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Games Entertainment

FASA Dies 117

Posted by michael from the taking-a-PPC-in-the-cockpit dept.
To0n writes: "Thought all you Mechwarrior fans would like to know. FASA, after 20 years of being in the role playing game business, has decided to close up shop. Instead of just stopping all the lines, FASA has decided to hand over the reigns to WizKids LLC and Ral Partha Enterprises. Offical press release is here. Sad to see them go, especially after the launch of two new systems, VOR and Crimson Skies."
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FASA Dies More

FASA Dies

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  • According to the press release [fasa.com], the whole corporation is part of the deal.
  • I loved battletech. My brother and I used to play. We'd spend hours filling out mech sheets, then line all our mechs up on a huge hex sheet and go at it. It was hours of fun for the whole family. And such a balanced game too. Until they released all the clan stuff. Then it seemed the game was targetted to an audience that a certain battletech website called "munchies" But what I really hated about all the clan stuff was that it seemed to take the strategy out of the game. Clan "rules of warfare" dictated that all combat was one-on-one. IMO, this makes game play *much* less interesting. One way to avoid this would be to have a inner sphere vs. clan battle. Good luck. Clan 'mechs and equipment are much superior. Whoever played the inner sphere would have to be a tactical genius to win.
  • Im really bummed.. Ive seen some articles on /. that have gotten to me, but this one... WOW! Ive been an avid BattleTech player for 8 years, I hope the companies who have it now will continue developement. IF NOT, lets get an online communtiy together around this and the other great FASA games to facillate online-by-player-developement to extend FASA games into the future.
  • It's been a while, but my recollection is that Jordan Weisman founded FASA with another gamer. Around the time that they got the Star Trek license, Jordan brought in his father, Morton, who was a semi-retired(?) executive, to bring some business knowledge to the company. Now, FASA's valuable properties are being transferred out to a company founded by Jordan. Sure looks like a transfer of assets to get out from under something, or a restructuring, not a real company failure.
  • Er, FASA used art from the Macross (and Dougram and Southern Cross), but it was certainly not "Macross in America." Battletech has a distinctly different flavor from Macross. In addition, there was apparently some confusion over who owned licenses to what a couple of years ago and FASA lost the rights to the artwork entirely. Nowadays you see people ripping off FASA instead (remember that "exo-armor" in Exo Squad that was a Battletech Madcat?).
  • That's not true. The entire reason that TSR failed in the first place can be pinned down to that exact reason. An increasinlgy large amount of low quality products was not enough for them to survive. WotC taking an attitude that leads to them cutting back quality for immediate financial gain seems to just be setting them on the same road as TSR. They started off so very well with 3rd Edition DnD, but now they have started making cutbacks because of lowered income from other licenses. This may not have the immediate effect of lowering their financial and publication holdings, but it will follow if it means that quality suffers because of it. That's why I don't think it can be in any way construed as a good thing. It may not be too bad, but it is certainly far from good.

  • Post Mortem on BattleTech (Score:3)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) on Sunday January 28, 2001 @08:52AM (#475988) Homepage Journal
    This post [stormwolf.com] on Mike Stackpole's site has been here for quite a few months, but you might want to read it, as it explains his departure from FASA (Federal Air and Space Administration) books. Judging from the last couple books I've read they need to A) find a new printer OR B) Stop editting the hell out of the books and making them weird.

    I've been reading these books since they came out and used to chat with Mike on GEnie, back in the good old days when there were some brains still at FASA. Some of those brains, also, hung out on GEnie. Somewhere I still have archives of thos messages. Good nostalgia there... I even collected overseas copies of the books so he could read the edit differences. Got a very cool autograph, too. Mike's a great guy and I hope they do pull BattleTech back together and bring Mike and some of the othe great writers back to do the fiction. The books were my intro to BattleTech.

    I'm perplexed at the selling of FASA Interactive to Microsoft (guess what's going to be on the X-Box, go on, guess!) This should have infused them with significant cash, unless they did a SubLogic and cut their own throats.

    I keep hoping Ralph Reed's old BattleMech will resurface. That was the best game, ever!

    --

  • It's interesting to note, though, that FASA only mentioned two of their product lines by name - Shadowrun and Battletech. To be sure, those are their most profitable products, but there's a lot of smaller market, but still very good, product lines that are being left in limbo...

  • Martin Blank dun said:

    Game Designer's Workshop: I don't even see them on the shelves anymore. Does anyone know what happened to them after the Gygax Disaster?

    Pretty much thanks to Gygax, came very close to being sued into oblivion, eventually going out of business (pretty much after the whole Gygax fiasco they ended up folding).

    AFAIK, there's only one or two properties of the former GDW even around--the creators of Dark Conspiracy ended up buying the rights back and as of late is being published by Dynasty Presentations [dynastypresentations.com] (and in fact is about to go into Dark Conspiracy v2.5), and if memory serves there's still a company selling supplements for Traveller. (In direct relation to FASA going out of business--it appears the exact same thing is happening with Shadowrun and which ended up happening with Earthdawn--pretty much gamers and creators buying the rights, and keeping the game going.)

    Of course, it's also slightly ironic that TSR itself ended up nearly going bankrupt, got bought out by WotC, and promptly went from being the sue-happiest RPG manufacturer on the planet (I remember when TSR would file cease-and-desists on folks for posting their own campaigns with their own created worlds, gods, etc.) to not only open-sourcing the game system but having supplements for a game using D&D rules published by White Wolf (!!!), of all companies. :)

  • FASA the gaming company, which is separate from FASA Interactive, was sold to WizKids LLC. FASA Interactive was sold a while ago to Microsoft.
  • how sudden, given that fasa's just been releasing new mechs. Hopefully the new company will continue the line of excellence.
  • You have to agree that the introduction of the clans destroyed a brilliant balance. Before the clans, there was no perfect 'mech for any given task. A limited number of 'mechs, with only a few variants each. No 'mech was optimally configured. The inner sphere had basically lost the technology necessary to build 'mechs. A 'mech was more valuable than the life of it's pilot. IMO, this was much more interesting to play than after the clans arrived.

    Introduce the clans. The clans can build 'mechs. Then the inner sphere learns how to as well. The clans have highly configurable 'mechs. When you see a certain kind of 'mech, you have no clue what is on it. All you know is the weight. It could be configured for speed. Could be configured for close combat. You don't know.
  • I'm in a similar situation. I've got plenty of things to keep me busy, so if I'm going to play a game, it's got to be perfect. Not the game itself, the rules, or anything like that. The trick is to actually find folks that I want to game with. If the chemistry isn't right, you might as well forget about it.

    As a kid, games were a focal point for me and other like-minded folks to get together and do stuff that we like. Now that I've aged a little, other things provide that focus. Still, if I could get that same vibe that my old gang had going again, you bet I'd be spending time playing pen-and-paper RPGs.
  • Pretty much thanks to Gygax, came very close to being sued into oblivion, eventually going out of business (pretty much after the whole Gygax fiasco they ended up folding). Nope. If you have to pick a single reason they went out of business, it's because they tried to get into the mass market, selling books to bookstores. They produced a Gulf War sourcebook, printed huge quantities of it in response to mass distributor orders, and then took a bath when the war ended faster than expected and most of those copies came back remaindered. The Gygax thing was a minor annoyance for GDW compared to the discovery that, when you sell books to the mass market, they can come back.
  • AFAIK, the WotC cuts were NOT a result of sliding sales of anything they made -- anything they lost in Magic sales was easilly recouped by the smash hit that was D&D 3rd edition.

    The cuts were an across the board thing that happened as a result of an overproduction of action figures on Hasbro's part (don't remember which line but I'm sure the people who follow that end of things know).
  • I always kind of dug Shadowrun's magic and technology mix. Then again, I like both Fantasy and hard sci-fi games, so for me, blurring the distinction was a nice excercise in creativity.

    Shadowrun's setting gives you the same kind of possibilities that a movie like Highlander did. When the gun-crazed Marine unloads his Uzi into the Kurgan in the middle of an alley, and it has no effect on the guy - that's a vibe that you'd love to recreate in a game.

    Hell, the one of the most frequently used quotes in sci-fi, paraphrased, is something like "Technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishasble from magic." (Asimov?) If you're looking for realism in your game, SR may not be the way to go. But blending the two genres makes a whole lot of sense if you're looking for a way to spice up a cyber-game.
  • As another Dinosaur (I started with the REAL original 3 little D&D books in app 1976) i have to take issue woith your ending.

    There is nothing in the computer are ayet that coems anywhere close to the richness of experience and imaginationwe had playing pen and paper games. Frankly, i have yet to even see a game that can be called a Roleplay game on a comouter. Roleplay requires the interraction of personalities and computers have none.

    Don't get me wrong, i enjoy Sims and adventure games (of which CRPGS are really just a resource-management oriented variant) but they aren't RPGs as we know them.

    Bioware right now is trying to crteate a real on0line toold for playing true RPGs (D&D specific). We'll see how well it works.
  • Hero was also bought by Cybergames.
  • The FASA StarTrek:The RPG is most noteable for ist ship combat system, which was awesome and the only role-play oriented ship combat system I've v\ever seen or played.

  • Although I own a number of FASA products, I have never been a big fan of FASA. I play them primarily because other people play them. I have yet to see a FASA product that was truly well thought out with balanced game play. Although big robots are fascinating, they (FASA) weren't the first to come out with the idea. Others before them have done a better job in creating a universe populated with robots and their pilots. In fact, most of the older mech designs were mostly taken from Robotech. Much of the rest were pieces of robots taken from various anime that they put together and called their own. And to add insult to injury, they created a universe where the nations of various non-European cultures such as, the Japanese, the Chinese and the Arabs were the bad guys while the white guys of various origins were the good guys. How prejudiced is that? I can only wonder what the makers of Robotech must have felt when they learned of this game called Battletech.
  • if memory serves there's still a company selling supplements for Traveller.

    Yes, Traveller is still around ... its creator, Marc Miller, still owns the rights to it and is reprinting the original game books, plus all the supplements, adventures, alien modules etc, in single volumes (eg all the rules booklets in one book). Great for a nostalgic Traveller player like me who never gets to play it anymore! (Nice, uncluttered system; but it's the richly detailed backdrop which is compelling ...)

    The website is at Far Future Enterprises [farfuture.net].

    There was a short-lived attempt by a company called Imperium Games to release a 4th edition, back to basics Traveller, but it folded after a couple of books and supplements.
    --

  • I personally think that FASA's great flaw was in keeping more than three games. They'd been successful until bringing it up to five...

    Let me explain. Early on they had Star Trek, Battletech, and Renegade Legion. Then they wanted to add Shadowrun into the mix - and they dropped Star Trek. When they wanted to add Earthdawn, they dropped Renegade Legion. When they wanted Crimson Skies, they dropped Earthdawn. This worked fine until they also wanted Vor and Crucible...

    (To be clear, I'm *really* going to miss FASA. It was a good company with a fun name. Sure, they'd gone downhill in recent years, but I was willing to forgive them if they'd just start publishing things again...)

  • And Steve Jackson is doing GURPS Traveller

    Doing? It's out. Can't remember how many months ago, but it just about knocked me flat on my ass to see "GURPS Traveller" on the shelf. Partly because it'd been so long since I saw anything to do with Traveller, but mostly because Traveller's unchanging, take-four-years-off-to-get-a-new-skill characters are so diametrically opposed to the constantly-evolving characters in GURPS.

  • You might want to refrain from making racist statements as part of your post.

    It isn't "J*p Anime" any more than Barbara Streisand is a "k*** singer" or Ray Carruth is "that n***** football player."

    Some decorum, please.
  • Shadowrun is the best RPG of all time. I eventually stopped playing because my friends did, but I had a troll street samurai that had been on many, many runs and which I was this close to retiring anyway because of all the fudging the game master was having to do on the bad guys' stats and rolls just to make them a challenge. Mostly what I liked about it though is the amount of well thought-out background information. The sourcebooks themselves were as fun to read as any novels.
  • see the grey bar at the bottom of the post that has all those pull down menus, that one check box and the buttons that say "change" and "reply"? click reply. :)
  • Myself and a group of friends did a huge amount of work for Flying Buffalo on a Blade supplement (I think it was the last City Map book) and most of us haven't seen a dime and that was probably over three years ago. The editor paid out of her pocket for the color seperations and I don't think she was ever repaid for that.

    The only ones who have been paid, AFAIK, are the ones who worked at Buffalo and thus were in a position to bitch repeatedly until paid, or those whom the owner thought he might be able to get more product out of (fat chance!).

    --
  • FASA was also known for being the one to license the Star Trek trademark into a Role Playing Game. At some point during the Next Generation television series, some disputes arose as to how far that license really extended. Eventually, the license was lost.

    A year or three ago, Last Unicorn Games [lastunicorngames.com] acquired a license for new Star Trek RPGs. Strangely enough, just a week after GenCon in Wisconson, they were bought up in turn by Wizards of the Coast [wizards.com], the ever growing owners of AD&D.

  • Ever growing isn't really the correct phrase. Even the mighty WotC recently slashed staff positions from numerous departments, owing to diminishing returns on the pokemon license. Admittedly, this didn't have a huge impact on them, but it's definately a step backwards, not forwards
  • Just a note that Dumpshock.com (one of if not the largest Shadowrun sites on the net) has a FAQ about the FASA closing, with all the info we know as of now, for all the game lines and properties.

    It's available at http://www.dumpshock.com/FASA-FAQ.html [dumpshock.com].

    (Yes, I'm one of the webmasters at Dumpshock.)

  • Ok, so WhizKids will now have the Battletech system.
    A question that's been knocking through my mind is,

    How hard does WhizKids protect it's IP?

    Are fan sites going to have to worry about being shut down,
    or are will it be business as it has been (fans a bart of the process).
  • The Freedonian Air & Space Administration


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!

  • First don't get me wrong I think battletech is a great game, however like most things (Magic) it has grown too large for its britches. When I started playing BTech it was with first edition in I think the late 80's. I now have a collection of over 800 miniatures. Those who play it found recently, the last year or so, that the game desiners started ignoring all the fluff they put out about the history and such. The bad guys, the head of the Clans (Wolf) deciced to up and join their moral enemies. Akin to Isreal deciding that they should firght with Jordan against the United States. This was too much for us old timers (21yrs old). Modern production was accelerated in the last year, probably in a last attempt to same the company, however the new rules are far too complicated and start to prevent battles with large numbers of mechs (72 per side) from taking under an entire weekend. People complained about 3rd edition Warhammer yet they play it. Those who I know, decided that BTech was dead and called the universe to an end at 3058/3059. The sales at our local hobby shop, who had previously kept all FASA stock on the shelves dried up. FACA whithout BTech is not right, VOR was good but couldn't compete with WH40K. New BTech designs were stupid, unable to compete with a well played older unit and failed to look as good. (A more rounded feel) Old players who have hundreds of miniatures will still play and will not be affected at all. To us Battletech died over a year ago. Still it is sad that we may now have troubles getting new players and the new owners will want the game to take on their feel. A sad day, but we all knew it was comming.

  • Why did he get modded down to zero? He had the right answer..

  • Alas poor FASA. I knew them Horatio! (Score:5)

    by Chas ( 5144 ) on Sunday January 28, 2001 @06:46AM (#476016) Homepage Journal

    For those looking for Whiz Kids, you can find them at http://www.mageknight.com [mageknight.com].

    The WK press release can be found at: http://www.mageknight.com/company_landing.htm?sid= 89&cid=4501 [mageknight.com]

    While it sucks that an old friend like FASA is going the way of the dodo, it's actually a Good Thing [TM] for the BattleTech and Shadowrun product lines. Additionally, it's a good thing for Ral Partha. As WK is FAR better funded than FASA "EVER" was.

    FASA is going to settle out all their debts, finish up and publish their last project or two (including the much awaited Periphery Field Manual), and that's it. The novel contracts will stay with ROC until the end of the current BTech story arc. After which time, WK will probably begin shopping the line around to other publishing houses. Especially since ROC didn't exactly treat FASA very well.

    Unofficially (so far), Mike Stackpole [stormwolf.com] is being brought back into the fold here. So fans of his BattleTech series of books may see him actually finish out his post Clan Invasion story arc.

    As to what form BattleTech and SR might take when they re-emerge under the WK imprimature, we don't have any clue right now. From a hardcore gamefan's POV, the best thing they could do is not really change the game, and simply make the supplements for the game better.

    From a businessman's POV, BT's fanbase has been gradually shrinking over the last several years (though those who remain are usually VERY hardcore). This presents a barrier of sorts to the entry of new players. WK may (or may not) convert portions (or all) of BattleTech/SR over to a MageKnight format of game play. Which would probably simplify an already simple game.

    As for FASA's MechForce fanclub and their Games Workshop-esque Marauder program (sanctioned event hosting). Both programs are probably going to be allowed to quietly die away (some disgruntled members of both organizations would say they already have). Later on, something like MechForce could be resurrected by WK or by someone willing to buy a license to run MechForce in North America.

    As to FASA's licenses for VOR, Crucible, and Crimson Skies projects. Crimson Skies reverts to Microsoft. VOR and Crucible revert to their own holders. They may shop the properties around, or simply re-license them to WK under similar terms.

    About the only REALLY messed up thing was that most of the EMPLOYEES weren't told till right before the announcement hit the net. And some of their freelancers actually found out about it before being alerted by FASA.

    So it's not technically a bankruptcy. Basically, a major, important part of the FASA corporation is being melded into the WK corporation.

    Additionally, for those hoping for the Unseen (the mechs that caused the lawsuit with Harmony Gold) to return. Don't bet on it. It'll probably be WK stance that licensing the images from Harmony Gold would simply be money ill-spent.

    In short, this is a black cloud with a lot of silver in the lining.


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!

  • Re:Is it just me (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    FASA stands for Freedonian Air and Space Administration. This was an entity in FASA's earliest works for Trav...in fact, the company began for the purpose of selling supplements for GDW's seminal sci-fi RPG Traveller, which continues in various forms to this day. Later FASA made Renegade Legion and BattleTech. RL was supposed to be the flagship product but was too complex for most gamers, though elements of the rules have survived in BattleSpace and more recently Crimson Skies.

    Despite the somewhat unrealistic combat rules for BattleTech, I'll still miss the hell out of FASA and the large number of great supplements they were able to produce.

  • Mechwarrior II: Mercenaries for the PC, you mean. This game suffered from what I call SimAnt Syndrome, where the enemies would always make a beeline for your mech unless directly being assaulted by your assistants. Of course, then all you needed to do was give yourself a speedy runner and assign your Atlases D and K to your squad assistants, and train everybody except one all around, assigning the assistants to pick off them one by one. Easy.

    Second place was the Battletech cartridge for Sega Genesis. Now that was a tough game to beat.
  • I think what I will miss most about the passing of FASA will be Shadowrun. While I'm certainly familiar with Mechwarrior, I think they made much greater contributions to the gaming comunity with Shadowrun (now a definite classic).
  • I find it interesting to look back at the industry as I have seen it over the past 15 years or so. Being only 26, the early years were dominated by D&D (of course), and then Robotech. Later, my first job was at a small game store in Southern California, during which I saw the first near-death experience for the RPG industry when Magic hit. Our book sales plummeted as people chose to buy more cards for various collectible card games (CCGs), and the owner and I had a couple of discussions about who would survive.

    Since then, I have not played as many games as I did at that time, but a general review of the main companies is in order.

    Chaosium: Always a bit of a niche company, Chaosium has amazed me for years at how they hang in there. Exemplary source material and a loyal cult following (and labeling something a cult hit in the RPG industry is something) have kept it anf their lines (mainly Cthulu) alive.

    FASA: Well, we all know they are closing, but at least they're trying to do it with some grace, instead of shutting down and leaving a lot of freelancers without their payments. However, Shadowrun and Battletech managed to stay a head above most of the other games on the market with remarkable source material and a system that didn't change every three books. Anyone who played Battletech 10 years ago would easily slip into the current rule set with only a few adjustments.

    Game Designer's Workshop: I don't even see them on the shelves anymore. Does anyone know what happened to them after the Gygax Disaster?

    Games Workshop: OK, not an RPG company per se, but still a major force in the gaming world. They've stopped selling to most of the stores out there, preferring to go the route of web sales and opening some of their own stores, in my mind, a bold but perhaps foolhardy move.

    Iron Crown Enterprises: Makers of Rolemaster (aka Rollmaster and Chartmaster), they shut down in 1999 or 2000, although I didn't catch many details of it.

    Palladium: As annoying as many find their character and combat system (a bastardization of the original D&D system), you can't argue with the sheer volume of source material with a storyline in the Rifts books that is just enough to keep fans coming back for more. Last I heard, they were doing fairly well, although they do so with a tack that is rather over-protective (like threatening lawsuits against anyone who makes an unauthorized character generator).

    R. Talsorian: Creators of my favorite game, Cyberpunk, as well as makers of a half dozen other games, RTG consists (technically) of one person, Mike Pondsmith, with his wife, Lisa, helping out. For those who haven't been to the website recently, Mike took a position in Redmond with the Great Satan (Microsoft). Work continues (slowly) on other books, but at least he's really working at keeping it alive. However, with RTG going from several full-time employees to a couple of part-timers (and perhaps some freelance work), I can only hope that Mike's persistence will be able to pay off.

    Steve Jackson Games: Having come back after the Secret Service raid that nearly bankrupted them, SJG is probably about the most well-off company I can think of. Steve Jackson does not focus on one thing at a time, and long ago diversified into other businesses (he runs the Illuminati ISP, IIRC). SJG is probably the best-off company I can think of.

    TSR: Once the pinnacle of the industry, bad press, bland game design, and real competition set in to knock the King from his throne. They were purchased by WotC a couple of years ago to escape the inevitable slide to disaster.

    White Wolf: I loved Vampire, but could never get into Werewolf or Mage. In any case, WW expanded rapidly (too rapidly, I thought), and then sales growth tapered off. I still see their hardbound books everywhere, which are quite expensive to make, so I can only assume that they are making some kind of profit. Whether they can keep it going may be a different matter.

    Wizards of the Coast: A few add-on books for D&D and a few other, unremarkable books for generic source material made up WotC's product line until Magic hit, and then started the explosion of the CCG industry. Years later (1999, I think), they sold out to Hasbro for $400 million. Nice turn of cash, considering where they were a mere nine years ago.

    I know I'm forgetting some of them, but these are most of the major ones, and how I have seen them change in the last few years. The industry has been through slumps before, but seems to be coming out of the last one for now. It's not a pretty picture, but it never has been, really. Just a fact of some industries, I guess.

  • While FASA did stand for Freedonian Air and Space Association, that name first appeared on a Traveller supplement (SONTAG?), which IIRC, was their first product. But I don' tthink they were a full company then.

    "Hail, hail Fredonia, land of the free and brave!" - Duck Soup

  • Before West End got bought out by Yeti, it pissed away all its money and went bankrupt. Chapter 7. When they shut the doors they left a lot of employees out in the cold, missing thousands of $ worth of salary and expenses. It was hardly an organized exit strategy, like the FASA/Wizkids thing.

    I know, I was one of the WEGers at the time. I worked from home in LA, on the Herc & Xena RPG.

    The owners of WEG were the worst kind of corporate scum. At the end they strung their people along for a while, getting work out of them knowing that soon they'd be cut loose, uncompensated.

    Did you know that WEG also owned an Italian shoe importing business? The fantastically successful game company kept paying off debts that the failing shoe business racked up. Eventually the shoe vampire drained them dry, and that was the end. As Dave Barry would say, "I am not making this up."

    As "The H&X RPG Guy" for 6 months, I have HUNDREDS OF PAGES of Herc & Xena RPG materials that were commissioned but never paid for by WEG. The books were never printed, the freelancers were never paid, but I have a huge amount of ready-to-go material. I have contacted my freelancers, and almost unanimously they are in favor of releasing the material for free to the web, so at least SOME fans can enjoy it. The only thing stopping me is the fear of a lawsuit. But does WEG have any claim to the stuff? The studio at least could gripe about it... I don't know what to do. Maybe this should be an Ask Slashdot.
  • On that topic, does use of CCGs inspire use of RPGs? I know I played magic before I started playing Shadowrun, though I must admit, I played Robotech even before that.

    But I must admit, it would be quite nice to see an increase in gamers in a couple of years because of that.
  • >If you liked VOR, good news, the creator's contract stipulated that rights reverted back to him.

    Ack. Vor stinks. I can say that with confidence, because I wrote a big chunk of one of the sourcebooks. My editor padded my stuff by about 1/3 to make up for his incorrect estimate of the needed page count, so my stuff isn't even reading like my stuff. Yuck.

    FASA pays late too. I hope Wizkids is run better.
  • My friend has a RuneQuest charater in a game I GM along time ago who was a duckling fisher/tailor. He wore a huge helmet that took up almost all his fatigue points and just went around headbutting doing 1d4 DM (then -1d3 DM due to his low str). I think he critical striked a small wolf once and almost killed it.
  • No more S.C.OUT? : (
  • I'm with you. Battletech was fun, but Shadowrun was awesome. I think the best RPGing times I had as a teen were playing shamans and physical adepts in a seemy 2053 Seattle.
    -Brian
  • Yeah I wish I had the time to play Table-Tops again. I used to spend like 8 hours every Sunday playing Shadowrun. Now, it would be very difficult to find that kind of time. On top of that, it would be impossible for me to find 5 or 6 others who had that kind of time at the same time as me. THEN we'd have to find someone who could devote twice as much time to GMing the damned thing. Ugh.
    What about NeverWinter Nights? Could this bring back RPGing? A real DM, and a regular group of players would have a lot easier time if not restricted by geography.
    -Brian
  • Hey, I was typing fast. Spelling Nazi's allways take the fun out of life.

    my 200 in pesos.

  • Do any of you remember NetRunner?

    Now that was a great game, and I'm sorry to say it didn't really survive. A few friends of mine bought off a few of the cards from game stores really cheap, and we started playing, but we couldn't find anymore. Come to think of it, I probably could check eBay, but this is one example of a game that never made it despite how good it was. I guess it was a litle to difficult for the mainstream gamers, but I taked to my local comic book store owner, and he said it was the only game to ever get 4 stars in some magazine rating. I don't remember which one though. But if any of you happen to come across a few cards...feel free to email me.
  • is the dealer room at major conventions. There are three conventions in LA held over President's Day, Memorial Day and Labor Day. I picked up a box of boosters for Shadowfist for $5.00. I've seen NetRunner there.

    --
  • Hey, I was typing fast. Spelling Nazi's allways take the fun out of life.

    That should be "Nazis", not "Nazi's".

    --
    "Where, where is the town? Now, it's nothing but flowers!"

  • This is a tragedy. A moment of silence, please.
  • Or do I remember reading that FASA (named after a fictional aeronautics company - mucho kudos to the person who can name it) was bought out by Microsoft. It may have been just the development end, but after they almost made themselves broke after overproducing the pod simulators and then having the lead developing firm go under, I was pretty sure it was the whole company.

    In either event, it is a sad day for us all.

  • Re:Is it just me (Score:3)

    by karryh ( 235656 ) on Sunday January 28, 2001 @03:29AM (#476036) Homepage
    That was FASA interactive, the computer game portion of FASA. FASA itself was not part of the deal.
  • :Or do I remember reading that FASA (named after a fictional aeronautics company - mucho kudos to the
    person who can name it) was bought out by Microsoft.

    My friends always said FASA stood for Frack (or Fsck depending on people present) Another Stupid Argument.

  • People always come up with stupid meanings for (possibly meaningless) acronyms. One of my friends told me with absolute conviction that Gap stood for 'Gay and Pround' on Friday.

    Pete

  • This ship didn't really sink (Score:4)

    by stefiroth ( 226857 ) on Sunday January 28, 2001 @03:32AM (#476039) Homepage
    As I was hanging around my favorite gaming store yesterday afternoon I heard some interesting news. It seems one of the heads of Wizkids and one of the heads of Fasa were related, more over fasa, when it acquired another company last year picked up a few debts. It's been discussed that this could be a way to drop the debt, and still keep some of the games "in the family" It'll be interesting to see what's next.
  • It is always sad to see a good company go down. FASA has made great games like Shadowrun and Battletech and too see go is like watching a really good friend move 3000 miles away hoping you wont lose touch, but knowing that you will. It is good that another will take its place with the same products so players will not have to worry too much. This story reminds me of the complete destruction and saddnes that surrounded Microprose and it's demise, another great company that failed.

    Lord Arathres
  • I'll admit to not feeling quite good about the demise of a top tier RPG company. What does this bode for other companies such as RTG or Steve Jackson Gaming... ?? I still own the old Shadowrun 2nd ed. never upgraded to 3rd edition. Was not all that impressed by Shadorwun. The mix of magic + tech didnt sit well and made for an uneasy marriage imo.

    I much more enjoyed the RTG offerings (cp2020, bubblegum crisis, CyberGeneration REvolution 2 was the pinnacle of real roleplaying in a cybertechy world, instead of guns guns guns guns... very good stuff cg/2)...

    Will be interesting to see what happens to fasa's licenses.. the company was really run off shadowrun and battletech.

    Battletech would be the only reason to really buy the company for. That title has a lifespan. books, toys, movies, games, cartoons, etc.

    guess its in wizzkids house now....

    Write your Own Operating System [FAQ]!

  • it truly is sad to see fasa go. i wonder if WizKids will continue to produce the maps, etc. for crimson skies. man that game is a good way to kill some time :o)
  • From the release...

    We are selling our BattleTech and Shadowrun properties to Wizkids LLC, along with certain assets of Ral Partha Enterprises.

    As most of you know, Wizkids was started by Jordan Weisman, a founder of FASA and the creator of the incredibly successful new game line Mage Knight Rebellion.

    Signed at the bottom by...

    Morton Weisman

    I do believe you are correct in your family statement. Kind of funny and a good business move too.

    Lord Arathres
  • It's okay, kids, you can still play pokemon!
  • As an avid player I disagree, the clans made it far more intersting, I am the highest reated player in our region, Hamilton (CANADA) and I play a low tech inner-sphere company. The clans are more of a handycap than an advantage, you can run around and get their big things to chase you, you can win but you have had to have been playing for a long time. It is the newer rules (level 3, not 2) that have created a influx of the power gamer and cheese monkey. A new edition, 4th, could have saved them rather than modifing 1st edition.

  • SR has been FASA's breadwinner for years.

    As for BTech, is was never really intended to be some horrendously intricate mecha combat system. It was intended as a quick pickup, beer and pretzels game.


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!

  • I would like to see the gaming industry do something new, which it really hasn't since Vampire (which itself was a repackaged Call of Cthulu).

    Wow, now THAT'S a stretch.

    Call of Cthulhu is about a specific mythos that is classified as horror, and vampires are a part of the horror genre, but that's where the similarity ends.

    Totally different systems, totally different mythos (there aren't any vampires in the Cthulhu mythos, really; not in the classical sense of a vampire, anyway), totally different intents, totally different markets.

    They're more different than Dungeons and Dragons is from Traveller.

    -
  • The whole CCG market is sliding. Magic isn't what it once was, and Pokemon isn't flavor of the day anymore. As a result of this WotC isn't making as much money as it was before Hasbro bought it. Hasbro told WotC it had to cut back. Right now they're selling off their 3rd string CCG, Legend of the Five Rings(Anyone got a couple million I can borrow?), which they bought not too long ago from AEG. AEG hasn't exactly had it easy either, they cancelled their flagship card game DoomTown in late November because they had lost a great deal of money on it. From what I hear, their remaining CCG, 7th Sea, is headed for the crapper too.
    I'm not sure what is going to survive in this market. The market isn't saturated with crappy CCGs like it was a few years ago, but now it seems that it's not the best games that continue - its the most promoted. *cough*Windows*cough*

    Okay... that's enough ranting from me this morning.

  • That is, bttotalcontrol the SourceForge project to make Battletech: Total Control as a computer game. It didn't have rights to make it, but did (or started) anyway. Hmmm...

  • It's views like this I hate.

    Oh. I understand the "busy busy busy" argument. I just don't agree with it.

    There's still a hardcore RPG and tabletop gaming community out there. Just head to GenCon and find out how big it really is. Most of them look at CCG's like Magic as crack. Yeah it's a quick hit. But it wears off. It's not memorable.

    Look to RPG's and you'll find people who have fond memories of adventures played LONG before CCG's were even a concept.

    It's not really the game system that holds people. It's the storylines involved in them that keep people coming back for more. Not the need for another "hit".


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!

  • I've been reading these books since they came out and used to chat with Mike on GEnie, back in the good old days when there were some brains still at FASA. Some of those brains, also, hung out on GEnie. Somewhere I still have archives of thos messages. Good nostalgia there...

    Could you please post those archives somewhere? I for one would be interested in some insight on what FASA was like in the olden days...

  • Breadwinner? Last year was the first time ever that Shadowrun earnt more money than Mechwarrior/BT. And this was just counting the actual games themselves. The BT licenses still bring in FAR more money than Shadowrun could even hope to by itself. Hardly what I'd call "FASA's breadwinner for years".
  • My GOD!!! a first post that wasnt a troll! and I prefered Shadowrun.
  • If you spend a day RPG'ing, and have fun. The time is NOT "wasted".


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  • You're right. (Why wasn't that modded up?) I looked into all this recently after getting Mechwarrior 3 and Mech Commander and seeing my fave mechs (Marauder, Warhammer etc...) weren't in it. 'Tis a sad day indeed. I recently got back into Warhammer 40K after a 9 year absence. Would have gotten back into B'tech, but there are just far to many books for it out there today. I have the second edition rules (well, whatever was out in 1988), CityTech, Aerotech (never could figure that out) and the Technical Readout in storage in England, but it's just far too insane now with all the add-on material. Of course, Warhammer is no better but still... Warhammer has a kickass back story on a par with Battletechs. Very sad day. Why couldn't Wizards go under? They are perhaps the worst company involved in the gaming scene. No better than drug dealers. ("I'm an ex Magic "addict".)
  • Assuming you're talking about what I think you are, you mean the kick ass Amiga game right? I would give one of my testicles to see a game like that released for Linux. The only option currently is to run UAE and play the old version. I've always considered writing a B'tech game but alas just don't have the skills:(
  • As stated above. Microsoft simply purchased FASA Interactive, which at that point was little more than a hollow shell including the rights to turn FASA games into computer games. IIRC, one of the first things Microsoft did was kill the Shadowrun title in development. Screw all that antitrust stuff; that's the real reason to hate those bastards.

  • Actually I knew that the shoe store killed West End, and I have a friend who wrote a good bit of the Star Wars stuff, and never got compensated for it. I have another friend who finished his project for Blood Shadows but since his wife was leaving to work for TSR they canned his project. Yes they are the worst kind of scum, too bad I liked their games.

    As for the free release, I don't know what your terms were in licence, ask some lawer, of course that would cost you too. Good luck

  • Yes, and if you'd spoken to any higher-ups in FI at the time of the deal, you'd have heard about the deal being made to gain some much-needed cash for FASA. Obviously some things never change, they needed cash then... they need cash now...
  • Atlas Games [atlas-games.com] : A small games company which has the distinction of being the fourth organization to own the Ars Magica [atlas-games.com] property (following WotC, which followed White Wolf, which followed Lion Rampant). For my money, Ars Magica is the best roleplaying game ever written: it has the best background for any game I've ever seen, and the guts to say "screw game balance, we're making the mages kick ass."

  • One, the game and plot-line have always revolved around each other.

    Two, nobody said anyone HAD to use anything more than the basic Level1 materials (the stuff in the boxed set) when playing a game. It's always been up to the GM to determine the complexity and allowed rules in the game.

    Also, the "good guy - bad guy" dichotomy was merely a plot device (since it's hard to have a good protagonist/antagonist story without the antagonist). As to a set house being the universal badguy, those who actually read the entire series of books saw how this was definitely NOT true.

    BattleTech is NOT reality. It never has been. If you're looking for reality, you need to look someplace OTHER than the mecha game genre. As to the star-empire based on a monarchy system, while it's fairly ludicrous, at least SOME effort was taken to explain HOW it came about. And if you can get your hands on the House Source Books (quite out of print, head over to Gamer's Union and look if you're interested.

    I think this could have been avoided with people not playing by FASA's "rules".

    See the first couple sentences of my post.


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!

  • Just to throw in my $0.02,

    Earthdawn (my favourite FRPG) is actually alive and kickin' - its rights were bought by living room games and they plan to bring out a second edition and have already published an adventure of their own creation (which I have not seen yet).

    Check out the link:
    www.lrgames.com [www.lrgames.comtargettop]

    Best regards,
    Jochen

  • Re:This ship didn't really sink (Score:3)

    by Windigo The Feral (N ( 6107 ) on Sunday January 28, 2001 @03:56PM (#476063)

    Burnon dun said:

    It's interesting to note, though, that FASA only mentioned two of their product lines by name - Shadowrun and Battletech. To be sure, those are their most profitable products, but there's a lot of smaller market, but still very good, product lines that are being left in limbo...

    I know that at least some of their earlier games have been sold off for some time (around one-two years ago). Earthdawn, for example (which was actually a fairly decent fantasy game which could be argued to have been a "twin" game to Shadowrun--(spoiler) Earthdawn having been set in the Fourth World), was cancelled around a year or so ago, when Shadowrun went 3rd Ed (it was felt Earthdawn wasn't "profitable") and the rights have been bought by Living Room Games [lrgames.com] who are now releasing supplements for Earthdawn and will be releasing Earthdawn 2nd Edition sometime this spring. (Admittedly, I do have some bias there--a close friend of mine is doing arts for the Earthdawn 2nd Ed main book ;)

    I'd not be surprised if they might've done the same for some of the other properties they own or are planning to do so (they did sell the rights for a fair amount of stuff a year ago, when they were starting to become fasa.fuckedcompany.com).

  • FASA never made good decisions with its BattleTech property. I don't know anything about their other games, but the promise of BT/Mechwarrior was wasted. It could have been much bigger, especially if they had focused on pushing it into electronic games with more vigour and vision.

    In particular, the span of time between the first Mechwarrior and MWII was unbelievable. I've liked the other MWs, and even MechCommander (with all its faults), but I've never had the game I've always wanted from them. I wanted depth, role playing, and something other than "this time your in your mech and...". What about the people? What about the world around you? Is everything a fucking target, or what? At least in MW you could choose what planet you went to and sell mechs... the merest hint of a wider universe against which the game was played. In the newer stuff? Nothing.

    And the Clans suck. Mostly. Deus ex Machina for the Inner Sphere stalemate. Nice try. What next? Aliens?

    In the end, it doesn't matter to most of us who played, I think. Regretfully, I have no time for games anymore.


    We thieves, we liars, we vandals, and poets. Networked agents of Cthulhu Borealis.

  • Anybody noticed that it's not possible to have two doublequotes in one HTML-Tag?
    I just tried to make a standard href and (for the convenience of all slashdotters) a target link in an anchor tag, the result = link to --"url._top" - it should be possible to write such things shouldn't it?

    G'day
    Jochen

  • Gee, and I thought that I was the only one who played that. I sat down with a friend and wrote some psycho Scheme code (I was in high school, didn't know the good details of the language) to generate characters and everything.

    Was pretty cool, and incredibly detailled and intense.

    Fun game, but I recalled it not having a ship-ship combat, but they had a few unrelated ones that they recommend you take a look at.

    Or, if I'm misreading you, you thought it was cool that it was all up to the GM and to be role played. Either way, it was pretty cool and caught the flavor of Star Trek.
  • wait on heat, wait on heat, wait on heat.

    AAhahahahaha them were the days lad.
  • Good game properties do seem to be surviving depsite the financial troubles of the companies producing them.

    Those game properties that evolve do seem to find new homes or leases of life, by whatever means.

    Consider for example the excellent fantasy world of Glorantha written by Greg Stafford. Once it was supported by Runequest, after troubles with Avalaon Hill it now survives in a new game system: Hero Wars. The funding for the company to write the game system and producenew background material was paritally from donations by the fans, who gave Greg the money, because they wanted to see Glorantha in print again.

    Check out http://www.herowars.com.

    And the game has evolved, a simpler system means that those of us who have aged in years (33) and have less time to write and run games, can concentrate on the narritive elements instead of the numbers.

    Gaming is not dying, it is evolving with us.

    Its biggest problem remians that its fanbase is aging. Who will carry the torch, when we are gone?

  • I know exactly what you mean. I just found out about this this morning (been out of RPGs for a while; work and all). I grew up on FASA and must have played and read every Battletech game and book before 1994 or so. It's strange to hear them die. BTW: the cub was Simba and you're right on Mufasa (in the clouds)

  • Boy, oh boy, I sometimes feel like a brontosaurus surrounded by cute little mammals -- I just know something's wrong...

    (...please indulge an old man (39 years) in his reverie...)

    ...or at least my favorite hobby is. I began gaming in the late 70s; I was just beginning my programming career at that time, too. I loved Ogre/GEV, RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu, and, of course, Star Fleet Battles. I played War in the Pacific, Drang Nach Asten, Squad Leader, and Ironclads... ah, the memories.

    I met my wife while playing RuneQuest back in 1980. My character was an intelligent shaman duck with a geas to destroy reptiles. This cute girl comes into the room, and I'm introduced as "the guy playing a duck".

    So I said "Quack."

    We got married in '81. And I'm still quacking up the cute girl...

    The problem is time. Once we started having kids in the late 1980s, I just didn't have time to run a role-playing game anymore. Job, kids, and other hobbies impinged. The last game I "gave up" was Star Fleet Battles. SFB just took too much time to play...

    I will miss FASA, more because it represents my youth than because I played its games much.

    And in spite of the changes, the state of gaming is good.

    Today, my family games on the computer, even the 5yo. My eldest daughter is 11, and she's quite good at games like Pharoah and Age of Kings; my 10yo (b-day today!) daughter is into scenario design. We play AoK, Heroes of Might & Magic, and some others. No shooters, other than the Heretic-Hexen series. Having been shot at, I don't find much joy in pointing guns and fragging people -- but that's a matter of taste, and not some moral judgement.

    As a family, we play strategy or RPG games over the home LAN. Right now, my wife and I are in Hell, trying to put Diablo down for good (or until the expansion kit ;) ) I'm waiting on Arcanum, which sounds like it might be an interesting family RPG game.

    Maybe we're not going extinct -- perhaps we're just evolving...


    --
    Scott Robert Ladd
    Master of Complexity
    Destroyer of Order and Chaos

  • That was so sad :,o( (Score:3)

    by Klowner ( 145731 ) on Sunday January 28, 2001 @04:55AM (#476075) Homepage
    I'm sorry for my blatent use of emoticons but I can't help but cry every time I think about when Fasa died in Disneys The Lion King(TM). And the the little lion cub.. I forget his name, I'm bad with names.. he sees him in the clouds and he talks to him, and that is SAD..

    wait, I'm thinking of Mufasa.. sorry
  • Wizards of the Coast may have downsized, but that does not necessarily mean they aren't growing in terms of financial and publication holdings. They had just released the hardbounds copies of the AD&D Third Edition shortly before acquiring Last Unicorn Games.

    FASA was sliding more visibly since the days they lost their Star Trek license. Granted, they had some powerful pieces like ShadowRun, but their overall holdings were slipping.

    What downsizing does mean for Wizards is that they've got bosses who felt it better to separate the haves from the have nots. The Owners seem to be doing quite well, regardless of how the workers, artists, and authors are fairing... and such is the nature of today's copyright; that an artist can drown while the distributor can lucritively exploit their work.

  • I was big into shadowrun and battletech as a teenager (early 90s), and so one spring break a friend of mine wanted to go visit Chicago - under the guise of seeing some colleges he didn't really want to attend. Three of us ended up going - and since I had called ahead and somehow gotten Lou Prosperi on the phone (creator of earthdawn, great guy) - we were invited to come in and tour the building.

    It was in a not-so-hot area of town, on the third floor of a large warehouse building, but once you were inside you forgot all of that. Original artwork from all of their diffrent books decorated the walls - one end of the hallway had a Shadorwun banner/logo that had to be 8 feet wide if it was an inch... Lou took us into the lounge/game-room where they spent a couple of hours everyday testing their own products and the competitions'... One wall was a series of shelves filled with more game books then you can count - it was amazing.

    Lou told us about their daily routine, and then showed us promotional materials (including a proof he brought straight from the art department for an upcomming ad in Dragon magazine) for the upcomming game Earthdawn, and we immediatly fell in love.

    Anyway, FASA for me meant good, detailed worlds with enough behind-the-scenes action going on, or at least hinted at, that you never got bored, and had plenty of material to use when GMing. In their later years the quality slacked off a bit in the artwork (or at least the on-staff artists changed and weren't in my style anymore) and the quality of the books - for me this death knell came much earlier, in '95 or '96 (I can't remember which) when it was anounced that Tom Dowd - one of the creators of Shadowrun and the maintainer of the game world/senior editor for all Shadorun products, left to work at FASA interactive. The new guy on staff had good ideas, but they didn't mesh with the way the game world had originally been presented - Tom had the Touch, this guy didn't...

    As I got further and further away from gaming in general and more focused on my career, I would look back on my gaming time as educational - I expanded my creativety, my social skills, and my problem solving ability. I'm slowly selling my game books collection on ebay, and now this... brings back memories I tell ya. It is a semi-sad day in the gaming world.

    The Fredonian Air and Space Association is no more (yes, thats what fasa stood for, a reference to a old marx brothers movie)! At least battletech and Shadowrun will live on.
  • I noticed a few people saying that BattleTech was a blatant ripoff of some Jap Anime things. Nope. It was an original idea of its creators, but the artwork for most of the original mechs was licensed from the people who made Macross. When Harmony Gold bought the rights to make a Macross show in the US, they theatened to put FASA out of business in endless court proceedings, despite the fact that FASA did have a legal right to use the artwork. Lacking the money to fight the case, they just gave it up. May be a couple things not quite right in my version of it, but this is the general feel of it. FASA was royally screwed over by Harmony Gold. Pyro
  • They should be on my Amiga, I'll have to do some looking around.

    --

  • Yep, I conversed quite a bit with Ralph on some technical aspects and adding a few features, so I had maybe 0.002% influence in the game, but Ralph did the job that damn few ever do. Write a game for game players.

    Sadly, Micro$oft holds all rights to BattleTech games, other than whatever Activision retains for their versions. If you think Micro$oft is interested in releasing a tactical simulation that you could play for weeks, months or years, think again.

    Ralph's last foray, in attempting to please FASA was to change names of all the 'Mechs and any reference to BattleTech, but that wasn't good enough. He never did spell out what the settlement was, but that they assumed all rights to his work and buried it.

    I have the skills to do one of these, and in Java would be pretty cool, allowing it to work on any platform ;-) I just don't have the time, though I still consider it as a good project for later this summer.

    As I see it, the way to go about this is to write a generic enough engine, that BattleTech-like parameters could be fed into. That should stymie the lawyers, right? ;-)

    --

  • So that's where Dowd went. SR really hasn't been the same since he left (it finally reach "big steaming pile" last year), and I hope, but doubt, that WizKids will find a way to get him back. I'd love nothing more than to see Weisman and Dowd take back the game, roll the clock back to 2055 or so, and try to stamp out the last few years. Enough of the evil AI's, President "D", Horro..er, "the Enemy", SR needs to get back to its roots, before saving the world became the minimum acceptable goal for a story arc.

  • It seems to me this is the trend in RPG now, TSR/Wizards/Ha$borg, West End bought by Yeti, Pinnacle being sold to Cybergames and then being bought back.

    More money behind the games may do some good for the quality of the products made, but it may make it hard for new game ideas to make it into the industry.

  • I see l33t sed syntax is considered "lame"...

    It should be "reins", not "reigns".

    --
    "Where, where is the town? Now, it's nothing but flowers!"

  • I don't think they'll be the last. White Wolf, for instance, is another big fat juicy target. Vampire and Mage were groundbreaking, but their work since then has been either boilerplate Whitewolf or worse, boilerplate for the RPG industry. Add to that their shortsighted financial policies and you see a company ripe for bankruptcy.

    FASA displayed similar tendencies. Battletech and Shadowrun haven't been interesting in years; they are good games, but there is no incentive to buy the new stuff. They were being pushed like young vibrant games, but they just weren't being taken in new directions. Crimson Skies is cool, but it has to go head to head with Gear Krieg and others. Battlespace was a joke-- you're better off playing with Full Thrust rules and miniatures.

    If you liked VOR, good news, the creator's contract stipulated that rights reverted back to him.

    The bottom line is that this is sad, but not unexpected. I would like to see the gaming industry do something new, which it really hasn't since Vampire (which itself was a repackaged Call of Cthulu). Gaming seems to do well in recessions, so it will be interesting to see what emerges.

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