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Games Entertainment

Sony Playstation 2 for Over $1k [Updated -- $5K] 264

The Alpha noted this, but several others have told us as well that ebay is hosting auctions for several playstation 2's... some of which have broken a grand. Nice little profit margin there ;) Conspiracy theorists propose that many folks (Jon Doe, Retailers, or Sony!) are raking in huge profits on the things. Hope the system is worth it. [Updated 27 Oct. 2:15 GMT by timothy:] the3dmaniac writes: "I was just looking at the auctions for PS 2 systems at ebay and found this very disturbing sight. The craze has gone overboard, time to make some cash while it is still hot." Whoah -- check that price. Errr, so this would be the "premium" gasoline, sir?
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Sony Playstation 2 for Over $1k

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  • by schulzdogg ( 165637 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:41PM (#672111) Homepage Journal
    Some poor shmuck better enjoy their 2 weeks of coolness..
  • Sony are probably holding back supply to build the hype. Lines at stores, $1000 auctions etc.
  • by Fletch ( 6903 ) <`fletch' `at' `pobox.com'> on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:41PM (#672113) Homepage
    this one [ebay.com] sold for $14,999.00.

    more proof that all the wrong people have money to waste.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:43PM (#672114)
    Emotion Engine issues? Developers slow to code for it? I think not. I think this 'shortage' is a calculated move of Sony's part to cause a frenzy. We've seen it before: Furbys, Cabbage Path Dolls, etc.

    Believe me, Sony knows what they're doing, and they're loving every minute of this. I'll bet you there's a warehouse full of PS2s sitting somewhere in Japan, waiting to trickle into the US market from now until Christmas.

    Happy shopping! :-)
  • Here at cmu there are people offering them on our little buy/sell newsgroup. but $1000?! I wonder how high his $350 initial offering will get if I post this/a& gt; link. [ebay.com]
  • by tjackson ( 50499 )
    Who really wants one of these? Name one thing that this can do that the mid to high end computer can't do. I suppose at a ~$300 price it's pretty good... but $1000 is a lot to pay to be the first kid on the block with an overrated piece of hardware.
  • So, this absolutely has to be wrong, but, well, um.... they're going to have to pay hefty eBay fees anyway!

    PS2 for $15k?? [ebay.com]

    I'm really confused about this one...

  • by Foss_Eats_Sod's_Meat ( 246138 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:45PM (#672118)
    It used to be that a consoles success was gauged by its first day sales...
    Then by how many people were mugged for their new consoles on the way home on the first day of sales...
    Now the mark of a consoles success is relative to its grey import value on Ebay?

    Truly the internet has brought about a paradigm shift in console gaming....

  • by K. ( 10774 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:46PM (#672119) Homepage Journal
    "these ps2s are being sold at many times their
    retail price! Somebody, possibly the person
    selling them, must be making a profit!"

  • There is a sucker born every minute.. and eBay is out to show us that.. hehe.. oh well I guess some people have more money than patience... lets hear it for supply and demand..

  • OK when I got my first system (Atari 2600), I never would have guessed that one day we'd have console scalpers, now that's progress.

    Still I guess ebay beats fist fights at zellars for cabage patch dolls.

  • $1000?
    $2000+ was a common going price earlier today on ebay.
    for example, i saw bidding on a ps2 jump from ~$1400 to ~$2000 in less than a minute

    how many of the ps2 purchases were made just to be resold?
    should there be limits?
  • According to radio news, this morning, Sony is limiting it to 500K, with another 1.4M to be shipped prior to Christmas. Has more to do with parts supplies than cunning. Sony is taking a loss right now, due to costs and limited shipping prior to the holiday glomfest. You know they would want more on store shelves than this.

  • $15k .. hmmmm... Imagine the system I could build for that! Wanna talk clusters now? Wow PSX2 wouldn't stand a chance
  • by haystor ( 102186 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:50PM (#672125)
    hehe. sure, like the kidneys selling for $5 million.

    This guy just got stuck with some big ebay fees, on a sale he won't complete.

    Anyone with $15k to spend would have hopped on a jet to Japan, bought one, and flown back months ago.

  • by cecil36 ( 104730 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:53PM (#672126) Homepage
    What we see here at work is the basic economic law of supply and demand. When there's a limited number of PS2s on the market (I believe 500k units in the initial shipment), and demand for about ten times that amount, retailers and individuals looking for profit will cash in on that demand. If you want a PS2, my advice is to wait until around March or April of next year, and buy one then. The prices should have come down to more reasonable levels, there will be a larger selection of games available (plus the fact that a few of your favorite titles and series are likely to be in development for future release), and you won't have to fight any crowds at the store.

    I've heard a person in my German class today say that she was very close to attacking another person with a PS2, and walking off with his PS2 and taking it to the checkout line. If we have this kind of behavior and attitude by consumers at this time of year, imagine how bad it will be when you have everyone and his/her mother doing the same thing, not only for the PS2, but for every other "hot item" on everyone's Christmas wishlist.
  • Ow. That stings. 1-15k for a console?
    Here's an idea: why not offer several up, then wait for them to come on the mainstream market... it always takes ages for auction purchases to go through anyway, and you can just ship when the main shipments arrive. Or, following the conspiracy theorist's ideas, patent the concept and then sell it back to Sony for £10m or so...

  • At least I don't have to install Windows on my system just to play a game. Powerful console systems can lead to nice clean computer systems- no need to partition or clutter your system up with MS crap.
  • by talesout ( 179672 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:54PM (#672129) Homepage
    I just don't understand how demand for these things can be that big!

    Seriously, are there really people that think the game quality is going to be instantly better just because you can push a few more pixels. I just (and I mean just a couple of weeks ago) bought a N64 and will probably now consider buying the old Playstation (as the price will surely drop like a rock now). The older games are far more plentiful and there are a few that are even enjoyable to play. I find that in the first year or two of a new system there are very few games that are actually fun to play.

    Most of the games I see now are completely ridiculous when it comes to game-play. Sure, I suppose the system is great if you are really into all that "I have the latest available toy" sort of thing, but I think if you waited you would save yourself a bundle and get more enjoyable games to boot.

    Now I'm off to play the Bard's Tale II on my old trusty Apple IIgs (it's still more enjoyable than about 90% of the games I've seen in the past few years).
  • I should have gotten mine this morning, but Software Etc. screwed me over. Apparently, they presold too many units (I had a 5 month old reservation), and they couldn't supply them. Sony even discouraged retailers from preselling units. Anyone know how best to take action against such places? I'd love to know.

    I even wrote a mean article about this on Digital Theatre [dtheatre.com]
  • There's no shortage of people who don't honor bids on eBay. Notice how many bidders are first timers (with the shades.)

  • by Papa Legba ( 192550 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:55PM (#672132)
    We would all be lined up right now trying to get one.

    Never underestimate someones desires because they are not inline with yours. And don't tell them to get computers , eventually they would get curios about the online world and you would only be adding to AOL's stock and sucking away precious bandwidth.
  • by TBadiuk ( 14048 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @12:55PM (#672133)
    Check it out, every high bid has been made by the same person who has zero feedback. Wonder what Ebay's policy is on this.
  • I think this well establishes that the masses are a$$es....

    On a funny tangent, I saw two best friends have their nice lil splitting of ways. And why would these two friends of many years part? Very simply. Person A was called by Person B just as he was about to go inline, a call which lasted for a total of near 30 seconds. Person A then left to stand in line, and when it became his turn to get one, they had just sold the last one. Yup, the person in front of him got the last one of the store. Person A called up Person B, had a lovely lil tirade, and now these two former-friends are out and about spreading rumors.

    And they say video games don't dehumanize us.
  • The quality of a console is not defined by the hardware, but the games. So far I haven't heard anyone saying nice things about the PS2 already published (nor has anyone complemented the games coming out in the next few months). I'm sure it will be a good system given some time, but it isn't there yet.


  • ...I missed this [ebay.com]
  • for paying $35 for a used 2600 with five whole games.
  • I was able to get mine from the local virgin megastore. They pre-sold them as late as yesterday. For 100$ down yesterday i was able to get one today. They were selling it as a package only..it consisted of 1 core unit, 2 games, 1 dvd movie, 1 extra controller, 1 8mb mem card, and 1 dvd remote control..not a bad deal at 499$. Havent played it yet, but i saw madden and it looked INSANE!
  • You want to get ahold of the competition's hardware as quickly as possible, and if you have to drop a few extra grand to do that, it's no biggie at all.

    So I'd expect Sega or Bleem or someone would be happy to drop 15 grand to pre-preview a Playstation 2 and not think twice about it. Reverse Engineering efforts or Competitive Analyses are probably already underway.

  • I mean if you're really going to karma whore, you can't just stop at saying, "Product X should be open source." Granted, you get some credit for suggesting "hackers" would make such a platform great (of 1337, if you prefer), but in the modern jaded era of Slashdot Moderation, you have to go all out and use both barrels.

    Try it like this:

    The question I have, as I heard about plans for future expansions, is has anyone ever considered devloping an "open source" gaming platform? A system whose schematics and such are open for everyone and under which both commercial developers and hobbyists have the same capabilities. It might be interesting to see something like this. Think of all the peripherals you can think of, and think of hackers making some of them.

    Such a system could easily be made using a lightweight Linux kernal with optimized graphics code -- perhaps even capable of supporting OpenGL and/or DirectX. This would allow developers to jump-start their development with open standards.

    Also, while DVD and PS2 support is nice, USB and Firewire would be far superior standards for expansion.

    Such a system would offer tremendous advantages over Microsoft's still-vapor "X-Box". The openness of the platform would undoubtedly encourage development from third-party vendors and might even bring back the long-lost days of the small independent gaming software company. Certainly, with internet connectivity, the need to rely on under-the-table retail shelf-placement deals goes away.

    And, if all that wasn't enough, can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of these things?

    There. Plenty of "+1 Interesting/Insightful" fodder. Take it from an old pro, you'll get yourself up to the 50 cap in no time at all. Hope this helps.
  • you should revise that to say that if it ran ANY os... There'd be a lot more people lining up at wally world
  • Exactly, considering that they stand to gain a lot more by selling these at $300-$350 a pop than by waiting around for some other console to be a price competitor. Especially given the warning signs in the US economy regarding sales, consumer debt, and the general health of major retailers, this is not a good time to have potential buyers having to wait-- they might decide they can't afford it.
  • It's not broken $6000...that's what the person put for his opening price...
  • Thanks. I'll try harder next time.
  • this one sold for $14,999.00.

    more proof that all the wrong people have money to waste.

    Proof that "the wrong people" are morons. :-)

    Seriously, I'm suspicious about obviously over-the-top auction results. If you discount the moron factor, conspiracy seems plausible. Plant a few fake auctions for popular items that might get noticed, place some ridiculously high bids that will get noticed and hey presto, instant advertising. This would work for auction site and/or the manufacturer of the item: "I gotta get me some of that..."
  • by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @01:02PM (#672146) Homepage Journal
    IIRC eBay policy and various state laws give sellers rights to pursue bidders. It's a dangerous proposition to bid $250,000 on something you never intend to buy, particularly if the seller is so inclined to collect. A bid, according to the fine print, is a contract. Consider where this goes with the passage of law to for electronic signatures, should they apply in present or future.

  • Do you think any of these moron's have actually looked at the graphics?

    I was really pumped when I read the specs about outperforming the SGI servers, etc. I actually took a look at the graphics at the Sony store here in good ole SF, they blow. I'm sure people buy games for more reasons than graphics, but I'll stick to my computer for a while...

  • but I doubt many will actually receive their money. I have tried selling consoles and console related items on ebay and found that many of the bidders for them don't follow through, for whatever reason. Some actually bid for the same item in 10 or so auctions, then just pay the lowest (or first) winning bid. I have a feeling that's because many of the bidders have the mentality of the console market... 12 year olds.

    BTW, many of the PS2 autions of $500+ are being bid by the same person... "cillbosby". Just food for the conspiracy theorists.

  • Or is that far enough off that it will be an issue for the PS3
  • Just wait until IBM sues for copyright infringement on teh "PS2" name, then we will see how much these go for.

  • PlayStation 2 [amazon.com]
    Dreamcast [amazon.com]

    thank you.

  • You know, if I had that kind of money to burn, I'd spend it on useful things.

    Why, why, why would someone pay 1600$ for a PSX2 that costs 200$ the manufacture and sells for 300$? That's absolutely retarded.

    Damn rich smucks.

  • I would think that for that amount of money they could con some poor P.I. to steal one from Sony R&D.

    They can also buy an import too.

    It's not worth $15,000 when you can wait a week and get one for $300, provided you did the preorder or camped out.

    Frankly, I'm not sure if it is worth $300 as is.
  • I was going to respond in anger, but then I realized that my original comment is going to get moderated down, and your response is going to get moderated up. So, no matter what kind of response I give you, I'm going to have that response (this post) moderated down as well. So, in the effort to be fair:

    Bend over bitch, I've got something for ya!
  • This a cut&paste of a post I made on the Shugashack when Sony announced day 1 supply would be cut from 1 to 1/2 million:

    As anyone who's taken any intro to economics class (much less an econ major like myself) could tell you, there's something wrong with this picture. On the very first DAY of PS2 availability, we see there's at least 1,000,000 people willing to pay whatever Sony's charging to get one (let's call it $250, cuz I don't know the real figure). Yet, Sony only has 500,000 of the things to sell at that price. Now from the consumer's standpoint (particularly for the ppl who won't get one), the ideal situation would be to just make more of the damned things, and I think that's what Sony would be doing if they could, so let's assume they can't. You're Sony, you've got this HUUUUUUUUGE demand for your product, and can barely meet half of it. What do you do? You raise the price! If Sony jacks the PS2's price up to $350, will a lot of ppl not buy it, at least not on preorder? Of course, that's the Law of Demand at work. The practical question in this particular situation is, will enough people choose to do without so that any of those 500,000 units don't get sold? If not, then do it!

    If I was a Sony shareholder, I'd be pissed too, cuz these guys are too stupid to raise the price on the goddamn thing! If the price was increased $100, and every unit still sold, that'd be $50,000,000 (yes, FIFTY MILLION) more in revenue!!!

    On the other hand, it sure is nice for consumers that Sony's never thought to hire an economist...


    These people who are now reselling PS2 units for like $1000, I applaud most heartily. Even though they ripped off my idea (hehe), they're moving goods from lower valued uses to higher valued uses, which is what capitalism is all about ;)

  • Then somebody ought to be fired, becuase they just could have preordered and got 50 of them.

    Steve M

  • by rlowe69 ( 74867 ) <ryanlowe_AThotmailDOTcom> on Thursday October 26, 2000 @01:12PM (#672164) Homepage
    Anyone with $15k to spend would have hopped on a jet to Japan, bought one, and flown back months ago.

    A-hem! Not if that person wanted to play Region 1 DVD's. ;)

  • So I'd expect Sega or Bleem or someone would be happy to drop 15 grand to pre-preview a Playstation 2 and not think twice about it.

    Sega would not wait until the North American release to reverse engineer the system. You have to give them a little more credit than that, I'm afraid.


  • Sony is spending a ton on advertising for a product that most people won't be able to buy. All their hype will blow over by the time they can actually get units to market in quantity (and maybe by then the word will be out that all the launch games are pretty lackluster). Unless they are stupid, I can't believe this is all part of their plan.

    The PS2 has a lot of problems. In Japan, the units are selling, but not the games. They are being purchased as DVD players. This is killing developers. Making a game for the complicated, dual processor machine is very expensive. No one is getting a return on their investment. Perhaps things will improve as developers become familiar with the architecture, but it is not the case now.

    And now Sony has screwed up its US launch by not having enough product on the store shelves. I would guess that the problem is not stupidity; Sony didn't want this to happen and tried to avoid it. But the factories couldn't get up to speed in time for Christmas. And in the US, that is the best time for launching a product like this. It is a date that is set by cultural tradition and cannot be pushed back. They were faced with the choice of missing Christmas or launching without enough units, either way they're screwed.
  • D#$~!!! I looked on eBay last night, and saw some that closed out for $500. I figured that it wasn't worth spending 6 hours standing in line at Best Buy for that kind of money. Silly me. This is the last time I waste my money in the stock market. From now on, my portfolio is going to be exclusively hot toys.

  • I just don't understand how demand for these things can be that big!

    I've read many articles about the PS2 in the last year. The one that stuck out the most in my mind was the one that said that the PS2 was selling well in Japan because it not only could play old PS games, but because it was a DVD player too.

    This is Sony's main selling point, and it's working like a charm. "Who cares if the system costs a hundred or two extra .... you can play DVD's on it!"

    Also, if you play the PS as much as my friends do, your PS has probably seen better days. The PS2 is an excellent way to replace the old system.


    PS> I swear I don't work for Sony. ;)

  • by gad_zuki! ( 70830 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @01:22PM (#672179)
    Its about 8 or 9 years old, running a overclocked 8086 chip with not one, but two 5.25 inch disk drives! It has a 300 baud modem and I'll toss in the 12 inch monocrome monitor for free! Come on people, you'll kick yourselves later.

    Now I'll just wait for the 15 grand.
  • by at-b ( 31918 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @01:23PM (#672180) Homepage
    The PlayStation, like most consoles, is a loss leader. Sony isn't making a lot of money selling them, in fact, it's highly likely that they are losing a small amount in the US. In Britain, the PS2 will cost about $100 more, but then the market's smaller, and a lot of additional costs are higher.

    However, Sony has a monopoly on selling licenses for the PS[2]. If you want to code for it, first you need to fork over a lot of cash for a development kit (ie. tens and tens of thousands of dollars), which in effect is little more than a Linux box with funky things thrown in.

    Then, you need to give Sony lots more cash. In fact, they make money with every game sold, because they do per-copy licensing. So, for doing *absolutely nothing*, Sony gets money from the publishers of PS2 games. Sorry, correction: For allowing them to develop for PS2. In return for allowing them to develop for PS2, Sony gives developers binding contracts which often ban them from developing for other competing systems. Ever wonder why Electronic Arts games don't get published on the Dreamcast? EA didn't want to piss off their moneycow, PS and now PS2.

    MS may be portrayed as the evil empire, but they have nothing on Sony or Nintendo. Hell, you should have seen the lawsuits flying when software makers dared to try to publish games for Nintendo/Sony without getting licenses...

    Imagine that: Microsoft suing you as a coder because you wrote a game for Windows - without giving them money. Most of Sony's profits in the last few years or so were from PS-related licensing. They didn't make any money from the hardware.. but raked it in when it comes to software.

    Reality check, guys.

    Alex T-B
    St Andrews
  • I'm in the same boat, there are what, maybe 3 or 4 types of games now and a serious lack of creativity in the gaming industry. "My FPS has a weapon that stops time! That's innovation people."

    I just don't see it either, I don't know if 90% is a fair number but at least 50% of what makes it to the market is total garbage and the other 49% is the same old-same old and 1% is a rare exception of a creative well produced game that somehow made it to the market without huge amounts of managerial compromises.

    As far as the PS2 is concerned, its the mad rush to get the newest and prettiest and Sony does have a couple good games out for it already, but according to what I've read there isn't much (significant, worth buying) of a difference compared to the Dreamcast.

  • Gee, how come that didn't work for 600MHz Motorola G4 chips?
  • i'm suddenly having flashbacks to bard's tale i and the 4 groups of 30 something-or-others that lived in some tower/casle thingy. I remember when my monk started hitting more than twice, and when your ac got so low it used some two letter abreviation instead. But i can't seem to remember any of this exactly. Argh. I hope you apreciate the fact that the rest of my day which would have been productive will now be spent trying to remember the answers to these and other questions.

    And in bards tale 1 you could summon a stone monster/god/thingy to join your party by hitting "z". and that's the only useful thing i remember....
  • It's not the money that Sony is after. It's publicity.

    More publicity = more mindshare.
    more mindshare = more marketshare
    more marketshare = more developers

    Which is what we've been reading has been Sony's weak point, right?
  • by BRock97 ( 17460 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @01:35PM (#672197) Homepage
    It is very sad to see a console launch like this so badly manipulated and screwed with. Couple of facts that you have not read about:

    • Sony is still expecting to hit their 1.3 million number by the first of the year in total PS2s sold.
    • They are going to do this by sending 100,000 units each and every week up until Christmas

    Now, that is not to say that there was not a shortage at launch, but that 1.3 million number is not that far from the 1.5 million they had originally forecast. So much for all those auctions on eBay that stated no more units till next March. I guess some are paying a premium for scouts obtaining systems.

    From a gamer enthusiast standpoint, it makes me sick to see the launch go this way. Again, thousands of teenagers and young adults, indirectly thanks to eBay, are scalping their systems for a huge margin. Most likely not needed if that many systems are coming out each week from now till X-Mas. In fact, I do part time work at a local Best Buy, and at least four of the employees were scalping their systems they had purchased at that store over eBay. That only angers me, as I was sadly screwed out of a system for myself by someone wanting to make a quick buck. To see a gaming machine purchased for such a reason makes a hobbyist like myself rather upset. I will now likely wait and purchase a system when Metal Gear Solid 2 comes out, as this has left a bad taste in my mouth.

    Bryan R.
  • by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @01:37PM (#672200) Homepage Journal
    Whatever happened to the other important metric?

    Number of Soccer Moms who decked, bit, strangled or rammed others in the parking lot?

  • The quality of a console is not defined by the hardware, but the games. So far I haven't heard anyone saying nice things about the PS2 already published (nor has anyone complemented the games coming out in the next few months). I'm sure it will be a good system given some time, but it isn't there yet.

    Well, I played a friend's system for a bit at lunch today and Dead Or Alive 2: Hardcore was pretty damn sweet. I didn't have time to check out the new Tekken game or racing game he bought, but the graphics quality was several times what else I have seen. There was clearly excellent computational work in there as well, as no clipping occurred that I could detect in very complicated manuevers. In short, I was more impressed than I have been with graphics in computers and consoles recently. The graphics were noticably better than Dreamcast, but not so much that I'd pay that kind of money right now. The whole lack of anti-aliasing issue that cropped up in Japan was fixed when developers realized that they could do it, but it wasn't where they thought it would be. (I was curious, so I checked up on it at ps2.ign.com [ign.com].) There are also all those old PS games...

    The second issue is the DVD player. You basicly buy a game system and get a Sony DVD player for free. This is the bigger reason I am looking forward to getting one eventually. My favorite console developer (the omnipresent SquareSoft), seems pretty committed to PS2 only, so I will get one once the hype dies down. My friend is one of those people who buys cool stuff when it comes out, on the other hand. (He and some co-workers of his got 6 PS2s amongst them and are selling them on E-Bay as a self reward for standing in line for like 7 or 9 hours.)

    B. Elgin

  • They know all about economics. If they jacked up the price there would be tremendous negative PR. Also, the shortfall was unpredicted, and they probably signed contracts with retailers months in advance.

    Maybe a future contract will include a clause stating that Sony has the right to change pricing in the event of a shortfall, but the big chains like Best Buy probably wouldn't go for it. It would screw up a lot of things, from balance sheets to print ads, to decisions about distribution (a price double might not change sales in wealthy areas but it might decrease demand in poorer sections).

    By all means study the graphs in your econ books, but don't forget about the real world outside academic theory.

  • Other parts of the system are in demand and in short supply. I've been calling around looking for the new Monster PS2 S-Video cable with no success (all the Best Buys sold out this morning).

    The other missing part is memory cards, which might be in even shorter supply than the consoles - at least I know that there were a number of people in stores I was at earlier today who had a PS2, but no memory card!! Talk about annoying.

    As for me - I preordered one for me, and one for a friend. One from EB, and one from Gamestop. Despite getting e-mail from each saying I'd have the system on launch day, I have only the memory card and extra controller EB was good enough to send, and the copy of SSX that gamestop sent a week or so ago. Maddening! (if only I'd bought the game that would've made a great pun)

    So, I have nothing, and no way to tell what's going on - at least Gamestop sent me mail saying they sent the console out today, but EBworld has shut off the phone systems, shut down the online order tracking, and is trying to say "Go away, I can't take the load".

    Moral of the story - always pre-order at your local game shop! Even though I preordered eight months ago, there are people that preordered only a few months ago or just were patient enough to stand in line this morning that have one right now.

    Plus, it might not even cost you more - at Gamestop they charge tax for every order, and had seperate shipping charges for every PS2 game!

    Oh well, at least I got a lot of work done around the house.

    As for if it is worth it - I've tried a few systems set up in stores and it seems worth it to me. I wouldn't pay the current e-bay price for one, but $300 is pretty reasonable - also, once I get the PS2 (and Mosnter cables) I can give my mom my current DVD player.
  • There used to be a Beowulf project for PS2s [sourceforge.net] going, but the mailing list died out. After a couple months, this post came across:
    • My impression was that sony itself put the damper on this project. In order to do development, you would have had to buy a 20k development kit. In order to get the kit, you would need to sign all sorts of licensing agreements which would severly limit the solution space for wulfstation. In order to distribute anything developed for wulfstation, you would have to get sony to manufacture the media (with their proprietary content scrambling system) with a minimum volume of 10,000 units.
    • Remember that sony is a media company and not really a hardware company. Their hardware development is subservient to their media distribution efforts. Wulfstation development runs counter to the business goals of sony.

      When I evaluated the risks and put the emotion engine on a bang for buck graph with other product families, I got crossover in early 2001. My scheduling showed wulfstation development not paying off until late q3 2000 (old analysis). Hence, wulfstation had a 4 month window before it was over taken by the normal intel and amd solutions. I didn't consider speed improvements based on SSE and 3D-now.

      • So, the choices were:
      • 1) Fight the good fight, get sued, and end up on the back side of the power curve.

        2) Relax, develop other things, and end up in front of the power curve.

        Pretty easy, eh?

    For straight out linux, I suppose the power curve doesn't matter so much. Though I don't know if there's anyone out there willing to spend $20k just for the geek factor of running linux on it.
  • A friend of mine was in line last night at 9PM for a PS2. He and a friend where able to pick up 2 at the local Walmart... they didn't go on sale until 7AM and they ended up sleeping on concrete, but it wasn't a bad deal. Some people unplugged the pop machines and hooked up a TV and an N64... that along with the cooler of beer made it a party...

    Anyway, he started his eBay auctions last week, made sure they ended this morning, and sold one for $1000 and one for $1600. He was getting email like crazy and made phone contact with the final buyers before he ended the auction... one guy is FedExing the check and the other guy is paypal'n the payment through.

    All in all it's a sweet deal and he would have been an idiot not to do it... $2k profit for 1 nights work... and the work was sitting around outside for a few hours.

    You sort of feel bad that there is less to go around for the local kids, but on the other hand, he was able to make $$ off of Sony's hype. Why not?

  • I would guess that the problem is not stupidity; Sony didn't want this to happen and tried to avoid it. But the factories couldn't get up to speed in time for Christmas.

    Um... Actually, most of the big computer/electronics players are running into semiconductor shortages all over the place. Sony is one of them. They are missing some of the raw components to make the systems.

    B. Elgin

  • The shades don't mean new bidded/seller, they simply mean new name. IOW, you could have a feedback rating of 1000, but as soon as you changed your name/handle/ID, you would get the shades. It is possible to see the history of a user's ID now, if they change names mid-stream.

    New bidders/sellers get the shades because they are, in effect, a new name. After awhile (30 days?), the shades go away - even if they never bid on anything (though they would have to bid at least once for others to see the shades, or absence thereof)...

    If you want to truely know how well a bidder/seller is doing, look at the feedback, as well as the feedback comments. Don't trust somebody simply if he has 300 feedback - for all you know, he had 400 six months ago, and received 100 negative feedbacks since then! Similarly, don't knock someone who has low positive feedback without checking the comments - he may only have 20 feedback, but maybe all were positives, spanning a three month period or something - pretty reliable individual, if you ask me...

    Only if you see someone with zero feedback and shades, should you consider the person an unknown. This doesn't mean they are bad, just keep your wits about you...

    I support the EFF [eff.org] - do you?
  • Makes COMPLETE sense to me. Some marketing dude puts it up for sale, some other marketing type 'buys' it.

    All you really have to pay for is the auction fees on the $15K sale. In return, you get $15M worth of PR when it makes the evening news.

  • but then again do you REALLY want to try to use a terminal window with nothing more than a game controller to enter text with? imagine a onscreen keyboard and having to pick each character out one at a time.... yuck. Command line does seem to indicate a keyboard needed.

    Just FYI: There is a keyboard that is among the accessories due out later this year/early next. It also has USB ports.

    B. Elgin

  • Simply put: Why put off a sale you can make today? Any consumer oriented company that acts like this tends to go bankrupt(auctions/speculations are a different case). That would be like thinking Pizza Hut can sell more pizzas if they make people wait for an hour after a customer comes in looking for food.

    What happens, and this happens all of the time too, is that Sony must approach multiple companies and make orders *months* in advance. Sometimes they underestimate. More often what happens is that no manufacturer can fill the order in the quanties and price they wanted. It happens. So they make as many as they can and continue to order more parts.

    Also, even if there were Japanese PS2 sitting in some warehouse somewhere you just can't load them up and drive down to Software Etc./Babbages.
  • we've had one in our office for a few months now (the japanese one, easily bought on canal st. in NYC) and frankly it's not that special. Evolutionary, not revolutionary. Of course, I just played some racing game (grand turisimo?) that had terrible control and street fighter 3 which was laughably easy.
  • Well, actually the PS/2 would be running an 80286 with 3.5 inch drives (high density! 1.44 MB!) and the dear, departed Micro Channel Architecture. Of course it does have the PS/2 mouse port, so perhaps you can use your Cuecat with it?

    Seriously, though, I wonder what Sony had to pay IBM to use that trademark. I bet it was something.

  • The PS2 has FSAA capability, and it doesn't cause too much of a performance hit relatively speaking (Some funky hardware thing...), but Sony didn't make it sufficiently clear in their documentation, about how exactly you implement it, so a lot of early games had a lot of jaggies.
  • by winter@ES ( 17304 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @02:23PM (#672252)
    There's quite enough talk about the supposed worthlessness of the system, terrible quality of the launch games, conspiracy by Sony etc. That's boring. How bout my "getting the PS2" story, and some actual reviews instead ;-)


    The story:

    I live and work in Dallas TX (I'm a game developer with Ensemble Studios.) For a few weeks now, a couple of us around the office have been setting up plans to get the PS2 the day it came out. Our plan as of yesterday was to camp a Best Buy, which was supposedly getting the largest shipment of units (~150.) We decided that 4am was a good time to show up (6 hours in advance of opening.) Yesterday, however, at about 4:20, I started thinking that perhaps there were some 24 hour places that might put the system on sale at midnight, so I called around.

    4:30, and the first 24 hour Walmart I call tells me, "We've got 18 systems in, and we're putting em on sale tonight at 12:01. There's already 5 people in line." 5 minutes later, and my pal Rob and I were already in the car speeding through traffic to get there (We figured that a 7 hour wait in the evening was better than a 6 hour wait at 4 in the morning.)

    We arrive at approximately 4:55. As we're pulling up to the store, we watch a group of 4 kids literally bolt across the parking lot and run into the store. I know what they're here for. I tell Rob to park and I jump out of the car and enter the store, heading for the electronics section. As I walk up, I see a number of people looking around for a place to line up. I search for the nearest clerk and ask him where the line for the Playstation 2 is, he looks confused and intimidated and tells me to wait there. Not content with that answer, I track down another clerk - this one points me to the layaway section in the back of the store. As I round the corner into the layaway halway, I finally see the line. It looks like at least 30 people to me. CRAP. Quick tally. Wait - 15 people! Woo! Rob comes rushing in 30 seconds later. We've got spots 16 and 17. Five minutes later and the line is full.

    The next 7 hours were filled with mixed games of Magic, talking about game design ideas, Gameboy playing, attempts by various people to sneak their way into the line, and a few muted threats that the cops were going to come to quiet things down if people didn't behave or parents didn't show up to accompany the minors. All in all, Walmart was very cool about the whole thing, and although they admitted to not at all expecting what happened, they handled it gracefully and even held an impromptu raffle for some 20$ gift certificates towards the purchase of the PS2 for those of us standing in line.

    Finally at 11:55, as everyone was standing and a very noticeable excitement and tension was in the air, we heard a page over the intercom for "Assistance in the front." and 3 minutes later, a shopping cart filled to the brim with bright blue boxes was escorted by no less than 2 walmart managers and a couple of large stocking guys right by the line and into the back room behind the counter. The 18 were then cordoned off from the 20 or so "spectators" and parents (as well as my girlfriend Jade, who is the coolest chick in the world; she likes games and actually spent the evening playing Magic with us geeks and hanging out), and we purchased our systems one by one. I walked out of the store at about 12:20am, playstation2 in hand. =)

    On the way to Rob's house after the purchase, we drove by the Best Buy we were going to camp at, just to check it out. At 12:30am, there were 36 people we counted lined up outside - 9 and 1/2 hours before the store opened.


    The System:

    After all that, we certainly had to get home right away to plug'er in. The system itself is very stylish and sleek looking. My personal preference (as well as Rob's) is that a game machine look more "fun" than the PS2 looks, but if you're preference is the cool factor, this is definitely the coolest looking console to date. The manufacturing quality appears to be as high or higher than that of the PSX. The black plastic of the case is embossed with the PS2 logo on top, and it has some very nice little touches like a rotatable PS logo on the drivebay, and a very slick blue LED power indicator. Some negatives there are a really wacked power cycling scheme that involves a seperate master switch on the back (intended to be left on always), and then a "reset" button on the front that actually activates the system, and which you have to hold down for a few seconds to power the system off. Also, there seems to be a pretty significant cooling fan in the back of the system that emits a rather loud, compared to other consoles, (though not really unpleasant) whirring noise.

    Included with the system is one controller, AV cables, instruction manual and a power cable. No demo disc, and no memory card (and apparently, the (un)availability of these cards is 1 for every 5 systems sold right now!) I was suprised by the lack of demo disc - that seems to be a no-brainer marketting oportunity to me, and I was disapointed that the system came with absolutely no included software save for the firmware.

    Turning on the system for the first time presents you with a slightly different opening than the Japanese PS2 systems, with a display of the PS2 line-drawing-style logo, and then a list of languages and time zones to select from. Interesting to note is that the system was aware of the date/time out of the box - it was preset at the factory. The system configuration and memory browser menus are very slick, sporting background dolby surround sounds of ocean surf, and images of blue crystal icons and cool depth-of-field effects.

    The overall sound quality of the system when hooked up via the included optical jack, and set to Dolby AC3 is phenomenal - way beyond that of the other consoles I have hooked up to my system. The music in games like Madden and SSX sounds really good, and the sound effects are crystal clear and sport very smooth and loud bass. Overall I'd have to say that the game audio is movie-quality and really impressed me. The video quality (for in-game videos, such as the Armored Core intro, or the Madden Intro) is also far ahead of what other console's have to offer and was the first thing that really impressed me when we booted the games.


    The Games:

    I wasn't expecting the games themselves to be very good actually; In the past, console launches have tended to have only one (maybe two) strong games, and a bunch of shlock to fill out the launch. Rob and I had between us: Fantavision, Madden 2001, Smugglers Run, Armored Core, Midnight Club Racing, and SSX.

    Overall, I was suprised and quite pleased with the quality of the games. Almost all of the titles we tried, with the exception of Midnight Club Racing, were very strong A-quality titles.

    - Out of those titles, SSX and Madden are clearly the best games for the system at this time. SSX is a VERY nice looking (very fast too - 60fps) snowboarding game that is a mix between Tony Hawk (skateboarding game) and 1080 (snowboarding game.) It's all about frantic downhill action and crazy stunts, the gameplay was right on and the production quality was very high. Madden is the best looking title available on the PS2 and the production quality of that game was also remarkably high. Neither of these games had the usual rushed-out-the-door quality I would normally expect with a launch title, and none of the games had the pre-first-generation feel that I'm used to in the games that are available when a system first comes out - they were all very polished.

    - Smuggler's Run was probably my second favorite game, right behind SSX, because of it's split-screen multiplayer. The CTF style capture-the-loot game is really fun, and makes me think of the PC game Tribes, except with cars ;-) The graphics engine rendered a huge landscape that stretched off in the distance with no draw-in and a tiny bit of LODing on the objects; Overall it looked very nice, and the physics engine made for some great dune-buggy-style driving.

    - Fantavision was a unique and fast-paced puzzle type game, that didn't appeal to me as much as a tetris clone, simply because it was lacking a bit in depth of strategy. Armored Core was a great looking FPS mech game that was fun to play and had a nice shallow learning curve - the only downside was lack of analog stick support. Midnight Club Racing seemed the weakest of the bunch to me, simply because it seemed tedious, and the graphics were not at all up to par with the rest of the group.

    I can't wait to see what second generation games look like. The games I listed above leave out some very notable titles that were also available at launch such as Tekken Tag Tournament, Dead or Alive 2, and Ridge Racer V.


    As Rob pointed out to me, your average gamer has no idea that many development houses are having lots of difficulty wrapping their brains around the PS2, those things might get some coverage in the hardcore-gamer news channels. All your average gamer knows is what he thinks is fun, and what his friends and magazines tell him is fun. I would have to say that the amount of hype and momentum to purchase the system I experienced yesterday, coupled with at least half a dozen very strong launch titles, suggests to me that sony still has great potential to lead this next generation console market. The XBox and Gamecube also have undeniably promising potential that is going to make for a very interesting playing field this coming year. =)

    On my way home from Rob's, Jade and I drove by Best Buy again, and there was a line that stretched from the door, all the way around to about halfway down the side of the building. At least 60 people there at 3am. The parking lot looked as full as it does during normal hours. This Best Buy is merely one of probably half a dozen in the DFW metroplex - according to the other two guys here who actually got a system this morning (woohoo! 4 for 4!) every store they went to had a similar phenomenon.


    p.s. I'm sure that some people consider the rush to get a new console the day it comes out to be pretty pointless. We all have our priorities I guess, and for me, Fun is pretty high up there on the list. The fun and excitement of this experience was way worth the 9 or so hours it took, so please don't bother to flame me for it. =)

  • Sure, call me cynical, but I really don't see why people are so obsessed over a gaming console. For some reason, they seem to have forgotten that any PC purchased within the last, say, 3 months, probably out-powers the PSX2 in both processor speed and video power. And, if you want to play PSX/PSX2 games, there is always bleem! [bleem.com]

    Note, I'm not trying to troll here, I am simply expressing an opinion. I never really understood the alure of a gaming console.. does anybody have any comments?

  • by oh shoot ( 79863 ) on Thursday October 26, 2000 @03:34PM (#672276) Homepage
    Sony is NOT making money for nothing: they spent tons of their money developing, manufacturing, and distributing the PS2. Without Sony, there would be no platform for the developers to develop for. Duh. In essence, Sony created both a market and a demand for the games these developers make.

    Without Ford making cars, who would buy car tires?
  • You are absolutely correct in stating that Sony doesn't make money selling hardware. Even for the psx (playstation 1), Sony still losses money on that, A lot of people do not understand that hardware is expensive, especially when you are trying to be innovatie and pushing cutting edge technology. But bear in mind that the real money Sony makes is also not from the devkit, It is from the actually royalities of every game sold.

    Now to correct you, Please don't describe PS2 as a little more than a Linux box with funky things thrown in. PS2 devkit is also expensive, first of all, PS2 is so powerful that using your normal PC to dev for it is powerful enough. The PS2 devkit is actually a souped up PS2 that runs linux as well just like the PSX(PS1) devkit was a souped PSX with 8mb of ram instead of just 2. My friend has had access to PS2 and PS2Devkit since it was released in Japan, so I have heard alot. I did some PSX programming and I can tell you that Sony makes superb quality hardware.

    First of all, you are attacking Sony because they charge royalty for every game published. Reality check for you, if Sony only relied on the actually consoles, do you think they will make a profit? Hell no, development cost is very very high, Sony doesn't just come up with all these things by themselves, they have to buy technologies from other companies as well. They will be losing money. So cut Sony a slack. As far as licensing goes, it is not evil. Imagine this, if you are a software company, you pay Sony $20k for a devkit/license, you write your good games, and your game sells. Even after paying Sony you will come out making millions! Is that bad? Nope

    First of all, Console makers have a reason for licensing devkits, the more devkits out there, the more crappy games you see. Take the case of PC, imagine if everything called a game was shelved. Imagine how annoying that would be, with consoles, after paying that much money, you really want to make good games to get your money back. Sony is not as anal as Nintendo, if you look at N64 and PSX, PSX has tons of more games, many quality ones, as well as many more horrible ones. But on N64, sure it doesn't have many games like PSX, but it has a lot of quality titles. Nintendo will not give you the devkit just cuz you have $$$, Try it. They want to know that you can make good game for their systems.

    Another reason why Console makers restrict the license is because of piracy. Imagine if consoles were open like PC, Then anyone and everyone will know how to make a copy of the games easily, Piracy will tremendously increase.

    Btw, I don't know if you are a hardcore gamer, but if you are, I suggest you go research on Why EA is mad at Sega and is not supporting Dreamcast. EA and many companies lost money because of weak Saturn, when you have your trust betrayed, especially your company but in danger of losing it's business by another company, you gotta be careful next time they come out with another technology which can potentially be hype.

    Therefore, I ask you to cut the console makers some slack, if you were them, you will not do anything differently, and if you did, you will not survive.

    Anyway, My friend who is playing with PS2 and PS2 devkit is not very impressed. He thinks it might face the same problem Saturn did, hard to program. PS2's problem is that it is a very complex beast, Saturn on the other hand had many hardware flaws. Let's hope that it does as well as PSX tho. I will be getting one as soon as there is a "modchip" ;)

  • Well, that's not quite right. You CAN enter into contracts, but they're voidable.

    In some states (most states, even) this means you can as much as buy a car, drive it for a year (as long as you're still 18), return it and get back the full amount you paid. For that matter, under the right circumstances you can void a contract you made as a minor shortly after turning 18.

    Doesn't work everywhere, and if you take someone for too much of a ride you may have some liability under quasicontract law.

    But IANAL and this isn't legal advice.
  • There is a greater demand than supply. Not everyone who wants one will get one. In these circumstances, as long as there are free traders, the price will rise to a level where demand is reduced to the same level as supply.

    Are you seriously saying that you prefer rationing to free market economics? What makes the person willing to place an 8-month preorder more deserving than the person willing to pay 3 times the sticker price?

    The only thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is that this is way of thinking is so common. Scalpers serve a useful economic function: helping to reduce all prices to purely monetary ones.


  • > On the way to Rob's house after the purchase, we drove by the Best Buy we
    > were going to camp at, just to check it out. At 12:30am, there were
    > 36 people we counted lined up outside - 9 and 1/2 hours before the store opened.

    And you didn't feel the urge to slowly drive by holding the box up in the window honking your horn?

    No no, not in a snotty way, rather with a big smile and a thumbs up triumphant, but sharing your score!

  • Ah, so you are one of those "Put a price on life" types, eh? Sorry, don't buy it.

    Bryan R.
  • To see a gaming machine purchased for such a reason makes a hobbyist like myself rather upset.

    It's called supply and demand bub. Obviously Sony is charging well below the price at which demand intersects supply, this difference is enough to motivate people to resell the systems on the secondary market. If the buyers are ignorant enough to not look into the future forecast of supply, then that is their problem. Nothing will ever sell for more than the buyer really wanted to pay for it, that is why capitalism is all about mutual consent in trade.

    Your only possible ethics argument is against the people who are claiming that there won't be any supply until March. If they know better and are lying, then that is fraud, and they can be sued as such.

    With your argument that these "scalpers" were taking systems you could have bought, you can still buy the system when the scalpers sell them, there is nothing stopping you. If the system is worth more to somebody else than it is worth to you, too bad, that's how a free market works.

    eBay and the final realization of nearly perfect capitalistic markets really drives you socalists crazy, doesn't it?

  • I was just looking at the auctions for PS 2 systems at ebay and found this very disturbing sight. The craze has gone overboard, time to make some cash while it is still hot." Whoah -- check that price. Errr, so this would be the "premium" gasoline, sir?

    It'll be interesting to see what they have to say about it, as this person admits to being a Toys R Us employee.

  • how many of the ps2 purchases were made just to be resold?

    should there be limits?

    No, instead of realeasing 500,000 units to stores, Sony should have had a huge dutch auction on eBay with 250,000 units. It would have placed the value of the system at the exact point where supply and demand meet, and would have likely made Sony a lot of money.

  • Forward that info to their corp headquarters, CC: Sony. That should have some impact. Sony is already acting to discourage gouging.

  • Hmm, pretty sterile response for someone who promotes a poetry website. Just because I dislike a situation doesn't mean a condone a whole system. If I felt that way about democracy, I would be held up in a compound some where in Wyoming. I will go one step farther and say if we lived in a socialist society, we would not have the PS2 to begin with, let alone worrying how to distribute them. Guess you didn't think that far. As far as the scalpers are concerned, there is no argument there. They are a fact of a capitalistic system. I DO love it when you strict, by the numbers capitalist use socialism in such a fleeting way when someone dislikes one aspect of capitalism. Guess it is the poet in you.....

    Bryan R.
  • As an aside, Bleem only plays PSX games, not PSX2.

    Why do people buy consoles?

    Because you don't have to futz with them

    You plug in the console, plug in a controller, insert a game disc and rock. You buy a PC game and you need to make sure you have enough memory, the appropriate drivers, the appropriate hardware, go through installation and still run the risk of something conflicting and causing the machine to crash.

    Also, with consoles, game developers know exactly what hardware the user has and can develop games which push that hardware to the limit. With PC games, you can't assume that everyone has a Voodoo5, 1GHz processor, and 1GB of RAM so the developers have to build more for a lowest common denominator ideal.

    Sure your PC may be just as/more powerful than my console but in the time it takes you to check drivers, install the game, and resolve any conflicts; I'm already through the first level and I don't have to worry about my console crashing while I'm playing.

  • http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& item=480860732

    Almost a hoax for sure, but guess it shows how crazy things are in general.

  • Look at it the other way 'round. For $300 you get a DVD player, which you can also use to play some really great games. It's a killer price point for Sony...it's going to be hard to sell regular DVD players against this thing.
  • I haven't traced extensively, but it looks to me like most of the bids in the $600-$1200 range are from different people, some with pretty high feedback.


  • As of just after midnight on the 27th, my Southeastern US wal-mart told me that they had 5 left of the 37 they got but they could not sell them becuase they were under recall... said the controllers had a couple of buttons reversed.

    Since I haven't heard that anywhere else, my first (paranoid) reaction is that some higher up to the nice lady I talked to has heard about the "unofficial" prices and is trying to save 'em for itself, or trying for a cut at least. I haven't been really paying attention to a game console release, so I might've missed it...

    If it's true, and even a small fraction of these first units have a flaw, then what's the collector's value of an unopened first day set going to be 10 years from now? Just goes to prove that there's lotsa folks out there with more money than sense (IMHO); if there's any PS2's left in my area they'll be up on ebay tomorrow.

  • Without Ford making cars, who would buy car tires?

    So I suppose tiremakers should pay the car companies for the right to make tires?

    -- iCEBaLM
  • I wasn't trolling. I honestly have played countless 'newer' games and have actually enjoyed playing about three of them. Most of them either go so far into the "We have cool graphics" realm that you cannot for the life of you find anything reedeming to the game itself, or they go so far out of their way to make the game "realistic" that you cannot figure out how to get past the first round. I'm thinking along the lines of the strategy games where you have to make sure your troops have enough toilet paper or else they end up getting poison ivy because you didn't properly train/warn them about how to wipe their ass in the wilderness and then morale shoots through the floor. I hate those damn "realistic" games that seem to be more about how to piss you off then how to have an enjoyable game. BTW, you're right, I never did finish Bards Tale II, but I still occassionally play it. Why? Because, even when you didn't win, it was still fun as hell to play.
  • Fair enough--if you get pinging, you need a higher
    octane gas (or a tuneup). But, for almost every
    properly tuned car out there, regular 87 octane gas
    is perfectly acceptable, and anything higher than
    that is _less_ efficient in their car. Probably more
    than 90% of the litres of premium gas are wasted

  • Actually, PSX was the internal development name, much like 'chicago' was the internal name for Win95, and 'memphis' for 98, and, I believe, 'cairo' for NT5.
  • A-hem! Not if that person wanted to play Region 1 DVD's. ;)

    (yawn) In which case he could have bought a high-end DVD player at a home theatre store. Instead of getting a toy to play them on.

    I think what we're really going to see is a few users getting kicked off of ebay. Notice that the highest offer on the $15K PS2 from anyone with a two-digit rating is $1200. That's still rather absurd, though.

  • (yawn) In which case he could have bought a high-end DVD player at a home theatre store. Instead of getting a toy to play them on.

    I'm sure Sony would resent that statement if they read it. That's like saying that if you had your high-end mixer/speakers hooked up to your TV and you had a PSX that you wouldn't play CD's on it - instead you'd go out and buy high-end CD player and sit it right beside the PSX, mocking it's (non-existent) mediocrity as a CD player. GET REAL.

    The PS2's sold like hotcakes in Japan because they *could* play DVD's. If some high-class jerk in North America (or anywhere besides Japan for that matter) wants to have two CD players and two DVD players (one of which doesn't work) in the same entertainment system then that person deserves to pay through nose.


  • you know. the whole morning was a blur, but i'm pretty sure two security guards had to stop me from making out with my PS2 while i was waiting in line to pay for it.

    (Dr. Evil voice): will you and the playstation 2 get a frickin' room.

    idunno. i was one of the lucky ones. i remembered it was coming out at about 6:45am. Got to the bestbuy at about 7:30, ~7:45 the best buy PS2 gestapo handed out 130 tickets for the suckers....i was 107. It was pretty fun coming back at 9:45 to tell all the rice boys in "Prelude Type R's" (lmfao) that no ticket == no PS2. ;-) That one's for beating me up in high school assholes!!!

    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
  • RE: Without Ford making cars, who would buy car tires?

    Consumers. Usually repeatedly, after the Firestones that came with the car shred to pieces.

"My sense of purpose is gone! I have no idea who I AM!" "Oh, my God... You've.. You've turned him into a DEMOCRAT!" -- Doonesbury