John Carmack on the X-box Advisory Board? 108
Prabhjeet Singh writes "Voodoo Extreme reports that John Carmack is on the X-Box advisory board. Here is the scoop. "According to PlanetXbox, id Software's John Carmack is now on the technical advisory board for Microsoft's X-Box console system". Check it out." The original source is on PlanetXBox. I tried reaching id for comment, but was unable to get through - this is still unsubstantiated.
Re:Isn't this a conflict of interest? (Score:2)
That's how they'll get their foot in the door. Gaming.
But with multiple functionality, Microsoft could easily eat a small proportion of the desktop market. The folks for whom computers are just too expensive, or complicated - they need SOME computer functionality (primarily gaming, yes, the web, ecommerce, email, obviously, financial planning services, word processing, multimedia/streaming video/audio), but they don't need the functionality, complexity, and expense of a CAD workstation, or C++ development workstation. Those people, who may currently have a PC, and know it's too much for their needs, and those people who just want a gaming console and find XBox more compelling with the extra features than dreamcast or ps/2, they're going to buy XBox.
This casual home market is a big market, and the game-console/DVD player/webTV browser is one hell of a gateway. Give them some limited PC functionality, and this thing will be on fire. Then give the developers a compelling development market like DirectX which gives them a very easy way to port between this huge console market, and desktop PCs, and the developers will forget OpenGL, ps/2, Macintosh, or anything else ever existed.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
Re:It's Official (Score:3)
I doubt too many of those Japanese developers can code rings around him. Square? haha dont even make me laugh. perhaps they could make cgi better than him.
Namco? No... perhaps they could make a better game than him alone, but I doubt anyone working there knows more than him.
Capcom? No... they may make a better 2D fighting game, but I would like to see them try and make a FPS like Quake.
Konami? Maybe. But not one person there im sure knows more than him.
Remember, when you see an average game and you see an id game, look at the credits. An average games credits are minutes long watching. id's fits on ONE SCREEN.
Re:ponderance (Score:1)
Re:Carmack worship (Score:1)
Nice.
I'm just pissed because Jim Gray and Bruce Lindsay are my gods and none of you gamer geeks even recognize the names.
--Shoeboy
C'mon (Score:1)
"This is not the great, shocking news some of us make it out to be."
John Carmack is not God. John Carmack is, however, an expert in his field. Moreover, he is an expert who has sold millions of copies of his product. Guess what? That makes him someone even Microsoft will listen to when they're about to release something that will be of interest in his line of work.
In fact, that makes him someone other companies listen to as well (check some other posts for details). If you're a gaming hardware company, you're going to at least want to hear what the lead programmer of one of the most influential gaming companies (yes, yes, other games *may or may not be* more fun to play, but you must admit that Id products have more influence than any others) has to say.
Most likely, they'll buy Carmack another Ferrari just so they can say in their press releases that they have been advised by "The Master Himself".
(disclaimer: I'm a big fan of every game Id has put out so far)
Re:Carmack? Cool... (Score:1)
Re:X-Box isn't as great as it seems (Score:1)
Re:No, but this is: (Score:1)
Why not DirectX? (Score:1)
Case in point: Homeworld. Built on Direct3D, it's one of the best engines I've seen (for infinite-space horizons). No, it's not based on OpenGL, but should we avoid it entirely because it isn't?
Re:Editorial Kudos... (Score:2)
Well, there's no advisory board as such for Apple, but it was Carmack's personal evangelism that convinced Jobs to dump QuickDraw3D and go with OpenGL, to name his most obvious influence. You can rest assured that what he has to say is at least considered seriously by Steve J., which is Apple for all practical purposes.
Re:Isn't this a conflict of interest? (Score:1)
>"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet, tasty beer."
> --Homer Simpson
Actually the line is:
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
Instead of going on an angry rant about people that misquote The Simpsons, I will simply point you to www.snpp.org [snpp.org].
Please refer here for all futute quotes.
-hom3r
"People can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forfty percent of all people know that."
-Homer Simpson
NT has been pretty decent from the beginning. (Score:1)
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Xbox is a console (Score:1)
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Who are the "herd people"? (Score:1)
Would those "herd people" you mention be:
Careful there, I think your cud is showing...
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Microsoft could easily block OpenGL drivers (Score:2)
Microsoft could easily block OpenGL drivers though legal means. Just make a licence for the box that forbids development/deployment of any driver not approved by Microsoft. IMHO that's exactly the kind of stunt they intend to pull.
If Microsoft does manage to get a decent share of the settop box market you can expect all the usual evil business methods we have come to know and detest.
I fear that everybody - consumers, developers, competitors, distributors - are going to be taken for the usual ride if Microsoft's Xbox plans unfold as they intend.
The best form of protection the world could possibly get from dirty tricks connected with XBox is legal: if Microsoft wants to take a PC and call it an XBox, then the XBox will automatically become part of Microsoft's monopoly, and Microsoft will be prohibited in a rather direct way from playing games with its licence. That means the XBox will be a PC. That means we can put Linux on it. If we can put Linux on it, I really don't case what else Microsoft does with it.
On the other hand, if the XBox turns out not to be a PC, then I don't really care what they do with it: it won't be able to run PC games and, not having that single crucial advantage, it will be a lame duck in the market.
There are, of course, other responses to XBox than the purely legal. For example, if you are a game developer get a life and don't develop for it. That means don't develop for DirectX. If you are a decent developer you can make twice as much money doing network apps, or you can join the good guy game companies, for example, Loki. If you are not a decent developer, then by all means, continue developing developing for DirectX
This post will surely bring out the usual astroturfing Microsoft moderaters, so if you are one of those, take note: Don't bother. I already marked it down.
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Re:fud, fud, fud (Score:1)
How about mice and joypads? MS has a rather better record in hardware than software i.e. they take less than 3 attempts to turn it into something usable. I just wish that funky new mouse came in a left handed version.
It can only get better this way! (Score:1)
For the record: (Score:2)
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Re:Right guy (Score:1)
Hmm...interesting. I think we may be seeing Doom 2000/III/3 or whatever on the X-Box. Personally, I'd love to see Q3A on the NV25...
Re:If it's true... (Score:2)
I always liked his work because of the stability. In Doom, if you go walking through and around things, the engine doesn't crash. You can even have monsters spill into the great void outside of the defined map, and spend hours running around nothing with only the HoM effect to keep you company..
Compare this with Duke3D which would crash so hard when you left the map (or sometimes, though holes in the map around doors), that after the first two versions, 3DRealms made it so that you dieded if you crossed a map boundtry (to stop the game from getting to where it could crash).
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Business without ethics (Score:1)
Re:Microsoft Training program and RedHat (Score:1)
Carmack on Many Technical Advisory Boards (Score:5)
Why? Microsoft gets feedback from an industry expert. John gets early access to information about hardware. It is beneficial to both parties.
Is that selling out? No way. From what I can tell, John is perfectly happy to speak his mind regardless of what the hardware manufacturer wants to hear. He still does care about Linux. He joined our (PI) technical meeting a few months ago. You're just seeing less of him recently because he's busy with his next product.
- |Daryll
Re:Isn't this a conflict of interest? (Score:1)
Second, xbox isnt going to take any desktop operating share at all. ITS A GAMING CONSOLE. CONSOLE. CONSOLE. CONSOLE.
Get it? Everyone thinks that this is going to be windows in a box or something. Its not. its a strictly GAMING CONSOLE. You arent going to be doing your taxes on it. Your going to be blowing shit up on it.
Re:Death of OpenGL (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft Training program and RedHat (Score:1)
Re:It's Official (Score:1)
Re:If it's true... (Score:1)
Pretty hackable? Remember, we are talking about Microsoft here. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. Well, at least the first two.
Also, you bring up an interesting possibility for the distribution of games that will be made on the X-Box. I read somewhere that with all of Microsoft's holdings in and aquisitions of broadband providers, that they plan to develop centrally managed applications in the future, i.e. running Office on a central server somewhere, and having everyone use their computers as terminals. A pretty good stratagy for preventing piracy. Also a pretty good stratagy for absolute control over their own applications.
But this is only speculation...
Re:The big picture; (Score:1)
The exceptions to this model, of course, are office98 for Mac, actually pretty decent, and IE 5.5 for Mac, very standards-compliant - but once the Windows version of IE 5.5 gets out there, and developers start developing for Windows' IE 5.5's particular implementation of CSS, etc., the Macintosh version of IE 5.5 will support a subset of sites, and again, the Mac users are marginalized, and begin to suspect that they might have a better web experience if they were using a Windows machine.
This is usually news to any person who has ever believed anything written in a factsheet on Microsoft's website.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
Re:X-Box isn't as great as it seems (Score:1)
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Re: This is a load of garbage (Score:4)
Re:It's Official (Score:1)
If Bungie was smart and wanted super bonus points they would release it for the PC and MAC.
Don't worry about it (Score:1)
You and the other three people who will account for all of Indrema's sales will still be able to write all the games you want for yourselves. Maybe you guys could team up with the 5 remaining OS/2 users and build something based on the old DOOM source. Lord knows the Open Source community could use another First Person Shooter! ;-)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Re:The big picture; (Score:2)
Or maybe he'll use nVidia's version. (Score:1)
Former id guy, now at MS, working on Xbox. Scroll down to about the middle, where he says:
For those who prefer OpenGL, NVIDIA will provide a fully Xbox-enhanced version.
Your dream will come true.
Re:The big picture; (Score:1)
It will support OpenGL, that has already been announced. Why the heck are you commenting on this when you don't even no the most elementary and well publicised facts about the XBox? I know folks here have various axes to grind over the API issues but get the FACTS right. XBox will support OpenGL period. How many times does it have to be said before it sinks in?
Why the heck is a post with blatant factual inaccuracies moderated up?
Re:well duh (Score:1)
NO, OpenML is a different thing. It's for streaming video and such, it does not replace OpenGL.
Re: This is a load of garbage (Score:1)
Re:Death of OpenGL (Score:1)
However, Heroes of Might and Magic III for Linux uses SDL, (since the guy who wrote it works for Loki
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
John works best with stuff that John likes most! (Score:1)
Re:Death of OpenGL (Score:1)
If Carmack could get all that he wants in D3D, MS wouldn't even have to get him another ferrari.
Re:Why not DirectX? (Score:1)
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Re:The big picture; (Score:1)
Did you stop to think that perhaps microsoft think they can do a better job and create a better api than opengl? And you know what? They were right! Well we'd better complain. They definitely didn't invent directx because they wanted something better than opengl. It's because they fear the big scary competition from you four blokes who use opengl for quake on linux, and they're trying to muscle you out.
You guys just don't geddit huh?
Re:Or maybe he'll use nVidia's version. (Score:1)
It's beginning to seem to me like nVidia is essentially, "the next SGI". SGI seems to have lost much of their sense of direction, while in a few years (if things keep going the way they are) nVidia will basically be the dominant 3D graphics processor maker.
Which implies that the future of OpenGL lies in how important it is to nVidia to keep OpenGL on par with Direct3D. Somebody has to - Direct3D is already overtaking OpenGL, featurewise (barring GL extensions - extensions are nice, but if they're not part of the official API then they're seriously iffy.) SGI doesn't seem to have much interest in creating an OpenGL version 2. Maybe nVidia might? One can hope.
Re:X-Box isn't as great as it seems (Score:1)
"Your computer video card that you're running right now probably can get comparable polys. What? You're saying that you've tested and you cant?"
Of course it can't - you will never get as many polys on a non-GeForce PC as you will on a GeForce-based PC, simply because CPU is the bottleneck - vertices have to be transformed on the CPU. Also, ever heard of "fill rate"? That's another factor. The bus speed on a GeForce card means it can simply draw everything it draws, much quicker. Who wants to use 320x240? Have you tried to play a game like Q3A at 320x240? It's a joke - you need the resolution.
And your stupid "27fps" argument - 3D games look much worse than TV at the same frame rate, simply because television images are blurrier and "ghost", creating artifical "motion blur". That doesn't happen on a PC with a 3D acceleration, 27fps looks terrible - not only that, but you need a higher update rate to react quickly enough to threats in the game - ask anyone who plays seriously - it makes a huge difference. Also you sit further away from a TV, and you don't need to aim a crosshair at somebody who is only 5 pixels high even at 1024x768, when you're watching TV.
Your arguments are bogus, and you lack technical knowledge - either that or you're just trolling.
Chances are that the X-box will be released with nVidia's next-generation GPU (after the GeForce2), which I assure you will last at least two to three years before it starts to seem slow (heck, game developers (with the exception of Carmack because he designs games to work with "tomorrow"'s graphics cards) can't even keep up with the rate at which 3D cards are improving - by the time the first games trickle onto the market that take full advantage of the GeForce, nVidia will have their next GPU out. And after that 2 to 3 years, XBox2 will come out, even faster.
"The high poly rates have a drawback though"
So just what is that drawback? You make high poly rates sound like a bad thing, but you never say why. Perhaps that's because you don't know what you are talking about.
I want the XBox to suck as much as the next guy, and I desperately want the project to fail, mainly because the moment MS gains dominance in any market, the quality of everything in that market deteriorates badly. They fsck everything up. But if they do ever release the XBox, it will be damned fast, and the technology in it won't be instantly obsolete.
Carmack? Cool... (Score:3)
Didn't something like this happen already? (Score:1)
Right guy (Score:1)
Carmack on the kingdom of X-Box. Huh? (Score:1)
But boys and girls, Carmack is NOT a god!
Carmack on X-Box Advisory (advices can be safely ignored my Microsoft) Board (his advices can be safely ignored by the board) means NOTHING. Really NOTHING.
And, seriously, Microsoft NEEDS Carmack advices. X-Box in 2001? It'll be thrashed by PSX2.
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Carmack wants X-Windows dead. The problem? He's right. X is good for network work. For games and local desktop needs sucks big time.
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Unsubstantiated (Score:2)
Oh well.
Blizzard 'n others (Score:1)
Microsoft is investing an awful lot of money into XBox...but here's a better idea (and much more expensive...), if those rumored Mac boxes become true (which I have a 90+% certainty that it will not), you'll have a nice CPU, AGP graphics, DVD, HD, heck, just 'bout everything XBox has to offer, except this isn't a dedicated game console. (and again, much more expensive of course)
Re:Substantiated. (Score:1)
*Sigh* (Score:1)
www.badassmofo.com [badassmofo.com]
Newly Redesigned. High in fiber, low in cholestorol
Re:Substantiated. (Score:1)
Editorial Kudos... (Score:4)
(Of course, it's kind of sad when standard journalistic due diligence is such the exception that it sticks out like this....)
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Re:fud, fud, fud (Score:2)
They have a smaller version of the optical mouse which is dual-handed (it's normal mouse-sized, rather than the oversized Intellimouse Explorer) I like the bigger version, but then again, I'm right handed, so it's not an issue. The smaller one feels nice too though.
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Death of OpenGL (Score:1)
Carmack was responsible for the popularity of OGL in the gaming market...now he's in team with M$.
DirectX is already winning (Linux doesn't support it yet either), Bungie got bought by M$ (kiss anymore good Mac games goodbye), and now Carmack is going to program in DirectX for the X-Box.
OpenGL will be as dead as SCO is by the end of the year. Sorry.
If it's true... (Score:3)
I've been impressed by Id before I knew who they were (Wolfenstein), and in awe of Carmack probably somewhere between Doom and Quake. He writes some amazingly fast graphics stuff.
Also, even if the console is from Microsoft, I still trust Carmack's integrity. If anyone has a chance of getting something good for both the gaming community and the free software community, even from Microsoft, it's Carmack. And if he doesn't like the way things are going, I bet he'd resign, and post a nice, long, juicy
Anyone have any more general X-Box details? From what I've heard, it should be pretty cheap, and probably pretty hackable too, just because of the PC hardware. But then, the specs will be in flux for a while, and I'm sure they'll do their best to secure it. But that will surely go the way of Playstations and DVD Players: physical access to a self-enclosed hardware device is always enough for a determined hacker.
And if they tried a DivX sort of system, which is what it sounds like where Microsoft wants to go tomorrow, well... I for one would run like the plague. And go back to playing Metroid, and not paying by the minute.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
Re:Death of OpenGL (Score:1)
I've been looking for good statistics on the acceptance of OpenGL vs. DirectX for games in the past year. It seems as though more companies are releasing Mac versions of games, so wouldn't OpenGL still be used primarily to make such porting easier?
ponderance (Score:1)
I wonder if that might keep him a little too busy to play with porting X-Windows to Apple's Darwin?
Just flame me if it was another well-known programmer I heard of doing that.
Isn't this a conflict of interest? (Score:2)
Carmack was interested in the Linux market for their games at one point, pointing out that many industry people were going to watch the sales of Quake III for Linux very closely to see if it was a viable gaming market.
I don't know how those sales figures turned out, but if id is now going to producing games for the x-box, where does Linux fall in all of this? Given: The number one software market is games. It will be more difficult to promote Linux as a viable replacement for the desktop operating system if the xbox is taking a piece of the market share.
I am very unsure what Carmack's interest in the xbox is. I think it would be very dumb of Microsoft not to have Carmack on the board. It would be very beneficial to them to have Carmack on their side.
If this is all fact, I'm just unsure of what Carmack's interest is. Speculation will probably go wild...
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet, tasty beer."
flying the flag (Score:1)
If it's not true then here's an opportunity!
OpenGL on Xbox? (Score:2)
Better than having just MS drones on the board (Score:1)
Anyhow, on topic, we are far more likely to get a decent outcome with this sort of equipment if we work with them (if they allow it)! Face the facts, we have been working with hardware manufacturers for years. The microsoft mice are well supported so should the XboX. John has moved Microsoft before on the openGL issue, lets hope he can help them bring out a great games machine.
BTW I am not all that keen on what I perceive as monolopies, be it MS with OSes or Sony with Playstations. Bring on the competition and make that competition fierce!
****** Posted with Mozilla ********
Carmack worship (Score:4)
John Carmack has officially sold out!!! OpenGL is dead!!!
Get a fucking grip. Carmack is just a developer. He's the best at what he does and he's got a lot of expertise, but he's hardly capable of making or breaking a console platform. Additionally, nobody has said anything about DirectX vs. OpenGL wrt this deal - which is just a rumor anyway.
You guys sound like JeffK -- John Carmaeke is SMARtey ProraEMIng WiZARD MaN!!!!!
--Shoeboy
Steve Jobs (Score:1)
Well, Microsoft is starting to prove them wrong - if developers are flocking to XBox like they seem to be, (bought or not).
Carmack was one of the key figures in Apple's "serious about gaming" strategy. Bungie's lost to XBox, and now Carmack? That coupled with the lack of a serious 3d card for Macs (STILL!), does not bode well for the future of gaming. Apple should have done the AMP.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
Re:X-Box could be decent... (Score:1)
Re:Death of OpenGL (Score:3)
you are misguided.
nVidia and Microsoft have stated that nVidia will support OpenGL on the XBox, INCLUDING support for all the advanced graphics features. DirectX is NOT the equivalent of OpenGL. D3D is the 3D component that competes with OpenGL. You can write code which calls DirectX AND OpenGL and Carmack has, he DOESN'T use the D3D part of DirectX.
DirectX will NEVER exist on Linux, Microsoft's whole strategy is to own the API's and deploy them exclusively on Win32 to lock the applications to that platform.
Carmack is NOT "in team with M$", at most he's advising them. He actually advised them on D3D a long time ago, OK, the advice was "throw it away", but he had lengthy meetings with M$ at the height of the D3D vs OpenGL wars years ago. Guess what his advice on XBox will be today? I'd guess he'll be advising them to support all the great features using OpenGL, including advice on OpenGL extensions. That isn't selling out, it's consistent with what his position has been for years. Infact Carmack has said from the outset that if D3D were better he'd use it but way back in his famous
This is not the death of OpenGL. In fact with D3D copying so much of OpenGL it would almost be a semantic argument if D3D weren't such a darned mess. Even with your nightmare scenario (which isn't going to transpire) porting D3D games to OpenGL should actually be pretty easy and Loki have already demonstrated this.
Re:Editorial Kudos... (Score:2)
Re:If it's true... (Score:1)
I heard the same thing about Microsoft(.NET)'s future strategy, which is what makes me leery about the X-box.
But only time will tell, and I'd rather be out watching the X-men right now.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
Re:Death of OpenGL (Score:2)
Unfortunately, Apple has ceased all development on QuickDraw3D. It is still available on the current versions of MacOS, but will not be available on MacOS X.
That is, no official version of QD3D will be available on MacOS X. There is always the Quesa [designcommunity.com] project, which is a cross-platform library that runs on top of OpenGL and provides the same functionality as QuickDraw3D (with API-level compatibility). As to whether any game companies will actually use Quesa remains to be seen. (The project is open-source, licensed under the LGPL.)
In any case, I think it was a big mistake for Apple to stop development of QuickDraw 3D. It's a great API, not just for porting, but for doing original work as well. Look at Bugdom and Nanosaur [pangeasoft.net], two fairly sophisticated 3D games that were written by a very small development team. That just goes to show how easy it is to develop using QD3D. Hopefully the Quesa project will keep it alive and maybe even increase its popularity.
so what? (Score:1)
well duh (Score:1)
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Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
Re:You miss something! (Score:1)
Re:It's Official (Score:1)
(Linus Torvalds, Bill Gate, Bill Clinton, Larry Wall, RMS, etc...)
How many Japanese products are like that? The guy that invented the WALKMAN was just another loyal Sony employee. Can you name the individual behind any Japanese technology? I can't.
"Nobody ever built a monument to a Committee"
--Somewhere off fortune(6)..
Not too worried now. (Score:1)
fud, fud, fud (Score:2)
big deal. i think the xbox is going to take a dump, other than the keyboard i use i know of no MS hardware that is a comm'l success.
the spec web benchmark reamed win2K, and a couple weeks ago a little 32/64 bit, full mutitasking os, complete with src code (that many of us know and love) hit some 97% of the win98 openGL performance.
so, even though JC has not had a lot of nice things to say about linux, my personal experience today was installing debian, NT4 and redhat on three dual cpu P3 500 dells, brand new, out of the box.
NT blue screened on machine 1, redhat and debian installed flawlessly. just for grins, i installed RH on machine 1 as well -- no problems whatsoever.
all three are burning in over the weekend. i'll check dell support monday for the NT install issues.
i think linux has a stong future, esp. with the big embedded/japan announcement a day or so ago. carmack has a right to his opinions on linux, and the right to "go MS".
choose your own path, and be proud of it. it ain't no big deal, except so many kids look up to carmack. from that point of view, it doesn't do a lot for the concept of open-mindedness, fairness or a free market. maybe he'll say something like those sports figures say : "i'm not a role model"...
Substantiated. (Score:5)
I put off an interviewer with questions about the X-Box by saying that I was on the X-Box Advisory Board, and probably shouldn't discuss specifics, instead of just my usual "sorry, too busy" reply.
Here is the longer answer:
At last years CGDC, Tim Sweeny and I had a meeting with Bill Gates about the X-Box. It was not handled well.
For weeks ahead of time, I had been pressing for technical information so I could have something useful to comment on at the meeting. A couple days before the meeting, I finally got an email directing me to "look at this EETimes article, they are pretty close". Yeah. Ok.
So, we just wound up just talking about generalities.
A while later, I was contacted about being on the formal advisory board, with a promise that it wouldn't be like that "trophy meeting" at CGDC, but would be making critiques of real documents.
I am on a lot of advisory boards, and they vary quite a bit in level of participation.
3DFX's advisory board meets every quarter, and we go over detailed technical things. Unfortunately, the very first advisory board of over two years ago discussed a part that still hasn't shipped, so it is hard to say what the impact is.
Apple's gaming advisory board has met three times, and was moderately productive.
Nvidia listed me as a member of their technical advisory board in their IPO filing, but there has never been a group meeting. I meet with them a couple times a year privately, but I haven't had a whole lot to complain about or suggest to them since they got past the RIVA 128 (until the recent push for 64 bit color)-- they have been doing a great job.
All of the other companies just informally stop by everey once in a while to discuss things.
I had made some suggestions to microsoft about DirectSound and DirectInput in past years that were always at the wrong time to ever get acted upon, so I don't know what to expect from this board.
So far, microsoft seems to be sticking to the plan -- I got a big fat binder of stuff in today to look over before our meeting next week.
I'm all for the X-Box as a console platform. The graphics hardware is a lot cooler than PS2, and there are a lot of other things going for it. I am still uneasy about all the market protection issues that go with consoles, but I tend to think that microsoft is a more open company than many of the traditional console companies.
I want microsoft to make good products. Heck, I want everyone to make good products. Even at the height of the D3D vs OpenGL antagonism, I had always given them source drops of what I was working on, and freedom to use it for demonstrating new features.
I had hoped that they would use it as a real-world testbed for new features, rather than just dreaming them up and making the industry follow their plan without ever really testing things out.
In any case, talking with MS has no bearing on my development decisions. I'm still using OpenGL, and we are still planning simultanious releases for linux and MacOS-X. If things work out well with X-Box, that may be added to the list.
John Carmack
Re: This is a load of garbage (Score:1)
Re:Substantiated. (Score:5)
but no, you have to express your opinion and debunk our myths and speculations.
shame on you.
Re:Who are the "herd people"? (Score:1)
I agree completly! It bothers me when people have such hatred for products they haven't even seen just because it comes from a certain company.
If it's good, and it looks like it's on the right track, I'll buy it.
I would never want something to fail because MS is creating it. If there's a chance that a company will put out a product that's better than their competitors I salute them. No matter who they are. Competition is good. Microsoft doesn't have monopoly in the gaming market, and if they gain monopoly it will be because they are better than Sony. Competition is good.
Re:Right guy (Score:1)
About that 64-bit color remark you made.
You'r forgetting that Carmack is working on the next generation technology. You can't say "oh there's no application for 64-bit colors now, so why implement it?" if everyone did that there'd be no T&L.
I doubt that you ever wrote a line of code in your life, but if you have just blend a spherical gradient texture map on top of itself about 100 times and see how gradient it is. I'm guessing you'll be looking at about 2 or 3 shades of gray at the end of the process.
THAT'S why we need 64-bit colors. Texels would still be 32/24 or even 16 bits. You would just use 64-bits for the internal math and then do one high quality dither to the 32-bit frame buffer.
64-bit colors are for reducing banding on next-gen multi-pass stuff. Such as advanced lighting algorithms.
Re:If it's true... (Score:1)
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Re:Substantiated. (Score:1)
Re:Unsubstantiated (Score:1)
But what game are you watchin'? This has always been a rumor mill.
If you think anything here is written in stone, then... well, expect to see an update in hours or days, don't listen to Katz, and don't look at the slash code, either.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
Re:Right guy (Score:1)
There was a demand for hardware T&L beofre that was introduced. Anything that used OpenGL supported T&L.
The memory needed to store 64 bit texture buffers and framebuffers isn't a problem. Memory is cheap enough and probably fast enough. The fact that you have to double the thickeness of a pipeline in the chip for 256 texturing stages is a problem.
Sorry. Guess I just don't have a clue about how 3-D hardware works.
Re:Death of OpenGL (Score:1)
However, just write your games with SDL, the first time. Or make your own compatibility layer, if you must. What's the problem?
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
Re: This is a load of garbage (Score:1)
If the X-box runs at 800*600, the final resolution will have to be scaled down to fit within the 480-horizontal line limit. This is similiar to what TV-out cards for computers do..they linearly scale the high resolution output of the computer into the low resolution of TVs (which is one of the reasons the text is impossible to read).
Re:Carmack? Cool... (Score:2)
I mean, most people here have a dual-boot, if only to play games under Winbloze. So, if it can be improved by Carmack being an M$ advisor, then perhaps this is less of a Bad Thing, and more of a Thing Thing - I still can't bring myself to say it's a Good Thing though.
You're comment abut them buying companies becuase they can't build good stuff, isn't quite correct. Think of all the companies they've bought, solely becuase the company had a product better than their own.
Mong.
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Oh no... (Score:1)
tune
Re:flying the flag (Score:1)
Re:Prove it: (Score:1)
X-Box isn't as great as it seems (Score:1)
Now we go to performance. How great is the X-BOX performance? Insnanely high poly rates? The high poly rates have a drawback though. Your computer video card that you're running right now probably can get comparable polys. What? You're saying that you've tested and you cant? Well gee, i guess it's because you didn't set it to 320x240 res (the resolution of the TV) and set a max fps of 27 (also that of the TV). Well, it doesn't seem that absurd now, doesn't it?
Games? Well, any game for the X-Box can be ported to the Windows platform with minimal effort (and any for-profit company with the brian of a monkey would realize that would be a good idea).
So price, performance, and games are ruled out... what advantages does it have over a 1.5 year old PC with windows runing on it? Probably nothing.
And here's something to keep me mostly on-topic. Carmack is wasting his time on a doomed platform.
You miss something! (Score:5)
2) nVidia will provide a full OpenGL ICD for the XBox. (as stated in numerous newsitems). Therefor: it's totally logical that Carmack is an advisor for the XBox, because he is advisor for several OpenGL Driver implementators. He knows what's needed to get performance on the thing.
3) So what! Just because it's a microsoft product doesn't it make bad. When it's from Sony it's cool but from MS it's bad? What do you want then... a bag of parts and elements and a manual to solder, fiddle and build the thing yourself ? (plus write the 3D api layer yourself, because all you have is a chipset layout). Sometimes stuff that just comes out of a box and works directly is pretty ok
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The big picture; (Score:4)
If XBox is successful, Microsoft has another extremely powerful tool to further wedge DirectX into the minds of developers. Instead of OpenGL.
Microsoft's goal, in this, is to get developers writing primarily for the most popular platform - theirs: DirectX on Windows9x/NT/CE/XBox. Ports to other platforms, Unices, MacOS classic/x, ps/2, dreamcast, amiga, os/2 (I included the last two to illustrate what's going to happen to all the others) will be done later, if at all, there will be no parallel development if the gaming company has to get it to market fast and cheap, which is a necessity in this competitive world. Porting a DirectX game to OpenGL later will be a financial liability if you're talking about 30% or less of the combined market. The end result, less games on the minority platforms, less sales for minority platforms, market dominance, once again - didn't we learn this lesson in the 80's?
Why is the game-console important? Because, in the future, game-consoles will pick up other functions, they will get the non-PC market onto the internet - they will be the control-valve for all media - they will morph into settop boxes.
Maybe Carmack wants to get onto the advisory board to try to strongarm Microsoft into supporting OpenGL on XBox. At least that's what I'd like to believe. I'd like to believe that Carmack is still dedicated to cross-platform development, open standards, and a world where there's choice other than MS.
Obviously, by how Bungie got bought, Microsoft has some pretty compelling material supporting why developers should consider XBox. I hope that Carmack didn't bite that fishhook too.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
Re:Right guy (Score:1)
Re: Substantiated. (Score:1)
-Elendale (and while he's at it Carmack could share plans on the next id game too...)
Karma burn coming
As i meta-troll again
Let me get this straight... (Score:1)
_joshua_
Not news, and not surprising ... (Score:5)
Not only is this not news (Carmack IS on the board for XBox), but it's not surprising, since he is/was part of the committee that consults on DIRECTX.
And to top it off, it means NOTHING. So he's on the board? So what. Maybe they listen to him, maybe they don't. It's an ADVISORY board, and you can ignore advice.
All of that being said, The xBox folks are a bunch of smart people. I'm sure they'll listen to Carmack when he makes smart comments and suggestions. Frankly, Carmack might try to muscle people around so that everything works the way HE wants it to. What does it matter? It's a closed platform! But if his suggestions are good for the platform, then I'm sure he could be an asset.
Re:Death of OpenGL (Score:2)
He's got a vested commercial interest in OGL -- You don't think Quake III and Quake-engine will be ported to the XBox? He's there to make sure that his games run well, and his babies (Quake engines) continue to sell.
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