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msolnik writes:
"The U.S. version of Playstation 2 Linux is getting ready to hit the streets. Here is an review of the first public beta. It really looks sweet and comes with a lot of nice hardware. I can't wait for it to start selling -- finally I will have a legit reason to buy a PS2."
Next computer. (Score:2, Interesting)
Ain't Linux great?
--Knots
USB? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:USB? (Score:2, Informative)
domc
Re:USB? (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not actually sure you can daisy chain USB right out of the box like that. Maybe with some extra software.
On the other hand, you can plug as many boxes in with Firewire if you get a hub. Gran Tourismo 3 actually allows you to link up 6 PS2s (the most number of cars on the road in the game) via Firewire/iLink if you get a hub.
But yeh, people are probably just going to use the Ethernet that comes with the Linux kit
Re:USB? (Score:4, Informative)
I have seen devices that have two device ports and proxy traffic between them to create a USB network, but they're much slower and more expensive than just daisy-chaining with 1394 cables.
There is an extension in the works for USB 2.0 that will allow multiple hosts to network over USB, but by the time it is delivered I suspect 1394 will be pretty entrenched.
Re:USB? (Score:2)
Re:USB? (Score:2)
You have to buy the whole kit anyway, no use in not using everything you have to pay for.
Re:USB? (Score:2)
Wow, that sucks. I assume thats if you're trying to network, not for applications like A/V, right?
And don't forget that Ethernet has a lot of overhead too, especialy on large networks.
Re:USB? (Score:2)
I think you are incorrect; check out some actual numbers [unibrain.com] for 1394 networking.
Re:Next computer. (Score:2)
the funny thing is that where most less powerful machines struggle with grapical environments these should be fine.
regular comparisons wouldn't really apply.
benchmarks would be fascinating.
it won't outperform a new Athlon
but it will cost 1/10th
so price / performance will be sweet!
Review contents - site /.'ed (Score:5, Interesting)
The kit consists of:
DVD-ROM containing a Linux Release specifically designed by Sony to boot the PS2
40 GByte Hard Drive
10Base-T/100 Base-TX Ethernet Interface
USB Keyboard
USB Mouse
VGA AV Connector
PS2 Linux Kit
The DVD that contains linux will ship with many packages you've grown up with linux like:
Linux Kernel
XFree86 (which means practically every single GUI application you can run from a desktop linux machine)
gcc
glibc
XFree86 on PS2
Here are a couple more images of linux running a ps2. On your left is Xscreensaver (not sure which one) and on your right is "gv" running inside WindowMaker.
I didn't list the versions of these packages because simply put, nobody but sony knows what they will decide on at release time. But expect the packages to be up-to-date. Below is the output of dmesg from the Linux Kit running off a japanese version of the playstation 2. How cool is that..
---- begin snippet from
Loading R5900 MMU routines.
CPU revision is: 00002e14
Primary instruction cache 16kb, linesize 64 bytes
Primary data cache 8kb, linesize 64 bytes
Branch Prediction : on
Double Issue : on
Linux version 2.2.1 (master@linux) (gcc version 2.95.2 19991024 (release)) #94 Thu Apr 19 12:13:01 JST 2001
no initrd found
Console: colour dummy device 80x25
Calibrating delay loop... 392.40 BogoMIPS
Estimated CPU clock: 294.240 MHz
Memory: 30724k/32760k available (1216k kernel code, 752k data)
Checking for 'wait' instruction... unavailable.
POSIX conformance testing by UNIFIX
PlayStation 2 SIF BIOS: 0200
Linux NET4.0 for Linux 2.2
Based upon Swansea University Computer Society NET3.039
NET4: Unix domain sockets 1.0 for Linux NET4.0.
NET4: Linux TCP/IP 1.0 for NET4.0
IP Protocols: ICMP, UDP, TCP, IGMP
Linux IP multicast router 0.06 plus PIM-SM
Starting kswapd v 1.5
PlayStation 2 device support: GIF, VIF, GS, VU, IPU, SPR
Graphics Synthesizer revision: 00005508
Console: switching to colour PlayStation 2 Graphics Synthesizer 80x28
pty: 256 Unix98 ptys configured
Real Time Clock Driver v1.09
rtc: Digital UNIX epoch (1952) detected
usb.c: registered new driver usbdevfs
usb.c: registered new driver hub
usb.c: registered new driver usb_mouse
usb.c: registered new driver keyboard
usb-ohci.c: USB OHCI at membase 0x1f801600, IRQ 42
usb-ohci.c: GrowLocalMem 64K bytes
usb.c: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 1
hub.c: USB hub found
hub.c: 2 ports detected
RAM disk driver initialized: 1 RAM disks of 10240K size
loop: registered device at major 7
PlayStation 2 IDE DMA driver
hda: ST340823A, ATA DISK drive
ide0 at 0xb4000040-0xb4000047,0xb400005c on irq 41
hda: ST340823A, 38166MB w/1024kB Cache, CHS=4865/255/63, (U)DMA
LVM version 0.8i by Heinz Mauelshagen (02/10/1999)
lvm -- Driver successfully initialized
scsi : 0 hosts.
scsi : detected total.
Partition check:
hda: hda1 hda2
VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) readonly.
Freeing unused kernel memory: 48k freed
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 2
hub.c: USB hub found
hub.c: 2 ports detected
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 3
keybdev.c: Adding keyboard: input0
input0: USB HIDBP keyboard
usb.c: USB new device connect, assigned device number 4
input1: USB HIDBP mouse
PlayStation 2 Sound driver
Adding Swap: 136516k swap-space (priority -1)
eth0: MAC address 00:04:1f:ff:fa:bc
eth0: Auto-negotiation complete. 100Mbps Full duplex mode.
PlayStation 2 SMAP(Ethernet) device driver is loaded.
---- end snippet from
Now with all this one has to think of what you can't do with a ps2 running linux. Well a couple things actually. Don't expect you can pop in any of your self-made CD's into it. This isn't an OSI issue as much as it is a hardware-level one. The Playstation2's CD-ROM drive is unable to read normal data CD-ROMs. Special Playstation2-CDs can be created so that PCs can read them, but not vice versa, simliar to the GD-ROMs for the Dreamcast that can't be created on a CD-R.
Another common question is how will Linux boot on the Playstation2? All the software in the world, regardless if it's runnable object code or source code with the most advanced compiler, is worthless if it can't be loaded into memory on the target machine and made to execute on the CPU. The perfect Linux system for the Playstation2 wouldn't make any sense at all, if it couldn't be booted.
The boot process is one of the crown jewels of copy-protection in the game console business. Since only the console manufacturer knows how to manufacture bootable media, and probably is the only one with the manufacturing technology, game creators must license the technology. The console manufacturer earns from the royalties for this licensing, not thesale of the hardware. Actually it's very common that the console manufacturer is losing money each and every time one of their consoles is sold. This is how the traditional game business works. Don't expect Sony to give away the secret of how the Playstation2 boot.
Linux will likely not boot directly off a self-made CD-ROM, nor from the optional harddrive unit, since no technical details about the port are currently known except a couple rumors, I'm going to speculate here and list some of the possibilities:
depend on the boot loader (like LILO or grub) stored on a memory card, similar to the DVD player driver updates they distributed early on
require a CD/DVD-ROM sold by Sony as an "authentication" mechanism
require some special hardware so it could be booted from an external source (think of disk-less machines with root over NFS)
only boot from the "official" CD that Sony sells. eg. Custom kernels unsupported. (The freedom to compile a custom kernel and freely boot it is very important. I honestly hope that Sony makes a decision which would be acceptable by the community as well as not risk their business model)
In anycase, any "boot loader" would most likely be proprietary closed-source. We just have to accept this. The BIOS of any common PC that boots the operating system is proprietary, too.
In short, I bought a Sony Playstation 2 unit with no intention of running any OS off it. I purchased it simply because its the coolest console video game unit I've ever seen and the game developement for it will be long-standing. The fact it also acts as a DVD player was a plus for sure. But when they tossed up the idea of throwing Linux on it, obviously because Microsoft's Xbox is going to bridge the gap between PC/console, I see endless possibilities now. Keep in mind this linux kit isn't a 'developers-only' package. This is going to be the interface that every ps2 user who wants to get online or treat his ps2 like a PC, will be using. Alot of wincentric folks are going to see linux for the first time, in all its glory and I wouldn't be suprised if some people will forever associate linux as "that video game OS." Any attention is better than none
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed (Score:2)
Anyway, the link is: http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/fun.games/10/24/linux .ps2.idg/
Take this in remembrance of me.
--
Evan "the sleep deprived"
Re:Clickable link *sigh* (Score:2)
Ironically, that's why I *didn't* href the link. I was worried it would break in the tag, which is a pita. You're giving HTML tips to a guy who religiously plants italics and spacing tags throughout his replies... I knew *how*... I chose *not* to. But thanks for the effort, anyway (although when providing helpful tips, a "*sigh*" in the subject is a bit less than polite).
--
Evan "yet a little more sleep deprived"
Re:Clickable link *sigh* (Score:2)
Re:Clickable link *sigh* (Score:2)
And really... this entire thread is over three extra clicks of the mouse. Highlight the URL, click the X next to the Location bar, middle click in the empty field, and hit the Go button. Is that so hard (TMMV due to browser and OS)? I doubt I've broken many wrists... and by now, the site is probably not slashdotted anymore, so the original link works.
Really, fellas - I'm all for pedantic arguments, but this is spiraling into lunacy.
--
Evan
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed (Score:5, Insightful)
The boot process is one of the crown jewels of copy-protection in the game console business. Since only the console manufacturer knows how to manufacture bootable media, and probably is the only one with the manufacturing technology, game creators must license the technology. The console manufacturer earns from the royalties for this licensing, not thesale of the hardware. Actually it's very common that the console manufacturer is losing money each and every time one of their consoles is sold. This is how the traditional game business works. Don't expect Sony to give away the secret of how the Playstation2 boot.
Those who don't know their video game legal history are doomed to make stupid comments about it, it seems. In the US, its legal to reverse engineer booting protocols for game consoles, even up to, and including the point, of the console displaying "Licensed Playstation Game", or anything to that effect, as long as it isn't shown that there is a way to make a bootable cartredge/CD that doesn't display that message. I believe the case that determined this was one of the Nintendo-era consoles, the SMS or Genesis, maybe (been a long time since I looked at the cases).
Reverse engineering a console can save a company millions of dollars in licensing fees. There have been several notable legal battles that have determined how far a company can go to make compatible games.
A CD doesn't hide its data well. Even assuming encryption on most of the CD, its probably a relatively simple task to tell where the PS2 is reading from the CD at boot. Moreso, for the information on the CD to be useful, it has to be decrypted somewhere in the PS2 itself. Its very crackable.
Just my (educated) $.02
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed (Score:2, Interesting)
Quick note: Genesis was Sega, and the first case in question that I know of was either the NES or SNES, in which EA decided that they had enough of the crap from Nintendo, and released their own games... and were promptly sued. They won, eventually.
That was before the DMCA.
Don't bet on the same legal protections you had in the past, unfortunately. This isn't random bitching about the DMCA, this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that the DMCA targets. It'd be nice if Nintendo took EA (a classic reverse-engineering shop) or someone to court over it, via the DMCA, and the reverse engineering shop won, but I wouldn't place money on that battle these days.
As for believing that all boot processes can be faked, that's just not true for the end user. You often must modify the hardware in order to boot your own creations. The end user, for example, to this day STILL can't burn CD-ROM's that are immediately bootable on UNMODIFIED Playstations (used as an example because of the age of the platform). Sure, if you've got the right high-end specific hardware, you can do it. The vast general populace can't, and that includes the vast majority of developers.
As for the decryption crack, all it needs to do is a physical verification of a non-writable portion of the disk before boot, and *poof* you cannot make CD's without very high end equipment. It's not an encryption issue, it's an access-control issue. Most Playstation CD's aren't even encrypted, the data is raw on the disk. (Playing just the Final Fantasy cut scene movies on my PC is fun!) The disk, however, has physical protection that prevents you playing a copy of it, UNLESS you've modified your Playstation to not need that physical protection.
You won't be able to burn a CD or DVD in a consumer burner that will boot on a PS2, unless you've modified your PS2. To the best of my knowledge, the PS2 mods currently available are all still 'unstable', or only allow you to be in one mode (Japanese, American) at a time. That may have changed.
In summary, be careful what comments you call 'stupid'. The boot process IS the crown jewel, the protection enforced IS valuable to the companies, and Sony will NOT give it away. Even if they did, I would still wager that you and I couldn't build media that would boot. Last but not least, legal protections offered in the past may not still be in place, due to the DMCA explicitly outlawing them.
-- Cyberfox!
Re:Review contents - site /.'ed (Score:2, Informative)
This is really cool (Score:5, Interesting)
On a more on topic note, I wonder what kind of benefits this would provide to the people with mod chips in their PS2s. Could it possibly put the knowledge about how the PS2 works out in the public domain? And if so, did Sony think about this?
Oh the possibilities... Check out Flight Gear (http://www.flightgear.org) and wonder if that could be made to favorably run on a PS2/Linux machine. GNU PS2 games... Mmmm. And foremost, could this allow for developers to make PS2/Linux a better gaming platform than XBox/WinXB[sic]?
Re:This is really cool (Score:2)
Re:This is really cool (Score:2)
Re:This is really cool (Score:2, Informative)
DirectX is a collection of APIs. One of them, Direct3D, can more or less be done in hardware; At least for nvidia cards, most direct3d drivers only have to map D3D functions to identical functions in hardware on the card, which helped put nvidia's TNT card at the head of the Direct3D performance line, and continues through the GeForce line. In fact, it seems that nVidia is leading the direct3d featureset, and not the other way around.
Pictures (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyone also notice how smart of a move this is for R&D at Sony? They just sit back, sell units, and wait for someone to code/port the perfect office suit/browser/etc that fully integrates the PS2 into the home office, and then they sell more units! I'd say this puts them at least a step ahead of Microsoft.
Re:Pictures (Score:2, Funny)
Only in the beginning (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, Sony can charge whatever they want for their Linux kit. If they loose $150 on every PS2 sold, and sell the kit for $200, they'll make 50 for every PS2+linux kit sold (not counting the cost of the Linux kit, witch with the 40gig HD might not be that cheap)
And Sony's strategy certainly isn't to sell few PS2s, they want to sell a lot. What they want is to have a high ratio of games to systems.
Mozilla's Classic theme looks like 4.7 (Score:3, Informative)
One of the pictures shows Netscape being run on the PS2. It looks to be 4.7x
If your computer contains a Netscape Communicator 4.x profile when you install Mozilla, Mozilla defaults to the Classic theme, which looks like Netscape Communicator 4.7.
Last time I checked netscape was closed source.
Mozilla is free software licensed under the Mozilla Public License and the GNU { |Lesser} General Public License. Netscape 6.x is mostly MPL/LGPL free software with some minor proprietary things linked in (AIM client, spell checker, etc) but the Mozilla team is working on replacing those.
Re:Mozilla's Classic theme looks like 4.7 (Score:2)
So indeed, it is quite puzzling.
Re:netscape in picture? (Score:2)
Re:Pictures (Score:2)
I am not in the industry, nor do I have concrete sources available, so if I'm wrong, prove it and I'll apologise
Consoles sell at a loss when new. Over time, efficiencies of scale and market prices for components bring the price per unit below the selling point. You don't honestly think PSones still cost Sony $300 to make do you?
With 20 million PS2s in the world and what, three plants cranking them out, I'd be surprised if Sony wasn't pocketing at least 25 bucks off each system - maybe $50.
GTRacer
- mmmmmm...Linux....
One question... why? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why would I want a Linux PS2? When playing games on the PS2, I just put a CD/DVD in, boot up, and play. Why should the average Joe Customer care what OS it's running?
I can certainly see how it'd be cool as a hacking plaything to mess around with. I wouldn't mind getting a Linux PS2 just for that very reason. But beyond that, I don't see much point... either for myself, or for the average Joe Customer.
I'd really appreciate it if anyone could enlighten me on this point?
Re:One question... why? (Score:5, Informative)
To me this is gonna be cool.
Re:One question... why Interesting? (Score:2)
I'm going to buy and set Linux on my PS2 because I'm lazy and have a bad memory?
Its not the comment that upset about, its the fact that someone thought that it was Interesting. Thats really reaching.
Re:One question... why? (Score:4, Insightful)
No use recreating the wheel. It's not just cool, it's somewhat practical for them.
J
Re:One question... why? (Score:2)
The PS2 contains a proprietary multitasking OS.
Re:One question... why? (Score:2)
There are a lot of people who would buy this just for playing around. There are a lot of people who enjoy computing for it's own sake, the people who make companies like Abit profitable.
Re:One question... why? (Score:2)
However, I for one am intrigued with the idea of a low-cost ps2 game development platform. At the very least, you can write SDL games for it [slashdot.org]. Admittedly a lot of my interest is simply curiosity -- Dreamcast Linux is even more impractical but I'm still going to install it.. just to say I did.
Re:One question... why? (Score:5, Funny)
Price of a PS2 Linux Kit: $200
Not having to get up from the TV to get porn off the net: Priceless
Re:One question... why? (Score:2)
my linux box needs replacing in the next 6 months (it's ancient and has mobo issues, i learnt a lot building it but it's had it)
so for me this deal will kick arse compared to buying new.
if I want games i can use the ps2 natively.
and for web / mail / ICQ / a bit of writing the linux kit will be more than adequate.
and save me a chunk of cash too.
I bet you there are a LOT of families out there with ps2's who'll leap at this if it's explained properly.
digital divide and all that.
it'll make a cheap and adequate computing platform.
be interesting to see how well it supports printers and scanners.
Re:One question... why? (Score:2)
So how would you *load* linux on an Xbox? (Score:2)
PS2 has to compete with the XBox (x86, _should_ not be hard to "port" linux to)
How are you going to even load Linux on an Xbox console? Xbox (not the more expensive XDK) uses a proprietary bootloader that checks for a digitally signed kernel.
Re:So how would you *load* linux on an Xbox? (Score:2)
Sony produces PS/2 Linux.
Sony digitally signs PS/2 Linux kernel for bootloader.
Problem solved.
MS controls the private key (Score:2)
Copy the signature byte for byte and put it where the bootloader looks for it?
Signature. Not magic cookie. Copying magic cookies (e.g. "Licensed by Sega" code) is legal under Sega v. Accolade, but Xbox's BIOS probably verifies the digital signature against the actual game data using asymmetric crypto where Microsoft holds the private key, and then stores the software decryption keys in the lead-in (like DVD-Video CSS) and probably makes some other major violations of the DVD-ROM standard. How are you going to burn the DVD again?
You mean besides.... (Score:5, Informative)
You mean besides,
All [ebgames.com]
the [ebgames.com]
really [ebgames.com]
really [ebgames.com]
great [ebgames.com]
games [ebgames.com]
? [ebgames.com]
And many more... You just can't beat the PS2 right now simply because it has so many amazing games available for it. Sorry it's offtopic, but it's true.
Re:You mean besides.... (Score:2)
The English-language version of Shenmue 2 for Dreamcast is available, right now, for European PAL systems. American DCs can play it with the Utopia or DC-X bootloaders, or modchips.
Otherwise, the general point of what you're saying is true. Right now, "cross-platform" means, "will be available for Playstation 2 and at least one other system." I don't know of anything cross-platform that's worth mentioning that will be released for both 'Cube and xbox, but not PS2.
OTOH, there are few non-Squaresoft PS2 exclusives that make me really want a PS2. For the kind of games I enjoy playing, in its current state, the PS2 is a glorified PSOne that can also play PS2 games and DVDs and run Linux. When more quality RPGs and 2-D fighters surface on the system, and improved hardware becomes bundled as standard, this platform will be much more attractive. Otherwise, the PSOne is the RPG king, while the combo of Japanese Sega Saturn, SNK NeoGeo, and Sega Dreamcast rule supreme for 2-D fighters (now I just gotta get a JAMMA board system, and I'm all set).
< tofuhead >
Crippled or no? (Score:5, Insightful)
And what about access to the PS2's internal hardware? Are we going to be able to program games/demos/etc. How much codeability are we going to be able to get out of the thing?
Oh, and that fire wire port makes me wonder. Sony has been pushing the video editing market with their Vaio PCs, and the PS2 does have a fire wire jack. Are we going to be able to edit video? Or would Sony not want to cut into it's PC sales by giving the machine to much power
This thing has the potential to be like the Amiga/C64/etc of our generation. A cheap TV computer that's fully programmable, hack able, whatever. Except with fire wire DVD support and all sorts of other modern goodies. The only thing holding it back really is how much Sony is willing to allow it to possibly cut into their profits.
I would assume the preview mentions these things, but it seems to be slashdotted...
Re:Crippled or no? (Score:2)
Is that enough to run Gnome or KDE?
And is anybody going to buy a PS2 to run in console mode?
Re:Crippled or no? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Crippled or no? (Score:2)
That's some proprietary RDRAM with throughput in the neighborhood of 3Gb, behind a 300Mhz, 128-bit processor, IIRC. Prolly smoke your Ghz Athlon.
Re:Crippled or no? (Score:3, Informative)
OTOH, my previous PC ran Blackbox tolerably with 28 MB, so maybe...
Re:Crippled or no? (Score:2)
Re:Crippled or no? (Score:2)
Re:Xbox? (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, that's the reason it won't be. I mean, there were demo communities around the Dreamcast and N64(using a hacked Hong Kong IDE bridge (Z64), a very sweet device and twice as expensive as the game system. It was intended to be used to pirate games).
The thing is, they never really got 'big' because the companies didn't support them. You had to do all kinds of weird things, or pay out the ass, to the system to get it to work. And most importantly you needed a separate PC to code on.
Sure, someone might get Linux on the Xbox, but it wouldn't be much different then what happened with the DC. Not very big.
With support from Sony, there's a chance for something really interesting to come out of all of this.
what's in it for Sony? (Score:2)
anything that weakens MS is now in Sony's interest (as long as it doesn't weaken Sony more)
widespread acceptance of linux on the desktop would be just fine for Sony
this is could shoe-horn linux in underneath Windows in a lot of homes.
Re:Crippled or no? (Score:2)
it's MADE to do pictures and graphics.
Networking? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Networking? (Score:2, Informative)
You don't HAVE to use the Sony adapter, there are other ones that will work as well.
Re:Networking? (Score:2)
Dreamcast! (Score:5, Informative)
Don't miss the point here. Run to "Toys R us", and scoop up the Dreamcast (read the manufacture date through the hole in the back to make sure it was made before Sept. 2000). Go to fivemouse.com and grab the image. Burn it with DiscJuggler, and start playing with embedded Linux tonight!
-Spackler
post nov 20000 anti-piracy Dreamcast workaround (Score:5, Informative)
The bioses in US dreamcasts manufactured after November 2000 will not boot audio/data multi-session cds. This was done because major piracy groups (Echelon mainly) were using this as their primary self-booting game format. The workaround is to convert the audio/data cd to a data/data cd.
Re:Dreamcast! (Score:2, Informative)
Wow (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd say this is a fairly likely scenario, actually. Once the price comes down enough, Sony would be smart to start bundling PS2's with harddrives - and so it really wouldn't be a big stretch to throw in the keyboard/mouse combo as well. And if they do that, consumers are going to expect additional functionality. Why pay extra for a harddrive when all it does is store saved games? In comes Linux. By that point, there will already be a browser, a word processor, and a useable GUI developed especially for the PS2. Thus the sub-$300 gaming AND browsing PC becomes a reality - and it runs Linux.
That'll probably be optional... (Score:2)
Problem is, those things won't add much cash to the pocket. So they will have to be paid for up front. I expect that whole module to be an extra cost add-on (add-in?). And wouldn't be surprised if it used proprietary hardware connections.
Under this scenario one would have the basic Playstation, and its add-on. Then one would have the hard-disk/e-mail system, and it's add ons. The basic hard-disk system would have a Linux Kernel, X Window, a browser, and not much else. Then there would be the development kit that one could add on to that. This might be priced cheaply, if Sony could count on selling any software created (or on giving it away as a valued-added extra). Otherwise it would need to cover its own cost, and then a bit more.
Mirror (Score:2, Informative)
Sorry, didnt get a chance to mirror the full size screen shots.
Legit reason? (Score:2, Interesting)
Will we still be able to rent ps2 games? (Score:5, Funny)
Sony has released its distribution of the GNU/Linux OS for PlayStation 2 in the USA.
17 USC 109 [cornell.edu](b)(1)(A) prohibits rental of computer software in the United States. Section 109(b)(1)(B), on the other hand, makes an exception for software designed to run on video game consoles. But does the release of PS2 Linux make the PS2 into a "computer" under the law, and thus ineligible for software rental without explicit contracts between each video game publisher and each rental shop?
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games? (Score:2)
Software rental (Score:2)
Then how is the new Orifice XP license legal? Or .NET?
Because you sign a contract with Microsoft (or click your signature onto an on-screen EULA, but legal experts currently dispute enforceability of such schemes). It's illegal for the purchaser to rent copies of computer software not designed for a game console, but it's perfectly OK for the copyprivilege owner to do so, which is why I mentioned that Sony could potentially make contracts with video store owners. However, this opens up another can of worms relating to potential discriminatory policies about rental licensing; these issues already pop up in Japan, where consumers' first sale rights are much weaker.
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games? (Score:5, Interesting)
Way to think outside of the box tho
Re:Will we still be able to rent ps2 games? (Score:2)
I think the easiest way to differentiate the two is who's granting the temporary use. My guess is that the law is an anti-piracy thing. As such, it would be rather difficult to claim that Microsoft was violating Microsoft's copyright. Instead, I think the law's intended to prevent someone like Blockbuster from renting out Microsoft software.
Quake 3 on Linux? (Score:2, Interesting)
Since the retail Quake 3 for PlayStation 2 sucked bad would it be an outraegous idea to think that maybe Quake 3 for Linux could be run on the PlayStation 2 making everything in the Quake 3 world all happy happy again?
Finally? (Score:2, Insightful)
*DING DING!* (Score:3, Interesting)
This is the exact reason the XBOX was conceived and released - to counter all of those CPU cycles being "wasted" in game consoles on a non-Wintel platform. I'd bet Microsoft has been terrified for many years that every kid who has a game console actually has a computer, and someone somewhere would make the consoles behave like real computers. XBOX is supposed to beat them to the punch.
It's classic Microsoft strategy.
if { Game_Console == Computer and Game_Console == Pervasive_penetration_into_homes and Game Console != Requires_Windows}
then
{ Game_Console == Threat_to_Monopoly_Windows_Position};
else
{Threat_to_Monopoly_Windows_Position==0};
End if;
do
{ Attack_Compeditors_base_market (undercut_price, add_proprietary_tech);
Delflect_Competition_from_Windows(FUD_FUD_FUD, De-comodotize);
}
until {Threat_to_Monopoly_Windows_Position==0};
The PS/2 is no C64 - and Microsoft knows it. This has been brewing for some time - you could tell Microsoft felt threatened by all those game consoles that didn't need them (Except Sega, IIRC, and we know what happened to them). So, Microsoft attacked Sony's bread and butter with the XBOX. This is the shot Sony is firing back. This is going to be fun to watch. Heh - I know whose side I'm on - the consumers.
BTW - those of you with Sony VAIOs running Windows should keep tabs on your machine's stability for a while *grin*.
This is no beta. We've been tricked! (Score:5, Informative)
The X11 screen shot on that site is exactly the same as on the Japan site [ps2linux.com]. Furthermore the kit showing is also right off the Japaneese site. [ps2linux.com] Check out this dmesg [ps2linux.com] on the site. Look familiar?!?. Ya I though so.
From my understanding the US version will have an internal harddrive/network card to fit in that big hole in the back of the PS2. Now I am a little dissapointed. This casts no forshadow to release of the US version and we still have to wait. Why this even made Slashdot I am not sure, but dont be fooled with this trickery.
Re:This is no beta. We've been tricked! (Score:3, Informative)
That article is dated October 24th, 2001, so the question is whether that pre- or postdates the disclaimer on the PS2 Linux Kit website [ps2linux.com] stating that
I for one hope this if for real, because for me, like for timothy, this would be the straw that breaks the camel's back and convinces me to purchase a PS2.
PS2 name change... (Score:2, Funny)
OpenGL? (Score:3, Insightful)
However, we need to be realistic about this. None of those things are possible until/unless there is a good hardware-accellerated OpenGL port for the beast.
As far as I can tell, there isn't such a thing in existance - and whilst we can certainly port Mesa onto it, we won't get hardware accelleration and it'll run S-L-O-W.
Even with a good OpenGL port, you still wouldn't see stellar performance because the PS-2's 3D processor isn't optimised for running OpenGL - it takes a lot of wierd programming tricks to get speed out of the PS-2 and without free access to the hardware details, there is little or no chance of getting good 3D games running on it.
Of course, all of this changes if Sony announce an OpenGL implementation or release the hardware details - but I'm not holding my breath.
Um, take another look at dmesg (Score:5, Informative)
Yup, just the hard drive! No access to the closed hardware in the CD/DVD player. No CD/MP3/DVD/VCD/Divx;) players for us until some outsiders reverse engineer things and distribute a loadable module.
Bummer. I'd have bought one in an instant as a play everything console.
Anybody know if it has one or two PC Card slots? It needs one for the HDD/ethernet but since ethenet to my TV would be a bitch I'd prefer to slam a Orinoco into it.
Potential of Linux (Score:2, Interesting)
Why doesn't anyone ship a cd that boots linux,X11 4.01, and then runs their 3D game? If a game developer did this would they not be able to run it on Mac,PC(3D accel required), PS2(special ver.), XBOX(sure that's next if not already), Toaster Oven, etc. Seems like if a game developer really wanted to hit the entire market, they could use BSD or Linux pretty easily... I don't know how the GPL plays with shipping a binary linux kernel with a commercial product, but BSD license is all peachy. Even GPL, can you not just ship the source code on the same CD for everything but your game. (Linux distro's do this, so I don't see why game developers can't.) I don't see what I'm missing. Seems to me a larger market base for games + more games for linux is a win-win situation for the Linux community and the game publishers. Is the compiler for those processors just not optimized? Is there no OpenGL X11 support for the video of the PS2? Is Sony intentionally not wanting to compete with computers? Any fine game developers/legal experts/people generally smarter than me want to point out the flaw in my thinking? (Assuming it's flawed because someone else would have already jumped the idea if it was feasible. Then again, it could be at least a new goal for linux. I know a lot of gamers that would enjoy the power of linux. I know linux wasn't developed for realtime processes, but 2.4 is decent. I'm sure a game dev would tweak the scheduler.)
I will wait till more information is available (Score:2, Insightful)
Also if the kernel is on the boot CD, I just cant eject that CD and put in a MP3/DivX/DVD disk in it either.... meaning I'm going to have to pull any content that I want from those types of media from another source on my network. Granted... there is a certain amount of geekish pride in rigging it this way, but its definitely not conveinent. Who (outside of slashdot readers) has ethernet strung to thier entertainment centers?
- J Rob
Re:I will wait till more information is available (Score:2)
Kernel probably gets loaded into memory anyways, so you could eject the boot media and pop something else in.
What really excites me about this though is the concept of doing an NFS mount back to my PC in my home office and playing back my music collection through my stereo (which is hooked up to the PS2 via an optical cable). Now that's what I call slick.
Why not just buy a laptop? (Score:2)
If you want a portible computer a laptop is far more powerful, plays games just as well if not better, and best yet, Linux was DESIGNED for it unlike the mutilated PS2 Linux.
I think this is a waste of time, just like the Dreamcast linux, If developers want to do something useful, Improve linux for the computer, work on the kernel, work on KDE, Gnome, do something which matters to everyone and not something which matters to a few thousand people LITERALLY.
Glad you found a legit reason (Score:2)
This does raise an interesting possibility... (Score:2)
Remember, this is a 32MB machine (Score:2)
Why do people Dis the Xbox for being a "pc" and .. (Score:2)
Now that the PS2 runs linux in the states, people are praising the console for becoming an affordable "pc".
If this was linux coming out on the xbox then people would say you can buy a more powerfull pc for the price of the xbox + keyboard + mouse when in all reality by the time you add a hard drive, floppy drive, keyboard, mouse, and monitor to your PS2 you have WELL EXCEEDED the cost of a XP 1900 system with tripple resources.
I don't get it. Do you want a console or another PC or is it only Anti Microsoft that the Xbox is a doomed "pc" and the PS2 is a great "pc"?
Hell, i got linux running on my Dreamcast, which is fine and dandy, but not going to replace my pc. More of a hack and a way to produce my own software and run it on the DC.
So yeah, its cool linux runs on another box, but this ranting and raving about how great a ps2 will be as a "pc" is about as pointless as making my Xbox a PC. They're not designed for that and for christs sake, for once the neither the Xbox or PS2 is standards compliant and both are proprietary systems so why the big fuss from such an anti-proprietary crowd and pro standard group?
Oh well, somethings i will never understand
It's RISC (Score:2, Informative)
What I'm wondering, is why hasn't Sony released the source code to their modified Linux kernel? Linux is definatly GPL, XFree86 is GPL, at least a lot of the code, and plenty more apps. Isn't porting considered big enough a change that it requires a source release?
Where do you buy the Linux kit for the PS2? (Score:2)
how major? (Score:2)
Why Linux on PS2... (Score:2, Interesting)
Granted I'll admit to not having spent a lot of time dealing with Linux. I like it. I like what I've seen, but I'm far from a die hard fan/user. That may change. In any case...
The Case for Linux on the PS2:
One of the issues that seems to bother Linux is a lack of driver support. This is coupled by the myriad of nearly infite hardware combinations that are presented by the nature of PC comptable machines. Who know what hardware will be in which machine. Therefore, gobs of drivers must be available to make the product work effectively. The bonus of the PS2 is that the hardware is a given. A very focused distribution of Linux can be built and bundled with the console. It can be garrunteed to run properly because you have the same hardware in umpteen million units out there. Compatibility becomes a mostly non-issue. This is not the case with my experience with Linux in the PC compatible hardware realm.
So here is a solid base of a large number of known pieces of hardware that a very stable and secure distribution of Linux can be put on. Once that happens, software (in many forms, business apps, games, etc...) becomes that much easier to produce in a workable, stable, coherent form.
Now add into the mix Sony's partnership with AOL. As much as I hate AOL, think of the rammifications. An AOL Linux distro...run on every PS2 out there. Set top web access. Not to mention mozilla or what have you if you choose not to use the Sony/AOL service.
The Linux/PS2 bundle becomes a rather inexpensive, stable, useful internet/gaming/entertainment/home productivity device.
I'm sure I left out some of the original articles ideas, and I've added some of my own. Perhaps someone can point out the source I can't rememeber. Point being, though, the Linux/PS2 combo, if played right by Sony, could be major.
'nuff said.
No. (Score:5, Informative)
The PS2 has been out a lot longer, Had a Linux based development kit, has had a Linux port out in Japan for a while now, oh, and it isn't controlled by a corporation that considers Linux the "number 1 threat".
Sony has been on the Linux bandwagon with the PS2 for a while. Remember they ported this themselves, it's not a hack.
Heh, true (Score:2)
PS2 Linux, OTOH, is going to be major. Supported by the company that makes the hardware (and maybe even a marketing campaign if we're lucky), it could end up being major. And in a lot of peoples hands that wouldn't normally go around hacking their videogame hardware.
Linux on Xbox ain't gonna happen without HW mods (Score:2, Informative)
Of course it's only a matter of time before some clever people do port Linux to XBox.
Ain't gonna happen. Microsoft controls the BIOS, and the Xbox will run only signed, encrypted code. See my previous comment [slashdot.org]. Of course, you could theoretically throw in a mod-chip, but Microsoft would use its vast re$ources to sue any mod-chip maker out of existence.
Re:What about linking non-free sources? (Score:2)
If the code is released under the GPL, -or- if it doesn't make intimate use of GPL'd software, then it is not in violation.
No (Score:2)
Well, Sony is only required to give the source to people who they give/sell the software to. Not everyone in the world. Since this is only in beta, and a few people have it, its a non-issue. When the system goes into wide release, though, it would be a different matter. Presumably Sony would send a CD along with the unit containing any modified source (same as with products like the Tivo)
Re:I wonder if Sony... (Score:2)
Re:duel cpu's... (Score:2)
Re:Retail Price and Goodies (Score:2)
Re:DivX Movies? (Score:2)
Re:DVD player (Score:2)
Re:Remember the Mod chip? (Score:2)