Ion Storm Reorganizes 112
An Anonymous Coward writes: "GameSpyDaily is reporting that both John Romero and Tom Hall are leaving Ion Storm. Most of the Dallas office has been laid off as well. Warren Spector is now in charge. The remains of Ion Storm in Austin are still working on Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3."
Re:Their? (Score:2)
Too typos? Okay, we cam still deal with that.
Thre? Okay, no wwe are getting a oittle out of hand.
In the same word?? Oh my goffnesa!
Their? (Score:3)
hmm (Score:4)
Rise of the Triad 2 (Score:1)
Re:If this means... (Score:2)
I'd argue that Doom did well because it was just plain fun. Isn't that the reason most people play games?
Sigh. Too many people worry about how high a framerate a game can achieve, or how detailed an explosion is, or how many gallons of virtual blood spill out of a freshly-dead enemy soldier. Why can't most game designers make games that are just fun?
A little bit more of the story... (Score:2)
So what's next? Dunno, but there is the matter of those domain name registrations [shacknews.com]. I'm just guessing here, but I'm thinking Monkey Stone would be Tom's choice. I hear primates are the in thing for developer names these days anyhow...
Good luck, guys.
Re:Saw this coming.. (Score:2)
Re:Primates (Score:2)
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:2)
Dear God, no. Despite that they moved into perhaps the nicest office in Dallas (and you can see for miles and miles up there since everything's so flat), it's still Dallas. More power to everyone who likes living in Dallas, and it may just be because I'm from California, but I never cared for the place. It probably didn't help that I got there in August during a 98%-humidity heat wave. Bad first impression. But the city also didn't seem that friendly, interesting or active to me.
Not having been in Texas before, I thought it might be nice to hop over to Austin for a day on the weekend. Then I checked the scale on the map -- doh! Let's just say it's more than a hop away...
Er... (Score:1)
Go Warren! Can't wait for DX2 and T3!
ION Dallas Served It's Purpose. (Score:2)
If they were looking to make ION Dallas last longer, then perhaps they shouldn't have sold out to Eidos.
They way I see it, it's all perfectly logical. Too bad they have to ditch the really nice office though...apparently the Dallas offices were pretty high-class, perhaps a bit too much so. Oh well.
-Julius X
Iron Storm (Score:2)
until I scrolled down a bit and found the actual Ion Storm item [gamespydaily.com]...
Bet the Iron Storm guys are getting a few more hits than they expected today...
Re:Their? (Score:4)
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:1)
Ok, now that's overdoing it a bit, don't you think? To tell the truth, the whole post sounds like a page from the troll handbook. Then again, I am often wrong. But I am a bit curious as to what
Open-Source/Free Software roots that gave birth to the gaming community
maybe you were serious, but I doubt it. Had me going for a sec, with the whole low UID and all
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:1)
And as far as who used what at the university in the last decade, well, I remember using vC++ most recently turbo c before that, and then before that, whatever was on the vax. most people over the last 2 decades that used a unix c compiler at university used cc, not just gcc. And they used it on solaris, etc. And no that is not the exception. I can say that after personally attending 2 different school hundred of miles apart(and working at 2 more), that used different systems, and who would have until recently all given you a blank stare if you had asked about gcc. Remember though that your personal experience is no guide to what has happened to others. On the other hand I can't think of one person thatI have ever talked to about the scool that they went too, who used gnu tools. I usually have to explain to the professors here why I am using it (lack of winXX at home, for the curious).
Oh and the game community does not come from this decade anyway. John Carmack started on a Apple][, as I recall, and he is certainly not the first programmer to write a game. He is, on the other hand, my personal god.
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:1)
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:2)
Lived in Dallas for almost 20 years...can't wait to graduate college and move to, well, Alaska or somewhere. Somewhere with a WINTER.
-another transplanted Californian
Re:Theif: The Game that Daikatana Killed... (Score:1)
[Not that I moderated the comment you're replying to, but:]
To quote Homer Simpson, "It's funny because it's true."
BTW, what is it with no-one being able to spell Thief properly?
Re:You're just remembering the halcyon days of you (Score:1)
I do enjoy modern games, but the existence of newer games doesn't mean the older games suddenly suck - it only means the technology that drives them isn't as impressive. If all you care about is cool graphics, then don't bother with older games - I'm certainly not going to argue with you. But I'm more impressed by good design, and without glitzy graphics, good design was the only thing that made the "classics" classic.
Rumors from FatBabies (Score:3)
Apparently Romero and Hall are keeping a few people on payroll while they try to build a new company. There was also a rumor that Romero was talking to Eidos about buying the rights to the Ion Storm name back from them. (presumably to use for his new company)
Ion Storm Austin has always been it's own autonomous unit so I dont think this will hurt them at all.
Darth -- Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
Re:If this means... (Score:2)
been a long time coming... (Score:5)
After the sheer number of horrors that came out of there - both PR and game - I'd expected Romero's time to be limited. Daikatana was, I think, just the final blow. Most of their games were either fatally flawed or just out of date.
The only think you can really say is:
Reality just made John Romero its Bitch.
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Re:Garage era games. (Score:2)
------------------------
OT: What're the " is Romero's bitch" lines? (Score:2)
Almost all of the top-rated articles as I write this contain some kind of joke about such-and-such being made John Romero's bitch, or vice-versa. I guess I missed something somewhere, would some kind soul fill me in?
Thanks.
Re:If this means... (Score:1)
You can pinpoint the moment (Score:1)
Re:Multiplayer is NOT required (Score:1)
LOL - When you assume, you make an ASS out of you and me.
I've been playing shooters for the past FIVE years. Doom / Quake / Half-Life / UT / Serious Sam. I *think* I know what a shooter is.
> Deus Ex is not a SIM...it's a FPS with role-playing elements much like
Excuse the french, but "no SHIT sherlock."
That is precisely why it is a such a good game: Warren Spector has taken 2 genres (FPS and RPG) and combined them in a novel way. (Aside: Majesty did the same with the SIM & RTS genres. I'd like to see more cross-genre pollination in games
Obviously let me spell the point out for you, since you missed it: "MULTIPLAYER is NOT a requirement for games to achieve X". Where X can be a) Sales, b) Fun.
Yes, most of the examples I provided were not FPSs. I *did* mention Thief, which is a shooter so I'm not sure why you're assuming why I don't have a clue about shooters.
You're point about shooters that don't have multiplayer support are "doomed", is noted however, and I agree. It is *very* risky* to sell a game without multiplayer support these days. (i.e. potentially cutting out a BIG section of the market.)
*Risky but not stupid. If you look at the sales numbers for Age of Empires 2, and Mech Warrior 4, compared to how many people are playing them online, you find a FAR greater number of people playing them SINGLE PLAYER.
(Sorry for the flame, but I hate people that know jack-shit about me, and then claim I know nothing in a topic just because I was quiet.)
gaming industry is a BIG risk (Score:2)
> This is a troll, right?
Why are you wrongly accusing the parent of being a troll?!
The gaming industry has ALLWAYS been a risky industry. Don't take my word, but ask other game developers. They will tell you the same thing:
If a "sequel"/clone doesn't offer enough new features people won't buy it. If it diverges too far with new ground, it also won't sell well.
i.e.
- Look at the shooters. Same old game ( & still lots of fun!) but it is STILL the same old "game"
- Look at hack-n-slashers. Diablo 2 and EQ offer nothing "new" -- they are both the standard hack-n-slashers. (Lots of fun multiplayer, but REPETITIVE/same-old gameplay)
The game industry is partly about marketing. There is a reason why Diablo 2 has sold over a million copies. Blizzard was hyping their game for a FULL year before Diablo 2 was out. If a game developer can't afford marketing, then they will have a MUCH harder time "making it big" (Exceptions being a developer with a proven track record and everyone buys their stuff regardless *cough Quake 3 cough*
Cheers
My Apple ][ hall of fame games (Score:2)
Get a Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3D joystick - only 8 buttons -- all you need for multiplayer
> Oh well. I'll just pull out my Apple ][ I guess.
Hear, Hear !
My favorite Apple ][ games (Using * to designate ones that I still love playing)
* Rescue Raiders (Armor Alley on the PC sucked)
* Aquatron
* Wings of Fury
* Gemstone Warrior
- Goonies
* Lode Runner (& Championship LR)
- Ultima Series (1 - 5)
- Lady Tut
- Karetaka (Had just as much fun ripping the music hehe)
- Bruce Lee
Thx god for ApplePC [google.com] ! (It even has mockingboard support!)
P.S.
Feel free to add your own to the list !
Re:So, my original point still stands... Uhm, no. (Score:2)
Thief (it's successful enough that they are doing the 3rd version
> But when it comes to running around with a first-person viewpoint and shooting the crap out of people -- AI sucks.
I wholeheartly agree. The "ultimate" AI is/are people. CTF bots are probably the best examples of this. "Simple" rules for CTF, but bots suck @$$.
> That's why I was so disappointed that it took them a freakin' year to add multi-player support. That indicated to me that they hadn't even thought multi-player through until after the game was released...
If you read the post-mortum article in Game Developers (online at Gamasutra [gamasutra.com] ), it says: "We wanted to provide multiplayer support but didn't have the time to do the job we knew we needed to do, and so it got cut."
If you knew Warren Spector, he's a bit of "perfectionist." He's not one to just "add X into the game" if he feels it's not working. Multiplayer is NOT something you jsut "drop" into a game. Gameplay must be designed / changed to accomodate it. Witness all the "balancing" Unreal went through on it's transition to UT. Same with Q3 & Q3A. Secondly, shipping a game ON SCHEDULE is more important then "wish-list features".
As a game developer, I can tell you, that when a game is designed, multiplayer is not just some checklist on the list of feature, but usually thought more in terms "does multiplayer even 'work' in the confines of the game rules. e.g. Does the meta-game support multiplayer?" (Usually the publisher is the one thinking: add multiplayer so we can get more $ale$ )
> and in this day and age, that (in my mind) is unconscionable.
Obviously multiplayer support is important to a LOT of players (FPS crowd), but you have to stop jumping to the conclusion that "FPS w/o multiplayer = sucks & won't sell." (We have Deus Ex and Thief as examples)
Let me expand what I mean.
There are elements of a single-player game that just CAN'T be experienced multiplayer.
For one thing, in a single player game, the control of time. i.e. Something as basic as savegames, and pausing.
Also in single player games, the game designer has better control of the plot/story, and can immerse the player in it, MUCH better then any multiplayer version.
e.g. *You* can be the hero. Having N "heros" running around, is a b!tch to design and give everyong a rewarding experience. This is currently one of the "unsolved" problems of massive gaming.
Deus Ex is partly an RPG. Multiplayer isn't a "perfect" fit like the Deathmatch-only designed games (Q3/UT) and hence it doesn't "loose" much w/o multiplayer.
I mentioned Max Payne at the top, and the developers are basically saying the same thing.
e.g. The Max Payne interview [google.com]
I think you need to look at ALL the evidence: Where have games been, what is being made, what "problems" do FPS still have, etc, and you'll come to the conclusion:
Single-player FPS's are NOT dead.
Cheers
Multiplayer is NOT required (Score:3)
Talk about deadly combinations!
Neither do The Sims, Roller Coaster Tycoon, and Simcity 3K. All sold REALLY well. So much for no multiplayer being a deadly "un-feature"
> If it has no multi-player capability, then it's gotta' have a longer, more difficult storyline that takes weeks of gameplay to finish (Thief at least did the latter).
Not true. Sim's typically don't have ANY storyline at all. Don't be so quick to lamblast a game just because it has no multiplayer. Sometimes it DOES NOT make much sense for the game - in this case the Sim genre.
Cheers
Re:Ion Storm bashing... Save it for 2018... (Score:1)
Ion Storm bashing... Save it for 2018... (Score:5)
If only Ion Storm had released a 3d shooter called "Storming Ion Storm", in which you play an opinionated geek running around a virtual community armed with an obnoxiously deadly penchant for regurgitating old jokes about Daikatana, they might have had a grassroots hit on their hands.
Clearly, there are already legions of players here.
FWIW, I'd prefer not to play that game. It was fun two years ago maybe. And maybe it'll come back on a wave of retro-nostalgia when today's
It'll be at a 10x10 booth at PC Expo, the Linux "Woulda Coulda Shoulda" gathering. Two dozen middle-aged dorks sitting around bashing Microsoft and AOL/Time Warner (their booths occupying 95% of the entire tradefloor). Then the subject of crappy games will come up, because X-Box Ultra is the only gaming system around. Then invariably, with the sense of nostalgia for the halcyon days causing all sorts of synaptic activity, someone will say, "You know who used to really SUCK?" - "Jon Katz?" - "No, even more than Katz..." - "Who?" - "Ion Storm!"
A burst of chuckles. Then someone shouts "First Post!", causing everyone else to await his comment.
"Hah- turns out KillCreek made John Romero HER bitch!"
Laughter. One person comments, "Funny +1". Another repeats it. Another. Then someone else says, "Overrated -1". More laughter. Some high fives.
Life will go on, even for those who, while living, do not have a life.
Re:gaming industry (Score:4)
IMHO, Eidos should have shitcanned Dallas two years ago. They would have saved themselves in the vicinity of $10m.
Here's a test for future Eidos executives...
When a title is years behind schedule, you're haemorrhaging staff, and company email indicates a subsidiary is screwing you, do you;
A) Cut the developers loose, or
B) Firehose more money on them in the hope that "Design is Law" and that you don't really need those whiny engineers to create a game. All you need is a "Gaming God" with a rockstar attitude.
To misquote Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back; Fuck Ion Storm Dallas, fuck them in their stupid asses.
If this means... (Score:2)
Hope that Thief and Deus Ex aren't killed or severely mangled. That'd be a shame.
So...if they're leaving, are they starting another company then? Or heading off on something else entirely?
We all know what happened last time Romero started his own studios...*gag*
Re:If this means... (Score:2)
Personally, although DOOM was a great game in its time, I never thought much of any of the original id crew or the game design. The concept is extremely simple-minded (and conitnues to be) and it did well because of (Carmack's) execution.
Btw: is it just me or can nobody among these early posters spell Thief correctly?
Here's one you can actually read (Score:3)
Thursday, 7/19/2001
Romero, Hall gone
Warrior | 12:50 | GameSpy News 13 Comments
GameSpy has learned from Eidos that John Romero and Tom Hall have left Ion Storm Dallas.
In a statement released to GameSpy, Eidos said:
"John Romero and Tom Hall have decided to depart ION Storm to pursue other interests. We wish them luck in their future endeavors and thank them for their contribution to Ion Storm over the years, without which we would never have put together such talented teams in both our Austin and Dallas offices. Ion Storm will continue as a wholly owned subsidiary of Eidos and work on the sequels to the awarding winning Thief and Deus Ex titles as well as Deus Ex for the PS2."
Everyone at the Dallas office received a pink slip on Friday and that only a few administration and MIS personnel are left there to close down the office, said a former employee who was part of the layoff.
Eidos would not confirm that the Dallas staff was gone, but said they were waiting to on the sales figures for Anachronox.
Ion Storm Austin was not affected, but Warren Spector will now become head of the Ion Storm subsidiary. The Austin office is looking at changing its name from Ion Storm, but a new name has not yet been chosen.
"Though we went through some turbulent times, our relationship with ION was *super* beneficial at times," said Harvey Smith, who is heading up the Deus Ex 2 team at Ion Storm Austin. "ION gave Warren a place to start building up the earliest version of this studio. (Which is now working on Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3.) Without the initial support of ION Storm, who knows whether we would have been able to create Deus Ex. There were some great people there at the Dallas studio, with lots of passion, and I wish them all the best. The game industry ebbs and flows - heroes today are villains tomorrow, and vice versa."
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:3)
Okay, what actually happened is back in spring of 1997 Looking Glass wasn't doing too hot financially. In May of 1997 I moved from Cambridge, MA (where Looking Glass was located) to Austin to work on a game called Junction Point. Well, imagine my surprise when Looking Glass shut our office down on July 1st. Okay, it wasn't really too surprising. :) They didn't want to do it, but it was either shut down our office and continue to make payroll up in Cambridge, or shut the whole thing down.
A core group of six people stayed together, receiving no salary, and worked on various project ideas and shopped them around (well, Warren shopped them around.) Eventually a deal was struck with Ion Storm to create an Ion Storm Austin office, as none of us wanted to move to Dallas (can you blame us?) We became Ion Storm Austin on September 1, 1997.
The six people who started the office were Albert Yarusso (myself - programmer), Chris Norden (programmer), Steve Powers (designer), Dave Beyer (designer), Kraig Count (artist), and of course Warren Spector. Of those, Steve and Warren are the only full-time employees still with ISA. Chris and I are working as contractors on Deus Ex for the Playstation 2.
Re:Garage era games. (Score:1)
Seriously - I marvel at modern games - they are just a heartbeat from reality in a lot of cases. HOWEVER, this doesn't make them BETTER in many cases.
And no, I will not be forced to adapt to EVERY change that technology flings at me. I CAN adapt, but I also have the freedom to choose what I WANT to adapt to, and ultimatly that makes me a better person.
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Garage era games. (Score:4)
Yeah, I like the more simple, more FUN to play games. Who needs 15 buttons on a joy stick or a WHOLE keyboard (mech warrior 4) to play a damn game!
Oh well. I'll just pull out my Apple ][ I guess.
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Re:Multiplayer is NOT required -- agreed! (Score:1)
Saw this coming.. (Score:2)
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:1)
Re:Hmmm...except (Score:1)
A couple of comments... (Score:2)
I think it should be noted that your comment really only applies to the games that make it to the shelves. There are a TON of fun games out there, that happen to have the same gameplay level as some of the old C64, Apple II, etc. games. Go hit VideoGameDownloads.com [videogamedownloads.com] sometime and take a look around - not every game is done in 3D, and quite a few a good games with solid gameplay (however, separating the wheat from the chaff is a problem sometimes.) Yeah, I know - these aren't games offered on the shelves. But ya know - you can complain all you want about what's on the shelves, but you can't compain there aren't good games out there - there are.
And the situation is only getting better. Brian Hook, IIRC, is now changing his focus on develoment. Instead of trying to make the next multi-player extraviganza in 3D or money munching MMORPG, he's going after the classic games. (Of course, he's also refocusing what platform he's working on - Mac.) MidnightRyder.Com [midnightryder.com] (that would be my company ;-) is resurecting old gameplay in the form of Jumpman: 2049 and Trajectory (think Scorched Earth, but a bit more modern.) Trajectory may see shelves, but, Jumpman: 2049 probably never will, dispite the fact that IMHO it's going to have considerably more depth of play and actual play time than a good 3/4th of the stuff on the shelves these days.
As for the actual substance of modern games - well, I'll avoid the normal flame war that starts with these particular discussions ;-) But - it's definitly a case of to each his own. I don't mind all the glitz - I love UT, for instance. But I also can't set down and enjoy it nearly as much as some of the stuff I did back in the C64 era. That's just me.
Re:this long? (Score:2)
Romero was one of the biggest drags any company could have had. The corporate infighting and backstabbing amongst the top executives at Ion Storm was appalling, and led to multiple programmer walkouts. Meanwhile, the fighting executives continually siphoned profits that didn't exist yet for lavish personal expenses. It was one of the worst cases of management I've ever seen. Its amazing that they didn't have the plug pulled on them.
Amazingly, the projects that weren't micromanaged by upper management did very well... gee, I wonder how that happened...
-= rei =-
Re:Garage era games. (Score:1)
gaming industry (Score:1)
Re:OT: What're the " is Romero's bitch" lines? (Score:2)
Quite the PR failure, and actually admitted to be a mistake by Romero himself. Obvioulsy something else started "sucking," like sales.
Any words from Carmack? (Score:1)
Re:What becomes of Anachronox? (Score:1)
Thanks to Ion Storm Dallas's final folding (and subsequent overdue removal of two employees who shall remain nameless here), tech support for Anox 1 is all but B4NX0R3D.
***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START***
***TRANSPORT WHEN READY***
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:1)
But what he does have (and this is more important IMO), is a consistant track record of awesome games. Has Spector ever produced anything average, I wonder?
***JUMP PAD ACTIVATION INITIATION START***
***TRANSPORT WHEN READY***
hahahaha! daikatana!! (Score:3)
...and then I start crying after I remember what happened to Looking Glass Studios.
For those of you who don't know, after releasing the successful (and brilliant) Thief: The Dark Project and Thief II, Looking Glass Studios was denied funding by the publisher so that Ion Storm could continue working on Daikatana.
Looking Glass Studios closed its doors, and Ion Storm kept on keepin' on.
I totally agree with you that it's about time Romero got what was coming to him, but before that happened, a lot of innocent bystanders were hurt.
Re:ION Dallas Served It's Purpose. (Score:1)
God, that would have been a cool job.
Re:Garage era games. (Score:1)
To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:5)
Deus Ex is one of the most involved first-person I've ever experienced. To me, it set a new standard for what a first-person game should be. It didn't assume that the player was mentally retarded in terms of storyline, nor did it need to be sprinkled here and there with toilet humour/strippers to remain interesting.
If "Warren Spector," creator of Deus Ex, System Shock, Ultima Underworld, Thief -- a consistently GOOD game designer is considered a remnant of a company, then I'd love to see the state of a full-fledged gaming company.
Re:ION Dallas Served It's Purpose. (Score:1)
- Cool hole in the building [wanadoo.nl]
- Another view [wanadoo.nl]
It wasnt't all that swank. Of course, if you're from Texas (and esp. Dallas) it doesn't take much to impress you. The tower is on the northern end of the downtown district so if you needed to get to anywhere else downtown it wasn't close. IMO its best feature was how easy it was to give directions to it: As you approach Dallas, look for the building with the hole in it. Can't miss it!BRBR> There is some nice office space surrounding the keyhole, but AFAIK there is no penthouse. Also, downtown Dallas closes up tighter than a clam's ass at 9 PM so there's virtually nothing to do at night. If you work late you have to travel some miles to find nightlife. Unless you consider the over-hyped tourist district "entertainment".Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:1)
Mr.Spector wrote some books that he has mentioned that were subpar.
A quick search on amazon will give you a list of what he's written (lameness filter won't let me put a link, but the URL: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-u
Disclaimer:
I haven't read any of these, so I dunno if any of them are excellent or subpar, but in interviews, he's mentioned that he hated them....
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Re:Looking Glass 2 (Score:1)
Hey.... its worth a shot....
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Re:Looking Glass 2 (Score:1)
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Looking Glass 2 (Score:2)
Everything outta IonStorm will mean it has a great plot, and incredible gameplay, not to mention a good RPG element!
My only question is why not change the name to "Looking Glass Studios"? After the major breaking of Looking Glass, Warren hired most of the employees. Its almost like a reincarnation!
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Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:1)
U:UW was well before Doom. That's a damn nice engine. IMHO, better than Doom's
Re:this long? (Score:1)
Re:Garage era games. (Score:1)
I digress; The real hope is to find developers that can make visually stunning and technologically advances games that portray reality, but at the same time can instill a sense of nostalgia for the future of gaming. A game that can entice the minds and entertain the masses by its gameplay and originality alone; but still keep up with technology and be realistically stunning (or unrealistically stunning, depending on your genre). This is the holy grail for most developers. Many are satisfied with making money churning out games that aren't inspiration but get them a paycheck regularly, and never aspire for more. The majority I believe (and their producers no doubt) want to create a game that meets everyone's desires.. not only for the money but for the venue of success.
Re:Interesting... (Score:1)
Interesting... (Score:2)
Romero, take a hint and go join some video gaming subculture and keep out of the mainstream attention: anything so far you seem to have helped to manage has turned into crap, and fallen apart.
WWOMMS? (Score:1)
Something a lot more funny that I can come up with to be sure.
---Romero, try not to be such a goddamn fruit!---
Hmmm...except (Score:1)
- It took about three days to beat it
- It had no multi-player support for about a year
Talk about deadly combinations! If the game is eminently easy to beat, then it has to have multi-player capability to provide any value. If it has no multi-player capability, then it's gotta' have a longer, more difficult storyline that takes weeks of gameplay to finish (Thief at least did the latter).Anybody who releases a FPS like Deus Ex with no multi-player support in this day and age is mentally deficient and can be safely referred to as "The Remains." I am not alone in the sentiment that $50 is a bit much to pay for a game with less than week of playability...tons of people never bought it because all they had to do was borrow it from a friend who was already done with it.
Not that John Romero was making things any better with his lame Daikatana piece of crap...
Re:Multiplayer is NOT required (Score:1)
Anybody who releases a FPS like Deus Ex with no multi-player support in this day and age is mentally deficient
Do you know what an FPS is? Obviously you don't play them...Deus Ex is not a SIM...it's a FPS with role-playing elements much like - Oni or Half Life. You will note that Half Life was everybody's Game of the Year when it came out and continues to make tons of cash due to the plethora of mods (Counterstrike, etc.) that have been written to use its multi-player gaming engine. The same is true of Unreal Tournament and it's excellent engine. Oni, on the other hand, bombed despite its innovative combat system and fantastic graphics because...say it with me now...It has no multi-player support.
Perhaps you should figure out what the difference between a sim, an FPS and a role-playing game is before you say anything else...
So, my original point still stands... (Score:1)
and...
Anybody who releases a FPS like Deus Ex with no multi-player support in this day and age is mentally deficient and can be safely referred to as "The Remains."
I challenge you to identify a single FPS made in the last three years that has been hugely successful (financially - I don't really care whether you liked it or not) without multi-player capability. You say you are a big player of FPS games...then why do you keep giving me the following examples?
The Sims, Roller Coaster Tycoon, and Simcity 3K, Age of Empires 2.
The only game you supplied that is even somewhat an FPS is Mech Warrior 4, and that is somewhat unique in that it had a strong customer base from earlier, single player only versions. Hey, I like a good strategy or sim game as much as the next guy, and to be frank with you, I have never played any of them multi-player. You're right -- they are generally much better as stand alones.
But when it comes to running around with a first-person viewpoint and shooting the crap out of people -- AI sucks. Bots make lousy opponents because they are predictable in their behavior. The only way to make them worthy opponents is to beef them up with impenetrable armor, blazing rates of fire, and extra damage weapons. That's why there is no substitute for a human opponent who hides in a dark corner behind some boxes and hits you with a burst of fire when you run buy him. I LOVED Deus Ex...for three days. That's why I was so disappointed that it took them a freakin' year to add multi-player support. That indicated to me that they hadn't even thought multi-player through until after the game was released...and in this day and age, that (in my mind) is unconscionable.
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:1)
While Thief 3 will be an excellent game, it's adherence to closed-source, proprietary API's like ActiveX and OpenGL threaten the fundamental freedoms that we enjoy as programmers and citizens.
Not only do these proprietary technologies violate the core tenets of liberty, they make it difficult to port the game to platforms other than Win32.
Implementing a game such as Thief 3 using Free GPL'd APIs would be a statement against tyrannany and a big boost to the software for freedom movement. As an added side-effect, Open API's would allow the open-source community to port Thief or any game to platforms as diverse as S/390 and Palm devices.
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:2)
I don't know about you, but everyone I know who learned C/C++ in a university in the last decade used gcc & emacs. Maybe some probally use Sun or Microsoft tools, but I think that they are the exceptions.
Most game programmers, especially those in 3d games need solid grasp on advanced mathematics. The math community is very similar to the open-source community in terms of collaboration.
Re:To call it "The Remains" is a bit biased (Score:3)
Wouldn't a GPL'd API prevent them from releasing Thief 3 as commercial software? I'm all for open APIs (such as with Allegro or OpenGL), but since you're generally linking code when you use an API, it would seem that the "infect other software" clause of the GPL would come into play.
It may be that I'm misunderstanding the relation of APIs to the GPL. Since it's my understanding that "API" refers to the definition of functions to call, rather than the functions themselves, a GPL'd API for an LGPL'd (or BSD-licensed or public-domain or...) library might be kosher. However, there's at least an issue there that would need clarification.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that major libraries and languages should seriously consider using more commercial friendly licenses, as a means of actually promoting free software. If a commercial entity is capable of using your tool to produce commercial software, but at the same times sends back any changes to your side of the fence, you both win. The FSF party line, which I understand to be, "If they can't get it elsewhere, use the GPL instead of the LGPL so it gives them incentive to make it a GPL'd project." just doesn't work in the case where the company already feels the resulting software must be non-GPL'd.
Re:Garage era games. (Score:1)
Re:Theif: The Game that Daikatana Killed... (Score:2)
May Thief 3 rock.
Funny thing is... (Score:1)
Regardless, i still think daikatana was an excellent multiplayer game.
Re:Interesting... (Score:1)
You're forgetting that Romero was singlehandedly responsible for the LEGENDARY gameplay of quake 1.
Re:Interesting... (Score:1)
John Romero was 99% responsible for the gameplay for Quake 1. Romero actually PLAYED the game during development and would go back and forth between the game and Carmack and request changes to the gameplay. Carmack only did the tech. The reason there was a rift between the two was because in the differences in style: Carmack put tech before gameplay and Romero put gameplay before tech.
In a ways they both failed: Just look at how dull Quake 2 and 3 are gameplaywise.
Put your money where your mouth is, thanks!
Not as much a reorganization as it is.... (Score:1)
Lack of Creativity (Score:1)
Re:What becomes of Anachronox? (Score:1)
Buying anything is a risk as far as support goes. If that product is unpopular then there is no financial reason to support it.
And were things better in the old days? The gaming industry has always worked this way, and in the old days you never had companies like Id or Epic that put out dozens of patches to fix issues 3 or 4 years after the game was released.
Re:hahahaha! daikatana!! (Score:1)
Re:Theif: The Game that Daikatana Killed... (Score:1)
Re:What becomes of Anachronox? (Score:1)
What becomes of Anachronox? (Score:2)
Even though Daikatana became the albatross around Ion Storm's neck, Anachronox ended up being a pretty good experiment. Problem is, it's only half of the story -- it ends where Part Two should technically begin.
Would it be possible for the reorganization to lead to Tom Hall being able to develop Anox 2, much in the way the Thief team reformed to develop Thief 3? Or will Eidos dump the franchise / hire some hacks other than TH to finish it in a bastardized way? (See also: Space Quest, and to a lesser extent, Monkey Island.)
It's really a shame that the gaming industry has developed into a Here Today, Gone Tomorrow mindset. For simple FPS shooters that's fine and dandy but for story-driven games like Undying, Thief, Half-Life, Deus Ex and Anachronox, it can end up killing off great concepts before they have a chance to fully develop.
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Re:gaming industry (Score:2)
This is a troll, right?
Re:Garage era games. (Score:2)
There are also a lot of low-production-value, simple, fun games for consoles - not done by two guys in their garage, but with a definite substance-over-style design ethic. Try Bangaioh on the DC or Kuru Kuru Kururin on the GBA to see what I mean.
Re:gaming industry is a BIG risk (Score:2)
Consider the story in question: The guy responsible for the absolute turd of a game (which sold very badly) leaves, the guy responsible for the ground-breaking game (which sold a bucketload) takes over the top spot. This is an absolutely terrible illustration of how 'risky' the industry is, it's rather a great illustration of how things would work in an ideal world.
Re:Primates (Score:1)
It's called the Guybrush Threepwood effect. ;-)
Good Move! (Score:5)
Amen. Thank for you saying this.
I wonder how Spector feels about this...remember that Ion Storm's parent company is Eidos. And it was Eidos who wasn't able to give Looking Glass Studios the short-term cash to keep them from going belly-up because they were throwing it down the throat of Romero and Ion Storm. And now Spector is heading Ion. The mind boggles...
This is so ironic.
I think that this is a great move on the part of Romero and Hall because assuming that they want to keep working in the gaming industry, they need to start fresh. They tarnished the Ion Storm name because of Daikatana and are going in the right direction if they want to be taken seriously again. Also, they are showing some wisdom by giving a genius like Spector the helm of a development house that already is blooded and has some momentum. Perhaps they are doing this to 'apologise' to Spector for being indirectly responsible for the demise of LGS, which was, IMHO, the most innovative game production house ever. Period.
And about Warren Spector... I'm literally grinning ear to ear about having him at the helm of a production house again! It should be interesting to see if he can turn Ion Storm into another Looking Glass Studios.
Theif: The Game that Daikatana Killed... (Score:5)
Programmer 2: Like Unreal? It has it's advantages, but -- Damn, this cardboard box isn't very warm, is it?
Programmer 1: You can usually get coats from the Catholic mission. At any rate, I think we can overcome the problems that an unlimited map will create by using this special algorithm.
Programmer 2: It'd be easier to see if it wasn't written on the sidewalk.
Programmer 1: Yeah, I know. It's been a while since I managed to scrounge up any paper.
Programmer 3: Buggrit! I tol' em! Millenium-hand and shrimp....
Re: (Score:2)
Whoops (Score:1)
Re:Looking Glass 2 (Score:1)
Chris Carollo (Lead Programmer, DX2)
Alex Duran (Programmer, DX2)
Randy Smith (Project Director, T3)
Lulu Lamer (Associate Producer, T3)
Terri Brosius (Writer, T3)
Matt Baer (Programmer, DX2) had also previously worked at LG, as had Bill Money (Associate Producer, DX2).
But he hardly hired "most of the empolyees". ISA (or whatever we end up being called) is working on LG-style immersive worlds, but LG was a different company, and honestly I think it would be a little insulting to those ex-LG employees that don't work at ISA to assume the "Looking Glass" name.
Re:Rumors from FatBabies (Score:3)
Why? To carry on the tradition of excellence and compelling gameplay fostered by Daikatana, which everyone now associates with Ion Storm?
If I were him, I'd want to get as far away from that name as possible.
Re:OT: What're the " is Romero's bitch" lines? (Score:2)
The ad came out in 1997, three years before Daikatana came out.
Suffice it to say that after incessant delays and a game that was at best lackluster, this became an irony point.
Schnapple
Re:If this means... (Score:2)
(From experience) In a programmer led team, you strip ruthlesslely until you've got a fun game, even if comes down to "Left. Right. Fire." and looks like a C64 retro blaster. Then you add all the whizzo-3D, neat gimmicks and storyline that the designers and artists are churning out.
However, if you're a producer or designer or artist led team, you keep adding more and more cool ground breaking concepts and gimmicks and 5000 polygon models to fix it, until you end up with, er, Daikatana. ;)
Re:gaming industry is a BIG risk (Score:2)
And in the real world, the remaining guy is left in charge of a dead name, and the majority of games buyers won't know the difference, they'll just know that Ion Storm created Daikatana. Meanwhile, the teflon coated cocksucker slips off to start up another lame ass pit of fear and loathing, with a shiny new name and more experience - "Hey, finance me again, I know how not to create a game now, plus I have a Ferrari, so I must have something going for me!".
Ok, somebody has to (Score:5)
Actually... (Score:5)