows 2000 box decided to lock me out with a BSOD-on-boot. Thanks Bill. Really.

    Anyway, one thing that's a must if you're using your Dreamcast on the Internet is the sega keyboard. It's a standard keyboard with the three M$ keys replaced with S1 through 3, but it has a cable capable of hooking to one of the Dreamcast's maple bus connectors.



  • When the PSX hits the market, it's already going to have the killer app on the shelves.... Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2. The first game has sold extraordinarily well and has a lot of anticipation built up around the release of the sequel. I am betting that the PS2 version of the sequel is going to be absolutely astonishing. And I don't think it's going to be released on Dreamcast



    Seth
  • > I am impressed with the way that Sega has been playing things lately. I think this shows that
    > they are continuing to think ahead

    If, by "think ahead", you mean "copy Sony" then you're right. First Sega
    "compete" with Sony by offering Playstation ONE emulation, now this.

    Nonsense. The PSX emulation is being offered by Bleem. For one system to run the hardware of another is not at all illegal (It was upheld in court for ColecoVision), but I doubt that Sega had any desire to go through the legal squabble that Sony would have brought if they tried to make the Dreamcast compatable with the PSX.

    Perhaps soon we'll get a Saturn emulator for the Dreamcast, or even the PSX2. Would you complain with the same enthusiasm then? Or are you just sticking up for your favorite brand name?
  • Bollocks.

    Does he understand a Tivo/Dreamcast/Email/can opener?

    Do you understand how a clutch works? Do you need too? The "average" Joe Bloggs from Struggle St. wants one box to do everything - for the simple fact it'll be cheaper that way. Integration is the wave of the "naughties", as you so delicately put it.

    tsf.

  • name 3 games that Squaresoft makes that I want. You can't. I don't like console RPG games. I think EA makes more compelling games.
  • The Dreamcast, via Bleemcast, will play PSX games also, and get this. Because of the Dreamcast's anti-aliasing capabilities, the games will look better on the Dreamcast than they will on the PS2. They've already demoed a couple of games proving that point.
  • I don't know about the PS2, but with an add-on SVGA adaptor you can hook the Dreamcast up to your favorite monitor and get stunning visuals.
  • Has anyone here ever accually talked to a Sega employee, besides one that is paid to talk to the public? I have spoken to sega employees who didn't know Sonic the Hedghog was a Sega trademark. Sure they have alot of talented people, but they remind me of the Island of Laputa.
  • When I first heard about the Nuon I was impressed and hoped for the best for the dudes. Now you can hardly find any info on them. From's what I understood the Nuon was sort of like a graphical DSP which could perform a set number of functions and calculations and was ONLY a rendering chip. I just don't think the people behind Nuon got enough people interested in the thing.
  • And a backpack full of potatos to power it!
  • The DC and PS2 sell at a loss only in the very early stages of production while the companies are still paying off development and implimentation overhead (which ususally if the company is efficient with their outsourcing lasts about a year) with the rest of the life of the console being cake. Since the DC has been out long enough that they are going back into the black on it and moving towards higher profit margins due to licensing (as you pointed out) it makes sense for them to license. Every DC sold now is paying for itself with a little bit of profit but it hasn't saturated the market (I don't own one yet). Now if Phillips and Panasonic start churning out DC compatible DVD players or set-top web boxes they are selling a product with an entrenched production base so they have extremely low development costs and they have a new product to put in many people's living rooms. It's like back in the day when people bought PCs that said "IBM compatible". It's good for the makers of the chip and license owners because they get fees from the licensees but then the licensees push units out the department store's door because it has the licensed logo and software compatibility.
  • no need to belabor the point. I understand that some people must stick to specifics. My point is more along the lines of 'all upcoming titles are merely refinements of previous game technique excepting Halo, which looks to be in a questionable position as regards to its release on the platform known as the playstation 2 (two).' Is that more satisfying?

    You also seem to miss the point about the FF series sa an MMRPG, a funny I make in response to the typical newbie experience with MMRPG's, which often amounts to little more than corpse retrieval.

    Cutscenes are indeed referred to as FMV in certain circles it's true. meanwhile, they almost always suck ass. They distract from the actual experience of playing games, ie, manipulating elements of a system acording to certain rules, with some goal in mind. FMV is too passive, and in my gamerly opinion should be avoided at all cost.

    I will try to be less abrupt with my posts if how bout you just relax a little.



    :)Fudboy
  • "hopes to plant core PlayStation2 technologies into a host of Internet-capable devices"

    Cool.
    So now I'll be able to challege my internet ready freezer to a networked game of Quake while playing the toaster?

    Things are getting wierder all the time.
    I wonder how far we're going to take the "network capable devices" too.
    Aren't there some thing that don't need a 100mb uplink to the net?

    Malk-a-mite

  • Saturn emulator for PSX2? So I can play all those great Saturn games? Yes, please! ;) Who needs Tekken Tag Tournament when you've got ... er ... oh, remind me of the name of a Saturn game, will you? ;)

    Only one of us is sticking up for his favorite brand name. I'm merely commenting on Sega's lack of spark, which is quite apparent. This announcement from Sega is quite obviously a knee-jerk reaction to last week's Sony announcement.

  • I am impressed with the way that Sega has been playing things lately. I think this shows that they are continuing to think ahead, and not just get into the nintendo/monopolist mindset. In some ways, this is a reflection of the power of open standards.

    I think one of the reasons the Dreamcast is doing so well (in the US and Europe, at least) is because it is so (relatively) easy to program for. By licensing the technology, Sega will increase the incentive of developers to write to their standard.

    I wish them luck. Now I have to get back to playing "Space Channel 5" and "Gauntlet Legends".

  • Anyone actually know how many they sold? Certainly, it's not enough, and consdering that this is Sega's last chance, they're going to need to do something better than try and sell it all on again.

    --Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
  • Dreamcast is not dead. I am an owner of a Dreamcast and I think its a reat system. Sure PS2 will probably blow it away, but I'm in college and won't be able to afford a PS2 when it comes out. All the games I need will be supported by Dreamcast. And with bleemcast coming out I will be able to throw away my original playstation, since I'll be able to play most of its games on my dreamcast. Get real, Dreamcast is long from dead.

  • 3DO? (Score:2)

    by bemis ( 29806 )
    Please excuse the ignorance ... but what was their major malfunction? All I recall about them was that they made a pretty cool set-top-box that was a little too pricey for my wallet at the time (i think i was like 17 or something -- if that)

    -I'm not an alcoholic -- they go to meetings! I'm a DRUNK!-
  • Somehow, this reeks of Sega playing catch-up with Sony with no particular plan in mind. I've long wondered if there was really room for three in the console market. It's always really been two, with an occasional third ousting one of the two, until the entrance of Sony and the failure of Sega to, quite, leave. I see it working for Sony. They're good at this sort of thing... and PS equipped hotel TV boxes with pay-per-view (this was done with the SNES, IIRC) might be one payoff... but Sega has never shown that kind of market savvy.
  • I think it's a bit late in the game. After all, Sony already said they were going to this, right? I believe there's a good Ars article [arstechnica.com]on it.

    Besides, the Dreamcast has nothing on the Playstation hardware. 20 million polygons vs. 2 million, I believe the comparison is. Sure, the EE is hard to write for, mostly because it's such a radically different way to do 3D graphics -- but because it's such a killer design (at least the hype has said so) and the current status of the Playstation name being so high, I think people would rather develop stuff with the Emotion Engine.

  • Don't Count Sega Out! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    While many in the technology circles are already counting Sega dead on the 128-bit game platform, many knowledgeable folks in the industry are just waiting for the dust to settle. In Japan, video game sales on all platforms have been depressed. While Sega has been disappointed with sales of Dreamcast hardware in Japan, in the US and Europe sales have far exceeded expectations.

    The main driving force behind Dreamcast sales in Japan has been the integrated DVD features of the Playstation 2. DVD never took off in Japan where more folks owned LaserDisc players (which never took off in the U.S.) Japanese consumers are always trying to economize on the amount of "space" an appliance takes up on their shelf. The combo of a DVD and Game system is attractive, therefore, in the Japanese market. In the U.S. market, however, where most "target" homes already own DVD players, this extra feature is not necessarily a selling point.

    So what it comes down to is the games that each platform offers. In this area the launch titles for the Playstation 2 are generally unexciting. Contrast this with the over 200 titles Dreamcast will have by the end of the year, and the phenomenal graphical improvements that the Bleem software for Dreamcast will offer, and the Dreamcast becomes even more enticing. What online-gaming and internet support? Dreamcast has it. And with the current $50 rebate, reduced prices on popular titles, and a free Dreamcast or $200 rebate for seganet users, Sega is more than competititve, they are positioned to win.

  • Their malfunction was selling the console for what it actually cost to manufacture. That box was rather pricey, although it /did/ do some fantastic things, for its time.

    Later, Sega's Saturn and Sony's Playstation would manage to make high-end hardware more appealing to consumers by selling the console at a loss, and making their money of the licensing of software. The modern equivalent of give away the razor, sell the blades. Sony managed to outlicense Sega, using its entertainment industry clout to muscle past them. Game developers also complained loud and often about the Saturn's APIs being as ugly as they come.

    Atari Jaguar tried this, too, but Atari tried to keep all their game development in house, which caused what was a really stellar piece of hardware in the closet, because it had no software to go with it. I think the first game that I had to actually take breaks playing, because it scared the hell out of me, was the Jaguar's Aliens Vs. Predator.

  • There is such a system. It's called a PC.

    Until the growth of graphics and processor technology slows way down, I don't think an open-standards console will ever exist. As soon as you created your standard, someone would come up with a new piece of hardware that was better.

    In addition, who would build such a thing? Sony/Sega/Nintendo lose money, in general, on their hardware. They make it up by licensing the software.

  • When I was in Florida for Spring Break the hotel I stayed in had a playstation controller coming out of the television. Their onscreen menu system had a handful of games that you could play. I didn't do too much tinkering, but there was an odd box on the back of the television that was called something like remotetvsystem - that had a wire running into the wall.

    Anyone ever flown Virgin? I know when I flew Virgin from Los Angeles to London the tv that popped out of my arm rest was controlled by an old style Nintendo controller (the one with 2 red buttons, A & B). This rig had headphones, and what was most certainly an old Turbografx! unless someone ported Bonks Adventures to another system...

    Sony knows were they're going.
    Joseph Elwell.

  • If I wanted a machine with the power of a P233MMX with a PowerVR, I'd put one together. What's the big deal here? The Playstation 2 hardware is special and impressive, the DC hardware doesn't do anything that isn't already handled (better!) by other hardware.

    The only potential benefit here would be if they made it super cheap. Then we'd see all kinds of cable boxes and such with neeto interfaces, and perhaps it could lower development time for such embedded systems by minimizing the amount of hardware that has to be developed for any new solution; You don't have to do much work to handle the UI, just put together the actual guts of the device and interface it to the DC system.

    If they're clever, they'll just come up with a standard DC subsystem with a basic control interface, a socket for a big fat ROM, and another socket for some flash. They just need to take a tip from the Amiga Genlock and be able to overlay DC video over whatever video signal is input to it, so that you can use it meaningfully for an interface to DVD players, Cable Boxes, and the like. I have to admit that it would be really slick to have something like that that would be an interface to my VCR where the control widgets showed up in 3d and stuff, but then again, it's not particularly useful.

    I'm far more jazzed about the prospect of having cheap systems based on the Emotion Engine and with the PS2 graphics processor. Then again, that's what the PS2 is; Maybe someone should just port linux (or something else, but linux is keen) to the PS2. It's going to have a firewire hard disk, right? You should be able to (with sufficient application of intelligence, time, and potentially money) put a kernel on a CD-ROM (Can the PS2 read CD-RW?) and put the rest of the OS on the firewire hard disk, or on some other firewire peripheral, such as a JAZ or ZIP disk. Then again, there's always Zip USB...

  • It's kind of whacked that that is the image, because the reality is the exact opposite. The PS2 has lackluster games and a serious problem with anti-aliasing. Dreamcast has a lot of crap titles, which has always been a problem with Sega, but it has quite a few spectacular ones as well. Games like Shen Mue, Crazy Taxi, and Resident Evil:Code Veronica are gorgeous and have no equivilant on the PS2. Maybe by the time it's released in America, the PS2 will have some decent games, but for now, the Japanese consumers have it right: PS2 is a good DVD player and not much else. And Sega has a great product that is getting ignored.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I agree with this completely. A game doesn't necessarily need a huge number of polygons to be good, and let's face it; consoles sell based on the games they offer.

    For example, I ended up buying a playstation mainly for FF7. As anyone can attest to, the 3d models in the game were not pretty. In fact, they were so low polygon as to be comical. Despite all this, I found FF7 to br a severely addicting game (as is usually the case with games released by Square) maily due to storyline and great gameplay. Games are not based on polygons. In fact, they aren't even based on graphics. I can still get entertainment out of a good solid MUD or text-adventure. As long as the gameplay itself is addicting/entertaining, graphics are merely a tool to better convey the game world to the user.

    Graphics are nice, and visually amazing at points, but who really loves a game with no gameplay (Myst anyone?). Just because one console has more graphical processing power than the other doesn't mean that the console and its games in their entirety are better. It truly is the gameplay quality of the released games that raise one platform above the other.
    - - - - - - - - -
  • It does the whole Tivo thing.

    Microsoft and DirecTV as well as Tivo and DirecTV are releasing combined units this year, toward Christmas.

    I want a digital video recorder, but i don't want to pay $299 for a computer to hook up to the TV that does nothing else. Maybe someone will come out with software for the PSX2 and Dreamcast to handle digital video recording (with their already-announced hard drives), but I see nothing announced so far. That would be the ideal situation for me and I'm sure a lot of other consumers as well.
  • There is no company that makes a series of computers called PCs, the PC is a class of computers. Macs are as much PCs as Gateways or IBMs.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I'm starting to get worried about console gaming in the future. I'm worried because it sounds like if you have a Sega console and Sony console they will fight to the death like Kirk and Spock for the Triskellions. I bought an N64 off eBay because it came with the one game I was really wanting to play, Legend of Zelda. Now that the semester is over and my finals have been taken it looks like I'm going to put a little more effort into rescuing princess Zelda. Why in the world would I buy an N64 when I have a PC that is capable of playing a plethora of games? I can only get Ocarina of Time on the N64. That my troll feeding friends is the reason video game consoles exist, they exist to play video games. If said consoles were phalic representations like big trucks and boats we would buy them merely to show people that we had the biggest and best equipment around. Who cares if the PS2 can churn out 18 million more triangles than the Dreamcast, I may really love playing Crazy Taxi (I spent an hour playing it at Gameworks today). I'll most likely end up buying a PS2 after exmas when the prices drop by 75$ so I'll be ready to play Final Fantasy 10 and 11. Final Fantasy 7 was pretty much the sole purpose of my PSX until I got Gran Tourismo. After I get a system I end up buying and renting lots of games for them because I enjoy playing them but there's nothing preventing me from owning more than one console.
    At this point I think it is a really good idea for Sega to license out the DC, they're now breaking even on console sales and are rolling out seganet which will makes them cash for each person who's using it. Breaking even on console sales means they can let someone else build hardware and they don't lose money. Now if these new hardware manufacturers get their customers hooked up to seganet, Sega makes money off of this and the hardware manufacturer saves money on their new product because it had almost zero development and deployment cost. They're merely putting different styled cases on Dreamcast. Saying that seganet takes off and gets some broadband support added to it, I can see seganet getting to be like a WebTV type setup. The Dreamcast has powerful enough hardware that it could turn into (through licensing and broadband support) a convergance device. Sony has leverage in the area already since they manufacture PCs, entertainment appliances and gaming consoles. Check through a magazine from about a year ago and you'll probably see an ad for the Sony home theater setup. If you combined a set-up like that with broadband internet and a gaming console you'd have an impressive line-up. This is exactly what Sony is doing in-house. Sega is trying to come up from behind and pull off the same thing but out of house. It's all about the games and the bottom line, I don't give a shit who's logo it is as long as I get to play some Crazy Tazi and Final Fantasy.
  • Seems like you trolls are the only ones with your heads buried in your asses... Why not try and refute any of the points I made? Or perhaps you have too much invested in your DC and games and simply wish to attack anybody who speaks the truth.

    The Dreamcast is DEAD technology. In Japan, where the PSX2 is OUT, they have to give them away in order to move them, with internet tie-ines just like those crappy "free PCs" with Cyrix PR-300s and PC66 RAM.

    Geez. Just like your game console, you have no balls either. Anonymous Cowards, indeed.
  • Sega is dying. Lets face it. They haven't made any real profits in years. They come out with mediocre systems (32X(ha!), Saturn, DreamSuck) and expect us to "deal with it". They can't attract licensees and they can't attract customers. The old die-hard Sega-heads I once knew (and grew up with...got my Nintendo Entertainment System on my 5th birthday, 1985 bay-bee) are all grown up now. They have jobs. They have lives. They have girlfriends.

    The new 'gamers' aren't used to Street Fighter II. Their used to Street Fighter IX Plus Amazing Marvel Super Mongo Heroes Turbo and Sexy. They want their games handed to them in nice, neat, packages, and they want blockbusters every month. I know this is kind of "Well, when I was a kid," kind of comments, but it has to be said. Sega hasn't made a decent system since the Genesis, and even it was overrated (it had great sports games, and decent RPGs, but lets face it). Nintendo has repeatedly beat the snot out of them, and when the Playstation finally arrived, it beat what was left of poor Sega into the dirt. It tried Saturn. Crap. It tried Dreamcast. Overrated Crap. This is a last-ditch effort by a last ditch company.

    Doesn't the fact that they're giving their systems away (even with the contract) a little disturbing? Sony could come out with the Playstation 2, charge $400 bucks a pop, and sell a million before the week was out. Sega can't give this crap away. Sigh.

  • By the time that the hardware costs for manufacturing have been reduced to the point where the DC and PS2 are profitable at their current price, I believe we will see that the prices will drop, much like they have with the Nintendo 64 / Playstation pricewar.

    Phillips, Panasonic et Al. will have to join in this pricewar, as well. What would /really/ be cute, is if this licensing could be employed to fashion a legitimate emulator or even some sort of bastardized drop-in card for PCs.

    Last I heard, which was the early days of the Connectix controversy, Sony was /still/ taking a slight loss with their dual-shock Playstation package, even though it's been out for four years. But they make up for it with their royalties.

  • So if Sega and Sony are both considering liscensing their console, could one manufacturer pick up both systems and put them in the same console? That'd be cool.

  • You just want to morph consoles into PCs. You must be jealous or something. Maybe its all the excellent console games that never get ported to PC?

    PCs are a moving target, as you point out, unlike consoles. As you yourself note, this makes PC games unstable. Then you go on to say that consoles should go down the same route as PCs. You also advocate a single de facto standard, apparently for the good of everyone.

    In reality, the console manufacturers define very different markets for their products, and develop those markets in a way that one single standard couldn't hope to. Nintendo go for simplicity and elegance of gameplay, and an eye on the younger generation of gamers. Sony have gone for depth and hip-ness, focussing on games that you don't have to be embarrassed to be court playing if you are a grown-up. And then Sega deliver high-quality arcade conversions, with all the immediacy of play and accessibility involved in designing a game that doesn't leave you wondering what to do after you pay your quarter, and don't feel robbed even if your game only lasts a minute.

    Just like the consoles, PCs have their genre. First person shooters and real time strategy games rule supreme on the PC, and for those games, PC is best of breed. 'One standard' hasn't helped to bring together this amazing gaming platform that you speak of, that has all the best games. When a predominantly console-based developer does decide to port to PC, it is some months or years after their console release - Final Fantasy 7 springs to mind.

    Presumably you will insist that this is due to anti-competitive practices by the console makers, until such a day as there is only one console company in control of the market. Then you will answer anyone's complaint that the games market has gone stale by telling them that the console maker must be allowed the Freedom to Innovate.

  • 3DO failed for the same reason CDi failed. They refused to admit it was a game machine. 3D0 tried to trick people into thinking that they could watch movies, order pizza, watch cabletv, run the house, cook dinner , etc etc with the box. The fact that it had some great video games was swept under the rug. Also, the $799 price tag was WAY to high.
    D
  • The DC is a huge hit in the US and Europe. SEGA has learned from it's mistakes and is set to be a real challenge to the PS2 when it hits the states. If E3 was any indication, then the DC might even outshine the PS2 this fall.
    D
  • Sega showed a DVD add-on for the DC during E3.
    D
  • First we had the Sears Telegames Arcade System (licensed Atari 2600 technology)

    Next we had the Sears Telegames Super Arcade System (licensed Intellivision technology)

    Now we have the Sears Telegames Super-Elite Arcade System?

    Hmm...

    --

  • To be considered all-in-one nowadays it has to be able to play DVDs. Since a stock Dreamcast doesn't do that, is it at all possible to add that capability?

    And what did they mean by getting other companies to make chips for the Dreamcast? Is that for add-ons, or upgrades, or did the journalists just screw up?
  • I know I might be offtopic but...

    Every company wants to control the market
    and make all the money themselves while totally shafting the consumer. You would think that everyone would try and share the specs and make a universal console that any company could make and therefore have a large player base with compatible hardware, and have the specs change every fe months or years.

    This way the software companies could make a game and not worry about which platform do develop it for.

    At any rate it would be better for the consumers and not the console companies so odds are it will never happen and we will always be stuck with the same question:

    What console do you want to buy?
    Come see my website.
    http://come.to/streiff
  • Lots of people want to provide the one fast box that controls lots of other things in your home. The cable TV industry wants to provide a set-top box that not only controls your TV, but gets to provide other services to your home, and there are all kinds of appallingly ugly standards trying to evolve for splitting up spectrum to piggyback data on digital TV. CableLabs [cablelabs.com] has pointers to some of them. The cable modem people (who overlap a bit with cable TV, but aren't the same thing) and the DSL people want to provide IP connectivity to your house, and use it to not only take over telephony but also provide broadcast television. Some of the game console people just want to sell you games, but Sony's organization that does games understands that it's selling the fastest computer in most people's houses, and selling modems to do interactive gaming, and therefore they can do lots of cool stuff with it, like make all the other Sony electronics entertainment equipment talk to it. Of course, the PC people want to control everything also, and they overlap a bit with the cablemodem/dsl folks, but you've still got to decide which one gets to run the phones once we replace the phone company. Oh, yeah, then there's satellite - it's a bit more limited, and needs a modem uplink, but they've been including TiVo-like stuff lately as well as offering one-way data. Anybody else trying to take over the world*?

    *World Domination is a trademark of that innocent-looking penguin...

  • 3DO was a specification, and the technology was licensed (sp?) out to third party manufacturers to make. As long as your device met the 3DO specs, it was a 3DO device.

    - Ed.
  • By licensing the technology...does that mean that clones of the Dreamcast could start to appear? Are we seeing a pattern here? Apple and PC. one makes clones, the other doesn't. One becomes extremely popular, another nearly bites the dust.
    We could be seeing the start of a Sega take over.
    Kiss Nintendo good bye!
  • crap. You should've gone to e3. It is clear that Sega is ripping it up on the creative business model front, something Sony is not prepared to compete with. I have access to each of the current platforms as well as the ps2, and I have to say, the Dreamcast can certainly hold it's own.

    The few honestly creative titles are being developed for the Dreamcast and the PC, not for the ps2. The only thing I've seen on ps2 worth mentioning is Unreal Tournament, a pc game i've been playing for many many months (read decades in the video game market).

    My prediction: the Dreamcast 2 will ship with a DVD player and braodband support by summer or spring next year, but otherwise be the same machine inside.



    :)Fudboy

  • Okay, I've been trying to wrap my head around this for a little while now, and I still can't come up with a reason /why/ some company would want to license and manufacture Dreamcast or PS2-based equipment that would wind up competing with the 'Vanilla' DC or PS2 consoles.

    Realize that both the DC and the PS2 are sold at a loss, because Sega and Sony makes their money off a royalty on software sold for the systems. This makes the consoles cheap and palatable by Joe Consumer, so he'll buy one, get hooked, and buy a ton of software at a slightly inflated price. Give them the razor, sell the blades.

    Now, it would be ludicrous for another company to try to sell something in the same market space as the DC or PS2, based on the DC or PS2 firmware, because they don't have that software royalty coming in. They'd have to manufacture a DC or PS2 clone, and sell it for more money, probably bundling in a few features as justification to Joe Consumer.

    This just seems like one of those worthless Public Relations gestures on the behalf of Sony and Sega, much like many recent companies releasing software as 'Open Source.'

  • Just a technical nit: (Score:3)

    by seebs ( 15766 ) on Tuesday June 13, 2000 @01:00PM (#1004502) Homepage
    That's 3DO, not 3D0. You know, audio, video, threedeo.

    Anyway, the killer mistake in 3DO's setup was that the companies they licensed to all tried to make money on hardware. You can't make money selling consoles, but you can, possibly, make money licensing games for them. So, Panasonic (for instance) had no incentive to price their 3DO units competitively. End result, the system didn't get the mass market acceptance it needed.

    Both Sony and Sega are addressing that; they are, themselves, providing units at reasonable costs. This way, if someone else wants to get into the market, the price won't become too high for consumers to pick up a system.

    I really miss the 3DO; to this day, I have never seen another system which had games with the kind of depth they tended to favor. 3DO games were often dissed for being "slow" when they were actually "deep". (e.g., Need For Speed on the 3DO was an actual car sim, rather than a racing game. I tried NFS for the PC once, and in "simulation" mode you could hit a wall at 40-50mph and expect to keep driving.)

    (Curiously, the company is still around, and actually doing very well; they sold their hardware division for about $100M, bought New World Computing, and now have a bunch of fairly successful brands.)

    Disclaimer: I own a couple of 3DO console systems, and several of their games, and some of their stock. I'm a big fan.
  • I agree with you 100%. I feel like the early Apple fans who couldn't fathom why Microsoft was kicking Apple's ass. As we've all learned, and are still learning, it's not always about the technology (although the PS2 has good numbers). Sometimes it's about the marketing, as sad as that sounds.
  • Any of you remember Trip Hawkins, original president of 3DO? The guy who desperately wanted to be Steve Jobs.

    He predicted that every home in america would own one, and he shoved the words "interactive" and "multimedia" down everyone's throats.

    3DO wasn't a bad system... it was just marketed wrong, and under the wrong market conditions. A friend of mine bought one for $700 CDN ($500 US) when it first came out, he was a bit of a nutcase, but that is not how you launch a system.

    Anyways, I wonder whatever happened to good ol' Trip, he was quite a prominent figure several years ago.
  • we are here (waves index and middle fingers back and forth between our eyes...)

    I went out and bought an N64 (stop laughing) to play Perfect Dark. While I was at it, I also picked up GoldenEye and Legend of Zelda because I heard those were the best games on the N64. Do those games compare to Dreamcast? No. Do they rock? Hell yeah !! I've been playing the hell out of all 3 because they are great games.

    I'll probably wind up buying a PS2. Only after I find that there is a game or 2 that I absolutely have to have and can't find on the Dreamcast.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • 24/7 (Score:2)

    by KFury ( 19522 )
    So this paves the way for my Transmeta Dreamcast with bluetooth controllers and an ethernet connection, right?

    Pair that with my glasstrons, 802.11 wireless card, and the optional belt-clip and I'll never have to leave the fantasy world again!

    It's thinking...
    ...so you can stop

    Kevin Fox
  • Don't think I don't realise Sega has made mistakes in the past (and I never really did like them), but --

    What's so horrible about the Dreamcast? Of the available game consoles today, I think the DC has the best selection of titles out there. I also respect that they're willing to put out games that throw your typical genres out the window (Samba De Amigo, Seaman, etc.) -- games that, if made for another platform, would never be released in America.

    I've been holding off for many years on getting a game console (my last purchase was the SNES and I never really liked it much anyway). Why? Because with N64, the only decent games are the ones made by Nintendo/Rare, and the I've never liked the Playstation one bit. Then the Dreamcast came along and wait as I did, I eventually could not resist getting one. The amount of games I want to buy (10-15 of the current selection, many more to be released) is what totally crushes the competition in my opinion.

    Yeah, so the PS2 is coming out towards the end of the year. Oh and it will have better hardware. So what? That doesn't mean the games will be good. I can only think of one at the moment (Dynasty Warriors 2) and that isn't much to go on. This is all, of course, my personal taste -- but why rule out Dreamcast in favour of a system that 1) the manufacturer has lied about in regards to what it will come with, 2) has few cool games going for it, and 3) costs more than twice the price? Yeah, maybe Playstation 2 *will* get some cool games eventually... And maybe I'll get one when that happens, but why ignore an entire (inexpensive) system, with a large and growing selection of games, that has a lot going for it?

    -vl

  • The answer is NO.
  • Actually the PSX and the DC are none whatsoever similar other then the word "game console" used between them.

    I never considered Sony a console system for several reasons, the major one being sony can't write a game for squat, so i guess being a monopoly makes up for that :)

    And no, it is not catchup. The DC is a fast 128bit gaming console with internet and gameplay in mind. The PS2 is yet to be released, so in my mind it is sony playing catchup to try and curtail the DC wave.

    I can confess, i own a Sony DVD player, but never will i touch a PSX with a 10 foot pull. I got bleemcast for that haha :)

  • Actually the Ethernet card for the DC was released in Japan and coming stateside shortly and the new Browser 3.0 will have a full JDK included as well so you can use the DC to run Java Applications.

    So if you get huge ass belt clip, your already there!

  • Dude, get your head out of your ass. The DC has more memory, easier programmability (which makes or breaks ship dates on games and quality). Smaller footprint, cooler CPU, and more software. The DC has high speed game ports along with VMU's that PS2 outright stole.

    Along with a few hundred titles, a network card, 64 meg vmu with MP3 playback, a full web browser, a full JDK kit and 4 gaming ports (who was on crack and only stuck 2 ports on a console???).

    Its also funny how even the hardline PS2'ers at IGN wrote the following article.

    http://ps2.ign.com/news/20660.html

    So if you had graduated school and learned how to think for yourself you would understand how DC is far superior competition then your ineferior mind can contemplate.

  • And the PS2 is just an overly hyped DVD player in a new case. Whats the difference? The PS2 video chip doesn't handle all of the real graphics features that the market demans. Sure you get polygons up the ass but with anti aliasing the figure gets works. And the Suzuki Yokimoto or whatever developers are pumping 5 million frams a second out for F355 and Shenmue.

    Plus the GDROM gurantees game sales. You can't copy them unless you spend a few grand on a developer station and if you do that you may as well buy the dc library and still save a buck.

    The DreamCast *IS* the first full fledged out of the box performance gaming console. It has been out for two years by the time the PS2 hits the US market and it has yet to reach its full potential.

    So tell me why i should plop down 300 bucks for a console that plays dvds (which i already own a DVD player with full digital outputs, ac3 and dts support..) and only has 2 controller ports and a bunch of games i already play on my dc?

    The DC is certified for Dolby Digital Playback, has Mp3 Supports, Web Browser, Network/Modem support, FOUR PLAYER support, Excellent Graphics, Excellent and AFFORDABLE games and most of all UNIQUE games.

  • This article perfectly sums up the hype around the PS2.

    http://ps2.ign.com/news/20660.html

    Here is a refresher on the DC Hardware.

    http://ningendo.emulationzone.org/consolewars/dc.h tml

    Also new and announced and currently shipping peripherals are:

    Zip Disk

    64 Meg VMU w/mp3 playback

    JDK

    Web Browser - Updated and revised regularly

    Network Card - Got DSL/Cable - replace modem with NIC Card

    Dolby Digital Music - Certified

    Keyboard

    Mouse

    GAMES

    Oh yeah, its also shipping and can be bough for $0.00 if you know how to shop.

    Don't forget with a DC you can play 4 other friends, and online gaming is around the corner.

    The PS2 is overly glorified DVD player and a SHITTY one at that. Why would i give up a great Sony DVD 550D Player? I don't think the PS2 offers a 10th the amount of features any real av tech would want. DTS, AC3? Pan n Scan, Frame by frame?

  • Sega just doesn't have the panache of a Sony enabled device. Sony is a known brandname that right or wrong is equated with quality. Right now Sega is equated with a broken down dog. I hope Sega gets its act together because I believe the Dreamcast is a great console. The PS2, right now, is nothing more than hype. The problem Sega is facing is their past. They killed the Saturn and pissed off a lot of people. Sometimes you don't get a second chance.
  • Doesn't the Dreamcast have onboard, hardware-based Anti-Aliasing, which the PSX2 doesn't have?
    Dan
  • I've got my eyes open for the PSX2 this fall. When the dreamcast first came out I considered getting one. That was until Sony announced the playstation 2. I don't think the dreamcast will be able to compare with it.

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