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Games Entertainment

SquareSoft to Develop for Nintendo Again 328

Posted by michael from the final-countdown dept.
magicsquid writes: "GameSpot is carrying the news that Square has finally returned to Nintendo systems after a 5 year absence. This brings with it the knowledge that Final Fantasy XI will truly be playable on every console as well as PC to be uniquely massively multi-player." Planet Gamecube has a similar story.
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SquareSoft to Develop for Nintendo Again More

SquareSoft to Develop for Nintendo Again

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  • Neither company has affirmed the port status of FFXI. It's almost a sure thing, but it's *not* confirmed.

  • Cool. Finally, decent RPGs... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by binarytoaster ( 174681 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:00PM (#3133247)
    Though some might say that Square is just turning out regurgitated crapola with the FF series (we won't mention Chrono Cross, PLEASE no...) it'll be a welcome change from PSO as the only MMORPG on a console.

    Also, this does open up the ability for Square to bring in the old FF games... and.. mm, ChronoTrigger for GBA anyone? *drool*

    Really, the argument between GCN and Xbox owners just got a little more one-sided with this announcement...

  • Thank God. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Karma Sink ( 229208 )
    Squaresoft/Nintendo was one of the biggest juggernauts of my childhood, and I'm very happy to see them in the same bed again. The two work together perfectly, and it just seems to flow wonderfully.

    Not to disparage FF VII-X, but there was always something missing, on a PlayStation...
    • There would have been much more missing had Squaresoft stayed with Nintendo, namely content beyond a T (13+) rating, and also a game any bigger than would fit on a cartridge. Now that Nintendo has finally gone to a CD based system, Squaresoft is back on board. I look forward to kicking some Gamecube ass from my PS2.
  • and its a widely recognized fact in the console gaming business.

    they need to get huge sales on FF from both the GameCube and the X-BOX to get em back in black type.

    Shoul be interesting, i would gues Sony would really prefer that the FF series wasn't ported to Nintendo and Microsoft, but it will happen

  • ORGASM!!! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:03PM (#3133262) Homepage Journal
    WTF took them so long. Yeah screw karma I gots 50. Now my GameCube 0wnz all j00 who spent 100$ extra on a PS2 for nothing. No matter what you say.
    • Now my GameCube 0wnz all j00 who spent 100$ extra on a PS2 for nothing. No matter what you say.

      Excuse me, what was that you said? I couldn't hear you since I have my Grand Theft Auto 3, Metal Gear Solid 2, and my non vaporware Final Fantasy X games stuck in my ears.

      If they don't release a single new game for PS2, I still feel I got my money's worth out of those three games..

      • I understand SSX, SSX:Tricky, FFX, and GT3 also plug the earholes quite nicely. I bought the PS2 for SSX alone, and that by itself was worth the money I spent.
        • SSX:Tricky is on the Gamecube, and I also believe the Xbox as well.

          And if anyone else wants to get in on the game comparisons, I have one game:

          Super Smash Bros Melee
          • True, true. When my buddy's PS2 broke, he was having trouble deciding what to replace it with. While we were debating the issue, we saw a commercial for the Cube that showed SSX:Tricky. I almost had him convinced to cross over for that and SSBM, but in the end he couldn't give up GTAIII and GTIII.

            As soon as I can figure out how to explain the presence of a second console to my girlfriend, I'll be stocking a Cube for sure, though.

    • Re:ORGASM!!! (Score:3, Funny)

      by mcelli ( 518034 )
      Now my GameCube 0wnz all j00 who spent 100$ extra on a PS2 for nothing. No matter what you say.

      Again slashdot is a podium for developed critical argument about the pros and cons of different platforms. Also notice the advanced discourse used by this critic. Truly a rational and developed mind.

      Next time you "ORGASM!!!" please leave the jiz in some toilet paper and not on slashdot for me to read.

      M

  • Complete Surprise (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:04PM (#3133264)
    For those that don't know the backhistory, Square left Nintendo when the N64 went from a CD-based system to a cartridge-based. This was after Square had pledged their support, which was bad enough. Worse still, Square then went to other developers such as Enix(Dragon Warrior games), and convinced them to switch to the PSX as well.

    The feud has finally ended, and it's a complete surprise. Hiroshi Yamauchi, president of Nintendo, is not the type to give in. No one's saying he did, but this announcement at least shows the guy can put business sense ahead of personal feelings. That's a revelation most in the industry would have strongly denied before today.
    • For those that don't know the backhistory, Square left Nintendo when the N64 went from a CD-based system to a cartridge-based.

      Not quite - although Nintendo had some prorotype CD-based consoles, these were never confirmed, and I don't think devkits were ever shipped to thirdparty developers.

      The real issue was in Nintedo going for a cartdridge-based format where only Nintendo could manufacture the cartridges, with Nintendo taking a large cut of profits. It also meant that games were to be priced much higher than rival systems. Square started development of FFVII for the N64, but it was cancelled after Nintendo refused to cut a better deal for Square re cartridge manufacture.

  • I purchased a Gamecube for my girlfriend this past Valentine's Day. The console has been out since before Christmas, and so far, the title selection is to say the least, poor.

    There's in the neighborhood of 10 titles for the GC, and while some of them are gems (Super Smash Bros.), over all, they are relatively lackluster. Sega has developed for them, but not even they can provide a must-have title.

    Enter SquareSoft. Any platform they touch these days will probably experience Square's huge following buying power. I think a lot of Nintendo's decline is a result of losing SquareSoft's contributions.

    So maybe this will give Nintendo a huge boost. Why is that important? Aside from the argument of "yea, we need more competition," Nintendo is truly an "honorable player" in this market. They may have relatively shitty licensing tactics (everyone does), but over all, Nintendo demands an extremely high level of quality for their software. The titles, regardless of fun factor, are always extremely well polished. You don't always get that on all the other platforms.

    Maybe Square will be able to give us die-hard Nintendo fans something to be truly proud of our platform for.
    • Uh. Super Monkey Ball rocks. And there are more than ten titles [planetgamecube.com], though not that many great ones.

      I'm happy with my gamecube purchase (I own seven games) and I suspect that the best is yet to come.

    • > The titles, regardless of fun factor, are always extremely well polished.

      Not all of them... Did anyone ever play superman on the n64? [epinions.com]
      • Also, avoid Sonic Adventure 2 Battle for the GC like the plague. It might have been a good game, if I could see my self fucking move around. The camera problems are that bad.

        Super Monkey Ball, also by Sega, rocked, so I was expecting similar quality...

        At the least, rent it first if you feel like buying it.

        • Sonic Adventure 2 on Dreamcast was great... except for the fact that you spend 2/3 of the game playing as boring stupid characters other than Sonic. ARRGH! What were they thinking?

          The camera wasn't perfect, but I didn't think it was really any worse than any other 3D platformer. I didn't have a major gripe about it.
    • I think a lot of Nintendo's decline is a result of losing SquareSoft's contributions.

      I can agree and disagree with that. The way I see it though is that Atari once had supreme control over the console market (waaayyy back in the day). Then Nintendo and Sega came out with their original consoles. Nintendo beat out Sega and since then Nintendo has been the giant in the console industry. They beat out the Genisis, the Jaguar and a bunch of others I cannot remember. Hell, they even beat out the GameGear (sega) which was TONS better (in my opinion) than the GameBoy ever thought about being.

      All that started to change right around the time that Sony released the PS-One. The tides are turning again and I think that Nintendo is about to take Atari's place in the "wow, i remember the days when.." department.

      It all tends to happen to companies when they get too comfortable at the top. This is probably the only reason why MS hasn't fallen yet... they've never been comfortable. They typically don't ignore the little guys. They just crush them. :-) hehehe

      Linux rules! :-P
  • The GameCube doesn't have online capability (at present). That sort of kills FFXI. I don't believe Nintendo has committed to providing a modem/NIC as of yet.
    • My mistake. They have promised a modem add-on and a NIC add-on. History has shown that peripherals don't succeed in general, although if FFXI is potentially the "killer app" that could move them. The problem exists for the PS2, of course.

      • They have promised a modem add-on and a NIC add-on.

        They have also "promised" a CD-ROM drive for Super NES (which eventually became the PSone) and a Zip-like drive for N64 (the 64DD, which never hit U.S. shores). The general rule for U.S. Nintendo console accessories: If it plugs into the expansion port on the bottom of the system, it'll be delayed, delayed, delayed, until it's cancelled.

      • Re:Online with what exactly? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by DarkZero ( 516460 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @08:40PM (#3133571)
        Sony has announced their PS2 modem, complete with specs, price, games, and other non-vaporous things. It will be available in AUGUST. Nintendo has announced their GameCube modem, but has yet to say anything about its specs, how it will work, what games will support it, or how much it will cost. Nintendo also has a history for announcing hardware, even giving it specific details, and then cancelling it.

        They've committed to making the modem and NIC add-ons, but that means that we'll see it, at minimum, in six months or more. It's also likely that we may never see it, which would match Nintendo's track record perfectly.

        Your first post was actually more accurate than the second. Unless "Umm... we're working on it" (the classic Nintendo blow-off phrase) somehow means that they're deeply committed to making these add-ons. ;)
        • Please mod my parent post down. Way down. The people replying to it have successfully pulled GameCube broadband and dialup modems of their ass, and at a pretty damn reliable source (Nintendo.com). It leaves me wondering, though, why EGM, Extended Play, and various major gaming sites still keep repeating the old line of "Nintendo has yet to solidify its online plans" if these things have already been announced by Nintendo.

          Jesus. You'd think that between reading EGM monthly, watching Extended Play weekly, and reading The Magic Box, Mad Man's Cafe, The GIA, d+pad, MegaTokyo, Lik Sang, and much more obscure sites every single day, I would've seen this thing by now. My apologies for adding to the bullshit in this round of comments.
          • Holy Shit.

            Who are you, dude? You've just done something I've never seen before. You apologized for making a mistake on Slashdot. Most people don't have the balls to do that.

            I'm impressed.

            I thought I'd seen it all.
        • "Sony has announced their PS2 modem, complete with specs, price, games, and other non-vaporous things. It will be available in AUGUST"

          3.5 years after Dreamcasts came standard with modems. Sony's had no reason not to release them earlier than now. Lots of great DC games had online features which made them so much more fun to play, but we won't see those same features (especially the number of games supporting it) on other consoles for another couple of years still.

          Thanks a lot, Sony.
        • "Nintendo has announced their GameCube modem, but has yet to say anything about its specs,"

          A 56k modem that plugs into one of the ports on the bottom, just like in the pictures on Nintendo's website. I believe the modem will have a black housing while the Ethernet adapter will have a white housing.

          "what games will support it,"

          Phantasy Star Online ver. 2 at the very least.

          "Nintendo also has a history for announcing hardware, even giving it specific details, and then cancelling it."

          In the US perhaps. The only thing I can think of that Nintendo talked about that didn't come about is the SNES CD drive (which mutated into the PlayStation and CD-I). Even the 64DD eventually came out.

          "They've committed to making the modem and NIC add-ons, but that means that we'll see it, at minimum, in six months or more."

          You're forgetting that Nintendo has a habit of keeping hush-hush about their projects until about three seconds before it launches. Look at how soon after we all first heard the phrase "GameCube" that it hit store shelves.

          "Unless "Umm... we're working on it" (the classic Nintendo blow-off phrase) somehow means that they're deeply committed to making these add-ons. ;)"

          Nintendo is so good at keeping a secret that folks like IGN accuse their PR people of using Jedi mind tricks. Their silence on the matter is no reason to believe Nintendo won't release this hardware in the very near future. If anything, the fact that they won't say a flat-out "no" means that it's on the way.

          Nintendo's history with communication hardware for their systems goes back almost as far as Sega. The SNES had a satellite modem. The N64 had a 56k modem. Game Boy Color has a cell adapter. Why shouldn't we believe that we won't see a communications device for the GCN any time soon, especially since they were announced at the same time as the GameCube?

          We've seen pictures of the hardware. We know of several games that will use the hardware. Just because Nintendo tends not to talk about future activities is no reason to believe they won't bring out the hardware in question. By your logic Nintendo has no intention of releasing any new games for the GameCube, since we've seen no release dates for the new Mario, Zelda, or Metroid games.
  • I stopped playing FF after they stopped making it for Nintendo consoles. I hated the PSO, I have a PS2 and GCN. I didn't play FFX for PS2. A friend got it and he said it's pretty much the same stuff. Nothing special. (Well, except for the graphics of course) Maybe now that they're developing for Nintendo again, they'll put a little more effort into the gameplay/storyline? I'd take FFIII on SNES over FFX on PS2 anyday! :)

  • Great news for Nintendo... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Karma Sink ( 229208 ) <oakianus@fuckmicrosoft.com> on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:09PM (#3133273) Homepage
    Personally, I've found that the FF series is probably the only reason I would plunk down cash for a PS2. Now that I'll be able to play Mario, Zelda, and FF on the same system again, the Gamecube is the only way I would possibly go.

    The one move that would make this perfect, IMO, would be if they would go back and bring the rest of the Final Fantasy series over to the ... then it would be gaming nirvana.

  • A sudden change of heart, it seems. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ryu2 ( 89645 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:11PM (#3133281) Homepage Journal
    Wasn't it Yamauchi himself who said not so long ago, that essentially, after Square left Nintendo for Sony, that Square would be allowed to develop for Nintendo platforms again, over his dead body?

    • Re:A sudden change of heart, it seems. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by vitaflo ( 20507 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:54PM (#3133437) Homepage
      Wasn't it Yamauchi himself who said not so long ago, that essentially, after Square left Nintendo for Sony, that Square would be allowed to develop for Nintendo platforms again, over his dead body?

      I'm assuming that since Yamauchi is retiring in a few months [planetgamecube.com], that perhaps this is his way of making peace (and leaving a legacy) before his departure.

  • If a game for GameCUBE is being developed by SQUAREsoft, naturally it needs LINE in the title, and the main character's name needs to be DOT. :)
  • Soon, my friends
    All reasons for getting a GBA will be gone

    The return of classical, SNES-era, 2d RPGs is upon us.

    Rejoice

  • This has been an interesting drama... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:15PM (#3133300) Homepage Journal
    Square basically stabbed Nintendo in the back, telling game makers not to develop for the N64. It is my understanding this is why Enix didn't release an N64 RPG. Square publically apologized for this last year, for exactly that reason.

    It's because of this, Yamamuchi's attitude was basically "We don't need Square. They need us. They lost money on the FF movie, and developing only for the Playstation won't make enough money to make up for that.".. or something along those lines. He didn't feel that Nintendo needed Square to be big, but Square needed Nintendo in order to get back in the black.

    I have to admit, I'm surprised Yamamuchi is putting money into Square for this project. The only thing I can think of is that Square has something up their sleeve to make the Game Cube and the Game Boy Advance pair together. Square is an ambitious enough company that I wouldn't be surprised at all if they came up with an FF game for both GB and GC that can be played seperately, but when put together it brings a lot more.

    Imagine if the GameCube version was the full plot, battles, etc, but the GBA version was for training your characters and improving their skills. Or maybe something even more sophisticated like the GBA version is a stripped down version of the game. Like you play it on the Game Cube, then you stop and save your progress to the GBA version, then you can continue the adventure on the road.

    Man... if they did that, that'd be killer.

    • This isn't exactly accurate either (Score:4, Interesting)

      by oGMo ( 379 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:48PM (#3133421)
      Square basically stabbed Nintendo in the back, telling game makers not to develop for the N64.

      Nintendo has done more than their share of backstabbing too, and they've caused most of their own problems. First they backstabbed Sony with the N64 CDROM deal. They backstabbed Square by refusing to move from the outmoded cartridge game format, keeping Square from being able to create Final Fantasy VII. (They started in this direction, see the Final Fantasy SGI demo [rpgamer.com]. In the end, Square said they could have done FF7 for the N64, it just would have cost $7k for the cartridge.)

      Thus the rise and domination of Sony. It's interesting to note that every platform Square has seriously developed for has been the dominant platform: NES, GameBoy, SNES, PlayStation, PS2.

      I have to admit, I'm surprised Yamamuchi is putting money into Square for this project.

      Nintendo can say what they want, but after the fiasco that was the N64, and the pressure from Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo needs Square a lot more than they'll let on. Excluding Square is not really an option. They need third-party games; first-party games just aren't enough (as the N64 showed).

      That said, I don't mean to imply I'm upset in any manner at this news. This is great! I've wanted to see Square and Nintendo get back together for awhile... I want to see Square stuff on my GBA, and getting a GCN I'd love to get Square games on that.

      Plus, as history has shown (see: Dreamcast), Square leads the majority of buyers, and this is probably a nail in the coffin of the XBOX. ;-)

      • It's only a nial in the coffin of XBOX if Square doesn't whore itself out to all interested parties.

      • Re:This isn't exactly accurate either (Score:5, Informative)

        by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @09:50PM (#3133728) Homepage Journal
        "First they backstabbed Sony with the N64 CDROM deal."

        Do you mean the Super Nintendo CD? If so... then this isn't exactly true. What happened there was that Sony wanted an all in one unit that played Super NES and the new CD-Based games where they could slap their name on the unit, call it 'PlayStation', and get royalties for every game made. Here's a website that tells part of the story: http://www.emulationzone.org/consoles/snes/cdrom.h tm ... but the whole story is in an early issue of Next Generation magazine.

        "They backstabbed Square by refusing to move from the outmoded cartridge game format, keeping Square from being able to create Final Fantasy VII."

        Nintendo didn't backstab Square by going with cartridge format. Nintendo made a very wise choice that cartridge was the way to go with the N64. There were several advantages to it:

        - Fast Load times.

        - The system would be a lot cheaper (like $100 cheaper).

        - The system would be far more reliable, ie. fewer moving parts. The original shipment of Playstations were horribly made and had a 1:4 defect rate where I worked.

        - Game companies would be more inclined to make an original game for the N64 instead of diluting it with ports of PC games that used CD ROM. (Remember the 'Dream Team'?)

        - Very hard to duplicate compared to CD's

        - Nintendo could get more money per cartridge because CD's were cheap to make.

        - Good games can be made to fit on cartridges. N64 proved that.

        N64 royalties were high. I'm not disputing that. That wouldn't have hurt Square though, I remember people paying as much as $80 for FFIII (including myself). What really happened was that Square decided they wanted to do Full Motion video along with the game, they wanted to try something unique. The N64 wasn't what they wanted, so they moved to Playstation. That was a smart business decision to make, particularly since Sony gave them a deal they couldn't refuse. Where Square backstabbed Nintendo was when they told other developers not to develop for it. That was just wrong. Square may not have been able to do FFVII for the N64, but they could still have made games for it. They have a lot of franchises. Instead they just flipped Nintendo off and went into Sony's court.

        "Thus the rise and domination of Sony. It's interesting to note that every platform Square has seriously developed for has been the dominant platform: NES, GameBoy, SNES, PlayStation, PS2."

        Sony may have beaten Nintendo, but not by much. N64 did very well for itself. Nintendo also has provided a lot more to the game industry that Sony has. Nintendo has a game audience that Sony should be extremely envious of.

        The N64 was not a fiasco of any sort. Nintendo was quite profitable with it. It has a lot of high quality titles for it. And, must amusingly, the first party work done for it carried most of the weight for it. Even if Sony sells a billion Playstations, Nintendo still has a loyal audience to play their games. Sega had that too, to a lesser degree. Sony does not. Sony and Microsoft could win the war in a particular generation of games, but they always risk getting ousted by a new guy. Nintendo can be very successful even when they aren't #1. I much prefer Nintendo's position than the other guys.
        • I almost agree with you on the N64 issue, except that you are completly ignoring the fact that Nintendo may have had the number 2or 3 home gaming system, but they had the number one portable gameing system to make up for taht fact. The gameboy (and pokemon ) was a huge portion of their income during the time that the N64 was out. That's how they were able to so easily make the N64 what it was, they didn't need it to be a huge success because the GB was.
        • At the beginning of the N64's life, it was the console that was getting frickin insanely high bids on eBay, much as PS2 did some years later. So it wasn't doomed to fail from the get-go.

          What turned it around, I'm certain, was Final Fantasy. That was a milestone in gaming for the PlayStation, and for a while, the definitive PlayStation game.
        • You do understand you just described the situation of the typical Mac user, right?

          Limited games (software) but what you have is good.

          Intense customer loyalty.

          Knowing the other side has more software, but that's because the other side has a metric pantload of crappy titles.

          Cooler hardware. ;)

          Anything I'm leaving out?
          • I think you bring up a really good point. There are some differences that I started to point out.. but to tell you the truth, now that I've absorbed your idea a bit, the details don't really matter. I think you're right. Seems like the party that works the hardest to fill people's needs ends up losing. Do you ever wonder why this is?

            Part of me thinks is that some people have mixed up ideas about what's really important. I think the PS1 emphasized more than anything that quantity of titles was more important than quality. The only reason this bothers me is that it's exactly that situation that caused the video game crash back in the Atari days. I was really scared for a while that Sony'd ruin the market.

            What saddens me is that in most cases, this is the wrong approach. Mac suffers a similar problem today. My original and unenlightened opinion of Mac is that it didn't have enough software support. But when I think about it now, Mac does everything I need! Out of the box I can go around and web surf, instant message, etc. I use my GameCube and Dreamcast for games, don't need my PC/Mac to do that. Mac also has Lightwave, Photoshop, After Effects, and probably even more tools that I use for my artwork. That's all I need to decide to buy a Mac. And you know what? I think it was a similar decision that caused me to buy an N64. Mario, Star Fox, Blast Dozer, and a few other titles were what I really wanted to play.

            Thanks for writing that response, it gave me an interesting perspective to consider. :)
      • I don't know if I would necessarily call this a nail in the Xbox's coffin, after all, no one has said or implied that it will be exclusively for the GameCube, and in fact the very post was so bold as to say that Final Fantasy XI would be playable on every console as well as the PC. It seems to me that the Xbox fits somewhere into that categorization.

        Rather than putting a nail in Xbox's coffin, this is probably closer to taking one or two out of the GameCube's. After all, for a MMORPG to span all consoles+PC, the consoles need access to the internet, and as it stands that is only available to the Xbox, which may actually help the Xbox as much as the release of FFXI itself will help the GameCube.
      • Plus, as history has shown (see: Dreamcast), Square leads the majority of buyers, and this is probably a nail in the coffin of the XBOX. ;-)

        Considering how well the XBox is doing in the states, the XBox coffin hasn't even been built. Yes, I realize you were kidding, but let's be real.

        Everyone I know who has all three consoles will openly admit the PS/2 is their least favorit of the three, and every single one of those people will tell you the best game on it is Grand Theft Auto 3. How does Square fit into this equation?

        Square hasn't impressed me much since the Secret of Mana.
      • Nintendo can say what they want, but after the fiasco that was the N64, and the pressure from Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo needs Square a lot more than they'll let on. Excluding Square is not really an option. They need third-party games; first-party games just aren't enough (as the N64 showed).

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You wish dude. For about 10 years now Nintendo has had the most popular game system in the world, the gameboy. And not to mention the fact they own the most recognisable game characters in history (with the exception of sonic of course); Link, Samus, Pikachu, and those goddamned plumbers - Nintendo doesn't need square.
      • Not every platform Square has developed for has become the dominant. Square did develop for the Wonderswan and Wonderswan Color in Japan. While it did reach a 30% marketshare, it still didn't compare to the GB's (who had basically the rest). This of course, happened after Square severed the relationship with Nintendo.
      • "Nintendo can say what they want, but after the fiasco that was the N64, and the pressure from Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo needs Square a lot more than they'll let on."

        Um... hello? Did you pay any attention to the last half-decade at all?

        If anything, the "N64 fiasco" you refer to has shown that Nintendo DOESN'T need Squaresoft. While it may not be very enjoyable or as profitable as it could be, Nintendo has shown that they are quite capable of surviving on nearly no third party support at all. This is something that not even Sega has been able to pull off. I seem to recall the N64 outselling the PlayStation in the US. And how much more money did Ocarina of Time make than FF VII again?

        Nintendo doesn't need Square. Square doesn't need Nintendo. Both could make a killing with a new relationship (think "Final Fantasy on Game Boy Advance"), but there is no need anywhere between the two. About the only people that have a real need here is Sony. With third-party game developers being so platform agnostic, this current console battle will be won by first- and second-party games. Nintendo is the world's best game developer hands down. Microsoft has made a few notable successes in the field of games. Sony, on the other hand...

        If anything, Sqaresoft was a prosthetic first-party development house for the PSX, trying to release games in non-RPG genres on top of their usual fare. Square pretended they could be another Nintendo, Sega, or even Capcom (with games like Chocobo Racing and Brave Fencer Musashi) instead of the one-trick pony they generally tend to be. What Sony will do without exclusive Square games is hard to see.

        "They need third-party games; first-party games just aren't enough (as the N64 showed)."

        No, that's what the Dreamcast showed. The N64 showed that that rule doesn't apply when you have Mario, Zelda and Pokemon.

        "Square leads the majority of buyers"

        Only in Japan. It's only in recent years that Square has become mainstream outside of Japan, and I think that FF games being available on the PC has much to do with that.

        IMO, if there are going to be any nails driven into coffins in the near future it will be when Metroid Prime hits the shelf. Especially because nobody seems to realize this.
    • This comes up every now and then, and it is amazing that more people really don't know what happened.

      This feud started with The Secret of Mana [angelfire.com]. Square, Nintendo, and Sony were teaming up to release the Secret of Mana as the killer app for the SNES CD. Sony then decided that they wanted to also release their own "playstation," which would play SNES CD's, and their own proprietary format. History can be found here [emulationzone.org]. The contract did not forbid this, but forbid Nintendo from breaking out of the agreement. So, Nintendo started working with Phillips on another CD rom [gamespot.com] (compatible with the also doomed CDI), and announced that it would be the dominant CD format for the SNES. (See SCEE's Official Version [absolute-playstation.com]. Also visible on www.scee.com, if you have IE and a patience with slow scrolling scripting. More history here [thepong.com].)

      The history of that feud is probably only truly understood by lawyers, but it is clear that Square took a major hit in terms of profit when Nintendo abandoned the platform that Square had just geared up to [geocities.com] and had developed their largest game to date for. I don't know who bore the brunt of costs for translating SOM to the SNES, but I'm sure it wasn't a happy meeting.

      Let's also not forget that Nintendo decided not to release FF2 in the US thinking that it would be unprofitable, and made this decision after A: it had been translated and B: they had run an 8-page spread in Nintendo Power (check your backissues folks! There was a contest and everything.).

      From there, Square naturally decided to follow the evolution of the SNES CD the Playstation, and break ties with the company that they had established an intimate relationship with. Ugliness followed.

      That ugliness can be found elsewhere, I'm not here to tell you how it ends. I'm only here to show you the beginning.

    • I bought my GBA a few months ago to have something to do on the train commuting when I'm on a brain dead day. The link-up capacity really intrigued me.

      My friend got Sonic 2 for the GCN, and I got Sonic Advanced for the GBA (both games kick ass, BTW, and I have Sonic 2 as well now).

      I figured, I really want to see the link-capability, and what's $100 for that... :) ($50 - Sonic 2, $10 - link cable, $40 - Sonic Advanced)...

      It's really cool. Both games feature fun Sonic action (the GCN game is a decent transition of Sonic from 2D->3D, though not as good as Mario 64 was, and Sonic Advanced is fresh Sonic fun).

      However, you can move Chao, the creatures from the minigame, between the systems. It sounds really dumb, but it works nicely. You get to play the game as normal, but as an added bonus you can to convert your accomplishments into little animals that you can compete with.

      I really feel that RPGs will see the greatest benefit from the link-up, with Pokemon being an obvious example. You can train your Pokemon in your hand-held RPG, then compete with your friends on the TV instead of on the hand-helds.

      In a more "adult" setting, I'd really like to see an "American" RPG (more character driven, not collections of cut-scenes). I mean, supposedly Camelot is releasing a Golden Sun game on the GCN that will let you bring your Golden Sun character into it, and other games could do it too.

      I love Sonic, but part of the reason that the Sonic games dominate my gaming time is the link-up. I can play Sonic at home or on the road, it's Sonic everywhere.

      In Final Fantasy... wow!

      Alex
  • It's not likely that Final Fantasy XI will be on the gamecube - ever. The gamecube has no support for network play, and Final Fantasy XI is an online game.

    It's more likely that Squaresoft will bring an old Final Fantasy to Nintendo, like Final Fantasy X. Or maybe a special Final Fantasy like Final Fantasy Disney. Anyone see Square's Disney RPG at last years E3?
    Joseph Elwell.
    • It's not likely that Final Fantasy XI will be on the gamecube - ever. The gamecube has no support for network play, and Final Fantasy XI is an online game.


      Check your facts, bud. Nintendo has both a modem and broadband adapter in the works, similair to Sony's own addons for the PS2.
      • Meanwhile, that other console, the Xbox, with built-in broadband, hard drive, and superior graphics, and so ideally suited for FF series, gets no announcement. Square is really hurting for money, but I always understood that they did not support other consoles due to Sony part-ownership and pressure. The fact that they're willing to now release for GameCube appears to be _negative_ news for the GC console to me, as it means that Sony downgraded the threat that GC can cause to it, while Xbox's still remains high.
        • Xbox, with built-in broadband, hard drive, and superior graphics, and so ideally suited for FF series, gets no announcement.

          The Xbox lauch in Japan taked severly. The Xbox in Japan is a dead platform from the start, and Square isen't about to release somthing thay won't see the light of day in it's home market.

        • "Meanwhile, that other console, the Xbox, with built-in broadband, hard drive, and superior graphics, and so ideally suited for FF series, gets no announcement"

          Just to clarify, though the XBOX has broadband capability, it doesn't have a network. Nintendo could package a broadband adapter with a game if they really wanted to get it launched, and FF would be the best way to do it.

          The graphics aren't that superior. They sound like they are on paper, but niether machine has decidedly proven that yet. Remember its artists that make graphics, not processors. I think Square could make a brilliant game on either machine.

          I do agree with you, though, that the hard drive is exactly the type of feature that Square could make amazing use of. I don't see it happening though. If they are going to be the 'launch on all platforms' company, Final Fantasy won't be the game to do much with the HD. I think they could make either an exclusive FF game or a brand new game to use it, though...
          • Well, considering Microsoft is actually launching their online service this summer, and every single one of their consoles will be able to use it without the need for peripherals, I would say that they are the closest in terms of having their own network. So, the customer base for any company that releases that first truly great network game for a console (arguably PSO may have already done this) includes every Xbox owner, not just those willing to buy additional products and the game all just to play a single game.
    • Er, um, considering that there are plans for broadband and modem connections for the Gamecube (check those upgrade slots in the bottom), I think it's just as likely for a Gamecube Final Fantasy XI as a PS2 (since, unless you use a USB ethernet adapter, you haven't seen the PS2 broadband adapter yet either).
      • Not really. Sony has already [gamespot.com] announced [gamespot.com] their online strategy. Nintendo still refuses to answer questions about it. It's not like all they have to do is make the modem. They've done that. They have to give people someplace to connect to. As we've seen with a lot of the online PC games over the past two years, this isn't as easy as it sounds. If Nintendo hasn't even mentioned it yet, it's a long way off. We probably won't see the official FF line on the GC until at least 12. I guess it's possible they could surprise everyone at E3, but I'm guessing not. But what do I know?

        Another reason XI probably won't come to the GC is the lack of hard drive. From what I hear, the PS2 version will require the hard drive add on for one reason or another. Probably because Sony sees it as a good way to get people to buy the thing.

  • Success of MMORPGs (Score:4, Informative)

    by skroz ( 7870 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:19PM (#3133318) Homepage
    Now that will be truly impressive. The MMORPG has really caught on, and really has suffered no limitations. Combine that with the incredible success fo the FF series, which has led to some people purchasing game systems solely for that game, and you have something unbelievable. Combine THAT with the top four gaming platforms and you have a virtually guaranteed cash cow. If they can pull this off with the quality of an EQ or DAoC, Square will be able to afford another bomb, er... movie.

    (Invidentally, I really enjoyed the FF movie. It's just too bad that nobody else did.)
    • "has suffered no limitations."

      I can think of one big limitation that kept me playing Final Fantasy games when all my friends were playing EQ: no story. Sure, there's a fully fleshed-out universe and some minor little quests you can go on, but you simply can't get the "we few out to save/conquer the world" feeling when "we few" numbers around half a million.

      "Combine that with the incredible success fo the FF series,"

      A success that relies almost exclusively on drama and character development, something you just can't get in an MMORPG...

      If this were Dragon Quest/Warrior we were talking about, then I'd believe it'd be a major success. But there is no one Final Fantasy universe, no one underlying myth, and any two Final Fantasy games only have some vague themes in common at best. The only thing I can think of that's been more or less a constant in all the games has been the spells. Even the Dragon Quest/Warrior games have more in common with each other than that. I can't see this as anything but Square shooting themselves in the foot.

  • Gameboy Advance (Score:2, Insightful)

    by colmore ( 56499 )
    If Chrono Trigger, FF2 and FF3 (oh sorry I meant FF4 and FF6) were to come out on the Gameboy advance, I would be forced to purchase one.

  • Hmm (Score:3, Interesting)

    by weird mehgny ( 549321 ) on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:22PM (#3133327)

    There was definitely secret money involved when Squaresoft abandoned Nintendo for Sony and the PS.

    The official argument was that their games would not fit on cartridges, so they chose a CD-based console. But why did they choose the PlayStation? Why not Sega's Saturn? At that time, every other newcomer console had failed, why would Sony's be any different? Sega was quite well established in the console business at the time, Sony was not, everything indicated that Saturn would make a success.

    I do smell conspiracy...

    • Re:Hmm (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Tofuhead ( 40727 )

      Sega Saturn was a difficult development platform, cost more than the PSX, and featured sub-par 3-D graphics and FMV capabilities relative to the Playstation. For example, whereas the PSX version of Lunar Silver Star Story Complete was able to take advantage of the PSX's built-in MJPEG decoder, the Saturn received two versions: one version that had cropped, low-resolution FMV, and one version that required the Saturn VCD playback card for its hardware MPEG decoder in order to play the FMV in full-screen at high-res. By the time development of FF7 had begun, similar facts would have been common knowledge to developers, easily making Square's decision for them.

      Beyond the Saturn's limitations, there is also the fact that Square tends to ally themselves with the biggest partner that will have them. Even taking Nintendo into consideration, they don't come any bigger than Sony.

      However, the Saturn had other strengths, and I by far prefer it over the PSX for 2-D games, particularly fighters and shooters.

      < tofuhead >

  • Final Fantasy Unlimited (Score:3, Informative)

    by 90XDoubleSide ( 522791 ) <ninetyxdoublesideNO@SPAMhailmail.net> on Friday March 08, 2002 @07:34PM (#3133368)
    In IGN’s coverage [ign.com], they speculate that the new game will be Final Fantasy Unlimited, based on the anime. NOA’s VP also hinted that the title will include GBA connectivity.

    While it is possible that Nintendo would have the Gamecube modem and broadband adapter ready in time for a MMORPG Final Fantasy Game, this seems far more likely as just the other day Miyamoto was talking [ign.com] was talking about the problems with online console gaming. Personally, I would rather have a great, offline RPG that can compete with the goodness of FF4-6 than something I have that requires me to shell out a lot more money for hardware (hence the $199 GCN in the first place :)

    • The broadband adapter and Modem adapter ARE ready. They just aren't RELEASED yet.

      And if you think they weren't holding on to them just for this ... you're mistaken. Sega would have loved Nintendo to release them so they could get PSO out the door.
      • Having a broadband adapter is a lot easier than having a broadband service available. Nintendo hasn't even announced this yet, so it won't be out for a while. It's much more likely that the GC will get some kind of FF spinoff (such as the aforementioned anime). That's still cool though, because it looks like some talented people will be working on this. Also, since it's not a part of the main FF line, they''ll have a little freedom to make some changes on the format, so maybe it won't be so much like the last four games. In any case, I'm almost as excited about this as I am about Metroid.
  • I'm still waiting for a PC port of FFIX. I doubt that it will ever be made, though.
  • I personally would like to see a Secret of Mana sequel on Gamecube.

    FF is a great series but secret of mana sure is fun too. Especially if they beefed up the mutliplayer support some more.

    I've got a translated rom of SOM2 for an SNES emulator and it's great fun. I can't believe they never released it here. I guess they didn't have the time or resources to put into it.
  • I've been a dedicated Nintendo fan for a long time, after becoming hooked on their Square games - like Chrono Trigger and FF VI (III here in the US). When Square stopped developing for Nintendo, I was deeply saddened, and I've been waiting a long time for this moment.

    But will this really be such a good thing? The N64 had almost no RPGs, and the Gamecube, while it seems to have some, doesn't have as many as it should. Even if Square starts developing for Nintendo, does this mean the GC will see more RPGs (the GBA, on the other hand, has plenty of good RPGs)? As well, maybe this is just my opinion, but the recent Square games have not been nearly as good as the older ones. Chrono Cross was far worse than Trigger, and the newer FFs seem to be more about graphics than storyline and good old fun, like the old ones. If Square does start making games for Nintendo, will they really be such good quality?
  • It'll be interesting to see what they release on GBA. Most of the FF games have already been rereleased on PSX this past year. I couldn't imagine them rereleasing any earlier than FFIV. Chronotrigger on GBA would be kick ass though too.

  • How ironic (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Guppy06 ( 410832 )
    It's interesting to see how Final Fantasy got started on Nintendo systems and will ultimately make a return appearance on a Nintendo system in its death knell.

    I honestly can't see how Final Fantasy can survive FF XI. While other RPGs focus on nifty game play mecahnics (Chrono series) or an immersive universe (Dragon Quest/Warrior, Phantasy Star), Final Fantasy games really have only one thing to rely on: story. The games are so story-driven that you might as well be playing on rails. People sure as hell didn't play VIII for the unending GF sequences. They didn't play VII for the stale JPG backgrounds. They sure as hell aren't still playing because they love the random battle engine left over from the 8-bit days. People play Final Fantasy for the characters, story, and in recent years the cut-scenes.

    So what in God's name makes them think they can translate any of this into an on-line game in any meaningful way? If half a million people are on the same quest of epic proportions, it ain't exactly epic any more. They can't make the entire game world on rails so there goes the concept of cut scenes. They can't just use the universe the game series is set in because there is next to nothing in common between any two Final Fantasy games.

    I think Final Fantasy XI will end up being known as Square's version of Episode I.
  • I just want to get this off my chest now so I can get a big "I told you so!" out a year from now.

    Final Fantasy XI is going to be a flop.

    Different RPGs rely on different things for their success. Phantasy Star has the Algol system. Mother/EarthBound has its aesthetics. Dragon Quest/Warrior has the whole medieval feel.

    Final Fantasy relies on story and character development, focusing on group dynamics and such as the small party of heroes goes to save the world from some great cataclysm.

    That cannot be translated to an MMORPG. MMORPGs rely entirely on the players for character development, and their very nature requires a lot of little quests for all the players to try out instead of one big quest that Final Fantasy is known for.

    The things that make an MMORPG a success (namely the universe) doesn't really exist in the Final Fantasy series. There is no game universe, there are ten game universes to date. There are no common characters between the games, each game introduces new characters. There are few if any monsters common to all the games. The only real constants in the games are chocobos, moogles, spells, and some guy named Cid (who may or may not be a party member, depending on the game).

    Final Fantasy XI will be a flop because it will be a Final Fantasy game in name only. There will be some nifty new mechanic for character development (the shiney new job/esper/materia/GF/whatever system), familar spells, chocobos, moogles, and... not much more.

    About the only way I could see this working is if they take the universes of all the ten previous games and somehow connect them. Have a student from Balamb Garden explore Baron. A character born and raised in Coneria seeing the sights of Midgar. But even that would be a big departure from the previous games because they were never meant to be connected.

    So don't say I didn't warn you.
  • You know, Phantasy Star Online ver. 2 will also be available on all three consoles...

    As far as I'm concerned, FF XI is a red herring. What I'm dying to know is if FFI, FFII, and FFIII will be ported over to the GBA so I'll have a snowball's chance in hell of seeing those remakes.

    And speaking of remakes, I seem to recall Square tossing about the idea of next-gen remakes of VII, VIII and IX. What's up with that? Can I play FFVII with a real soundtrack instead of MIDIs?

    And while the PSX releases of VI, V and VI were OK, they really didn't add much more to the Super Famicom versions. How about giving those games a 32-bit make-over like what was done to I, II and III for the WonderSwan Color? After all, the GBA is God's gift to 2-D...

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