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Games Entertainment

Linux Alpha Centauri Demo 86

Posted by CmdrTaco from the games-people-play dept.
Jacek Fedorynski writes "Loki has released a Linux demo of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. It allows for 100 turns and weighs 25 MB." Yet another game I watched others play under Windows and wished I could participate in.
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Linux Alpha Centauri Demo More

Linux Alpha Centauri Demo

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  • I thought people had Alpha Centauri running in WINE? I know it was possible to get Starcraft running in WINE. What I really want to see on Linux is Half-Life -- is valve working on a port?

    Sometimes you by Force overwhelmed are.
  • How is the internet play? This game is the only reason I kept one of my boxes on windows. I waste countless hours on it. Soon I'll be able to turn that box into something more worthwhile, like an mp3 player.
  • I have enjoyed Sid Meier's games on Dos/Win platforms and this brings the games to my OS of choice. Loki are also helping Linux become mainstream with ports like this. For example many of my friends are windows users simply for the games. They enjoy the wide variety and abillity to play the latest and greatest games but lament the bugs and crashes. As more and more great games become available in linux this is a market that may also choose Linux as their OS of choice.

  • 'wished I could participate' (Score:4)

    by Speare ( 84249 ) on Saturday July 29, 2000 @05:21AM (#895562) Homepage Journal

    I'm sure there'll be a lot of people who think or moderate this as a flamebait, but it irks me to hear "I wish I could have..." from OS-zealots.

    Say I use Win2000. If a really cool game comes out for the Mac, and I want to play it, I am free (as in speech) to find somebody who has a Mac and wouldn't mind me trying out the game for a while. Personally, I don't think any game would be enticing enough to make me borrow a friend's Mac. But it's my choice.

    Say I use Palm. If a really cool p.i.m. comes out for the PocketPC/WinCE that would make my work more productive, I am free (as in speech) to find the bucks to get a WinCE. Personally, I don't think any p.i.m. would affect productivity enough to make me switch model of alkaline-draining widget. But it's my choice.

    Say I use a Ford. If a really cool dashboard accessory comes out for the Honda, ... But it's my choice.

    If you're a bigo^H^H^H^H exclusive fan of a certain platform, then accept that you're shutting yourself off from nine tenths of all that is out there on other platforms. When you can, get things moved over to your platform, but don't whine about the things you choose not to use.

  • Well, I guess it's simply because HLINQ (Half Life is not Quake). You'd figure the following:

    Well, Quake runs in Linux, Half Life is based on Quake code, when will Half Life run in Linux?

    Fraid not. There's maybe 1% of the original Quake code still in Half Life (the File handling mostly). And most of the Half Life developers were young developers who'd made it big working for Microsoft and then moved on to Bigger and Better things. So most of the Half Life code deeply depends on Microsoft Foundation Classes.

    So, simply put, it'd be a bitch to port. MFC's don't port nicely.. Now, I can't comment on Team Fortress II. I'd like to see Valve move towards more cross-platform code, but I might just be dreaming.
  • The game is what would be SMAC gold, ie SMAC+SMACX. Since SMACX was released not so long ago this means the port is not very outdated. (as opposed to if it had been only SMAC)
  • Valve is working on TF2 and their "Powerplay" initiative. I have not heard anything about a port of Half Life to linux. I did read about a couple of people getting half life to run in WINE believe it or not. Try looking here [sourceforge.net] for more info about this.

    That said, is it really so hard to leave a couple gigs of your hard drive as a windows partition so you can play some games occasionally? I mean seriously. If I want a good packet sniffer I KNOW I am gonna have to run it on some kind of unix. No one complains about that, and yet when people are told they will need to run windows to play games, they get all up in arms. Doesn't make sense.

  • Pricing vs performance (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Here in Stockholm, Sweden games for Mac and Linux are about 20-30% more expensive than Windows games, if you don't know where to buy them cheaper.

    This will be one of THE factor for retaining Windows unless you see a 20-30% performance gain real soon now for Linux.

    I saw the new performance figs for Quake3 on Linux. Great! On par is great but won't quite make for the masses (with the following price drop).

    Dr Ool

  • API's. (Score:3)

    by Jon Shaft ( 208648 ) on Saturday July 29, 2000 @05:59AM (#895567) Homepage Journal
    Linux, as well as other *nix's are desperately in need of a good gaming API. I know everyone has heard it about a thousand times, but are there any developers actaully working on a project yet? I've searched google and what not, but still don't see much activity in that aspect.

    I know it would be a long journey to build something similar to DirectX... Not as bloaty :) Picture a moduleded API, where it only loads part neccesary for the game to run. That would optimize a little better 'eh?

    Oh welps, maybe I'm just dreaming

  • Obligatory CmdrTaco Hypocrisy Flame (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Yet another game I watched others play under Windows and wished I could participate in.

    Yeah, too bad about Diablo II, huh?

  • Is is possible to use the demo with the Windows version of the game? I guess all the data should be fine. They usually just port the game executable. Has anyone tried it yet? After all I already paid for SMAC...
  • I already own the windows version, but I'm still getting it for Linux since it includes the "Alien Crossfire" expansion pack, and I want to support gaming on Linux.

    Alpha Centauri is definitely one the finest games I've ever played. It's one of those games that once you start playing you'll forget to eat, sleep and work... for days! If you like Civilization (1&2, not that Activision Power crap) or Master of Orion/Magic you're going to love Alpha Centauri. It's got excellent AI, good graphics and killer gameplay. It even runs relatively well on my old P200, and it doesn't require a 3D card.

  • A little bit late perhaps... (Score:4)

    by athmanb ( 100367 ) on Saturday July 29, 2000 @06:06AM (#895571)
    C'mon, it's sure nice to see more games coming out for Linux, but at this delay, it should be considered worse than nothing.
    Anyone who is into strategy games has already finished AC like 10 times, and unless you're a real Linux fanatic with lots of money to burn, no-one is gonna spend another 50$ for exactly the same game they already own.

    And if AC for Linux sells a few thousand copies (perhaps even less) while the Windows version sold probably around a million, it won't give numbers you'd like to show to your investors when trying to bring them to produce a Linux port.

    Just as I said, a one-year-late Linux port is probably worse than none at all...

    -------------------------
  • > Fraid not. There's maybe 1% of the original Quake code still in Half Life (the File handling mostly).

    This is silly. I heard Yahn Bernier describe the "new networking" in Half-Life at GDC, and guess what? It was the same old Quake II networking. I think many game companies have a little too much pride to say "oh, yeah, this is mostly Quake II with a modded software rendering engine and a big new bolted on scripting engine". NIH and all that.

    > MFC's don't port nicely..

    In the simplest case they could just use Wine, which has a very liberal license. If you actually want to port it, it's not too hard, just a lot of gruntwork. I ported 28k lines of MFC UI code in a few months.

    m.
    (who does not speak for his employer)
    --
  • not that Activision Power crap

    Isn't it amazing how you can tell straight away when a game is made by Sid Meyer? Call to Power has all the shortcomings of CivII plus a bigger map more tedious gameplay and a general feeling of a rip off. Every time Sid comes out with a game it is always an improvement on the previous one. Only Sid could come up with "designed units" and even "designed political system". Those lamers at Activision can't hold the candle to Sid's genius.

  • I'll Bite. (but only because I'm tired of this argument.)

    I use linux and am a bigo^H^H^H^H exclusive fan of it. I feel it is the best system available if you have the know how to use it. I reccomend that my roommate use windows, which she does, because the first time she had to spend 4 hours installing an application from a tarball, she would be reduced to tears. Windows does almost everything she could want and is pretty simple (in comparison) to use. That doesn't stop her from looking over my shoulder and saying "I wish I could do X like you're doing." At the same time, if I want to play a windowsmedia stream, I have to go to my windows box and use it. I really wish I could play those files on linux. I don't whine and poo about it, but I will be very glad when a program comes out that allows me to play those files (somebody let me know if there is one and I'm just on crack and can't find it!) Untill then, I'll continue to want to be able to use my linux box to perform the things I now have to go to my windows box to perform. Hopefully someone with more graphics know-how than I have will decide to code the application. Right now it's a choice between windows media and linux. I choose linux because I would lose the ability to do a lot of things if I went back to windows, and that has nothing to do with me wanting or not wanting to play windows media streams.
  • And if we're picking nits, the Q2 network code was mostly just the QuakeWorld network code :o)

    Seriously though, they didn't leave that much behind when they made Half Life. They started with the Quake code, worked on it for a while.. Eventually their license was extended to include the Q2 source code.

    I don't know if that was before or after they decided it was time to just rewrite the whole thing.. But I'll say it again, HLINQ. :o)

  • Re:'wished I could participate' (Score:3)

    by Schnedt McWapt ( 195938 ) on Saturday July 29, 2000 @06:36AM (#895576)
    what are you yawning about?

    I will not run any of these games until they're ported to DOS 2.0 so I can run them on my PC Junior, which has the maximum 128k of RAM in it!

    Grrrr! Grrrrr! Self-righteous-grrrrr!!!

    (heh)
  • I was think ing the same thing.
  • If you read the wine docs you can compile MFC now with winelib. And if you think about it winelib is just a api likle GTK+ so they couold make a native port.
  • Call to Power has all the shortcomings of CivII plus a bigger map more tedious gameplay and a general feeling of a rip off. Every time Sid comes out with a game it is always an improvement on the previous one.

    I understand Alpha Centauri was actually designed by Brian Reynolds, but Sid obviously influenced the game a lot since they both work under the same Firaxis roof. Brian and Sid are supposedly working together on the new official Civilization III. Let's hope they port it to Linux a little quicker than Alpha Centauri!

    As for Activision, I hear their new Civilization Call to Power II has over a hundred new units, but still uses the same game engine as the old one. Doesn't sound too promising.
  • I heard rumours that Brian Reynolds has left Firaxis. I'm not sure whether it's true or not.

  • Re:API's. (Score:3)

    by zatz ( 37585 ) on Saturday July 29, 2000 @06:50AM (#895581) Homepage

    Try what Loki is using: SDL [libsdl.org]. It handles video, audio, and input, and has ports for Linux, Win32, MacOS, and BeOS.

    As for only loading the parts you need to run... ahh, the wonders of demand paging. That is the job of the OS nowadays.

    The only real problems with writing Linux games, IMO, are immature support for hardware-accelerated OpenGL, and lack of library support for weird media types.

  • This raises an interesting question. I already have the Win32 version, will I have to pay for it again for Linux? That's the kind of stupid marketing trick some companies would try.

    I wonder, if this sort of thing becomes more common will companies charge the same for all platforms or will WinDoze software be cheaper because more people want it? Could they do that, or would it be discriminating against a minority (probably shouldn't say that) group?

  • Superb! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Lets all install linux so we can play this two year old game.
  • Some people don't have Windows though. Although very few of these are gamers.

    A lot of people buy games, but only play them from time to time.

    On the whole, of course you're right. The OS should be the least important part of the computer system for anyone, followed by RAM chip manufacturer and model of case. The refusal to use windows is more down to idealism, and a refusal to support a company like MS.
  • "The refusal to use windows is more down to idealism, and a refusal to support a company like MS."

    I know. Ever notice how companies are constantly punished for being successful?

    Bell is still a monopoly in Canada and I don't see Canadians complaining every day how much they suck.
  • SDL [devolution.com] is shaping up to be the Linux gaming API of choice. It's written by Loki's lead programmer and has been used by the company to port all sorts of games to Linux. It provides:

    • full sound, threads and timer capability
    • Linux, BSD, Windows, BeoS and Mac support
    • X, Framebuffer, svgalib, win32 DirectX and a whole lot more
    • support for OpenGL contexts (accelerated if your card is)
    • real-world tested by most of Loki's commercial ports
    • large suite of informative examples

    As a gaming API, it's currently unmatched IMHO...

  • I have not heard anything about a port of Half Life to linux.

    I have. They have said since they announced TF2 nothing short of basically, "No way in the world will we port to Linux or allow anyone else to." Search around LinuxGames.com or any of the half life (.net, .com, .org) sites for magazine interviews. It's unfortunate, as HalfLife is a great little game. I'd guess they might have made some sort of deal with Microsoft for insider information on Windows and they do not want to piss them off. But I'm a conspiracy nut.
  • Microsoft won't decide what shit is. Hardware comes first, then the software. Even if there is only Windows, hardware manufacturers still make the hardware THEN Windows supports it. Microsoft does't make additions to their OS's that don't even have hardware that exists to support it, trying to define the specifications themselves.

    The real monopoly that everyone should be going against is Intel (AOL too, but thats a whole nother paragraph :P ). They have the power to hurt the industry MUCH more than Microsoft ever could. They ARE the hardware, and if they force users into buying expensive things they don't need (RAMBUS) it can create a big problem. A $100 copy of Windows is one thing, but a $500 stick of 128 megs of RAM is another.

    And BTW, every phone company in England sucks ass, not just Bell. Paying per minute for the Internet is the norm there.
  • Well, the reason for paying for it twice is because we have to pay loki for porting it to linux. And i'm sure loki has to pay royalties to the company who made the original game.

    That said, I'm not going to buy it again because I'm not exactly wealthy. If I want to play it I'll just boot up my windows partition. Sorry Loki.

    There should be some way that owners of the original can get a rebate on the linux version. Loki should not have to pay royalties for those who are buying it a second time.

  • The opposite here in the US, My experience with Loki's linux games are that they are cheaper than the windows equivalent. Quake 3 was the exception to the rule, but I got Heavy Gear 2 very soon after it was released on Linux at Fry's electronics(big here in California) for 29 bucks. While I was there I saw Myth2 and CivCTP going for the same price. And The Solitaire game was going for 19.
    treke
  • He did leave. Brian Reynolds, Tim Train and others left Firaxis to create Big Huge Games. Reynolds was the designer for Colonization, CivII, and Alpha Centauri. He was supposed to be the designer for CivIII, then he left. It fell to Tim Train and then he left. So it's back in Sid Meier's hands. Look for it sometime next year. Also look out for Sid Meier's Dinosaurs sometime later this year or early next year.
  • OffT: Why is the parent poster here Score: 0? It shouldn't be. Grr...

    OnT: It seems silly to me. Valve rewriting Quake in MFC because they can't understand the original?

    Sounds like they need a person named John Carmack to help them.
  • Linux is not gonna be the OS of choice for gamers until the games start coming out for it at the same time or sooner than they come out for windows. This is the same thing I always used to tell my mac friends. They told me I should get a mac, I pointed out that there were few games for it and I mainly used my computer for games at the time. They protested "but Starcraft is out for Mac!" etc., to which I could only say, "Great, I'm very happy for you, but I already beat that game A YEAR AGO when it came out on PC!"

    The very same cutting edge mentaltiy that many people think would drive gamers to Linux will in fact drive them away from it if they have to wait a year or more for the newset games to be released. They want to play new games NOW and if that means using windows then that's what will happen.

  • It ran on my friend's 486 DX2 66, sure it took like 10 minutes per turn in the later years but it was playable.
  • Also, if I am not mistaken, Gabe Newell (sp?) who runs Valve is a former Microsoftie and I wouldn't be surprised if he still has friends/connections/co-conspirators there. Also, the PowerPlay initiative valve is leading may involve Microsoft (I am not sure about this but it would not surprise me) and Valve needs to have MS on board if powerplay is gonna pan out. So your theory that they don't want to antagonize MS is more plausible than it might at first seem. :)
  • I don't think it was that they didn't understand the original so much as it didn't do hardly anything they wanted it to do. The animation system was much crappier than half life's, the texturing was not as good, the lighting was not as good, it had no scripting, etc. etc.

    I have played Q1, Q2, and HL extensively and if no one had told me I would not have guessed that HL is built on quake because it looks and feels so different...

  • If you are gonna be idealistic and refuse to use windows that's your right. However, in sticking to your idealism you must know that you will have to pay certain prices. In this case that means getting to play games a year late, if ever.

    I have no problem with idealists but whiny idealists annoy me. "Oh boo hoo I can't play Alpha Centarui or Half Life etc.." You knew what you were getting into when you wiped your disk and stuck linux on there. Or you should have.

    *Disclaimer* This ranting is not directed at the parent poster in particular but more at all the whiny idealists I know are out there somewhere :)

  • i love alpha and civ as well i remmember playing the origonal civ back on the old 286s at middle school it was our assignment to play it lol great story /. worthwile ill be looking forword to this games release

  • Oh, like Quake 3 Arena??? (Score:5)

    by SvnLyrBrto ( 62138 ) on Saturday July 29, 2000 @09:19AM (#895599)
    >Linux is not gonna be the OS of choice for gamers
    >until the games start coming out for it at the
    >same time or sooner than they come out for
    >windows.

    Do you read John Carmack's .plan updates? Apparantly not. Try going back in his .plan archives to the very end of Quake 3's development. You'll see something intresting.

    See, iD released the golden masters for the Linux, Macintosh, and windoze versions of Quake3 ON THE SAME DAY!!! That was Carmacks plan for many months prior to the release of Quake 3. But look closer at the .plan... You will see where he mentions that, despite the golden masters being delivered simultaniously, the companies involved in the distrobution, production, etc. had let it be known to iD that they planned to INTENTIONALLY drag their heels on the Mac and Linux versions, and see to it that they didn't hit the stores until WELL after the windoze version did.

    Loki and MacSoft do great work. But entire distrobution / production / retail chains they are not.

    Particularly telling is the fack that Loki had the production CDs completed by their own supplier, but the company supplying the packaging was intentionally witholding, from Loki, all of the packageing materials (the box, manual, jewel case, etc.) Loki worked around this by shipping Quake 3 CDs alone to those who ordered directly from them, and sending the packageing materials later. But if you perfer to shop at a conventional store, you were SOL.

    Now, an exercise for the reader:

    Who, in the technoogy industry, has a vested intrest in making alternative operating systems look bad by delaying the Macintosh and Linux versions of software, as opposed to the windoze version? Who has the power to bully the distrobution chain into bending to his will? And who has shown absolutely no restraint in the abuse of that monopoly power?

    john

    Resistance is NOT futile!!!

    Haiku:
    I am not a drone.
    Remove the collective if

  • Nobody really cares about making Linux "the OS choice for gamers", the point is to provide games for people who run Linux for whatever other reasons, usually because it's unix. (And it certainly isn't a "cutting edge mentaltiy"!)

    I'm not sure where this attitute that Linux has to be the premeire OS for Gamers to be successful comes from. Perhaps the "Gamers" believe themselves to be the center of the universe?

    Truth is, these gamer kids spend a lot of money, but they don't give a crap about the features of a unix OS, much less any OS that hasn't been comprimised to hell for game purposes (and that includes Windows 2000). They are going to be on Wintendo until Microsoft phases it out, or the rest of the world comes to it's collective senses and switches to something else. Nobody's pandering to them, or at least they shouldn't be.

    Anyway, the econ lesson is: there's not enough gamers in the world to give a game the really huge sales numbers companies hope for (Alpha Centuri, Quake III, Starcraft, etc). When a game has saturated the "gamer" market and the "casual game playing Windows user" market, it can move on to the Mac and Linux market to get even more casual users. Quake shipped simutanously because id make the correct assumption that it would be so successful that it should be developed multi-platform in the beginning. Most other companies aren't so bold.

  • Going and stealing copy of Windows would just lower my opinion of someones ideals than if they broke down and bought a copy of Windows for the sole purpose of playing half-life. I have a windows parition on my system with only three applications. Half Life, The Realmagic DVD player, and Winzip. Why should someone be willing to bend on the principle of using Linux software if it means stealing from those who have worked on the software. It's great that people write Free Software, I release everything I write that I can, but it is still legal to sell software.

    You have two choices that wouldn't compromise your position as a free software or fair competition advocate

    1. Don't play the game
    2. Get a legal copy of Windows

    Getting a legal copy of Windows isn't that difficult anyways, unless you built the computer yourself(a possibility) you probably already have a license for some version of Windows.
    treke

  • That doesn't stop her from looking over my shoulder and saying "I wish I could do X like you're doing."

    Er, just of curiosity, what "X" does she ever wish she could do that Linux does? I can't think of single thing, except maybe virtual desktops (whoop-de-doo).


    --

  • I had much the same thoughts as the parent poster. I think his main point is that most of those who say "I wish I could..." actually *can* do whatever they're bemoaning. As for your roomie - if she truly desired to do what she says, she would. She could install Linux and then do what you're doing. What she's really saying is, "It would be convenient at times if I could do what you're doing, but it's not important enough to me to motivate me to take action to do that sort of thing."

    As for the original blurb on this topic - they *could* play SMAC if they *really* wanted to. Just buy a copy of Win 95/95 ($90), install, and then install SMAC and enjoy. Given the cost of hardware and games ($30-$50 each), $90 isn't too much extra to be able to play games they allegedly really want to play.

    This wishing is a far different thing than the "I wish I could play b-ball like Michael Jordan" or "I wish my apps had no bugs so I woudn't have to reboot Win98 periodically" There's nothing I can do about either of those desires.

    But anyone who is knowledgable enough to get Linux working, can certainly install windows to play a game.
  • (First - I'm not trolling or flamebaiting.)

    I borrowed SMAC from a friend not long ago, and at the time he couldn't find the instructions. Regardless, I installed it and spent a night playing it. Having little idea what exactly I was doing, I pressed buttons, followed the guides, and generally pressed "Do it" when a advisor-type window popped up.

    After several hours of playing, learning more how it worked, making some purposeful decisions, but generally just clicking "OK" whenever I could, I was clearly in the lead, with about 1/5 of the game time left.

    At that point I quit. It just became tedious, and I felt that if I could just say OK to all the default options and be consistently in the lead of the game, then this wasn't going to be a very interesting game in the long run.

    So do people really like clicking "OK" for 10 hours, or was I missing something big? Are there more challenging computer players that require you to actually make decisions (and make you play the game, instead of watching the game play itself)?
  • There are 10 different ones in progress and each are incompatibe with each other and still alpha code :)
  • And there's even a SourceForge project to create an easy setup module. I've played it; it runs very well.

    -John

  • ...especially since CmdrTaco has revealed that he plays Diablo II on a Windows box quite often...
  • > I have put my sperm out on the GPL. ... I have also made it Open Source for all you LinuxChix out there.

    I know a Big Biker Dude who is demanding to see the source of your sperm, which you of course must deliver to him since you're distributing it under the GPL.

    He said he wanted to make certain moderations to your source, but I didn't ask for any details, because I'm not sure I really want to know.

    --
  • Probably not. And if you could, why would you want to? How is Loki going to make any money if no one buys their games, instead wanting a free conversion from the Windows to Linux version?
    _____
  • Linux is not gonna be the OS of choice for gamers
    I agree. Up until a short while ago you had to use WINE to get some of them running. The Linux-native support for accelerated 3D is only now making progress so you can have the benefit of nifty hardware built for games.

    but I already beat that game A YEAR AGO when it came out on PC!
    So... either pay top-dollar for the PC version of the game or wait a little longer and pay less for the non-PC version... I know when to spend my hard-earned money -I have to w.o.r.k for it- and buy a game I really like... After my PC-oriented friends have already shown me it really is a great game.

    They want to play new games NOW
    Right! That is their kick and rush and my hobby is to spend money and precious time on other things and goodies.
    I only buy if I really - Really - REALLY like it.

    Yes, I do keep a 2G W98 partition for some things that have not yet been transmuted to Linux, and also for some programs that do not come with a good looking-working graphical interface. I admit it ... I Am Addicted To G.U.I.'s and I don't care if it has a button or a checkbox by any other 'name'
    I cannot stand the over-complicated commandline-driven setup procedures some packages want me to follow: Way to much typing to do and too much work for my two lazy digits I use for it.
    I do not understand why anyone could be proud of the fact that he/she/it can type a 500-letter commandline, let alone commit it to memory.

    [/OffTopic]
    Linux IS a great O.S.
    Linux IS versatile
    Linux IS Greased Lightning fast
    Linux IS Good
    Linux IS Easy To Install (when they started adding menu-driven setup programs)
    I Do Not Want To Read A Zillion Tons Of Documentation To Use My PC! I Want To Use It And Have Someone Else Handle The Technicalities Of Making It Run. Just Like I Use My Hammer And Screwdriver!

    I have not yet tried to install games like Q2 on my Linux-box because I am afraid I will have to wade through a gazillion lines of readme and howto. If someone could point me to a good game (like A.C.) and assure me "This game installs and runs as easy as on a windo$ PC" [i.e. with the aid of a GUI menu] I would like to try.

    {squawk} Polly wants a cookie!

    ---
    Free ?! Does that mean I can't get a Discount ?!
  • Umm...then download Freeciv [freeciv.org] and stop your bitchin
  • I've got a new point of view: Pirate Windows, and use Linux, but do it because you're a dirty bastard! Not only do you enjoy the freedom and ability to reap off other peoples' work in Linux, but you also embark the dark-side glee of stealing off Microsoft's work! No rationale, just pure selfish greed. Get both your OS's free, one as in speech, the other as in beer, and live the good life like every other hoodlum! :-D
  • Actually it's the "alien crossfire addon" that only came out a few months ago. Besides, I would prefer to see quality, rather than "NEW" games ported to Linux first.
  • > So most of the Half Life code deeply depends on Microsoft Foundation Classes.
    Could you please explain to me why a 3d Shooter would depend on the MFC, which is a widget set and can roughly be compared to, say, GTK or QT? Maybe it depends on DirectX or a subset of it (DirectDraw, Direct3D, ...) - but on the MFC? *wondering*

    nc

  • Hello everyone. My name is Andrew Henderson, and I have been the lead programmer on SMAC/SMACX at Loki. I've seen from many of the posts that there is some enthusiasm over the Loki port of Alpha Centauri, and I'm very glad to see it. This project has been stealing our evenings and weekends for quite some time now, and I'm glad to finally see it come to a close.

    There are a few things that I think anyone interested in this port of Sid Meier's Planetary Pack should know:

    1. A PPC port is very unlikely.

    I'd like to apologize to all the PPC users out there. I'd love to see SMAC on the PPC platform, but there is just too much involved in moving our codebase from Intel to PPC. There are roughly 25,000 lines of Intel assembly in SMAC, making the convertion a major undertaking. SMAC has specialized asm blitters for sprites, self-modifying asm for rendering the voxel vehicle units, and a complete asm texture mapping engine for rendering the landscapes. The costs in terms of both manpower and time in doing a PPC port are very steep.

    2. SMAC/SMACX will most likely run on FreeBSD.

    While it is not officially supported, we have gotten beta versions of SMAC to run on a FreeBSD box that has the Linux compatibility kernel module installed. If you have a FreeBSD box and would like to try out the SMAC/SMACX demo, I encourage you to download it. There is a good possiblity it will run for you.

    3. Many bugs in the Win32 version of SMAC and SMACX have been fixed in the Linux version.

    Well over a hundred bugs that were in the Win32 version have been fixed in the Linux version. For those people that want justification for purchasing the Linux version if they already have the Win32 version, here it is. This leads me to my last point:

    4. The Linux/*BSD communities have some of the best beta testers out there.

    I have to admit that I'm very impressed with the quantity and quality of bug reports Loki has received during the beta process of porting the game. Our beta testers were very persistant in finding and reporting bugs. The beta folks were an invaluable help in porting the game, and I'd like to thank them for their incredible time and effort.

    All in all, I'd judge the port of Sid Meier's Planetary Pack a success. The programmers had fun, the beta testers had fun, and I hope that whoever tries out the demo of the game will enjoy it.

    After all, we're all in this for the fun, aren't we?

    Andrew Henderson
    Programmer
    Loki Software

  • 1. A PPC port is very unlikely. I'd like to apologize to all the PPC users out there. I'd love to see SMAC on the PPC platform, but there is just too much involved in moving our codebase from Intel to PPC...

    Actually, the PPC port of Alpha Centauri exists. Yes, I know you were referring to linux on a PPC box, I just wanted to be difficult.

    Though if you hate macOS, I can't see why it wouldn't run on darwin...
    --
  • I am getting pissed at CmdrTaco's constant complaining "Linux is not supported by this game blah blah blah!" Look,there are TONS of OS out there and he thinks Linux should be number one priority, linux rules, yes it does. How about this, if you want to play a fucking game get Windows, right now Windows IS THE GAMING OS. Not linux, not mac, but Windows!

    Instead of making yourself look like a flaming idiot, why don't you organize your post and come up with a smarter way of saying what you want?

    I understand Windows is 'the' gaming platform now. What is Linux? Is it the 'office' platform? Is it the 'development' platform? Or is it the 'waste' platform? What is mac's aim? Sound and video? A lot of the Linux developers are aimed at making Linux the 'ultimate' platform. That's normal for advocates. I'm sure there are people who feel the same way for FreeBSD and Atheos (sp?)...

    Why should we get Windows if we want to play a game? Why is it soo hard to make a port for multiple platforms instead of one silly unstable platform? It's about time people migrate to a different solution instead of what Microsoft brainwashed is right. I know Taco is hypocritcal when it comes to games. He posts Diablo 2 and how he's purchased it after it's been out for .0005 seconds, yet when it comes to Alpha Centauri he 'wishes' he could participate in.

    Please rethink your posts before you smack submit.

  • Some people are willing to face the "or else". It's easy to stand up for a principle if there's no opposition.
    treke
  • I clicked on this article to flame about the 'wished i could participate bullshit.' Thank you for already doing it.

    What if the headline came along "koules ported to MS windows -- Wow finally I can participate in this great network game!"

    The response would be somewhat different - something to the effect of "why didnt you just get linux?"

    What is especially ironic is how CT was spooging over the Diablo II release for *ahem* windows. I am seriously starting to question /.'s honesty in its bias. I've always enjoyed slashdot because of this small journalistic bias but to *LIE* is a bit stupid. If CT has never played Alpha Centauri then how would he know it was so great? Reviews? Talk about bias!

    ~GoRK

  • Call to Power may have a better user interface (far superior graphics, at least... not sure about the sound yet, since I've only played the beta of SMAC). But as a strategy game I have to say that SMAC is much better.

    actually, i'd rather play good ol civ2 over either one of em

    There are a lot of people who agree with that. ;-)

  • Just buy a copy of Win 95/95 ($90)

    Win95/98 only costs $90 if you're upgrading from an older version of Windows. If you're buying a version of Windows 95 or 98 that you can actually install (as opposed to upgrading to) then it's twice that.

    Oh, and don't forget that you need to buy a DOS. Of course, you can get that for free these days (I haven't tried installing Windows 3.1 on top of FreeDOS yet, but I've done it on top of Caldera's DR-DOS).

    But anyone who is knowledgable enough to get Linux working, can certainly install windows to play a game.

    A non-networked game, at least. Installing and configuring networking software on Windows is potentially very painful. Especially compared to Linux. (On the other hand, if I knew as much about Windows as I did about Linux, it might not have been so hard. But for me at least, it was extremely frustrating. I couldn't imagine my parents getting it to work at all.)

  • unless you see a 20-30% performance gain real soon now for Linux.

    I don't think the performance ratings are terribly important for a turn-based strategy game like SMAC. ;-)

    However, the Linux port of SMAC fixes some (I don't know how many) of the bugs in the Windows version. So you are getting better value from the Linux port of SMAC than you get from the Windows port of SMAC. Whether that's worth the extra money you have to pay in your locale, only you can decide.

  • SMAC has about 7 different difficulty settings. You were probably on the easiest one. You'd have to try to lose on that setting.

    Next time you try the game, play on one of the middle-ish settings. That'll give you some challenge.

  • where is the ppc demo, if I might ask?

    Ports to non-x86 platforms will probably be severely delayed (if they're done at all). Sam Lantinga says there are 25000 lines of inline assembly in SMAC, so porting to non-x86 architectures will be painful to say the least.

  • "Oh, and don't forget that you need to buy a DOS. "

    huh? You don't need to buy DOS separately. Win95 and 98 full install do just that - full install. I had forgotten that the $90 was upgrade. Full I think is ~$130. Nonetheless, given the total system cost and games over a period of time, it's not outlandish. People spend that much for a N64 or PS1 just to be able to spend $50-$60 per game to play them.

    As for networking windows - Using an average retail kit, I was able to setup simple 2 PC LAN in a couple of hours, with no major headaches. It was really quite easy. I have no doubt that it could have been a nightmare, but it wasn't. And from I've read, installing Linux can be easy and can be a nightmare. Again - if you can install Linux, I have little doubt you could install win98, and even network it.

    All in all, needing Win98 to play games is not a significant obstacle if you've already got an intel/amd-based PC.
  • Ahh... that was probably it. My friend has since found the manual, so maybe I'll give it another go later on.
  • There is a version of Railroad Tycoon II that has been available for Linux for quite some time. Granted it isn't Alpha Centauri, it is a good thinking/strategy game and does pull you in.
  • a one-year-late Linux port is probably worse than none at all

    I disagree. These are all just baby steps in the right direction. Otherwise we're stuck with the chicken/egg problem:

    1. There aren't any good games for Linux because of #3.
    2. Nobody uses Linux to play games because of #1.
    3. Developers won't make games for Linux because of #2.
    At least by making some games (even old ones) we are working to break the cycle.

    Besides, I kind of like some of these old games.

    --

  • Yet another game I watched others play under Windows and wished I could participate in.

    Okay, I'm sure this has been said a hundred times in this story by now, but: cut the crap, Rob. We all know that you have a Windows box, and if it can run Diablo II, it can run Alpha Centauri. As I've said before, these comments that are meant to insinuate that you never use any Microsoft products are childish and are not doing anything postive for the perception of GNU/Linux, OSS, or yourself. They also do nothing to harm the "evil empire". The immature tone in some of your recent stories has led me to believe that your UID really has been cracked. Honestly, what was your motivation for saying that? Did you think it was "interesting" or "insightful"? Or, like so many moronic teenagers on this site, did you feel a need to say something, anything, but didn't have anything meaningful to contribute? Even a solemn "Schweet." would have been better. There's no need to push it down our throats that you prefer GNU/Linux to Windows, and making comments like that is silly because, once again, we all know you play other Windows games. Diablo II, Everquest, older Quakes... cut the crap.

    HTH!

    (Tip to moderators: reasonable moderation for this comment would be either "Flamebait" or "Troll". HTH too!!)

    ---------///----------
    All generalizations are false.

  • APIs -- Such a Thing Already Exists (Score:3)

    by SmiloidalManiac ( 82461 ) on Saturday July 29, 2000 @09:42PM (#895630)
    You may want to check out the Simple DirectMedia Layer at www.libsdl.org [libsdl.org]. Essentially, it is a wrapper for cross-platform development -- aside from having multiple language bindings, it currently supports Win32 (DirectX), Linux (OSS / DGA) and BeOS. Not only that, but it abstracts basic system-level functions to minimize porting requirements.
  • There are a few things that I think anyone interested in this port of Sid Meier's Planetary Pack should know:

    You left out "What networking protocol does it use for multiplay?" I don't suppose it's compatible with either DirectPlay (Win) or NetSprockets (Mac)?

    There are roughly 25,000 lines of Intel assembly in SMAC, making the convertion [to PPC] a major undertaking.

    This conversion has already been done, by Brad Oliver [deja.com] at Westlake Interactive [westlakeinteractive.com]. I realize there would still be technical hassles converting from Mac APIs, not to mention licensing and payment issues. But don't say that it's just too hard to do.

  • >Bell is still a monopoly in Canada and I don't see Canadians complaining every day how much they suck.

    I disagree - my adsl connection has been great with very little downtime. As long as you don't have to talk to tech support (where do they find those people anyways??) I certainly can't complain. Besides, I believe they are/have upgraded the connection speeds to 2meg down/ 512 or so up. (Can't remember where I saw that, on some US gaming site I believe...) After upgrading to win2k from 98 my connection speed has gone through the roof (much better tcp/ip stack). Wish I could convince my better half to go with linux though...
  • You work for an internet company.. you must be able to steal about 10 copies of Windows from work without anyone even caring. It's easy to install too, just click next about a dozen times, I've heard they trained a monkey at the Bronx Zoo who can do it, but for legal reasons they could not issue him an MSCE.
  • I know it's probably asking too much of John Carmack, after all he and Id have done for Linux (and don't think it isn't appreciated, Guys!) - but maybe Id should simply put it in their publishing contracts that the Linux version MUST be released in the retail outlets at exactly the same time as the Windoze version. A company like Loki could never get away with this, but who could stand up to Id? What publisher would want to risk losing the publishing contract for a game like "Doom III" just because they insisted on delaying the Linux version? They'd stand to lose a lot of money, and for what?

    I hate to ask for "more!" after the pioneering work by the Id crew, but if we let the game industry treat Linux users like second-class citizens, we'll never get any respect. I think Id should put their foot down and say, "Look, you'll release the Linux version at the same time as the Windows version, or we'll give the deal to any one of the many other publishers who'd love to have our games on any terms."
  • Carmack was quoted as saying he wasn't pleased with the delay of the release and encouraged people to hold off purchasing the Linux version of the full release until it actually shipped rather than buying the Windows version and downloading the Linux binaries.
  • Well, if your hammer and screwdriver could do everything Linux can, they'd probably have 2000-page manuals...
    Is it so difficult to understand?
    If I buy a hammer I buy it so I can ram some nails in a piece of wood. I do not want a fat manual telling me how to cut ['n'paste] down a tree, how to grep with a chisel the form of the stem, how to process chemicals and stuff to make the grip, how to fsck raw iron ore into steel, how to make the steel into a head in a lot of different forms, how to mount the head to the stem etc, etc, etc ...

    All I want is for some genius to hand me an easy understandable form of (preferrably Graphic)
    • USER
    Interface in the form of menu's or whatever so I can focus on the decision wether I do or do not want a specific feature.
    I concur Linux is not a screwdriver (l.i.n.a.s (now there is an acronym for an OS)) and there are many vital decisions to make before it runs at all (processor, graphics card, nic, ad infinitum). I d.i.d read a lot of FAQ's and HowTo's before I even started building my [beloved, cherised] Linux box. I did so because I want to know what goes on inside. Now I realise this is a bit of a parrotdox/H/H/H paradox because to know you have to learn and go deeper than a few menu-driven choices.
    I have watched Linux grow from a commandline/makefile driven (nearly) Guru-level toy/OS/sandbox to it's present glory. It has taken Linux this many years to mature [like good single highland malt] and now is the time it is ready for the general public.
    Remember when only experts could Windo$ so it would run with any hope of efficiency/speed ? Nowadays any half-wit can install it just by thinking a little about what they want and making a few simple choices.

    Like windo$ I want to be able to use Linux 'Out Of The Box' with a minimum amount of hassle and have it run a few office-related programs (like Star Office).
    Unlike windo$ I want to be able to dive into the [let's call it] expert-mode and tweak and fiddle with the software just to see if I understand it at all or to squeeze a bit more speed/power from my hardware.

    To get back to the screwdriver analogy; I like to use it with the same level of incompetent/level-zero/thoughtless/user attitude that is really common in today's offices when it comes to computers/copiers/faxes in general. I also like to dive in deeper when something is of interest/use to me.
    Some like to just drive a car, others want to know how to check tire-pressure, oil-level, etc. and there are others that want to know how to fix that rattle in the engine and with a car you pick yopur own level of sophistication. With Linux you already need to know a lot more and yes... to drive a car you have to take lessons and an exam... and yes to use a computer/xerox/fax you have to read at least two pages of the manual.
    Why does everybody have to make belief that computers are/should/stay a really complex piece of
    • equipment
    that you have to go back to school before you can even remotely hope to reach te level of knowledge where it does not only take more time to do a job than you could save with it ???

    When games get ported to Linux it is a good thing because:
    A. with Linux you have a s.t.a.b.l.e machine
    B. with Linux you have the opportunity to even enhance the game-experience/joy because it runs as well or better than it does on windo$
    C. with linux you have the opportunity to change anything you think needs improvement
    D. with Linux ..... etc.etc.etc.

    The games ported to Linux are those that rise above the crop. It will get interest from them that really enjoy a good game.
    Linux advocacy is all in the mind of the recipient: If you like a particular brand of chocolate and only buy that brand... Then when you taste another brand you have ignored until now and find you like it better... Would you stick with your previous choice ?
    Same with an OS I think

    {squawk} Polly wants a cookie !
    ---
    Free ?! Does that mean I can't get a Discount ?!

  • I recall this very distinctly. Is what something Id was actually unhappy about.

    They did purposely delay the release of the Windows->Linux conversion patches until well after the Linux version hit the stores. This was to try to get people to hold off on buying the Windows version and simply wait for the Linux version to show up.

  • You can get it with a new hard drive or motherboard. Just see a vendor in your area.
    treke
  • I've always said that I will remove Windows from my computer the day that I can play Alpha Centauri and play DVD's in Linux (without too much pain involved). Well, halfway there! :)

    But, now that I have both Alpha Centauri and the Alien Crossfire expansion pack for Windows, I don't think that I will shell out the money a second time for a Linux version (I assume that it won't be free). It would be nice to be able to get a port of a game you already own for free, or for a nominal fee.. like the cost of CD and shipping.

    I wonder, is any company doing that, or has ever done this before? I don't buy (or play) games very often, so I'm kind of ignorant when it comes to those issues.

  • all the way there... just tried livid last saturday, compiled smoothly, played the matrix same way... just get the developer tarball from www.linuxvideo.org, compile ac3dec, mpeg2dec and oms and have fun...
  • As good an arguement for not dual-booting as I've heard in a while.
  • There's a fourth point, though it's not related to the chicken-and-egg problem -- Few people feel they should be required to pay for quality software, because of course they're running a quality OS that they didn't pay for.

    Personally, I've bought Civ:CTP, RR2 (both from EBX, of all places!) and I've bought Q3 and Myth 2 straight from Loki. I fully support the commercial games market for Linux, and feel that only by buying these products will we ever have any chance of seeing more and original quality games for the platform.

    ...Paul


    --
    If it's not important, you can probably find it in...
  • This thread is too old to be read by anybody but you and me. Anyway...

    I agree. And I have also purchased some titles from Loki, as well as commercial software from other companies.

    I for one don't mind paying for my entertainment. (Don't even get me started on the mp3 thing!) And I don't mind paying for quality software if it meets my needs.

    --

  • windows 98 can cost anywhere between 130 and 250 dollars.

    Furthermore a couple hours is way to long to install a couple of ethernet cards. With there is no need to reboot(other than the one time to actually stick the card in) and I've done it in about 5minutes. Win98 is significant, because it sucks to dual boot. And you should at least get a seperate hard drive for it. Plus you have to bang your head on it because it take 2+ hours to get ethernet to work.

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