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Games Entertainment

Nintendo GameCube Preview 132

Posted by timothy from the mo'-fun-and-games dept.
ravedaddy writes: "We've all seen the hype over the Sony PS2 and Microsoft X-box but things have been fairly quiet on Nintendo's front. So will Nintendo's GameCube pack a punch powerful enough to pound its competitors in overall sales and immersing game play? We won't know for another six months, but the authors of this preview piece were able to sit down with one of Nintendo's partners, ATI Technologies, to discuss some of the specifications of the GameCube and how its architecture is designed to compete. There is quite a bit of info on the 'flipper' 3D chip from ATI in there."
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Nintendo GameCube Preview More

Nintendo GameCube Preview

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  • I'm not sure about that. Technology advances much more quickly now than in The Good Old Days. IMO, the PSX1 has looked pretty lame compared to PC games and others, and needed to be repaced badly. I think the N64 was just mismanaged or mismarketed or both. I agree that it probably never reached it's full potential, but if it hasn't yet, it's missed its window.
  • I dunno man... those icons make your system attractive to the younger set, but are those the people you want to be your core buyers? The hardcore gamers these days are older than that. Anyway it isn't like PS2 doesn't have some icons of its own... The Tekken series and Final Fantasy among others will rock Nintendo's world, IMHO. Nintentdo's got a less-than-desireable rep at the moment to boot, so I think they'd better have learned to like playing second fiddle, 'cuz there ain't no end in sight.
  • You can actually get them pretty cheap now. The system and all 10 games for under 150 probably. Thats not TOO bad, as long as you know what your getting and dont expect too much.

  • Umm, you don't need any AOL clients on Windows PCs to use a Time Warner cable modem

    Better get all your surfing in real fast because that will change once AOL buys Time Warner.

  • Clayfighter (cartoon fighting) was released on at least the SNES and possibly on other consoles as well. There were multi-player puzzle battle games in the arcades long before they were on N64.

    How many controllers did Clay Fighter or Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo[?] [everything2.com] support? Quite a bit of innovation was required to make the largely two-player genres work well for four players.

  • The "Flipper" 3D chip was developed by ArtX, not ATi.
    Also, in reading some comments about PowerPC chips, i just wanted to note that the Gekko chip isn't a Motorola/Apple PowerPC chip, it's an IBM Power chip.
  • I'm pretty sure that the failiure to future-proof consoles is a good thing.

    Programmers working on PCs tend to think 'oh, that runs a bit slow but it won't get released until processors are twice as fast, so it doesn't matter.' On a console you don't have that option - you have to write more economical code. You end up having products released that the console's creators would not have thought possible when they first put the system together. In the long run, these restricted platforms mean that there have got to be more really good games programmers around. And thats got to be good news for games players everywhere.

  • you would think that by now all console manufacturers would notice that just about all gamers want BROADBAND and not modems.

    At least one manufacturer is thinking that way. The Indrema [indrema.com] will ship with a 100 Mbps Ethernet Port as standard equipment.

  • I miss the old games. With the advent of 3d gaming, we get super-realistic games, but I really miss the simple, FUN, side scrollers such as my personal favoite Super Mario Bros. 2. Chances are, we'll never see a non-3d mario again. And every one remembers Metroid as being a great game -- which it was -- but I can guarantee the next Metroid will be 3d. The only thing that will make it Metroid is the characters -- the gameplay is totally different.

    I haven't bought a console since the Genesis / SNES, and I don't plan on it. 3d stuff just isn't that appealing to me (flame away -- I know you'll tell me about all the great games out there).
  • Oh yeah, can't wait for 3d vollyfire ;)

  • Re:No DVD? (Score:3)

    by schechter ( 221706 ) on Thursday November 30, 2000 @04:33PM (#590405) Homepage
    Nintendo has a deal with Panasonic to release a version of GameCube that has DVD playback, so if you wnat it, you can always pay the extra money to get it. But it's smart on Nintendo's part to not force it on consumers, but rather give us a choice.
  • I think it's only a matter of time until Nintendo goes software only. They stand to make mad cash money bling bling if they release a Mario for an already established system. The only halfway decent games for the N64 were all developed by either Nintendo or Rare. You need more third party support then that to win the console wars. Sure a new Metroid will likely be fantastic, but what Nintendo needs is a new great game. I hope there's a ZeldaCube, MarioCube, KirbyCube, etc. but it's time for Nintendo to move beyond their old NES characters. Pokemon, of course is the exception, but I think Nintendo may be banking a little to heavily on the annoying vermin. Obviously Pokemon's target audience is going to grow up some time. The game isn't ageless like Mario. And then where Nintendo be? Well they'll have some of the most talented game developers every and the best video game properties of all time. Why not develop for Sony? They will however likely stay in the handheld market. They seem to have the monopoly there, and with GameBoy Advance looking solid I don't see them losing that anytime soon.

    -Jeff
  • Of course, the gamecube will be far cheaper than the PS2, and may have larger developer support because it lacks the weird ass dual vector processor design of the PS2. At least here in canada, buying a Gamecube(at a projected release price of, say $300) and a dedicated, quality DVD player would be cheaper than buying a PS2 right now (if there were any to be had).

  • Re:Hopefully (Score:3)

    by dark_panda ( 177006 ) on Thursday November 30, 2000 @04:39PM (#590408)
    The whole reason they didn't work with the N64 was mostly because of the lack of a decent storage medium. The N64 carts are tiny and seriously compared to, say, the Playstation's CDs, hence the switch.

    It also had something to do with a sort of falling out with Nintendo themselves. I remember reading about the production troubles with the Nintendo/Square team up on Super Mario RPG, and I guess the tension it created, combined with Nintendo's adherence to the cartridge medium, solidified Square's move to the PSX. The fact that Sony shoved money down their pants didn't hurt.

    There's been talk of Square developing for the Xbox, so anything is possible. If the system is solid, why wouldn't they want to make games for it? The storage question is practically a non-issue (unless Nintendo still insists on using its crazy licensing and production practices, as the Gamecube does use a proprietary format for the games).

    I can see them making Gamecube games. But that's just my take.

    J
  • I for one was really disappointed with the N64. The best console games I have played to date are Zelda on the SNES, the first Zelda, and Metroid on the SNES. Why? These games were not 3D.

    Why is it that every new game coming out has to have some sort of funky camera that follows the character around? They are hard to use, they make seeing the character difficult, and for some reason, they always get screwed up in the middle of an action scene. Not to mention the whole 3D world in itself. 3D is great for flight sims and racing games, but if all the new games for the Gamecube are into the latest 3D fad, then I will not be purchasing it. I'd rather have ease of use than these lame-ass 3D views.
  • The Dreamcast's codename was katana. and the Playstation 2 was codenamed uhh Playstation 2. Sony has had plans for a line of Playstations from the beginning. of course the harsh realities of the Video-Game industry forced them to rethink their stragites. I remember the quasi-uproar when it leaked that Sony wanted the PS2 to come out in '98 with the PS3 sometime around now. But I digress.
  • people said that the console industry couldn't support 3 players when Sony decided to get into the game(of course nintendo brought them into it but :P). and since you say that Sega is still in it then I feel that each of the new consoles have their own advantages. The Dreamcast has been out for a year already, that gives it a bigger playerbase than the other next-gen consoles, which isn't to be overlooked. The Playstation 2 has Sony behind it, which can't be overlooked. The Gamecube has Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, Metriod, and Donkey Kong. Other than Sonic, those are Video Games. Hell I still just tell my parents I'm playing Mario just so they understand what I'm doing. Gamers will flock to those games that they know have always been good (which brings about another point about games in general, but I won't go any farther into that in this post), And Finally, the X-box has both Micro$oft behind it and Direct-X (of course technically the Dreamcast does too but I digress again) That makes it much easier for games to be ported. Of course, in my experience, the best games for either PC or console, are those that are exclusive to it (online Q2 w/Mouse & keyboard vs. mario on my NES Advantage). I think Micro$oft will force their way in, just like Sony did. and remember Competition is a good thing
  • Yeah, so, isn't that colecovision you've got stashed in your closet good enough for you then? You don't want new features and eye-candy, then stick to the classics...as for the rest of us...
  • isnt this the one that uses a power pc processor(i know.. read the article) maybe it will finaly give the powerpc the recognition it deserves
  • You are mistaken, both the SNES and the N64 launched with respectively Super Mario World and Super Mario 64, but Zelda games have never been available at launch.

    Super Zelda a.k.a. Zelda 3 a.k.a A Link To The Past came out about a year after the launch of the SNES and Zelda 64 a.k.a Zelda 5 a.k.a. The Ocarina Of Time wasn't available until two years after N64's launch.

    While it's safe to assume there will be a Super Mario Cubed to accompany the GameCube, I wouldn't expect Zelda Cubed before 2003.

  • I for one will love any company that keeps great games like those on dreamcast or playstation coming. Nintendo has crap, all crap--how many games do i still play on n64? 1-perfect dark.

  • Power... (Score:3)

    by Daemosthenes ( 199490 ) on Thursday November 30, 2000 @04:01PM (#590417)
    Is it just me, or are the consoles out now or coming out in the near future ridiculously overpowered?

    With the meager game offerings we've seen from PS2 thus far, and some of the other previews, it really seems that these GPU's (3d cards-I believe Nvidia has GPU patented) are far too powerful. It makes sense to me that companies should take a more modular approach, perhaps similar to indrema's upgradeable GPU. Right now all these super-powered graphics cards are doing is raising the price of the console,which doesn't go too well with the consumer.


    47.5% Slashdot Pure(52.5% Corrupt)
  • The Gameboy is the top selling console of all time, thanks to Pokeman.

    But what I am worried about is that The Gamecube will be another N64: Incredible hardware used for nothing but taking pictures of chipochumon and playing Mario party.

    Don't get me wrong, I love Goldeneye, Turok, and Zelda, but I need more.

    Nintendo has made many choices in the past to keep their child audience. They removed the blood from Mortal Kombat. They removed the Nazi's from Wolfenstein 3D and changed the attack dogs to rats.

    I am not buying a child's console; even if Metroid is the shit.
  • I mean, the thing that really matters for new gaming systems are the games. The way to get good games is an easy way to make them. If developpers can't use the full capabilities of the system (Sega Saturn) because of bad planning, the games will suck and/or companies will refuse to make games for them. If Nintendo wants to make money, all they need to do is come out with another Mario, Zelda, or Pokémon game.

  • Of course one reason to buy a console this time around is the fact Microsoft is trying to buy up a number of game companies. The PC games market could be awfully thin on the ground next holiday season.

    Pretty unlikely. While MS could buy out tons of game developers, the publishers are hungry enough for game titles they will start supporting new developers. The vacuum that occurs when a developer leaves the PC game market is filled pretty damned fast - there are too many companies like me who want those positions. Personally, I'd like to see MS buy out some of those developers and make them X-Box only developers - the bigger the vacuum, the better. Plus, well, maybe we can finally get some innovative titles out there, instead of so many "Me Too!" products (unluckly, it's not developer initutive that causes that, rather, it's publisher marketing that forces us to put up with so damned many FPS titles right now - they see it as being where the money is, so it's where they put thier money!)

  • No DVD? (Score:3)

    by Decado ( 207907 ) on Thursday November 30, 2000 @04:02PM (#590421)

    It cant even play DVDs. Talk about shooting themselves in the foot. How will the average 10 year old convince daddy to fork out 300 quid on a console without the old "but you can watch your DVDs on it" excuse. I think this will really backfire on Nintendo in the long run. And besides, dolphins are a popular icon in japan (the japanese version of Office 2000 here has a dolphin as an office assistant) but they dont really cut the mustard in the west where we need initials to get us going. Unless they remarked it as the ND256+ or something like that no one in the west will want one.

  • A cross-licensing deal together!

    I'd imagine Apple PCs would make excellent development platforms, as well as demonstration and testing machines.

    I'd think Connectix would love to write an emulator for Apple machines!

    I'd hope that Nintendo would gain and profit from selling ever more games! It just stands to see if those DVD-ish discs Nintendo would use are truly DVD compliant and readable by Apple machines!

    Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]


  • Xenex,


    You've made some very well conceived posts on this topic. And like you, I'm a strong proponent of Nintendo.

    I recommend, however, that you rethink a few of your comments..

    That is why Nintendo 64 software can hit the top of Sales and Rental charts - because a greater percentage of a smaller user base buying software in [sic] better then [sic] a small percentage of a huge user base.

    The thing you need to consider is friction. When a console manufacturer has to develop and market a large percentage of the titles available for the platform, it has to absorb software development and marketing costs that prohibit it from really making the HUGE bucks. The gold for a console manufacturer is in the licensing to third-party developers. If a console manufacturer can simply create a platform and then sit back and let everyone else develop the content, even if the licensing nets a small percentage of each game sold, it's a higher profit-to-cost ratio than when they've got to prime the pump with their own titles.

    Piracy is every bit as bad for the PSX as it is for the PC.

    This is simply not true. As you point out, a PSX title can be duplicated via readily available, consumer-level CDR equipment, but to play duped PSX games requires mildly-radical hardware modifications to the console. The latter is not as common as the former. I've seen very few mainstream news articles covering the impact piracy has had on the PSX platform. Of the computer users I know, a high percentage have at least one pirated piece of software on their computers. Of the PSX owners I know, only a small percentage have modified playstations that can play pirated or imported discs.

    The gameboy is a juggernaut. To have lasted this long as a platform is simply astonishing. I hope Nintendo continues to help keep competition present by bringing innovations to the market. With the X-Box, Microsoft intends to leverage its monopoly in the PC arena to aggressively invade the console arena. The biggest assett they have (forget all that hardware business, any company these days can cram a bunch of chips in a box) in coming to consoles is the cross-platform argument for developers.. ease of porting PC titles to the console. As a fan of console gaming, I don't see how I should be so excited about this. That's sort of like telling someone they should buy XYZ car because it'll enable the construction companies to convert train tracks to roads for you more easily.



    Seth
  • Matsushita has confirmed a DVD version of the gamecube will be released shortly after Nintendo's version.

    This article [ign.com] was released yesterday on cube.ign.com [ign.com].

    I'll be waiting for this one for sure!

    tsf.
  • If I'm not mistaken, the graphics chip in GameCube will automatically take care of things like anti-aliasing, lighting effects, etc., so that programmers won't have to worry about details like that (or at leats not worry as much). That is one of the big advantages NGC has over PS2, it is more developer-friendly. PS2 was rushed to hit the market, so it can be very confusing to programmers. The other big advantage that I see is that Nintendo has more franchises. They're even dusting off metroid to make an appearance on NGC. And if they can steal final fantasy from Sony, which they have a good chance of doing, then NGC will be very appealing come next october.
  • looks like there will be a return of metroid... (the best nes game ever) check out some gif movies here [world-of-video-games.com].

  • Re:Can Nintendo Survive Sony? (Score:5)

    by dark_panda ( 177006 ) on Thursday November 30, 2000 @04:44PM (#590427)
    Let's not forget that Nintendo isn't exactly strapped for cash or expertise. They might be a bit impoverished compared to the entire Sony corperation, but they're by no means poor. Last I heard, they had something like $15 billion in the bank, so they can afford some major marketing and absorb a few hits before they need to really make money back.

    Besides, they still have Shigeru Miyamoto and a truckload of mascots. Mario, Zelda and (ugh) Pokemon aren't going to be seen on the PS2 any time soon, and they can all sell machines like crazy.

    According to the interviews I've read with some of the Nintendo head honchos, they've learned their lessons from the N64's lack of a decent storage medium and its kiddie focus. The Gamecube should fare well.

    J
  • You left out price. How much is that PC? $2500? How much is Nintendo's Gamecube? No one knows, but it's expected to be under $200... Consoles don't look too bad.
  • What are you trying to say?

    That we should start making our console's LESS powerfull?

    That's like saying "Why buy a Porsche when my Geo Metro is fast enough"

    Fast enough for what?

    If you don't want a faster car then don't buy one, but don't try to take away my ability to do so.

    Besides..More power is always welcome.

    I think the main complaint about PS2 right now is that it can't even take advantage of all it's power. Right?

    And just because the current few games out for it might not be all that great doesn't mean the future games for it won't be.
    -----------------------
    Jeremy 'PeelBoy' Amberg
  • Recognition from whom? Those running large-scale IBM shops (RS/6000, et al) and in graphic design (Mac-heads) have known its power for quite a bit now. Do you mean recognition from the average clueless "Pentium 3 with cheese, please" consumer? I'm not sure Motorola needs such business.


    All generalizations are false.

  • Okay, even though the Saturn was a failure, I can understand how you would suggest it would have been a good platform for Square. In fact, many of the games published for Saturn were RPGs. But N64? I couldn't think of a worse platform for Square's games. I'm fan of Final Fantasy 1, 2, and 4, Nintedo games all three... but 7 kicked some serious ass, and I really don't think that game could have been developed for a non-CD based system.

    Conversely, the two N64 Zelda titles couldn't have been done on PSX. Each platform has its own game style, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    Square and Sony have been very good for each other, and I don't see that that partnership disintegrating any time soon. I don't expect to see Final Fantasy XIV released on a Nintendo platform.


    All generalizations are false.

  • 300 quid? More like less than $200
  • I didn't really dig the new 3D trend very much either for a long time.

    If you have an N64 do yourself a favor: check out the 3D Zelda game from last year, "Occarina of Time". I found it a genuine pleasure to play, the controls made exploring and fighting in 3D effortless.
  • Have you been paying attention to the console scene lately? Considering the way the console scene is now, not having a DVD option is not a good call. The thing is, they DO have a DVD option, a 3rd party is developing it I believe.
    Even Sega has done a 180 and has developed a DVD addon for the Dreamcast.

    Anyway, Nintedo hasn't been doing so well in the console scene lately, except for the gameboy. They aren't the console guru's you seem to think they are.

  • Forget the gamecube then, and get a Game Boy Advance. The game line up looks to be a lot of SNES-ish looking games. And if the predicted price range ($80-$100 for the system, $20-40 for the games), I know i'll be buying this before i even consider a gamecube.

    MARIO KART! HOORAY!
  • Your impression is wrong - Square is an independent company.

    Also, Squaresoft is the American subsidiary of Square - there is a distinction you should learn.

  • I'm sure GameCube'll at least have a mario game and a pokemon game or 3 (read: same game, different pokemon) at launch, if not a new Zelda or Metroid game.. theres almost always a golf game or some other sports game that noone'll ever play too.. ;) Justin
  • final fantasy 7 COULD have been developed on a cart console, and, in fact, was initially.. When development for FF7 started, square was still in bed with Nintendo, and they started writing the game for it back when it was just a glimmer in the gaming industry's eye, as the Ultra 64.. They developed it about 1/3 through the game, IIRC, and were planning to release it using the proposed N64 Bulky Drive (think zip drive for a console (I think it later became known as the 64DD before being dropped)).. But at about that point, square thought it'd be too costly to put it on multiple carts or discs like it would have required on the 64, and turned development towards the PSX..

    I've got all that information somewhere in all my old Electronic Gaming Monthly issues, if someone wants a reference I could prolly dig it out..

    Justin
  • Perfect Dark appears to be the next big franchise for Nintendo. Rare had a huge success with Goldeneye 007, so they decided to make a sequel without having to stick with an already decided [movie] plot. PD was a great game, and all indications are that they will come out with a game for NGC (possibly called PD2: After Dark). This could easily become a hit series.
  • What if the 8-bit NES came played VHS tapes? What if my microwave oven played VHS tapes? How many fucking VCR's do I need? Same with DVD players. I've got a DVD player, I don't need everything I own to play DVDs. Nintendo's aiming this as a gaming console and nothing more. Excluding DVD playback cuts the cost significantly.
  • If we are all lucky, maybe ATI will let out some tantalizing details before they are supposed to, Like they did to Apple this summer [appleturns.com].
  • This is why the X-box is such a good idea. You Linux zealots can bash Microsoft all you want, but a lot of programmers are already familiar with writing games for the PC using Direct X. There is almost no learning curve, and thus, you will begin to see a lot of very nice games available shortly after the X-boxes release
    Two things... For one the quality and type of DirectX games tend to be very different from those available on conventional consoles. At least part of this is due to the fact that input devices on consoles and on PCs have traditionally been very different, but there's also the fact that PC gamers and console gamers tend to be more different than one might thing.

    Secondly, I'm very worried that this Microsoft X-Box might end up being Microsoft's definitive .NET client, cutting out their OEMs from the low-end PC market. Microsoft recently announced that Microsoft Money will be available on X-Box, and it's not all that unreasonable that it could be a .NET client. On the other hand, Microsoft has proven time and time again, that they screw up anything new they try until version 3.0 which inevitably gains critical mass. I guess only time will tell what does, in fact, happen.

  • Before everyone gets all teary-eyed about the imminent demise of Nintendo, have a look at some of the other previews, movies, and screenshots. cube.ign.com [ign.com] has a lot of information and links to all I mentioned. The preview linked to in the article is so vague about the Gamecube's capabilities it's almost useless.

  • They've lost a lot of ground to Sony, and now Sony has launched the PS2 months before Nintendo's next-generation system will be ready.

    Do you know what the going rate for a PlayStation 2 console is? USD $5,000. Do you know what the MSRP for the GAMECUBE console is? $200-$250.

  • i noticed the article mentioned there are currently no plans to release this version in the US, only Japan so far
  • Nintendo's using a GD-ROM format, like dreamcast, IIRC.. its only a matter of creating a format on a normal cd that the drive will read, and occasionally scaling down movies/audio to make it fit on the disc.. You think the fact that many games on PS2 are DVD is stopping people from getting them? No, in fact, most the games out for PS2 already are already available for download..

    The fact that it uses a proprietary format is just gonna be another obstacle for bored hackers to overcome.. thats whats happened on Dreamcast, thats whats happened on PS2, and thats what will happen with Gamecube.

    Justin
  • :::I'd count Squaresoft as a loss but their quality has dropped miles from their days with Nintendo. FFVII and VIII were laughable at best.

    thank god someone on this board agrees with me.. Everytime theres a video game conversation on /., someone mentions rpgs, and someone else says how "FF7 is the greatest rpg ever".. I couldnt bear to play halfway through the first disc.. I got so sick of a buncha pointless fights just to watch a crappy movie.. OTOH, they still do some things right.. Xenogears and Chrono Cross are both incredible games (tho, I always say Chrono Cross would be 5x better on dreamcast, just for jaggedy cleanup), and I've heard FF9 isnt too bad, but 7 and 8 were just lousy..

    anyway, off my tangent, I think that Nintendo and Sega will both always survive, because there's always at least a market of gamers with a lot of cash to burn, willing to try anything new, and they're both pretty well known for steady innovation..

    Justin
  • :::History has proven that just because one is the head of an industry doesn't mean that people will buy blindly into it (except maybe in the case of PS2). MSFT might be the new guy, but it certainly knows games (or has paid enough people to know games for them).

    Dont you find that statement a little hypocritical? I mean, isnt that exactaly what MSFT is hoping to do with X-Box? Use the fact that its an industry leader already (not in the same market, mind you), hoping people will buy it instead of the PS2 or Gamecube, because of the Microsoft logo?

    Personally, I think Gamecube has a better chance, because a lot of video gamers find one or 2 companies, and stick to them like glue.. (Most the anime freaks here in San Antonio hate Sony, but adore Nintendo and Sega..) If nothing else, you have the people who are Nintendo buffs buying it cuz its Nintendo, kids buying it for Pokemon, and old gamers buying it for nostalgia (new metroid game, how is that not a reach for nostalgia sales?).. Microsoft is going to have to prove itself to the gamers that they can handle a console, and make it successful.. Nintendo wont have that obstacle, because people will know that they'll support it for the length of its life..

    Justin
  • Wolfenstein 3D was a long time ago.

    If it makes you feel any better, the last game I was involved with for the N64 only had to have 'religious symbols' and 'alcohol references' removed.
    All the violence, gore and innuendo survived and even a cigar (smoking references BAD!) got into the game 'cos it was related to the license.
  • I don't know what your talking about when you say that most people have bought the console they want for christmas allready. Because if your refurning to the PS2 witch I think that you are you have to be insane. This is because NO ONE can get a PS2! were have you been the last 3 months.

    Anouther thing that was said before you don't buy a console system to watch dvd. You buy it for the games. What has this world come to when you can over price a product and under sell it have crapy games and people still flock to buy it. PS2 has nothing I would want besides UT and I would rather play that on computer.

    One last thing DC is almost as good as PS2 and the go for 200 dollers in canada. And I like it (though I will probly buy the new Gamecube just because I love nintendo)it replaced my 64 verry nicely even thought I cry myself to sleep now that Zelda 2 is comming out ;(

    About the dvd fight. buy a new dvd player if you want or watch vhs come on there not that bad. and a dvd player isn't insanely priced that you would have to buy a 500+ system to play them. I mean you have to play the games too thats what there made for!

  • The disks are small things. They don't fit into DVD-RAMs, CD-R/RW drives, or anything you can likely buy except for the gaming cube.

    You act like it's just some software format difference. :P

    If you want to explain how you'd get a normal CD into a slot built for a 2.5" disk, let me know.

  • Huh? This makes zero sense. They're going to the extra expense and bother of developing yet another optical disc format, and we're supposed to thank them for giving us a "choice"? Where's the logic here?
  • HOW does excluding DVD cut the price? All the same chips are still there...they've just got to make a different shaped plastic hole to accept the larger DVD's. They're excluding this feature to get ppl to shell out for the more expensive one.
  • The same way nintendo has lost to PSX, it will lose, ultimately, to the X-Box. Design problems inherent in the N64 (expensive cartridges) and lack of software titles has plagued the sales of this otherwise amazing console. Ultimately, the pure muscle of MSFT's money and developer relations (the fact that it OWNS bungee, mostly) will out-class the N64 in # of quality software titles. The only thing N64 has going for it software wise is the genius designer Miyamoto (whose work EVERYONE admires). As for other capabilities, X-Box will beat it in specs, too, and the fact that the bungee team probably knows the hardware well enough to release quality games geared towards a more mature (and therefore more likely to spend money on games) crowd (Halo, Myth 3, anyone?). And as well, because of the similarities in PC developement, there will be more developers able to push the limits of the X-Box faster than those who will push the limits of the GameCube. On the whole scale, the GameCube has already lost. History has proven that just because one is the head of an industry doesn't mean that people will buy blindly into it (except maybe in the case of PS2). MSFT might be the new guy, but it certainly knows games (or has paid enough people to know games for them). I still haven't been able to pick out one bad thing about the X-Box, except the fact that it's money in Gates's pocket. We'll see in 2001.
  • The only problem is that by the time the Gamecube comes out, the PS2 will be cheaper and easily available and right now, Sony has much more 3rd part support then Nintendo. Remember, Square, Konami and company were Nintendo developers and jumped ship to Sony. Nintendo will need to show something much better then Sony is doing to get those developers back. Of course, this is all based on past history and assumption, so it may be completely incorrect when things actually go down.

  • you would think that by now all console manufacturers would notice that just about all gamers want BROADBAND

    And there will be broadband adapters for both the Sony PS2 and GAMECUBE consoles. They're just not ready right now because broadband reaches very few homes in the target markets. Not all gamers can afford to pack up and move to a location where decent non-AOL non-Windows-only-in-TOS DSL/cable service is available.

    Why not just add in an ethernet port?

    And force players to buy a network hub, four GAMECUBE consoles, four copies of each game, four monitors, and four speaker systems? I'd rather

  • I kind of view console gaming the same way I view internet appliances now. They are directed more at the less geekier population that doesn't go out and spend $1000 on upgrading their computer every year to the latest processor and video card. There are a lot of these types of people out there.

    Think about how many kids < 10 years old there are at any point in time. A lot of these kids won't have a fully tweaked out Athlon box with Geforce Ultra 2, it would be too much money. But, mom and dad might be willing to spring for a $300 console that will last 2 years or so. That's a huge market.

    Personally, I'll stick with my PC, but then again, I have the means and the know how to keep it up to date.

    Just my $0.02

  • Remember back when consoles were milked of all their power before abandoning the system.

    Fifteen years, and the NES console is still being milked. Download an emulator and head over to NESdev [parodius.com] and get some of Chris Covell's NES software, or try my GNOME vs. KDE: Battle of the Desktops [8m.com] for the NES.

  • Do you remember when the N64 came out? How bout the Super Nintendo? Albeit, not as bad as the PS2, they weren't exactly easy to come by. They also came out circa pre E-Bay so it wasn't possible to just go and bid some obscene amount of money for the console. By next October, the PS2 will be available everywhere and the price will probably have dropped once which will make the Gamecube more expensive.

    Unless the Gamecube offers something very good, it's going to hurt Nintendo pretty badly. They lost most of their 3rd party support to Sony after the N64, and a good number of their fans (myself included).

    But back to point, the MSRB is meaningless until we see how many units are produced; the MSRB of a PS2 is $300, not $5000.
  • The ethernet isn't for local multi-player, its for the cable modem/DSL modem. Most of them connect to the computer via ethernet.
    FunOne

  • The ethernet isn't for local multi-player, its for the cable modem

    Cable is often limited to 80 kilobits upstream or worse. Besides, what if you live in an area where the city has contracted Time Warner as your local cable monopoly? After the merger, you will have to have an Intel architecture x86 box running a Microsoft brand Windows 98/ME brand operating system and the AOL client to be able to use your cable modem. Unless Nintendo licenses the AOL protocols for the GAMECUBE console, you won't have cable access.

    DSL modem

    Until the fiber-to-the-curb infrastructure is complete, DSL is available only within 12,000 feet of the central switch. In a large city such as Houston, there are huge gaps in DSL coverage, meaning essentially that a fellow has to pack up and move next to the telco's central switch to get a DSL connection.

  • If you want 100 clones of mario kart but from nintendo.

    Bull schmidt, Nintendo pioneered several genres on N64:

    • cartoon go-kart racing (Nintendo/EAD's Mario Kart 64; Nintendo/Rare's Diddy Kong Racing) although I admit Sony did a good job of cloning MK64 in CTR
    • multiplayer board game with minigames (Nintendo/Hudson Soft's Mario Party)
    • multiplayer cartoon fighting game (Nintendo/'s )
    • multiplayer puzzle games (Nintendo/H2O's Tetrisphere and The New Tetris; Nintendo/Intelligent's )
    • photography games (Pokemon Snap; Rare's Perfect Dark supports Nintendo's Game Boy Camera)
  • Well enjoy the 10 games that were made for it.
  • The original point still stands. Like you said, Perfect Dark is from Rare (i'm going on what you said here). The first post is correct, Nintendo needs more then themselves and Rare to survive. Having Square and Konami back would help alot.
  • There's no doubt that Nintendo's kept its mouth shut during all the PS2/X-Box/DC hype, seeing as many people haven't even heard the word 'GameCube' before, and still think of the console under its original project code name, 'Dolphin'. But it's all in marketing tactics. If they attempted to release information on their console during the flood and swarms of PS2 hype and publicity (which is still going on), even Nintendo themself would've drowned, and failed to get significant attention. Right now, Nintendo's simply relying on their sole reputation as a console/1st party game developer to attract media and consumer attention. Of course the launch is when you'll be hearing about it, and, well, getting that damned 6-sided thing in your house. Anyway, that's my guess, occasional leakage of certain hardware specs will only be noticed (as well as cared) by Nintendo's desperate, diehard fans that are familiar and interested in the GameCube's architecture. I am just tired of people complaining about the lack of information given by Nintendo, they should really consider the factors first.

    The PS2, however, is already overpowering the GameCube's pre-retail conquest, as it can play DVDs, and games from the PSX. The real question is whether the GameCube will win the match against Sony's amazing feature-packed juggernaut console. Nintendo's tactics does have drawbacks, and of course they'll pay for it.

    Sony does have a large chance beating GameCube sales and, as far as sheer features go, it definitely seems to be advantageous in sales combat against other consoles. You have to remember, though, that a large amount of people don't even care about the specs and features. You have to please as many people as you can, and Nintendo doesn't seem to be fulfilling that objective, and with this console, I don't think they will.

    Jawa
  • Sega and Nintendo have two things that Sony and Microsoft don't have. Icons. Microsoft technically has Icons but they are typically 32x32@8-bit. When I was a kid Mario was the biggest thing since picking your nose. To my younger brother Sonic has more of a pervading presence. The SNES and Genesis popped out more iterations of their mainline characters than crackwhores in the projects. Walkt Disney did the same fucking thing in the fifties, he made a bunch of icons kids wet their pants over with an encircled R on the bottom meaning someone somewhere got a dollar for every penny it costs to make the product. Also, console makers do not sell their fucking hardware at a fucking loss. They don't build these things one at a time, they order tens of thousands of them (in Sony's case a million). The cost of a million of these is much less per console than a small handful of them. Nintendo, Sony, Sega, and Microsoft aren't going to take a loss on their consoles, the profit is almost entirely flat. The consoles are needed in order to sell the real cash cow, the games. Good console games will sell heavily (sometimes 1 per console) which means the licensing fees for those games is stupendous; the console makers shoot their wad of NRE into developing the boxes but then the sales of extremely popular games like Zelda or Gran Tourismo make all of that back and more.
    On the technical side, Nintendo has gone back to their unique innards architecture that served them well with the NES and SNES. The N64 was impressive for its time but didn't really stand head and shoulders of the technology for long enough. Up until a year or two ago the PSX still had better graphics than your average PC and it came out before the N64. The Gamecube might get a lukewarm acceptance from the media unlike the PS2 but I think customers will really eat it up. Icons are what sell shit to little kids and parents. Nintendo's got Mario and Donkey Kong and can easily market the shit out of them to prepubescents.
  • Are you trying to be dumb?
    This inflated price is because of the small supply, remember that nice supply and demand curve you learned in Economics? Once Sony gets off their asses, and produces, we'll see people paying msrp again. The same thing could possibly happen if Nintendo doesn't produce enough units.

    -dennis
  • Also, I propose that the reason the PS is much bigger than the 64 is not because of the cartridge vs cd issue at all, but rather one of marketing.
    Wrong, and for one reason: time. With the NES/SNES (not sure if the same system held for the n64), a company would create a game, then order X amount of carts from Nintendo; there was no other source. They had to order a load; three months later, they'd get them. This presented two real possibilities: order too few, and miss the wave, or order too many, and take a bath. Sony, on the other hand, with the PSX, went with fully standard CDs, other than the bad sector copy protection. This means a) once you write a game, you can get it pressed anywhere, and b) you can order a small run, and if it takes off, you can have your stocks completely refilled in three days. This meant you could take a chance on lesser titles. There were, of course, other factors, like Nintendo requiring final veto power over any title, blah blah blah, and lets not forget: The N64 was a flop *compared to the NES and SNES*. By any other standard, it was a success. Nintendo is like Microsoft; they can blow millions on a project, decide they don't like the colour of it, throw it out, and never notice. They'll put out a good product this time around.
  • The thing is, they DO have a DVD option, a 3rd party is developing it I believe.

    Yeah Matsudkdhdkjsdhj is planing to release a DVD version in Japan, however, even if it even sees the light of day there, I doubt a Panasonic branded version would ever see the light of day outside the land of the rising sun (bad pun intended).

    Even Sega has done a 180 and has developed a DVD addon for the Dreamcast.

    Really? That seems odd, and a waste, considering that the Dreamcast's games are only on Sega's GD-ROM format. Sega are really going to re-release a console that was dead-in-the-water from the beginning and dying now to add an expencive add-on? Even if they do, it won't save the dead Dreamcast. Personally, I've been saying for years they'd make more money focusing on the arcade and porting to Nintendo and Sony consoles (and then there are the constant rumours that Microsoft will buy them....)

    Anyway, Nintedo hasn't been doing so well in the console scene lately, except for the gameboy.

    Lately? In the last 2 generations of console preceding the current 'next generation' consoles (N64, PSX, Saturn), Nintendo was more sucessful with their NES over the SMS and the SNES over the Mega Drive/Genesis (sales of the SNES were massive towards the end of it's life cycle, with a low price and Donkey Kong Country storming the entire video game market in late 1994). So Nintendo were not number one this generation? So what. They've still profited quite well from the N64 and it's software, they are hardly going broke off it. I personally see the next set of consoles being closer, back like the 16-bit days. but a 3 way split instead of 2 ways, with Nintendo's Gamecube, Sony's PS2 and Microsoft's Xbox. Nintendo have the franchises and the 'traditional' gamers, Sony have the 'cool' gamers and the Playstation 2 hype (though under supplying hardware was a very bad idea), and Microsoft have the money to get any 3rd party they want, and to push into any established market they want.

    They aren't the console guru's you seem to think they are.

    If talking hardware, they are this generation, with the Gamecube being much easier to develop for over the PS2. Nintendo also are willing to change things with their controller... such as a new button style layout, that if studied looks like it will be excellent. And then we could look into the last generation's hardware. Nintendo managed to make Sony redesign their controls twice, 1st with their anologue release, and then a 2nd time to add their 'dual shock' to copy the rumble pak's effect (which isn't all that wonderful anyway).

    If you mean the market, I think otherwise. Nintendo do know what they did wrong in the last generation with the Nintendo 64, and they have taken steps to rectify it. People, including Nintendo themselves, have come out calling the Gamecube the 'anti-Nintendo 64'. Any company that can come out insulting their last console like that can see things realistically.

    If you mean software, Nintendo are the console guru's. Who else is? Sony and their 3rd Party drones spinning out crappy mass produced software, oh-so rarely making something half decent?. Sega and their constant console failing (apart from the Mega Drive/Genesis that managed a 50/50 split)? Or Microsoft, a company that has yet to release definate specs and a fucking console design, much less an actual piece of console hardware before, that will be relying TOTALLY on 3rd Party and companies it has assimilated?

    Nintendo are the only company that constantly innovates in both hardware and software. With their Miyamoto-lead in-house development constantly creating classic games in the Mario, Zelda, and other francises, to the ideas that spawn total new types of games (Super Mario Kart single handly created the 'cartoon karting game genre'), to 'idea' games such as the prototype Catroots (look on IGN64 [ign.com] somewhere, Nintendo are the console gaming gods. And with a 2nd Party like Rare, and creating a new Rare-like company called Retro Studios, Nintendo will be the company making the quality games for some time to come.

    Oh, of course, there could be a maturity rant now, but is someone that really thinks that maturity = blood and violence, then perhaps they need to rethink their maturity. Wave Race was a 'mature' game. Excite Bike 64 was a 'mature' game (and a great flashback). Just because a game isn't violent does not mean it's not entertaining, it's just some sad people tend to think otherwise.

    Nintendo ARE the console gurus. This is not measured by sales, or by the fact that their last console didn't sell as well as their competition's. This is measured in what it is that they do. And the constant quality of the products they have produced over the past 15 years all says that Nintendo are the gurus.

  • I think you've made an uneducated post, and next time you should make an attempt to know the topic you are posting on.

    Why are you bitching about him being uneducated, when you two are discussing video games?

  • Want another benefit? No "loading..." messages on N64.
  • Samus (Aran?)

    I think (somewhere) I saw screenshots of a new Metroid game for Gamecube. Could be BS, but it was a cool picture of Samus running down a hallway with a giant flame/explosion coming after her.

    Of course, there supposedly was going to be a Metroid for N64.. and there wasn't. Anyone have more information about Metroid on the Cube?

  • I'd rather get a gamecube. If Nintendo release games based on classics, so be it. At least you can bet that the games are top notch. PS on the other hand, have a focus to quantity, and that just dosen't cut it for me.

    N64 wasn't a flop, it was the console of quality.
  • Unless your really good with scissors have fun fitting a CD into a machine that takes SMALLER CD'S!
  • The death of console gaming has been proclaimed time and time again. It's not going to happen. You can talk about specs, gf2's, and athlons all you want, but that doesnt matter. Games matter. As long as there are developers who like to work on standardized platforms, console games will continue to sell.

    The psx launched in 94. Thats 6 years ago. And just the other day I saw a commercial for a psx game on tv (yes, PSX, not PS2). The reason? Console game quality evolves as developers learn the ins and outs of a system. So, games coming out for a 6 year old machine are way better than the ones that it launched with. Is that true for the PC? Will a machine I bought 6 years ago even play a game released this year? Or do I have to go shell out a couple thousand on a gf2 and athlon?

    Now you tell me which is the better gaming investment.


    --
  • I have to admit, I'm more than a little worried about Nintendo.

    I wouldn't be. Nobody would argue that Miyamoto isn't the Carmack of consoles, and they do have arguably two of the biggest games of all time.

    I (and millions like me) will buy a Gamecube over a PSX2 for one reason, and one reason only, and that reason is Zelda. The N64 was hardly a flop, either.

    Also, I propose that the reason the PS is much bigger than the 64 is not because of the cartridge vs cd issue at all, but rather one of marketing. To joe 6-pack (of pepsi max), owning a nintendo is just something to play 007 on- but a playstation, now that's cool, you can get tony hawk's, and the x games games. Playstation was on telly every 20 minutes, it's in movies, "everybody's got 'em, i need one"...

    Given the basicly evil alignment of the Sony corp, and they're microsoft-worthy success due to marketing, I'm rather suprised they're loved by the mob here at slashdot.

    Gfunk


    --Gfunk

  • console games used to have a 6 year lifespan. That's shrinking to 3 years.

    Try 5 years:

    • PSX (1994); PS2 (2000).
    • Genesis (1989); Saturn (1994); Dreamcast (1999) but Sega realized Saturn was a lost cause anyway.
    • SNES (1991); N64 (1996); GAMECUBE (2001).

    The PC cycle is twice as fast anyway, and PCs cost $1000 instead of $250.

    The PS2 is quite advanced but hard to code for.

    The PSX had a decent libc (C runtime library) when it was first released. Sony PS2 was rushed too fast to get a libc developed.

    Since nintendo's PowerPC comes from IBM it probably doesn't have altivec and that leaves it depending on the (for a risc chip) weak FPU powerpc's are known for.

    Which is more than overcome by the hardware everything on the chipset. (This is how Sony overcame the lack of an FPU in PSX.) Besides, how do you know that the FPU hasn't been enhanced in PowerPC Gekko (not to be confused with Mozilla Gecko or Geico Direct auto insurance)?

    and I don't see how Microsoft (with the best outlook)

    Helix Code has a better outlook, and it's called Evolution [helixcode.com].

  • Can Nintendo Survive Sony? (Score:3)

    by atomic pixie ( 258251 ) on Thursday November 30, 2000 @04:05PM (#590489) Homepage
    I have to admit, I'm more than a little worried about Nintendo.

    It will be difficult for them to recover from the mistake of not using CD's in the N64. I just hope they've learned their lessons, and there aren't any more technical 'surprises' in the Game Cube. They've lost a lot of ground to Sony, and now Sony has launched the PS2 months before Nintendo's next-generation system will be ready.

    If Nintendo goes down for good, the days of the console price wars are over, and I for one will miss that. Also, I suspect that having two heavyweights keeps game prices down. As much as I love Sony's consoles, I hope the Game Cube to kicks ass and really raise the bar on home entertainment.

    Microsoft, though, can go to hell :)
  • "Can't wait for 3d game boy"

    I'll bite. That's already been done. Check here [telegames.co.uk]

    It was quite possibly the worst selling gaming system of all time.

  • Itty-bitty living space...

    Why is it ridiculous? These machines are expected to have a lifespan of 5-8 years... In 3 or 4 years, I'd think the average PC would match their performance, and in only 2 years a top of the line PC would theoretically blow them away...

    This is just 'futureproofing' their products.

    Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]
  • A couple points:

    1) Pretty much all recent 3D chips have hardware anti-aliasing, and lighting. PS2 included. The problem with anti-aliasing and the PS2 is that it's VERY slow. The performance hit is unacceptable, so programmers turn it off.

    2) PS2 isn't confusing to developers because it was "rushed to market" -- developer confusion always stems from fundamental design choices. In this case, the multi-chip architecture where each chip serves a different, or somewhat overlapping purpose results in a very different and complex programming model.

    3) While old-school gamers will remember fondly more Nintendo franchises, the younger crowd tends to know non-Nintendo franchises more. FF is just one such franchise and I wouldn't count on a GC version.

    -JF

  • my thoughts on it :) (Score:3)

    by garcia ( 6573 ) on Thursday November 30, 2000 @04:09PM (#590498)
    you would think that by now all console manufacturers would notice that just about all gamers want BROADBAND and not modems. The Playstation2 comes w/USB ports out the ass. Why not just add in an ethernet port? Why include a modem and not ethernet. That is my idea at least.

    In the article they mention that they finally went to an optical medium for the data storage. I personally prefered the quick load times on the N64 to the slow constant loading on the PS1. That is just personal opinion though.

    Just my worthless .02

  • Re:Specs don't matter? (Score:5)

    by jfrisby ( 21563 ) on Thursday November 30, 2000 @04:11PM (#590499) Homepage
    The interesting thing to note is that while the PlayStation 2, like the Sega Saturn is suffering from developer confusion (I.E. developers have a whole lot to learn before they can take advantage of its capabilities) the GameCube is designed from the ground up to be a developer-friendly platform.

    I read an interview with someone -- maybe Shigeru Miyamoto? -- about how when the N64 launched with Mario 64 showing off what it could do, developers were blindsided by the difficulty of programming for the system. They assumed a Mario-like game would be easy when in fact the platform had a number of bottlenecks and quirks that made development difficult. GameCube is apparently meant to address such difficulties.

    -JF
  • Console gaming isn't going away. Having to keep your PC rigged for games and real work is a pain in the arse. I gave up on that years ago. I now have two consoles astride my entertainment center. On one speaker is a PS1. On the other is a SNES with a SuperGameboy adapter. Good games are good games regardless of the platform they're on. In fact, just to prove a point I'm going to buy a SNES game today.

    Dedicated games machines are not going anywhere, and consoles -- regardless of vintage -- are the best of breed...

  • *ROFL*

    You do that.

    'Comrade'. ;)

  • Wait until the Dolphin or whatever Nintendo is calling their new system comes out and you will see that the PS2 games at that time will kick the shit out of it.

    I almost agree with you. However, there are 2 things I'd have you look at first: Mario and Zelda. These 2 names alone pack a LOT of punch w/gamers (at least w/me), and they are Nintendo's own brands. The release of the SNES was accompanied by Super Mario World (STILL an awesome game) and Zelda 3. The release of the N64 was accompanied by Mario 64 (not exactly shabby) and Zelda: Ocarina (odd instrument, great cart). If they stick to their (profit-enhancing) trend, the launch of the Gamecube will be worth watching, even for just those 2 games. Now after that, yes, I'd expect the quality to trickle off a bit.

    But then again, Nintendo is a little stricter about control over their games (as other posters have noted), so I don't expect to see anything TOO ugly.

    The real question, for me, is if they'll give in to (continue?) the evil trend of selling their console sans game at launch time.
  • 2 years ago, the licensing fees for Tekken 3 on playstation was *the*largest* single source of income for Sony corportion. A third party wrote the game.

    Let me paraphrase this:

    A single third party game made more money than any of sony's other products.

    This easially makes up for money lost on console production, launches, and failing game companies.

    For every game company that fails, there are two people out there that want to start one. Shortage of companies should not be an issue for a long time.

    Sig:
  • Nintendo, if they only wanted to make money, would have made Pokemon card games for Dreamcast, with online play, or Pokemon racing games, for the PSX...

    Me, I can't fathom their strategy. Well, actually, I can guess.

    By releasing a atomic box, the GameCube and the GameBoyA, they can lure and entice developers.

    "We have a fixed platform. It'll be easy to develop for, without future driver or incompatibility issues."
    "We use PPC and ATI. It's as easy as buying a G4^2 box and our development kit."

    Still, they should probably have separate software and hardware divisions, for maximum profitability, with reduced or zero licensing costs for internal development.

    That way we can get the games we want on the platforms we want... Nintendo could get more money by selling more games... and then they could compete, platform for platform, technologically, with the increased funds.

    Though I guess there is still the fear that releasing games on competing hardware is suicidal...

    Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]
  • It's not that the GPU's are too powerful, it's just that no one has had enough time to learn to write code well for the PS2. Whenever any system is first introduced, the games suck. The software designers who are coding these games need to learn an ENTIRELY new set of hardware and an entirely new set of instructions for each console that is released. That learning process takes time. Wait until the Dolphin or whatever Nintendo is calling their new system comes out and you will see that the PS2 games at that time will kick the shit out of it.

    This is why the X-box is such a good idea. You Linux zealots can bash Microsoft all you want, but a lot of programmers are already familiar with writing games for the PC using Direct X. There is almost no learning curve, and thus, you will begin to see a lot of very nice games available shortly after the X-boxes release

    Companies like Sega, Sony, and Nintendo are not in the market to make money off their hardware anyway. They will sell the consoles for as little as they need to, often taking a loss on the initial investment of the console. Their profit comes in the form of liscensing and selling dev kits to software developers.

  • Re:No DVD? (Score:3)

    by Xenex ( 97062 ) <xenex&opinionstick,com> on Thursday November 30, 2000 @10:36PM (#590518) Journal
    Daddy forked out the money for the NES, the Game Boy, the SNES, the N64; they didn't playback DVD or any other media of the time. I don't think Nintendo were shot in the foot then, and this will be no different. Nintendo is marketing a GAMING PLATFORM, not a 'Home entertainment and internet connected central electronic hub'.

    Nintendo have, and will always be, primarily a company that makes games, that's what they want, and that is what has constantly made them money. The company has profited well enough on the N64, and is making an absolute killing with the Game Boy at the moment.

    And, why the HELL are you ranting about Dolphins. It a CODENAME that is GONE. Like it says in the title of this story, and in the story posted in August, the name is 'Gamecube' (lowercase c, alot of people get that wrong). What was the PS2's codename? What was the Dreamcast's codename? Most people don't know/remember them, so why the hell do you think Nintendo's will be any different?

    I think you've made an uneducated post, and next time you should make an attempt to know the topic you are posting on.

  • Re:Can Nintendo Survive Sony? (Score:4)

    by Xenex ( 97062 ) <xenex&opinionstick,com> on Thursday November 30, 2000 @10:53PM (#590519) Journal
    Nintendo have in fact profited from the Nintendo 64, with incredibly strong first party software sales, and strong second party (eg Rare) sales. When you have a console that doesn't have a huge selection of software, but a a few truly excellent games released each year from the 1st and 2nd parties, a fair chunk of the user base buys them. That is why Nintendo 64 software can hit the top of Sales and Rental charts - because a greater percentage of a smaller user base buying software in better then a small percentage of a huge user base.

    Also, Nintendo have one huge advantage over Sony- piracy. Piracy is every bit as bad for the PSX as it is for the PC. However, with their cartrage, and soon proprietory (but inexpencive) optical discs, Nintendo have been alot safer then Sony from the pirating scene (I'm not trying to say Nintendo products aren't pirated, quite the opposite, but compared to Sony with common household equiptment able to burn their CDs, Nintendo's problem is practically zero.)

    And one final thing to keep Nintendo afloat: you know how well the Game Boy is doing now? Very fucking well. Even before the Pokemon craze the things were starting to sell more again, and with the Game Boy Advance upcoming and fully backwards compatible (fully = it has the Gameboy Color chipset onboard AS WELL as it's new 32-bit processor), and no real competition in the foreseeable future, this is one market Nintendo has 100% penatration in it. Cracking into the handheld game market is like trying to crack into Microsoft's x86 OS market (except Nintendo isn't breaking the law [please, don't paste me any of the crap about stuff Nintendo have done in the past that could be seen as anti-competitive, I know, I know]).

    Nintendo have, and are, making money. If they manage a userbase equal to the N64's with the Gamecube, they'll survive fine. But, the Gamecube will get a bigger market then the N64, just read about the advantages of the thing here [ign.com] to see why.

  • Oh, you mean like Spiro the Dragon, and Crash Team Racing?

    Oh, no, wait, they are Playstaion clones of Super Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64....

    There is not a game on the Playstation that I want. I'm a hell of alot happier with the 15 or so incredibly high quality games I have on my Nintendo 64. If I wanted lame sport games or mass produced crap, I'd get a PSX. But I'm happy with quality thanks anyway.

    Give me Nintendo and Rare over the shit that comes from Sony and their 3rd parties.

  • There is a slight flaw to your arugment here. I agree with you, but you omit the fact developing on a new system does not mean writing to the metal. In fact, very rarely (contrary to what every game development article would have you believe) do people write games in assembly or machine code, but maybe tweak the occassional function. The problem is the support from the hardware/system manuacturers. They essentially force the developer to make many incorrect guesses as to how to optimize code, making their lives difficult. And of course, the development tools (if you use theirs, which I am sure to an extent you do) are not mature enough initially to handle what the average consumer assumes the system can do at launch time. Anyway, again you have a good point, but the tools to be more mature, and the system developers need to get the information out in an orderly fashion to facilitate 3rd party development.
  • Here's the deal - console games used to have a 6 year lifespan. That's shrinking to 3 years. This basically halves return on investment for new console systems.

    There are 4 major players in the console war now.
    Sega, Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony - all are trying to get exclusive development deals so that hot games only come out on their platforms. There's not that many good titles, some platforms are going to get screwed and all will have to pay for exclusive development.

    A lot of the major game houses are struggling - see fatbabies [fatbabies.com] for the industry gossip. This means even fewer titles and thus less profit for the console makers.

    Consoles don't turn a profit - as ESR likes to remind us, they sell below cost and make it up on game sales. The current shortage of parts will exacerbate this problem.

    Console launches are expensive - it takes a lot of investment capital to launch a new platform. Microsoft is avoiding this by using off the shelf technologies, and it looks like nintendo is doing the same, but that leaves sony and sega in the cold.

    PC's are top of the line technologically speaking - a 1.2ghz athlon with a gf2 ultra packs a lot of horsepower combined with a lot of excellent libraries and developer know-how. The PS2 is quite advanced but hard to code for. Since nintendo's PowerPC comes from IBM it probably doesn't have altivec and that leaves it depending on the (for a risc chip) weak FPU powerpc's are known for. The dreamcast uses PowerVR - a tech that was way to shitty for the PC platform - oops. The X-Box is sound here since it basically is just a PC with parts removed.

    I don't see room for 4 companies in this market, and I don't see how Microsoft (with the best outlook) can sell a stripped down pc that is limited by TV set resolutions.

    Consoles are in trouble.

    --Shoeboy

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