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Games Entertainment

Sony And Connectix Settle Out Of Court 51

Posted by Hemos from the the-end-of-the-battle dept.
Halkun writes "Sony and Connectix settle out of court. The story is at www.psxemu.com's home page" We've had a whole slew of stories about this. Once the terms are released, this whole have a big effect on the whole emulation scene, I predict.
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Sony And Connectix Settle Out Of Court More

Sony And Connectix Settle Out Of Court

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  • I still don't understand why Sony is trying to sue people writing emulators. After all, they loose money on the hardware, so an emulator is a good thing for them...
    Besides, I really don't believe Piracy can be linked with emulation for the Playstation. After all, you can read "backup" CDs with your Playstation and a little converter.

    I have the feeling this is just a kind of bad habit. Sony is being protective because big companies have to be paranoid and sue everything that might infringe on their copyrights.

  • If Connectix programmers are so good, maybe Apple should hire them to do an MacOS X emulator for x86 machines...

    Eh? If if Apple wanted to run MacOS X on x86 boxes for some unlikely reason, they wouldn't need to emulate it. People have already tweaked the base of MacOS X -- Darwin -- to run on x86. It would be a matter of porting the rest of MacOS X, not emulating it.

  • Are there any Open Source People(tm) working on a play station emulator? How about PS2?
    How much work would go into a project like that? I assume alot more then just some other app, as its emulating a machine.


    Fight censors!
  • If Connectix programmers are so good, maybe Apple should hire them to do an MacOS X emulator for x86 machines... Great software on cheap hardware anyone?

    OBS
  • I agree with you on that, but people's will might be a little shakey about doing anything if they are able to be pushed around by big corps like sony.

    I personaly would like to start work on a PS2 emulator. I have no idea where to start, but I know I dont want to go public until its almost done, or (as a person not a company) I will be sued untill I die. And that wouldnt be long considering how much an attorney costs these days.


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  • Firstly, those system specs for a 1st generation emulator are abysmally low. Assuming some genius whipped together a PS2 emulator that actually worked, you'd need more on the range of 2Ghz and about a gig of RAM. No new game console emulator has ever ran worth a damn without needing some pretty top end hardware to run on (UltraHLE, anyone?).

    Secondly, (and more obviously), check out the URL: ekafemulator.com. The first 4 letters are just 'fake' spelled backwards. Funny joke, actually :)

  • This site [ekafemulator.com] apparently has the worlds first working PS2 emulator. It's in extreme beta and the readme included in the zip states minimum requirements as:
    PIII 550Mhz
    32Meg+ Video Card
    128Mb of RAM.

    I haven't tried it yet, as I'm at work, but I'll be trying it tonight as soon as I get home.
    --
  • While I haven't tried this either, a glance at their website makes me think this is a somewhat elaborate hoax.
    First, the name of the thing is ekafemulator. Turn the first 4 letters around. fake.
    Next, their troubleshooting page is practically non-sequetor and references a bad URL on sony's site which they conveniently don't bother to put into an anchor tag (so you need to copy/paste it to try it).
    Finally, it seems rather unlikely that a 500mhz PIII can emulate a PS2.
    Don't you need something around a 500mhz PIII just to emulate an N64??
    Sounds fishy to me...
  • Not to slander/libel/whatever_you_call_it_online every site out there, but fake emulators are notorious for containing virii, trojans, and the like.

    Just a note of caution...

  • You see, Sony used the CPU from the PSX to manage the PS2, allowing it to play PSX games also. So of course Sony will use the PS2 CPUs (i hate pluralizing intialations), probly in an all on one chip setup, to manage the PS3. That leaves them with no backwards compatibility with the PSX. So in comes Connectix with its PSX emulator to go in the system ROMs. You get the cutting edge game system playing Crash Bandacoot 1 through 5 or 6. Everyones happy and Sony just keeps building that game base.

  • Yes but the corporate machines are taking out the foot solidiers, these are guys with no ambition for great wealth what happens ? the get investment , earn money than they care to know what to do with for a year or two , the goverment shuts them down , these innovative guys still have all the money they earned in the startup phase as salarys, so what happens they mull around a few years later after there companies are forced to shut down for whatever copyright law, they will just start something new , not for money once again , but because they are bored , and miss the chalange, shawn flanning , will never go to jail , and his anual 6 figure salary he has been getting will never be taken back , but napster might fold yeah sure, but then again so what if it does , the nature of foot solidiers is you knock one down 5 more stand up to take his place, they are fighting a loosing battle, one where the corporate paradigms have nothing but vapour and legend to try grab on and stop .

  • Maccentral has the story [macworld.com]. Sony paid Connectix and acquired the rights to Virtual GameStation. It's the Microsoft strategy -- "if you can't beat 'em, buy 'em".

  • Okay, I'll give you that (as if I have a choice, right? =P), but the other parts of my argument stand. I can use real PSX accessories, and I can keep my computer's monitor free for other things.

    It is a good option if you can't afford the console...though you should be able to pick up a used one for cheap. Or maybe if you don't have a TV. I still think that even the a prefect emulator doesn't compare to the real console.

    --

  • Connectix has been a clever company for longer than that.

    I particularly liked Mode32 (modifying "dirty" ROMs in RAM/PRAM so that 32-bit addressing was possible on older systems), though RAM Doubler for Windows 3.x was clever too.

    Not so much the memory compression/new VM scheme (iffy on either platform), but because they doubled the size of the GDI, user, etc. stack. Even under Win9x it's fairly common to run out of system resources long before you go into constant-paging mode, even though Microsoft claimed to have "fixed" this flaw.

    They also had a product that implemented VM on Macs a year or two before the OS introduced it. Damned if I can remember the name since I'm goofy from sleep deprivation...

  • Re:So what's the problem? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is neglecting the passage of time and engineering revisions.

    The situation of losing money on consoles only applies to the early days of a system release. The PS1 as it exists now does not sell at a lost. No significant profit either but that is vastly less important.
  • "I personaly dont understand why anyone would even want to play a playstation anymore, I would rather use a computer with emulation because they can enhance every aspect."

    When they work perfectly, they sure can, yeah. I love my NES and Genesis emulators. But PSX?

    My experience with Bleem was that if a game works, it works well, but if it doesn't work, it's almost unplayable. And there are tons of games with problems... "can't play sound," "video in black and white only," issues like that. And I could never get it to smooth out my graphics and still perform well.

    So I bought a PSOne. I love it. Know why? Every PSX game ever made works perfectly with it. I can use actual PSX controllers and accessories, and real memory cards. And I can play it on my TV, leaving my computer monitor free so I can watch for incoming messages and email.

    Personally, I don't understand why anyone would want to use an emulator if they have access to the real thing.

    --

  • Real OOG break head with open source CD!

  • This case should have been taken to trial (Score:3)

    by Cerlyn ( 202990 ) on Wednesday March 14, 2001 @06:12AM (#364870)

    If reporting potential witness was indeed a real witness, and Connectix has indeed settled with Sony, what does it mean for bleem, which also is being sued by Sony for their Playstation(tm) emulator? What does it mean for all the other Playstation emulators out there (ePSXe [epsxe.com was down at last check], AdriPSX [psxemu.com], etc.).

    Face it; if someone thought they were going to lose in this case, they did not want to set precedent that would look good for the other side. By the other side letting them not setting a precedent, no ruling has been made.

    So the next emulator to go on trial has nothing to cite from this case, and likely will drag out just as long as Sony v. Connectix has. In my personal view, the side that had the choice should have declined settlement, and they just should forced the completion of the case until a verdict or the other side resigned.

    While I have no idea how long this link will last, here is the court schedule [uscourts.gov] of Judge Legge, who was presiding over the case. Note that this week was supposed to mark the start of the jury trial. This just seems like someone wanted to run someone out of money until the last possible minute. I do not like this one bit.

  • From the rumors [theregister.co.uk] of what kind of beast the PS3's processor is going to be, I think it would be easier for the PS3 to emulate the PS1. It'll certainly have the power to do so. That way they wouldn't need to add the PS1 processor to the box.

    Use the PS2 processor for something else, maybe? The upcoming PS3 processor is (supposedly) going to be built on the same technology that made the Emotion Engine. Perhaps just a faster version of the Emotion Engine. That way using PS2 software on a PS3 would be the same as using software developed on a PIII on a P4.

    That's the dream anyway
    --
  • Have the big corporations stop the innovation ? No, the emulator guys , mp3 guys video guys, will always go on regardless of law suites against people they have no personal contact with it's to far removed all these guys start doing this because they think it's fun and cool , never because they want to become millionares and take on music industrys , the corporations are putting out the matches that are starting the brush fires
  • It may not be next week, or even this year, but history shows it will be. It's only a matter of when.

    But that's exactly the point: by making it happen later rather than sooner they (sony) get the time to get the big $$$ and launch ps3, ps4 etc.
    By the time ps/2 emulators will be widely available, ps/2 games will be very old news.
  • I think Connectix will do a much better job, and they clearly wont be held up with lawsuits as much. Unless when they settled they agreed not to make a PS2 emulator....

    That would be a bad idea, because someone else could... but that would just mean Connectix wouldnt. Anyone have a thought on that? Does anyone think sony paid them off so that they wouldnt make a PS2 or PS3?


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  • "I think that would make sense if there wernt any PS2 Emulators."

    Really? Care to give a URL? All the ones I've heard about turn out to be fakes. Certainly, there's nothing on www.vintagegaming.com about one that will run games yet.
  • FPSE [emusphere.com] open sourced but not GPL, you still need the authors permission to modify or distribute.
  • Why?
    Because with that extra money you save (its about $30 for their software) you can buy a game, and have enhanced graphics. And you can patch the software so you can copy the games, and most people can patch better then they can open their ps up and insert a mod chip...
    Also, with a computer you can do all sorts of great stuff you cant with a normal ps1, like screen shots, modify that last game shot so your score is higher, use any cheap peice of hardware, use your monitor, use your optical logitec mouse, ect.

    But the best reason for me was I didnt have to get a TV I hate Tv, so this makes it better.
    Granted you dont get to play all the games, but you get enough.

    And to anwser your question Connectix makes money because they are fucking GREATM programmers, if you have a mac you know what I am talking about.


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  • Thanks
    But is there a linux emulator?




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  • Aah, I understand now. :)

    It would be quite cool to have PS2 emulation, but while I don't doubt the ingenuity of the Connectix people, the PS2 works in quite a different way to PC architecture; the whole thing is one big fat memory pipe to the RAMBUS main memory, with very small quantities of memory for the video display, rather than the small (but low latency) pipes and big caches of PC architectures.

    Which is to say that PS2 emulation on a current PC will probably be rather slow, but also getting a PS2 to emulate a PC wouldn't be the wonderful thing that some of the more easily excited fanboys suggested back in the days of vapour.
  • Yes, there is - FPSE has a linux as well as a windows port, according to the site. My Linux partition is still down however, so I haven't tested it.
  • My experience with Bleem was . . .

    Stop. Don't say another word about Bleem. It does not compare to VGS [google.com]. The geeks at Connectix [connectix.com] are freaking masters of emulation [connectix.com].

  • I think an Athlon with DDR would smoke a PS2, but I doubt we will see any benchmarks :)


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  • They probably both have their own deeper reasons but from my point of view, of Sony and Connectox were to unite and create one true PSX emulator then the problem would be solved.

    Sony would give all the technology Connectix needs to fix all compatibility issue in VGS and in exchange Sony would receive a certain percentage of the sales, not counting that that the selling of games might also increase since there is no known or nearly ready PS2 emulator.

    That means that all the guys who doesn't have a PSX or a PS2 could still play PSX Games without being afraid of being a pirate or something :)

    Well if we were to push the irony, we could extend that possibility to the PS2 but I highly doubt that Sony will be so eager to give their technology to someone else even for money, after all, they make most of their money out of the PS2 so they kinda want to force the selling of PS2's which is perfectly normal, but I think that this doesn't apply to the PS1 anymore though.

    Stephane Dorion
  • Sony once dropped [macnn.com] one of its suits (which was already truncated [cnet.com] to only 2 of the 9 original charges), only to bring a new one [cnet.com] the next day. Of course, they only brought that suit [cnet.com] after an appeals court decided to reverse [cnet.com] the first ruling and declare VGS "fair use". Now they've lost in the last piece of litigation against Connectix. Is it finally over?! Maybe they'll just file yet another suit with a slight difference to continue to harass Connectix. And what about that other company [bleem.com] Sony sued [cnet.com]? How does this affect them?
  • Man, SONY just needs to be cool and lay back. If they want people to like them, they should just walk away from the Connectix situation and pretend like they don't exist.

    SONY wants to stifle Innovation. By my definition, innovation means coming up with new ways to get me stuff for free. Napster was a great innovation. Allowing me to run PS1 games on my $1,400 computer to save me $199 is a wonderful innovation.

    Corporate geed is worst when gets in the way of me getting free stuff. [ridiculopathy.com]

  • I personaly don't understand why anyone would even want to play a playstation anymore, I would rather use a computer with emulation because they can enhance every aspect.

    There's the social aspect to think of. Most of the time using computers is a fairly solitary task for people, TV is much more sociable because of the way people setup their computer stations and their TV entertainment area. I don't yet know of anyone that's put a computer in their entertainment area in place of a TV, although some do this, it is uncommon and expensive to get a decent display size.

    It's cheap to buy a 32" TV and have four players on it. IMO even a 21" monitor is too small for more than one person and most computer setups are simply too cramped. Sure, there's the LAN play option but not everyone wants to haul their computers to a LAN party, except for the die-hard gamers.
  • The industry makes money on games and loses money on consoles. An emulator should be a win.

  • Sony used the CPU from the PSX to manage the PS2, allowing it to play PSX games also. So of course Sony will use the PS2 CPUs (i hate pluralizing intialations), probly in an all on one chip setup, to manage the PS3. That leaves them with no backwards compatibility with the PSX.

    Except the PSX chip is required to run PS2 games; it serves as an I/O processor. This arrangement is fairly common; a Sega Master System is the I/O processor for the Sega Genesis.

    Sony just keeps building that game base.

    Actually, that was Toaplan [toaplan.com].


    All your hallucinogen [pineight.com] are belong to us.

  • By then, you should be able to pick up a PSONE from Funcoland for $15.

    Except the PSONE apparently has no serial port for connecting a console to another console for two-player two-TV gaming.


    All your hallucinogen [pineight.com] are belong to us.
  • Or, if Sony lost this, then they wouldn't be able to make emulators for other platforms in their Playstation 3s.
  • With PS2s (I know, I know, the console not the IBM one) now coming through at a rate that can supply demand, the PSOne is less important to Sony - certainly less prestigious. So basically Sony's lawyers have managed to stall Connectix long enough for the product to have reached near the end of its life in any case.

    Besides, Sony still make money off every Playstation title sold, no matter how the consumers play it.
  • The site linked (http://www.psxemu.com/) has no actual information about this.
    This about sums it up: As weeks went on, the said author was preparing for trial, when he recieved word that the case was resolved without the need for a trial. He did not receive any specifics, but he did receive permission to tell others the news. And here it is ;)
    Yea here it is: Nothing Good job posting this crap Hemos.



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  • Re:settle what? (Score:4)

    by VValdo ( 10446 ) on Wednesday March 14, 2001 @12:31AM (#364893)
    Although the link is slashdotted to hell, I presume this has to do with the Playstation emulator (called the Virtual Play Station) that Connectix made for the Mac.

    Connectix, incidentally, is a company that I suspect is comprised of aliens with advanced technology OR possibly someone with a time machine. Among their breakthrough offerings (breakthough at the time, anyway) -- RamDoubler, Speeddoubler, Virtual PC, and VPS.

    W

    -------------------
  • I think that would make sense if there wernt any PS2 Emulators.


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  • Pretty vague.. (Score:5)

    by Jace of Fuse! ( 72042 ) on Wednesday March 14, 2001 @12:32AM (#364895) Homepage
    ...but if true I suspect it may be that Sony no longer feels that the original Playstation is too big of an issue to keep fighting for.

    Besides, if they actually lost this case to Connectix, then it would probably set some kind of precedent, and they can't have that considering they have something much larger to worry about... future Playstation 2 Emulation.

    It may not be next week, or even this year, but history shows it will be. It's only a matter of when.



    "Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
  • If someone has a the will they can figure out how something works. If you are wondering what I am talking about look at these docs [execpc.com]. Some took apart thier playstation and figured out how it works.
  • Connectix did, however, bring us the era of cheap PC cameras, which they then sold off to Logitech [logitech.com]. The QuickCam, which I have one sitting on my desk, the original B&W, was awesome for it's time.
  • Rather what I should have said was if there wernt a shit load of people working on it at Connectix. :)

    Sorry.

    But as Connectix has some of the best programmers around (IMHO), it will be no time untill every mac and PC with a dvd drive can do PS2 emulation. I dont know every bit of ps2 hardware, but what I do know, I know my peice of shit pc I am using right now, could duplicate it. I hope that someone is working on it and have opened it up, so that I can get a version for linux. I doubt Connectix will do a linux version, Os X but not linux for 86. Or am I wrong? Will there be a version for linux (x86)?


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  • Thanks, I saw the windows screen shots and just went to the badly written FAQ.




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  • Connectix is a company. You can stop a company. If they GPLed it, then it would be hard (if possible at all) to stop.


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  • future Playstation 2 Emulation

    What are the chances they settled for lots of cash, and have agreed to not produce a PS2 emulator? Perhaps even a PS3?


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  • Re:Pretty vague.. (Score:3)

    by ConsumedByTV ( 243497 ) on Wednesday March 14, 2001 @12:43AM (#364902) Homepage
    There has been precedent.
    What argument is even left on sonys side? Read this [execpc.com] if you want to know about every thing connectix has been able to emulate.

    After all as long as they continute to use hardware that can be easily put into a computer (eg: standard cdrom or dvd) they will get this type of problem. I personaly dont understand why anyone would even want to play a playstation anymore, I would rather use a computer with emulation because they can enhance every aspect.

    The best part of emulation I have encountered is that I can use cheap controlers and have cheap game saving storage. I wont even get into the blockbuster rent thing...


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  • Here here, good modding, for once!

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