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Games Entertainment

Black & White Goes Gold 118

Posted by michael from the and-read-all-over dept.
jaredcat writes "According to bwcenter.com and an article on ZDNet's GameSpot, Peter Molyneux's eagerly awaited Black & White has finally gone gold and will be shipping in North America on 3/27/01. I know what I'll be doing for spring break..." I just read that ZDNet article linked above - the ASPCA will be protesting this game, mark my words.
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Black & White Goes Gold More

Black & White Goes Gold

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  • Re:Boxes? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    OTOH, perhaps "properly" means that you, personally, must make a choice that has some cost to you, rather than being given a lazy way out of the dilemma.

    FWIW.

  • In 2001 war was beginning... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    B&W: All your god are belong to us

    Player: Someone set us up the game.

  • Re:Boxes? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    How about adding a form for a $5 microsoft stock option to the black box, when you have bought the stock, you will get your game serial ;-)

  • For The Otherwise Uninformed: (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16, 2001 @08:32PM (#358393)
    Hello, I'm The Kid. I run a Black & White site called "The Citadel". As of right now, we are having server issues, but will soon be relaunching @ http://www.thecitadel.net. Now that the obligatory plug is out of the way, here's the skinny on Black & White. The following is the Newbie Guide to Black & White from thecitadel.net. It's a tad dated, but I did a once-over and freshened it up a bit. Enjoy.


    Welcome to the First Edition of the Newbie's Guide to Black & White. This text is a compilation of information that those whom do not know much about Black & White tend to ask. Information has been culled from many sources to put this together, most notably the Lionhead web site and the Black & White discussion board. Please note that this is NOT an official text. None of what is posted here is written in stone; Lionhead could change it at any moment.

    What is 'Black & White'? 'Black & White' is a game created by Lionhead Studios [lionhead.co.uk]. It tends to defy genres, casting you in the role of a powerful sorcerer looking over a land of primitive tribes. You derive the power you need to cast your spells from the lifeforce generated by the tribes' villagers.
    Therefore, one portion of the game is impressing (either through fear or adoration) the tribes sufficiently so that they construct a sort of monument in their village. Generally, the monument is a totem or tower of some sort. By raising and lowering the totem, you tell the villagers how many of them you want to have worshipping you (and thereby giving you power) and how hard they should worship. Of course, if you overwork your followers, they will begin to die off from exhaustion and starvation, as the more villagers are worshipping you, the fewer are off gathering food, building houses, having children, etc.
    Another portion of the game is trying to screw the other sorcerers in the land. You're not alone in Eden, as this land is called, and the other sorcerers will eventually begin trying to take your hard-won villagers from you. You can fight back with powerful spells, either blasting them and their villagers to smithereens or attempting to peacefully win over their villagers, thereby starving them of their power.
    The third portion of the game is that of mentor. Once you begin gaining in power, you can select any of the myriad beasts you see prowling the landscape to be your own pet Titan. You will magically enhance the creature, causing it to grow to gargantuan proportions, towering meters above the land and the villagers. But the beast comes to you stupid; you must teach him what to do and what not to do. This is done simply through slapping him when you want to discourage his behaviour and stroking him when you want to encourage his behaviour. The Titans are supposedly remarkably trainable. In one report, Peter Molyneux trained a pet ape to throw stones as a weapon. Your pet Titan will also learn the spells that you cast and use them itself as it sees fit. Teach it Fireball and it can go level villages if it likes. Teach it Create Food and it can feed your villagers for you.
    This description just begins to scratch the complex surface of Black & White. You'll have to play it for yourself to really experience it.

    Who made it? Black & White was first conceptualized by Peter Molyneux. It was produced by Molyneux's new company, Lionhead Studios [lionhead.co.uk].

  • Dungeon keeper in 1 hour? Forgive me if i think your sense of time is a tad off. It wasn't a difficult game by any means, but i think it's a physical impossibility to beat the entire game in an hour. The levels just can't be played that fast without cheats.

  • Many people don't really consider having some fun to be wasteful. As long as you're not spending your life in a game all the time (Evercrack and UO come to mind) then it's no big deal. Can't work all the time.

  • The difference being that with the server version you are also buying the necessary license to allow (more than 5?) users to connect to the server legally.

  • It wasn't so long ago that the term "FMV" associated with any game automatically meant it sucked. I don't recall a single decent FMV game... ever.

  • The idea was nixed because retailers were balking at having the same game with two different prices.

    That's odd. They seem happy to sell "workstation" and "server" copies of identical software at radically different price points.

  • my first thought was of the invention of the babel fish:

    "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

    "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

    "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

    "Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed at the next zebra crossing.


    jebus, I miss douglas adams
  • The above link contains id information in the URL and so isn't useful for new signatures. Instead, go to the front http://www.tuxgames.com/ [tuxgames.com] page and follow the petitions link there -- that way you'll get your own id and the vote will actually be counted.

    --

  • I remember some time ago (e3) there was a /. article speculating b&w going os [slashdot.org]. Molyneux was quoted at thecitidal.net (by RP) that ....

    "The first thing is my ambition to make the whole of Black & White, the AI engine, the 3D engine, the physics engine, open-source. Then anybody can download and use that stuff. To use it in a commercial product, you have to pay us a royalty, but, you know, absolutely free for enthusiasts to use."

    couldn't get to the citidal link but the /. comments are there to read.
  • Do you mean Populous, one of Molyneaux's earlier 'God games'?
  • That's marketing for you...

    "What's all this dull, lifeless product information doing on this website? Screw that crap, we've got a game to sell! And to sell we need a cool tune! And a splashy graphic! And a button to buy the game, of course!"

    Am I the only one who remembers the gaming industry being a better place before the bloodsucking leeches with marketing degrees came along?

    Grumble...
  • AMEN from the highest fucking rooftops, especially about Sierra. They pissed off a whooooooooole lot of us Babylon 5 fans. I was actually going to *buy* that game, and I'm the kind of cheapskate bastard that the SPA hates.
  • Stilproject [stileproject.com] satisfies all those requirements, except for stories involving the Slashdot staff.
  • EA have a simple strategy when it comes to games - I know because they told me it up front when we talked to them about publishing our game.

    Basically, they're interested in two types of games:

    * Games produced by developers with a track record of a number of hit games.
    * Sequels.

    That's it. They weren't interested otherwise, and told us so.

    From some points of view, it's not a good strategy, and from others it is.

    I'm only repeating this here because they didn't seem to be all that coy about it.

    Tim
  • precisely.

    i wasted a lot of time on populous, and i don't really see the need to repeat that at this time in my life... :)

    guess i'll be passing this one by.

    cheers.

    Peter
  • Any suggestions on where to order it online?

    Outpost.com has been my first instinct for a year or two now. But when I went to their site to pre-order B&W, I noticed that they no longer offer their trademark free overnight shipping on all purchases. You now need to spend over a $100 to get the free shipping. Still a good deal, but not enough to make me automatically buy this at Outpost.

    Hmm. I can't even double check this since their site seems to be down. At least from where I am.

    It is interesting, because we knew all along that they would drop their free overnight shipping policy. They were losing money on every purchase. I imagine they were betting on customer loyality to keep their sales up.

    I would have been loyal -- but there was no dislaimer anywhere in the shopping process that said that the shipping would cost money. It was only after I was reading the final receipt that I noticed that suddenly $12.50 was being tacked on to my purchases to cover overnight delivery. I came very close to hitting submit and paying a total $70 for B&W at Outpost. This upset me, and now I'm looking elsewhere.

    Now the site is back up. There slogan is still "Free Delivery. Overnight". Of course, that is now only for orders over $100.

  • ZDNet's Gamespot did a great set of previews on B&W. Start here:

    Black & White [zdnet.com]

    The links to the individual articles:

    Black & White--Day Two: Hands-On, Part One [zdnet.com]
    Black & White--Day Three: Hands-On, Part Two [zdnet.com]
    Black & White--Day Four: The Creatures [zdnet.com]

    ...still lamenting the death of Gamecenter. I used to only buy games that got a 8, 9, or 10 from Gamecenter...

  • Every voice asking to have it ported adds to the developers case.

    --
  • I work in the industry.

    We're at least 10-15 years away from photorealism, quite possibly more. If you look at what the GeForce 3 can do in the XBOX, it's at least one thousand times short on polygons to let us render in real time the kinds of models that would be convincingly realistic. On the PC you're even worse off because of the bus interface.

    Likewise, there are things we could do to improve realism that would take a thousand times the memory, and the kind of AI and physics that would help to convince you that you were looking at something alive could easily chew up that many more general purpose cpu cycles.

    So if we manage to double computing power every year for 10 years we should be there. But I wouldn't bet on it for 15.

  • Re:Cruelty? (Score:4)

    by maxume ( 22995 ) on Friday March 16, 2001 @09:27PM (#358413)
    honestly though, there needs to be more moderation tags, both positive and negative, as the comment above would read much better as +1 Weird.

  • Re:Can someone please be 'Informative'... (Score:5)

    by delirium_9 ( 26055 ) on Friday March 16, 2001 @07:38PM (#358414) Homepage
    Basically Black and White is a God game. You are a God and your power is based on the amount of people who believe in you. What you do with your power is entirely up to you. You can be Good, Evil, or any combination in between.

    You also get to raise an animal to become your servant. The way you treat the animal and what you teach it will determine how it grows. Oh, and after you pick the animal that you want it grows to be Godzilla size, so it's a bit more than your average animal.

    The best thing to do is go to one of the fansites, the one that i visit is liongames.com [liongames.com]. The game has been really hyped up, but from the screenshots and previews i've read it seems to live up to it, guess we'll all find out in a couple of weeks.

  • "Back in my day, we only had 4 colors! And we were *grateful*!"

    -Cranky Kong, from _Donkey Kong Country_
  • I guess you signed the petition first and copied the link only afterwards? ;-)

    The correct direct link would be http://www.tuxgames.com/petitions/viewpetition.cgi [tuxgames.com] . Otherwise you'll sign the petition as Brian Kimmel, of Wichita, KS 67203, United States.

    Or, as suggested, go to http://www.tuxgames.com/ [tuxgames.com] and click on from there (there's a lot more of petitions going!).

  • They've already killed Origin. (Score:5)

    by Restil ( 31903 ) on Saturday March 17, 2001 @12:44AM (#358417) Homepage
    Especially the Ultima Series.

    Up through Ultima 7, the games were great. Then EA bought them out.. And what happens?

    U8 is no longer a roleplaying game, its an arcade game. Ultima Online is released with only a cosmetic similarity to the game and the concept behind the game series. Funny how a company can take a game series with a rich and powerful virtuous theme and turn it into an online game that becomes the exact opposite.

    And Ultima Ascention. Don't even talk to me about how badly they screwed THAT up.

    Origin had what it needed. A steadily growing loyal fanbase. People who knew how to design and tell a story through an interactive game environment. And most importantly, a strong leader who had been with the project since the inception.

    And now, that fanbase has been decimated, storytelling is overrated as long as the game has the best 3D graphics available today, and of course, the leader has quit after the company he guided for two decades is destroyed because someone upstairs thought that it was best to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

    And whatever happened with Sierra? I remember saving up my money as a kid and begging my parents to drive me to the computer store so I could buy a new game released by this company.
    Even after a new interface was introduced, the games didn't lose their spirit.

    But thats all gone now too. Perhaps they weren't making enough money. I don't know. Storytelling doesn't take a lot of money. It doesn't require a team of hundreds of programmers. It doesn't require movie studio equipment and it doesn't require blockbuster movie budgets.

    What it requires is a well organized team, a leader with the appropriate vision, creative people who have something to contribute, and artists who can say more with less. Once upon a time, we couldn't render 100fps realtime 3D in 32 bit color. So we had to make up in story what we couldn't convey in realism. But it was certainly more fun back then.

    -Restil
  • Maxis and Peter Molyneux. A creative company and a creative genius. Think about it, Sim City, Sim City 2k, Sim City 3k, The Sims and Populous. That's quite a list of titles. I have lost countless hours in these games. Not sure about Black and White but it looks like it might find a niche.

    EA has made some smart moves in nabbing up these smaller game companies (Maxis, Origin, etc.). Let's hope they do the right thing and let them keep doing what they do best without micromanaging them. Too many games have been screwed by the big corporation stepping in.

    I still steam about Meridian 59 being destroyed by 3D0.
  • I bought a Logitech iFeel mouse after reading about support in this game, and not there doesn't seem to be a single mention on the main page or any of the fan sites... is it time to return my mouse?

  • WebSite? (Score:3)

    by TrevorB ( 57780 ) on Friday March 16, 2001 @07:10PM (#358420) Homepage
    I remember the Black & White [bwgame.com] website being a lot more informative, with screenshots and a game description.

    Now it's got this weird celtic/native picture, and a bunch of guys chanting like it's a frat party and they're chugging beer... what gives?

    I don't even want to think what that gnome is doing under the screen...
  • EA has made some smart moves in nabbing up these smaller game companies (Maxis, Origin, etc.). Let's hope they do the right thing and let them keep doing what they do best without micromanaging them. Too many games have been screwed by the big corporation stepping in.
    That's pretty darn funny. Go to the Alpha Centauri newsgroup and see how people feel about what EA did to that game. Go read rec.games.computer.ultima.online--or go to boards.uo.com and read the UO:3D boards and see how people feel about that situation. The game is in a crappy beta state, and yet it's gone gold and will hit stores in two weeks! People with Voodoo cards are having all kinds of problems that render the game literally unplayable. EA screws us royally.
  • Someone had to say this right? Get linux, don't use windows.

    Before developers make linux games (instead of porting..) they'll have to see that it's viable to. Many linux games are ports, done later, of Windows games. MacOS seems to have more attention than Linux when it comes to games.

    Linux won't be a popular game platform until it's a popular desktop platform. Talk about a niche of a niche of a niche market.

    B&W is coming out on the PSX as well so it's not quite a Windows only game.
  • Petition isnt needed. The authors have stated they are interested in getting it ported, it's just a matter of a deal being worked out with someone.
    treke

  • I'd read that at one point that they were going to have two versions of the game: a black box and a white box. The white box would be $5 more, which went to charity.

    Loved the idea, but I've heard nothing about it since. Anyone able to confirm or deny this plan of action?

    Taken from www.eurogamer.net [eurogamer.net]:

    One interesting aspect of this which sadly didn't make the final cut was the idea of selling two versions of the game at different prices. "Originally we wanted to do a black box which was two pounds cheaper than the white box, and the white box you paid more but that went directly to charity. It's a really nice story - we'd actually arranged to set up all these webcams in African villages, so that people could watch the money from Black & White building buildings. And there was another plan after that, where either you got a voucher to send off money to charity or a Mexican lottery ticket in the black box. But again, you can understand retail - doing anything special like that is just not fun for them. It is a bit of a hassle to stock two different price points [for the same game]."

    So unfortunately not. Pity, I agree it was a marjorly cool idea, but probably would be an administrative nightmare....

  • Linux Petition (Score:5)

    by stuce ( 81089 ) on Friday March 16, 2001 @07:26PM (#358425)
    The petition to get this game ported to linux is here [tuxgames.com]

    Kind of a waste of news if we don't slashdot the petition and get to play the game ;-)

  • I don't know if anyone remembers this but there was a weird game of collecting followers back in the DOS days, and it had to do with possessing a Buddha statue.
  • It was called Shogun. You literally went around making promises to make certain people disappear or make them your friends to get followers and you had to find the guy had the Buddha. I was 10 years old when I played it. That's all I remember.

  • Re:WebSite? (Score:4)

    by Johnath ( 85825 ) on Friday March 16, 2001 @07:16PM (#358428) Homepage

    Yeah, that site kinda blows, but you can get the information and screenshots of the company's site:

    Go here [lionhead.com].

    Note, requires Shockwave. For the unshocked version,

    Go here instead [lionhead.com].

  • well the whole idea is that the game is about good vs evil. that's why the white box (ie, the "good" box) has money donated to charity, while the back box (ie the "evil" box) donates nothing. sure it's a gimmick, but at least it's a thoughtful gimmick :)

    but really, if they wanted to do it properly both would be the same price, but the white sales would still put $5 towards a charity whereas the black ones would just be an extra $5 in their pockets :)

    - j

  • Another anti-marriage game. I wonder how I'll be able to justify this one.

  • Where have all the good game makers gone?

    I think they went to Valve! Although, I'm not too sure about the new TFC models.

    --Steve

  • So? What's your point? His post is still informative and useful to the people on Slashdot who run Linux. If you don't, big whoop, I couldn't care less. Ignore the post and move on. Perhaps your new motto should be: Some Slashdot Readers Are Linux Users. Consequently, they like talking about it. If you don't, then don't join in.

    -----
    "People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them"
  • If they wanted to do it properly both would be the same price

    Instead of just one of them being the same price?

  • Do the software guys actually have the time and inclinationation towards such a wastefull past time?

    Maybe we're just more efficient, in that we don't have to waste time looking up words like passtime and wasteful. But then, obviously you don't do that either.

  • Well, someone decided to proclaim that the moderators were stupid for modding the thing to 5. For some reason, the mods actually listenned to the guy, and modded me back down. Oh well. I don't particularily care, but some people really take this site too seriously.

    I see your post got modded down, too. Why anyone would go to all the effort of spending a moderator point to mark you off-topic is beyond me. Like I said, people take this site too seriously.

    ------

  • It blows my mind that five people said to themselves...

    Actually, only three people after the +1 bonus.

    ------

  • Reminds me of a certain Chris Rock sketch (Score:3)

    by Temporal ( 96070 ) on Friday March 16, 2001 @07:16PM (#358437) Journal

    Don't you just hate it when people brag about something they're supposed to do?

    I just read that ZDNet article linked above...

    You're a Slashdot editor. You're supposed to read the god damn article! God damn editors bragging about something they're supposed to do!

    :-)

    ------

  • I read slashdot. I don't use linux. Not EVERYONE who reads slashdot uses linux. If you want I can send you some screenshots the day it hits retail shelves of me playing it on my windows 2000 machine though.
  • I meant i dumped the game after one hour and at the cost of a lot of disappointment.
    Molyneux's games are always higly awaited for their originality and often really bad on the playability area.
    I've already read reviews wich says about B&W:
    "this games, as a game is boring, but it's because it's not a game, it's a masterpiece of originality which you can't drop, not knowing why"
    well too me it looks bad. I've already been there,seen that and felt the pain.
    I will not buy the game until I've tried it really (it means: NOT a demo) because I'd really like the game to be good.
    Also they were really talking about a linux version.
    I was not trolling, just tired, it was 6am here and had no sleep.
    now i'm back to 13 and I have to kill someone for that...8-{
  • RA2 is a helluva lot better then Tiberian Sun. If RA2 *DOES* suck (I dissagree, but anyway) then it certianlydoesn't deserve to bite in all caps.
    ----
  • The PC gamer preview hints that B&W eventually be open sourced [pcgamer.co.uk]. Personally, I don't think that EA will be too happy to do this since there is so much technology tied up in the game. However, it has happened with Quake so who knows? I can't help wondering even if it were open sourced whether it will be too complicated to garner support...

    B&W is also one incredibly complicated game. In the PC Zone review [pczone.co.uk] of the game they hinted that this may lead to deluge of bugs being found. All that AI and so many different paths through the game means that testing won't find every flaw. On the other hand, I heard that extensive testing was one of the reasons for the delay in the release of the game.

  • If it's called "Black and White" why are the screenshots in full color? Don't the game developers remember that some of us still have grayscale, greenscale, or amberscale monitors?
    All your hallucinogen [pineight.com] are belong to us.

  • There was an article a while back (I've lost it now, but you could try Liongames.com [liongames.com]) where Peter Molyneux talked about this. Apparently they had to scrap the idea because it would have been too difficult to retailers to manage the product at two different price points. It's a bit of a shame really, as it would have been good to see how it worked out.

    Then again, there's nothing stopping you sending $5 to a charity of your choice when you buy the game.

  • "Basically Black and White is a God game. You are a God and your power is based on the amount of people who believe in you. What you do with your power is entirely up to you. You can be Good, Evil, or any combination in between."

    Arent all their games like this? I think it really is time they did a new game, rather than Yet Another Populous?!

  • You seem to discount that maybe 134k has simply been out of touch with virtuality for a few months, because of real-world work, and this was a much faster way to get a clue than actually doing any digging. Laziness has its place.
  • and give me a clue what Black and White is all about, and why the ASPCA will hate it?

    The web site certainly didn't seem too informative, or perhaps it's flash movie lasted longer than my attention span.
  • less incentive for companies to produce linux games... oh wait, that's not cool.

    buy linux games instead please, or we'll be stuck with windows forever.

    ________

  • SO what, I'm on Win2k and I didn't get offended by that message, if he wants people to port it to his platform, why the heck not stating it? I'd rather like seeing a post like that than 10000 All your base are belong to us :)

  • In Baulders Gate it caused the scripts to freeze and you to get stuck and have to reload.

    Doh, that is NOT a good thing.

    I want to be able to at least have the CHOICE to join the dark side. WTF is with the bad guys always trying to kill me relentlessly? Shit, sure I may be the "Chosen One" but for a few quid I'll be more then willing to give up my holy noble task and join the bad guys. And what is more, I want to be able to KEEP PLAYING after I have become an evil dude! Unlike Fallout where joining the mutants causes a negative ending right away!! Heck. I was hoping to turn into some sort of mutant creature and keep playing like that. I wanted to infiltrate the Knights of Steel (or whatever their names where) and start killing them off. I actualy AGREED with the Mutants in Fallout, err, and yet I was penalized for that. Doh.

  • The american civl liberties union? The people who faught the the CDA? I don't seem them trying ot ban anything anytime soon.

    Rate me on Picture-rate.com [picture-rate.com]
  • No reason to miss Douglas Adams. H2G2 [bbc.co.uk] is back online, he writes there occasionally.

    --

  • Interesting - this game (with its two boxes - black and white) is already released over here in Ireland. I saw it last week in the local EB.
  • I really am surprised that this sort of hype gets to the wise and all knowing slashdot people! Come on Moleux (sorry wrong spelling I bet) is a geinus hyper. I mean I was looking forward to Dungeon Keeper when it was coming. Alsorts of neat ideas and the game was just another C&C clone. Someone in a rather trustworthy paper said that B&W might be good, but don't expect too much.
  • Well they can address the cheats as they come out (which is the way it usually has to be done) or they can try to do all sorts of elaborate checks of data validity to slow down any would-be cheaters.

    For example, Counterstrike 1.1 just came out and addresses most of the cheats. Many will probably come back, but some will most likely not be possible anymore. Also, Valve fixed the speed cheat that had been plaguing all of the halflife community with a server patch.

    Of course all this won't stop people, since there will always be people who want to cheat and ruin the game for others and there will always be those who have the skills to make that possible (whether or not that is their actual intent).

  • Re:Boxes? (Score:3)

    by Echo|Fox ( 156022 ) <forums@discor[ ].ca ['dia' in gap]> on Friday March 16, 2001 @07:11PM (#358455)
    The idea was nixed because retailers were balking at having the same game with two different prices. Too bad, since that was a really cool idea.
    As far as I know, though, it will be shipping in the black and white boxes, but at the same pricepoint (like Starcraft's Terran, Zerg, and Protoss boxes) ... why? Because there are people out there who will buy them both. ;p
    Oh well, I've got my copy preordered from EB and I really don't care what color box it is... I just plan on playing a right evil bastard of a God =)

  • Re:Boxes? Rebates! (Score:3)

    by Cannelbrae ( 157237 ) on Friday March 16, 2001 @09:57PM (#358456)
    Stores didn't want to deal with the price differenes? Easy answer! The Black Box (evil) comes with a 5 dollar mail in rebate. Then, THEY can play good or evil and decide which rebates to honor! The White box has that 5 dollars to to charities. (guy who has been ripped off on too many mail in rebates)
  • Peter stated almost a year ago that he would really like to opensource the game. Slashdot covered the story here. [slashdot.org] Granted, it would be really cool if he did this, but I worry that massive cheating will destroy any fun to be had with the online play
  • DK's development is a huge soap opera wrapped up in PM's perfectionist streak. He developed a game, played it and decided it just wasn't fun, so he tanked 6-8 months of development and started over. EA came knocking at the door and told him they were taking this game and publishing it, like it or not. So the "final" version of Dungeon Keeper sucks because it wasn't done or up to par as far as PM as concerned. The fiasco over Dungeon Keeper is the reason why he left Bullfrog in the first place. B&W has taken this long to develop because he didn't want to release another game until he was sure he was done. Cut the man some slack.

  • Peter Molyneux was the creator of populous so it's no suprise.

  • Hmmm. So if a small company comes out with a game, it's good. If a EA comes out with the identical game it's bad? All of those "bad" games you mentioned are nearly identical to the ones that come before. No points for originality, but how are they bad?
  • What EA does is buy a little company that has made one or two creative games, then strings them along for as long as making unimaginative hack sequels remains profitable. EA *never* takes a risk on an "untested" game idea that isn't sure to sell like hotcakes; you will never see anything imaginative or new out of them. At EA, the marketing guys are in firm control of the game development guys, and it shows.

    Hey, they are (currently) better than Eidos. How many TR games are there?

    And EA never takes a risk? How about B&W, Sims, Majestic?

  • So basically, this is populous on 'roids.

  • the ASPCA will be protesting this game, mark my words

    Do you mean the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animations?

  • I meant i dumped the game after one hour and at the cost of a lot of disappointment. Molyneux's games are always higly awaited for their originality and often really bad on the playability area.

    I find this comment especially interesting, given that my first take on the fact that "Black and White" has gone gold is more a kudos to the people responsible for advertising and hyping the game, rather than a credit to the game itself.

    Hell, look at the people who went nuts trying to get tickets to Phantom Menance, only to find themselves subjected to a few hours of Jar-Jar Binks.

    I certainly hope I'm wrong and that there're a lot of very happy gamers out there, but I can easily imagine both very good and very bad games that fit within the hype and details I've heard about "Black & White". (And I mean that in a qualitative sense, not a moral one, so no jokes about the very bad game being the one that ships in the black box.)

    So in general, I just find it hard to get excited about a game that hasn't been released, yet. It's too easy to get burned and you really don't gain anything from the anticipation (unless you like sitting around going, "Let's see: If I save an extra 4 percent of my income, I should be able to buy the necessary extra top-of-the-line 3D cards and monitors to support the rumored Quake 5 360-degree continual view feature.").

  • SRDNELU

    Slashdot Readers Do Not Equal Linux Users.

    This has been a public service message.

  • I think more importantly, who's going to slap a Tiger about in B&W (which it lets you do) and then think "Hey, I think I'll do that in real life". I think the ASPCA would, for once, be more worried about the person than the animal in that case...
  • Heh, sadly true I guess. Now that those kind of people have tired of attacking Mortal Kombat or Carmageddon I guess they need some kind of new victim to waste their energy and time attacking.
  • what is the ASPCA and why will it have a cry? if i guess correctly its the American Society of Protection to Cruelty to Animals?

    I dont get why they will go sick over it though.,. its not like we go around kiling the animals, we use them :-).. just like creatures ;p
  • Hmm.. im wondering.. with the massive growth in online games recently, we have seen a huge increase in the number of cheats made (hacks).. There are hunderds of cheats for the most popular game Counter-Strike around, as well as lots of possible cheats for Diablo 2.

    But, this game will probably be extremerly volnerable. Reading through the material, it seems that the game is played both on the net, and on your single pc.. where you actually play the SAME game.. for example, you login, you train your critter, destroy a few villages etc.. then, you log off the net, and you can continue to train your critter and get your villagers to worship you.. You then log back on, and you still have your newly trained critter and lots of worshiping power that you got when you were offline...

    So... it seems it would be quite easy to hack.. someone could simply create a hack that gives your critter the ultimate strength and intellegience and makes all your peasents love you...

    what means do the game writers have to stop this? none that i can think of....
  • "
    Once you begin gaining in power, you can select any of the myriad beasts you see prowling the landscape to be your own pet Titan. You will magically enhance the creature, causing it to grow to gargantuan proportions, towering meters above the land and the villagers. But the beast comes to you stupid; you must teach him what to do and what not to do. This is done simply through slapping him when you want to discourage his behaviour and stroking him when you want to encourage his behaviour."
    Basically you train your "titan" by either slapping it or petting it. Here is the Newbie Guide to Black & White [slashdot.org] from thecitadel.net [thecitadel.net]. It gives the jist of the game and then some.

  • There is nothing wasteful about entertainment in proper amounts. Life is about being happy [tricycle.com] and if you aren't happy then you've got your priorities all screwed up and need to re-evaluate.

  • That's pretty funny if you're a pathetic weakling sack of human waste that finds picking on helpless animals funny.

    If there's anyone out there like that : KILL YOURSELF. Save someone a bullet.

  • I think the publisher decided against it. I can kinda see that being sort of a problem though, if some racial sensitive people took that the wrong way...
  • First off, this isn't a "Quake clone", unless you consider "Quake clone" to be "Any game that uses a polygon rendering engine".

    Secondly, the reason you see polygons (which I'll assume to mean "pointy edges") is that, surprise surprise, they have to target the game at the midrange PC, not the high-performance polygon pushers. Not everyone has a GeForce2 Ultra that can render a gazillion polygons, they have to target the average schmo with a P3-500 and a standard 16-meg D3D video card if they wanna make any money.

    That said, there's plenty of full-motion video games out there. They were really big on the Sega CD, in its heyday. But then everyone realized they sucked. Sewer Shark, anyone?

  • No that would defeat the purpose of the gimmick! The point is that you must choose between giving to charity or saving money. If you choose to save $5 you get the black, or evil box. If you choose to donate $5 you get the white, or good box. If they were both the same price, it would be an easy decision.
  • Yeah, EA bought some really good game developers (Maxis, Bullfrog, Origin, etc), but have you noticed that all the good guys left after the development house they founded got bought by EA? Peter Molyneux from Bullfrog left to found Lionhead, some other ex-bullfroggies founded Mucky Feet, Origin is by far not what it used to be, the Roberts brothers (who did Wing Commander, Privateer etc for Origin) now work for Microsoft, Garriott (founder of Origin and creator of Ultima) quit...
    The list of new small development houses spawned by geniuses leaving their recently-bought-out-by-publishing-giant teams is quite long.
    Also, have you noticed that EA tends to treat the firms it acquired like its sports division, i.e. producing sequels again and again?
    Bullfrog under Molyneux produced a lot of different, original games (think Theme park, Syndicate, Popoulus, Dungeon Keeper). Now, what have they been doing since the acquisition by EA? an uninspired sequel to Theme Park, an uninspired sequel to Dungeon Keeper,...
    I'm not saying that EA is evil; due to EAs publishing power probably a lot more people play stuff like Dungeon Keeper now, but, well, Bullfrog, Origin etc on their own focused on making cool,innovative games; EA focuses on making money from good, but quite unimaginative games.
    That's a good strategy, business-wise, but the gaming world has gotten a bit duller.
  • "the ASPCA will be protesting this game, mark my words."

    I don't think so; they haven't complained before. They didn't complain when Quake had you shooting and blowing up rottweilers or when Wolfenstein had you gunning down German shepherds. How will this be any different from those?

  • Good point. With that in mind, I wonder how Serious Sam will fare with the ASPCA.
  • If it's called "Black and White" why are the screenshots in full color? Don't the game developers remember that some of us still have grayscale, greenscale, or amberscale monitors?


    Yeah, man, it really sucks when I see a cool game, and then find out I can't play it on my 3270's green screen! :(

    RG
    ----

  • Boxes? (Score:4)

    by MWoody ( 222806 ) on Friday March 16, 2001 @07:01PM (#358480)
    I'd read that at one point that they were going to have two versions of the game: a black box and a white box. The white box would be $5 more, which went to charity.

    Loved the idea, but I've heard nothing about it since. Anyone able to confirm or deny this plan of action?
    ---
  • First of all... EA didn't buy Sierra. Cendant Corp did, along with Davidson Software, Blizzard, and Knowledge Associates. Then after Cendant's accounting scandal, they sold all of their software assets very quickly to a french company called Havas. Havas still maintains the Sierra brand. EA is involved only in North American distribution. More info on Sierra history here [sierra.com].

    Second of all... EA doesn't own Lionhead or Black & White either! Just like with Sierra, EA is only doing North American Distribution. So stop worrying about it.

    EA [ea.com] is one of several major software distributors in North America... Lots of companies use them for that as an alternative to going through Ingram Micro. [ingrammicro.com]

  • Cruelty? (Score:5)

    by bertok ( 226922 ) on Friday March 16, 2001 @08:00PM (#358484)
    I don't see any reason for the ASPCA to complain. I mean really, who here believes that the game Black and White would entice youngins around the world to commit cruelty to animals? Since when is enslaving the soul of a wild beast and feeding it with pure magic until it grows in a pathetic attempt to escape the confines and restrictions of it's natural body considered "cruelty". It's doing them a favor really. What mouse or bunny rabbit wouldn't want to tower over it's former predators, crushing them into a bloody pulp under it's hideously enlarged paws? No cruelty that I can see.
  • Why not just raise the price of all of em? Make the box black and white, instead of a black and a white box?
    "Me Ted"
  • I checked out the article on Black and White and I saw the same old lousy graphics that every Quake clone has had. That is, it isn't even close to photorealistic -- too many polygons visible. Can anyone with knowledge of the industry tell me when we can expect games with good graphics? I want it too look like full-motion video, not a game.
    ________________
  • EA ruins every company they get. Westwood ruled (Dune II, C&C). Oh look, EA buys Westwood, damn, now it BITES (C&C:RA2). Bullfrog was brilliant(Populous, Dungeon Keeper). Oh look, EA buys Bullfrog, now it SUCKS (DK2).

    I'm only hoping Lionhead can get off one great game before EA ruins it as well, with its lowest common denominator marketing style. B&W is the only comp game I intend to spend any money on this year... I was thinking on WC III, but after Blizz's recent actions and the suckiness of D2, I'm done with Blizzard. Not to mention WC III appears to be heading the wrong way (away from massive tactical epic warfare, towards small parties of warriors necessitated by each one being rendered like a Q3a bot). id's DOOM III is all set to be the biggest joke of a game in years. So it looks like we're all riding on Peter Molyneaux to strike creative gold again, either that or the Miller brothers can come out of the woodwork with another Myst clone. Other than that, I see very little of interest on offer this year.

    Yawn...

    Where have all the good game makers gone?

    -Kasreyn
  • "I don't see any reason for the ASPCA to complain. I mean really, who here believes that the game Black and White would entice youngins around the world to commit cruelty to animals?"

    ...the same people who think digital images of fake child porn will entice pedophiles and thus should be illegal.

    Oh, you meant that rhetorically? Either way, expect to see the game banned in places if the ACLU ever takes a look at it.

    -Kasreyn
  • It's a new god sim, but everyone expects god sims from Molyneaux, that's his expertise... what makes B&W unique is your CHOICE.

    In Populous, you were sometimes vengeful, but usually just power-oriented. Not really good or evil.

    In the Dungeon Keeper games, you were very clearly focussed on pure, diabolical Evil. All the way.

    B&W is cool because you can choose which path to walk... Good, Evil, or really anything in between as far as I've been able to figure out. This alone should more than double the replay value, as you take tactics in Good and see how they work in Evil. IE., how effective might a certain grand strategy be when applied by force and terror, or with caring and peace? Fascinating, Captain.

    -Kasreyn
  • "No points for originality, but how are they bad?"

    Heheh, answered your own question.

    What EA does is buy a little company that has made one or two creative games, then strings them along for as long as making unimaginative hack sequels remains profitable. EA *never* takes a risk on an "untested" game idea that isn't sure to sell like hotcakes; you will never see anything imaginative or new out of them. At EA, the marketing guys are in firm control of the game development guys, and it shows.

    And I for one am VERY tired of same-old, same-old. My comp. game collection has grown to the range of over 70 titles. It will take something new and/or imaginative to make me open my wallet for a whole 50 bucks. I'm certainly not paying 50 bucks for a slick EA clone of a game I already have. C&C:RA2, DK2, and Diablo 2 (though EA doesn't own Blizz yet) were all so terrible, it's completely turned me off sequels.

    It's up to the Peter Molyneux's and Sid Meiers of the world to think up something NEW for us. We need a creative mind, unhindered by questions of whether a game is a tried and tested big seller, to come up with something worth playing. Instead we have John Romero sitting back and brainstorming: Gamers want remakes! Nope, sorry, John. Go away.

    -Kasreyn

    P.S. If you don't think C&C:RA2 bites hard enough to bite in allcaps, play through the single player campaigns and watch the cut movies. Then watch them again. Keep a barf bag close at hand.
  • Better the ASPCA than those deran9ed Scientologist. Better yet, who's gonna search for the patent on the role-playing of god and sue?

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