Master of Orion III 119
gimpy writes "Alan Emrich is a gaming veteran's veteran. He's done it all, from boardgames to card games, from computer games to pen and paper role-playing. Now, he's working as designer and lead writer on a title that has strategy fans drooling: Master of Orion [?] III. SharkyGames recently had a chance to sit down with Alan and get the inside scoop on what's happening with MOO3." The website for the game is available as well. I cannot count the sheer number hours spent playing MOO/MOO2 - hopefully this can live up the legacy of those games.
Mixing MOO and WINE? (Score:1)
Sure being able to run C&C/Red Alert under WINE is cool, but what I'm really looking for are the classics. I prefer the originals since I never did get around to playing the sequels.
So, does anyone know if wine can run the orignal Microprose classics such as MOO, CIV and XCOM?
-cmh
Re:A Classic of Strategy (Score:1)
Anyways, the combat system.
Infantry was cheap but ineffective against tanks. Power armor was much more expensive than infantry but could stand it's own against heavy armor. Shuttle-lander type craft could move small numbers of troups anywhere on a planet. And general spacecraft would hawl your troops from star system to star system but be useless on the ground.
The diplomacy model is something which has yet to be seen again. Elegant and very detailed.
The game has since been patched to version 1.4 (about a year and a half after the game was developed too!). Many custom packs have been writen for the game, favorite of mine being NOVA which adds new units and alters the AI of the opponents. Most of the game's data files are in text or in plain readable gifs, so you can tweek it as you like (like civ2 I guess).
General info on the game is available at: http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?name=Emperor
A review is at:
http://www.pcme.com/strategy_vault/emperor_fading
And you can buy it at:
http://www.cdmag.com/cgi-bin/order.cbi_home?sourc
Though, I got it for 10$ in a discount bin years ago.
Re:Dammit! (Score:1)
I just wish Galactic Bloodshed would come back. Like MOO, I've heard (having never played MOO), but online and multiplayer, wierd text interface requiring a client, and better. Hmm.
Forget MOM, what about MOM? (Score:1)
Re:Heard MOO was good (Score:1)
Not the Undisputed King (Score:1)
Galactic Civilizations 2 was MUCH better!
(Note: GalCiv 2 was an OS/2 only game released
before Master of Orion original)
Re:OT: Pax Imperia (Score:1)
But please pass along my compliments for one of the best top level AIs I've played against. My only complaint is that it always went aggressive by the endgame - it gets brutal. I'd love to play against an AI one day that relies on the philosophy of "talk softly but carry a big stick."
And they did a pretty damn good job on the game overall, especially considering how the original Pax set a high bar for them to hurdle, if you ignore its instability. IMHO it still sets the standard for galactic-scale empire games. MOO2 came close; Spaceward Ho! was too easy to master.
OT: Pax Imperia (Score:1)
I worked with most of the Pax Imperia team this summer (they're no longer working on games...it's a startup that I'm not going to name so they don't get slashdotted...they only have a beta product atm...note I didn't say a
Oh, and yes, Eminent Domain was released for Windows.
Re:OT: Pax Imperia (Score:1)
Well, the same dev team made the original Pax, so...
Retro-grouch RTS rant. (Score:1)
If you can get this right, real-time without a god-damned frustrating interface, you'll revolutionize the industry and get all the girls. Until then the rest of us will keep re-playing MOO and MOM.
(Why do MOO 3 instead of a MOM 2? MOM was soooo much better than MOO.)
Kind Regards,
Re:A Classic of Strategy (Score:1)
XCom3 ship combat was not terribly complicated. You just pointed your swarm at the invaders and hoped too many buildings wouldn't get blown up in the process. Trying to control individual ships was futile.
Sucessful strategic and tactical level combat: MOM
MOM had a decent strategic level (move this stack here) and a decent tactical level (rangers shoot arrows, retreat). Tactics at the unit level made a huge difference in MOM. Horsebowmen ruled!
Kind Regards,
balance? (Score:1)
Re:A Classic of Strategy (turn based) (Score:1)
Mario.
Re:MOO! StarControl (Score:1)
Re:Retro-grouch RTS rant. (Score:1)
And we do MOO3 because that's what we were hired to do. But who says we don't want to do MOM2? (g)
David "Stormhound" Craft, Assistant Designer, Quicksilver Software Inc.
Re:If you like the genre (Score:1)
You can only order it online [shrapnelgames.com], I believe, but you're supporting a small independent game publisher, Shrapnel Games [shrapnelgames.com], by doing so. It's an amazingly good game for shareware.
Re:MOO! (Score:1)
how do I play this game???? (Score:1)
i can find MOO3 utilities, media, maps, etc... all kinds of stuff , except NOBODY says where and how I get it...
please help... i guess i am ignorant.
jon
Why.... (Score:1)
why tweak race (Score:1)
Re:Master of Magic (Score:1)
Re:Master of Magic 2? (Score:1)
Re:Let's not forget about MOM (Score:1)
Who knows how long it'd been out, though.
Re:Let's not forget about MOM (Score:1)
A couple of other people have mentioned it, but I just want to plug my all-time favorite game, Master of Magic, or MOM.
Hell yes. I still have that game. The disks wore out a long time ago, but I have disk images :)
As you might expect by the title, it's a fantasy-based game, which borrows heavily from the Magic:The Gathering style of magic system (Chaos, Life, Death, Nature, and Sorcery magics).
One nit to pick, this was pre-M:TG, wasn't it?
Holy Moos in India (Score:1)
If anyone wants MOO, email me. If anyone wants MOO2, email me, and I'll tell you where you can get it
Can't wait for MOO 3.
Re:Master of Magic (Score:1)
You might as well throw in a proper xcom sequel as well. Altough I still have hope for The Dreamland Chronicles...
---GEEK CODE---
Ver: 3.12
GCS/S d- s++: a-- C++++ UBCL+++ P+ L++
W+++ PS+ Y+ R+ b+++ h+(++) r++ y+
Re:A Classic of Strategy (Score:1)
MOO1/2 were great games. They had detailed ship combat and very simple ground combat.
XCOM1/2 was a great game. It had detailed ground combat and very simple ship combat.
I don't think it works well when games try to have two different "phases" of gameplay that are relatively isolated. Look at Star Wars Rebellion for example.
Re:Advice for MOO Newbies: (Score:1)
Hopefully won't be vaporware (Score:1)
Re:Forget MOM, what about MOM? (Score:1)
Dude, Psi-catifern all the way!
Re:MOO! (Score:1)
I hope you also have a laptop with you when you are traveling :)
--
Re:A Classic of Strategy (Score:1)
Amen to that! I get so sick of RTS games ... the
'instant reaction' aspect of RTS isn't really
appropriate for a galaxy-spanning conquest game,
anyway. ("Admiral Gawerfasd, I want you to launch ... no wait, Udfaf IV is under attack! I must take command there. Now ... oops, I forgot to order the construction of those new dreadnoughts. Great Ga-LAX-y! Just how is one person supposed to run an Empire all by themselves anyway??")
Has anyone tried the new version of Reach For The Stars from SSG [ssg.com.au]? The 80s version was a classic, and one of the original 4X games ... I haven't tried the new version, wondered if it was any good.
--
Hopefully better than SE IV (Score:1)
One of the best parts of SE IV is its configurability. That'd be nice to see in MOO3.
Re:Heard MOO was good (Score:1)
Of course it was turn based multi-player (suck!) Otherwise it was a blast...
Well, the thing I'm most worried is that the new MOO 3 will be too much realtime in combat; I and probably quite a few old grumpy gamers from the 80's love turn-based games. ;)
Re:Master of Magic 2? (Score:1)
THis is a game that I would truly love to see. I was positively addicted to the original and was always surprised that a sequel was never made.
I'd like a MOM2 too; the original was (and still is; thank god it works on NT;) a damn fine game. Oh the joy of getting Malleus up the levels and enjoying the artificer pick by making him some nice items, then just sending him to nuke entire armies of the enemy by himself... ;) Some company, please get rights for a sequel!
MOO versus Stars! (Score:1)
The designers of Stars! are making a new one. Stars! Supernova Genesis [crisium.com] sounds even better.
I won't buy MOO. I'll wait for Stars!
Interview (Score:1)
Galactic Bloodshed (Score:1)
It's loads of fun and addicting. Although, it necessitated you being near a DEC terminal at odd hours. I risked my job playing this game.
Re:Random nostalgia (Score:1)
Can't wait! (Score:1)
Amen!!! (Score:1)
At least someone in the game industry thinks the same way I do. If there is one more quake clone that doesnt add any good gameplay (The DS9 game) or another warcraft game I will just not buy it I suppose. Unfortuneatly I cant do anything else and am not pathetic enough to shoot myself over a game ;)
Re:MOO! (Score:1)
Yup. My favorite twist was when I'd cede over every one of my systems but the capital to that puny enemy, and then go through the now enemy systems, blowing them all away with half a dozen Death Stars. Great fun...
--
Master of Magic 2? (Score:1)
Re:Let's not forget about MOM (Score:1)
Re:Advice for MOO Newbies: (Score:1)
those were the days tho...
Re:Advice for MOO Newbies: (Score:1)
It is so horrible, and if you tend to play the long-game (research, rinse, repeat) then you're screwed.
YOU'RE BOTH WRONG!!! (Re:Not the Undisputed King (Score:1)
!!!!MASTERS OF MAGIC!!!!
i liked getting an army of those
red fire-breathing ducks that always hung
out at the volcanoes and trampling all my
enemies
that and the immortal-mega-halfling slingers
were cool too
Re:A Classic of Strategy (Score:1)
man-o-man
Re:Let's not forget about MOM (Score:1)
Re:MOO 1 (Score:1)
But she might start wondering why i haven't called in three weeks, and my employess will probably start wondering why i haven't shown up in a month.
oh well screw em' all I'll have moo3 to play !
Re:Advice for MOO Newbies: (Score:1)
based strategy empire-building game similar
to it) can be very fun multiplayer with the
following things:
A LAN
A TV
A VCR or DVD Player
Booze
Let me explain further... say you have (for the
sake of arguement, for some out there this
will be purely hypothetical) four friends
with computers.
So, you get these people to bring said computers
with them, and booze, too (unless you have the
cash to provide it, in which case, I'm your pal
too)... you set the PCs up so they can view the
television, you start said game, you put in a movie
and you play both the game and the movie. Those
who finish their turns, watch the movie, talk,
whatever, whilst the slow people finish up.
I've done this before with Alpha Centauri, and it
was pretty fun... though you can't do it every
weekend it is a good way to spend pass some time!
-Llah
Re:Random nostalgia (Score:1)
Was Commodore PET Progenitor? (Score:1)
old Commodore PET was the ancient
progenitor of this?
--
BT
NNNN
Tracy Johnson
Justin Thyme Productions
Sponsors Empire on the WEB at:
http://198.190.228.6/
Spaceward Ho! (Score:1)
Re:If you like the genre (Score:1)
Re:MOO versus Stars! (Score:1)
Silly player, you'll play them both. Why? Stars! Supernova Genesis comes out this year, MOO3 comes out in a year or two.
By the time MOO3 comes out you'll be looking for the next biggest thing after Stars! Supernova Genesis.
They both look like great games...
Re:sigh - no Linux version (Score:2)
that the status of a Linux version is "unknown at this time". Send them e-mail; let 'em know.
--
Master of Magic (Score:2)
--
Re:Bah (Score:2)
Sarcastic? Perhaps.
True, nonetheless. I still play Nethack to this day - it's the ultimate surviving example of game design over graphics.
Re:MOO! (Score:2)
Ahh, to be able to do some Cruel Brutal Damage again! I miss the days.
Anyone else like to go for the "massive overkill" victory where you kept the last race cooped up on a small, ultra poor planet until you maxxed all the technology levels and started pumping out stacks of 32000 ultra large ships just bristling with miniaturized weapons?
I'm surprised the planet survived.
I also hope they don't try to get too fancy with it and abandon the addictive simplicity involved. I dread the thought of them turning MOO3 into something like Star Control 3. Ugh. That would suck.
Frighteningly, MOO2 is still in my CD pouch of games I always take when I travel. Even if I'm tired of all the others, I know I can pull that out an be amused.
Non-System Planetoids (Score:2)
Interesting to see if they're going to end up taking this into account - wonder if it meshed well with their plans.
Not as bad as it sounds (Score:2)
They plan to do it different from current real time battle, ie not who can click the fastest. Will be interesting to see what they come up with.
Re:MOO BAA - WOOF! (Score:2)
Or maybe 'More Everlasting Orion Wars'
Re:If you like the genre (Score:2)
Makes me wonder how you would describe the graphics of any of its prior incarnations :)
The OP is correct that Shrapnel Games is only distributing SEIV through snailmail (this is not a downloadable game, it requires a CD in the drive to play).
Malfador Machinations [malfador.com] is the development team behind the Space Empires series -- the best thing about SEIV is the community (to which the developers actively belong). The game itself is a patch or two away from meeting the expectations of those who have played SEIII, imho. The documentation is many, many more "patches" away from being worthwhile :)
The OP linked to the Shrapnel Games homepage -- those interested in the actual product might be interested in the actual product page [shrapnelgames.com].
Re:Heard MOO was good (Score:2)
Not terribly surprising, given that both titles were distributed through Microprose.
There was even a MOO scenario distributed for CivII in both a scenario pack [gamesdomain.com] and in the Collector's Edition [gamesdomain.com].
Re:Heard MOO was good (Score:2)
Basicly you colonize planets and try to dominate the galaxy. What I liked was the close fighting. If you wanted it to it would zoom in and you could direct the battle.
It had the standards for diplomacy. You could form trade or research treaties with other
races.
Every race had special abilities and you could even play a custom race.
It even had a bit of a story line similar to B5 with the first ones. One planet in the galaxy was orion and was rich expect it was guarded by an ancient but powerful ship. Another planet was in hyperspace and that's where the Orions banished their enemy. Occassionaly the enemy breaks out and sows maddess and destruction.
It's very addicting. At least it was for me, I played it for entire days!
Re:Heard MOO was good (Score:2)
Choose Primary race types (Energy beings, stargate masters, etc)
Choose Secondary race attributes (excel at remote mining robots but have poorer engines, etc)
Choose Environmental Conditions (optimal gravity, temperature and radiation)
Choose how productive your race is at building and mining
Choose how prolific your race is
Choose how good your race is at researching each broad category of science
Tons of options and configuration possibilities....Everything is done on points, and each race characteristic (good or bad) gives or takes points, with the only restriction being your race points must be positive (you can't have taken too many good traits, without balancing with some poor ones)....fun fun fun
MOO had it all (Score:2)
Another amazing aspect of MOO was how the game scaled. In the beginning you managed your single home system and maybe a few neighbouring systems. Building the colony improvements in the right order was very important as it gave you a boost over the other nations early on in the game. As the game progressed you could give over colonies for the computer to manage and concentrate on drawing up the big war campaign strategies, managing fleets and the border colonies while the core of the empire churned out science and new ships. And as your fleet of 50+ Doom Stars (2 stellar converters each, and time-warp faciliator) orbit the last alien planet, you can't help but smile
Well, there goes my college education... (Score:2)
There's no way I can get addicted to a MOO sequel and stay and school at the same time.
And I *certainly* know which one will get higher priority.
Re: Invisible Flying Battleships (Score:2)
Probably not many are still reading this thread, but I'll post it anyway. Gamefaqs.com has a MOM message board that a few of us have been haunting in recent weeks. The posting has dropped to a minimum as of late, but if anyone out there's still listening and interested, stop on by, and do your part to revitalize the board!
Here's The Link! [gamefaqs.com]
Re:how do I play this game???? (Score:2)
--
Re:sigh - no Linux version (Score:2)
Risky job (Score:2)
Good luck Alan Emrich - the gaming world is watching, and we've been playing FPSs while waiting for number 3...
Re:Heard MOO was good (Score:2)
Re:Let's not forget about MOM (Score:2)
(Calms down, sighs, submits - puts down homework, digs through box of CDs, pulls out MOM, grade in English 252 takes a nosedive)
---
MOO BAA (Score:2)
Dancin Santa
It's really good (Score:2)
It's more like Master of Magic than Master of Orion, IMHO.
Dancin Santa
Masters of Game Design (Score:2)
On the other hand, Eidos is rumored to have given funding to another Romero project.
Re:Advice for MOO Newbies: (Score:3)
Actually, the new game has features meant to deal with this specifically. From the faq:
--
Universe - An open source alternative (Score:3)
Since its written in Java, it works under Linux (and developed for the most part under Linux.)
High Standards to Beat (Score:3)
Can Quicksilver find a combination of these three that produces some synergy, without having to improve on all of the above games? A lot of it can be done with the application of aesthetic sense, common sense and attention to detail, but it sounds like they have a real challenge in the AI area.
I had one of the first copies of MOO2 out of the carton at my local game store, and I loved it. But I quickly mastered it. Pax Imperia II for the Mac became my new galactic empire game, and I've yet to master the most difficult settings. So there's yet another comparison MOO3 must win...
Best of luck for them - I admit I'm anxious to see what they turn out...
Re:A Classic of Strategy (Score:3)
You're asking for two types of game in one, here. Do you really want to be in the middle of empire management, and then spend two hours in a Starcraft-esque tactical battle? Not only will it totally bloat the game, but they'd have to reinvent a wheel that's already got tough competition, and it would ruin the continuity of the overall game.
If they could just smooth the edges off of the MOO2 fleet combat mechanics, I'd be happy. I had a lot of fun going to war in MOO2.
One of the few problems I had in this area was that a lot of the combats were totally unbalanced. Tech levels could vary so much that often, one or the other combatant was totally outmatched. This can be fun when you're the one on top, but it's still nowhere near as fun as a good contest between equally matched opponents.
More Ship types/mods
I would add that they need custom starship design. If you haven't seen Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain yet (was it released for Windows?) take a look at it, especially the research and custom ship designs. The original Pax had even MORE detail in its system and ship design screens, but that was abandoned due to the dubious excuse of it was too complex. Some people loved it.
3-dimetional glaxy map and space combat
Oh yeah. If they could pull that off, it would be a hit even if other parts of it sucked.
That things stay turn based.
I'd generally agree, but when things were slow, I'd want the option to let the clock run while I manage the economy, production, etc... Games like this can sometimes be long periods of tedium interrupted by crises.
MOM 2 Petition (Score:3)
There is a petition for a Master of Magic sequel here [thanesgames.com]. This game is just crying out for a sequel. I would absolutely love to see what a Flame Strike would look like with today's graphics capabilities.
--
Random nostalgia (Score:3)
Re:Mixing MOO and WINE? (Score:3)
yeah, the classics run fine
//rdj
Better network code... (Score:3)
I figured, well, the game took some time on P166s with modems, so it'll fly now... nope...
They game was mad fun, but waitting to sync was maddening.
Alex
Re:Nooooo! (Score:3)
So go get a country CD, and play it backwards. You get your job back, your girl back, your dog comes back to life...
Obligatory self-centered post (Score:3)
Also, I submitted the same story last Tuesday and it was rejected! I take this as a personal insult!
[Before flaming, please re-read this post as parody. Thank you.]
TheFrood
Re:MOO 1 (Score:3)
I might have to adopt your tactic though, so my wife doesn't catch me.
Bah (Score:3)
Ah yes, nethack, the one true game.
Yours,
Bob
If you like the genre (Score:3)
However, if you're interested in the strategy side of things, it's got a lot going for it.
Moo Lover (Score:4)
I enjoyed MOO II because of the technology update, but also the new rules and stuff were a GOOD addition. Someone here KNOWS how to make a game, and KNOWS how to make sequels!
A Classic of Strategy (Score:4)
Creative, +2 research, +1 Production -20% down the middle... the standard Custom race.
This is also the game that truly threw me into network gaming. I am glad that there is going to be a sequel and I am anxious to hear about added features. The "official site" is dismally slow right now (No doubt the impact of slashdot readers). But I personally am hoping for:
Detailed ground combat
More options for custom races
More races
More Ship types/mods
3-dimetional glaxy map and space combat
That things stay turn based.
In this age of RTS games I think we need new, good turn based strategy game. Something I haven't seen since Alpha Centauri.
MOO! (Score:4)
I really hope they can manage to catch the original spirit of the games. The web site talks about random generated "plot lines". Imperium Galactica II, another X4 game, tried it and it didn't really work (plus the game was just lame, enless micromanagment and no ship customizing! Plus who's the genius to come up with "interesting" techs like Laser 1 and Laser 2? MOO is all about the cool ships/technologies, I want my stellar converters and spatial compressors and xentronium armor
Re:Well, there goes my college education... (Score:4)
- Forget your dreams of Stanford or Northwestern, and enroll at a university where they don't get all upset about missing class once or twice a week. Focus your search on mid-sized universities with either an excellent basketball or football program: chances are they have many classes that grade "on the curve".
- Limit your course load to around 15 hours a semester, or better yet, the minimum of 12. Sure, it will add another year to your stay, but that can only be a good thing. A lot of advisors will try to sneak you into Physics and Calculus class in the same semester with promises of "similar course material": resist the temptation.
- Never take more than 2 classes that count for more than 3 credit hours in one semester. Also, for every class that has a number starting with 5 or higher (501, 637, etc), you must have two classes that are 250 or lower.
- Be sure to get a job as a computer lab procter, preferrably in the education, english, or buisness departments. You can pretty much do anything you want on a computer in those places.
- Focus your energies! Sure, that lab paper was due two days ago, but is it really worth losing valuable Achilles Targeting Unit research time?
Nooooo! (Score:4)
When MOO2 was out I was in college! I had no girlfriend! I had a part time job! I could afford to spend 36 hours straight playing computer games!
I'm going to lose my job, my girlfriend, my dog...
Dammit! (Score:4)
MOO 1 (Score:5)
We would spend so many countless hours playing that game, I'm afraid to pick up a copy of MOO3 when it comes out!
Let's not forget about MOM (Score:5)
To say MOM was inspired by MOO is of course accurate, but it's also not doing MOM justice. Not exactly a "sequel", and more than just a knock-off, MOM had a level of strategy and depth of gameplay all it's own. As you might expect by the title, it's a fantasy-based game, which borrows heavily from the Magic:The Gathering style of magic system (Chaos, Life, Death, Nature, and Sorcery magics). The gameplay was also similar to MOO, in that you started with a home city (planet), and from there could build or capture other cities while battling enemy wizards. A unique twist in MOM was the addition of "nodes"; mana-generating squares that you had to capture, guard, and channel for more magical energy.
Unlike MOO, where exploration and combat was relegated mostly to ships, you had a variety of forces at your command in MOM. Normal units like pikeman, archers, and magicians could be trained. You could also summon up to 6 hero's, who not only had thier own unique skills and abilities (plus the ability to cast magic for some), but could wield powerful artifacts to increase thier strenght. In addition, you could summon monsters to do your bidding, things like drakes, fire giants, and the ever-popular wraiths.
Thanks to the sheer number of possibilities of starting pick combinations, combined with different strategies available for waging war, MOM had some incredible replay value. I still occasionally play MOM even today, and I still get a kick out of trying some new strategy or pick-combination once in a while.
Microprose made me their bitch for most of the 90's with MOM, along with titles like MOO, MOO2, Civ, Civ2, Colonization, and XCom 1&2. It's a damn shame that they never got around to making MOM2, and there are those of us still hopeful, though the possibility seems less likely every day. I mean damn: if they can churn out 3 MOO's, 3 Civ's, and 4 XCom titles, surely there's room in the world for MOM2?
Advice for MOO Newbies: (Score:5)
"Me Ted"