Virtual ISS Tournament 53
Dahamma writes "I saw on Voodoo Extreme that NASA has modeled a "Virtual International Space Station" in Unrealty, an architectural modeling package using the Unreal engine. Download is already a little slow, though, and I can't imagine a /. post will help that..."
Ahh, but . . . (Score:2)
Re:They should just put it out as a Q3A level (Score:1)
* Clive Barker's Undying [ea.com]. Finally a new horror game with a really good plot? (Like System Shock 2)
* Unreal Warfare. 200 times more polygons in levels and characters than UT had. Double the world size. T&L. Better AI. Better everything. *drool*
* Thief 3 and Deus Ex 2. Yees!! Warren Specter! With UnrealEd2 they get all the tools, graphics, AI etc for free and can spend all time on making a good plot and a believable worlds.
All use the Unreal engine, funnily enough. :-)
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Re: Just look at the facts sometime. (Score:1)
:-)
I'll just put it all together here for simplicitys sake:
>That's a laugh. You have to have a piece of Tim Sweeney's brain installed in your cranium just to do anything productive with Unrealed
That is really not true. I am a really crappy programmer. No doubt about that. I suck about equally at C/C++ and Java. The Unreal editor is not hard at all. I could figure out how to do lots of stuff without reading anything. There are lots of tutorials around for UnrealEd. I have not found anything like that for Q3. Granted, I haven't exactly searched for it, so if you tell me there are tutorials around I'll take your word for it.
>The Unreal Engine does very stupid things with decals
Examples? I know that in Q3 marks do not appear on curved surfaces, it is quite noticable.
>and sometimes entire brushes disappear from view at certain angles
I have not noticed this. What graphics card do you have? Have you tried downloading the latest patch for UT?
>From its 256x256x8bpp texture restriction (yes, I know the new rehash of the Unreal engine extended that to 2048x2048, but that's VAPORWARE!)
It's not vaporware. It is included in a functioning version available to licensees. Calling everything that hasn't been released yet vaporware is making the term meaningless. But I guess it only applies to products you don't like?
>to the lackluster collision detection (in every deathmatch, I see some weapon just sitting up in the air near a wall; obviously, the bounding boxes are too big and the weapon's bounding box is sitting on a T-junction or something
Again, I must say I have not seen these things.
>to the abysmally low quality of the levels and character models themselves (creating higher-polycount models/maps is near impossible due to numerous constraints)
Oh give it a rest. They might not have as much eye candy as Q3, but artistically they are much better in my opinion. The higher polycount argument is just plain wrong. Anyone who download the tech demo (months old) can see that you are talking out of your ass. The latest release notes say the engine is now capable of 200 times the polygon count of the old levels, and twice the map size.
>the Unreal engine is just too outdated
Which was why it was ported without problem to the PS2? And the reson they won an award for best engine just a couple of days ago? It is being updated all the time. The glide problem has been fixed. They get new licensees all the time.
>Furthermore, 3dfx is dead; Tim Sweeney saw that one coming, so he defected from them and started leeching from NVidia [...]Tim Sweeney was "pimpin' his mad skillz"
So because you prefer a f*cking computer game before another one you are doing poisonous ad hominem attacks aginst the guy who made the other game? Someone who has done nothing against you? Maybe you should get a life? The reason the first Unreal engine was almost impossible to run on anything else than Glide was because when it was first released, 3DFX were the only 3D card makers in town? Have you already forgotten this? Just about the only competition was the S3 Virge graphics de-accelerator. And at the moment nVidia are the dominant PC graphics card makers, like it or not. So optimising your game for nVidia cards is not "leeching up", it is something called a "smart move".
>Also, the netcode in UT still sucks (with a 300 ping, UT is absolutely unplayable, while Counter-Strike is decent to good, and Q3 is pretty good).
It works just fine for me. Again, have you downloaded a recent patch?
>He said, "Nah, get Half-Life. Unreal sucks."
Oh good, I guess that settles all then. Good to see you tried to find out for yourself with an open mind.
>How many prominent Unreal licensees are there in the near future? None that I've heard of.
That doesn't really surprise me. Try: Deus Ex 2. Duke Nukem Forever. Hired Guns. New Legends. Seraphim. Shadows of Reality. Star Trek Deep Space Nine: The Fallen. Clive Barker's Undying. Unreal 2. Unreal Warfare. X-Com: Alliance.
And the old ones: Rune. Deus Ex. Unrealty. Nerf: Arena Blast. Unreal 1. Unreal Tournament. Star Trek: Klingon Honor Guard. Wheel of Time.
>How many future Id Software-engine titles? Two (including the next DOOM).
Ooohhh. Impressive *sarcastic applause*
>I didn't mention Deus Ex because I didn't know what engine that ran on. Unlike SOME people here, I don't like to assume anything.
Sure....sure..... as we all could see.
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Re: Just look at the facts sometime. (Score:1)
Thank you, thank you. *bows deeply* Here is another long boring rant. Hopefully less inflammatory. I'm in a better mood now.
>As for my detailed reasons, wait until I put up my categorized "Unreal Sucks" webpages. I've already sent most of my grudges against Unreal to Tim Sweeney himself. On some of them, he admitted to something that could've been fixed.
Sure, I'm not saying UT, UnrealEngine or UnrealEd are perfect. There are lots of things that annoy me with them too (like the initially poor support for non-glide cards, and not-very-optimal OpenGL support still there for instance). I just got a bit peeved that you were slamming them for things that were patently untrue (like claiming Q3 came out first - UT was actually out in the shops around a month before). As for the Unreal sucks page...ok, sure, whatever makes you happy.
>As for the upcoming Unreal licensees, how many of them will score above 75% on PC Gamer? I'm forecasting only 4 of them will garner any good reviews (DNF's delay is its Achilles' heel).
I think you are unfairly biased again. Deus Ex 2 and Unreal Warfare have the great old teams, no known competition on the way, and should be almost guaranteed instant hits (~95%) unless they really screw up for some unforseen reason. I also have high hopes for Clive Barker's Undying and Unreal 2. Seraphim seems interesting. The rest are really too far away to comment on.
>As for the upcoming Id licensees, they're all but guaranteed to be excellent.
Lets hope so. I really don't care which engine they use, as long as the games are good. But I really think id have lost their creative spark. They are doing essentially the same one or two games again and again and again. No wonder American McGee and others left. What are the new amazing things currently in production? Doom. Wolfenstein. Whee... It feels like Carmack isn't interested in games anymore, just "mathematical masturbation". But, I shouldn't dismiss them until I get to try the games myself. Here is hoping they are good.
>Daikatana was the only bad Id licensee, and we all know that it's John Romero's fault.
Finally, we agree on something.
Oh yeah, and it is obvious the Mother of All Fights is not fought on an alien space Arena, or transmitted by the Lliandri Mining Corporation. It is the eternal fan quarrel which is best - UT or Q3. Over a year later and people still get their blood preassure up over the issue. Amazing.
Cheers,
Lars
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Re:They should just put it out as a Q3A level (Score:3)
Er, what would it help with?
Does anyone know of any sites dedicated to using 3D gaming engines for non-gaming purposes other than the article we saw a while back about a company using Q2 engine for an architectural walk-through? You know, maybe with resources that help take Autocad files and convert them to Quake maps?
There are plenty of people who use the Unreal engine for these sort of things, like the before mentioned Unrealty and the Notre Dame virtual tour. The Unreal engine is so easy to extend and modify because of its modular and object oriented design. The engine actually recently won a price [stomped.com] for being so powerful and making development easier. Here is a list of recent improvements [epicgames.com] to the engine and the editor. Looks really sweet! DirectX 8 [cdmag.com] + GeForce [nvidia.com] + UnrealEngine [epicgames.com] looks like a good recipe for great upcoming games.
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pretty cool (Score:2)
I see that they choose to use the Earth background skybox from Unreal Tournament for the station (as seen in some multiplayer maps). Fitting I guess.
me = stupid (Score:2)
I wish they'd applied a mirror texture to the solar panels. Would have looked nice.
Mirrors (Score:3)
Unreality (needed): http://www.unrealty.net/ [unrealty.net]
VISS ZIP here: http://www.unrealty.net/network/ [unrealty.net]
(you need the first two as per the instructions on NASA's site)
Screen shots: http://www.unrealty.net/network/screenshots.php3?
(un)Real Mirror of Unrealty Client (Score:2)
Haven't found a mirror for the VISS data, tho.
DemoNews points to a calculator. (Score:2)
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Textures? (Score:3)
The engine may have its difficulties (the older Glide issue is one of them, which some say has been solved)...but texture restrictions were NEVER one of them.
Next time, you may want to check your history...
-Julius X
Re:National Unreal Space Agency... HHMMmmm SPQR (Score:1)
really.
mirror in australia (of engine + VISS file) (Score:1)
file at planetmirror.com in australia
ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/unrealty/
http://ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/unrealty/
cheers,
-jason
tried it (Score:3)
Nevertheless, you get a pretty good impression of how the ISS is organized.
wow (Score:2)
Re: Just look at the facts sometime. (Score:1)
-
sig sig sputnik
Re:Simple map mod (Score:1)
Locked in My Brain Cell (Score:1)
Re:The Unreal engine sucks. (Score:1)
http://www.voodooextreme.com/shot.taf?image=apa
http://www.voodooextreme.com/articles/latestunr
Engine lisencees have access to Unreal Warfare code already, it's just a matter of them using what they have. I don't know why you think Unreal is the worst thing in the world.. it's a steal at around $400 thousand, and Epic treats their licensees like kings.
Love the .sig (Score:1)
Re:They should just put it out as a Q3A level (Score:1)
the "deathmatch don't matter, though it would help" part?
the "enough people and good performance" bit?
the "3D sites dedicated to non-game 3D engines" idle question?
the "Autocad file converted to Q map" query?
to paraphrase DDS, they should just put it out as a DeerHunter level. it would make more sense that way.
i feel dumber for having read this post.
Re:The Unreal engine sucks. (Score:1)
Re:The Unreal engine sucks. (Score:1)
i'd like to see you be brave enough to identify yer own ignorant self.
dude, seriously, shut up once in a while.
Re: Just look at the facts sometime. (Score:1)
"Don't try to corner *me* with logic!"
Re: Just look at the facts sometime. (Score:1)
pax out
Mirror for Unrealty Client (Score:3)
I haven't got anything for the VISS, but if I find it i'll reply back.
__________________
Re:single shot kill? Re:Simple map mod (Score:1)
The NASA Flak Cannon (Score:2)
They should just put it out as a Q3A level (Score:3)
Re:Textures? (Score:1)
The reason Unreal Tournament is so great is the weapons and the AI handling. The maps are pretty good too and not to hard to create once you get the hang of it. I'm curious how many new games are coming out using the quake engine compared to the Unreal engine. Seems to me that Unreal has a lot more potential...
Re:tried it (Score:1)
But then, that's just me I guess.
Different NASA Virtual ISS tour. (Score:2)
-gerbik
not slashdot friendly (Score:2)
GNU/Linux x86
A GNU/Linux x86 version will be available in the first quarter of 2001. Please visit this VISS Web site for future updates
single shot kill? Re:Simple map mod (Score:3)
The Assault mission sounds really cool! But then I'm addicted to Assault missions in UT. :-)
Anyway, to make it slightly more realistic, would it be possible to have regiospecific single shot kill? I.e. if you're outside the station, a single shot would kill your character (by virtue of breaking seal on your space suit and death by explosive decompression/hard vacuum exposure). Just a thought...
--
Fuck Censorship.
Tatical Ops? (Score:1)
Simple map mod (Score:5)
If you want you could even set up a cool Assault mission. Be a third-party country and try to raid the station. Then be the ISS defense. You could put sniper rifles by the windows.
Anyone up for a deathmatch? :)
Poor Space Nerds... (Score:2)
Re:tried it (Score:1)
This is what happened on MIR (Score:1)
[ridiculopathy.com]
Re:They should just put it out as a Q3A level (Score:1)
A modeling package using the Unreal Engine? (Score:1)
I still think that the british architects made a much better choice by using the Q2 engine, though I'd sure like to see that type of application on the Q3 engine. With the new terrain tools in Q3, you could photorealistically reproduce an entire neighborhood; just look at mpterra1 sometime.
Re: Just look at the facts sometime. (Score:1)
Then the Quake engine came along. At first, there were no licensees for that, but then a largely unknown software company licensed it and started working on a totally different game. That company was Valve Software, and that game was Half-Life. Before they finished, though, Q2 was already released, and Raven put out Hexen II and later Heretic II. Unreal was released by then, but once Half-Life was released (with numerous optimizations from the Q2 engine), it became the best single-player FPS. Back then, I asked my friend if I should get Unreal, as my psychology teacher had suggested. He said, "Nah, get Half-Life. Unreal sucks." I'm glad that I did get Half-Life first and Unreal later, because I saw about a hundred things in Unreal that Half-Life did better.
Unreal did have a few licensees (the most notable ones created "Wheel of Time" and "Aeon Flux"), but they all bombed. Meanwhile, work was being done on Quake3. Epic worked on Unreal Tournament as well. Quake3 came out first, then UT. The UT netcode, improved over Unreal's original netcode, was still laggy (basically, all they did was have the weapon models twitch without the server's acknowledgement; the weapon firing was still delayed). Quake 3 was much better when it came to its network code (it was decently playable on a 56K modem, while UT would balk in its 2 fps haze). Soon, other engine licensees were released. Soldier of Fortune was released by Raven; it used the Q2 engine augmented with a model engine of their own design (GHOUL). Daikatana was FINALLY released; the engine was okay (Q2 augmented with visual effects), but the content was not. Still no decent Unreal engine licensee games in sight (well, Nerf ArenaBlast, but that was child's play, literally!). Raven made and released Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force (Q3 engine with improved model system and MUCH improved AI engine [ICARUS]). Rune was released afterward, but it was an RPG, not an FPS, so it didn't do as well.
Currently, Rogue/EA has Alice out; that's a Q3-engine RPG from American McGee, the former Id Software map designer of DOOM/Quake/Q2 fame. And another company (I don't remember which) is working on "Return to Castle Wolfenstein", which will use the Q3 engine. And Id Software is creating an entirely new engine for the next DOOM project; this engine will use real-time level lighting, which will eliminate the abominable lightmap-calculation process in mapmaking, and the lightmap-loading process that bogs down map loading for the client.
How many prominent Unreal licensees are there in the near future? None that I've heard of. How many future Id Software-engine titles? Two (including the next DOOM). The game designers all know that Unreal sucks, and Id Software makes great game engines as a base to build their own games. Which is why they'd rather be associated with Carmack and not Sweeney.
Re: Just look at the facts sometime. (Score:1)
Re:Textures! (Score:1)
Re:The Unreal engine sucks. (Score:1)
Re:Be that as it may... (Score:1)
Re: Just look at the facts sometime. (Score:1)
As for the upcoming Unreal licensees, how many of them will score above 75% on PC Gamer? I'm forecasting only 4 of them will garner any good reviews (DNF's delay is its Achilles' heel). As for the upcoming Id licensees, they're all but guaranteed to be excellent. Daikatana was the only bad Id licensee, and we all know that it's John Romero's fault.
Re:The Unreal engine sucks. (Score:1)
Just this one. I've had it ever since I was in the AFC Q3 clan (hence the AFC). I wouldn't get another /. account even if Rob Malda paid me to.
Re:The Unreal engine sucks. (Score:2)
Even with these grudges I have against UT, I still play it; it's a nice escape from Quake and Half-Life when I start to get sick of them. However, about five minutes into each UT session, I see one or more of these problems pop up, and I exit UT. At that point, I'm ready to play Quake and Half-Life again. In a way, UT keeps me playing Quake.
Fungus (Score:2)
So. (Score:1)
Re:They should just put it out as a Q3A level (Score:1)
The Unreal engine [unrealengine.com] and their tech demo (a few months old now) whips the pants off anything Quake3 can do. Lately i've been impressed by the data you can give bots. Even Croteam [serioussam.com] is better than Q3A - I hope ID gets it together for Wolfenstein.
-- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!
Another ISS Model Available at Discovery.com (Score:2)
Discovery.com [discovery.com] have their own interactive ISS model [discovery.com], which includes a construction timeline, amongst other things.
It's designed for high-bandwidth connections, so 56k users will have to wait a while for download, but it's pretty much worth the wait.
Since I haven't downloaded the NASA version (6MB+!) I can't compare the two directly, but the Discovery one's pretty good.
Sean Ellis